From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #94 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, February 15 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 094 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Don Rowe's comments ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Deleted Joni ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Deleted Joni [waytoblu@mindspring.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #93 ["Lance A. Michel" ] Re: BSN NY Times Review [Dflahm@aol.com] Madonna? [Johnwe2@aol.com] anybody have any CDNow coupons? (NJC) ["Jerome Gonzales" ] Re: BSN Review - LI Newsday ["Eric Taylor" ] digests (njc) [evian ] Reprise Response [Lindsay Moon ] Joni's picture frames [Marian ] FW: BSN NY Times Review ["Ross, Les" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:18:01 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Don Rowe's comments Catherine wrote: >Isn't it ironic how >every female singer/songwriter is compared to Joni and yet, no one (except >for some VERY special people!) seem to have a clue who Joni is? How much do >music critics get paid? I want that job. Sounds like fun. Being paid to >do what you LIKE to do all day. I was having almost exactly this conversation with someone a couple of days ago! He is the only person I know who likes Joni as much as I do, let alone knows who she is (and for the record, he's a "straight" man from the UK)! But we were discussing Joni and how much she is respected by other artists, and (in general) by the media, and yet she hasn't really caught on with the general public. Now, no flames for this - I know she WAS very popular in the 70's etc - but she's still making records, and it really seems that no one but us knows about it! Apart, of course, from all my friends who I bore to death all the time with Joni-stories! Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:25:14 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Deleted Joni Martin wrote: >Had an odd experience at the weekend. I went into MVC in Harrow to get a >copy of Blue on CD for a freind who needs an introduction to Joni. As >usual, it wasn't in the racks. The only ever seem to have FTR, Hits and >MOA. Nothing daunted, I went to the counter to order a copy, but the >assistant looked it up and said, "I can get it for you on cassette, but >it's been deleted on CD." Maybe this guy was the brother/cousin/nephew/uncle/father of the cretin in the Borders store here who told me that the Both Sides Now - Limited Edition CD package had been deleted - this was before the official US release date - and that he couldn't order it because it was a "bargain-bin special". Honestly, I wouldn't put too much stock in anything some store clerks tell you. I'm sure they're just making stuff up! And in the words of Edina (Absolutely Fabulous) to an extremely stuck-up assistant in an art gallery "You only work in a shop, you know, so lose the attitude!" Hell P.S. Celebrity sighting (about 3 weeks ago)! Lucy Lawless (Xena, Warrior Princess) and her new baby, enjoying a coffee in the sun at Starbucks in Mission Bay here in Auckland (at least Lucy was drinking coffee - not sure about the baby)! _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 22:20:26 -0500 From: waytoblu@mindspring.com Subject: Deleted Joni order a copy, but the>Deleted? Blue? Surely not? Has anyone else found this? Blue was recently remastered. If they looked it up under the old bar code it would show up deleted since the old version was discontinued. The remastered version is considered a new release and will have its own barcode. Victor http://www.mindspring.com/~waytoblu/Tangled.htm NP: Nillson Schmillson > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:16:06 -0800 From: "Lance A. Michel" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #93 I saw this post today and really liked it......Here's hoping y'all do too.......Hope y'all are well today.......Talk with you soon........ Peas & Be Sound...Sir Lance Anonymous poster: "They had started to gather quietly, first Linus and Lucy and Rerun, going out to her booth. There they were joined by Schroeder, Roy, and Franklin. As they passed the school, Miss Othmar, Sally Brown, Peppermint Patty and Marcie joined them. On past the playground, where they met Pig-Pen, 5, Patty, Violet, and Frieda. The group was growing larger as they made their way through the neighborhood, past the tree where Conrad, Bill, Harriet and Woodstock joined them. Snoopy climbed off his doghouse and followed. Finally, they reached the field. There, alone on the pitcher's mound, stood Charlie Brown, inconsolable, more alone than he'd ever been. One figure approached from the crowd. Her bright face framed by red hair, she took him in her arms and said, "I miss him, too." They all gathered around the pair, and held on to each other, not knowing what to do now. Their inspiration was gone. Then, someone walked in from the outfield. He was the new kid in the neighborhood. He said, "Why are you all crying?" They turned as one to face him, how could he not know? The looked at this kid with the bland face, glasses, wearing a light sweater. Charlie Brown moved through the shocked crowd, and stood before the newcomer. "Sparky?", he breathed, not quite daring to hope. "Why, yes, that's me. And you're--" "Charlie Brown." With that, each one came and introduced themselves to the person who'd created them. Then, two adults came by, and Sparky ushered them forward. "Mom, Dad--this is the gang. Guys, this is my mom and dad." Then, Charlie Brown said, "Let's play ball." They gang took their positions, with uncounted numbers of people watching in the stands. Charlie Brown's first pitch was met by Sparky's bat in a line drive that left the pitcher sitting on the ground in his underwear. The game was on once again. This time, there would be no stopping it. Someone motioned toward the field, and commented, "Heaven takes many forms, doesn't it?" Down on the pitcher's mound, putting his clothes back on as Sparky rounded the bases, Charlie Brown knew that the good life was just getting started. Inspiration could, after all, come from within. - -- Lance A. Michel: - -There are as many shades to reality as there are windows unto the soul- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 22:33:57 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN NY Times Review Sorry, Eric, but I don't really think Stephen Holden was COMPLAINING about the quality of JM's 56-year-old voice. "Shockingly" expresses surprise at least as much as it suggests disapproval or distress. If I were to criticize Holden on this review it would be for his assuring us that Joni has been trying to be a smoky-voiced jazz chanteuse since the mid-1970s. He certainly listens with different ears than mine to HEJIRA, HOSL, DJRD and S&L. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 22:43:31 EST From: Johnwe2@aol.com Subject: Madonna? When did this become the Madonna discussion list? Please don't forget NJC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:04:15 PST From: "Jerome Gonzales" Subject: anybody have any CDNow coupons? (NJC) I wouldn't ask normally, but I have to reorder BSN as my copy is on hold because Reprise doesn't seem to have a clue how to manaage ordering and because the one I bought retail for the boyfriend is scratched as well. I just don't have the money to pay full price right now... Thanks! Jerome ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:30:28 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: BSN NY Times Review David Lahm noted: <<...I don't really think Stephen Holden was COMPLAINING about the quality of JM's 56-year-old voice. "Shockingly" expresses surprise at least as much as it suggests disapproval or distress. >> It was Holden's unfortunate choice of the word "craggy" to describe Joni's voice that set me off. Craggy means "rough, hard or rugged in form." This & his further assessment of Joni's "vocal deterioration" makes me certain that he was expressing sheer disapproval. I am shocked that any Joni fans are trying to defend Stephen Holden's highly insulting review! E.T. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:50:58 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: BSN Review - LI Newsday BSN Review - LI Newsday << The good news is that Mitchell's voice - ripe, rich and burnished to a mahogany glow - - wraps itself around each of these familiar compositions (including two of her own, title track included) with worldly confidence and solicitous intelligence. The bad news is that the strings-brass-and-rhythm arrangements are so oppressive throughout that they all but smother her to death. >> While I completely agree with this reviewers accolades of Joni's voice I strongly disagree with his assessment of her orchestral arrangements. I find the entire album slightly understated with a perfect blend of vocals & instrumentation. The thing that bugs me about critics is that they feel a need to say something bad even when there is nothing bad to say. E.T. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:14:13 -0600 From: evian Subject: digests (njc) Anyone else having digest oddities? I just checked the archives and there are two I haven't received today! Evian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 22:21:45 -0800 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: Reprise Response I, too, ordered my copy from Reprise and got this today: "Dear Customer, Thank you for ordering Joni Mitchell's Limited Edition of "Both Sides Now" from Time Warner Order Center. Unfortunately, due to manufacturing problems, this product is currently on backorder. Please accept our sincere apologies for the delay in shipment. We expect to have additional inventory this week and will be contacting you gain regarding the status of your order in the next several days. Thank you for your understanding. I you would like to cancel your order, please contact us as soon as possible at (800) 274-9700 or email us at TWOC@WEAC.com. Regards, Time Warner Order Center Customer Service" I cancelled with them and will go to a local retailer for it. I told my husband I haven't been doing my part in the local marketing which consists of going into stores and asking clerks with plenty of customers around if they have it. Loudly. Also, checking other Joni stock and rearranging all Joni CDs to make sure they are prominent enough (often put Hejira at front since it is so striking and strikingly beautiful.) I am *so* enjoying all the positive reviews for this! Yea for Joan! In a way, I find it sad many people/reviewers can't seem to give her past works the credit they are due because maybe it takes more than a few listens to appreciate it, but am still so glad to have her appreciated enthusiastically for something. (I, myself, upon first hearing "Court and Spark" exclaimed, "why is she sliding up to all those notes??" Of course, I later realized what an idiotic statement that was ...) A puzzling note: I put my in-laws (in their 60s) into a car with the tape while they were going to do an errand or two, thinking how could they not love this? When they came back, my mother-in-law said, "I didn't realize Joni recorded other peoples' songs." Period. End of comment. Frankly, I didn't have the heart to say, "well? what did you think? wasn't that brilliantly beautiful??" I guessed they didn't think so from their lack of comment on it knowing what a Joni freak I am. Once again, I'm so glad you're all here! Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 08:25:17 +0100 From: Marian Subject: Joni's picture frames On Tue , 15 Feb 2000 03:38:20 -0700, Kate wrote: >Sorry, I don't know who wrote this: >> I showed the pictures to a painter-friend of mine and the first thing she >> said was, "well, the frames alone explain it all". I think it might have been Debra Shea? >I'd call it Joni's personal taste in picture frames, and that's about it. I recently read the novel "Lust For Life", by Irving Stone, about the life of Vincent Van Gogh. I don't know if this is actually true, but at one point in a conversation with other artists when Van Gogh was living in Paris, Georges Seurat says: "We get through with a canvas. Then what do we do? We turn it over to some fool who puts it into a hideous gold frame and kills our every last effect. Now I propose that we should never let a picture out of our hands until we've put it into a frame and painted the frame so that it becomes an integral part of the picture." Can anybody elaborate on this? Is it true? Were there a lot of painters during Van Gogh's time that did this? Do you think Joni does this, too - out of agreement/sympathy with those painters? I am looking at the painting of Larry Klein sleeping with a cat on the poster for the London art exhibition in 1990. Surrounding the painting is a dark-blue painted wooden frame with gold lettering: "Once In A While On [sic] A Big Blue Moon There Comes A Night Like This 1987 Kauai". The TTT portrait is another example of a painted frame, but in this case it seems like the frame is actually part of the canvas, rather than a separate frame (can anyone confirm this?). Another example is the Idol/Idyll/Ideal painting which looks to me to be a picture of Kilauren. Marian Vienna npimh: Both Sides Now - Atlanta concert [thanks, Bob!!!] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 07:55:10 -0000 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: FW: BSN NY Times Review I was one of the people who supported Eric 'off-list' after his earlier trashing of the NY Times Review and once again I have to completely concur with his writing on the matter. I was furious when I read the review on Sunday when I came in to work reacting bitterly to the pointless and unintellegent comparisons being brought to bear in support (sic) of the NYT criticism. It was stupid, pointless and ultimately uninforming. I was further stunned that this critic was supposed to be a 'fan' of JM sponsoring her induction to the RNR Hall of Fame (....like Big F'g Deal, her stature has never been contingent upon 'peer' approval - perhaps it's just as well.). I'd have assumed if the man was such a fan of the work of JM he'd have somehow, I don't know, assimilated the fact that JM has aged and matured with all that that brings to a person and thereby gloried in the fact. Debra wrote: << Eric, I don't understand what you're so upset about and why you so hatefully dismiss this entire review and characterize the reviewer in such an ugly way. Throughout it, Holden makes many comments about the new-found emotional depth and power of Joni's voice. Joni's voice HAS deteriorated (so hate me for saying that if you choose to). She's really straining in some parts of BSN to get the sound out, WHAT?!?! - I Don't hear this...... Eric wrote It's funny, three people emailed me offlist expressing their complete agreement with my reaction to the NY Times Review. I am not a hateful, ugly, brainless person, Debra. What pissed me off so much was Holden's opening statement: "FEW contemporary voices have aged more shockingly than Joni Mitchell's.The craggy alto on "Both Sides Now"... is so changed from the sweetly yodeling folk soprano of her earliest albums that it hardly seems possible the two sounds could have come from the same body." This is the type of ageism typical of the American media. Joni is pushing 60 & for people to complain that she no longer sounds 20 is maddening! Having had more than a "cursory listening" of BSN I hear no "straining... to get the sound out. I don't "Compare that to her fluid vocal gymnastics when she was younger." & most importantly I don't consider Joni's older voice "shockingly craggy" or a "trade off." Our superficial pop culture equates aging with deterioration, especially when it comes to women. Joni's younger voice would sound ridiculous attempting the classics on BSN. IMO the new versions of A Case Of You & Both Sides Now are FAR superior to the originals in every way. This is the second time that the NYT has portrayed Joni as being over the hill (remember that extremely unflattering blow up they used in their review of TTT?). NYC is the bastion of youth-worship plaguing our world with anorexic chic. I pictured Joni crying reading that harsh review by a supposed fan. The NYT is one of the most influential newspapers on earth & Holden's ageist review will no doubt discourage many people from buying BSN. It is not hatred of insensitive reviewers, but rather my love of Joni's music, that motivates my occasional outbursts. One more thing: Why is it that listers rarely respond to my nice posts but jump down my throat every time I express a strong opinion? It really makes me want to unsubscribe sometimes. <........Hey, relax, all mine get ignored...:-) > Lovingly, E.T. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #94 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?