From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #80 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, February 8 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 080 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: PWWAM viewing (NJC) ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: The Voice [catman ] Re: Gestures (NJC) ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re: Ordering BSN (NJC) ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re: BSN Now Shipping - BSN Marketing [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Where to buy BSN [w evans ] Re: PWWAM viewing (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] PWWAM (Scary Larry!) NJC [Emily Kirk Gray ] Re: BSN [Susan McNamara ] Johnny Rotten (NJC) [Emily Kirk Gray ] Re: Punk (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Awaiting BSN!! ["Mark or Travis" ] CDNow comes through! [Phyliss Ward ] NJC Here it comes! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] wow, it sucks to be me ["Neil E. Orts" ] RE: wow, it sucks to be me [Louis Lynch ] BSN is on it's way, and a tidbit(NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Namm/BSN ["Michael Paz" ] Re: mother and child reunion [Susan McNamara ] Wally, Joni, and Kilauren [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: wow, it sucks to be me [Deb Messling ] Re: Namm/BSN [SMEBD@aol.com] RE: wow, it sucks to be me ["Neil E. Orts" ] Re: PWWAM viewing (SJC) [Martin Giles ] Wally [Martin Giles ] House Of The Rising Sun NJC [catman ] Re: wow, it sucks to be me [Bounced Message ] Re: Wally, Joni, and Kilauren [catman ] Re: wow, it sucks to be meNJC [catman ] wally [Anne Sandstrom ] Dog Eat Dog ["rick novosel" ] Re: wow, it sucks to be me [Jerry Notaro ] Re: wow, it sucks to be me ["Mark T. Domyancich" ] Re: wow, it sucks to be me ["Neil E. Orts" ] Re: wow, it sucks to be me ["Neil E. Orts" ] Re: House Of The Rising Sun NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: wow, it sucks to be me ["Ross, Les" ] Re: wow, it sucks to be me ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Wally, Joni, and Kilauren ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: wow, it sucks to be me ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: Wally, Joni, and Kilauren [Jason Maloney ] Re: wow, it sucks to be me [FMYFL@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 03:55:20 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: PWWAM viewing (NJC) Catherine (in Toronto) joined the refrain: << Emily, now that you mention it... I wondered while viewing this video whether Larry Klein was bugging me because of all the Larry-bashing that happens around here and maybe I was being influenced by others. I kept trying to tell myself, "Be nice, now..." I must admit, I find him really irritating too. I kept hoping they'd keep the camera off him. There are closeup shots of all the other musicians playing and they just play. They look like they're enjoying it, but they're into the music. Klein seems to be smirking or somehow suggesting - "Hey, look at me! Am I cool or what!" OK, so maybe I'm being bitchy about it. So, sue me.... >> For the record I think Larry Klein has been a great influence on Joni & visa versa. I for one ADORE Larry's close-up shots on PWWAM. He is SO into it & sounds SO fine! I like to think that Larry is SO pleased that Joni is finally being fully appreciated & is SO happy to be a part of it all. & I'm SO glad Joni continues to collaborate with him! Wouldn't we expect ANYONE to beam coolness backing up SIQUOMB? E.T. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 09:06:30 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: The Voice Eric Taylor wrote: > Sorry for picking on you, Catman. Eric, why post something publicly that is directly the opoposite of what you post me privately? > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 20:13:02 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Gestures (NJC) Julian said: >but the reason Larry was making those faces > and those gestures is because he felt it!!! This reminds me of a comment by a comical Australian Country Singer called Chad Morgan. He was retuning his guitar one night and managed to spear the end of a string up under his fingernail. The sight of him grimacing in pain sent the typically understanding Australian audience into howls of laughter. Chad was smart enough to know that he was onto a good thing, and built up a whole persona based on silly expressions and matching clothing. Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Van Diemens Land ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 20:04:46 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Ordering BSN (NJC) Sean said: >I've never ordered from Barnes & Noble before, so I can't comment on >their reliability, although CatGirl got her copy from them on Friday. I >have ordered from CDNOW.com, and they were reliable. In my experience pricing and delivery from Barnes & Noble is similar to Amazon. Articles sent by "air" tend to take 2 - 3 weeks to get to Tasmania if that's any guide. I tend to read the reviews at Amazon and then order from Barnes & Noble using coupons. I also have links to CDNow on my site, these have been copied from both the Joni Mitchell and JMDL sites, so using my CDNow links will help those sites :-) If Amazon, CDNow and Barnes & Noble can deliver reliably to Tasmania I think that's a fairly good indication. Note I have received books from Amazon.co.uk in 7 days :-) Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 07:00:48 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN Now Shipping - BSN Marketing Penny and I exchanged some thoughts on marketing the package: I said this: << <> Penny's 2 cents worth. (couldn't resist!): >>>Isn't it possible, considering the push Reprise gave to Joni for the artwork, that the printing and distribution of all the promo stuff has been working feverishly inside a very small time window also? Hopefully it'll all show up last minute. Maybe, but I doubt it. Her street date is today. At the very least, I see only the tiniest of mentions in our weekly publication that helps stores pick their product. If they can package the lithographs "suitable for framing," it can't be a leap to make take out a quarter page ad in our "buy this stuff" circular. The CD itself was long enough in the making that you'd think that an advertising campaign would have been roughed out along with it. Sadly, I think that this is typical of all Joni releases. I think back to TI and its grammy and beyond a little sticker, (maybe), on the jewel case about the award, nothing was really publicized. On the other hand, maybe she wants it this way. Maybe she wants the product to fail or pass on its own merits without the bells and whistles of purchase enticement. Maybe the advertising team behind her stuff just had isn't that interested or is overworked or had the wrong kind of burrito for lunch. I will say that compared to the promotional push behind other releases, (even Sonia Dada, (a local blues-ish band), had more bang to their marketing), Joni's works always seem to fall flat. And since I now work in one of the largest music wholesalers, I know it is not my imagination. In any case, it's something that has always intrigued me. MG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 07:49:57 -0500 (EST) From: w evans Subject: Re: Where to buy BSN > >Anyway, I seem to be digressing (I'm also trying to put off the housework > >I should have done yesterday). The simple question is: Is CDNow or > >Borders (or some other site I haven't heard of yet) the best place to > >order BSN from? This seems rather obvious to me, that the best way to order it is through the link to cdnow that is on jonimitchell.com, so that Jim will get a cut of the action. Unless you want to get it right now, today, in which case you should definitely patronize your local independently-owned record shop, and please don't get it at Best Buy or B&N. Here's some encouragement, regarding price: I buy things usually from these two indie stores in Atlanta, both of which offer a card whereby you get a free purchase for every ten, which works out to 10% off of everything in the long term. Usually, the base prices are no more than 10% higher than what you'll find at the big discount stores, so it works out to even. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:05:22 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: PWWAM viewing (NJC) Eric says: <> I never even noticed it, I guess I was focusing on Joni...but I think Larry's being sincere, more often then not in Atlanta he was back in the shadows, huncjed over his bass, dressed in black, almost doing everything he could NOT to draw attention to himself. Much harder to pull off when you've got a camera in your face! :~) Besides, the option would be to be a total navel-gazer or to assume some Devo-ish detachment, either of which would be silly... Maybe he should just wear an "I'm not Jaco" T-shirt! :~) Bob NP: Aerosmith, "Big Ten Inch Record" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:57:34 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: PWWAM (Scary Larry!) NJC Julian writes: "Again, sorry if I'm coming across as a music snob, but what did you and your friend think of the MUSIC, (rather than the way the musicians looked)? It is a difficult task to introduce true artists (those uncompromising folks) to the main-stream masses and I really appreciate your efforts. Thanks for your post, sorry if I'm sounding like a wounded artist but there it is." ___________________________________ hmmm....what do i think of the MUSIC? rather than the way the musicians LOOK? what on earth? are you saying people actually listen to the MUSIC when watching their favorite artists live or on tape? i had no idea. i guess i was too busy critiquing joni's outfit to notice the actual MUSIC (as she says, "thanks! but how's my hair?"). next time i guess i really should check out what songs that gang is actually playing! but speaking as (apparently) a member of the "main-stream masses," i guess i'm stuck with my bourgeois impressions of larry's annoyingness -- [also i may or may not be stuck with my sex pistols-loving friend, but that's another story!] sorry if i sound like a wounded JMDLer, but there it is! thanks for setting me straight, julian! (no, just kidding, i'm teasing...sort of...) - -- emily ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:03:02 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: BSN >In a message dated 02/06/2000 3:33:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, >CaTGirl627@aol.com writes: > ><< I got mine from Barnes and Noble and got it on Friday..did anyone else get > theirs yet or am I the only one? >> > I just got word from CDNow today that my order was shipped yesterday (2/7), actually a day early then they had told me. As soon as I get it I'm giving it to Joe so he can wrap it up for my birthday present. So I still won't get to open it till the 16th!! Can't wait! (I also told my daughter that the Joni Mitchell Companion would be another good birthday present!! No surprises this year! Is that diabolical or what?) Take care, Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:05:17 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: Johnny Rotten (NJC) lindsay, i loved the quotation from joni about johnny rotten! thanks for clipping it -- i never get to see the internet, so i forget there's so much cool stuff on "our" sites... well, i guess i can do a version of penny's game with the "six degrees of joni" now... i got to meet J.R. -- well, "meet" him, and actually had the dubious honor of smoking my first try of some certain illegal substance with him and a bunch of random punk P.I.L groupies! after i saw P.I.L at radio city music hall (of all things) in the mid-late-eighties my friend and i ended up at the same club as all of the band after the show (we were looking for michael hutchence, but that's another story...) anyway, i remember some guy handing me what i THOUGHT was a cigarette (nope!) and then passing it back to him, and my friend says, "that was johnny rotten!" i knew enough not to say "who?" in front of the company we were with...but that was pretty much what i was thinking...! anyway, isn't this a way to link me to joni? or does it have to be strictly MUSICAL!?!?! (sorry julian, couldn't resist :)) - -- emily ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 09:10:56 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Punk (NJC) TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/7/2000 10:49:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, > SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > > << .Terry, have you got your copy of it > yet?! >> > > Just put my order in, Bob. Got a $10 coupon off too. Alan, check out > flamingoworld.com for a zillion coupon/codes. But forget Buy.com. I spent 45 minutes trying to put in an order, including 15 minutes on the phone with one of their Cus Reps with no luck redeeming a coupon. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 06:35:25 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Awaiting BSN!! Music-slut Bob wrote: > Yeah, I checked on my CDNow order, Russ, and all it says is > "Processing"... I have an email from CDNow this morning confirming that my order was shipped yesterday. As Catgirl would say, WOOHOO! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 07:00:27 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: CDNow comes through! CDNow comes through after all... (snip) Dear Phyliss, Thank you for shopping at CDNOW. Please keep this email invoice for your records. On February 7 we shipped your order number 15576918 for the following item: Joni Mitchell : Both Sides Now Format: CD Quantity: 1 Price: 44.99 to the following address via Priority Mail: (snip) - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:44:15 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Here it comes! Yippee! CDNow confirmed my Feb 7 shipment too! Come to Papa! After all, I haven't gotten any new music since yesterday! :~D Bob NP: Van Halen, "You Make The Move" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:37:01 -0500 From: "Neil E. Orts" Subject: wow, it sucks to be me Okay, so Tower Records barely opens and I take my morning break to go get BSN. I get it, walking back to my office, giddy as can be. I open it and look at th CD and inserts. The CD had come loose in the box and has scratches all over the playing side of it. I've seen CDs in worse shape that played, so I try it out on my computer player (the only one I have at work). It skips. It hangs. It made my computer crash. (I'm not kidding.) So I have to go back and get another one before I can hear it. How frustrating. To add to the frustration of a having to wait until lunch to get a replacement, I have to say I'm not that thrilled with the packaging. The lyric cards and "lithographs suitable for framing" (give me a break) need a sleave or something. As it is, the edges of my copies were a little banged up from the shipping so the corners are dented. The shrink wrap was no help there. And overall, the huge box just can't be worth the extra 30 dollars. It'll be a storage problem (can't line it up next to her other CDs so well), but if it were more than just a big box, I could live with that. But it's not. It's just a big box. I don't know what I was expecting, but I'm pretty sure this isn't it. Overall, it's a disappointing trip to Tower. In fact, I'm thinking that if they will give me store credit or something, I may just return this package and wait for the regular release in a month. I especially recommend waiting for those of you who are on a budget. I still want to hear the music, though. dammit. - -Neil from euphoria to foul mood in record time ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neil E. Orts * Director/Student Services * Office of Graduate Studies * It's easy to hang onto a sinking ship University of Texas Austin * The hard part's letting go. Main 101 -- 512/232-3626 * neo@mail.utexas.edu * -Jeff Talmadge fax: 512/475-8851 * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 08:45:39 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: wow, it sucks to be me Neil... Your story made me feel so sad for you. I'm anxious to hear the new release, so I can relate. But, what beautiful poetic irony in your story... "Now they only block the sun, they rain and snow on everyone." Best wishes, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:52:23 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: BSN is on it's way, and a tidbit(NJC) I just got my confirmation from Amazon.com that my BSN was shipped today, and I paid extra for 1 day air. It should be here tomorrow YIPPEE!!! A little tidbit from my vacation - a few weeks ago there were some JMDL posts about the song "Stormy Weather." Someone mentioned that the actress Cybill Shepherd sang it on one of her albums, or her TV show "Moonlighting." It turns out that she was the surprise guest star on the cruise. She sang SW beautifully (not as good as Joni), but she did a great job. My highlight was the following day. Cybill was in the Jacuzzi next to me and I got to talk to her a little bit (2 minutes) I told her that Joni was about to release a new CD with SW as one of the songs. She said she just loved Joni Mitchell, and was looking forward to hearing the new CD. I knew I liked Cybill then!!!! Plus she let me get a snapshot of the two of us. I love it when I hear that another singer/actress loves our Joni :~) Missed you guys! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:05:01 -0600 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Namm/BSN Hi Everybody- I made it back from NAMM and hanging with Steve and Clark. I missed seeing my bud Kakki (who abandoned me with very little notice). Even thought she wasn't in town I still felt her wonderful hospitality. Thanks Kakki! I did not make it to Les Deux in time before they closed, but hey I saw the parking lot. I had a great time and it was great running into Peter Erskine again and finding out about the Joni dates. I haven't read any of the digests but plan to this evening. I saw plenty of great music while in LA including; Jeff Pevar, Lyle Lovett, Stanley Jordan, Muriel Anderson, Alex De Grassi, Howard Leese (from Heart), Victor Wooten, Tony Levin, Laurence Juber (who use to play with McCartney and stole the show playing some great Beatle tunes on acoustic guitar). I got BSN yesterday and the package is just beautiful. I love the lithos and the artwork on the CD itself. I think Robbie out did even himself on this one. Truly a collectors dream. I think I will buy a couple more of these to give as Valentine's presents. It is a bitter sweet time for me this week losing dear friends and gaining new ones and so much wonderful music and friendship. It's good to be home again. Best wishes to all. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:08:50 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: mother and child reunion I remember this event very vividly. Wally had a page on his site (jonimitchell.com) called the Cafe, which was kind of a bulletin board where fans could send Wally an email and then he would post the email plus his response on the page. Wally, at the time (early spring 1997), did not want to manage a listserv and the JMDL was only a couple of months old at that point. A message came into the Cafe from Kilauren's boyfriend asking if he could get more information about Joni for a friend of his who thought that maybe Joni could be her mother. Wally immediately emailed this person back and asked them specific questions which they matched in several categories. When Wally felt that this person was legit he then relayed their contact information to Joni's manager and within a week or so (i think) Kilauren received the famous call from Joni. Just thinking about this gets me verklempt all over again!!!! One aspect of Wally's personality that was KEY in this transaction was his integrity. He was always completely respectful of Joni's privacy and was very careful that this person didn't end up to be just another crackpot. I can surely attest to this being one of the most rewarding events for Wally, even though it took a while for the commotion to die down before he received a message from Joni thanking him, her Wally of the Web! :-) Sue >I like the webpage, I'm glad the JMDL exists (which, iirc, wasn't a >creation of Wally but . . . Les? ack, I've been gone too long), but the >story about Wally that makes me happiest is that he played a part in >Getting Joni and Kilauren together. > >-Neil ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:13:14 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Wally, Joni, and Kilauren Neil posted about Wally's role in the reunion. These are my thoughts about that. I think everyone who reads Wally's story will see the intrigue he brings to our lives. Regarding the reunion between Joni and Kilauren, I would think that it was not only because of Wally's site that Joni and Kilauren met. But Wally's work did become a part of that reality. It did, and that is very remarkable. It begs a second question in my mind: why did Wally and Joni meet. Why did they talk on the phone? Why did she invite him on tour? Why did she have him to her house? I scanned all of the reunion articles again, and I picked out some of Wally's quotes. I was also reminded again that he was from Chester, Pa. I grew up no more than 3 miles from there. Chester is not a pretty town. It's Southwest Philadelphia. It's tough-white and poor-black. It is not a place of kind deeds. He said when he started the site: "I believe I was led to create that site…I thought, maybe it's up to me to do it. When I got ill, I was thinking about life and what I'd accomplished and what I hadn't. I realized that there was a lot I could have been doing." When he started the site he couldn't have been thinking about Joni and Kilauren getting together. He was sick. Probably frightened. He felt pressure to do something good. He loved Joni's music. He loved to collect and archive. He understood technology. He bought a modem. He just wanted to give. We can see he had a lot of pride in his work. It was too good. Too professional. He wasn't doing this for ordinary reasons. It was passion. I once heard the only difference between passion and lust was in the tense of the Greek root. Passion was expressive; lust was possessive. Wally's work was passionate. Maybe Joni could feel that. Maybe she could feel that this man's work was selfless, not selfish. Wally was giving, not taking. And she surely felt by then that a lot of people had taken from her. In his post to his site after he visited Joni's house in December, he said: "I know I had always hoped Joni would appreciate the quality and intent of JM.com, and the fact that the Web can do good things for her. I hoped she'd know that this project had my heart in it, in its purest form. Underneath it all, I think I really wanted to feel that Joni would come to consider me a friend." Of course, Kilauren read his site, and it did help her make her way to Joni. And that had to count for something in Joni's eyes. It had to count in Wally's eyes too. I think he started the site as a prayer. An oblation. An offering. Something kind to do because he had become so aware of the shortness of life. And to me, it looks like God jumped on it with both feet. "I feel that the Web connection to the reunion was the spiritual purpose of my project. The only credit I'll personally accept for the reunion is doing a great job on the web site. My work began as a labor of love, and more love still has sprung from it. This is the real magic and no one can ever take that away." Spirit and flesh and mystery. How does a man go in four years time from the loneliness of receiving a malignant diagnosis to helping his favorite artist heal her broken heart? And then come to embrace her face to face? See, that is what always stood out to me about the reunion. The adoption was the ache of Joni's heart. It was her vulnerable spot. It was the root note of all her chords. All those wonderful chords. That pain was at the very center of who she is as an artist. It's in all her songs. It's in all her pictures. And that became the very tangent point for Wally and Joni. I think Wally did something very important for Joni. He showed her that she is not alone in the world. Even when it seems otherwise, we are not alone. We have each other. There are other people who know our aches. Who can help us. Who can help make us better. At the end of his post about his visit to Joni's home, Wally wrote: "It was almost midnight. Joni walked over to me, and hugging me, she exclaimed, 'Oh Wally, I wish I could make you all better.' I wish I could make you better too, I replied…" But they did make each other better! I can see the swirl of love moving here. They are alike, Joni and Wally. Fearless. Wally's words again: "I think it's important that people understand the energy that created the site. It shows what people can accomplish when they face their own mortality." Though I never met Wally, he gives me hope and he shows me a way to God. He makes me want to reach out with my heart and not be afraid of getting hurt. After all, we are all terminal. It's just a matter of how much time we have after we figure that out. So I think surely Joni and Kilauren's meeting was helped by Wally's site. That was a blessing for everyone involved and it bears the markings of God. As if Wally said, Lord, take my simple offering, and God said, yes, I'll take, and I know exactly, exactly, how to use it. I also think Wally and Joni's meeting happened because Joni saw the significance of Wally's offering. She saw the work of his hands and she saw it help her and her child. And so she responded with generosity. And as Wally said so well, 'more love still has sprung from it." I think we've seen a marvelous thing happen here. We've seen love win over death. We've seen the realization of things hoped for and we've seen evidence of things unseen. We've seen divine friendship. We've seen broken hearts heal: "Flying back to San Francisco I realized that I now felt Joni was my friend. My very special, very loving, very talented friend." W.B. Make us know the shortness of life, that we may gain wisdom of heart. Give us joy to balance our affliction, for the years we knew misfortune. Show forth your work to your servants; let your glory shine on their children. Let the favor of the Lord be upon us: give success to the work of our hands, give success to the work of our hands. Psalm 90. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 12:23:03 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: wow, it sucks to be me ME, TOO! My CD also came loose in the box and has scratches all over it and skips. Damn! The packaging is beautiful but impractical, I guess. And my copy was shipped very carelessly - no peanuts or bubble bag, no nothing! Wahh! (howdy, neil - good to see you back) At 10:37 AM 2/8/00 -0500, you wrote: >Okay, so Tower Records barely opens and I take my morning break to go get >BSN. I get it, walking back to my office, giddy as can be. I open it and >look at th CD and inserts. The CD had come loose in the box and has >scratches all over the playing side of it. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 12:43:58 EST From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Namm/BSN In a message dated 02/08/2000 12:17:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << finding out about the Joni dates >> Joni dates? Did I miss something, or just being wishful? Is she playing some dates or touring? Or am I in "Dreamland"? Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 11:46:35 -0500 From: "Neil E. Orts" Subject: RE: wow, it sucks to be me At 8:45 AM -0800 2/8/00, Louis Lynch wrote: >Neil... > >Your story made me feel so sad for you. I'm anxious to hear the new >release, so I can relate. And the parts I heard were very nice. I am quite anxious to hear the whole thing. But after it made my computer freeze up, I'm a little reticent to give it another go! I was able to go to different tracks and hear bits of "comes love," but that was about it. I really wanted to hear her new versions of Case of You and Both Sides Now, but I'm afraid to try again! Okay, I just gave in and put the CD back in my computer. (Hey, it belongs to the University, so what do I care?:) A Case of You skips, so it's hard to say much. Both Sides Now is playing now and it's lovely. So far no skips. It's nice to hear her interpret this really "end of life" type lyric 30+ years after she wrote it. And given some remarks she's made about her past work, I'm pleased to see she still likes it enough to cover it. I wonder if all the interpretations of this song since she recorded it influenced her interpretation for this album. okay. I'm taking it out of the player now, before I have to restart the computer again. >But, what beautiful poetic irony in your story... > >"Now they only block the sun, they rain and snow on everyone." Oh yeah. That makes me feel better. :) - -Neil going to lunch. and Tower ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neil E. Orts * Director/Student Services * Office of Graduate Studies * It's easy to hang onto a sinking ship University of Texas Austin * The hard part's letting go. Main 101 -- 512/232-3626 * neo@mail.utexas.edu * -Jeff Talmadge fax: 512/475-8851 * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:35:48 +0000 From: Martin Giles Subject: Re: PWWAM viewing (SJC) Emily and Catherine were talking about Larry's facial expressions on the PWWAM video. He has always done this though. I remember the same irritation watching him on the 1983(?) Wembley concert video. It just seems to be part of the way he plays, he probably doesn't even know he's doing it. I can't excuse him the infatuation with the leather strides though! Actually his PWWAM appearance disturbs me for another reason. He's the spitting image of a bass playing acquaintance of mine, right down to the receding hairline and the five string Musicman bass. The bloke I know is a complete fake in a lot of ways (and a pretty poor player as well), and to see him appear, backing my beloved Joni the first time I put the video on was a shock, I can tell you :-[ As for the expressions, so many musicians screw their faces up that I can usually ignore it these days. Seem to recall that John Lydon is not exactly poker faced when he's on stage anyway! atb, Martin in London. PS Horrible thought...I hope Larry Klein never decides to use a wah-wah pedal on his bass. ;-) > Emily writes: > >my friend says, "who the hell is that > >chump?" gesturing towards larry, and i explained, getting > >irked but also giggling. my friend said "why is he playing > >bass like he has to make up for the fact that he's not > >jaco?" and i disagreed and tried to argue. but there > >was no arguing and my friend was relentless in poking fun > >at larry the whole time we watched the video. > > > >and you know what? now I'VE caught the bug and i DO find > >larry's oh-so-into-it facial expressions and such kind > >of annoying. or i did last night, i should say. > > > >isn't that annoying? i'm annoyed that he's gotten me annoyed > >about larry! > > Emily, now that you mention it... I wondered while viewing this video > whether Larry Klein was bugging me because of all the Larry-bashing that > happens around here and maybe I was being influenced by others. I kept > trying to tell myself, "Be nice, now..." I must admit, I find him really > irritating too. I kept hoping they'd keep the camera off him. There are > closeup shots of all the other musicians playing and they just play. They > look like they're enjoying it, but they're into the music. Klein seems to > be smirking or somehow suggesting - "Hey, look at me! Am I cool or what!" > OK, so maybe I'm being bitchy about it. So, sue me, but I'm with your > friend, Emily (but not a fan of the Sex Pistols.) > > Catherine (in Toronto) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:43:14 +0000 From: Martin Giles Subject: Wally Like everyone who has posted about Wally, I was very saddened to hear of his death. I'm a newcomer to the list and never had any contact with him, but have gained a sense of his greatness from all of you. His love of Joni has led to so many good things, not least of which was the reunion of Joni with her long lost daughter. He had a lot to be proud of himself for, and even though I never knew him personally, I will always remember him with the greatest of respect. atb, Martin. In London. PS Does anyone know if Joni has heard the news? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 18:21:49 +0000 From: catman Subject: House Of The Rising Sun NJC Does anyone know the origins of this song? I just saw a 1964 film of The Animals singing it. It doesn't sound like it is original to them but I don't know. i really like this song so would be interested to know it's origins. It sounds to me like it is a 'blues' type song. It reminds me of Furry Sings The Blues on Hejira.(not in tune but in feel) - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 11:22:00 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: wow, it sucks to be me From: "Catherine McKay" Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 17:47:09 GMT Oh cripes, I hope this isn't the start of a trend! Sounds like someone may have been in a last-minute rush to get these things out? I ordered through CD-Now and somehow they "accidentally" can.celled my order, then emailed me to say they had reordered it and apologized and all that, but my order status still shows "processing", which means it's not even shipped yet. I wonder if I should just can.cel and wait? Neil wrote: > >Okay, so Tower Records barely opens and I take my morning break to go get > >BSN. I get it, walking back to my office, giddy as can be. I open it >and > >look at th CD and inserts. The CD had come loose in the box and has > >scratches all over the playing side of it. And Deb Replied: >ME, TOO! My CD also came loose in the box and has scratches all over it >and skips. Damn! The packaging is beautiful but impractical, I guess. And >my copy was shipped very carelessly - no peanuts or bubble bag, no nothing! >Wahh! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 18:29:24 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Wally, Joni, and Kilauren That was a wonderful post. You know it is said that our lives count when we help at least one person to have a better life. That is all we need to do with our life-live it and help others to as well-with compassion and love. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 18:30:28 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: wow, it sucks to be meNJC Can you not return the faulty cd's? This would really piss me off. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 13:27:43 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: wally this winter is a shadowy forest where I stumble and bump into trees and see the fallen and crumpled leaves -- notes and memories of old friends that fly in the fickle wind and are gone goodbye Wally goodbye Fran goodbye Mom where did you go? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:44:56 -0800 From: "rick novosel" Subject: Dog Eat Dog A few days ago down at A&B Sound, a western Canadian chain responsible for Vancouver having the lowest CD prices in the world, I noticed that they had just replenished the Joni section with copies of most of her early and middle stuff, all HDCD and all for the price of $8.99 Can (which is about $6 US). The only two oddballs were DJRD which was marked import and sold at $20.99 and DED which was not HDCD and sold for $6.99. Since joining the JMDL I've decided to buy all the Joni CD's I don't own (six I think) with DJRD being at the top of the "to buy" list. However since it's a long time till payday I bought DED instead. This isn't the first time I've heard it but it is the first time I've sat down to listen and said "Okay this is Joni, there's got to be something here." So, initial impressions: 1. Despite the cracks posted lately regarding Larry Klein being "responsible" for DED and comments about Thomas Dolby's misguided efforts, I found I enjoyed the music quite a bit. I've never been a fan of Eighties synth-pop but I liked this. It had enough of Joni in it to be worth listening to. 2. Joni's voice, as always, is Joni's voice. Whether it's a young, clear soprano or older and smoky, it hits somewhere near the centre of my being. 3. Joni declared in the just-posted LA Times interview: > I feel these are difficult times and we all need to develop some type of . > . . discipline or soul nourishment or strength to deal with all the problems > facing the world, problems that are coming to a head in every department. >Even I wouldn't want to hear an album of that stuff right now. > I just feel my point of view is too realistic and reality is too bleak. Isn't this exactly what DED is all about? Of all Joni's albums this one seems to be the least about love and the most about the miserable state of the world. I think this last point is the one reason DED will probably never be one of my frequent listens. When Joni takes on the role of social commentator, as opposed to chronicler of the heart and mind, the picture she paints is too bleak for repeated viewing IMHO. I'll throw this out for comments if anyone can tear themselves away from BSN long enough to read about ancient history.;-) Rick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 13:58:31 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: wow, it sucks to be me Many of my friends have said the same. The cd is all scratched up because of the odd packaging. And one artist friend of mine said that lithographs is putting it nicely. More like Joni trading cards! Jerry np: LOTC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 13:04:58 -0600 From: "Mark T. Domyancich" Subject: Re: wow, it sucks to be me You shouldn't have to buy a new one. Explain to the dude behind the counter that it was scratched up and you would like a different one. Mark, waiting till March 21st At 10:37 AM -0500 2/8/00, Neil E. Orts wrote: >Okay, so Tower Records barely opens and I take my morning break to go get >BSN. I get it, walking back to my office, giddy as can be. I open it and >look at th CD and inserts. The CD had come loose in the box and has >scratches all over the playing side of it. I've seen CDs in worse shape >that played, so I try it out on my computer player (the only one I have at >work). It skips. It hangs. It made my computer crash. (I'm not >kidding.) So I have to go back and get another one before I can hear it. >How frustrating. Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 13:07:53 -0500 From: "Neil E. Orts" Subject: Re: wow, it sucks to be me At 1:58 PM -0500 2/8/00, Jerry Notaro wrote: >Many of my friends have said the same. The cd is all scratched up >because of the odd packaging. And one artist friend of mine said that >lithographs is putting it nicely. More like Joni trading cards! My thoughts exactly! I almost said that I'd seen trading cards on better stock! I don't know what they were thinking. I took my copy back to Tower and they graciously gave me store credit. I'll wait for the jewel-case edition of BSN. With my store credit, I finally picked up Shadows and Light, which I've never heard. Had the store been better stocked, I would have completed my collection and picked up Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, but alas, they had none of that in stock. So I picked up the STory's Grace in Gravity. And a couple of magazines. And I don't know why I think you'd care. :) But, yes, the BSN package is something of a scam. - -Neil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neil E. Orts * Director/Student Services * Office of Graduate Studies * It's easy to hang onto a sinking ship University of Texas Austin * The hard part's letting go. Main 101 -- 512/232-3626 * neo@mail.utexas.edu * -Jeff Talmadge fax: 512/475-8851 * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 13:11:31 -0500 From: "Neil E. Orts" Subject: Re: wow, it sucks to be me At 1:04 PM -0600 2/8/00, Mark T. Domyancich wrote: >You shouldn't have to buy a new one. Explain to the dude behind the >counter that it was scratched up and you would like a different one. Oh, yeah. I never meant to imply that I'd spend money on a whole new copy. Just for the record, I took it all back, got store credit and bought other stuff. As much as I want to hear BSN, I just can't justify the extra 30 bucks for a big box and some trading cards. But I did get Joni's Shadows and LIght, which I've never heard before, so that sort of makes up for it, right? - -Neil looking forward to the BSN jewel case release ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neil E. Orts * Director/Student Services * Office of Graduate Studies * It's easy to hang onto a sinking ship University of Texas Austin * The hard part's letting go. Main 101 -- 512/232-3626 * neo@mail.utexas.edu * -Jeff Talmadge fax: 512/475-8851 * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:15:06 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: House Of The Rising Sun NJC As far as I know, it's an old blues or folk song that has existed in various forms for quite a long time. The Animals certainly didn't write it, although their version of it is one of my personal favourites. Colin asks, of "The House of the Rising Sun" >Does anyone know the origins of this song? I just saw a 1964 film of The >Animals singing it. It doesn't sound like it is original to them but I >don't know. >i really like this song so would be interested to know it's origins. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:53:00 -0000 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: RE: wow, it sucks to be me Ouch but Ouch! Hope this gets straightened out for you and pretty damned quick. Les (London) Neil wrote : Okay, so Tower Records barely opens and I take my morning break to go get BSN. I get it, walking back to my office, giddy as can be. I open it and look at th CD and inserts. The CD had come loose in the box and has scratches all over the playing side of it. I've seen CDs in worse shape that played, so I try it out on my computer player (the only one I have at work). It skips. It hangs. It made my computer crash. (I'm not kidding.) So I have to go back and get another one before I can hear it. How frustrating. To add to the frustration of a having to wait until lunch to get a replacement, I have to say I'm not that thrilled with the packaging. The lyric cards and "lithographs suitable for framing" (give me a break) need a sleave or something. As it is, the edges of my copies were a little banged up from the shipping so the corners are dented. The shrink wrap was no help there. And overall, the huge box just can't be worth the extra 30 dollars. It'll be a storage problem (can't line it up next to her other CDs so well), but if it were more than just a big box, I could live with that. But it's not. It's just a big box. I don't know what I was expecting, but I'm pretty sure this isn't it. Overall, it's a disappointing trip to Tower. I still want to hear the music, though. dammit. - -Neil from euphoria to foul mood in record time ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:18:39 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: wow, it sucks to be me Jerry Notaro wrote: > >Many of my friends have said the same. The cd is all scratched up > >because of the odd packaging. And one artist friend of mine said that > >lithographs is putting it nicely. More like Joni trading cards! > Neil responded: >My thoughts exactly! I almost said that I'd seen trading cards on better >stock! Oh crikey - that's it! I'm cancelling my order and waiting for the regular version. I'm broke anyway, mumble, mumble... Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:20:05 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Wally, Joni, and Kilauren That was an amazing email. Good work, my friend! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 12:30:19 -0700 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: wow, it sucks to be me you are making me rather nervous with all this talk of scratched cd's and "trading card" lithos. i ordered the special ed. from cdnow, but haven't mailed my check yet. should i really forego the fancy schmancy packaging? even if i am a FANATIC? i thing catgirl (?) mentioned that her copy was scratched too. is anyone else out there actually happy with their edition of BSN? alison e in slc. - ---------- >From: "Neil E. Orts" >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: wow, it sucks to be me >Date: Tue, Feb 8, 2000, 11:11 AM > >At 1:04 PM -0600 2/8/00, Mark T. Domyancich wrote: >>You shouldn't have to buy a new one. Explain to the dude behind the >>counter that it was scratched up and you would like a different one. > >Oh, yeah. I never meant to imply that I'd spend money on a whole new copy. > >Just for the record, I took it all back, got store credit and bought other >stuff. As much as I want to hear BSN, I just can't justify the extra 30 >bucks for a big box and some trading cards. But I did get Joni's Shadows >and LIght, which I've never heard before, so that sort of makes up for it, >right? > >-Neil >looking forward to the BSN jewel case release > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Neil E. Orts * >Director/Student Services * >Office of Graduate Studies * It's easy to hang onto a sinking ship >University of Texas Austin * The hard part's letting go. >Main 101 -- 512/232-3626 * >neo@mail.utexas.edu * -Jeff Talmadge >fax: 512/475-8851 * > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:44:53 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Wally, Joni, and Kilauren Pat, I have just finished reading your wonderful post. It really gets to the heart of the whole Wally/Joni dynamic,a nd how this medium can be used to such good. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. Just by your quotes from the man himself, you can get an insight into what drove him, what he valued. Being faced with mortality, or even just a sense of not having done something in your life that you could look back on and say "yes, I actually followed my heart and did that", can become a powerful driving force if you have a passion that can be addressed, that you can channel your love, talent and energy into. Wally was, and did, all these things and more, and I can only admire and respect him deeply and be inspired by his own example. Rest in peace, Wally. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 15:39:00 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: wow, it sucks to be me Alison asks: << i ordered the special ed. from cdnow, but haven't mailed my check yet. should i really forego the fancy schmancy packaging? even if i am a FANATIC? i thing catgirl (?) mentioned that her copy was scratched too. is anyone else out there actually happy with their edition of BSN? >> Even though my previous post was that I got my confirmation from Amazon.com that BSN was being shipped today, I JUST GOT IT !!!! The packaging on mine was fine. There are a few scratches on mine too, but no skipping (so far). I admit that if I weren't a JONI FANATIC, I might have felt that this was *too* expensive for what you get. Since I am a JM FANATIC, I'm very happy with the satin box, the lythographs, and OH SHIT.............IT JUST STARTED SKIPPING ON "A CASE OF YOU"............Forget what I said Alison, and everyone else..........cancel your orders NOW!!!! A very disappointed Jimmy ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #80 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?