From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #105 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, February 21 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 105 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Carly albums (njc) [catman ] Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Catching up.....(NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] No More Special Editions ["Kakki" ] Sad Songs in Memory of Wally [Chilihead2@aol.com] Re: No More Special Editions [Deb Messling ] Re: No More Special Editions [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: No More Special Editions [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: No More Special Editions [Catherine Turley ] Re: What's a good Carly Simon to buy? NJC [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: No More Special Editions [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) ["Kakki" ] Re: No More Special Editions ["Kakki" ] Re: BSN review in yesterday's Daily Mail Newspaper ["Matthew Hall" ] Re: No More Special Editions [IVPAUL42@aol.com] BSN: Washington Post, 2/20/2000 [Janet Hess ] RE: BSN NY Times Review (NJC) ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) [Randy Remote ] Re: BSN NY Times Review (NJC) [catman ] Re: BSN [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: What's a good Carly Simon to buy? NJC [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) [Bounced Message ] Re: BSN: Washington Post, 2/20/2000 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Nigel Kennedy plays Joni ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: Critics - NJC ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Cryptic Music Artist Quiz - NJC ["Helen M. Adcock" ] A REAL Man! (NJC) [Michael Paz ] The Joni Mitchell DISScussion List [Phyliss Ward ] Re: No More Special Editions - [Phyliss Ward ] Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) [Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Carly albums (njc) > Letters Never Sent is truly awesome... especially "Like a River" which > always makes me bawl, and "Touched By the Sun". These are two of favourites ever. Along with Lost In Your Love(I love it when she belts).Although it was trashed and didn't sell well, I have always loved Spy, which although I understand Mark's reasoning for his comment about Spoiled Girl, I would say was her DED. Interestingly, when i first heard that album, I just knew she and James were about to split. Carly is atpresent in the studios working on her new album for release this year. Two rumours are that it is about 12 New York women and that it is 'unplugged' and called Stark. > Evian - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 07:56:32 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) In a message dated 2/19/00 10:44:07 PM US Central Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << Glad I don't know what my enemies submit about me. >> Kakki, I'm just reading this...obviously I apologize for sending something that was hurtful to you in any way. Certainly not my intention. Please accept my apology. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:27:44 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Catching up.....(NJC) Joseph said: <> And then Bob tried to lie to Joseph: <> Actually, the truth of the matter is this: We *always* post a hell of a lot, because we are all (every single one of us) brilliant, prolific, genius-artistic types, and everything we say is beyond facinating! (Especially when *I* post, of course!) The only way to stay on this list, is to do what I have done: Drop all your friends, your job, your significant other, and your kids. Do not cook, clean, or leave your house ever again. Then you will become a bonifide member of the Jonimitchillites cult. (BTW.....the *most* important part of this plan is to become strong, and resist all attempts of deprograming!) You can do it, Joseph! Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 07:16:27 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: No More Special Editions I had a short visit with Robbie Cavolina yesterday. He asked me to pass on to the list that because of overwhelmingly negative and sometimes venomous feedback about the Special Edition and paintings to the flesh and blood people on the receiving line at Reprise, the powers-that-be have decided to not do any special editions in the future. While this may come as good news to those who think these types of special editions and the little paintings are superfluous or whatever, I feel very saddened to hear this on many levels, and I suspect that others who collect and appreciate these packages probably feel the same. I hope this decision is not set in stone. As for the defective CDs that some received he only said that it was an "accident" and that Reprise is working very hard to correct it. He also gave me the impression that Joni is not "pissed" about it and is understanding of the unfortunate situation. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:47:35 EST From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: Sad Songs in Memory of Wally Hi. Yesterday, we lit at candle and said a prayer at that time Kate told us Wally's ashes would be spread. Of course this is not the end, just a new beginning. But still very sad. There was a thread about "Sad Songs" and I'm adding these. "Jesse"-Janis Ian Sire of Sorrow ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:56:54 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: No More Special Editions This strikes me as unfortunately typical of the attitude at Reprise. Rather than decide to do special editions WELL, and make them worth the dollar amount they are charging, they pitch a hissy fit and decide to take their toys home. Speaking of venomous, anybody remember how unprofessionally that Jack person at Reprise talked to people who complained about something last time? I don't even remember the issue, but I remember the venom! At 07:16 AM 2/20/00 -0800, you wrote: >I had a short visit with Robbie Cavolina yesterday. He asked me to pass on >to the list that because of overwhelmingly negative and sometimes venomous >feedback about the Special Edition and paintings to the flesh and blood >people on the receiving line at Reprise, the powers-that-be have decided to >not do any special editions in the future. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:18:05 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: No More Special Editions Dear Kakki: When Robbie said Reprise "is working very hard to correct (the defective CD situation)" I hope he means they will have enough time to check carefully the quality of the regular edition --due out next month--before it is shipped. Somehow, I fear the calendar is against this. If Joni has not expressed herself as being pissed about it, I would guess that it's because she realizes that wouldn't solve the problem in any way and that it is just about impossible to find out who's responsible. Reprise is part of her life in the short term. I'd not be surprised if she had very strong feelings--not expressed to Reprise--about the fate of an endeavor in which she had invested a certain amount of work and hope. ("a certain amount" might be an understatement.) DAVID LAHM uncharacteristically inclined this morning to theorize about what people he doesn't know are feeling. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:20:55 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: No More Special Editions Oh, PS: Kakki, I feel that you can reasonably expect that Reprise's decision not to create special editions in the future is NOT set in stone. DL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:31:00 -0700 From: Catherine Turley Subject: Re: No More Special Editions I agree with you Deb. I am sorry to hear that Reprise won't do special editions in the future, but their response seems a bit petulant. I don't blame them for smarting from customer rudeness--as the recipient of lots of venom and spew on a phone job in days of yore, I'm very aware of how common that is, and also I'm sensitive to the fact that the person who answers the phone usually is not the person responsible for my problem. When I called Reprise about my order, I was very polite, but the attitude I got from the guy I spoke to was, "Your disc skips? Yeah, well, whatever." I'm not going to go ballistic over a scratched cd, no matter how expensive--in the final analysis, its just a cd, a piece of plastic. I would have been happy with a simple apology, something along the lines of "We screwed up, we're sorry, here's how we'll make it right." However , I was very put off by the way they handled my call, and if you hadn't posted the Quality Assurance return address, I'd still be in the dark as to what to do with my disc. Reprise made serious mistakes in production, distribution, advertising (they continued to advertise that each set is numbered) and customer service on this project, and now rather than have a hard look at themselves and where their processes broke down, they appear to want to blame all those nasty Joni Mitchell fans. Oy! Catherine T. in AZ > This strikes me as unfortunately typical of the attitude at Reprise.. > Rather than decide to do special editions WELL, and make them worth the > dollar amount they are charging, they pitch a hissy fit and decide to take > their toys home. > > Speaking of venomous, anybody remember how unprofessionally that Jack > person at Reprise talked to people who complained about something last > time? I don't even remember the issue, but I remember the venom! > > At 07:16 AM 2/20/00 -0800, you wrote: > >I had a short visit with Robbie Cavolina yesterday. He asked me to pass on > >to the list that because of overwhelmingly negative and sometimes venomous > >feedback about the Special Edition and paintings to the flesh and blood > >people on the receiving line at Reprise, the powers-that-be have decided to > >not do any special editions in the future.. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:06:34 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: What's a good Carly Simon to buy? NJC I don't know a lot about Carly Simon but being a Jimmy Webb completist I got her newest album Film Noir and discovered a gorgeous album of old songs reworked. Webb produced and sings on the record which also features Van Dyke Parks. Do any Carly fans know where I can find the full length varsion of "Why" which is an astounding production by Bernard Edwards from Chic. I checked her cds but it's not on any. thanks, Philip NP D' angelo - Voodoo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:18:46 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: No More Special Editions - ----- Original Message ----- From: Deb Messling > This strikes me as unfortunately typical of the attitude at Reprise. I agree. The way I see it, special editions (or better packaging to give it it's proper name) should be part of Reprise's survival plan. They should be trying to make the artifact more attractive if they want to keep us shopping for cds. Philip NP D'angelo - Voodoo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:08:21 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) Lisa, Thank you for the nice post. I appreciate it very much. My life *is* getting way too busy lately and so I will be taking a break from here for awhile. Regarding my sometimes unabashed enthusiasm for Joni, I have to say that I am not the only one around here although it may look that way sometimes. I constantly receive private email from regular and irregular posters and lurkers who often feel the same positive reaction to various aspects of her music and painting that I do, but who are reticent to express the same on the list. The critics certainly have their place here and their posts are often educational and provide new angles and insights. I appreciate and learn from them. But there is something upside-down when a significant portion of the list feels reticent to express purely positive opinions about various aspects of Joni's work. I know we pride ourselves here as being collectively brilliant and a cut above the typical discussion group, but I can't buy an attitude that makes people feel foolish because they happen to like something that others more boldly vocal have dismissed. So I hope that some of those hiding their light under a bushel will come forward and feel comfortable to express their opinions more often. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 18:23:19 CET From: "Lori Hakulinen" Subject: Re: Tax Free Dear Pres, How do I get my magic decoder ring and other fantastic prizes for being a member? Lori, curious (?) ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ As Founding Father and President Emeritus of the Dog Eat Dog Musical Appreciation Society (DEDMAS), please accept my personal invitation to join our merry band. Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:22:09 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: No More Special Editions Catherine - you make very valid and absolutely correct points about the way it was handled. On the other hand, it sounded to me like their was some particularly nasty spew that hit the fan that went way beyond the complaints of the defective CDs alone. Maybe they deserved that, maybe they are being petulant, and maybe they just feel the whole thing has become a royal pain and don't want to bother with it again - right or wrong. And Deb wrote: > > Speaking of venomous, anybody remember how unprofessionally that Jack > > person at Reprise talked to people who complained about something last > > time? I don't even remember the issue, but I remember the venom! I don't think "Jack" (an alias) ever responded to anyone and that was the problem. I did a joke post pretending to be poor Jack which I hope was not mistaken as the real thing in quick scroll-by. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 17:21:04 -0000 From: "Matthew Hall" Subject: Re: BSN review in yesterday's Daily Mail Newspaper - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason Maloney Subject: BSN review in yesterday's Daily Mail Newspaper > Did any other UK-ers see this? It was a fairly substantial review by > their standards, with a large picture of Joni. They gave it four stars > out of five. > > I'll try and transcribe it to e-mail in the next 24 hours. One thing it > did mention is that BSN is out in the UK on Feb 28th. Martin informed us > that Music Week (generally the most reliable source on these matters) > says the album is due on 6th March. Of course, they could have got it > wrong, or the date has been changed since the Daily Mail article was > actually written. Does anyone know for sure? > > Jason. > > I'm as much in the dark about the release date as you Jason, but I did like the review I don't normally read the Daily Mail because it is sooo right wing, but my brother saw the review and photocopied it for me and it was brilliant - very enthusiastic by their standards; they didn't have a bad word to say about it. Good publicity for the album - it's a very popular paper. Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:12:27 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: What's a good Carly Simon to buy? NJC > I don't know a lot about Carly Simon but being a Jimmy Webb completist > I got her newest album Film Noir and discovered a gorgeous album of old > songs reworked. Webb produced and sings on the record which also features > Van Dyke Parks. > Do any Carly fans know where I can find the full length varsion of "Why" > which is an astounding production by Bernard Edwards from Chic. I > checked her cds but it's not on any. > thanks, > > Philip > > NP D' angelo - Voodoo 'Why' is on the box set 'Clouds In My Coffee' which is a pretty good retrospective. What do you mean by full length version? The one on the box set is 4:06. 'Clouds In My Coffee' is 3 cds and has some unreleased stuff plus a few songs Carly did for various films that I had never heard. Some of them were very pleasant surprises indeed. Of course all the hits are on it also. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:50:35 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) > Lisa, > > Thank you for the nice post. I appreciate it very much. My life *is* > getting way too busy lately and so I will be taking a break from here for > awhile. > Please don't stay away too long, Kakki. I always look forward to reading what you have to say. Whether it's a story about a close encounter of the celeb kind or your opinions on pc'ness or whatever, your intelligence & warmth come through every time. You always have something interesting to say. > Regarding my sometimes unabashed enthusiasm for Joni, I have to say that I > am not the only one around here although it may look that way sometimes. I > constantly receive private email from regular and irregular posters and > lurkers who often feel the same positive reaction to various aspects of her > music and painting that I do, but who are reticent to express the same on > the list. There aren't many artists that I can say this about but I don't think there is one Joni Mitchell album that I absolutely do not like. Some I like better than others but there isn't one that I would say 'take that out of the player, I can't stand that dreck!' Joni has never produced anything that even remotely resembles 'dreck' imo and I don't care if people think I'm a fanatic. Also, not being a musician, I can't sit here & point out what Joni 'should have' done on a particular song or album to make it 'better.' Even if I were a musician I'm not sure I would want to do that. These are *her* creations, it's *her* vision we're talking about here & who am I to tell Joni how to go about realizing that vision? I can say I like something or don't like something so much and try to say why I feel that way, but I just don't see myself trying to 'correct' her. I also think it's odd that Joni suddenly doesn't want to produce any more new original work. If I remember right, when TTT was released she was very enthusiastic about her new material, saying she was at the top of her game. Now she doesn't want to write, at least for the time being. She was also making comments about the people who really 'get' her music, the people the music really means something to, saying that the thanks & praise she gets from those people are her 'real honor'. What if through one channel or another she got wind of all the criticism from her supposedly loyal fan base about how all of the songs on TTT 'sound the same' and 'I'm really disappointed with TTT?' Makes me wonder if I ever went a little overboard and said something I would not want to get back to her.... I certainly don't want to censor anybody on this list and I'm certainly not going to be vitriolic about every critic that writes a negative review of a Joni Mitchell album. And I don't think we all have to be starry-eyed fanatics that sheepishly agree with everything Joni says and obediently heap praise on every note & word she produces. But I sometimes wonder where constructive criticism ends and sniping & self-aggrandizement begin. I'm not talking exclusively about the comments that sometimes appear on the list, I wonder the same thing about some of the reviews I read in the press. Isn't there a balance somewhere? And before anybody gets ruffled feathers, let me say that I think for the most part we do a pretty good job of maintaining that balance but from time to time..... And why on earth should any of us feel reticent to post positive comments about the artist we all say we love so much? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:02:44 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: No More Special Editions > > > This strikes me as unfortunately typical of the attitude at Reprise. > > I agree. The way I see it, special editions (or better packaging > to give it it's proper name) should be part of Reprise's survival plan. > They > should be trying to make the artifact more attractive if they want to keep > us > shopping for cds. > > Philip > Speaking from the perspective of one person who finally got an unscratched, non-defective cd, I have to say that I think the LE is delightful. I do agree that it was way over-hyped by Reprise and overpriced but then when I heard about 'lithographs, suitable for framing' my thought was, 'oh sure, how are they going to fit something like that into a box that size?' So I wasn't expecting so much from it I guess. But I like the box alot and have no regrets about buying. And the music is gorgeous! Did anyone else notice that the picture on the 'blue TV screen light' in the 'if you want me I'll be at the bar' painting is very similar to the infamous Joni & Don french-kissing painting? The couple on the TV aren't Joni & Don but the position of their heads is the same. This is album cover art, after all, not Sunday in the Gallery With Joni. So why not paint a heart on the sleeve and put in little references to songs & the theme of the album? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 14:19:13 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: No More Special Editions In a message dated 2/20/00 10:23:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << He asked me to pass on to the list that because of overwhelmingly negative and sometimes venomous feedback about the Special Edition and paintings to the flesh and blood people on the receiving line at Reprise, the powers-that-be have decided to not do any special editions in the future. While this may come as good news to those who think these types of special editions and the little paintings are superfluous or whatever, I feel very saddened to hear this on many levels, and I suspect that others who collect and appreciate these packages probably feel the same. I hope this decision is not set in stone. >> you know, Kakki, this is a typical corporate response. Instead of looking at their own mistakes and trying to figure out how they might do things better in the future, Reprise decides to shoot off its own toe. I say, fine, let them. If this current release is as good as they can do a special edition, they shouldn't bother anyway. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 14:57:22 -0500 From: Janet Hess Subject: BSN: Washington Post, 2/20/2000 Here's what I had with my coffee this morning. ;) Cheerz, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, who wouldn't mind being painted by Joni under the right conditions (with lots of Fishy treats for the model) P.S. If you're one of the folks I owe e-mail to, please bear with me. Thanks. - ---------------------------------------------------------- 'Both Sides Now'--and Then Joni Mitchell, Taking a Swing Through Pop Standards of the '30s and '40s By Richard Harrington Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, February 20, 2000; Page G09 Joni Mitchell, one of the most influential musicians of the past 30 years, is a latecomer to American popular song, at least as a performer. A few years back, when she sang the Lena Horne staple "Stormy Weather" at a fund-raiser, it marked her initial foray into new territory. That was soon followed by a pair of standards recorded for Herbie Hancock's Gershwin tribute album. And when the singer-songwriter toured last year with Bob Dylan, she surprised fans with her sly, dusky reading of "Comes Love," a torch song long associated with Billie Holiday. That made sense on two counts. Thanks to constant smoking, Mitchell's voice has darkened and roughened to grainy, Holiday-like pathos over her three-decade career. In addition, much of her own writing has addressed the coming, and the going, of love. And that's the central theme of "Both Sides Now" (Warner Bros.). It's Mitchell's 20th album, but the first consisting mostly of other writers' material and the first to feature her with an orchestra (the London Symphony) rather than a band. Most of the songs are pop standards from the '30s and '40s, strung together into a narrative about love's laborious journey, from first sweet thrall and joyful bloom to inevitable decay and sorrowful dissolution. The album opens on a seemingly happy note with "You're My Thrill," its Holiday-ish bounce and glow suggesting pleasures both immediate and anticipated, though there's also the intimation of love-as-a-drug. An essential insecurity of the heart is underscored by Mitchell's reading of the Etta James classic "At Last," in which sudden happiness feels more like burden than relief. Mitchell then reprises "Comes Love," its hazy fatalism evoked by Mark Isham's muted trumpet and the singer's resigned declarations that "Comes a headache, you can lose it in a day/ Comes a toothache, see your dentist right away/ Comes love, nothing can be done." That absolutism is made worse when problems arise in a relationship, as they do in the bittersweet dismissal of "You've Changed" and "Answer Me, My Love," where Mitchell wearily insists that "if you're happier without me/ I'll try not to care/ But if you still think about me, please listen to my prayer." Such a prayer seems temporarily answered on "A Taste of You," where the singer confesses, "You're in my blood like holy wine/ You taste so bitter but you taste so sweet/ Oh, I could drink a case of you right now and still I'd be on my feet." But it's back to love hangovers with the pleading "Don't Go to Strangers" and the convoluted mood swings of "Sometimes I'm Happy," one of the few tracks to favor light, brassy blasts over lush, romantic strings. Elsewhere, Mitchell does what scorned lovers often do: She puts up a brave front--on "Don't Worry About Me." She also surrenders to the light swing of Rodgers and Hart's "I Wish I Were in Love Again," during which a laundry list of negatives ("the broken dates, the endless waits . . . the conversation with the flying plates") somehow balances against the surety of connection: "Believe me, sir, I much prefer/ The classic battle of a him and her/ I don't like quiet and I wish I were in love again." Mitchell is comfortable in this milieu, adapting easily to the disciplined lyric flow of classic popular song, so very different from her own run-on lines. Like any canny veteran, she covers encroaching vocal limitations with richer interpretive nuances--you can feel these songs as much as hear them. She also seems relieved to be away from autobiography: These songs address aspects of love in universal terms that may seem quaint in today's era of clumsy explicitness, but resonate in a timeless manner. Which is why the two Mitchell originals, smartly recast by arranger Vince Mendoza in keeping with the mood of the project, work so beautifully. "A Case of You," from 1971's "Blue" album, is as gently intoxicating as its premise, while the title track, which dates from 1968, gains tremendously from its notion of looking at life, and love, from the opposed perspectives of innocence and experience. "They say I've changed," Mitchell sings with ineffable sadness, adding, "Well, something's lost and something's gained in living every day." As she moves through her overdrawn memory bank with dirgelike melancholy, Mitchell recognizes the essential tragedy. "It's life's illusions that I recall," she sighs, conceding, "I really don't know life at all." "Both Sides Now" is available now in a special collectors' limited edition that includes four original Mitchell lithographs. A regular release follows March 21. (To hear a free Sound Bite from this album, call Post-Haste at 202-334-9000 and press 8161.) - ----- Let all these dogs go running free The wild and gentle dogs Kennelled in me. Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 14:58:54 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: BSN NY Times Review (NJC) Hey Patrick et al. I think Eric said that Holden probably preferred the anorexic YOUTH, not children. I thought he was referring to young stars like Jewel, Alanis, and the very thin star of Alley McBeal. I didn't read "pedophile" at all. My 2 cents (American). :) All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:17:34 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) Count me as another who appreciates the intelligence and creativity of your input on this list, Kakki. I think we all have enthusiasm for Joni, or we wouldn't be here. But I do like hearing other points of view,some of which I may not agree with. If this list was only a cheering section for all things Joni, it would too boring to bother with. As for "critics of all expression, judges in black and white", Every time you see a movie or read a book and someone says "how was it?", even if all you say was "great" or "disappointing", you are giving it a critique. The "IMO" is implied. Some people go into more detail,and get paid for it. It's human nature to want to know whether something is a waste of time or worthy, but it's good to remember to take someone else's opinion with a grain of salt. As for Reprise, I think Deb hit the nail on the head. I think alot of the criticism of the LE was not so much for it's content, but for the spotty quality control. It's insulting for them to put it on the people that speak up about it, instead of getting their own act together for the next one. But whatever. RR Kakki wrote: > > Lisa, > > Thank you for the nice post. I appreciate it very much. My life *is* > getting way too busy lately and so I will be taking a break from here for > awhile. > > Regarding my sometimes unabashed enthusiasm for Joni, I have to say that I > am not the only one around here although it may look that way sometimes. I > constantly receive private email from regular and irregular posters and > lurkers who often feel the same positive reaction to various aspects of her > music and painting that I do, but who are reticent to express the same on > the list. The critics certainly have their place here and their posts are > often educational and provide new angles and insights. I appreciate and > learn from them. But there is something upside-down when a significant > portion of the list feels reticent to express purely positive opinions about > various aspects of Joni's work. I know we pride ourselves here as being > collectively brilliant and a cut above the typical discussion group, but I > can't buy an attitude that makes people feel foolish because they happen to > like something that others more boldly vocal have dismissed. So I hope that > some of those hiding their light under a bushel will come forward and feel > comfortable to express their opinions more often. > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:17:00 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: What's a good Carly Simon to buy? NJC Why is on her first hits compilation(2nd edition-it was added much later) and it is also on her Clouds In My Coffee 3 cd set. I always hated the song and was embarrassed that she had done it until i saw her video of it and could plainly see how tongue in cheek it was for her. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:27:45 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Sad Songs in Memory of Wally > > > "Jesse"-Janis Ian This is indeed a very sad song. Can't listen to it at all without feeling lumpy. Even sadder when you know she had to change the gender of whom she was singing about. > Sire of Sorrow - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:36:52 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: BSN NY Times Review (NJC) Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Hey Patrick et al. > I think Eric said that Holden probably preferred the anorexic YOUTH, not > children. I thought he was referring to young stars like Jewel, Alanis, and > the very thin star of Alley McBeal. If you think these 3, especially the 30 odd McBeal are youths you must be getting old!!!! > I didn't read "pedophile" at all. My 2 > cents (American). :) > > All the best, > Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 17:06:01 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN Jamie wrote: >>For those of you that have complained that BSN Special Edition is too unwieldy to store with your other cds.... we always knew that the special ed. was going to be in a big box from the interviews at LACE. If you didn't want to pay for something you couldn't store... wait until the general release comes out. A little harsh of me I know but you knew what you were going in for.<< With all due respect Jamie, I personally don't have the time to read every little thing about Joni, much as I would like to. Truthfully, I skipped many of the details around the LE BSN and actually thought the box would be just about the size of the CD and didn't even have time to think about what size the lithos would be or if they'd even be contained in the box or be separate. I suppose that deserves a great big DUH?? Not that it would make it any easier to keep it with all the others CDs if it were smaller but I didn't think it would be this big, unruly box, which is quite difficult to open besides. I just think it was a poorly thought-out design. It would have been nice since we, her most ardent fans, paid dearly for it, that we would have gotten a nicer product, that's all. My point is that we have 600 subscribers to the JMDL, not 15,000 and even within that 600 person membership, how many people actually read or heard the LACE interviews anyway???? Unless Reprise had actual dimensions of the box on the site...I don't know...I ordered quickly from them...tapping my fingers on the keys as I waited for things to load because I had to get to work. I canceled my order with Reprise (which was still on backorder) btw, since a friend of mine was able to get me a copy from his local record store in another part of the state. Ta ta for now Gina ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 18:19:59 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: What's a good Carly Simon to buy? NJC Mark wrote: > 'Why' is on the box set 'Clouds In My Coffee' which is a pretty good > retrospective. What do you mean by full length version? Thanks Mark. The long version I heard I presume was a dance mix of it. Maybe it's only on a 12". Great tune nonetheless. philip ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:05:47 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) From: "lpeakes" Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 08:07:44 -0500 It was sad to read this: <> What rots about it is that, while I certainly don't know Kakki, my impression of her from this list is that she's the best kind of fan; one who expresses her enthusiasm for Joni Mitchell while maintaining what appears to be a well-rounded life (lots of other musical interests, trip to Micronesia, full-time career, culinary interests) And what's great is that she's thoughtful enough to share her views and resources with others. No day is too short for hospitality, Kakki - I feel badly that you ever felt the fool for having been a generous host. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 18:10:04 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: No More Special Editions Mark in Seattle wrote: >Speaking from the perspective of one person who finally got an >unscratched, non-defective cd, I have to say that I think the LE is >delightful. I do agree that it was way over-hyped by Reprise and >overpriced but then when I heard about 'lithographs, suitable for >framing' my thought was, 'oh sure, how are they going to fit something >like that into a box that size?' So I wasn't expecting so much from >it I guess. But I like the box alot and have no regrets about buying. >And the music is gorgeous! I also, finally, received a L.E. BSN in mint condition and (call me crazy) intend to frame the "suitable for framing" lithos... I will place all four in one matted frame to give the piece some substance size-wise perhaps two up top and two below in a square mounting, or maybe side-by-side so I can use it over the doorway in my bedroom. I have to say I feel it would be a big mistake for Reprise to eliminate Special Editions entirely due to this screw-up, they just need to learn from their mistake and do better the next time around. Cassy N.P. Holly Cole - "Temptation" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 19:05:37 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN: Washington Post, 2/20/2000 In a message dated 2/20/00 2:03:47 PM US Central Standard Time, hessj@ix.netcom.com writes: << She also surrenders to the light swing of Rodgers and Hart's "I Wish I Were in Love Again," during which a laundry list of negatives ("the broken dates, the endless waits . . . the conversation with the flying plates") somehow balances against the surety of connection: "Believe me, sir, I much prefer/ The classic battle of a him and her/ I don't like quiet and I wish I were in love again." >> And even though I grew up hearing this song, the Lorenz Hart lyric- "The furtive sigh, the blackened eye, the words 'I love you til the day I die', The self-deception that believes that lie, I wish I were in love again" - -Sounds to me like something Joni could have written. And even though these are all old "standards", I have to admit (being a rock and roll kid) that there are some of these tunes I've never heard before, namely: Don't Go To Strangers Sometimes I'm Happy Don't Worry 'Bout Me So it's sorta like getting new Joni anyway! Thanks for sending this review along, Janet, here's some cyber-treats for Deanna the Wonder Kitty...:~) Bob NP: Green Day, "All the Time" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 23:16:35 -0500 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Nigel Kennedy plays Joni Violinist Nigel Kennedy has a released a new CD called Classic Kennedy. The 20 short pieces are as follows (check out #19): 1. Vivaldi: 3rd Movement From Summer (The Four Seasons) 2. Massenet: Meditation From Thais 3. Trad: Scarborough Fair 4. Brahms: Hungarian Dance No. 5 5. Chopin: Nocturne In C Sharp 6. Satie: Gymnopedie No. 2 7. Gershwin: Prelude No. 1 8. Bach: Air On A G String 9. Trad: Danny Boy 10. Monti: Czardas 11. Handel: Arrival Of The Queen Of Sheba 12. Bach Gounod: Ave Maria 13. Debussy: The Girl With The Flaxen Hair 14. Satie: Gymnopedie No. 1 15. Gershwin: Prelude No. 2 16. Rimsky-Korsakov: Flight Of The Bumble Bee 17. Kroll: Banjo & Fiddie 18. Saraste: Zigeunerweisen 19. Mitchell: Urge For Going 20. Kennedy: Melody In The Wind Has anyone heard this? Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:27:35 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: No More Special Editions Personally, I'm a little surprised at all the negativity about the BSN Ltd. Ed. I haven't received mine yet, so maybe I'm speaking out of turn (it wouldn't be the first time). But I know pretty much what I'm getting, or I wouldn't have ordered it in the first place - particularly when it's costing me NZD$80! There were several posts describing the package, ie. the "hat box", etc., and I thought the Reprise site showed it pretty well as it appears (or am I mistaken)? Sure, it's frustrating getting a defective CD, but I do wonder if there would have been as many complaints about globs of glue, "trading-card" lithographs, etc. if the CD's had been in perfect condition, and/or if the CD's themselves had been in a jewel-case inside the box? Just my 2c worth. I'm now getting into my asbestos undies, and waiting for the first blast-wave! Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:37:03 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Critics - NJC Kakki wrote: >Found an interesting quote from Nietzsche (the philosopher, not the cat) >today- > >"Insects sting, not in malice, but because they want to live. It is the >same with critics; they desire our blood, not our pain." This seems very similar to the old fable about the frog giving the scorpion a ride across the river. The frog is reluctant and the scorpion promises not to sting him. Halfway across, the scorpion stings the frog, and the frog says "Why did you do that? Now we'll both drown?" The scorpion replies "It's in my nature". Personally I think most critics are critics because it is in their nature to criticise! Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:44:23 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Cryptic Music Artist Quiz - NJC Sorry for using up bandwidth on this, but I really need some help! A friend sent me a list of cryptic clues to bands or artists, and we're stuck on the last three. I'm sure one of the music sluts will be able to decipher them! This is how it works: "Nun toboggan" = Sister Sledge "Elizabeth, Victoria, Mary" = Queen "Young men selling mice" = Pet Shop Boys The ones we're stuck on are: "Preserve reflect on famous river" "Sent for porridge" "Keep the horses in footwear" Any help would be gratefully received, and if anyone wants to try their hand at the full list (about 80) let me know (not the list) and I'll send you a copy! All the music sluts out there will definitely want to try this! Thanks Hell P.S. The quiz appears to be of English/British origin, if that helps! _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 22:45:07 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: A REAL Man! (NJC) Rick wrote: "Rick, ignoring his screaming wife, whining children, destitute neighbours, and all the hungry children in Japan just so he could post this useless piece of info for like-minded slackers. ;-0" A REAL MAN AT LAST. Thank you so much for the tip Rick. I gotta check out my girl Macy. Michael (running after that chick Lisa-Gawd she was deep!) NP-Silky Veils of Ardor-DJRD ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:58:46 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: The Joni Mitchell DISScussion List Hey Les - Maybe you could rename this list the Joni Mitchell DISScussion List ; - ) But seriously folks - Why so much negativity about Siquomb? After all, she is, isn't she? And if you didn't like her in the first place - What brought you to this list? And if you don't like her anymore - Why are you still here? I don't love everything she's ever done (or said or painted for that matter) but the vast majority of it is so superior to everything else in the 'genre'. Are we so hard to please? Or maybe does it take time to appreciate her new work - adjust to the changes? I'll admit right here that I was terribly dissappointed when both Hejira and TI came out. I only liked a few of the cuts very much. Now, they are both right up there in the top 3 or 4 or 5 or...you know it's hard - there is so much good stuff! Hey - I even like her 80's paintings better than the 90's ones - at least for now ;- ) Bottom line - noone comes close to her talents in my mind. A freind loaned me a James Taylor Live concert on DVD the other day. I think it was filmed the night I was at the taping of PWWAM. Don't get me wrong - I really like James a lot but I became bored after a while. It's so much the same old thing. His 'reworking' of songs that he talks about in the short interview included didn't seem like much of a rework to me...certainly nothing like the way Joni reinvents her songs - totally different. At first I was a little dissappointed that she would be re-recording old songs instead of writing new ones for a while but now I'm thinking - they'll be 'like new', knowing her. - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:04:49 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: No More Special Editions - "Helen M. Adcock" wrote: > Personally, I'm a little surprised at all the negativity about the BSN Ltd. > Ed. snip > There were several posts describing the package, ie. the "hat box", etc., and > I thought the Reprise site showed it pretty well as it appears (or am I > mistaken)? I have to agree with you Helen. I felt that pretty much WYSIWYG. My copy from CDnow was in perfect condition - no skips or visible scratches - paperwork all nicely shrinkwrapped - music incredibly beautiful. I really love having my box on my coffee table - at least for now. > Just my 2c worth. I'm now getting into my asbestos undies, and waiting for > the first blast-wave! What a shame you have to feel that way. - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:09:19 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) Gosh Mark! I was reading your post and trying to think what I could add on this topic and I've decided you've said it all too perfectly already. (this is another way of saying "me too") Mark or Travis wrote: > Please don't stay away too long, Kakki. I always look forward to > reading what you have to say. Whether it's a story about a close > encounter of the celeb kind or your opinions on pc'ness or whatever, > your intelligence & warmth come through every time. You always have > something interesting to say. > > There aren't many artists that I can say this about but I don't think > there is one Joni Mitchell album that I absolutely do not like. Some > I like better than others but there isn't one that I would say 'take > that out of the player, I can't stand that dreck!' Joni has never > produced anything that even remotely resembles 'dreck' imo and I don't > care if people think I'm a fanatic. Also, not being a musician, I > can't sit here & point out what Joni 'should have' done on a > particular song or album to make it 'better.' Even if I were a > musician I'm not sure I would want to do that. These are *her* > creations, it's *her* vision we're talking about here & who am I to > tell Joni how to go about realizing that vision? I can say I like > something or don't like something so much and try to say why I feel > that way, but I just don't see myself trying to 'correct' her. > > I also think it's odd that Joni suddenly doesn't want to produce any > more new original work. If I remember right, when TTT was released > she was very enthusiastic about her new material, saying she was at > the top of her game. Now she doesn't want to write, at least for the > time being. She was also making comments about the people who really > 'get' her music, the people the music really means something to, > saying that the thanks & praise she gets from those people are her > 'real honor'. What if through one channel or another she got wind of > all the criticism from her supposedly loyal fan base about how all of > the songs on TTT 'sound the same' and 'I'm really disappointed with > TTT?' Makes me wonder if I ever went a little overboard and said > something I would not want to get back to her.... > > I certainly don't want to censor anybody on this list and I'm > certainly not going to be vitriolic about every critic that writes a > negative review of a Joni Mitchell album. And I don't think we all > have to be starry-eyed fanatics that sheepishly agree with everything > Joni says and obediently heap praise on every note & word she > produces. But I sometimes wonder where constructive criticism ends > and sniping & self-aggrandizement begin. I'm not talking exclusively > about the comments that sometimes appear on the list, I wonder the > same thing about some of the reviews I read in the press. Isn't there > a balance somewhere? And before anybody gets ruffled feathers, let me > say that I think for the most part we do a pretty good job of > maintaining that balance but from time to time..... And why on earth > should any of us feel reticent to post positive comments about the > artist we all say we love so much? - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #105 ***************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?