From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #92 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, February 14 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 092 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff ["Kakki" ] Re: A Strange boy. Or at least a rare bird. [Robert Glenn Plotner ] Someday Soon (NJC) ["Kakki" ] BSN Mojo Review [Dmascall@aol.com] Re: Joni giving up music for painting [Marian ] Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff [dsk ] vocal deterioration and critics (NJC) [Robert Holliston ] BSN ["Raffaele Malanga" ] BSN review on VH1.com [Deb Messling ] BSN review: Philly Daily News 2/8 [Deb Messling ] BSN review: Chicago Sun-Times [Deb Messling ] Re: Two statements which explain alot (from BSN review on VH1.com) [MDES] Joni on the National ["Chad Burkhart" ] Re: Joni on National, etc. ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: my graceless post [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Joni giving up music for painting [TerryM2442@aol.com] BSN - Thanks, Joni!! [Don Sloan ] Re: A Strange boy. Or at least a rare bird. ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Tale of a CD Purchase (small Novella) NJC for the picky people [Ashar] RE: BSN review: Philly Daily News 2/8 ["Chris Marshall" ] HVD & is it really a collector's item now? NJC [Wolfebite@aol.com] vh1.com reviews both sides now ["Bryan Thomas" ] Re: vh1.com reviews both sides now ["Loren Carter" ] Joni in new VF [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: vh1.com reviews both sides now [Phyliss Ward ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:01:36 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff Debra wrote: > I think to be effective a person's art has to be honest and true to that person's particular experience, > which to me includes taking into consideration the times she or he is living in. > That's why different movements evolve, not because someone consciously sets > about doing something new, but because the former ways of representing life > truthfully don't fit anymore. And the change in style doesn't have to be > dramatic or completely without earlier influences (which is impossible anyway) > for the work to speak honestly to a new time. Maybe I'm regarding her paintings simplistically, but to me they do reflect her particular experience as far as the subject matter she chooses - boyfriend, ex-husband, cats, Canadian landscapes, etc. She is memorializing what is near and dear to her and leaving a visual story along the way. That can be considered banal or ordinary, I suppose, but it is honest as far the subjects she chooses to portray. I also see hidden symbolism in many of the paintings - the work is ordinary at first glance but later reveals deeper meanings or concepts, just like many of her songs do. Maybe that can be considered contrived because others before her have already done it, but I think she just likes to employ the conceptual too much not to use it in her work. One of my favorite paintings is the one of Charlie Mingus in the wheelchair wearing a big hat. Sure, probably anyone could have painted Charlie in his wheelchair toward the end of his life, but to our knowledge nobody else did so. Only Joni has memorialized Charlie in this way and the simple painting speaks volumes to me. Perhaps the act of borrowing the generally impressionist style itself in the 90s paintings is a deliberate choice for which only she at this point, knows the meaning. However, if she is deliberately choosing that, maybe that could also be considered a contrivance. >But, if Joni considers these paintings as merely learning exercises or decorations for her home, why >are they in such a permanent public display on her CDs? I never for a moment took her remarks of "painting as mere decorations," or "painting to match her couch" seriously. I think she is possibly poking fun at some of her critics in the art world who have had those sentiments about her work at first glance. Defensiveness disguised as "laughing it all away." My bottom line is that she is much better than I thought she was prior to seeing the paintings and that really delights me. I'm inspired by her wanting to pick up and pursue her first love. I'm also impressed by her guts to give it a go in the face of probably many who exhort her to "stick to the music, Joni." I think it's obvious, for better or worse, that the music biz has burned her out to the point where she wants to retreat from it indefinitely, lest it suck her spirit away completely. So what does she turn to to satisfy her abundantly creative nature? Her first love - painting. I'm just glad she wants to continue expressing herself creatively, regardless of other opinions as to the proper medium she should employ to accomplish that expression. I'm starting to feel a little nervous about the "withholding judgment until I see them" comments. Please, just promise me if you lay out the money to travel to Saskatoon or elsewhere and then be disappointed, that you won't blame it on Kakki! ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:47:49 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Glenn Plotner Subject: Re: A Strange boy. Or at least a rare bird. SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >>By the same token, picking up on what Randy said, just in the last two weeks I've had conversations with 3 straight guys at work about Joni. They were all fans, albeit not as nutty as me, but then again there aren't many of *us* out there!<< I missed the initial thread, but I think it is a wonderfully funny joke on straight males that this is the one place that *they* must come out. So I too must confess that I am indeed a straight white male fan of Joni Mitchell. In fact, I agree with Bob, there's a whole underground of us (I've traded tapes with 6 or 7 of them in the past year), a subculture secretly listening, keeping it on the sly, the remote ready to advance the CD lest one of our buddies walk in on us. "Say there, Bob. What's that you're listening too? You ain't turning fruity on us, are you?" "Uh no, no. The wife must of left that in there." I think it's time that we were secure enough in our straightness that we just let it play, come out to the world, put on DED at full blast in the car with the windows down and drive into the city. You do not know how liberating that can be especially if you own one of them four-wheelers with big honking tires. Robert ===== Screenwriter Contact Information http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/rabidfox/page12.html Ignatz Mouse's Tape Trade Archive and Seriously Disturbed Humor http://members.xoom.com/rabidfox Thought Experiments, The Metaphysical Think Tank http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thoughtexperiments __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:48:28 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: BSN review awards (NJC) Most gratuitous use of the "f" word in a BSN review review: Equal first place goes to: Patrick Leader Eric Taylor Unfortunately the Tasmanian National Parks and Wildlife Service have stated "It would be cruel and inhumane to allow Tasmanian Devils to be given to the custody of these gentlemen", so I can't send you your prizes. Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Van Diemens Land ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:47:33 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Someday Soon (NJC) Bob is correct - the Someday Soon performed at the CSNY concert is from their new album and written by Graham Nash. I also made the same assumption when I read the title tracks on the new album before I played it. Judy Collins' Someday Soon is one of my all time favorites. This is one of those classic Nash songs that are a bit too simple with a bit too much sugar added. And as usual, it is one of those songs that only Graham can pull off. I didn't want to, but couldn't help liking it very much. Here's the lyrics: Someday soon you will see by the light of day That someday soon all your troubles will fade away Keep holding on to the love that has made you strong And someday soon heartache will all be done Someday soon I hope that your wishes all come true Keep holding on to the love that has brought you here And someday soon darkness will disappear When life's too hard to bear for you to take it Have faith in what you do You've got to tell yourself That you can make it through Someday soon you will get to be your best And someday soon you will finally get some rest Keep holding on to the love that came your way And someday soon shadows will fade away Like I said, only Graham can pull off a song like this, and he did so perfectly last night. He made it sound like the sweetest lullaby and the extra touch of Stills playing second guitar like a balalaika cinced it. They completely enchanted the audience. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 03:51:06 EST From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: BSN Mojo Review It's probably been posted already - but I don't know because I'm sorting out the results of a "friendly" AOL helpdesk person losing a monthsworth of mail when "helping" my partner. Mojo March 2000 issue - review of BST by Paul Du Noyer Sooner or later most singers must wonder if they cut it compared to those golden-throated canaries of yesteryear. For the sinbger-songwriter there is an extra challenge: how would their material measure up to the Rodgers and the Harts? Joni tackles standards once the preserve of Billie Holliday, Frank Sinatra and Ella Fitzgerald, suavely pitching two of her own creations - the 1967 title track and Blue's A Case of You - into the reckoning. Let it be said the results knock George Michael's recent effort into a pre-war trilby hat. Vocals wreathed in grey-blue cigarette smoke, she follows the arc of a love affair in 12 exquisitely sequenced episodes, from the first flirtatious tingle (1933's You're My Thrill) to intoxication (A Case of You) and, by way of Stormy Weather, to the ambivalent resolution: "I don't really know love at all". And in her maturity those old songs of hers - delivered in lower, slower tones now - are closer than ever to the terrain that great performers occupy. (And this review is on the same page as the new Steely Dan and Fiona Apple reviews) David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:57:11 +0100 From: Marian Subject: Re: Joni giving up music for painting It seems like some have interpreted Joni's remarks about giving up music for painting to mean that she's aspiring to be as great a painter as she is a musician, or that she thinks she's as good at painting as she is at music. I think she just sincerely loves to paint - she finds it easier and more relaxing than creating new music - and she's in a place in her life where she can afford to do what she most enjoys. In that LACE interview, she said that she paints things she'd like to have on the walls in her own house. She called her paintings "domestic decorations", which is a pretty humble thing for her to say about her artwork. In any case, it seems like kind of a waste of time to be comparing her works to the great artists, especially since most of us have never seen her artwork up close and in person and, moreover, what we *have* seen of it (as album covers over the years) is only a small fraction of her total portfolio. I saw some of her paintings at the London Exhibition in 1990 and most of them were very abstract and unusual - totally unlike anything on the album covers. As a life-long fan, I do share the general wish for yet more of Joni's musical treasures, but as someone getting closer to retirement age myself, I totally support her decision to take early retirement from music and enjoy her golden years painting. Marian (still waiting for BSN) Vienna NP: Cactus Tree - Marcel D'Este (great guitar playing and harmonies!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 04:08:34 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff Kakki wrote: > One of my favorite paintings is the one of Charlie Mingus in the > wheelchair wearing a big hat. Sure, probably anyone could have painted > Charlie in his wheelchair toward the end of his life, but to our knowledge > nobody else did so. Only Joni has memorialized Charlie in this way and the > simple painting speaks volumes to me. I like this painting too, and even though I can think of other artists that used large flat areas of color in a similar way, that never got in the way of appeciating this painting. > Perhaps the act of borrowing the > generally impressionist style itself in the 90s paintings is a deliberate > choice for which only she at this point, knows the meaning. Maybe so, or for some unknown-to-her reason she's driven now to paint this way. But for now anyway, I see those heavy elaborate frames and impressionistic style of the late 1800s and it turns me off. Before TI, I liked her artwork, but didn't pay a great deal of attention to it. At least Joni's paintings on her latest CDs are getting some strong reactions, which is much better than being ignored even if the reactions are negative. So thinking about it that way I've got to hand it to Joni: she knows what she's doing. She's a wizard in many ways. > ...I'm inspired by her > wanting to pick up and pursue her first love. I'm also impressed by her > guts to give it a go in the face of probably many who exhort her to "stick > to the music, Joni." ... > I'm just glad she wants to continue expressing herself creatively, regardless > of > other opinions as to the proper medium she should employ to accomplish that > expression. There is something very inspiring about a person doing what she's driven to do, or called to do (in a spiritual sense). It's very easy to get lost in the "should do"ness of life and lose that inner spark. That's the aspect of Joni that most impresses me. I usually associate it with the "I'm doing this album this way even if it means we're going out on a very slender branch" attitude, but as you point out, it's true for her as a painter also. > I'm starting to feel a little nervous about the "withholding judgment until > I see them" comments. Please, just promise me if you lay out the money to > travel to Saskatoon or elsewhere and then be disappointed, that you won't > blame it on Kakki! ;-) I promise, REALLY. Although my expectation is it will be one of those positive/negative/complicated experiences. :-) Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 02:02:01 -0800 From: Robert Holliston Subject: vocal deterioration and critics (NJC) Eric Taylor wrote re: Stephen Holden: > This overpaid snob sits on his pompous ass putting down the greatest musicians of our time > "Vocal deterioration?!" I must respectfully disagree: Holden's writing is anything but snobbish; it is (usually) thoughtful, rational, and well-expressed. And, as Patrick pointed out, he has been a longtime advocate of Joni's work, even if he has had a few caveats. I wonder if you don't just disapprove of critics, period. They have been characterized as "eunuchs in a harem," and as people who "understand the directions but can't drive the car." We use IMHO here, but that is surely something to be assumed when reading music journalism. It would quickly become tedious if every sentence a critic wrote had to be accompanied by the reassuring phrase, "this is only my opinion." Personally, I love reading good criticism, if it is well-written, and if the critic states his/her ideas clearly. But also passionately (objectivity is an overrated virtue, and perhaps impossible to achieve in any case). Agreeing/disagreeing is not important; provoking thought, reflection, and discussion is really what criticism is for. IMHO, of course ;-) As for vocal deterioration, it's a simple matter of inevitability, like wrinkles, and Holden puts Joni in the very best company (Billie Holiday and Frank Sinatra), considering that this is her first album of standards. The simple fact is that Joni no longer has access to the high notes she had in 1972, and her voice is no longer so agile as it once was. C'est la vie. Even Ella (who didn't smoke, drink, or take drugs) lost her head tones and flexibility - and developed a wobble - as she grew older. We all lose that youthful bloom, which was wonderful, but we also gain deeper insights and greater self-knowledge, which is also wonderful. And no Billie Holiday fan would be without her '50s recordings, despite the ravages time and other thieves have so grievously wrought ;-) I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm going to tell you what an opera singer friend told me about an article he read (on Law & Order, they'd call this hearsay). According to some study or other, if a woman smokes during menopause, her voice may well develop baritonal qualities (i.e., the speaking voices of Lucille Ball, Vivien Leigh, and Rosalind Russell). Smoking very obviously hastens the deterioration of the voice......but not the expressiveness of the artist, which is basically the quality best valued in Joni's singing now (as it was in Billie's 1950s work). Goodnight and very best to all, Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 05:12:21 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni giving up music for painting Marian wrote: > It seems like some have interpreted Joni's remarks about giving up > music for painting to mean that she's aspiring to be as great a > painter as she is a musician, or that she thinks she's as good at > painting as she is at music. I think she just sincerely loves to > paint - she finds it easier and more relaxing than creating new > music - and she's in a place in her life where she can afford to > do what she most enjoys. Well, Joni's already complained about the art world not giving her enough attention, and since she's so driven and such a perfectionist, my guess is she definitely aspires to being as great a painter as she is a musician, especially since she acts like her music is no big deal. She does loves to paint, but doubt that she finds it easier since she's been painting for 40 years or so and still is assimilating her influences, as she puts it. And I know from experience painting is not necessarily relaxing, mind- and time-bending sometimes, but too intense usually to be relaxing. Maybe satisfying is a more accurate description. Time will tell on this one. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 02:11:01 PST From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: BSN I got my copy of BSN through Amazon this morning (at 7!) Although the box was free to bump in the too big packaging, I should consider myself lucky that the CD jumps just on one track, "You've jumped"... sorry, "You've changed" :-) It's like the track is going automatically in fast forward, so the song only lasts a couple of minutes. I'm still in doubt what to do, exchanging it, keeping it... I'll just check with Amazon about their policy. I won't go into a review of the CD. You all know it and, on the other hand, I'll let it grow for a while before speaking any word. What it is impressing for me is that I got BSN exactly on Valentine's Day. Isn't it ironic that my love affair is located at the moment at the downhill side of the virtual arc that Joni thought of? To be more precise, I'm currently at the "Don't Worry 'Bout Me" stage. At least I'll have a good soundtrack for my weeping :-( Raffaele in London ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:11:52 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: BSN review on VH1.com Joni Mitchell In the late '70s, much to the dismay of her legions of hippie folk fans who had stuck by her for a decade, Joni Mitchell opened her musical heart and let us in on a little secret: she dug jazz. Like the time at the Newport Folk Festival when Bob Dylan unleashed his electric guitar on an unsuspecting audience, Mitchell released non-folk rock albums like Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and Mingus, featuring names like Metheny, Pastorius, Shorter, and Hancock, giving the former folk icon a reputation as an artistic adventurer and an industry risk. Since then, Mitchell's ventured over and back into the genre, occasionally merging her love of pop with her passion for jazz and ending up in uncomfortable musical places because of it. With Both Sides Now, though, Mitchell buys once again into jazz with a gorgeous album of romantic jazz standards. Drawing from the inspiration of archetypal singers like Nina Simone, Billie Holiday, and even Billy Eckstine, Mitchell croons with the style and aplomb of a cabaret vet, her voice capable of lovely phrasing, redolent with feeling, and dusted with a classy, delicate grit. Mitchell's arrangements - accompanied by the London Symphony Orchestra - swell with charged emotion, especially on the sultry "You're My Thrill" and the sweeping "You've Changed." Casual Joni fans might check twice to be sure it's the same golden-haired lady of the canyon they remember. Diehard fans will know that, yeah, it is, and it's terrific. BOB GULLA Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:24:47 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: BSN review: Philly Daily News 2/8 Joni's giggly voice gone by Jonathan Takiff Daily News Staff Writer "Both Sides Now" Joni Mitchell (Reprise) Once she was the epitome of the flower child, with a soaring soprano to match. Today, there isn't a hint of girlish giggle or dewy-eyed optimism left in Joni Mitchell's voice. She's smoked her way into a dusky-throated, world-wise thrush, and seemingly wrung the romantic gush from her art and life (twice married, many more times aligned). Yes, it's an ideal situation for Mitchell to be contemplating love from "Both Sides Now." And with the set's underlying theme - that romance demands eternal vigiliance from both parties - it's perfectly timed for Valentine's Day gift buying, too. Named after one of her most famous songs, this mature, knowing overview of romance's (short) ups and long downward spirals is expressed in a song cycle of lushly arranged pop, blues and jazz-tinged classics first popularized by the likes of Billie Holiday, Nat King Cole, Dinah Washington and Frank Sinatra. Layered in for seasoning are radically re-arranged,but startlingly effective versions of Mitchell's own "A Case of You" and the song-cycle capping title tune. Their enduring nature and relevance remind us that Joni might have been foolish in love, but never anybody's fool. Luxurious treatments for upwards of 70 musicians (plus special guests like Herbie Hancock and Mark Isham) lends this set the rich panache of a classic Sinatra or Ella Fitzgerald studio session. The first track of attack, the Holiday-popularized "You're My Thrill," is a bit of overkill, almost drowning the quivery, sensual nature of the confession, and scaring you into thinking that Mitchell's gone over the top. Ah, but the dynamic is quickly re-balanced with the Etta James' hit "At Last," with contrasting pinging piano notes and strings against Joni's dramatic phrasing - subtly slurred and cracking in all the right places. Also delish - the downfall predicting "You've Changed" with the first of the album's several haunting Wayne Shorter sax solos, the ups and downs of "Sometimes I'm Happy" and "I Wish I Was In Love Again" and a multi-hued, insightful treatment of "Stormy Weather" that now stands among the best for this war horse. According to Ice magazine, Mitchell got the bug for this project when her musical director, co-producer and ex-hubby Larry Klein staged a benefit concert called "Stormy Weather" and invited Joni to perform standards with a big band, alongside Sheryl Crow, Paula Cole, Natalie Cole, Stevie Nicks and Bjork. A recording of that whole show may soon see the light of day, we hope, though Mitchell's tantalizing treatise is going to be tough to top. Grade: A Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:35:08 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: BSN review: Chicago Sun-Times Joni Mitchell plays favorites on new album February 8, 2000 RECORD REVIEW BY LLOYD SACHS It was only a matter of time before Joni Mitchell, whose achievements as a pop-jazz innovator approach her achievements as a singer-songwriter, cut a standards album. On the concert trail, she has tested those waters with "Stormy Weather" and "Comes Love," once a vehicle for Billie Holiday. She also contributed readings of "Summertime" and "The Man I Love" to jazz pianist Herbie Hancock's genre-hopping disc, "Gershwin's World" (1998). Because her Gershwin interpretations strained for pained, Holiday-esque expression, you could have feared the worst in approaching "Both Sides Now" (Reprise). The title track and another early folk-rock Mitchell favorite, "A Case of You," is surrounded by mostly pre-rock classics. But the album, available today in a limited-edition box set containing three of her lithographs (it retails at $49.98; the regular CD will be released March 21), transcends its influences. It's as convincing as anything she has done. Luxuriating in West Coast arranger Vince Mendoza's stirring orchestrations, the 56-year-old Mitchell brings a husky, powerfully laid back authority to songs associated with the likes of Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald and Etta James-and even while misfiring with "Stormy Weather," the singer makes an interesting pass at Lena Horne. Joni wouldn't be Joni if she weren't pitching a high concept. In ordering the songs to trace the arc of a love affair, she told Billboard magazine, "Both Sides Now" is designed as "a commentary on romantic love in the 20th century." Those expecting any champagne bubbles are in for a letdown. Though she projects a sexy, carefree maturity on "Comes Love" and "I Wish I Were in Love Again," thriving as always in a cool, swinging vein, even the most upbeat songs are streaked with foreboding. On "You're My Thrill," the album's stunning opener, heartbreak is no more than an inflection away from hope. The two Mitchell oldies are out of their element here. Decking out "I could drink a case of you" in strings is like outfitting a flower child in Dior. Still, singing the songs with a reflective intensity, she muscles her way past their '60s-collegiate sensibility to spill pressing middle-age truths. Recorded in London in settings ranging from a big band to a 71-piece orchestra, "Both Sides Now" features pop-tinged soprano saxophone solos by Wayne Shorter (a longtime crony of Mitchell's), and contributions by Hancock and trumpeter Mark Isham. The first in a trilogy planned by Mitchell and her co-producer (and ex-husband) Larry Klein, the disc will be followed by a symphonic treatment of her music and reportedly a holiday album including several "something bad always happens to me on Christmas" songs. Rating: *** ½ Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:46:40 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Two statements which explain alot (from BSN review on VH1.com) In a message dated 2/14/2000 4:13:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, messling@enter.net writes: << giving the former folk icon a reputation as an artistic adventurer and an industry risk. >> <<>> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 05:22:46 PST From: "Chad Burkhart" Subject: Joni on the National I too am wondering how many of you saw Joni on the National. I was one of the people that did catch the interview and I have to say that at first, my girlfriend and I were a little put off by her attitude. In hindsight, and after reading some of your posts, I have to give Joni the benefit of the doubt. The interviewer did seem to be egging her on, it seemed right from the start that he wanted to get a rise our of her. I did like some of her answers and she was good ol' Joni sitting and smoking about five cigarettes throughout the interview. I didn't really care if it wasn't the best interview in the world. I'm just glad to see that finally one of her albums is getting the press that it deserves. Oh yeah and my BSN-EL was scratched too so I took it back and got a refund....I will be waiting for the jewel box rather than take my chances with another copy (It's $100 with tax in these parts). Chad ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:26:53 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Joni on National, etc. Evian tells ranting Joni to "Snap outta it!" Evian, you're starting to sound like Myrtle, now. ;) P.S., In my usual inimitable fashion, I didn't "notice" Joni was going to be on the National, therefore, I missed it (but sounds like I didn't miss much.) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:33:27 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff Kakki says: My father has been a painter all his life (so I give him some credit for knowing a bit about it) and my mother is very picky and sometimes snobby in her tastes. Both of them cried as they viewed her paintings, too. Guess you just have to be there ;-) For what it's worth, my husband, the artist, just noticed the Joni songbooks I bought recently (TTT and TI) and commented, "Gee, I really like her paintings". Also, the real thing is often quite different from the reproductions you see here and there. Sometimes the reproduction looks more "realistic" because it has been reduced - however, you miss the "feeling" that you get from seeing brushstrokes and so on. How many people have seen the REAL Mona Lisa and been surprised at how "small" the real painting is? and so on... it is a matter of taste. My husband, constantly indecisive about what medium to use (among many other things), always asks me whether I like his oils or acryclics better and it drives him nuts when I tell him I usually can't tell the difference and that I go by what the painting is about, rather than how it was painted. Although I'm no art critic, there are many Joni paintings I quite admire and others I don't care for at all. Just to get my bitchy 2-cents in, I'm not crazy about a lot of the frames she uses - to me, these often overwhelm the painting itself. IMO the frame should complement the picture and these great big gold things don't do much for me - they seem to cry out to be looked at, rather than the paintings. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:40:04 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: BSN Ltd Edition - now cold vs fever - NJC >MG - trying to decided whether it's feed a cold or starve a fever or just >ignore them both and plow on ahead..... If you're hungry, eat. If you're not hungry, don't eat. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:50:24 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff In a message dated 2/14/2000 1:36:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: << why, unless she's carved the frames herself, are they included in the reproductions of her work? >> I showed the pictures to a painter-friend of mine and the first thing she said was, "well, the frames alone explain it all". Deb, you've summed up my feelings, though I do feel that if she wants to decorate her CDs with her paintings, that's fine with me. You realize we'll never be invited to her home, now, right? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:53:05 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: Harry Nilsson NJC hi everyone i'm behind in the digests, but just wanted to throw in my favorite Nilsson song -- a sort of call-to-arms (in a sweet funny way) for writers: "my good old desk" - -- emily NP: "A Case of You," BSN ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:00:25 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff In a message dated 2/14/2000 3:05:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << I'm starting to feel a little nervous about the "withholding judgment until I see them" comments. Please, just promise me if you lay out the money to travel to Saskatoon or elsewhere and then be disappointed, that you won't blame it on Kakki! ;-) >> LOL, Kakki. I've already made comments without seeing the paintings in real life. So, you're off the hook. Still, I have to agree with Debra's points. Though Joni does depict her life and what's important to her, it goes beyond that. The final, breaking point for me was seeing that close up of the heart on her sleeve on the CD. Yes, it was really there- she didn't make it up- but another artist might have seen it and dismissed it, realizing that sometimes, stating the obvious is not the way to go. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:03:16 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: my graceless post In a message dated 2/13/00 11:32:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << From: "Mark S" Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 18:27:37 -0500 I am aware of the irony of my graceless post on Joni's "National" interview. >> every day is a new day, and i am amazed each day when i learn how to say more and more with less and less. and when i don't do that, and i say very little with way too much, which i do far too often, i look forward to tomorrow, which is a new day. pat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:09:28 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni giving up music for painting In a message dated 2/14/2000 5:09:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: << And I know from experience painting is not necessarily relaxing, mind- and time-bending sometimes, but too intense usually to be relaxing. Maybe satisfying is a more accurate description. >> I'd like to know Joni's secret. I'm a nervous wreck when I paint; my mind is all over the place, fretting and thinking, and I pace. But it is satisfying- unless what comes off the brush is a piece of shit. Then I'm a miserable slob. Relaxing for me is listening to Joni! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:25:44 -0800 From: Don Sloan Subject: BSN - Thanks, Joni!! Thanks to all who offered up warnings about the scratched LE BSN. I cancelled my Reprise order and thought, "I'll wait for the regular version." Hah! Within 24 hours, I found myself calling around to every music retailer in the area and when I found one with the LE BSN in stock, I had to bite. Am I glad I did, especially as it is a flawless disk! Okay. So it's a hefty price for the package, but after listening to the music three or four times, I can't get enough. I love it, start to finish. Thanks to Joni for a wonderful Valentine gift. Don ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:23:58 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: A Strange boy. Or at least a rare bird. Bob says: >just in the last two weeks >I've had conversations with 3 straight guys at work about Joni. They were >all >fans, albeit not as nutty as me, but then again there aren't many of *us* >out >there! :~) >One of the guys even had a copy of C&S in his pocket! Really, Bob? Was that a copy of C&S in his pocket, or was he just happy to see you? (Sorry - I couldn't resist!) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:25:56 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re:it sounds stupid... >SIQUOMB: She Is Queen Undisputed Of Mind Beauty > > >other Joni acronyms include: > >SISOTOWBELL: Somehow In Spite Of Trouble Ours Will Be EverLasting Love >POSALL: Perhaps Our Souls Are Little Ladies >MOSALM: Maybe Our Souls Are Little Men Never knew about the Sisotowbell thing - it sounded vaguely Scottish to me somehow - and would prefer that I hadn't. IMO, Joni should stay away from the acronyms, but then, I'm known for having acronymophobia... Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:50:09 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Tale of a CD Purchase (small Novella) NJC for the picky people OHMYGOSH, Craig!!!!! I have a total side-splitting stomach-ache from this post! This was too funny for words, and the best part is that I bet almost every JMDLer can relate to this story! For the record, I did receive my copy of BSN from CdNow, and even though it wasn't firmly in place, it seems to be playing fine. {sigh} Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to really sit down and give it my undivided attention yet, but I love what I've heard on my car CD player in between, "MOM!!!!!! Not another Joni CD!!!! We can't STAND her!!!!!" Ah, well, the ignorance of youth. Happy Valentine's Day to all of you! Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:32:25 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: BSN review: Philly Daily News 2/8 Deb Messling forwarded the Philly Daily News article:- > According to Ice magazine, Mitchell got the bug for this project when her > musical director, co-producer and ex-hubby Larry Klein staged a benefit > concert called "Stormy Weather" and invited Joni to perform standards with > a big band, alongside Sheryl Crow, Paula Cole, Natalie Cole, Stevie Nicks > and Bjork. A recording of that whole show may soon > see the light of day, we hope, though Mitchell's tantalizing treatise is > going to be tough to top. Interesting: this sounds just like the Stormy Weather concert CD that AT&T put out to accompany a marketing push. - --Chris Chris Marshall Secure Systems Integration Ltd Web: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 7970 459 553 Fax: +44 (0) 1954 201 741 E-mail: chris@secure-si.co.uk PGP key: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/chris/pubkey.txt Fingerprint: 86F2 8809 FAC2 37ED 491A FD7D 7CAF 3206 E706 D3B3 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:12:23 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Happy Valentines Day!! A word of caution to anyone with a mushy heart on this Valentines Day. I just opened my candy box of Joni love songs and they go straight to wear it hurts and turn the faucets on full blast! Oh boy, I can't think of any thing I would rather hear on a melancholy Valentines day!! Blue is my favorite color!! :-) You'll start sliding, when your heart turns on the juice... PS no skips! ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:43:38 EST From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: HVD & is it really a collector's item now? NJC hello dear ones... just taking a few moments to let down the armour and wish you a big wet valentines day greeting.... and i was wondering. has anyone tried the math on this? the statistical curve as it were? how many LE's were printed? On average- how many have survived shipping unscratched? judging from our list- the odds way heavy that a good portion of the LE's were damaged. So the LE is really much or LE than originally planned! i wonder what Jack N is going to do with all his damaged boxed sets??? "although i speak in tongues of man and angels i'm just sounding brass and tinkling cymbals without love. love suffers long, love is blind, enduring all things, hoping all things, love has no evil in mind" doug ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:50:01 -0500 From: "Bryan Thomas" Subject: vh1.com reviews both sides now Before I proceed with the big cut and paste: anyone else NOT received their BSN from Reprise yet? I haven't, and it's making me crazy. Do they send a confirmation e-mail when it leaves the warehouse? Maybe it'll come today. (Sigh.) Peace to Wally, y'all. B. - - - - - - VH1.com http://www.vh1.com/thewire/reviews/review.jhtml?ID=179 Joni Mitchell. Both Sides Now. Reprise. In the late '70s, much to the dismay of her legions of hippie folk fans who had stuck by her for a decade, Joni Mitchell opened her musical heart and let us in on a little secret: she dug jazz. Like the time at the Newport Folk Festival when Bob Dylan unleashed his electric guitar on an unsuspecting audience, Mitchell released non-folk rock albums like Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and Mingus, featuring names like Metheny, Pastorius, Shorter, and Hancock, giving the former folk icon a reputation as an artistic adventurer and an industry risk. Since then, Mitchell's ventured over and back into the genre, occasionally merging her love of pop with her passion for jazz and ending up in uncomfortable musical places because of it. With Both Sides Now, though, Mitchell buys once again into jazz with a gorgeous album of romantic jazz standards. Drawing from the inspiration of archetypal singers like Nina Simone, Billie Holiday, and even Billy Eckstine, Mitchell croons with the style and aplomb of a cabaret vet, her voice capable of lovely phrasing, redolent with feeling, and dusted with a classy, delicate grit. Mitchell's arrangements - accompanied by the London Symphony Orchestra - swell with charged emotion, especially on the sultry "You're My Thrill" and the sweeping "You've Changed." Casual Joni fans might check twice to be sure it's the same golden- haired lady of the canyon they remember. Diehard fans will know that, yeah, it is, and it's terrific. BOB GULLA - --- BRYAN THOMAS. new.black.music. http://www.bryanthomas.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:13:01 -0500 From: "Loren Carter" Subject: Re: vh1.com reviews both sides now Bryan, I haven't received my copy yet either. However, not 5 minutes after I drafted and sent a message to the Reprise folks asking what's up, and where is it, I got an e-mail from them saying that it's in the able hands of the US Postal Service. Asuming that my carrier, or a carrier somewhere in the process, does not go postal, it should be at the ranch, in the CD player, this week. I only hope that, after hearing all of the sad stories and disappointments of the first releases, purchases, and arrivals, that mine (and yours) was delayed so that they could get all of the bugs worked out. cross 'em if you got 'em, I am, Loren.... "Bryan Thomas" on 02/14/2000 11:50:01 AM Please respond to "Bryan Thomas" To: joni@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Loren Carter/Maryland/United_States/Sylvan Learning Systems/US) Subject: vh1.com reviews both sides now Before I proceed with the big cut and paste: anyone else NOT received their BSN from Reprise yet? I haven't, and it's making me crazy. Do they send a confirmation e-mail when it leaves the warehouse? Maybe it'll come today. (Sigh.) Peace to Wally, y'all. B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:23:19 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: BSN Joys...(njc) Hey All! Not all of us have bad luck all the time. This is one of the rare times for me to have such interesting circumstance! A few weeks ago, I talked to a friend of mine and he was ordering BSN over the web thru Barnes and Noble, and said he'd order a copy for me. so I wouldn't have to worry about hunting one down in town. Cool, I thought. Then, last Thursday, my friend Craig called me and said, "I got your copy of BSN from Barnes and Noble and want to drop it off on Friday after my Dr's appointment, will that work for you?" I, of course, said yes. And around 11 AM, there he was and after a hug and some catching up with the news, he said "Here's a gift for you for Valentine's Day." (We are just very good aquaintences bordering on a good friendship.) I said, " Well, how much? I'll write you a check." He said. "No, it's a gift. Your'e just gonna have to burn some Joni CD's for it!" So I refrained from wetting my pants and said, "Okay!" Then we moved to the living room and I proceeded to relate all the BSN woes from the JMDL and opened my package, and much to my dismay, the cover was damaged! There was a big scratch through the fabric and the box was near impossible to open, but, the CD was flawless! "Now aren't you glad you didn't pay for it?" was Craig's reply, and we talked about returns after he checked his out since he had not played it yet. Now I need to go back to Thursday afternoon. Jon and I were browsing at B&N to get a copy of JM: Complete Poems and Lyrics for $7.98, and I, on a whim, decided to get BSN 'JUST IN CASE' something was wrong with one of the copies that Craig was getting in the mail. I told the whole story of the JMDL and BSN horror stories to the manager and what to expect with the Special Edition, and he was very cool about it. (The one in the store was scratched up and I returned it 10 minutes later....) Fast forward to Friday night. Jon comes over and I tell him my BSN joys and woes. He suggests I call the store we were at and see if I could exchange just the packaging. I gave him the 'who's gonna bite that one' look and call anyway. The Asst. Mgr answered, and I explained my plight, and she said one little word. "Fine." The rest as we often say is "F%$@ing wonderful"! What an act of random kindness! So I have a perfect Package and CD, and it didn't cost me a dime (upfront, anyway...) And to think I was just gonna wait... Steve Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:30:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni in new VF Joni gets a brief mention in the new Vanity Fair magazine (March issue). Page 264, a nice inserted photo of Joni looking out from behind a bamboo (?) leaf, and this text: "It's been 33 years since she wrote the song, and Joni Mitchell has actually seen the world from both sides now, so the new version-on her exquisite album of standards, "Both Sides Now"-has a been-around-the-block, Edith Piaf-like impact" Hopefully they'll run another nice feature story on her soon. fwiw, the cover and feature story for this ish is Madonna. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:50:57 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: vh1.com reviews both sides now Hi Bryan I didn't receive mine either, in fact I called their 800 number and cancelled. CDnow may still have them in stock... Bryan Thomas wrote: > Before I proceed with the big cut and paste: > anyone else NOT received their BSN from > Reprise yet? I haven't, and it's making me > crazy. Do they send a confirmation e-mail > when it leaves the warehouse? Maybe it'll > come today. (Sigh.) > > Peace to Wally, y'all. > > B. > - - - - - > > VH1.com > http://www.vh1.com/thewire/reviews/review.jhtml?ID=179 > Joni Mitchell. Both Sides Now. Reprise. > > In the late '70s, much to the dismay of > her legions of hippie folk fans who had > stuck by her for a decade, Joni Mitchell > opened her musical heart and let us in > on a little secret: she dug jazz. Like the > time at the Newport Folk Festival when > Bob Dylan unleashed his electric guitar > on an unsuspecting audience, Mitchell > released non-folk rock albums like Don > Juan's Reckless Daughter and Mingus, > featuring names like Metheny, Pastorius, > Shorter, and Hancock, giving the former > folk icon a reputation as an artistic > adventurer and an industry risk. > > Since then, Mitchell's ventured over and > back into the genre, occasionally merging > her love of pop with her passion for jazz > and ending up in uncomfortable musical > places because of it. With Both Sides Now, > though, Mitchell buys once again into jazz > with a gorgeous album of romantic jazz > standards. Drawing from the inspiration of > archetypal singers like Nina Simone, Billie > Holiday, and even Billy Eckstine, Mitchell > croons with the style and aplomb of a > cabaret vet, her voice capable of lovely > phrasing, redolent with feeling, and dusted > with a classy, delicate grit. > > Mitchell's arrangements - accompanied by > the London Symphony Orchestra - swell > with charged emotion, especially on the > sultry "You're My Thrill" and the sweeping > "You've Changed." Casual Joni fans might > check twice to be sure it's the same golden- > haired lady of the canyon they remember. > Diehard fans will know that, yeah, it is, and > it's terrific. > > BOB GULLA > > --- > BRYAN THOMAS. new.black.music. > http://www.bryanthomas.com - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #92 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?