From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #66 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, February 2 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 066 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC Full circle ["Eric Taylor" ] Wales (NJC) [Winfried Huehn ] Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie (NJC) ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re: Joni in standard tuning, Harlem in Havana [Howard Wright ] Re: Biography ["Bill Dollinger" ] Re: Biography [Jerry Notaro ] Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie (NJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Bio_Feedback Joni Mitchell ["Catherine McKay" ] NJC Kate (not George) Bush Live Hammersmith ["Chuck EIsenhardt" ] Re: NJC Kate (not George) Bush Live Hammersmith [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Biography ["Bill Dollinger" ] Re: Bio_Feedback Joni Mitchell [Susan McNamara ] Re: Hejira vs DJRD (got an error message, sorry if re-post) [Don Rowe ] Re: S/he's Come Undone [michael w yarbrough ] Re: Hejira vs DJRD ["Mark T. Domyancich" ] Re: Hejira vs DJRD [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie (NJC) [Jason Maloney ] Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie (NJC) [catman Subject: Re: NJC Full circle Chuck EIsenhardt answered my post: <<< I always thought she was singing *you're not just liberation doll*! *Notches* brings to mind bedposts.... >>> Playfully responding: << It's 'your nachos'... ...and Drop the chalupa! Sigmond DeGreen >> Now this is the kind of input I would expect only Joni to contribute to our little list. If I had composed a masterpiece like Don't Interrupt The Sorrow & some smartass confused *notches* with bedposts I would just hope I could reply with a great comeback like *your nachos*! But exactly what is *chalupa* anyway? Sounds like something I MUST be guilty of..... Sorry if I blew your cover, Joni. E.T. NP: Madonna, Ray of Light __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:54:49 +0100 From: Winfried Huehn Subject: Wales (NJC) > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:18:10 -0800 > From: Steve Dulson > Subject: Wales (NJC) > > David Lahm wrote: > > >I'm signing off until next Monday: my nephew is getting married in > Cardiff, > >Wales and I wanna be there. > > I have just one word to say to that: > > Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch !! > > To which I feel compelled to add: Unless you have to ask for driving directions to Llanfairpwyllgwyngyll (I almost got a throat catarrh from trying to pronounce "Pwllheli"), I LOVE NorthWales! Went there last spring and had to spend three more days in the area than orgininally planned. Beautiful, extremely diverse scenery, a variety of coastal towns steeped in history. Steve, didn't you, as a desert inhabitant (well, almost), love the deep-green pastures? Despite the hilly terrain, N.Wales proved to be surprisingly wheelchair-accessible, too. I had no problems getting around. Great, funny people at the Conwy youth hostel which beautifully overlooks the historic town with its magnificent castle. Can't wait to go there again. See the North Wales page in my digital trip-diary http://www.stud.uni-goettingen.de/~whuehn/Northwales.htm (might look slightly offset on larger monitors) This place is Europe at its best IMO. Lots of green pastures to walk by, and you're bound to constantly have your eyes on the land and the sky as well! Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 21:37:18 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie (NJC) Jason said: >Thank goodness for common sense, Don and Catherine! >I agree with the *tongue in cheek* theory.....I mean, >c'mon...isn't that the most likely scenario? Well put, the only real conclusion we can come to over this is that he failed to be "politically correct". Unfortunately most Western countries seem to be full of contradictions. As an example, Martin Luther King has a public holiday named in his honour, and on the other hand whilst protected by "freedom of speech", white supremacist organisation (StormFront) has set up a web site called MartinLutherKing.org. to discredit him. I'm not trying to defend or judge Don Henley. Racism is wrong, no matter how it is intended to sound. When racism is based on hate, that's when it becomes a crime against humanity. Political correctness is a scary concept in itself. Isn't what you believe in your heart more important than what you say? We can't eliminate racism by just pretending it doesn't exist. No matter who we are, or where we are from, we are fortunate to be a member of a discussion list that is tolerant and generally free of prejudice. It may seem hard to change the world, but how many of us have really read the quotation that appears at the bottom of many messages: "To change the world-change yourself" Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 06:17:28 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: WTRF/Richie/Henley In a message dated 2/1/00 8:39:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, ekg200@is5.nyu.edu writes: << so many people have written with eloquence about why WTRF is a good listen, so i'm going to keep spinning it... but so far, the many many many references to "love" are just irking me. seems way too pat for this person i've known as such a brilliant poet. >> I love WTRF and it was still nice to read other opinions on thoughts on the album, so thanks for the thread prompt Emily! I can see your point about the "many many references to "love." It can seem banal and pat, but after getting to my 40's, I've found my philosophical base shift from "Life is weird and I can't figure it out" to "life is short and love is precious." I know that I'm no brilliant poet, (although I'd accept nominations for brilliant kitchen floor washer), but if you work for me, are adopted by me or are one of my friends, you'll be sure to hear me slip in many references to "love," or "unconditional love" in my pontifications. I firmly believe that "love" is the base of being a reliable friend and a terrific parent. Given the opportunity, I can also stretch the dogma to fit being a good accountant and successful supervisor. Joni's references to "love" on WTRF are, to me, almost an equivalent of a kid getting a new x, y or z and being so thrilled that the only exclamation that can be uttered is "isn't this neat? I love it!" over and over again. While the phrase may be pat, the emotion and joy is always eloquent and a treasure to be honored. For me, it's a nice change to hear this woman, who often seems to have been beaten by unfulfilled expectations of love, ("Lesson in Survival" and "Willie" are two that come to mind), to hear this collection of love songs that go beyond that weary resignation of "Amelia." Within this too, she's no dummy as witnessed by the title song: "WTRF." I think it is a companion/contrasting piece to her adaptation of Corinthians, "Love." For me, WTRF is often a song about two people falling in love, but suspicious of it. She thinks that he needs to be tamed, he thinks he is seeing a trap. That dovetails so nicely with the latter song and the lines: "and began to see, through a glass darkly." and "whereas a child, I saw it face to face, now I only know it in parts." Doesn't it seem that if the people in WTRF could embrace, "Love sees as a child sees," they would spend more time being good to and for each other and less time running away from/trying to trap each other? I could go on and on about this album, I love it! MG np: tail end of insomnia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 07:37:47 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: WTRF/Richie/Henley In a message dated 2/2/00 5:19:31 AM US Central Standard Time, MGVal@aol.com writes: << For me, WTRF is often a song about two people falling in love, but suspicious of it. She thinks that he needs to be tamed, he thinks he is seeing a trap. That dovetails so nicely with the latter song and the lines: "and began to see, through a glass darkly." and "whereas a child, I saw it face to face, now I only know it in parts." >> And the "glass", in most of the Biblical translations I've read, is a mirror, which is saying to me that as love grows we see/care about ourselves less and transition from looking at ourselves only and loving face to face with others... I've always loved WTRF, never disliked any song on it...at that time there were three records I listened to a lot. "Thriller" to pick me up, Willie Nelson's "Stardust" to relax me, and WTRF to just carry on day to day... Bob NP: Macy Gray, "I Can't Wait to Meetchu" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 07:44:53 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers That Resonate With The Music/DJRD In a message dated 2/1/00 9:24:40 PM US Central Standard Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << I know that lots of JMDLers love Hejira, and I do too but I have always viewed Hejira as a _sequel_ to her masterwork. [ D o n n i n g Flame Suit!!! Retreating from the wrath of the Hejira choir.] >> Maybe the word you're looking for is "warmup" or even "prequel"...Hejira couldn't have been a sequel if it came before, right? But your point is well taken - she certainly took the "sound" of Hejira and pushed the envelope on DJRD. I actually look at the two records sometime as a 3-record set... And while we're talking about the cover...question here for the visual artists. I think (aided by the wonderful commentary of the JM Companion) the theme of DJRD is Duality itself, the Eagle vs. the Serpent thing. The colors on the cover, the blue and the rust, are they considered opposite colors? I mean from a color spectrum standpoint, would the simple contrast of those two colors represent the duality of the record? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 08:26:27 EST From: Kleronomos@aol.com Subject: going off-list.... Greetings, Joniphiles! I'm going off-list for a while, to focus on needful things. But feel free to drop me a line with news or to continue any private conversations. with love Dan NP (now praying)... for Wally.... we will keep you in our prayers, sir! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:28:08 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Biography Vince suggest that >for those you are planning to flood A&E for a Joni hour on >Biography, you might want to suggest a theme, too, that includes Joni >such as Influential Canadian Musicians, Great Female Recording Artists, >Rock & Roll Hall of Fame members, etc. > >If we are going to pitch a program to them, I think we have to pitch the >complete package or they will never figure it out for themselves. Oops. Too late. I already fired off my email to them. (We get A&E here in Canada, in case anyone is wondering...) I have to wonder - they're doing one on Farrah Fawcett (!?!) I can actually understand Dick van Dyke, but Farrah Fawcett??? Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:31:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: Re: Joni in standard tuning, Harlem in Havana >I had always hear Joni say that "Urge For Going" was her only song >in Standard tuning. This morning I read in the Companion that Tin >Angel & Harlem in Havana are also in standard...is that so? Yes - all three use standard guitar tuning: EADGBE I've heard her say that Harlem in Havana was her 2nd song in standard, when it's actually the 3rd. I think the reason HIH is in standard is that, when Joni first got the Roland VG8 it could only offer a wide palette of timbres in standard tuning. Joni was very keen to get brass, string, flute sounds etc coming from her guitar - initially, this forced her back in to using standrad tuning for HIH. But what a result eh?!!! Mark wrote (about HIH): >Has anybody else >noticed the mistakes in the tab for it in the TTT book? They have a >shape as 0 13 13 12 0 0, which should have been 0 14 14 13 0 0 (It's >just an E shape played an ocatve higher-sweet sounding chord though!) Do you mean the chord shape is wrong? -i.e the grid with the dots that's printed above the music. Since it was me that wrote the few TAB examples at the back, I hope it's not the TAB that is wrong! Anyhow, I definitely didn't use this shape in the TAB I sent, so it must be the chord shape that's wrong. I didn't spot this one anyway ... Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:33:49 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie (NJC) > what Jack Straw has just done regarding racism in the UK. It seems he hasn't done anything. People of colour are still the most unemployed, the most likely to die in prison or police custody, the least likely to be appointed to high ranking jobs.However, I think being a part of a persecuted minority is often a necessary thing in orfder to understand what it is all about. As for being British, what does that mean? Their are Scots, Irish, Welsh and English. The Scots, Irish and Welsh tend to think of themselves as such. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:41:50 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? >Catherine asks of Don't Interupt The Sorrow: >What the heck IS that line she says? It's printed on the liner as >"your >notches, liberation doll". Is that what she's saying and if >so, what the >heck does it mean? Eric responded: >I always thought she was singing *you're not just liberation doll*! Actually, that's what I thought she was saying too, but that's not what the liner notes say (and hey, aren't they always right? ;) >*Notches* brings to mind bedposts.... I was thinking along those lines. If that IS what she's saying, it makes me think of gunfighters who would put another mark or notch on their gun for everyone they had killed, or WWII bombers putting marks on the sides of their planes for every bombing run they had done. Like, maybe Joni has won this round, but maybe the next time, she won't be so lucky (?) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:44:31 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: WTRF/Richie/Henley In a message dated 2/2/00 6:29:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, MGVal@aol.com writes: << but after getting to my 40's, I've found my philosophical base shift from "Life is weird and I can't figure it out" to "life is short and love is precious." >> i thought this entire post was very nice. i especially loved this line. i go to school at night. part of the course work involves presenting a spiritual autobiography. a woman stood up to present her autobiography and she took out of a paper bag with some props. a card with writing on it, and a baby's rattle. her story was one we all have heard. her first marriage ended in 20 months. the guy drank. hit her. she left. she had a miscarriage with him. some years later, she remarried. this marriage has held. her second pregnancy was still born. that child she only knew by the heart beat of the fetal monitor. they delivered the baby and the doctors knew it would be still, and they told her. but it lived for a few minutes and died in her arms. the baby rattle was from the hospital nursery and it was a heart shape. and she has kept it all this time. a few years later, she had a child who is healthy. and now she is adopting a second. the card had corinthians 13 on it, and she said it was the only thing that gave her the courage to try and have another child. the woman is canadian and she married a coast guard officer who brought her to the states. i immediately went out to my car and brought in wtrf and gave it to her. and she started to cry when she read it. i told her to keep it. this was last week. i agree with you about joni here. though she loves like a child, i don't think there is anything childlike about wtrf. and thanks for your post.pat ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:51:46 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: NJC Full circle > >It's 'your nachos'... > >...and Drop the chalupa! > > >Sigmond DeGreen LOL - That actually makes a lot of sense! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:57:03 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: Biography I agree. Or even worse, they could put her into a 60's folk singing chicks week with Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Melanie and Mary Travers. No disrespect intended to those fine women, but I shudder to think! How about a week of Biography on the theme of Female painter poet dulcimer/piano/guitar-playing Canadian singers who have worked with Mingus? As far as I can see that just leaves Joni and Celine Dion. Bill > A&E usually does biographries in units of weeks, such as "Famous > Criminals" or "Famous Britsih actors" or "Hall of Fame Baseball > Players" so for those you are planning to flood A&E for a Joni hour on > Biography, you might want to suggest a theme, too, that includes Joni > such as Influential Canadian Musicians, Great Female Recording Artists, > Rock & Roll Hall of Fame members, etc. > > If we are going to pitch a program to them, I think we have to pitch the > complete package or they will never figure it out for themselves. > > (the Rev) Vince > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 09:56:35 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Biography Also would like to add that there are tons of copyright issues involved with doing one of these. We all know how "tight" Joni is with her catalog (and rightly so). It may well be that she already been approached by them in the past. The same thing came up years back on the ILoveLucy list. After a year in production, Biography finally aired a 2-hour version, but was only authorized to show it once. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 15:04:24 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie (NJC) Jason writes: >Thank goodness for common sense, Don and Catherine! I agree with the >*tongue in >cheek* theory.....I mean, c'mon...isn't that the most likely scenario? Something else too - wouldn't you say "Negro" is more old-fashioned than racist? The N-r word is racist, but "Negro" and "coloured" are old-fashioned and perhaps no longer considered tasteful, but not *racist* per se (not that I would use either word these days either). When I was a kid, I'm sure we referred to black people Negroes rather than black people, but I could be mistaken. My parents referred to them as "coloured people". (You have to wonder why we need to refer to people by their skin colour or ethnic origin at all, but people like to do that, don't they?) There is in the US a Negro College Fund (I may have the name wrong), and there's the National Ass'n for the Advancement of Colored People as well. These names were perfectly legitimate at the time. I understand that people with cerebral palsy were once called spastics (and this word may still be used in good conscious in a number of countries - I remember a few years back getting a letter at work from someone in either England or Australia who was writing on behalf of an organisation for "spastics" and thinking, "Oh, my Lord - you'd never hear someone say that here!") What's OK to say one day becomes a slur the next, or sometimes vice versa. (Cripes, do I ever shut up? Not bloody likely!) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:09:45 EST From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Hejira vs DJRD In a message dated 2/2/00 3:05:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, Jim L'Hommedieu writes: << Yes, the desert colors fits the primal sounds within. I love Don Juan's Reckless Daughter for the literary stories and the Pink- Floyd-like Paprika Plains, complete with the dramatically louder ending when the band plugs in again. I know that lots of JMDLers love Hejira, and I do too but I have always viewed Hejira as a _sequel_ to her masterwork. [ D o n n i n g Flame Suit!!! Retreating from the wrath of the Hejira choir.] >> How do we not know that DJRD was the prequel to Hejira? Was she just warming up? Or perhaps they are a tripple album that some record company executive shot down...ie "Coyote" and "DJRD" as a single performance as in 2/16/76 at the Spectrum? Where are those demo tapes?... Take care, Julian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:10:13 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Biography Bill Dollinger wrote: > I agree. Or even worse, they could put her into a > 60's folk singing chicks week with Joan Baez, > Judy Collins, Melanie and Mary Travers. > No disrespect intended to those fine women, > but I shudder to think! Well I happen to think that would be mighty fine company in which to be included. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 15:19:33 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Bio_Feedback Joni Mitchell Here's the post I sent to A&E yesterday, along with their reply: Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com >From: Viewer Relations >To: cateri@hotmail.com >Subject: Re: Bio_Feedback Joni Mitchell >Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 09:30:53 -0500 > >At 01:34 PM 2/1/00 -0500, you wrote: > >User Name: > >::: > >User Comments: > >I would really like to see you do a biography on Joni Mitchell. Not only >is she a wonderful songwriter and musician, but she is a visual artist >(painter) as well. Even for people who are not fans of her music, her life >story is a fascinating one and I know she would have many stories to tell. >I urge you to visit the Joni Mitchell discussion list website - >www.jmdl.com - as well as the Joni Mitchell website - www.jonimitchell.com >- to get an idea of what I'm talking about. Joni fans are intelligent, >well-read and KIND people and you would be doing a great service not just >to them but to the many others out there who may not be so fortunate to >number themselves among Ms Mitchell's fans. > > > >(I mean, c'mon - Farrah Fawcett?) > > > > > >::: > > > > >Dear A&E Viewer, > >Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding programming on A&E and in >particular, our flagship series Biography. Though we have not done a >program on Joni Mitchell, we appreciate your suggestion for Biography and >will keep your comments in mind for future episodes and theme weeks. Be >advised that we have over 200 episodes in various stages of production. > >Thank you for your comments and your interest in A&E. > > > >Viewer Relations > >AandE.com >Escape the Ordinary Online > >Biography.com >The Web's Best Bios > >Mysteries.com >Get Clued In > >HistoryChannel.com >The Best Search in History > >OriginalAvengers.com >The Original British TV Cult Classic ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:24:14 -0500 From: "Chuck EIsenhardt" Subject: NJC Kate (not George) Bush Live Hammersmith We've mentioned great live performances, and we've mentioned Kate Bush, but I saw no mention of the Kate Bush live Hammersmith Odeon performance. This went straight to video (a two-night-only event) and is currently out-of print here. You might find it in a video rental place. Kate fans: keep an eye out for this. Truly mind-boggling Kate. Is this still in print in the UK? ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:30:36 EST From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: S/he's Come Undone Hello all, I hope I'm not the first to bring this up...but my wife and I were talking about all things Joni while listening to Live at the BBC 1970. At the point where Joni mentions her not getting to Woodstock and writing a song about the festival out of empathy...my wonderful wife exclaims, "You mean Wally Lamb didn't check his facts!" At first, to me (the semi-illiterate member of this rockin' duo), this was a beautiful nonsequitor, but I had to ask, "Huh? What?" Susan, my wife then ran to a bookshelf, found She's Come Undone and quickly found the offending page (pg 213 in the Washington Sq. Press paperback edition...) and triuphantly read aloud to me, "Naomi alughed, 'That was the thing about Woodstock. You didn't think of people as individuals. We were all this...mass enitity.' 'Oh,' I said. 'Right.' She must have seen my disappointment. 'I was two people back from Joni Mitchell in the portable toilet line, though,' she said. 'Joni Mitchell used the public toilets?' 'Well, yeah. See, the whole point was that we're all one, you know You and me and Joni and your tall, skinny friend: a bunch of equals sharing the same small planet. It was a rush - very political!'" Needless to say, we had a good laugh at W.L's expense...Besides the fact that both of us see the event of Woodstock and the described non-event of standing behind Joni in the portapotty line as "spiritual" and not "political." Take care, Julian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:31:15 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Joni photos Check out my Day At The Garden photos here: http://www.jonimitchell.com/GardenPhotos.html >Hey everyone! > I am desperately seeking Joni photos from various concerts from her >'98 tour: Vancouver, Chicago, Joni's Jazz in NYC. I'm doing covers for all >my CD's and well, I'd be willing to trade and/ or supply CD's and covers >for photo suppliers, or $$.(BTW, I have to do something with this >Commercial Art degree...) My trade list is available if you email me >privately. > I thank you in advance, >Talk to me! > > >Steve ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:40:58 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC Kate (not George) Bush Live Hammersmith Chuck EIsenhardt wrote: > We've mentioned great live performances, and we've mentioned Kate Bush, > but I saw no mention of the Kate Bush live Hammersmith Odeon performance. > This went straight to video (a two-night-only event) and is currently out-of > print here. > You might find it in a video rental place. Kate fans: keep an eye out for > this. > > Truly mind-boggling Kate. Is this still in print in the UK? I never became a fan of hers until I saw this live performance on tape. Truly amazing. Made me realize how much Madonna had copied this wonderful performer. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 07:38:47 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Hejira vs DJRD Hmmm ... I'm not entirely convinced that 'Hejira' and DJRD aren't anything but two completely separate and distinct projects. Yes, some will argue, and with good reason, that DJRD's title track and 'Coyote' are based on the same guitar figure -- but I think any substantive comparisons can pretty much go to bed after that. From an orchestration and arrangement standpoint, DJRD has much more in common with FTR than 'Hejira.' The dynamics are much wider, as are the styles Joni employs -- there's no two cuts on 'Hejira' that come anywhere near the difference between, say, "Silky Veils" and "Paprika Plains" for example. If you prefer the art metaphor -- DJRD is more like a sweeping musical landscape -- 'Hejira' a razor-sharp black and white photograph, as it's cover suggests. Lyrically the two albums couldn't be more different. DJRD is magical, fanciful and mythological -- Hejira thoughtful, pensive and introspective. So, in the end, I'm able to love both albums equally - -- but differently. See Julian, not so much as a spark, let alone a flame ... ;-) Thanks for the intriguing juxtaposition. Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:47:35 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: Biography I agree that would be mighty fine company. My point was only that the general public still thinks of joni as a folksinger. Bill > > I agree. Or even worse, they could put her into a > > 60's folk singing chicks week with Joan Baez, > > Judy Collins, Melanie and Mary Travers. > > No disrespect intended to those fine women, > > but I shudder to think! > > Well I happen to think that would be mighty fine company in which to be > included. > > Jerry > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:42:52 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Bio_Feedback Joni Mitchell This interest in Joni being on Biography is so wierd. I had the same thought the other night when I was watching the Nick Nolte bio. The bottom line is whether Joni would agree to it. I'm sure they would have done one if she would have agreed. So whatever happened with the "storytellers" blitz this list put on VH-1 last year? Oh yeah, Joni decided to produce her own show: Painting with Words and Music. I think we need read the Companion while we're waiting for the memoirs. :-) Take care, Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 07:39:45 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Hejira vs DJRD (got an error message, sorry if re-post) Hmmm ... I'm not entirely convinced that 'Hejira' and DJRD aren't anything but two completely separate and distinct projects. Yes, some will argue, and with good reason, that DJRD's title track and 'Coyote' are based on the same guitar figure -- but I think any substantive comparisons can pretty much go to bed after that. From an orchestration and arrangement standpoint, DJRD has much more in common with FTR than 'Hejira.' The dynamics are much wider, as are the styles Joni employs -- there's no two cuts on 'Hejira' that come anywhere near the difference between, say, "Silky Veils" and "Paprika Plains" for example. If you prefer the art metaphor -- DJRD is more like a sweeping musical landscape -- 'Hejira' a razor-sharp black and white photograph, as it's cover suggests. Lyrically the two albums couldn't be more different. DJRD is magical, fanciful and mythological -- Hejira thoughtful, pensive and introspective. So, in the end, I'm able to love both albums equally - -- but differently. See Julian, not so much as a spark, let alone a flame ... ;-) Thanks for the intriguing juxtaposition. Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:23:03 -0000 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Re: Hejira vs DJRD Didn't I read somewhere on the JM Homepage that Joni herself sees Coyote and the song DJRD as companion pieces? Even from the first time I listened to DJRD the album, I felt that there were two seperate albums in the 'package'. I seem to remember that the music press reviews at the time also making that observation. The tracks for one album being Jericho, Paprika Plains, DJRD, Offnight Backstreet, Silky Veils and the tracks from the 'other' album being Overture, Cotton Avenue, Talk to me, Otis & Marlene, 10th World and Dreamland. The first listing seem to me represent a 'style' of work from the period up to and including Hejira and the second listing anticipating her works to come. For me there is a 'companion piece' quality to Cotton Avenue and Harlem in Havana. Certainly thematically but also in timbre. I also feel that in retrospect her vocalisation on those tracks from the second 'list' in DJRD anticipated the singing on Mingus. imho Les (London) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:32:02 -0600 (CST) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re: S/he's Come Undone I read this over holiday break (mixed reaction), but I interpreted this mention to be a sly characterization--i.e. the girl speaking was so earnest and eager to impress that her "facts" were somewhat inflated. Not unusual behavior for a college freshman. I wonder how many Woodstock attendees thought (or still think) that Joni *was* there. - --Michael NP: Lucinda Williams, _Car Wheels..._ - ----------------------------------------------------------------- "If I owned Texas and hell, I'd rent out Texas and live in hell." - --Gen. P.H. Sheridan On Wed, 2 Feb 2000 Julian51469@aol.com wrote: > Hello all, > I hope I'm not the first to bring this up...but my wife and I were talking > about all things Joni while listening to Live at the BBC 1970. At the point > where Joni mentions her not getting to Woodstock and writing a song about the > festival out of empathy...my wonderful wife exclaims, "You mean Wally Lamb > didn't check his facts!" At first, to me (the semi-illiterate member of this > rockin' duo), this was a beautiful nonsequitor, but I had to ask, "Huh? > What?" Susan, my wife then ran to a bookshelf, found She's Come Undone and > quickly found the offending page (pg 213 in the Washington Sq. Press > paperback edition...) and triuphantly read aloud to me, > "Naomi alughed, 'That was the thing about Woodstock. You didn't think of > people as individuals. We were all this...mass enitity.' > 'Oh,' I said. 'Right.' > She must have seen my disappointment. 'I was two people back from Joni > Mitchell in the portable toilet line, though,' she said. > 'Joni Mitchell used the public toilets?' > 'Well, yeah. See, the whole point was that we're all one, you know You and > me and Joni and your tall, skinny friend: a bunch of equals sharing the same > small planet. It was a rush - very political!'" > > Needless to say, we had a good laugh at W.L's expense...Besides the fact that > both of us see the event of Woodstock and the described non-event of standing > behind Joni in the portapotty line as "spiritual" and not "political." > Take care, > Julian > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 08:34:28 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Bio_Feedback Joni Mitchell Susan McNamara wrote: > So whatever happened with the "storytellers"blitz this list put on VH-1 last > year? Oh yeah, Joni decided to produce > her own show: Painting with Words and Music. > Actually, the planned Storytellers thing was chronologically after PWWAM. I know that there were at least two different dates set for it last year but it kept getting postponed. I asked Robbie about it after the gallery opening. He said he doubted that it would come to fruition now. I really wish she would do it though. She is probably more in "old standards" mode now and couldn't even think about playing her own material. Anybody hear anything about a tour for BSN? I need my live Joni fix!!! - -- Phyliss, hopelessly addicted pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:05:56 -0600 From: "Mark T. Domyancich" Subject: Re: Hejira vs DJRD Come to think of it, Hejira and DJRD (to me, at least) are two different projects. Joni had already written several songs for it before Hejira was released-DJRD, Talk To Me, Dreamland-and these were just leftovers from other projects. I think Hejira would be totally different if she had added DJRD to it. NP-Rusted Root-River In A Cage At 7:38 AM -0800 2/2/00, Don Rowe wrote: >Hmmm ... I'm not entirely convinced that 'Hejira' and >DJRD aren't anything but two completely separate and >distinct projects. Yes, some will argue, and with >good reason, that DJRD's title track and 'Coyote' are >based on the same guitar figure -- but I think any >substantive comparisons can pretty much go to bed >after that. Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 12:26:20 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira vs DJRD Mark said: <> As well as Jericho from MOA... Bob NP: Stevie Wonder, "A Seed's A Star" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 16:42:28 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie (NJC) Hi Colin, catman wrote: > > what Jack Straw has just done regarding racism in the UK. > > It seems he hasn't done anything. Perhaps *done* wasn't the right word. He (and New Labour) are making it quite clear what they value most and seek to address, and they plan to address it. They are concentrating on PC issues at the expense of other equally deserving ones, and making a dreadful, nonsensical hash of everything they do. > People of colour are still the most unemployed, > the most likely to die in prison or police custody, the least likely to be > appointed to high ranking jobs.However, I think being a part of a persecuted > minority is often a necessary thing in order to understand what it is all about. I understand and agree with what you're saying here. None of these things should still be happening in a civilised society. Yet it is not only the more high-profile minorities that suffer from continual persecution. I would class myself - as a long-term sufferer of a very musinderstood and despicably-treated condition by successive Goverments - as part of such a minority. Much of the terrible social, medical and work-related attitudes to people with this illness go undocumented and ignored. As such, I feel justifiably aggrieved to see a basic and much-needed review of the NHS and medical practice in general overlooked time and again, especially by New Labour's insatiable and dreadfully misjudged appetitie to appease PC-ness at the expense of common sense. People's health should be uppermost in the minds of the government. Operations, waiting lists, shared wards...all of these are essential issues. How am I supposed to feel when billions of £££s are wasted on vanity projects (Dome, Wheel) and frittered way on sub-standard TV and films? Jack Straw also was resonsible for the farcical Tyson epiosde last week, another project which was morally dubious and of questionable importance or relevance. Yes, racism and other similar evils should be tackled, but New Labour must stop all this distasteful posturing and rhetoric, and actually *do* something that brings eqaulity to those who need and deserve it. > As for being British, what does that mean? Their are Scots, Irish, Welsh and > English. The Scots, Irish and Welsh tend to think of themselves as such. If you're born in either England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland...then that makes you British, regardless of race, colour, religion or family history. Add to that being either English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish....everyone in the four home nations is one of these AND British. Unfortunately, New Labour are dismantling the whole structure of British culture almost on a daily basis. People from outside of Britian should, of course, be welcomed and given opportunities like anyone else....but not at the expense of those who have earned a living here for several decades and also been born here. Certainly, those who come to this country and abuse the system for thier own ends, giving nothing in return, should never be tolerated. Other countries would kick them out. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 16:52:32 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie (NJC) Catherine McKay wrote: > Something else too - wouldn't you say "Negro" is more old-fashioned than > racist? The N-r word is racist, but "Negro" and "coloured" are old-fashioned > and perhaps no longer considered tasteful, but not *racist* per se (not that > I would use either word these days either). I completely agree. I also think it's symptomatic of today's society that - as someone pointed out during this thread - Henley is even being suspected of outright racism for this isolated comment and use of the word Negro. I'm with Catherine in deeming the actual word as perhaps no longer tasteful, but this was 1982, not 2000, Henley is a Southern American, and besides, the banter between him and Joni re: Ritchie was most likely infused with large chunks of humour. In the words of the man himself..."Get Over It....." Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 17:18:49 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Joining Discussion Lists (NJC) Hi Reuben and Joseph, It's interesting to hear the experiences and views of other JMDL-ers who have been on the EBTG list. It was also the first mailing list I ever subscribed to (Joni came next, a day later!), and the frequent atatcks on other members can be a real eye-opener. I was on the end of some vitriloic abuse from the guy you mention (the infamous Pete Wu), as I think almost everyone on the list has been at some stage. Yet, as Joseph points out, the intelligence and knowledge underneath that provocative exterior is intruiging and at times very entertaining, once you become accustomed to his style. However, it can equally often be tiresome and - - to newcomers - quite upsetting. Most of us still on there have run out of things to (publically) say about EBTG and their music, not to mention grown weary of the constant bickering and slanging matches. It's fair to say the general level of dicussion on there is pretty poor, as are many similar lists I've been on at one time or another. Having said that, I've made some friends on the EBTG over th past 2 years, and I think there are more decent people on it who just feel afraid to post. The only one which even seems to come close to the JMDL is the Suzanne Vega list, although it's not as engrossing. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 18:11:27 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: S/he's Come Undone Michael writes: >I read this over holiday break (mixed reaction), but I interpreted >this >mention to be a sly characterization--i.e. the girl speaking >was so >earnest and eager to impress that her "facts" were somewhat >inflated. Not >unusual behavior for a college freshman. > I got the same impression. I think Wally Lamb was being tongue-in-cheek about it and that he knows perfectly well Joni wasn't at Woodstock. On the other hand, a lot of young women had long blonde hair back then - the character quoted could be both "eager" and mistaken. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 18:33:02 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie (NJC) Just a short resposne for now as I am off out: Of course people with disabilites are discriminated against. Not many people do understand ME even tho it is now recognized as a disease, at least here. I know from personal experience the prejudice shown towards those of us with mental illnesses. It has been shown toward myself more than once on this list. Mental illness is still taboo. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:08:11 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Rockgirl Magazine Votes in Joni (plus freebies) Good News...........I was at Tower today paging thru the music magazines. Picked up the January/February 2000 issue of ROCKGIRL magazine. the cover says "Rock's 50 Greatest Women of All Time" I was ready to battle if they didn't have Joni's name in there!!!!!!! Out of 50 she was number 3. The paragraph with her name says: JONI MITCHELL - Nobody has inspired more female singer/songwriters to take pen to paper and pick up a guitar than Joni Mitchell. She is a brilliant lyricist whose early experimentations with unique guitar tunings produced spectacular results" Also under the EDITOR'S NOTE, Carla DeSantis writes, "We've all been there. One day you hear a song on the radio and you are forever transformed. I remember the first time I heard "Help Me," "Magic Man," and "We Got The Beat" as vividly as I remember my first kiss. I wanted to write like Joni, sing like Ann and rock like Belinda from the moment I realized they existed. At some point, everyone has sung into a hairbrush or written a number one hit in the shower." Amen, Carla! PROCEED WITH CAUTION: FREEBIES & GREAT DEALS BELOW: Don't pay FULL PRICE for those books (Yes, they have JONI books!!!) Go to VARSITY BOOKS: http://www.varsitybooks.com/default.asp?affapp=offer&siteID=VnQgGeB9Pos-1GlfN5SioEIIT%2F%2AaGSc78Q Use these Coupon Codes: Save $10 off $25 + free shipping...code: GREEN (expires 7-15) Save $10 off of $25. + free shipping...code: SUPER128E Save $10 off of $25 + free shipping...code: Super355E2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Get a FREE pound of DUNKIN' DONUTS coffee delivered to your door............you just have to make it!!! And think of how good your little box will smell up the mailman's car!!! And be careful what you say to him/her if he hands you the box personally. Don't say, "hey, I have free coffee" or he may follow you in the door saying, "Don't mind if I do, but only one cup" hahahahahahaha Give your opinion here........it's easy to do (takes about a minute or two) if you've bought anything (CD, book, etc) online. Go to: http://www.ratingwonders.com/default.asp?menu=home Scroll Down and click on the box on the right with the Dunkin' Donuts logo. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Also, CHECK THIS OUT at drugstore.com..........you will get an Amazon.com GC or movie passes or MORE! (note: it's drugstore.com's choice what they send you) Click on 'let us surprise you with a free gift' This is for NEW and RETURNING customers both!! It's our One-Year Anniversary but you get the FREE Gift with purchase (up to a $25 value) We're having one big bash of an anniversary party and we want you to join us. That's why we've set aside a free gift just for you. With your first February purchase, we'll surprise you with one of the following gifts: movie passes or a luxurious spa gift set or an Amazon.com gift certificate or a 3-month trial subscription to Health Magazine We want to simplify the way you shop and help you save time. It's what we're all about. So take a little time to enjoy some rest and relaxation, along with your surprise gift from your friends at drugstore.com. Your surprise free gift will automatically be added to your shopping bag when you select any merchandise, excluding prescription or gift certificate purchases. Offer valid while supplies last. This offer cannot be redeemed for cash. Void where prohibited by law and good for United States residents only. If you're a new customer use this code for $10 off $10 or more purchase http://www.drugstore.com/user/promo.asp?code=rewards&aid=121911 This $10 promo expires today Feb 2, 2000 Limited to once per household. Offer expires Friday, March 10, 2000 http://www.drugstore.com/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Don't pay FULL PRICE for those books (Yes, they have JONI books!!!) Go to VARSITY BOOKS: http://www.varsitybooks.com/default.asp?affapp=offer&siteID=VnQgGeB9Pos-1GlfN5SioEIIT%2F%2AaGSc78Q Use these Coupon Codes: Save $10 off $25 + free shipping...code: GREEN (expires 7-15) Save $10 off of $25. + free shipping...code: SUPER128E Save $10 off of $25 + free shipping...code: Super355E2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Want a Gift Certificate for Barnes & Nobel or a movie theatre or more???? Send one to yourself and get a savings!!!! While you're there you can see why Sophia Loren shops here too!!!! :-D Go to: http://www.GiftCertificates.com/index.shtml?siteID=VnQgGeB9Pos-1GlfN5SioEJ3U9UZcyckGQ Save $5 off $25 Code: SHRECPN25 (expires 2-15) Save $10 off $25 SuperCertificate! (expires 2-10) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All this shopping have you working up a sweat?? No problem. Call toll free 1-877-808-8687 for a "Dove" Anti-Perspirant/Deodorant sample Save the number 'cuz there's a new offer each month. Laura ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #66 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?