From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #101 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, February 18 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 101 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: A Wally moment -- PLEASE READ ["Ross, Les" ] Re: BSN complaints - Day 10 ["Kakki" ] Re: A Wally moment -- PLEASE READ [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: new to list [Marian ] update from reprise [Deb Messling ] Re: update from reprise NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Rainbow's Rambling (some JC) [RainbowCrystal@webtv.net] La Scala NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Less Interesting ??????(md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Catching up..... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Joni Rants [Susan McNamara ] SIQUOMB [AsharaJM@aol.com] BSN promo CD?, skipping [JP ] Re: House of the Rising Sun NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Joni Unplugged and Jamming [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Please read, Sunflowers for Wally ["Catherine McKay" ] hejira ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: update from reprise ["Catherine McKay" ] SJC: My Story and Intro [NathanLaFraneer@aol.com] more on Joni's earlier melodies [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: Rainbow's Rambling (some JC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: La Scala NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: hejira ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, (md) - now VG-8 vs other instruments ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Joni Rants - now NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: SJC: My Story and Intro [catman ] Re: Rainbow's Rambling (some JC) [Linda Worster ] Re: Joni Unplugged and Jamming [Randy Remote ] Re: BSN promo CD?, skipping [Randy Remote ] Re: Performing Songwriter list ---- Where's Joni??? ["Bill Dollinger" ] Re: Diltz TV Special Update ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 08:16:06 -0000 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: RE: A Wally moment -- PLEASE READ I'd like to take time out to be in on this but can anyone tell me what the time difference is between Pacific Standard Time and British GMT time? Thanks Les (London) Message Jim gave me permission to let the JMDL know that Wally's ashes will be scattered next Saturday, February 19, 2000 at noon (Pacific Standard Time). This would be an opportune time of observance for all who wish to participate in a joint remembrance of Wally -- mark a moment of silence, say a prayer, light a candle, or whatever gesture moves you. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 00:27:55 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: BSN complaints - Day 10 Laura lamented: > How many Lithographs is everyone getting? The Reprise site shows four but I only found > three when I opened my CD now package. One of the Lithographs has two big spots.....what > looks like glue marks. (?) > > The inside black round part is ratty looking and torn. Part of it looks like it was sliced > with a knife. Anyone else's? The CD does have a few scratches. Not too > bad looking tho........I haven't played it yet. Gee Laura, yours sounds like the worse one yet! A couple of my "lithos" also have some smudge marks on them, too. I wonder what is behind all this? The Reprise site mentions something about a problem in the handling process (like people just threw them in the box any old way?) but I've now received not only an email but also a snail mail letter today from Reprise citing "manufacturing problems" for my backordered copy. Seems like anything that could go wrong did or maybe there's more to this story. Mark D. mentioned something like 50,000 copies of the LE BSN. I recall the number was more around 15,000. I'm now wondering if Nicholson had gotten wind of the screw-ups and was trying to be gallant by buying up the poor stock at Tower before it hit the street. I'm sure Joni *is* quite Pissed at this point. Maybe there will be a silver lining to all this - like maybe a $40 off coupon with the replacement copy or better yet, maybe a REAL, full-sized litho of one of the paintings to assauge the customers ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 03:37:01 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: A Wally moment -- PLEASE READ In a message dated 2/18/00 3:19:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, LXROSS@ctrl.co.uk writes: << I'd like to take time out to be in on this but can anyone tell me what the time difference is between Pacific Standard Time and British GMT time? Thanks Les (London) >> Eight hours during Standard Time, I think. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:59:50 +0100 From: Marian Subject: Re: new to list On Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:43:19 -0500 Erin Stoy wrote: > I have 3 questions for the group: > 1. How exactly is Hejira pronounced? Joni pronounces it "heh jeer' ruh". The dictionary gives two pronunciations: "hi-ji'-(like gyrate) ruh" ("uh" = that backwards "e") and "hej'i-ruh". I think the second pronunciation is probably closer to the pronunciation in Arabic. It is an Arabic word meaning separation, flight, journey for safety. Also spelled hegira. Welcome to the list! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 06:42:33 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: update from reprise Here's the scoop on damaged disks. I assume from the context that you can return the disk only and keep the box and lithos. It appears that, due to assembly error, a small number of CD's in the Joni Mitchell "Both Sides Now" Limited Edition package may have become scratched. We apologize for any inconvenience and will gladly replace any damaged disc. Please send the damaged disc along with your name and mailing address to Warner Bros. Records Quality Assurance, 3300 Warner Blvd., Burbank, CA 91505 or call (818) 953-3208. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:23:00 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: update from reprise NJC Debbie's letter from Reprise: << It appears that, due to assembly error, a small number of CD's in the Joni Mitchell "Both Sides Now" Limited Edition package may have become scratched. >> a *small* number they say ?!?!?? lol lol lol jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 02:34:00 -1000 (HST) From: RainbowCrystal@webtv.net Subject: Rainbow's Rambling (some JC) Aloha Everyone! I've been faithfully "lurking" and thinking about writing for some time. Around here we call it, "Hawaii Time"! I had a great vacation on Maui recently. Lots of good musicians there. I was fortunate to attend the "Maui Heartsong Healing Camp"-- 5 days of staying at a camp on the beach in tents or cabins with activities like kayaking, (whale watching), yoga, dancing, (African, Belly, Temple, Sufi), massage, playing with kids eating coconuts and good vegetarian food, and LOTS of Good Music! Acoustic durng the day, electric performances in the evenings, and music and drumming around the campfire all night. This Gathering is a yearly event; end of Jan,./beg. of Feb. and reasonably priced. This was my fourth year in a row going and I always have a lot of fun. Now that there's fresh "JC" with the release of BSN the NJC thing isn't so much of an issue. I was waiting to get my copy and get to know it before writing. To me, Joni is not background music; she is to be listened to. I usually don't totally "get it" at first listen, but what a treat to get comfortable with headphones and lyrics and treat myself to that "Joni Experience"! I knew I would LOVE BSN and I was right! I love jazz, blues and romance and I love Joni. I respect her and anything she chooses to share. I do a little deja vu when she sings, "when you smile, when you smile" on "At Last". I felt those tears of emotion well in my eyes on the final "you're in my blood like holy wine" in "A Case of You". (Does that count as a "God note"?) "Sometimes I'm Happy" makes me want to dance. I enjoy every song on this album, which I can't say for every album. When I listened to TTT for the first time I felt a little sad at how thin and weak her voice sounded in some places. But after getting to know it, I could feel the Joy in her voice and I heard it in a whole different light. I agree with Georgia O'Keefe--"she should live". Harper Lou, I acknowledge you for going through the uncomfortableness you've been experiencing in order to do something good for yourself, which in turn helps others.Let us know when you complete a tape of harp interpreta- tions of Joni's music--I'd love to hear it. I accidently discarded the post requesting friends for Ursula who broke her leg. If you send me her e-mail address I would like to write to her. It's 2:30 a.m. here, a beautiful big, bright moon, (at the window), and I'm going to bed. Good Night ! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:38:00 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: La Scala NJC I heard that if Joni does except the invitation to perform at La Scala in Milan, that Reprise Airlines has some special airfares for the JMDL. So book your flights early as there are a limited number of seats. Please note that Reprise Airlines may skip some cities ;~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:43:56 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Less Interesting ??????(md) In a message dated 2/16/2000 2:46:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, CarltonCT@aol.com writes: << David Lahm makes some interesting points about Joni's tunes which he feels are less interesting after Hejira. >> I cant believe that David Lahm doesnt think that Turbulent Indigo is "less interesting" than her pre-Hejira music. Same with some of the stuff on Taming the Tiger. Not all but some. Hejira is a great album but I dont light incense to it. Its certainly not the end of her creative evolution. David, please explain to the class. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:54:34 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, (md) In a message dated 2/16/2000 2:46:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, CarltonCT@aol.com writes: << After listening again to NRH as well as TI and TTT, there is a change of guitar style that begins with Hejira. The songs are not as elaborately picked, and many of them have lots of drones in the chords, particularly in the upper strings.>>>> This is the curse of the VG-8 IMHO. <<>> again the VG-8 works this way. I will add that Joni has abandoned the Piano to a great extent along with the Dulcimer so it seems that the music has taken on a "one approach" style. <<>> see above. The songs on TI and TTT are just as broad its just that they have all been done on the electrobox digital analog replicator. That is the fault of either the artist or the producer or both. >>>perhaps something that coincided with the gradual loss of Joni's upper register. >>>> No, it is the gradual loss if interest in going through all the trouble it took to figure out the arrangements using various acoustical instruments as opposed to pushing a button and changing all the tones. <<< STAS is still an amazing album I never grow tired of, >>> Me too. Some of those songs thrill me just as much after 30 years as they did the day I first heard them. >>>but it's very different from Hejira and the later work. The guitar stylings on the songs of STAS are so elaborate, as if they could be separate compositions for guitar instead of accompaniment to a song. >>>> excellent observation. <<<>>> Yesss. >>>> the droney dulcimer work of BLUE. >> Ill let Steve the Dulcitola wrestle with this comment.. Excellent post Carlton. Thanks for taking the time to write such a thought provoking piece. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 08:05:57 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Catching up..... Joseph said: <> Joseph, it does get busy when Joni puts out a new release and when she's on the road. Hang in there, it's manageable! <> Just saw in the paper that Janis is going to be in town playing at my favorite little club, The Handlebar. I definitely plan on catching it. Additionally announced today is a date for Richard Thompson in March downtown. Whoopee! <> I plan on picking this one up today along with the new Cure release, so I'll let you know what I think... <> I don't want to start a car thread, but we bought one Chrysler product back in '84 (Plymouth Turismo) and it was one clunky piece of shit! No more Chryslers for me! Bob NP: P.M. Dawn, "If I Wuz U" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 08:57:19 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: RE: Joni Rants Roberto said quite a while ago: >Joni: "Well, I was a musician >first, ever since I bought my first ukelele........) >IMHO, neither painting nor music was her first true love. It was the >power and beauty of words. But even when she talks about her albums, she >talks about herself mostly as a musical maverick. It's as if her first >and most potent gift is not to be dealt with in conversation..... Great observation. It reminds me of the story of her junior high teacher Mr. Kratzman, who recognized her poetic talents very early. It will be very interesting to see Joni's prose style when the memoirs finally come out. Although a multifaceted artist her strongest and most consistent gift has been storytelling. It's curious, now that you bring it up, why she never rates that talent up there with her painting and muscianship. It may come so easy to her that she doesn't really think about it. Like talking! ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:25:12 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: SIQUOMB For Erin and others who have asked about the meaning of SIQUOMB: This was taken from From Blue to Indigo (Part 1 of 4): Goldmine, February 17, 1995 (found on the JMDL site under "Articles") "Unlike nearly all aspiring songwriters, the Mitchells put their business together properly at the start. "The one thing I had was my own publishing company," Joni said. "Chuck and I set up two publishing companies. That was at his instigation. That was very insightful." Joni's company was called Siquomb Publishing, and the name came from one of her many writing projects. As she would explain on Philadelphia radio station WMMR in March 1967, she was writing a mythology, the names of its various members derived from acronyms based on descriptive phrases. There were, for instance, a race of miniature women, the Posall ("Perhaps Our Souls Are Little Ladies"), and men, the Mosalm ("Maybe Our Souls Are Little Men"). Siquomb was the queen of the mythology, her name meaning, "She Is Queen Undisputedly Of Mind Beauty." Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:31:29 +0200 From: JP Subject: BSN promo CD?, skipping Hi all, I just got a brief e-mail from my dj friend that he's got some kind of promo cd by Joni for me. I asked him recently to keep eyes open for any Joni stuff, so I'm hoping it's a track from BSN. Does anyone know of any promos around? I'm in Finland, so a promo would mean that Warner Europe is doing some kind of promotion. I will let you all know as I hear more from my friend. The CD proper should come out in February here. I've been reading about the defective CD's and I'm pretty sure it's a fault in the mastering that causes the problems. I've discussed the subject with my dj friend and as we both have hundreds of cd's in all kinds of condition, it's almost always the flawless-looking discs that skip. Scratches can cause jumping, especially if they are parallel to the grooves - - the kind of scratches portable players often make. Not the light marks from normal use. It's simply not very likely that so much skipping would 'concentrate' on BSN, even if the CD's are slightly scratched from being loose in the packaging. - --jussi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 15:53:38 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: House of the Rising Sun NJC Steve says: >The story in the folk community was that Dylan learned [House of the > >Rising sun] from Dave Van >Ronk, chord progression, picking pattern and all, and never >acknowledged >Dave for it. The bastard!!! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:07:26 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Unplugged and Jamming If I understand you rightly, you are a rare librarian. Didn't most librarians OPPOSE the copyright term extension bill and SUPPORT the unsuccessful challenge to that act's constitutionality in the suit filed last year by Eldritch, et al.? LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:11:25 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Please read, Sunflowers for Wally Is your name REALLY Chili? I thought it was just a handle! (I guess the post office would deliver it anyhow as long as you've got the right address and zip code, right? Maybe the US Postal Service can handle that, but our Canadian one often sends mail to the wrong house, despite the postal code - every now and then, we get mail for someone not too far off whose house number is 79, as ours is, but they're on a different street with a different postal code. If you can figure that one out, you're a better man than I, especially since I'm a woman!) I'll order some of them multi-coloured sunflowers BTW once I can get my ass over to a bank or post-office to get my loonies converted to US$. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:12:09 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Please read, Sunflowers for Wally Of course, that last idiotic post I just sent SHOULD have been labelled NJC. Too late now, so tough. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:13:49 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Went To Staten Island Hi Y'all! Buzzing around on a net Joni search last night I ran across this. Thought I'd share. Please forgive if it's been posted many times previously.....Penny I was listening the other day to Joni Mitchell's Hejira album, and I was struck by these lines in "Song for Sharon": "I went to Staten Island, Sharon / To buy myself a mandolin / And I saw the long white dress of love / On a store-front mannequin." Now, I've been listening to this album for years, but it just now occurred to me that these lyrics may refer to the Mandolin Brothers store in Staten Island. Is this the case? Did Joni Mitchell go buy a mandolin there sometime in the '70s? What did she buy? Am I crazy for even wondering about this stuff? (I'm deleting her name) Boston, Massachusetts Stan Jay, president of Mandolin Brothers, would like to assure you that you are not crazy, and that he has been asked this question many times over the years. Joni Mitchell did indeed make a trip to his store on Staten Island in 1976, where she bought a Gibson K-4 mandocello, built around 1915. It is a large (guitar-sized) version of the Gibson F-4 mandolin and is tuned C G D A, one octave below a mandola. On the same trip, she also bought a circa 1915 Martin 000-28 herringbone guitar. It was during the ferry ride back to New York City from Staten Island that she began writing "Song for Sharon." - --Bronwen Morgan :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:26:07 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Great Quotations Also on my net Joni search last night, I found this on a page of "great quotations" under the category of confession. "There are things to confess that enrich the world, and things that need not be said." Joni Mitchell Have a great weekend everyone! Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:26:49 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: new to list Marian, the linguist, informs us: >Joni pronounces it "heh jeer' ruh". The dictionary gives two >pronunciations: "hi-ji'-(like gyrate) ruh" ("uh" = that backwards >"e") You mean the upside down "e" - it's called a "schwa". It's that neutral "uh" kind of sound as in "the". Don't ask me how it got to be called a "schwa" but the goofballs in my family get off on stupid stuff like that and we'd always crack up on hearing the word "schwa" (no, we didn't get out much, and that's probably not a bad thing!) Just a bit of useless information for a snowy Friday afternoon (it is now 12:26 p.m. Eastern Standard Time!) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:27:23 GMT From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: hejira Hello I am sure it's pronounced 'hedge-ear-ah' , but like, really quickly! In PWWAM she pronounces it that way some people mispronounce it as hedge eye ra which is totally wrong. It's a muslim word and I am a muslim so I should know. :-) Sometimes people stress the hedge, sometimes its the ear. All the best and much Joni Jamie Zoob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:29:43 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: update from reprise Interesting that they claim it's a "small" number - judging from what people here are saying, at least half seem to be damaged. I don't know much about odds, but it seems curious that most of the people on this list who ordered it and have now rec'd it are the ones who got the damaged goods. Makes you wonder whether or not they have jmdlers pegged as being suckahs enough to take that? Nah, I'm just paranoid - but glad I cancelled my order before it was shipped - I just couldn't TAKE that kind of disappointment. I'm just gonna wait for the regular edition... Deb wrote: Here's the scoop on damaged disks. I assume from the context that you can return the disk only and keep the box and lithos. It appears that, due to assembly error, a small number of CD's in the Joni Mitchell "Both Sides Now" Limited Edition package may have become scratched. We apologize for any inconvenience and will gladly replace any damaged disc. Please send the damaged disc along with your name and mailing address to Warner Bros. Records Quality Assurance, 3300 Warner Blvd., Burbank, CA 91505 or call (818) 953-3208. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:34:10 EST From: NathanLaFraneer@aol.com Subject: SJC: My Story and Intro As I am new to this list, I thought I'd just share briefly how I got into Joni. I think it's neat when we all share stories and the like. (Do I just sound way too perky?) Anyhow, to start out with, I am a 28 year old gay guy in library school at Rutgers in New Jersey. (That was for demographic purposes.) But I first was introduced to Joni around 1991 when I bought Bonnie Raitt's "Streetlights" album where she covers, That Song About the Midway. I was an undergrad at UMASS/Amherst at the time. People always told me that I'd like Joni, but I fought them on it. I am a stubborn soul, attributed to my stubborn North Carolina dad, even though I am a New Englander by birth and upbringing. Well, it wasn't until 1994 when this clubgoing, hip Latino gay guy that I worked with told me about Joni, and let me borrow Court and Spark. I was a bit skeptical, but I actually found that the CD really wasn't all that bad. In fact, it was a bit enjoyable. I am also a Judy Collins fan, so I was curious to hear how Joni's version of Both Sides Now compared to Judy's. I consider a sunny May day in 1994 to be the real watermark day. I was in my old college town of Amherst, MA see the last of my friends graduate from the University. I went into a record store (the same one I had bought Streetlights in three years before) and bought Clouds. I will never forget where I was that first moment the opening chords of Tin Angel came over the car stereo. Mournful, haunting, beautiful...life changing. And ever since then, well, heck... I have been hooked. I think I like Joni so much because I tend to say, "she knows what we're all thinking and feeling...Joni just GETS it." I love the fact that there are listservs like this out there. Too many hip, gay guys my age only want throbbing techno beats and roll their eyes when I say I love Joni ... in a condescending way to let me know that they feel she is "irrelevant" in a world dominated by beats and not lyrics. Joni keeps me grounded, she keeps me bonded to the mystical world, the hippie world (she still has a wonderful earthy streak in her ... much appreciated) as well as to my inner world of emotions and feelings and sorrow. (She makes it okay to grieve.) This may sound really odd, especially coming from such a youngster like me, but there is just something about her. I go thru phases where I listen to some albums more than others. When I am feeling like dancing, I'll play DJRD, when I need mellow and lovely, I play HEJ, and when I want to transcend, I burn incense, turn on my Lava Lamp, and play STAS and imagine what it would be like to have bought this album in 1968 and not realizing it was a doorway into one of the greatest contemporary musicians (IMHO) of the late 20th century. If ya saw me, you'd all laugh as I look so staid and conservative. Anyhow, I think I've said enough, have a great weekend all. ED ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:38:07 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: more on Joni's earlier melodies Marcel asked for an explanation from David Lahm about Joni's earlier melodies, but here are my thoughts about why I think the early ones are more intriguing, especially to a jazz musician or a composer. As with everything Joni, she always changes, and there is always "something lost but something gained", but I would agree with D. Lahm that Joni's melodies in her early career are more elaborate, cover a couple of octaves, have longer sustained notes and more complexity even if their rhythms are not as complex as the later work. I think it's because of the way Joni actually composed them which was to create a composition on the guitar that was interesting in and of itself and then find a melody (and words even!) to play against it that was sometimes contrapuntal, sometimes in unison, sometimes something else. The best example would be "Song to a Seagull" which is very hard to play and sing at the same time, but a wonderfully unexpected melody. I loved Hejira when it came out which was in one way a return to her roots, and in another way, a closer embrace of jazz, but overall it was the beginning of a style that was heard again in NRH, TI and TTT. The songs of the later albums may have been shorter, but the types of melodies played, chord structures and how they are strummed/picked I think are fairly similar. - - Clark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:41:47 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Rainbow's Rambling (some JC) Rainbow Crystal - good to hear from you. You really DO live in paradise, don't you? Man, am I jealous! It's snowing here, but the good news is, it seems that what was going to be a "major snow storm" is probably not going to be much more than a regular old dump. You wrote: >When I listened to TTT for the first time I felt >a little sad at how thin and weak her voice sounded in some places. >But >after gettingto know it, I could feel the Joy in her voice >and I heard it in a whole different light. I >agree with Georgia O'Keefe--"she should live". You've expressed very well how Joni's singing affects me as well, esp. recently and more especially on TTT. I had the same impression when I first heard it - I was kind of disappointed. Her voice at first listen sounded weak, thin, rather devoid of expression, and the arrangements all sounded very spare. The only song I liked on first listen was "Man from Mars". I hated "Harlem in Havana" first time I heard it and wondered, "what the hell was that anyway?" But often my brain will replay something in my head and, as I listen to it in my head, it will start to make sense, then I'll find myself craving it (kinda like those weird little Chinese dim-sum sesame balls with mushed-up beans inside, ever tried one of those? The first time I ate one, I thought, "Hmm, this is weird - I don't know if I like it or not, but it sure is different". A few days later, I "remembered" the taste and I just HAD to have one again - in fact, I think I'm gonna head out into the snow and have one NOW). The same thing happened with TTT - there was a delayed-reaction happening somewhere in the backrooms of my brain. It was replaying bits and hissing at me: *listen to it again, you fool!* Then I had to find out if what I was hearing in my brain made sense in relation to the actual CD. (It did!) And with each listen, it got better. Now H in H is one of my favourites. To me, the "spareness" of the arrangements are now one of the things I like best about TTT. There's more in there than first meets the ear. I don't think there are too many people I would give that second and third chance too, but Joni, yup, always, God bless 'er! (Can't wait until the regular el-cheapo edition of BSN arrives so I can git me one of them!) But first, my sesame ball is calling! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:43:14 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: La Scala NJC Jimmy wrote: >I heard that if Joni does except the invitation to perform at La >Scala in >Milan, that Reprise Airlines has some special airfares for >the JMDL. So >book your flights early as there are a limited number >of seats. Please >note that Reprise Airlines may skip some cities ;~) Oh man, you had me going there for a minute! I had the receiver picked up and everything! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:05:14 -0700 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: hejira fyi: hejira (pronounced hedge -eer--ah) is also a navajo word -- meaning spiritual journey. alison e in slc. - ---------- >From: "Jamie Zubairi" >To: stoyem@notes.cba.ufl.edu, joni@smoe.org >Subject: hejira >Date: Fri, Feb 18, 2000, 10:27 AM > >Hello > >I am sure it's pronounced 'hedge-ear-ah' , but like, really quickly! In >PWWAM she pronounces it that way some people mispronounce it as hedge eye ra >which is totally wrong. It's a muslim word and I am a muslim so I should >know. :-) > >Sometimes people stress the hedge, sometimes its the ear. > >All the best and much Joni > >Jamie Zoob >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:55:08 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, (md) - now VG-8 vs other instruments CarltonCT@aol.com writes: << After listening again to NRH as well as TI and TTT, there is a change of guitar style that begins with Hejira. The songs are not as elaborately picked, and many of them have lots of drones in the chords, particularly in the upper strings.>>>> Marcel responded: >This is the curse of the VG-8 IMHO. Doesn't Joni's post-polio syndrome play a big role in this? Can she still play the piano, or has she lost some mobility in her fingers? When she sings "I went so numb on Christmas Day, i couldn't feel my hands or feet", is that an emotional state, or is some of it literal and figurative? I understand that PPS emulates to a large part other conditions such as chronic fatigue syndrome and/or environmental hypersensitivity, chronic myalgia and a number of other syndromes that have similar, but often hard-to-define symptoms. She may be finding a way to cope with what is ultimately a disabling condition. I'd LOVE to hear her playing piano, acoustic guitar and dulcimer again, but I wonder whether she can handle it now physically? If the VG-8 was just a new toy to her, i don't think she's be playing it almost (if not totally) exclusively, would she? Does anyone know where one could get a decent dulcimer? I'd really love to get my paws on one. And if anyone could point me to suggestions as to acoustic vs electric vs acoustic-electric guitar, I'd really appreciate that. I currently have a classical guitar, which is what I've been studying recently. As far as non-classical, I taught myself before I started studying classical guitar. I'd like to get back into some of the non-classical stuff and would like to buy a second guitar to use for this (also, so I can use some of the alternate tunings, because I don't like having to re-tune my classical guitar all the time - partly due to laziness, but also due to fear of wrecking the strings; and partly because if I change guitars, I'm hoping I can switch my mind back and forth between classical and non-classical styles - - right now, I'm having difficulty doing that. I cant' seem to play in a non-classical style anymore. I'm kinda leaning toward the electric/acoustic thing right now (I've always been a fence-sitter!) because I love the vibe of acoustic but sometimes think I'd like to try electric just for the helluvit and acoustic/electric seems like a happy medium. I'll start checking out the good guitar shops and probably won't actually buy anything for at least 6 months, but if anyone can provide any feedback on what direction to go in (I don't think it's gonna be a Roland VG-8!), I'd certainly appreciate it. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:59:26 EST From: NathanLaFraneer@aol.com Subject: Re: Rainbow's Rambling (some JC) I have to agree ... when I first heard TTT, I just shook my head, and thought, "Oh, this is too sad." I heard a friend's copy, so I actually went an entire year and a half without ever getting a copy. Now, I appreciate that album a lot, I love the instrumentation in Man from Mars, and I even get a kick out of "Lead Balloon" (Although, for that song, I must admit it's more for the lyrics than the actual tune.) Also, for me as with any Joni album, part of the thrill is the artwork included. TTT has some great great paintings...I think it is a bit hard to divorce Joni's paintings from her music as they all come from that place within her, so they are complementary. (By the way, has anybody heard about the coffee table book that is supposed to include all of her artwork... I think we Joni fans deserve that after the nasty trick Hyperion pulled with The Complete Lyrics and Poems...what a gyp!!!) Anyhow, in retrospect, TTT is not my favorite Joni, but is definitely a very enjoyable album. Now, I just have to learn to like DED. ED ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 18:49:10 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: SJC: My Story and Intro Nathan/Ed wrote: >As I am new to this list, I thought I'd just share briefly how I got >into >Joni. I think it's neat when we all share stories and the like. (Do >I >just >sound way too perky?) Welcome Nathan/Ed. No, you don't sound *too* perky. I'd have a hard time understanding it if anyone who liked Joni and her music *didn't* like stories. Joni is one of the greatest story-tellers I've ever encountered, whether she's singing or talking. I'd love to sit around her kitchen table and have a few beers, wouldn't you? Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 18:57:18 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Joni Rants - now NJC Sue writes: >It reminds me of the story of her junior high teacher >Mr. Kratzman, who recognized her poetic talents very early. It will >be >very interesting to see Joni's prose style when the memoirs >finally come >out. Having had a few dealings of late with my kids' teachers, and hearing this story about Joni and Mr K, it reminds me of how a teacher can often make or break a kid. We've probably all had one or two teachers who really stood out as being really great or really terrible. If you have a really positive experience with a teacher, it can have a profound effect on the rest of your life, really. I've had a couple - one was my Grade 10 geography teacher, Mrs. Gorski. She spoke with a Polish/Scottish accent (I kid you not!) She was such an interesting person - she could relate all kinds of things together, rather than just teaching dry facts. She made geography SO interesting that I decided to keep taking it in Grade 11, then ended up with a really crappy teacher who irritate me so much that I dropped geography and never took it again. I also had an amazing French prof in university named Derrick de Kerkhov (sp? I don't remember!) He would often go off on tangents that had absolutely NOTHING to do with what we were supposed to be studying, but man, he made you THINK! and to me, this is what teaching is supposed to be about - - make the student eager to learn more about anything. (I'll shut up now until next week - what is my problem today? I can't seem to stop blabbing!) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:30:30 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: SJC: My Story and Intro > Too many hip, > gay guys my age only want throbbing techno beats and roll their eyes when I > say I love Joni ... in a condescending way to let me know that they feel she > is "irrelevant" in a world dominated by beats and not lyrics. Come across that attitude loads of times. I happen to like both and always have.welcome ed. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:40:37 -0500 From: Linda Worster Subject: Re: Rainbow's Rambling (some JC) Welcome Ed! who said: > Now, I just have to learn to like DED. LOL Here's a discussion that has come around many times on the JMDL! Personally, DED is one of my favs. But opinions around here run the gamut! Linda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:40:49 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni Unplugged and Jamming While this is true (and I am a songwriter, too), people who buy bootlegs 9 times out of 10 already have everything that artist has put out, and still want more. I don't think bootlegs are a hugely evil thing. We've all heard the BBC tapes, most of us due to bootlegs. A much bigger problem and ripoff are counterfeit copies of legitimate releases, the knockoffs you see at flea markets and on streetcorners for $5. These definately and inarguably eat into an artists income. When somebody pays $25 for a bootleg, they are not choosing that over a legitimate release, usually. RR Dflahm@aol.com wrote: > > Thank you, Jerry, for your observation that artists and rightsholders are not > compensated as they should be in the case of a bootleg. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:52:05 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: BSN promo CD?, skipping JP wrote: > > Hi all, >> I've been reading about the defective CD's and I'm pretty sure it's a fault > in the mastering that causes the problems. I've discussed the subject with > my dj friend and as we both have hundreds of cd's in all kinds of > condition, it's almost always the flawless-looking discs that skip. > Scratches can cause jumping, especially if they are parallel to the grooves The CD's skip because they are scratched, and not lightly. Mastering does not cause scratches. I see skipping problems often at the radio station I am involved with due to scratches. I think skipping due to mastering is pretty rare. I have 1000 CD's and none of them have that problem. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 15:03:54 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: Performing Songwriter list ---- Where's Joni??? here is the response from performing songwriter. maybe i was a bit hasty. Joni's coming up later this year once the interview is nailed. And it's pretty clear that those were Ruth's picks -- the other editor's will be having their own picks in the other 7 issues this year. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:08:06 -0500 From: "Loren Carter" Subject: Re: Critics and Philosophers (SJC) Kakki, Ah, Freddie......his thoughts of a Superman had me thinking way back when. My favorite Nietzsche guote is: "No one gives birth because giving birth is fun. It makes poets and chickens cluck." Sorry if it's not exactly correct. It's been a long time since High School and college days. Who would you all imagine is our Ms. Joni's favorite philosopher, and why? Confucious with his one line words of wisdom that say so much? Kant, Hegel, Smith, Freddie Nietzsche, Adam Smith, or someone more current (Casey Stengel ;-) ), or does she encompass her own? Loren..... WSAWP (wish something, anything were playing)...just the tapping of computer keys, phones ringing, muted conversations, laughter (it is payday after all, and I wanna be out playing in the new show and ice) "Kakki" on 02/17/2000 04:45:25 PM Please respond to "Kakki" To: joni@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Loren Carter/Maryland/United_States/Sylvan Learning Systems/US) Subject: Re: Critics Found an interesting quote from Nietzsche (the philosopher, not the cat) today- "Insects sting, not in malice, but because they want to live. It is the same with critics; they desire our blood, not our pain." And from Samuel Butler - "The test of a good critic is whether he knows when and how to believe on insufficient evidence" Kakki NP: Joni - Comes Love ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:21:39 -0600 (CST) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Beat of Hip Queens (SJC) Welcome Ed! You raised many subjects near to my heart. As someone who likes to think of himself as hip, and definitely identifies as a gay guy (though I prefer fag, but that's another thread that's appeared about 1000 times), I have to throw in my words... Luv luv luv me some beats. One of the best things about moving back to Chicago for me was re-discovering the incredible depth and breadth of the house music scene here in its birthplace. Though hip-hop is still my favorite "urban" music, I had forgotten just how good house could be when divorced from the same-lame-dame remixes ala Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston we have a problem. House is very important to me both as a Chicago-lover and a faggot, and the resurgence of it in the past year or so (Basement Jaxx, EBTG, Cassius, etc.) has been a boon. I love it I love it I love it. BUT There's more to the music world than house. And all these circuit queens (who are *not* hip in my book) who only listen to their damn White Party CDs ad nauseum drive me as batty as the folks whose dial never leaves adult contemporary or smooth jazz or top 40 or even fucking NPR. (Especially because circuit house is inferior, but I digress. Note to the straight folks: the "circuit" is this weird gay phenomenon of self-appointed elite parties in different cities around the world. I could take up pages explaining it, but I won't.) ANYWAY If and when I ever acquire any DJ/remixing/producing skills I would LOVE to bring other forms of music into house. One of my dreams is to spin nights in tribute to artists I love, sometimes remixing entire songs into warehouse anthems, sometimes just sampling underappreciated sounds from the artists' work to highlight the richness of it. Everyone from Lauryn Hill to Joan Armatrading to Mary J. Blige (I have a thing for black women: c.f. "I am a faggot" above) to even Bob Dylan and Radiohead has crossed my mind as having great raw material in their oeuvre for this kind of thing. And my piece de resistance (in my mind, anyway) would be Joni. Take, for example, the guitar chord progressions in the chorus of "Cold Blue Steel." Can you imagine what could be done with those and an 808?! Or the bass clarinet glissando from the same song. Sounds begging to be reimagined for the dance floor (not to mention the rich irony of a song about the dangers of drugs played to a crowd tweaking on ecstasy, special K, GHB, coke, etc. etc. etc.). You could throw much of "Tenth World" right onto the decks without altering it for a little tribal break. "Dreamland," "Black Crow," "Slouching Towards Bethlehem," and "I Had a King" all have remix potential, as do many others. I've even pondered the potential greatness of combining "Little Green" ("be a gypsy dancer / gypsy dancer / gypsy dancer" over flamenco guitars) with Lauryn's "To Zion" for an all-out kid-focused rave-up. The two very different perspectives on childbirth would provide lyrical depth for those who were paying attention (and Everything But the Girl have proven that both intelligence and melancholy can work on the dancefloor). There are tons tons tons of cool sounds throughout her recordings that could be brought into a dance context. Which reminds me: when the thread of Madonna covering Joni came up last, I suggested a cover of "Down to You" reminiscent of Maddies' reworking of Marvin Gaye's "I Want You" with Massive Attack, as well as a house remake of "Black Crow." I still think those are excellent choices. I also like DED. - --Michael, relishing his 15 minutes of freetime just a bit too much P.S. to Patrick: expect something you love in your mailbox soon with all apologies... - ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Desire no more what you already possess. You are already free." - --Me'Shell NdegeOcello, "God Shiva" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 21:28:34 +0100 From: Marian Subject: Re: new to list (NJC) Catherine McKay wrote: >Marian, the linguist, wrote: >>Joni pronounces it "heh jeer' ruh". The dictionary >>gives two pronunciations: "hi-ji'-(like gyrate) ruh" >>("uh" = that backwards "e") > You mean the upside down "e" - it's called a "schwa". It's that neutral "uh" > kind of sound as in "the". Thanks for explaining what that is! But, if I were truly a linguist, I would have known that already. :^D Marian (ready for a week of skiing in the Alps) Vienna NP: Aphrodite - JMDL's very own Victor (gorgeous music!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:46:40 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Diltz TV Special Update Here is the latest information regarding the special on The Learning Channel next Friday. ************* Greetings from Henry's Gallery. Our TV special is complete and will air Saturday night, February 26th on TLC (The Learning Channel) at 9:00 PM eastern and pacific. To find out more info go to our site > http://www.henrysgallery.com and there you can get a rundown of the shows contents and we have linked to the filmmakers site where you can check out some mpeg clips of the show. A lot of you have been asking about our 90 minute video and DVD which is a longer version of the TV show and all I can say right now is that it will not be available before April 1st. We are still in the process of lining up a retail distributor although we plan to have it available on our site as well. (Summary of show's contents as described on the website:) Act One - How Henry and Gary met. Mama Cass introduces them to The Mamas and the Papas and Crosby, Stills & Nash. Henry and Gary shoot CSN's first LP cover at the old house in L.A. and then up to Big Bear with the band and Joni Mitchell. Act Two: Take a trip to Laurel Canyon and and on to a party in Venice where the Eagles played (they didn't even have a name then). On to Joni Mitchell's very fine house and then to the Morrison Hotel with the Doors...Big surprise here. Act Three: Visit with Jackson Browne as he tells us about the first album cover session and then travel to Stephen Stills' house to talk about Deja Vu. Travel with the Eagles to do their first album cover with Henry and Gary in the California Desert. Take an amazing flight with Henry and Jimmy Webb and then go camping with America. Experience the Eagles Desperado album shoot with rare film and photos. All this and much much more. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #101 ***************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?