From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #62 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, January 31 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 062 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Tube/Roman NJC - mailing lists [catman ] jdml cliques ... a handy reference guide [Don Rowe ] I'm back - NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Prince, diFranco and Joni (SJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: What's In A NameNJC [Louis Lynch ] Re: jdml cliques and hello again (NJC) ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: Companion in Canada? ["Catherine McKay" ] Se Habla Espanol ["Michael Paz" ] CNN Report (NJC) ["Michael Paz" ] You are making me blush! (NJC) ["Michael Paz" ] Re; cliquish [Gertus@aol.com] soda NJC [Roman ] Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? ["Matthew Hall" ] Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? [catman ] Re: soda NJC ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: broad brush [Martin Giles ] Re: "This Woman's Work" (NJC) ["Reuben Bell" ] DJRD, TTT Melodies and Matthew ["Russell Bowden" ] Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think?NJC [catman ] WTRF - Ritchie Passage [Lindsay Moon ] Feel Fabulous Forever... [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] NJC: Nerd's Quest ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: standards..joni's voice [waytoblu@mindspring.com] Re: "This Woman's Work" (NJC) [Jason Maloney ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:15:33 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Tube/Roman NJC - mailing lists To my astonishment, the now defunct carly list attracted a lot of abusive idiots. Made me wonder for quite a while how carly could attract such disturbed fans. The two boards in her name attract the same types. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:28:51 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: isn't she great (njc) Patrick, Glad you liked it. But I thought it was just awful. Her "best film work"? Now Patrick. Just what WERE you smoking??? xoxo Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:11:35 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: jdml cliques ... a handy reference guide Hello Matthew -- well you're certainly getting responses to your posts now, aren't you! ;-) I hope that you're not feeling singled-out for exclusion, I assure you that was not, at least, my intention. Are we a clique-ish bunch ... sans a doubt -- so to help you in the future, here's a handy list of the various jmdl cliques -- I won't name names of course, as the members of each clique know who they are! ;-) 1. ASAIDA -- The All Synthesizers Are Instruments of the Devil Association. 2. JCDNW -- The "Joni Can Do No Wrong" Club. 3. DEDMAS -- The Dog Eat Dog Musical Appreciation Society. 4. ANJCA -- Adamantly No Joni Content Association. 5. SEG -- The Society of Esoteric Guitarists. 6. JMAC -- The Joni Mitchell Audiophile Congress. 7. IBMS -- The International Brotherhood of Musical Sluts. 8. LKDL -- The Larry Klein Defamation League 9. FTR-RA -- The "For The Roses Rules!" Association. 10. Hejira-RA -- The "Hejira Rules" Association. 11. JBVC -- The Jackson Browne Vigilance Corporation. 12. NMJSS -- The National Merit Joni Scholar Society. Hope this helps -- and welcome aboard! Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:23:29 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: I'm back - NJC I've been away since Tuesday and have about 500 posts to read. I'm sad to say that my Dad died quite suddenly Tuesday afternoon - I got the news when I arrived home from work that day. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:29:17 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: Prince, diFranco and Joni (SJC) Patrick said: << i may have to spring for prince's new one 'rave...' never heard that he had covered 'a case of you'; has anyone on this list?>> I hadn't heard that either Patrick, but it sure got my attention...if somebody out there HAS this cover, let me know, I'll make it worth your while! I bought 'rave' when it came out, and I think it's great. About half of it I liked instantly, and the rest has grown on me. Bob NP: The Motels, "So LA" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:36:48 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: What's In A NameNJC Yes, Intercourse, Pennsylvania, is just east of the town of Bird-in-Hand, north of Paradise, and due south from Blue Ball. The tourism places make a fortune in T-shirts from these four locales. Those Amish sure know how to name a town. And, as you're driving on the Lancaster bypass, the sign says: Intercourse - --> Personally, I like Paradise the best. Harper Lou - -----Original Message----- From: catman [mailto:catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 8:31 PM To: jmdl Subject: What's In A NameNJC According to a tv prog, the following are real places: Dildo in Newfoundland Can(Pack your bags MG) Climax in Colarado Intercourse In Pennsylvania Wet Beaver Creek in Arizona(Lets not go there) Bastard in Norway Arsoli in Italy Turdo in Romania - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:08:41 PST From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: jdml cliques and hello again (NJC) Hello all. As an on again-off again lurker on this list for several years, I would just like to say that it is nice to be here again! Anxiously looking forward to the new album (I nearly fell out of my seat when I heard BSN on Dawson's Creek a couple of weeks ago. I lost interest in that show over a year ago, and tuned in on a whim that night. I am also a member of the following clubs (that Don very kindly listed: DEDMAS -- The Dog Eat Dog Musical Appreciation Society JMAC -- The Joni Mitchell Audiophile Congress. Hejira-RA -- The "Hejira Rules" Association. Good to be back! Reuben Bell ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:14:51 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: recreation again NJC In a message dated 1/30/00 9:35:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, ramnix@pronet.it writes: << What I WAS saying, was suggesting to people that they look again at what Vince wrote about some relationships being too clingy, and apply that to what I was saying about the assumed human 'need' for art and music. They're luxuries, just like hot running water and ŪTurtle Wax, but we CAN get along without them >> snipped to this: <> i'm a little unsure about this line of reason. and i'm thinking about a guitarist named jeff healey who is blind from age 1 and at age 30 something does his first blues album and calls it "see the light". Can we live with out art and music? Is beauty truth or art? not as clear for me. in the case of truth, i think we have clear truths in music. music shows us the truth of time, and its affect on our ability to resolve. in the case of your particular art: for you perhaps it is not paramount to your understanding of yourself. for another, that may not be the case,and they may not be necessarily needy because of that. i think, though i might be confused, victor posted about writing music and the full revelation of life that came to him through that process. i would think it is paramount to him to write music and he would be less a person and we would have less a world if he did not. and perhaps you undervalue the gifts of artistry that have been bestowed upon you. i think art and music are different than @turtlewax. and i think you are different than a carwaxer because anyone can put wax on a car, but not everyone can paint words with music or art. pat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:01:44 -0500 From: "Loren Carter" Subject: Re: I'm back - Me too!!! NJC Hello all, Loren here. The last job was just too boring, so I quit and went to the couch to be a dad for 3 months and watch the stories (All My Childdren). I missed you all, and I'm sorry that I didn't send off a proper going away message. One Friday afternoon in October, I decided to take my ball and go home, and not come out until now. So, if anyone sent a message to me at the old address and I didn't answer, I wasn't being snotty or aloof, I was gone, and I apologize. Boy working stinks! It's so cold and dark and icy in the mornings. I did order my pre-release copy of BSN, so that's taken care of. Loren..... who's looking forward to listening for a while. NP...nothing but the ringing of a distant phone.... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:50:42 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Companion in Canada? Kathleen writes: >for those of you in toronto, I found the Joni Mitchell companion at Book >City on Bloor (at Bathurst). > >Enjoy. Thanks for the tip - it's actually within walking distance of work (and a great bookstore too!) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:16:56 -0600 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Se Habla Espanol Victor wrote: "I was rummaging through a bag of tapes and I found a maxell tape with live Joni on it that was apparently broadcast on some Spanish radio station since at the beginning of the tape some man is speaking really fast in Spanish. The first two songs are Both Sides Now and Free Man in Paris. Does anybody know which concert this is? The date is 3/7/83." I can spic spanish flewently if yew need help. Oh boy a possible nuther tape twee. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:03:29 -0600 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: CNN Report (NJC) Marcel Wrote: "Newsmax: Dateline San Francisco: Here in the City by the Bay we have determined that Michaels heart has taken refuge in the hottest Cajun restaraunt in North Beach. Police have cordoned off the street keeping masssive supportive crowds at bay. As you can see helicopters circling overhead are preventing its escape to a neighboring salsa bar and garlic specialty house. Michaels heart has, through an interpreter, indicated it would not be willing to come out until it received and consumed its fourth martini and rack of shrimp. Meanwhile the heart has been entertaining the hostages with songs played on a VG-8. More news on this developing story ay 11. This is Marcel Deste reporting for CNN. back to you Bob." Marcel- This just killed me. Between you and Bob, I think you should have a bi-coastal TV show. Humor and positive vibes of any kind can take the edge off those situations that are too hard to handle. I thank you for your friendship and your humor. Can't wait to play some music in May. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:00:29 -0600 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: You are making me blush! (NJC) << Michael's work on the VG8 was SO wonderful, he inspired me to perform at Jonifest 2000 in New Orleans. His set at Ashara's was INCREDIBLE!! >> This is very true. When I got the JoniFest box set, Paz's tunes were the first thing that I went for in lieu of going through the songs in order or alphabetically or color code. IMO, Joni's singing on "Love Puts On A New Face," had a matter-of-fact spin to it. Meaning that as the male character in the song is lamenting that it "makes me feel helpless when you get this way," she comes back with a "that's-the-way-the-cookie-crumbles" "everyday love puts on a new face." Paz's rendition was plaintive and melancholy and twisted a hot poker into the memories of loves I had that struggled through similar situations. He is incredible. MG This coupled with your parody on "You Turn Me On.." has got me blushing like a school girl. You guys are too sweet to make all these nice comments. "New Face" is one of my faves and I really love to sing it for many reasons. To me it is a very hopeful song. I sang it on new years at our party on the beach in Honduras and my wife said I shouldn't play those sad songs. Go figure. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:33:20 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Se Habla Espanol njc Michael said: <> Victor, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain... Yo lo necesito! :~) (Pero Miguelito, voy a hacerle una copia, verdad?) Bob, glad that Wally K isn't here to tear my spanish apart...:~) NP: "Woodstock" from MOA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:14:20 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: NO SMOKING ... SC ... NJC Lou writes: >Thank you all for your supportive words about my nonsmoking efforts. > >As soon as this swirling miasma of human destruction, despair and decay >passes, I'm sure things will return to just plain miserable. > >I've found that the nicotine patches really work -- they reduce homicidal >urges by at least 60%. > >But it's so hard to keep the damned things lit! > >Withdrawingly, > >Harper Lou You should quit s****** more often - you're hilarious! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:57:31 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re; cliquish Matthew wrote:- and... apart from TI, which album would you recommend next? - ------------------------------ Hi Matthew, I'm in the UK too. Sometimes it can seem like there are not many of us on this list, but actually there are plenty, we just tend to be a bit quiet at times (apart from Colin, of course!) I think the suggestions that have already been made of For the Roses and Song to a Seagull are excellent ones and you will probably be able to pick them both up cheaply. I recommended FTR to a 20 yr old friend of mine recently and she loved it, although her absolute favourite is still Ladies of the Canyon. Two of my personal favourites I had to buy as imports :- DJRD (superb) and Shadows and Light, full version (also superb!) but they will set you back a bit. I haven't been able to obtain a release date for BSN yet in the UK so I've ordered it from the States. Can't wait! Cheers Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:35:03 +0100 From: Roman Subject: soda NJC Thanks for all the soda jerk info. There is no British equivalent at all, and as far as I know, there never has been. I was always envious of kids in American books and films who were obviously consuming such delightful things at the soda fountain. What a pity that the soda fountain appears to have died out even in America. Why IS that? Well, sure I know, it was just economics, kids stopped going to the soda fountains and it was expensive to keep stocking all the different flavours, etc, and pay just one guy with non-transferable skills to mix up the stuff. But WHY did kids stop going? Where were they going instead? I've always dreamed of trying a 'malt'. In Italy of course, we have the bars, and some are combined with gelatiere (ice cream bars) which also do frappes (cold shakes) and granite (crushed ice served in a glass and flavoured with fruit syrups. Bars in italy are nice places, incredibly cheap and usually very friendly service, with drinks and snacks served daintily and beautifully with napkins and little silver spoons and side dishes of nuts. You can buy Nesquick here in the shops to make your own flavoured milk drink at home, but they only sell the chocolate flavour here, not strawberry or banana flavours, which annoys me. Italians are wild about chocolate as an additive to EVERYTHING. tube ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:26:59 -0000 From: "Matthew Hall" Subject: Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? Hello everyone, thanks for recommending which cds to buy. I don't know whether I told you, but the most popular one was 'For The Roses' , oops sorry, I mean FTR. And I did intend to get that today, because I really liked the sound of it, but I ended up buying 'the hissing of summer lawns' instead. Don't ask me why; it had never really featured high on my list before, and the cover did not attract me at all. But in the shop I got it from (Andy's Records), it was a recommended album. I know that it is considered a classic, along with most of Joni's seventies stuff, so I just went for it. I usually go with my instincts on things like that. So here I am, giving it my first listen. I must say, the first half of the album passed me by a little bit, because I was reading my e-mail. But the title track is good, and I really liked 'The Boho Dance'. I was relieved to finally get to 'Harry's House / Centerpiece' - I'd already heard that on 'misses' and really like it. To be honest, at the moment, I'm wishing I had got 'FTR', but... I know that it can take time with Joni albums. There isn't many albums anyway, that I like on the first listen. With Court and Spark, I hated it at first. Which sounds kind of strange now, because it has so many great tunes on it, and it's also quite accessible, but I only had 'Blue' at the time, and I wanted it to sound exactly the same. So this album wasn't a big shock, but I'm interested to see how it goes. I'd like to know what you all think of it, because most of you will be really familiar with this album. I have enough money to buy 'FTR' tomorrow, but as Michael said, I think it's best to go slow, and give each album a proper chance. So I'll wait and see. Thanks again, Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:16:17 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? Oh Matthew, just quit squawking and go out and buy ALL the Joni Mitchell albums. That's right, all of them, dammit! Now! Get on it. Buy them. No excuses. Like there's something more flipping important than owning the complete Joni collection? Rent? Puh-lease! Car payment? Yea, right! Tuition? You gotta be kidding! Food? Not! Food for your children? Get real! So, just go out there and buy them up! That applies to the rest of you, too, dammit. Hear? Harper Lou Who, since quitting cigarettes, has moved from being mildly despondent to chronically angry at everything and everyone, and who also has been eating everything in sight, so watch your babies. (By the way, beware those styrofoam packing peanuts because after a couple dozen, they start to hurt your teeth.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:35:59 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? Interesting choice ... and you're quite right that you're going to have to give yourself some time to let it sink in. You've saddled yourself with something of a burden, in that a great deal of the imagery in HOSL is pretty solidly US suburban -- especially 'Harry's House ...' My personal favorite, "Shades of Scarlet Conquering" will bear repeated listening. So I can only imagine it won't be long now until you'll be in the market for a copy of the 'Hissing Demos", yes? Enjoy, I remember fondly my deepening journey of appreciation of this remarkable work. Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:40:24 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: I'm back - Me too!!! NJC Welcome nack Loren. You will have to do what i did and find someone else to go to work for you and you can stay on the couch. It's worked for me for almost 19 years now! Loren Carter wrote: > Hello all, > > Loren here. The last job was just too boring, so I quit and went to the couch > to be a dad for 3 months and watch the stories (All My Childdren). I missed you > all, and I'm sorry that I didn't send off a proper going away message. One > Friday afternoon in October, I decided to take my ball and go home, and not come > out until now. So, if anyone sent a message to me at the old address and I > didn't answer, I wasn't being snotty or aloof, I was gone, and I apologize. > > Boy working stinks! It's so cold and dark and icy in the mornings. I did order > my pre-release copy of BSN, so that's taken care of. > > Loren..... who's looking forward to listening for a while. > > NP...nothing but the ringing of a distant phone.... - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:45:21 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? HOSL was my first evr Joni bought on the strength of The Jungle Line. Maybe after you listen to it a few times you will love it as much. Maybe you won't. We all are different. I particularly like the last track, Shadows and Light. Just wonderful. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:48:18 -0600 (CST) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? HOSL is my favorite--nuanced, incisive lyrics, imaginative and varied music yet still somehow coherent. It's *the* album I put on when i feel like hearing Joni but don't have something specific in mind. Keep working with it; the work will eventually pay off. I pulled out TTT for the first time in months the other day. Only listened to two songs (my favorites): "Harlem in Havana" and "Stay in Touch," and was re-amazed at just how fun and unique the first tune is and how achingly beautiful the second. I just love doing that. I'm especially grateful to this list for "Stay in Touch," because it only opened up to me after many on-list praises coincided with some life-events of mine. Now it's a lifelong treasure... Happy listening-- - --Michael NP: The Artist, _Emancipation_ (disc 3) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:49:47 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? Harper Lou-thank you for thses posts about quitting smoking. You have really shown me that I don't want to quit. Quitting chocolate and valium and weed and coffee was bad enough.(all terrible actually, weed being the worst) Your posts are such a breath of fresh air that i can happily carry on justifying my refusal to quit tobacco! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:57:41 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? Matthew writes: >the most popular one was 'For The Roses' , oops >sorry, I mean FTR. LOL - every time I see the short version of names, I have to grab my acronym dictionary myself. Welcome, if a bit late (I'm now 200 emails behind and reading, or skimming, furiously to get caught up before Hotmail revokes my account for being too "full".) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:18:54 -0600 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: "This Woman's Work" (NJC) Evian wrote: ">Most depressing songs for me have to be.... hmmm... Kate Bush's "This Woman's Work." God, they always choke >me up, especially the Kate song, written for her mother." And then Patrick responded: "hey evian, are you confusing this with kate's 'moments of pleasure', which has a lovely line in memory of her mother?" Me now: I confess that I, too, was a little taken aback by Evian's initial comment: I had never listened to "This Woman's Work" in that light, or heard that it was dedicated to Kate's mother. . . although it may have been for all I know! What I DO seem to recall (now slogging back into the far recesses of my long-term memory) was that the song was featured in, and perhaps written for, a largely-forgotten movie released circa 1990 called "She's Having A Baby," and featuring Kevin Bacon (?) and Elizabeth McGovern. And, although I never saw the movie, I always connected the line about having "a little life in you left" to a woman's having just experienced, and survived, a long and very difficult childbirth. In this context, "this woman's work" is now over in one sense, but in another, will never be finished: not as long as she remains a parent. . . . So I've always associated this song with the *other* end of the life cycle! Mary P. in Madison, Trivia Queen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:25:48 PST From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: soda NJC >What a pity that the soda fountain appears to have died out even in >America. Why IS that? When I was a kid in very small town America in the early 80's, there was one soda fountain left in town. We used to go sit up at the bar on what appeared to be 25 ft. stools, and drink vanilla cokes and eat hamburgers. It closed when I was in Junior High, and I still miss it. I think maybe the shopping mall and the slow death of neighborhoods in America killed the soda fountain. And just for the record, our soda jerk was indeed, a jerk. He hated kids. Reuben ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:26:37 +0000 From: Martin Giles Subject: Re: broad brush A quick and belated apology to Fred... I put Roman's words into your mouth. Hope they didn't taste too bad! Beg pardon. atb, Martin. Fred quoted me correctly.. > >>I was thinking about what Fred was saying a couple of day ago, when he > > >>demolished all the output of the famous composers from three centuries. > Whoa, Nellie! It wasn't me, it was Roman! I defended all those composers. > > Dude, please be careful wading through the quotes of quoted quotes. > > - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:35:27 PST From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: "This Woman's Work" (NJC) >From: "Pitassi, Mary" Me now: I confess that I, too, was a little taken aback by Evian's initial comment: I had never listened to "This Woman's Work" in that light, or heard that it was dedicated to Kate's mother. . . although it may have been for all I know! Actually, I think you're right Mary. I believe that Kate's mother died during the recording of "The Red Shoes", not "The Sensual World". Great song, either way. The video, incidently, has a hostpital, childbirth theme, too. Reuben "I said well send me some pictures then, and I'll paint pyrotechnic explosions of your autumn...till we meet again." Joni Mitchell ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:38:24 PST From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: DJRD, TTT Melodies and Matthew Hey Gang, I loved the posts re: first listens to DJRD. I bought this album hot off the press in '77...I was hooked on the first hearing and have been ever since. I know there are a couple of other DJRD fanatics on the list who know of what I speak. The Tenth World has never been a problem for me. On this symphonic/tone poem/suite type of album, 10th Wrld (to me) is a great segue from O&M retiring to FL, to the wonders of the tropics for a great white northener in Dreamland. That whole 'side' (ahhh..LP's!) fit together marvelously! I just finsihed a spontaneous/random play through of all the Joni studio albums...just picking which CD I wanted to hear at that moment. The end result was that the last one I played was DJRD!! As I got closer to the bottom of the pile, I was bemused by the final order of play. (Mingus was first) Re: TTT melodies....I, too, have found myself humming a tune thinking it was Face Lift, and realizing it was New Face. There is a sameness there, though I believe it is the instrument more than the actual songs. Long story short, love those tunes. Matthew, Hello, and get DJRD and/or TI. Of course, eventually you vill own zem all!!!! Love, Russ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:05:44 -0000 From: "Matthew Hall" Subject: Re: Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? I didn't realise everyone had access to the 'hissing demos'. What are they like? Obviously, i have an idea, but it would be interesting. I would like to get acquainted with the final versions first though! Matthew - ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Rowe To: Matthew Hall Cc: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 8:35 PM Subject: Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? > Interesting choice ... and you're quite right that > you're going to have to give yourself some time to let > it sink in. You've saddled yourself with something of > a burden, in that a great deal of the imagery in HOSL > is pretty solidly US suburban -- especially 'Harry's > House ...' My personal favorite, "Shades of Scarlet > Conquering" will bear repeated listening. So I can > only imagine it won't be long now until you'll be in > the market for a copy of the 'Hissing Demos", yes? > Enjoy, I remember fondly my deepening journey of > appreciation of this remarkable work. > > Don Rowe > > ===== > "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:49:28 -0000 From: "Matthew Hall" Subject: Re: "This Woman's Work" (NJC) Yeah, I think you're right. 'This Woman's Work' was used in the movie 'she's having a baby' and the video for it, is basically Kate's version of the film in just three minutes. Pretty amazing I've heard, although I've not seen it. It's actually written from the father's point of view I think. Moments of Pleasure is about a number of people who Kate knew who have died. I love that song, but I probably prefer 'this woman's work' But of course, a song is what you make it, so I reckon the little 'facts' behind it are irrelevant. So which album do you prefer, 'the sensual world' or 'the red shoes'? I'm a bit stuck; they're both quite different. I love her later work though (I love all her work) but, my friend said that he reckons that the whole of her career was buliding up to these 'three', which is a nice way to think of it I think. They seem to get more personal as you go through her career. Ma tthew - ----- Original Message ----- From: Reuben Bell To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 9:35 PM Subject: Re: "This Woman's Work" (NJC) > >From: "Pitassi, Mary" > Me now: I confess that I, too, was a little taken aback by Evian's initial > comment: I had never listened to "This Woman's Work" in that light, or > heard that it was dedicated to Kate's mother. . . although it may have been > for all I know! > > Actually, I think you're right Mary. I believe that Kate's mother died > during the recording of "The Red Shoes", not "The Sensual World". Great > song, either way. The video, incidently, has a hostpital, childbirth theme, > too. > > Reuben > "I said well send me some pictures then, and I'll paint pyrotechnic > explosions of your autumn...till we meet again." Joni Mitchell > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:04:01 -0000 From: "Matthew Hall" Subject: Re: Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? Hmmm, not bad Well, good news, because I'm starting to like the album now. I put the running order onto 'random' just to mix it up a little bit - I hate knowing what's next. The only album where I always listen to it in it's proper running order is 'Universal Mother' by Sinead O'Connor because she actually asks you to in the sleeves notes. It's true as well, the tracks really do weave together well. I would definitely recommend that album. I like 'shadows and light' that's a little bit like some of the closing tracks on 'universal mother'. I'm also starting to hear lyrics on this album now; I love the way you just get a line or two when you first get a new album, and gradually you start to get a meaning. With 'Hejira' I actually went through the lyrics book while listening to it, which I do sometimes, but I think I'll just let these seep in. It's funny as well, I don't know whether anyone else does this, but I always seem to create a mood for an album by what it's front cover looks like. For instance, 'Court and Spark' is creamy for me, and I think it's quite fun. Which it is, but it's cover is really light, and TTT is really warm, which the front cover captures perfectly. Maybe that's just Joni with her good packaging, but I do it with all the people I listen to. I know, I sound stupid. 'Blue' is obviously blue, but Hejira's cover is just perfect for the album. i really only listen to that album when I'm in the mood. It's a bit draining if you're not. Although I could listen to 'song for sharon' all day. Best go, i think I'm going mad. Matthew - ----- Original Message ----- From: michael w yarbrough To: Matthew Hall Cc: Alan Lorimer ; Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 8:48 PM Subject: Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? > > HOSL is my favorite--nuanced, incisive lyrics, imaginative and varied > music yet still somehow coherent. It's *the* album I put on when i feel > like hearing Joni but don't have something specific in mind. Keep working > with it; the work will eventually pay off. > > I pulled out TTT for the first time in months the other day. Only > listened to two songs (my favorites): "Harlem in Havana" and "Stay in > Touch," and was re-amazed at just how fun and unique the first tune is and > how achingly beautiful the second. I just love doing that. > > I'm especially grateful to this list for "Stay in Touch," because it only > opened up to me after many on-list praises coincided with some life-events > of mine. Now it's a lifelong treasure... > > Happy listening-- > > --Michael > > NP: The Artist, _Emancipation_ (disc 3) > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:04:37 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Re:Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? >liked the sound of it, but I ended up buying 'the hissing of summer lawns' >instead Matthew, I only got HOSL a couple of months ago myself. It is a good choice and has some of Joni's best material such as "Don't Interrupt The Sorrow". "The Jungle Line" is another of my personal Joni favourites. Joni's albums aren't contrived to have instant appeal, they do take a lot of getting into. I often find on a first pass of a Joni album I only go for one track! Each album is a new learning experience, it's not like just reading another novel by your favourite author where you know what to expect (Terry Pratchett is an English example of this), but it's like a completely new book by a completely new author. The albums that you listen to and like straight away are the ones that quickly disappear into the depths of your collection never to be heard again, or get hidden in embarrassment! There are parts of most Joni albums that I still "don't get" or "don't like", but the good bits are just so brilliant that they take your breath away. You'll also find that over the years as you get older you'll get more out of them. I first listened to Joni when I was first at Uni and was blown away by the music alone. Now fifteen years later (back at Uni again!), I'm seeing a fuller picture and reading far more into the lyrics than I had ever done before. One piece of advice would be to *wait* two months or so before buying another Joni album. Even buying one album at a time can be a "can't see the forest for the trees" experience. Joni has spend 30 years creating, be prepared to spend a couple of years soaking this in. Joni's albums *are* different. Although there is a great variation, there isn't the "wall of sound", overproduced hallmark of most modern music produced in the last 30 years ago. It's like watching a movie for the story, not the *name* stars or the special effects. Enjoy spending 2 or 3 years learning about Joni. Don't try and overdose to try and get it all. All of us on the Digest (like yourself) listen to other music. Members quoted albums such as Deep Purple's "Made in Japan" and The Who's "Live at Leeds" as their favourite live albums! I tend to play Joni albums over and over again and then go "Too much Joni", and put on something loud and heavy! Spread the purchases of Joni albums out over a few years. You wouldn't read the "Discworld" series in a week, would you? You'd get one and read it a few times over before you really got it all. Apologies to the American readers of the Digest who probably have no idea who Terry Pratchett is ;-) Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 00:26:36 +0000 From: catman Subject: Universal Mother NJC Universal Mother is the only album I have ever bought without knowing anything about it or the singer or having heard any of it.(I didn't realise at the time that sinead had sung Nothing Compares 2 U). I kept seeing it and felt drawn to it and one day felt I must buy it. I am very glad I did. It is a most beautiful album. very moving. Scorn Not His Simplicity is heartbreaking. John I love You, Red Football-in fact all of them. An amazing album. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 00:31:26 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think?NJC > You wouldn't read > the "Discworld" series in a week, would you? You'd get one and read it a few > times over before you really got it all. The one thing I rarely, if ever, read more than once is a book, a novel at any rate. I read NF over and over. I can pick up a book I read 25 years ago, read the first few pages, and the rest comes flooding back. So I am afraid i buy novels and read them and then throw them out or give them away. John, on the other hand, hoards them and re reads them. He has a different attitude to books. but then his work is about them and he sees them as precious things.( I find it really odd that someone would read a whodunnit more than once!) > > > Apologies to the American readers of the Digest who probably have no idea > who Terry Pratchett is ;-) > > Alan Lorimer > Hawley Beach > Tasmania - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:33:29 -0800 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: WTRF Emily wrote: <<4. two words: lionel richie?>> In an older copy of Musician magazine (and wouldn't you know I can't find it in my Joni Archives (a bureau drawer in a spare bedroom) -- came out in the 80s and had JM, Stevie Wonder and now I can't remember who on the cover - -- titled something like Living Legends) I remember reading that she had originally asked Don Henley to do the vocal part on "Flat Tires." Then she went into the studio to record it and Lionel Ritchie was in the next studio and she went over and asked him to do the vocal. It was basically a textural choice; she felt Henley's register on that song was too close to her own. I'll go to Les' site and look up the article now and send along that passage if I can find it. It had some funny non p.c. remark from Henley that I don't want to misquote. Lindsay San Diego ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:50:15 -0800 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: WTRF - Ritchie Passage Well, that JMDL site is a thing of wonderment! As I posted to Emily, I remembered reading a passage about Joni's remarks on picking Lionel Ritchie to accompany her on "You Dream Flat Tires." It is on Les' site and called "Secret Places Part 1 of 2" from May 1988 (it appeared in Musician Magazine if I'm not mistaken.) "See, I had done something with Henley years before. For 'You Dream Flat Tires' on Wild Things Run Fast. I wanted a female/male contrast, but because of the register I had Henley sing it in, I didn't get any contrast. We were both singing lower than usual, and you'd be a long way into it before you realized that the voice changed. So I was dissatisfied with it and Lionel Richie was working across the hall, so I put Lionel on it. I forgot to tell Henley! Years went by and when I called him up to do this he said, 'You're not gonna take me off and replace me with a Negro this time, are you?' I said, 'Oh my God, did I ever explain to you what happened there?' And he said, 'No, I don't want to know.' God knows what he was thinking. He was insulted. I said, 'I had you in the wrong register!' This time I paid special attention to that; I knew it was up high enough that he'd get that certain timbre that's distinctively his. I owed him that. And he's perfect for that song." Lindsay (still rummaging around in that bureau drawer...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 11:55:54 +1100 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Feel Fabulous Forever... Hello, I think it was Wombqueen (forgive me if I'm wrong) who wanted to know if anyone out in Jimdle land had purchased "Feel Fabulous Forever". Sadly, I am the one who was foolish enough to buy this book on the strength of the one tiny Joni picture! There is 'no' Joni content in the book just a larger picture of her that's also on the cover! Its a black and white photograph of her smiling and striding toward the photographer. It's a lovely photo except the quality is blurred. So IMO, don't buy the book! Unless you wish to feel fabulous over 50! Strange thing is, I'm only 25 so if I follow all of these hints, I'm thinking I'm going to look sensational by then! Vanessa I know this is a minuscule amount of Joni but I thought it best for both lists to know that no actually Joni info is contained in the book! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:04:12 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC: Nerd's Quest I have the Internet bug- bad. I found out that there's news on the Web via some of my favorite "brand" names: VH-1, cnn, and Wired. Today I ordered a fast Internet connection from my phone company. The service is called ADSL (Acronyms Deeply Suck Lollipops). Anyway, tomorrow I'll call the cable TV system and see what they offer. Roger Ebert's movie reviews, complete with very little LETTERBOXED previews are on this site: http://tvplex.go.com/BuenaVista/SiskelAndEbert/ How cool is that? You even can hear the audio! But with my 56k modem, the picture breaks up 2 or 3 times per minute. I think that I'm lucky to have access to higher bandwidth so I'm gonna go for it! It's not cheap but I think it's justified for an Information Systems major, right? I mean, I should have it, right? Coming attractions on demand- wow! On the Wired page, they have the story on the Mars Lander. This is Science content, not USA content, okay? http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,34014,00.html From this article, I learned that radio signals now take 16 minutes to reach Mars. How cool. Now I don't have to wait through the news that I'm not interested in... I can SURF the news! BTW, if you have Windows 98 and you have Web access, try this: Click on "Favorites", then "Channels". Make sure you have lots of time to spend 'cause you'll be awhile! :-) All Earthly Comfort To Wally............... Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:34:32 -0500 From: waytoblu@mindspring.com Subject: Re: standards..joni's voice >I don't agree that standards are easy to sing. They're familiar to a >lot of people but some of them have very complex melodic lines and it >is *not* easy to sing them *well*. Very true! "Lush Life" by Billy Strayhorn is extremely difficult to sing. And while it is true that many standards have very complex melodic lines, it is also true that every singer intrepets them differently, and alot of how "well" the song sounds has to do with the way it is intrepeted, the little nuances and inflections they add, the mood they create, the notes they add in or leave out. There are two sides of jazz: the extreme precision and complexity of the chords and melodies...and the passion, the improvisation, the feeling of being free and natural to sing what you feel, where there is really no right or wrong. These almost seem to counter each other but when they work together the results are magical. John Coltrane is a good example of being a master at these two things. I feel that Joni is in a very good space right now to do an album like BSN. Having sung for over thirty years, her voice has matured very well and I think only becomes more beautiful. People get older, a woman in her forties may not look eighteen and someone may say, "She is not beatiful anymore," but I think I would disagree. Age does not necessarily diminish beauty but in many cases may enrichen it because beauty does not merely exist on the surface but deep within. The way you can look into someone's eyes and they seem to go on forever and maybe you don't realize it but you can see yourself reflected in their eyes and you feel a warm glow inside. This is how I feel about Joni's voice. The magic and beauty is there for you to find or to pass along to someone else. "And it's just a box of rain, Wind, and water. Believe it if you need it, If you don't just pass it on. Sun and shower, wind and rain, In and out the window, Like a moth before a flame. And it's just a box of rain, I don't know who put it there. Believe it if you need it, Or leave it if you dare. And it's just a box of rain, Or a ribbon for your hair. Such a long long time to be gone, And a short time to be there." robert hunter Victor http://www.mindspring.com/~waytoblu/Tangled.htm NP: Allison Krauss-It Wouldn't Have Made Any Difference ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 01:50:38 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: "This Woman's Work" (NJC) Hi Matthew, Is it just me, or was the Red Shoes a terribly disappointing album from Kate? Only Moments Of Pleasure gets anywhere near the dizzy heights scaled almost at will on the maginificent Hounds Of Love (my #9 album of all-time). That album was so perfect, I'm beginning to wonder if she peaked with that record. Sheer brilliance throughout. Sensual World had some great tracks, certainly it's better than Red Shoes IMHO. The title track of SW is probably the most...er, sensual and innuendo-laced song about its subject matter to ever grace Top Of The Pops! Maybe I ought to give Red Shoes another try...I really didn't like it at all......which I found quite shocking after loving Hounds Of Love so much. If Sensual World hadn't been the follow-up to H of L, I'd probably think more of it as well. Sometimes it's the record an album follows which can influence and colour your judgement and appreciation. Also, what on earth is she doing now? No new album for...what, 7 years?!! That only adds to my suspicion that she's peaked. Red Shoes rather smacked of self-indulgence and slightly misplaced conceits. The appeal of her kooky take on things was beginning to pall. Perhaps she realised that herself, and decided to take an extended break to rethink? Jason, secretly hoping Kate comes back with an absolute classic sometime soon, but willing to make do with Hounds Of Love for the rest of eternity... ;-) Matthew Hall wrote: > So which album do you prefer, 'the sensual world' or 'the red shoes'? > I'm a bit stuck; they're both quite different. I love her later work though > (I love all her work) but, my friend said that he reckons that the whole of > her career was buliding up to these 'three', which is a nice way to think of > it I think. They seem to get more personal as you go through her career. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #62 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?