From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #64 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, February 1 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 064 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? ["Eric Taylor" ] gentle people [Roman ] Lush Life NJC [Roman ] bereavement JMDL [Roman ] Re: Kate Bush (NJC) ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re: viscous lists (NJC) ["Alan Lorimer" ] Thinking of Wally... [jw1327@rcn.com] Joining Discussion Lists [Joseph Palis ] Re: Biography [TerryM2442@aol.com] Joni in Standard Tuning [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Red Shoes NJC [Roman ] Joni Biography [James Leahy ] Re: Joining Discussion Lists ["Reuben Bell" ] WTRF/Richie/Henley [Emily Kirk Gray ] RE: this woman's work (njc) [Louis Lynch ] RE: Ritchie Running Fast (Paints His Shirt Red) [Louis Lynch ] Re: Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? ["Catherine McKay" ] Being There (NJC) ["Michael Paz" ] Re: Biography ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie [Don Rowe ] Re: bereavement JMDL - NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Biography ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: bereavement JMDL - NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Rushdie & Joni (was Guess which cd I got???? What do you think?) NJC ["Ca] Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Joni in Standard Tuning ["Mark T. Domyancich" ] Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni in Standard Tuning [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Matthew Hall guess which one I got ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Biography [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? ["Eric Taylor" Subject: Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? Matthew shared: << ....the most popular one was 'For The Roses' , oops sorry, I mean FTR. And I did intend to get that today, because I really liked the sound of it, but I ended up buying 'the hissing of summer lawns' instead.... To be honest, at the moment, I'm wishing I had got 'FTR', but... I know that it can take time with Joni albums.... >> I must admit, of all Joni's albums, THOSL is the one I play least. I adore Sweetbird & Harry's House/Centerpiece but the rest of the album just isn't my cup of tea. I look at it as the turning point in her career which launched Joni's signature sound in Hejira, DJRD, etc., etc. I think it's sad that Joni's Hits CD is comprised primarily of the early songs. Misses is much more representative of her best work IMO. Go get FTR & TI ! E.T. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 01:51:01 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: TI's sound Debra Shea asks: << Does anyone else think Joni sounds extremely depressed on TI or am I completely off the wall here? >> When I first heard that Joni had titled her new release Turbulent Indigo I remember rejoicing that she would probably be delving into the darker side of the human psyche. & BOY was I ever right! The reason I don't find TI depressing is because Joni transforms sad subjects into works of profound beauty. It actually makes me happy that somebody can articulate human insanity so intelligently & artistically. & it helps me overcome depressing situations to sing lines from songs like Borderline: *You snipe so steady / You snub so snide / So ripe & ready / To diminish & deride!* There is an incredible power in such sharpness & I'll take Joni over Prozac ANY DAY! If Joni's voice didn't convey a sense of depression on TI then I'm sure I wouldn't like it nearly as much! E.T. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 09:41:40 +0100 From: Roman Subject: gentle people gentle people with flowers in their hair - Coincidental reading and hearing. Yes that was weird wasn't it? These things happen. tube ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 09:39:01 +0100 From: Roman Subject: Lush Life NJC >"Lush Life" by Billy Strayhorn is extremely difficult to sing. Yes, it's a woman's song. Sinatra actually gave up trying to sing Lush Life after several takes, and there's a legendary tape going around somewhere on which you can hear Frank repeatedly fluffing it before leaving the studio, slamming the door behind him in defeat. I've always tried to make a point of listening hard to every version I ever inadvertently catch of this song on the radio, because I fell in love with it the first time I heard it by Donna Summer. I still think Donna's version is my favourite. It's a really modern synthed-out version, a bit over the top even, and it whips along quite fast, perhaps too fast, some may say, but the real trick is that Quincy Jones produced Donna's version, and he of course knows a thing or two about jazz and torch standards, so something of this must peep through. Lush Life is tricky to sing because it's like tip-toeing up and down those weird little cranky staircases in an Escher print. Melodically it's not logically clear where the song is going, especially with all the pauses, so you have to sort of 'use the force' and really 'feel' the song in order to feel your way through the notes. Sort of like getting Lara Croft across the pillars of fire over the rat infested pool in TR1. Fall off anywhere, and you can't just pick it up and carry on. You have to go back to the beginning and start afresh in one long adrenalin rush. This song is a gush of emotion. Read the lyrics, think about them for a couple of months, let them stew in you, then go into the recording studio and just DO it! You'll know after two or three takes if you're ever gonna get it or not. Sinatra knew, and didn't waste any more time on it. tube ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 09:56:10 +0100 From: Roman Subject: bereavement JMDL Catherine wrote: >my Dad died quite suddenly Tuesday afternoon - I got the >news when I arrived home from work that day. Catherine my heart goes out to you. I live in fear of this. My parents are at that sort of age, and I've already started trying to prepare myself for a life without them. Not that I see them often since moving to Italy, but it's just knowing that they're there. The real pisser is that my parents and I have only just started getting to know each other for the last five years or so. Before that our relationship was strictly professional. I'm praying for at least another twenty years of their friendship, but it's tough to accept that that probably won't happen. Thnking of you tube. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 20:50:19 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Kate Bush (NJC) A lot of members have mentioned their favourite Kate Bush Albums lately. Mine is "The Kick Inside" "well, it could be love Or it could be just lust but it will be fun It will be wonderful" "Feel It" was definitely about *Lust* :-) Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 20:49:32 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: viscous lists (NJC) Tube says: Yeah, I tried a Doors list for a week or two once - They had me for breakfast. I probably deserved it - you guys are too patient with me! You mean you joined a list where people took you seriously??? ps: The Devil was outside my bedroom window last night! Noisy Buggers ;-) Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 07:17:41 -0400 From: jw1327@rcn.com Subject: Thinking of Wally... Hello everyone- Just re-joined the List- and want to extend prayers, love, and extreme gratitude to Wally Breese- He is such a sweet man- I am at a loss for words... We love you, Wally- What else is there to say??? James White ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 20:25:10 +0800 (JST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Joining Discussion Lists The first Discussion Lists I joined apart from those related to my academic program were that of Everything But The Girl, Mary Black (now defunct) and Julia Fordham and later the JMDL. I like the EBTG List because people were discussing the music I listen to. There were so many angry people there though who jump at you at the slightest typo error you commit or remark that don't sit well with them. There was this one popular flamer who uses so many sexist and racist slurs to get his point across, but in a weird way, I am drawn to this guy's facility of the language and how he can possibly know almost all topics that ranged from plumbing to neo-classical music to the artistry of unknown stage actors to the finer points of the military hierarchy. He caused the departure of a lot of Listees though who were disgusted at his superiority. By the way in his list of lists there are only two singers that matter: Liz Fraser and Lisa Gerrard. I left the list when it became obvious that 90 percent of the time, they love to personally attack each other so much so that they managed to learn each other's location and planned how they want to maim each other. I can't imagine how Tracey Thorn's lovely sad voice attract these kinds of people. I mean, I am one of them, I may be them too. Except for a few who wanted to discuss EBTG's music, most of the time the favorite pasttime is insulting one another. Being with the Mary Black Discussion List proved unsuccessful. There were a handful of posts which are interesting because they touch on Celtic Music which I wanted to know so much. However, we were informed later by the "moderator" that they are closing the List for some reasons that I didn't quite grasp. I only remembered that there were problems with an internet company or something. It folded not because there were no discussants but because of something more computer-related. The Julia Fordham List was much much better. The community of people there may not be as warm as the JMDL but were articulate writers who can write effusively about Julia and document her concerts to the minutest detail that are either heavy-going and tedious for some, or too delightful for others. I read those that interests me and ignore the ones I find difficult to read. People there calle Julia as OLG (Our Lovely Goddess) and it was fun reading the posts that concern more about the lively and literate stage patter of . . . okay, OLG. It was a great list and besides there were some compatriots who were members of the List and its great discussing with them about other unrelated-to-Julia topics off-list. I left the List later because of the volume of posts I receive everyday. Simultaneous to EBTG and Julia Fordham, I joined JMDL because of my fascination to Joni. I was a jazz fan at an irresponsibly young age (due in part to my buffoonish father who explains anything musical to his kids, whether they are aged 17, 14 or 5) long before I discovered Joni. I am probably one of those people who read about Joni first before hearing her. If its vocal music, there's only Ella, Billie and Sarah for me, then, but our Cypriot teacher in school changed all that. Before he left for Cyprus, he invited all of us to a drink and for some mysterious ways both of us talked about music. He discussed music the way he discussed economics: very academic but this time with some passion I didn't hear when he discussed the IS-LM curves. He told me his favorite is Joni and he discussed her to me as though she is a relative of his, or as though he is selling a merchandise. I was hooked. I joined JMDL in 1997. The JMDL is quite unlike any of the discussion lists I joined in. The people were warm and affectionate and they respond to my posts whether on or off-list the way they do with others. Keen, mature and intelligent, they are conversant with all aspects of living and regularly posts very perspicacious messages fir to be published in magazines or academic journals. There were others I don't agree with; others whose opinions differ with mine, but the common denominator of all these disparate people all over the globe is the innate love for humanity and love for life. Being the only one from Manila in this group, I didn't feel as though I am that far from them, well, geographically yes, but then there was no place in the List that acts as the center of JMDL activity, save for occasional Jonifests. I love the way the group delved into the implications of Diana's death; responsible parenthood; and other topics. I finally unsubscribed to all Lists when my computer sort of crashed, or the crash necessitated no further contact. When I was online again, the only other Discussion List I joined was the JMDL. I remembered being cut from the List and there were a lot of issues that spring and I couldn't wait to come back to know what the members in the List has to say about this; so that I can see the various perspectives of people. In the words of British writer Clive Barker: "You learn something new everyday". Now, despite some necessary verbal tussles between members, I post messages that I feel strongly about or say something related to inform others who may not be aware of it. I learned many things from the List and from the people who populate it. Joni fans anywhere on the globe are the same -- "basically good people". Joseph ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:00:43 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Biography In a message dated 2/1/2000 1:51:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, rhollis@home.com writes: << I believe the address is still www.biography.com >> Thanks, Roberto. Who else wants to flood their mailbox with me? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:09:27 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni in Standard Tuning I had always hear Joni say that "Urge For Going" was her only song in Standard tuning. This morning I read in the Companion that Tin Angel & Harlem in Havana are also in standard...is that so? I especially thought it fascinating that HiH was in standard after all these years. Apparantly Joni was so interested in the marimba and brass sounds from the VG8 that she forgot to twiddle the knobs? :~) Bob NP: Jungle Line ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 11:14:30 +0100 From: Roman Subject: Red Shoes NJC Jason wrote: >Is it just me, or was the Red Shoes a terribly disappointing album from >Kate? No Jason it's not just you, it's me as well. I too think she's peaked. I've followed her since '78, have all her albums and my favourite is The Dreaming, VERY closely followed by Hounds of Love. I think the title track and single 'Sensual World' is her finest five minutes ever, and I was so excited and looking forward to hearing the rest of the album if it was gonna be anything like the title track, but it WASN'T! When I finally did hear the rest of the Sensual World album I was HUGELY disappointed in it. I've only ever played it five or six times - once every couple of years, just to see if I could finally get into it, but I never can. Red Shoes, I cautiously borrowed from a cd library, played it once, and it was so awful I couldn't even be bothered to tape it onto cassette. Contrast this with the days of old when I rushed home from the record shops carrying The Dreaming or Hounds of Love on release-day, plonked the vinyl on the turntable and didn't take it off again for a month because it was such wonderful music. Likewise her first three albums The Kick Inside, Lionheart and Never Forever, which I mixed all together on two tapes and played almost nothing else for a year. I mean, it's not like I wasn't a devoted fan! - I'm a class two Kateophile. But clearly, sometime after Hounds of Love, either Kate or me changed somehow and things were never the same again. But that's either her artistic prerogative or my madness, so I'm cool about it. I sure don't buy her records anymore though, and I won't until she changes her musical style again, or until something within ME changes. But I know there's plenty of people around who think Sensual World and Red Shoes are her best. Different strokes... tube ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 08:56:19 -0500 From: James Leahy Subject: Joni Biography Same problem in Canada: CBC's Life and Times (our version of Biography) has done bios on people I've never heard of or people who haven't accomplished what Joni has. I suppose it all boils down to whether Joni would cooperate with such a project by agreeing to be interviewed for it. Also, such a show would probably want to focus on the mother-child reunion thing, and I doubt Joni would agree to air her private matters in public like that. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 06:15:28 PST From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Joining Discussion Lists I, too left the Everything But The Girl list for this reason. I was surprised at the foul mood that was the norm of that list. Too bad...there was some good information floating around there, and some good discussion. Terriffic band. Reuben >From: Joseph Palis >I like the EBTG List because people were discussing the music I listen to. >There were so many angry people there though who jump at you at the >slightest typo error you commit or remark that don't sit well with them. >There was this one popular flamer who uses so many sexist and racist slurs >to get his point across, but in a weird way, He >caused the departure of a lot of Listees though who were disgusted at his >superiority. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:56:30 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: WTRF/Richie/Henley hi guys. thanks to everyone who wrote in about my "first listen" to WTRF. it's been fun for me to read about matthew's new joni purchases...i keep thinking, oh god, what i wouldn't do to still have "hejira" or "for the roses" or fill in the blank here of joni's still unheard... i agree that even learning her music is a long long process. i've been spacing out my non-owned joni's for a while, relishing that there's work out there for me to discover. so many people have written with eloquence about why WTRF is a good listen, so i'm going to keep spinning it... but so far, the many many many references to "love" are just irking me. seems way too pat for this person i've known as such a brilliant poet. lionel richie sings background vocals on "you dream flat tires" (otherwise known as that song with a zillion "love is precious" phrases...please...). his voice doesn't really irritate me on the song (the lyrics take care of that for me), but i suppose it's the IDEA of lionel rather than the PRACTICE. but i enjoyed thinking about joni wandering the studio halls, yanking anyone and everyone out of their (schmaltzy) work and making them sing some stuff. funny! also, i have to say in lionel's defense that "lady (you bring me up)" is one of my all-time favorite get up and dance songs. the henley quotation is a puzzlement -- and thanks to lindsay for printing it on the list so i could read it -- some day i'm going to get that newfangled internet thing! what a stupid thing for don henley to say. never did like the eagles, i have to say. - -- emily NP: "the tenth world," DJRD ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:50:51 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: this woman's work (njc) Here! Here! Jason, I think Kate's "Red Shoes" is one of the greatest albums ever. The song with the phrase "don't want your bullshit, just want your sexuality" is absolutely hypnotic with headphones. And give the "Eat the Music" a chance - -- dance to it! And for the rest of the Joni fans, I've always wished for a collaboration between Joni and Kate Bush... just a fantasy, but I think it would be the most revolutionary musical product ever! Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:53:25 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Ritchie Running Fast (Paints His Shirt Red) A woman she bounce back easy, but a man could break both his legs.... - -----Original Message----- From: Roman [mailto:ramnix@pronet.it] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 3:48 PM To: JMDL Digest Subject: Ritchie Running Fast (Paints His Shirt Red) Where exactly is Lionel Ritchie on WTRF? tube _______________________________________ Visiting Rome? Visit RomeLife first... http://ROMELIFE.tripod.COM RomeLife Website - For expatriates, students, long-stay holidaymakers and anyone else who needs to know what the travel brochures won't tell you about living in Italy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 09:56:34 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Joni photos Hey everyone! I am desperately seeking Joni photos from various concerts from her '98 tour: Vancouver, Chicago, Joni's Jazz in NYC. I'm doing covers for all my CD's and well, I'd be willing to trade and/ or supply CD's and covers for photo suppliers, or $$.(BTW, I have to do something with this Commercial Art degree...) My trade list is available if you email me privately. I thank you in advance, Talk to me! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:01:36 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? >I ended up buying 'the hissing of summer lawns' instead All this talk about HOSL-ness now... I'm now reading Salman Rushdie's newest book "The Ground Beneath Her Feet". It's an interesting read, to say the least. Difficult to summarize what it's actually about because it works on different levels. But the main characters are a couple of rock singers and a photographer. They seem to be in an alternate reality which is pretty close to, but not exactly like, ours. There are various references to twins, duality, the death of a twin at birth and so on, (in the other reality, the dead twin may have been the survivor) as well as references to rock stars who exist in this reality, or who exist in some reality, but where things are slightly altered. For example, "Bridge over Troubled Waters" was sung not by Paul Simon and Art Garfunkel but by Carly Simon and Guinevere Garfunkel (whoever that is!) Elvis Presley is now Jesse Garon Parker (wasn't Elvis' dead twin brother called Jesse?) and his manager is Col. Tom Presley. Stuff like that that kind of jolts you every so often, which is appropriate because the novel deals with things being jolted (an earthquake figures in a major way.) To get to the Joni content, several times Joni's name is mentioned in the novel, as in a benefit concert where all the big stars are there - Tina, Joni and so on - he doesn't say their last names because *we all know* but he uses names of real people who exist in our reality, but then throws in a few that I for one have never heard of (this could be my own ignorance, but I suspect it's Rushdie jolting the reader again to say, Hey, this isn't real, you know, or maybe *this* is reality, so what are you in?) Every so often, he includes in his writing a phrase from a rock song or two, but it's so blended into his own writing that you get a bit of a tingle (rather than a jolt!) of "This sounds familiar... hmm, where've I heard that before? I dunno." Here's an excerpt: "Cruising to the ocean past the potato fields, the cornfields, the turning banks of sunflowers, the glistened polo horses, the sweet birds of youth and the tick-bearing deer; past the exotically casual American rich in their cut-offs, their halter necks, their chinos, their polo shirts, their classic convertibles, their Range Rovers, their monied old age, their gilded childhood and their potent prime; past the Shinnecock Indians trimming the hedges and cleaning the pools and maintaining the tennis courts and mowing the grass and in general tending to the high-riced, stolen land; past the honk of the railroad and the cry of the geese and the hissing of summer lawns, I was turned back, after a long age, towards thoughts of home." Whew - what a sentence! I hope you inhaled deeply before reading that one! But whaddya know? A direct Joni quote. Reason enough to read the book? Probably not - it may not be for everyone, but I like it (not finished reading it yet and wondering how it ends.) P.S. I also love HOSL. I can't remember how well I liked it when I first got it which is whenever it first came out, but it's one of my favourites now. I know it was widely panned at the time and that people made fun of the name and thought Joni was being pretentious. But what do they know? Ignorant Philistines, mumble, mumble... Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:06:45 EST From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: NJC Fiona Apple NJC AzeemAK@aol.com recommended the new Fiona Apple album on 28/01/00 Is this now an an official UK release? I heard it was import only. I bought "Tidal" from the bargain bin early this year (along with Nick Drake's lovely "Bryter Later") and found myself much more impressed than I thought I would be. Thank you Raffaele in London (I think) who mentioned Fiona Apple in an earlier NJC post. David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:29:40 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? > > > Here's an excerpt: > "Cruising to the ocean past the potato fields, the cornfields, the turning > banks of sunflowers, the glistened polo horses, the sweet birds of youth and > the tick-bearing deer; past the exotically casual American rich in their > cut-offs, their halter necks, their chinos, their polo shirts, their classic > convertibles, their Range Rovers, their monied old age, their gilded > childhood and their potent prime; past the Shinnecock Indians trimming the > hedges and cleaning the pools and maintaining the tennis courts and mowing > the grass and in general tending to the high-riced, stolen land; past the > honk of the railroad and the cry of the geese and the hissing of summer > lawns, I was turned back, after a long age, towards thoughts of home." > > Whew - what a sentence! I hope you inhaled deeply before reading that one! > But whaddya know? A direct Joni quote. Reason enough to read the book? > Probably not - it may not be for everyone, but I like it (not finished > reading it yet and wondering how it ends.) The way you described this novel, I thought I might read it. then I read this excerpt. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:32:10 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: temporary re-sub for Wally (NJC) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:08:02 -0500 From: "Neil E. Orts" Howdy, folks. Some of you may remember me, others, I'm sure, are new and would never have heard of me. I used to be active on JMDL and then got busy with life and ran out of things to say about Joni, so I un.subbed. But I was just at jonimitchell.com and saw the news from Wally. Maybe this has already been discussed, but I didn't have any place to express my sadness at hearing that his battle with cancer is ending in the least happy way. And I didn't ever have direct contact with Wally so e-mailing him personally seemed inappropriate somehow. It felt like an intrusion at a time when time is better spent with closer relationships. So I'm re-subbing to express my sadness and share it with the group. And if Wally is monitoring the list, Thanks for the website and the hours of labor it represents. Peace to you. - -Neil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neil E. Orts * Director/Student Services * Office of Graduate Studies * It's easy to hang onto a sinking ship University of Texas Austin * The hard part's letting go. Main 101 -- 512/232-3626 * neo@mail.utexas.edu * -Jeff Talmadge fax: 512/475-8851 * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:38:44 -0600 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Being There (NJC) Alan wrote: " For a chance to win a real live cuddy Tasmanian Devil, just answer the following question: In which Peter Sellers film did he say the classic line "I like to watch" while playing a character called Chauncey Gardener That would be "Being There". Michael Paz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:56:49 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Biography Terry wrote: >Does anyone here have any clout in getting Biography to do a story >on >Joni? If they can do Dick Van Dyke, surely they can do Joni. >Sheesh. Roberto replied: >I emailed this very request a few months back and received a very >polite >(and immediate) response saying that they get many such >suggestions and >that they'd consider mine. In other words, hold not >thy breath! (Of >course, I have zilch in the way of clout with A&E.) Is there anyone out there in TV land who *gets* the way this works? Do they make these decisions based on the popularity and/or fame of the person whose bio they do? Is it based on how familiar the producers are with the person in question? Or on a popularity poll? Whatever the case may be, even IF you were so ignorant as to not know who Joni is, or to think no one would be interested, it seems to me they've done life stories of some people that you wouldn't normally think would get there - - which makes me think that how "interesting" a person's life is may be a factor. I'm sure Joni's life has plenty in it that would be "interesting" to a lot of people even if they weren't fans of her music or her art (incredible tho that may be to even consider...) Would they ask the person for her permission or for her input, or would they just go ahead and do it even if she didn't agree to it? Just wonderin'... Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:13:44 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie The context of Henley's life, career and art suggest nothing of bigotry ... nothing certainly, as overt as this isolated statement, made in private to another artist ... that I am aware of. I would be loathe to pass a sweeping judgement of anyone, based on a passing 20 year old comment, made in private, in an angry moment. Maybe that's just me. Like so many other members of the 70s superbands, Don Henley (and the other Eagles) suffered more than anything, from a steady diet of sycophants whispering in their ears about how invinvible they were -- that, combined with heaping side-dishes of controlled substances ... made a great many of them say and do things they did not actually mean, were not indicative of their character, and that they would ultimately regret. Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:22:02 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: bereavement JMDL - NJC Tube writes: >I live in fear of this. My parents >are at that sort of age, and I've already started trying to prepare >myself for a life without them. Not that I see them often since >moving to >Italy, but it's just knowing that they're there. > >The real pisser is that my parents and I have only just started >getting to >know each other for the last five years or so. Before >that our >relationship was strictly professional. > >I'm praying for at least another twenty years of their friendship, but >it's tough to accept that that probably won't happen. First of all, thanks to everyone who has emailed me with their kind thoughts and condolences. Let me just offer this up for the taking or the leaving. It is one of the weird things of life, I guess, that it's often only when we finally get to know them and perhaps appreciate them and understand (sometimes) why they might have given us a hard time (so we thought) when all they really ever wanted was the very best for us, that it seems our parents are taken away. My Dad always used to intimidate me when I was a kid. I think he had that effect on a lot of people except, strangely, on young children who just adored him. My brother, my sisters and I were always so hyper-sensitive that we usually understood when we had done something wrong, or hadn't done quite well enough at something, without someone having to rub our noses in it. I sometimes think we learned by osmosis or something. My Dad never used foul language. He never raised a hand to me or to any of my siblings and only rarely got so angry that he yelled. He always seemed in perfect control of things and was always extremely organised. We used to joke about it but, we really had very few decisions to make even concerning the funeral. And all of his papers were in order and easy to find. Thanks, Dad - I wish I could be like that! My mother died 5 years ago of cancer. She had a long battle with it. It started out 13 years before that as breast cancer, but she seemed to have that licked, only to have a recurrence, but now metastasized to her lung and her bones, 5 years later. Despite all that, through chemotherapy and so on, she lasted another 8 years, many years of which were fairly trouble-free. Dad looked after her all this time and ultimately, Mum died at home, which is how she wanted it to be. Dad had a rough time of it, but the year after Mum died, Dad met, quite literally, the girl next door - a widow who lived in the next condo. They started chatting and hit it off so well that, a year later, they got married. Dad was 77 at the time, so it's never too late to find love, is it? Dad and Lily, my step-Mum would have been married 3 years next month and I know they really enjoyed each other's company and went on lots of trips together. They would have been leaving for Portugal last Saturday, but instead, we had a funeral. We are all grateful that, if it were going to happen, it happened when it did, and where it did - in the comfort of his own own in the company of his own dear wife. The thing I'm so happy about is this - Dad does not appear to have suffered at all. Lily says she was just talking to him one minute, then the next minute she turned to look at him, thinking he was having some trouble moving his feet (he had Parkinsons disease, so this happens) but there he was, slumping down before her eyes. At no point did he express any pain, and there was no pain on his face. He was probably dead instantly, in heaven, before, as the Irish say, the devil knew he was dead. Sorry for being long-winded but there's one thing that stands out in all of this, or maybe two things. One is, no matter how well you think you've got things planned and regardless of how you worry about what *might* happen, something ELSE always happens - something you never even thought of and wouldn't have in a million years. Therefore, what's the point of worrying? There is something in the Bible, I believe, that expresses this better than I could (maybe the Rev. Vince could help out here - it's something that was said time and again during the course of the visitations and at the funeral itself, but darned if I can remember the exact words. It's not "What? Me, worry?" nor is it "Don't worry, be happy", but it's not that far off from those either.) Of late, I've become a believer in something I call "divine irony", which is exactly what I've described in the previous paragraph. This is divine irony at its best and I know Dad would have loved it! The second thing is, we all hope we've got another 20 years, or another 10, or whatever. The fact is, we don't know how much time we've got. So, if you've got something to say to someone, go ahead and say it - especially if it's good things. Thanks to everyone - you are, believe me, a big help to me! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:28:14 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Biography Terry asks: >Who else wants to flood their mailbox with me? I am SO THERE!!! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 13:39:48 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: bereavement JMDL - NJC What a wonderful post. How sad it had to be labeled NJC. Joni herself couldn't have written it any better. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:56:09 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Rushdie & Joni (was Guess which cd I got???? What do you think?) NJC >The way you described this novel, I thought I might read it. then I >read >this excerpt. It's not really "typical" of the rest of the novel. The writer switches writing styles fairly frequently. Most of the sentences don't have quite as many words in them. ;) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:00:42 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: WTRF - Henley to Joni on Ritchie Don writes: >The context of Henley's life, career and art suggest >nothing of bigotry ... nothing certainly, as overt as >this isolated statement, made in private to another >artist ... that I am aware of. I would be loathe to >pass a sweeping judgement of anyone, based on a >passing 20 year old comment, made in private, in an >angry moment. Maybe that's just me. Not knowing anything about what happened here will not stop me from putting in my 2-cents worth anyway. The impression I got in reading this is not so much that Henley was really *angry* as that he was being rather tongue-in-cheek about it and was ribbing Joni for picking someone who just happened to be in the next studio and asking him to help out. Referring to Lionel Ritchie as "some Negro" when he was in fact, quite famous and popular at the time. I don't want to get into the whether-or-not-it's-racist thing again, but I think you have to be aware of the context and it doesn't sound (to me anyway) as if that was the intent. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 19:05:30 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: bereavement JMDL - NJC >What a wonderful post. >How sad it had to be labeled NJC. >Joni herself couldn't have written it any better. Well, we wouldn't want to get THAT thing started again, would we? Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:06:51 -0600 From: "Mark T. Domyancich" Subject: Re: Joni in Standard Tuning She talks about this one at length on the KCRW interview from March in 98. Yes, they both are her only standard tuning songs. It's interesting that in HiH she uses shapes she would otherwise have used in an alternate tuning (like 0 12 12 12 12 0). Has anybody else noticed the mistakes in the tab for it in the TTT book? They have a shape as 0 13 13 12 0 0, which should have been 0 14 14 13 0 0 (It's just an E shape played an ocatve higher-sweet sounding chord though!) NP-Tin Angel >I had always hear Joni say that "Urge For Going" was her only song >in Standard tuning. This morning I read in the Companion that Tin >Angel & Harlem in Havana are also in standard...is that so? Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua GO TITANS!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:20:14 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? In a message dated 2/1/2000 3:03:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, ewwt@netzero.net writes: << I must admit, of all Joni's albums, THOSL is the one I play least. I adore Sweetbird & Harry's House/Centerpiece but the rest of the album just isn't my cup of tea. I look at it as the turning point in her career which launched Joni's signature sound in Hejira, DJRD, etc., etc. >> Eric, Did I make you the Hissing Demos? I thought I did. It made me love the lp more after hearing the songs. I love that lp and put it in my top ten. Don't interupt the sorrow is a great song. It just moves me. The lyrics on Edith and the Kingpin are so well written. I love the whole lp and even like the Jungle Line more then I did befor. Her writting PEAKED on Herjira and then again on TI. She makes it looks soo easy! catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:25:27 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Standard Tuning In a message dated 2/1/2000 8:40:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << I had always hear Joni say that "Urge For Going" was her only song in Standard tuning. This morning I read in the Companion that Tin Angel & Harlem in Havana are also in standard...is that so? >> I read she only had TWO songs in standard tuning. Does anyone know what the other one is? Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 20:27:27 GMT From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Matthew Hall guess which one I got Hello Matt and the rest of the list I have been a little quiet at the moment as I am in the middel of rehearsals and have subbed to the only joni digest list and is a little hard for me to reply to individuals but I just had to reply to this: HOSL IS AN AMAZING ALBUM! I do love the title track as well as Matthew. The current line that is in my head during rehearsals (and annoying some members)is 'There's a black fly buzzing, there's a HEEEEEEATwave burning in his masters' voice...' that's all, not the rest, just that. I think the imagery in this song is so perfect, so dense, so concise... oooooohhh I could go on. That particular lyric, to me, is like a piece of Magritte, slightly surreal, slightly out of context, and yet a perfect description of what is going on, behind closed doors, under the skin of the suburbs. And it's not particular to the American suburbs either but suburbs in general. Don't Interrupt The Sorrow is just bliss as is Harry's House. BTW Marian has just updated the guitar section of the jmdl to include the 'Centrepiece' medallion, a task that I was going to do, you beat me to it Marian!! I couldn't think of a better person to do it. Wait until the whole album takes you by the senses and shakes it so hard to see it's ultimate beauty. Have a safe journey. Jamie Zooby "Whatever makes you YAHOO!" Joni Mitchell, Shiny Toys 1985 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 07:25:10 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: "The Ground Beneath Her Feet" NJC Catherine says: >They seem to be in an alternate reality which is pretty close to, but not >exactly like, ours..... Like most of Salmon Rushdie's work this book is based heavily on reality. Paul Simon and Carly Simon are obviously twins ;-) The Duality principle and people being stuck in alternate and, often cruelly, the wrong reality is obvious to any members of this list. The genius of Bob Dylan has often been maligned for this very reason. Think of Bob in an alternate reality where he turns other people's songs into classics, instead of the other way around: "When your weeeary, feeeling smaaall....." Take the overproduced end out of "Bridge Over Troubled Waters", add in a couple of classic harmonica solos and you'll realise what we're missing out on in this reality :-) Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:38:32 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: going away I'm signing off until next Monday: my nephew is getting married in Cardiff, Wales and I wanna be there. D LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 20:45:38 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Joni in Standard Tuning >Has anybody else >noticed the mistakes in the tab for it in the TTT book? They have a >shape as 0 13 13 12 0 0, which should have been 0 14 14 13 0 0 (It's >just an E shape played an ocatve higher-sweet sounding chord though!) Thanks for clearing that up. I knew it sounded strange. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 20:48:19 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? Catgirl says: >Don't interupt the sorrow is a great song. This reminds me and I gotta ask. I'm sure it has been asked and answered before but that was likely before my time here. What the heck IS that line she says? It's printed on the liner as "your notches, liberation doll". Is that what she's saying and if so, what the heck does it mean? (I love that song too.) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 20:50:38 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: "The Ground Beneath Her Feet" NJC Alan says: >The Duality principle and people being stuck in alternate and, often >cruelly, the wrong reality is obvious to any members of this list. >The >genius of Bob Dylan has often been maligned for this very >reason. Think of >Bob in an alternate reality where he turns other >people's songs into >classics, instead of the other way around: > >"When your weeeary, feeeling smaaall....." :-D Oh my, aren't you the clever one! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:05:23 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: TI's sound >Does anyone else think Joni sounds extremely depressed on TI or am I >completely >off the wall here? > >Debra Shea Sorry if someone has said this already (I'm hopelessly behind on posts again) but while reading all the posts on WTRF and it being so 'damn' happy it occurred to me: WTRF is happy because Joni was in love and getting married to Larry--Turbulent Indigo is sad because it was being recorded while Joni and Larry were getting divorced. You can especially hear the melancholy about the divorce in 'Last Chance Lost.' Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:35:21 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Biography A&E usually does biographries in units of weeks, such as "Famous Criminals" or "Famous Britsih actors" or "Hall of Fame Baseball Players" so for those you are planning to flood A&E for a Joni hour on Biography, you might want to suggest a theme, too, that includes Joni such as Influential Canadian Musicians, Great Female Recording Artists, Rock & Roll Hall of Fame members, etc. If we are going to pitch a program to them, I think we have to pitch the complete package or they will never figure it out for themselves. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:30:32 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? Catherine asks of Don't Interupt The Sorrow: << What the heck IS that line she says? It's printed on the liner as "your notches, liberation doll". Is that what she's saying and if so, what the heck does it mean? (I love that song too.) >> I always thought she was singing *you're not just liberation doll*! *Notches* brings to mind bedposts.... E.T. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #64 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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