From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #100 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, February 18 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 100 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: BOTH SIDES NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!! [Louis Lynch ] Re: BSN Packaging [Johnwe2@aol.com] Re: Performing Songwriter list ---- Where's Joni??? ["lpeakes" ] Re: BSN Lithos. How Many In The Package? 3 or 4? ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: Just got it this week [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: The new album: A Latecomer NJC ["H.D. Motyl" ] what is STAS??!?!?! [Joseph Davis ] AAAAAAHHHHHHHH! [Joseph Davis ] Re: what is STAS??!?!?! [catman ] House of the Rising Sun NJC [Steve Dulson ] Re: Wynonna sings "Help Me"! and CD NOW Returns [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] madonna, BSN package/impressions [BarBearUh ] Please read, Sunflowers for Wally [Chilihead2@aol.com] Catching up..... [Bounced Message ] Re: Please read, Sunflowers for Wally [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Joni Unplugged and Jamming [Dflahm@aol.com] BSN: Another tale of woe [evian ] BSN all track snippets [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:13:04 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: BOTH SIDES NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!! Realizing that it's been almost two months without a cigarette while Joni Mitchell chain smokes and still sounds great, Harper Lou answers Mark Domyancich's musical question.... Actually, Mark, you're pretty much right. Joni Mitchell's singing on Mingus (especially "Dry Cleaner") is out of the world. And you make some very cogent and incisive points. But so what? You can't be 100% right because it was my idea in the first place, so nyah, nyah, nyah. And besides that, you're a homophobic racist _____ Jonatha-listening NJC-writer, too! And that blank line, there, well you can just fill it in yourself, buster, because I don't see why should I waste MY time trying to think up names to call YOU! Oh, and the nicotine withdrawal is going just fine, thank you, so just pass the potato chips, then shut up and sit down, now. Because I'm feeling really grouchy and I'm not one to be argued with today unless you like the sound of your own bones breaking, Love and firebombs, Harper Lou At 7:21 AM -0800 2/17/00, Louis Lynch wrote: >And as far as Joni's voice, I wish I could sing one iota as well as she >does. Her voice always has been beautiful, and it gets more beautiful every >year. She's singing jazz even better than she did on Mingus, despite the >smoking. I disagree. Joni's singing on Mingus is so much better than it is on BSN (yes, I have listened to it). I think her singing on Mingus is better because she had control over all of the singing, and she wasn't singing something that someone had previously written. Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:25:28 -0800 (PST) From: JJM Subject: Just got it this week Well, this is my second post in a 6 month period of time. I just got the new CD from Wherehouse Music in impeccable condition. I really was very impressed. I was expecting Joni's voice and a contemporary sound, but actually, there is a wonderful Joni accent on the instrumentation. It makes me feel like the old tunes were flavored with her alternate tunings!! I loved it because she does a fantastic job and putting her own stamp to the classics. As far as her voice goes, I don't understand the fuss. She has so much talent in so many other ways as a musician and artist, why would anyone want to focus on where her voice has gone in the past 10 years or more? Yes, we notice when there is a change, but we overlook the minor stuff when we're talking about a true artist, don't we? - -Juliette. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:48:56 EST From: Johnwe2@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN Packaging I too, am less than thrilled with the packaging, but love the album. Although the paintings are ok, I would rather see photos of the recording sessions, etc. Also a torch singer type photo would have really fit the bill for the cover and illustrated cd. A while back, Anita Baker had a limited edition CD that looked like the old 78's, kind of bound like a book, with the brown paper sleeve for the CD to slip into. Something like that would have been really cool, and also more practical. Next time JM puts out a limited edition, I hope the JMDL has final say on any packaging...I know wishful thinking :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:51:48 -0500 From: "lpeakes" Subject: Re: Performing Songwriter list ---- Where's Joni??? Dude - that list was just one issue's worth - looks like they're doing it with different editors - Joni's bound to be in one of the issues this year - I noticed this list gave a nod to a lot of women in the industry - it takes a lot of people to put out a song (Joni Mitchell's been known to cast a jaundiced eye toward the factory-like-assembly line aspects of "the star-maker machinery") Thanks for the address - filled out the survey (with Joni tops on the list) - I also mentioned Meredith Monk, Carla Bley, Dinah Washington, & June Tabor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:03:50 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: BSN Lithos. How Many In The Package? 3 or 4? How many Lithographs is everyone getting? The Reprise site shows four but I only found three when I opened my CD now package. One of the Lithographs has two big spots.....what looks like glue marks. (?) The inside black round part is ratty looking and torn. Part of it looks like it was sliced with a knife. Anyone else's? The CD does have a few scratches. Not too bad looking tho........I haven't played it yet. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:06:45 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Joni Unplugged and Jamming I recently bought a CD from Ebay called "Joni Mitchell Unplugged and Jamming Volume 3" It is a compilation of several events... A BBC studio appearance from 1970 with James Taylor: That Song About the Midway, The Gallery, Rainy Day Man and Steamroller (James Taylor), The Priest, Carey, Carolina on My Mind (JT), California, For Free (duet with JT), Circle Game (duet with JT) You Can Close Your Eyes (duet with JT) Mariposa Folk, Festival 1969: Night In The City, Both Sides Now and Chelsea Morning FolkloreTV 1970: A Case of You At times the quality is not too good (Night in the City-Mariposa) but overall it's a really good CD. What I'm wondering is whether this is a bootleg? If it is it's really well-done and a fabulous addition to my collection. Cassy NP: Tim Buckley "Greetings From L.A." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:08 PST From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: BSN Lithos. How Many In The Package? 3 or 4? Laura wrote: >How many Lithographs is everyone getting? >The Reprise site shows four but I only found >three when I opened my CD now package. >One of the Lithographs has two big spots.....what >looks like glue marks. (?) >The inside black round part is ratty looking >and torn. Part of it looks like it was sliced >with a knife. Anyone else's? Laura, Run (don't walk) to the Post Office and send it back. I'm not a send-it-back kind of person. I don't complain about the food in restaraunts. I don't bitch at the movies when the sound goes out. I'm pretty easy going. But, this really is getting out of hand. It seems like every time Joni releases an album, there is some cosmic SNAFU that screws her up. I bet she's gonna be Pissed when she finds out about all of this. Don't keep it. Its broken. $50 is too much to blow on poorly manufactured crap. Copy the CD, though, so you can listen to it until the new one comes. Reuben ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:29:39 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni Unplugged and Jamming cassy wrote: > I recently bought a CD from Ebay called "Joni Mitchell Unplugged and Jamming > Volume 3" It is a compilation of several events... > > A BBC studio appearance from 1970 with James Taylor: That Song About the > Midway, The Gallery, Rainy Day Man and Steamroller (James Taylor), The > Priest, Carey, Carolina on My Mind (JT), California, For Free (duet with > JT), Circle Game (duet with JT) You Can Close Your Eyes (duet with JT) > > Mariposa Folk, Festival 1969: Night In The City, Both Sides Now and Chelsea > Morning > > FolkloreTV 1970: A Case of You > > At times the quality is not too good (Night in the City-Mariposa) but > overall it's a really good CD. What I'm wondering is whether this is a > bootleg? If it is it's really well-done and a fabulous addition to my > collection. Yes, Cassy, this is a bootleg and should not be offered for sale on ebay. Resales of legitimately released cd's, where the artist has already been compensated, is another matter. Jerry np: Maura O'Connell - A Real Life Story ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:45:25 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Critics Found an interesting quote from Nietzsche (the philosopher, not the cat) today- "Insects sting, not in malice, but because they want to live. It is the same with critics; they desire our blood, not our pain." And from Samuel Butler - "The test of a good critic is whether he knows when and how to believe on insufficient evidence" Kakki NP: Joni - Comes Love ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:52:33 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Just got it this week In a message dated 2/17/00 1:27:43 PM US Central Standard Time, tiaj99@yahoo.com writes: << She has so much talent in so many other ways as a musician and artist, why would anyone want to focus on where her voice has gone in the past 10 years or more? Yes, we notice when there is a change, but we overlook the minor stuff when we're talking about a true artist, don't we? >> But, Juliette, on BSN all she's giving us is VOICE. On her previous releases you could dwell on her playing or her songs, but here we're getting no new songs so there's nothing to analyze there. So what's left to discuss is her voice. Bob, enjoying BSN but still holding out for new songs... NP: Days of the New, "Weapon & The Wound" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:43:07 -0800 (PST) From: "H.D. Motyl" Subject: Re: The new album: A Latecomer NJC - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/16/00 5:48:46 PM US Central > Standard Time, > howard_scptv@yahoo.com writes: > > << One CD+Four postcards+43 bucks= one pissed off > customer >> > > Howard, your math seems to be in error. Shouldn't it > be MINUS 43 bucks? :~) > > Bob > > NP: The Roots, "The Spark" > See, I was so pissed off, I couldn't even do the math right. Howard M ===== Howard Motyl Director Creative Development SCPTV Worldwide 400 North May Street Suite 201 Chicago, Illinois 60622 312.421.7711 312.421.7714 Fax __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:54:12 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Wynonna sings "Help Me"! and CD NOW Returns From: "Happy The Man" Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:00:40 -0600 I was kicking around a music store and "Help Me" comes on but couldn't figure out who the singer was. Wynonna on her new album. Which bugs me because she doesn't really do anything to make it Wynonna's version. I was returning for the second time my copy of "Both Sides Now" to CD Now or whenever we ship it to you. Both were scratched so I sought long and hard for a phone number. Immediately I was put on hold only to listen to some dude singing "Comes Love". Dude are the stars aligned or are my hemorrhoids acting up. Peace, Craig NR: Sun also rises - Hemmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:54:46 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: In The Same Vein... Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:43:06 -0800 (PST) From: mystery touch Slightly off topic, but with BSN ringing in our ears, I thought I'd point out another release along the same lines that I enjoy. If Joni was my "music queen" of the century, Bryan Ferry was my king... and late last year, he released an album entitled "As Time Goes By." All the material chosen for the release is 1930s stuff, and the arrangements and performances are superb. Bryan did a very fine job of allowing the songs to breathe a bit; the vocal style is very different for him, and I can't tell if it's simply the natural aging process or if he's mimicking the vocal style of the era he pays tribute to. No matter... in either instance, I truly enjoyed this album. I'd guess many here will as well. Regards to all! Craig ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:59:21 -0600 From: Joseph Davis Subject: what is STAS??!?!?! I've gone through her catalog, and STILL haven't figgered out what STAS stands for? HELP ME!! (no, I'm not falling) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:23:16 -0600 From: Joseph Davis Subject: AAAAAAHHHHHHHH! okay - thanks to all who answered that question for me! NOW, I can go gym it up in peace! hehehehehe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 00:24:47 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: what is STAS??!?!?! Song To A Seagull-the name of her first album. Tho there are those that think her first album is eponymous. Joseph Davis wrote: > I've gone through her catalog, and STILL haven't figgered out what > STAS stands for? HELP ME!! (no, I'm not falling) - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:02:33 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: House of the Rising Sun NJC w evans wrote: >It's a very old song, but the Animals almost certainly learned it from Bob >Dylan's first album in 1961 (released in early 1962.) Where did Bob learn >it from? I don't know The story in the folk community was that Dylan learned it from Dave Van Ronk, chord progression, picking pattern and all, and never acknowledged Dave for it. ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ (Website under construction!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:05:45 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Wynonna sings "Help Me"! and CD NOW Returns Craig said: << I was kicking around a music store and "Help Me" comes on but couldn't figure out who the singer was. Wynonna on her new album. Which bugs me because she doesn't really do anything to make it Wynonna's version. >> Well, we can all pass judgement before too long as this will be going on the covers collection I'm working on. Thanks Laura the coupon queen for this one! Bob NP: They Might Be Giants, "Chess Piece Face" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:21:15 -0500 From: BarBearUh Subject: madonna, BSN package/impressions couldn't resist this thing on madonna, who i have vehemently detested throughout her entire career until 'ray of light', which shows many rays of a promising future. she'll never come close to the depth and complexity of a joni lyric, but she's trying at least. if nothing else, her voice has gotten a lot better. anyhow, i digress... i think "number one" would be the perfect madonna cover, and would give it a great sense of irony. it almost seems sacrilegious for me to admit this, but i think she could do a nice job on "sweet bird", seeing how she's all into buddhism these days ;-). Mark D. wrote: > I disagree. Joni's singing on Mingus is so much better than it is on > BSN (yes, I have listened to it). I think her singing on Mingus is > better because she had control over all of the singing, and she > wasn't singing something that someone had previously written. complete agreement! i think her singing on mingus is the absolute best it ever was has been will be. it's a brave album that i like a lot; it'll never be my favorite, but i think it's a great great achievement. on that record, her instrument is as controlled and refined as it ever got before the cigarette damage kicked in. which leads me to BSN. i'm a little reluctant to review it quite yet 'cause i've only had a few listens, but it could be another month or two before i post again, so i might as well be obnoxious enough to forge ahead.... the packaging thing is rather disgraceful. i think the packaging is nice, but worth $25, not $45. "lithographs"???? pullleaase. if you're gonna print 'em like they're standard postcards, they at least ought to be big enough "to frame". the paintings are competent, but i think joni should think twice about quitting her day job (not that she need worry about her financial future). if she just took the time out of her day that she spends complaining about the record business and applied it to her passion, she could probably be a better painter. i just adore the song "both sides now". the original version is just simply out of my range - i don't like the high girly voice and i no longer appreciate the innocence of it. coming from this mature voice and this more worldly perspective, it just bowls me over. i'm still on the fence about "case of you" - the melody is so addictive, but i miss some of the innocence and rebellion of the original there. the covers are all over the place for me. sometimes i find the orchestration way too over the top and outdated. they're very nelson riddle, but she isn't frank sinatra and can't come up with the chops that compete with it. i want to use the word competent again. it's a very skillful album (and i certainly think it runs rings around TTT), but if i compare her covers to someone like betty carter or cassandra wilson or ella fitzgerald or frank sinatra i just can't say that she's bringing anything new or fresh to the form. it's lovely to hear joni singing this stuff, no doubt i can dig it; it's just in the big picture it seems little more than a blip on the screen. it adds depth to her career, but not to the form. i enjoy it when i play it, but it don't hold a candle to the genius of all the albums from "blue" through "turbulent indigo". barbara np: bruce cockburn, breakfast in N.O. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:42:53 EST From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: Please read, Sunflowers for Wally As this pertains to Wally's site I have chosen not to restrict it to the NJC list. If anyone sends Mrs. Chili and me 4.00 US dollars plus a stamped self addressed envelope (needs 66 cents US postage or international postage to get a 2.5oz letter to you if you're outside the US), we will send you a very special packet of sunflower seeds all set for planting this spring. The entire $4.00 will be donated to Wally's friend Jim to help run the site. This is a special packet of Sunflower seed made from a mix of rare and heirloom seeds as well as common but beautiful varieties. We call it our Millennium mix. The colors range from whites, yellows, to reds, oranges, browns, and turbulent indigo. Directions for planting are included on each packet. Send check, money order , or bank check made payable to Wally's friend Jim Johanson to: The Chilis- @ Garden House 8 Possum Drive New Fairfield, CT 06812 Sunflowers can be grown in a high-rise patio container in Manhattan or LA and of course these would also make a great gift for a gardening friend. I hope you will agree this is a great way to remember Wally this year when you see those sunflowers chasing the sun. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 20:57:15 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Catching up..... Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:49:12 -0600 From: Joseph Davis First of all, you guys sure do post up a lot here! Secondly, I have been reading the 118 (ugh!) entries, and two immediately made me want to post: FIRST, I am a HUGE Janis Ian fan...and I think Janis and Joni would make for an AMAZING interview on the CHARLIE ROSE show. (I'm a fan of HIM too). Can't remember who posted about Tracy Chapman, but you're right......this album will probably be ignored too.....unless of course, she has another hook laden tune like her last single a coupla years back. As to synchronicity - I am reminded of when my mother died of Hodgkin's disease three years ago this past June. As I was driving back to the apartment where my brother and I lived (literally 2 blocks from the hospital) I saw a hot looking Dodge Intrepid. The front vanity plate had a Pittsburgh Steelers logo on it. Mom was from Pittsburgh, and loved Chryslers (I don't know about anyone else, but my parents NEVER had a speck of trouble with Chrysler products). A great feeling of consolation washed over me then. Well, that's all the catchin' up I'm gonna do at this juncture. Here's my list of influences as a wannabe singer/songwriter 1. Joni (NATCH) 2. Janis Ian 3. Robert Hunter (lyricist for the Grateful Dead - don't laugh, don't think Joni or Janis could translate Rilke's Duino Elegies!!) 4. Leonard Cohen (saw him 4th row in Seattle one year - I SWEAR he looks like a Jewish Ronald Reagan, man! LOL) 5. Bruce Cockburn 6. Rickie Lee Jones 7. Joan Armatrading ("Baby I" one of the greatest love songs EVER written......PERIOD) Of course, there are others.......but these people never fail. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 23:05:35 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Please read, Sunflowers for Wally Chili writes: << I hope you will agree this is a great way to remember Wally this year when you see those sunflowers chasing the sun. >> Oh this is a very thoughtful way to raise money for Wally's page. We all need to contribute whether it be $50. 00 or $5.00. The sunflowers would indeed be a nice gesture to remember Wally as they bloom this spring. AND please dont' forget to send any amount that you can spare to Ashara for the Wally Breese Memorial Fund. WE WANT THE JONIMITCHELL.COM TO KEEP THRIVING!!! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 00:52:55 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Unplugged and Jamming Thank you, Jerry, for your observation that artists and rightsholders are not compensated as they should be in the case of a bootleg. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 00:05:57 -0600 From: evian Subject: BSN: Another tale of woe Well, BSN arrived today... speedy for cdnow, since I usually have to wait forever for stuff from them. I only now have the chance to listen to it. I put it on, and the first track I thought "yeah, nice, but this will never rock my world," simply because it just ain't my thing.... but then, as I was sitting here, and "At Last" came on... and God, her voice is GORGEOUS! I was ready to concur with the "craggy" argument because I really wasn't sure if she'd pull this off.... but WOW.... and I don't even usually dig this standards. Anyway, now the sob story... towards the end of "At Last," it starts jumping... and then skipping like a son of a bitch. Track three, whatever it is, I couldn't even hear it because it skipped from the get-go.... track 4, got half-way through and then it jumped, and skipped over and over. I then put on "A Case of You", and couldn't even tell what it was. So, I just took it out and threw in Dog Eat Dog. You have no idea how cranky I am now... It didn't look THAT banged up, but alas, until I get send it back and get a replacement that works, it just means it's another $70 down the toilet. I was so looking forward to savoring the cd tonight too... made a pot of decaf Plantation Mint tea, got nice and comfy, was going to catch up with some friends online, and enjoy Joni -- however, the cd is unlistenable, my icq buddy list is empty, and I'm bored as all hell. Your Sighing friend, Evian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:34:52 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: BSN all track snippets I don't know if all are aware of this or not, but CDNow has audio clips of each of the 12 tracks for BSN up and playing now. So Gina, Evian and the rest that haven't got a CD that plays yet, at least you'll be able to hear some short samples. Peace Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #100 ***************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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