From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #65 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, February 2 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 065 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Wales (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: TI's sound ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re: this woman's work (njc) - new album ["Matthew Hall" ] RE: Red Shoes NJC ["patrick leader" ] Re: Lush Life NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: temporary re-sub for Wally (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie (NJC) [Jason Maloney ] Re: Joining Discussion Lists ["Eric Taylor" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:18:10 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Wales (NJC) David Lahm wrote: >I'm signing off until next Monday: my nephew is getting married in Cardiff, >Wales and I wanna be there. I have just one word to say to that: Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch !! Have a great trip! ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ (Website under construction!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:53:18 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: TI's sound Following Debra's post, Susan said: >Turbulent Indigo is sad because it was being recorded >while Joni and Larry were getting divorced This explains a lot of the emotion apparent on this album. As an example, you can see anger born out of frustration in songs such as "Turbulent Indigo". Its as though Joni's emotions are the fuel that fires her creative processes. Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:31:51 -0000 From: "Matthew Hall" Subject: Re: this woman's work (njc) - new album I would defintiely give 'the red shoes' another chance. It is a strange album for me; my friend taped me the singles from it, which I really liked - they are quite accessible, but of course, the rest of the album was a surprise. I liked it first, then i thought it was a bit lacking, but I think in places, it is intensely personal. Lily is definitely a fave of mine. I have to say, I never seem to rate it that highly, but if I actually think about it, there's not really a song on it that I don't like. I have only owned this album for a few months, but I'm at the stage now where I'm starting to love it. My friend didn't like it for about a year, and now he is orgasmic when he thinks about it (very highly strung). Listen again, then leave it for a while, and see. then again, maybe it just isn't for you. With regards to a new album, she was doing one a while ago, which had something to do with Stone Henge, don't ask! but then she scrapped it. One is expected late this year, but who knows? I think it stems from when she really had to rush the release of Lionheart - she only actually wrote about two new songs for that album, and it wasn't a very pleasant experience recording it. She's a bit of a studio maniac, but you can be too much of a perfectionist. Isn't it weird to think what she might be up to now? She's hard to predict at the best of times. Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 20:02:19 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Lush Life NJC i liked tube's thoughts on this song, especially since donna's summer's version is my favorite, too. i think i first heard the song from rickie lee jones live, just a week or so before she recorded it (on the 'girl at her volcano' ep). as heather writes, queen latifah's version is beautiful. and linda ronstadt's version arranged by nelson riddle is pristine, though he throws it into waltz time on the 'a week in paris' verse, which has always driven me crazy. tube talks mostly about the music. i might have thought it was a woman's song, too, but i recently read a great bio of billy strayhorn (duke ellington's closest collaborator, who wrote the song). strayhorn was openly gay, had three long relationships and each man was close to him until he died. nevertheless, he had drinking problems, self-acceptance problems (his contributions to duke's work were drastically undercredited, sometimes because he didn't care). i know it might be a woman's or a man's or anyone's song, but to me it's now a song coded to gay life in a certain era. the references ('all the gay places' and 'distingue traces') were probably purposeful double-entendres at a time when 'gay' meant 'homosexual' to only a few insiders. i certainly don't think this lessens the song, any more than knowing that joni was writing about a certain corner of homosexual longing in 'two gray rooms'. after i bought the bio i picked up a strayhorn collection that includes him singing the song. not a great voice, but the connection with the lyrics is just amazing. really one of my favorite songs. patrick np - george michael and mary j blige - as - (stevie wonder) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 20:22:28 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Red Shoes NJC hey i was bummed, too. 'the red shoes' is unbelievably inconsistent and can't hold a candle to her first 6 albums, but it has some huge treasures on it. i mentioned 'moments of pleasure' earlier. that song is one of my closest friends; i cannot tell you haw many times i've clung to its advice, which is to remember the best times woth those you've loved and lost; it keeps them alive. and the moments she describes are so humble and homely; it's the detail that makes the song brilliant. that song was one of a sparse collection of warm blankets for my soul in the worst winter of grief i lived through. there are a number of other great songs on the album, i hope you'll at least wade through the album to salvage the gems. hounds of love is my favorite of hers, one of my top 5 albums by anyone. ever. you all know how many joni albums that puts her ahead of... and 'the dreaming' is wonderful, though i hate 'there goes a tenner'. i was a little disappointed in the sensual world at first, but over the years i've grown to love it very deeply and now put it near the top of her work. 'love and anger', 'never be mine', 'this woman's work'; these are among the finest songs she's recorded patrick np - george michael - fantasy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:33:03 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Lush Life NJC > >"Lush Life" by Billy Strayhorn is extremely difficult to sing. > > Yes, it's a woman's song. Well I'd say this is debatable. Especially considering that Strayhorn was openly gay. I also first heard Donna Summer's version of this song and I thought she did a pretty nice job with it, surprisingly enough. Linda Ronstadt also did it on one of her standards albums but I don't think she quite captured the real essence of it. The best version I've heard is Johnny Hartman's on 'John Coltrane & Johnny Hartman'. Somehow it doesn't surprise me that Sinatra couldn't pull it off. I've always felt that he was way over-rated. Mark in Seattle (ducking) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:42:58 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: temporary re-sub for Wally (NJC) > So I'm re-subbing to express my sadness and share it with the group. > > And if Wally is monitoring the list, Thanks for the website and the hours > of labor it represents. Peace to you. > > -Neil Nice to see your name on the list again, Neil. Too bad you came back because of such an unfortunate turn of events. I hope you stick around awhile. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 20:47:27 -0500 From: "Chuck EIsenhardt" Subject: NJC Full circle Catherine asks of Don't Interupt The Sorrow: << What the heck IS that line she says? It's printed on the liner as "your notches, liberation doll". Is that what she's saying and if so, what the heck does it mean? (I love that song too.) >> << I always thought she was singing *you're not just liberation doll*! *Notches* brings to mind bedposts.... E.T. It's 'your nachos'... ...and Drop the chalupa! Sigmond DeGreen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 02:02:39 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie (NJC) Thank goodness for common sense, Don and Catherine! I agree with the *tongue in cheek* theory.....I mean, c'mon...isn't that the most likely scenario? There's a point where PC-ness just gets silly and beyond logic. Don't even get me started on what Jack Straw has just done regarding racism in the UK. I try not to get angry, but really..New Labour clearly despise what being British means. Unfortunately, I see a potentially heated NJC thread erupting from this even as I type, so I'll pre-empt it by saying that everyone's entitled to their opinions. I'm not out to slam down JMDL-ers views on such a topic. Either I'm clearly out of touch with the world, or else I'm part of the silent majority, but Blair and his cronies are very very bad news. Trouble is, what's the alternative? Jason. Catherine McKay wrote: > Not knowing anything about what happened here will not stop me from putting > in my 2-cents worth anyway. The impression I got in reading this is not so > much that Henley was really *angry* as that he was being rather > tongue-in-cheek about it and was ribbing Joni for picking someone who just > happened to be in the next studio and asking him to help out. Referring to > Lionel Ritchie as "some Negro" when he was in fact, quite famous and popular > at the time. I don't want to get into the whether-or-not-it's-racist thing > again, but I think you have to be aware of the context and it doesn't sound > (to me anyway) as if that was the intent. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 21:50:54 -0500 From: waytoblu@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Lush Life NJC . The best version I've >heard is Johnny Hartman's on 'John Coltrane & Johnny Hartman'. I second that motion. Johnny Hartman rules!!! I've sung Lush Life a couple of times at some jazz performances and actually did pretty well though it really takes some concentration. I heard a version by Ella and did not like it...it seemed too depressing for her voice though I have heard her sing some sad songs that I do like. Victor http://www.mindspring.com/~waytoblu/Tangled.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:01:02 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Covers That Resonate With The Music, was Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? Hmmm, not bad Yes, the desert colors fits the primal sounds within. I love Don Juan's Reckless Daughter for the literary stories and the Pink- Floyd-like Paprika Plains, complete with the dramatically louder ending when the band plugs in again. I know that lots of JMDLers love Hejira, and I do too but I have always viewed Hejira as a _sequel_ to her masterwork. [ D o n n i n g Flame Suit!!! Retreating from the wrath of the Hejira choir.] Jason Maloney said: > As for Joni album sleeves, I wonder whether the reason just about every one of > her album covers is both appropriate to the contents and visually pleasing is > mainly due to her being an artist. Obvious conclusion to reach, I know, but one > that holds true? Even DJRD, not my favorite of covers, is entirely fitting for > the music inside. (Why does MS-Outlook Express make me open up Navigator, when all I want to do is "Paste As Quotation"?) np: PWWaM in the next room. The bass isn't very clear here is it? The mix (by Joni) has an emphasis on the VG-8 and a quieter vocal. You will hear this subdued vocal mix again soon..... very soon, I guarantee! All the best, **All earthly comfort to Wally!** Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:32:31 +1000 From: john low Subject: RE: Matthew Hall guess which one I got Jaimie, writing about Matthew's choice of HOSL, says: "I think the imagery in this song is so perfect, so dense, so concise...oooooohhh I could go on. That particlar lyric, to me, is like a piece of Magritte, slightly surreal, slightly out of context, and yet a perfect description of what is going on, behind closed doors, under the skin of the suburbs. And it's not particular to the American suburbs either but suburbs in general. Don't Interrupt The Sorrow is just bliss as is Harry's House." Yes, this is just so true!! I was about to write in about the powerful imagery on this album when Jaimie 'stole my thunder' and, in doing so, expressed it far better than I would have. Nevertheless, I will just add one thought. The image that has always stuck in my mind since first hearing HOSL is "a dragonfly on a tomb" from 'Harry's House'. With striking precision this brilliant image sums up the central concerns of the album, the "shadows and light" at the heart of modern society. It is an image that is both beautiful and sinister and is haiku-like in its startling simplicity. Joni is a great writer and IMO her work on this album is definitely some of her best. Stick with it Matthew! John (in Sydney). __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:56:48 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Joining Discussion Lists Joseph Palis said it so beautifully: << ....The JMDL is quite unlike any of the discussion lists I joined in. The people were warm and affectionate and they respond to my posts whether on or off-list the way they do with others. Keen, mature and intelligent, they are conversant with all aspects of living and regularly posts very perspicacious messages fit to be published in magazines or academic journals. There were others I don't agree with; others whose opinions differ with mine, but the common denominator of all these disparate people all over the globe is the innate love for humanity and love for life. Being the only one from Manila in this group, I didn't feel as though I am that far from them, well, geographically yes, but then there was no place in the List that acts as the center of JMDL activity, save for occasional Jonifests. I love the way the group delved into the implications of Diana's death; responsible parenthood; and other topics.... >> I was torn whether or not to add NJC to the subject line but finally realized that this is certainly Joni Content! After all, the fact that Joni Mitchell has the best website devoted to a musician AND the friendliest discussion group many of us have ever experienced speaks highly of not only Joni but also caliber of her fans. Thanx for sharing this with us Joseph! E.T. NP: Hissing Demo __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #65 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?