From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #61 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, January 31 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 061 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Tube/Roman NJC - mailing lists [MGVal@aol.com] Re: WTRF [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: WTRF ["rick novosel" ] Re: New sub seeks Joni VIDEOS [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Trivia NJC ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re: Trivia NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: The VG8 thread, njc ["patrick leader" ] RE: Prince, diFranco and Joni (SJC) ["patrick leader" ] isn't she great (njc) [Bounced Message ] Re: WTRF first listen [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Trivia NJC [Brian Gross ] Re: MBL NJC [jan gyn ] Me'shell (njc) [evian ] What's in a Name (njc) [evian ] RE: most depressing songs (njc) ["patrick leader" ] depressing songs (njc) [evian ] WTRF and TI [evian ] Where the heck I am...and WTRF NJC [Marian ] Question for Boston Jonifest photographers NJC [Marian ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:04:43 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Tube/Roman NJC - mailing lists In a message dated 1/30/00 5:57:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, jason.maloney@virgin.net writes: << For instance, the Everything But the Girl mailing list throws up a lot of very confrontational and abusive postees, yet the band themseves are inherently decent and inteligent people. >> You want a viscous list, (can you say that 10x fast?), try the one for Thomas Pynchon. Jesus, Mary and Joseph, does each individual member think they have the ONLY interpretation of Pynchon's stuff. Which, to the best of my knowledge, they didn't write in the first place. Unless, of course, Pynchon is the one masquerading as all those list members. And that would be right up his alley. Food for thought. MG nb, (now baking): chicken in honey/sesame/5 spice powder sauce ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:05:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: WTRF In a message dated 1/30/00 3:08:36 PM US Central Standard Time, vanpelt101@hotmail.com writes: << Could someone fill in on whether or not this was after he left The Commodores. I'll let it slide if it was. >> Yes Jerome, his appearance on WTRF was in the midst of his post-Commodore days... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:05:44 -0800 From: "rick novosel" Subject: Re: WTRF In response to Emily, Jerome posts: >>>4. two words: lionel richie? > I've been wondering about this. Could someone fill in on whether or not > this was after he left The Commodores. I'll let it slide if it was. I once heard Joni say in an interview, when asked about recording with Billy Idol, that she often just wanders over to whomever is in the next studio and asks them to help out. I presume this is how Lionel Ritchie became involved. >>>6. a very postmodern (and purposely ugly?) painting for >>>the cover > Nver looked at the cover in this perspective. Interesting that you mention perspective, Jerome. The perspective in this painting is way out of whack, especially if you can open up the double album cover to check it out. It brings up something Joni said on the LACE interview tape when they were discussing the TTT painting showing Joni nose to nose with a deer. The interviewer interpreted Joni as being in the foreground compared to the deer whereupon Joni said she was actually in the background and admitted to having poor depth perception. Rick np: "8:05", Moby Grape ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:08:12 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: New sub seeks Joni VIDEOS In a message dated 1/30/00 3:16:03 PM US Central Standard Time, SoulQuest7@aol.com writes: << If anyone knows of any good quality compilations of early Joni TV performances, pleases email me off-list with info. >> Welcome to the list, Nick! We do have some video trees that have been made, stick around and maybe you can get hooked up with 'em. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:39:37 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Trivia NJC Michael Paz said: She's one of those people who likes to watch! For a chance to win a real live cuddy Tasmanian Devil, just answer the following question: In which Peter Sellers film did he say the classic line "I like to watch" while playing a character called Chauncey Gardener A sad trivia fact is that it has been estimated that 10,000 Tasmanian Devils end up as road kill each year here. Mainly due to the fact that they feed on the carcasses of dead animals (often other road kill) Also, what do you think of the idea of putting EXS tags on messages. These tags would be put on any messages who have given up smoking in the last 20 years or so ;-) Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 18:45:26 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Trivia NJC > > In which Peter Sellers film did he say the classic line "I like to watch" > while playing a character called Chauncey Gardener 'Being There'. A wonderfully wicked little satire. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:05:13 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: The VG8 thread, njc > >For a time I played bass in a trio behind Roger Powell (later of >Utopia) and >he was playing >SYNTEHSIZER's...an ARP 2600 with all the patchcords, an ARP Odyssey (the >first >polyphonic synth - two notes at a time!) as well as Rhodes. That was wild! >We played >Pork-pie Hat! > well, chuck, i feel like bonding almost this amazing biographical tidbit almost as much as about lionel feininger! i'm such a utopia/rundgren fan, this is like finding out that a friend was joni's masseuse. well not quite, but you know what i mean. patrick, thinking about boston patrick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:14:14 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Prince, diFranco and Joni (SJC) i've been keeping this in my inbox because mariana in argentina wrote: >I thought it might interest some of you. If it doesn't at all, I >apologize. this is exactly the kind of thing that belongs on this list. we've talked plenty about the glyph and ani here, they are clearly part of the universe of joni-relevant subjects. don't even consider apologizing. > >I read the following recently on the Village Voice site >(http://www.villagevoice.com). It was part of a review of both Prince's >and Ani diFranco's new albums. The reviewer was talking about the >similarities between both musicians, and then he/she wrote: > >"Of course the former "slave" of contractual hoo-ha respects the >undisputed poster girl (with no poster) for indie labeldom. But it's >deeper than that. They also share both a sense of ultraperfectionism and >a self-defeatingly-vs.-self-perpetuatingly prolific recording history. >Oh, and they both dig Joni Mitchell. Ani obviously idolizes her, and the >Artist at one point wrote a song for her, which she declined; he settled >on namechecking her in "Ballad of Dorothy Parker" and covering "A Case >of You" instead. True story. >Now he offers an acoustic-ish nod to Ms. >Mitchell on a way-too-short Rave number entitled "Tangerine," a sonic >expression of color that's reminiscent of Joni's "Blue." " > this has me really intrigued. 'blue' is one of my three or four favorite joni songs, and an incredible model for another songwriter. i've always considered my favorite sarah maclachlan song 'mercy' (from solace) to be the bastard child of the songs 'blue' and 'shadows and light' i may have to spring for prince's new one 'rave...' never heard that he had covered 'a case of you'; has anyone on this list? i also love 'color' songs... patrick jfp - anne dudley - ancient and modern ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:36:07 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: isn't she great (njc) From: "patrick leader" Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:44:18 -0500 i just saw the new movie about jacqueline susann, with bette midler and nathan lane. i LOVED it!! we've talked about bette a fair amount here, and i've said that i've never been that thrilled with her movies. this one breaks the jinx, it's my favorite movie performance she's ever given. i think the story of susann's ambition and huge need to be famous must have struck a chord with bette; she pours her heart into the characterization. makes me fall in love with bette all over again. a couple of other reasons why this one works better than most of her films: 1) the script. by paul rudnick (libby gelman-waxner to you, jules), it's less one-liner-ish than most of his. it's not a huge laugh-fest, but i smiled hugely all the way through. one section, after 'valley of the dolls' was published, tells how she and her husband travelled the country going from bookstore to bookstore, memorizing facts about the owners and then charming the holy heck out of them. not guffaw-funny, but completely joyous. scenes where she's working with her editor (david ogden stiers, the 'frazier' brother, playing a very similar type) at his upper-crust connecticut home and charming all of his supposedly prissy relatives while digging out their dirtiest secrets, are also just beautifully written and directed (and acted, of course). the script also avoids the maudlin tone that damages 'beaches' and nearly destroys (along with james caan) 'for the boys'. and 'isn't she great' could have been melodramatic; she dies of cancer for god's sake. there's a recurring 'talking to god' thing that might have been cringe-inducing. it's not. bette's biggest monologue, at god after the diagnosis, is one of the best things she has ever done on the screen. it's a true 'laughing and crying' moment, one of the few i've ever had in a movie theater. 2) the art direction is brilliant. jackie susann married her publicist irving mansfield (he used to always say 'isn't she great', hence the title) and a lot of the movie takes place in their apartment. the apartment decor just keeps getting juicier throughout the film. my favorite element is a roy lichtensteinish (he's the guy that brought the 40's comic book style into gallery paintings) portrait of jackie and irv (bette and nath) that appears about halfway through the film. also, the first shot of the publishing office that bought 'valley of the dolls' is an incredible visual ride, partly because of the costumes. the design of the movie is almost as wonderful as the costumes, but not quite, because the costumes are just spectacular. and there are just tons of them; bette must have had 80 or 100 outfits and each was more delicious than the last. nathan's suits were gloriously loud, as well. 3) the soundtrack, by bert bachrach mostly. i think two songs with dionne warwick consciously sounding like her '60s voice on 'valley of the dolls'. just so well fitted to the movie. and there is one particularly sweet mostly instrumental track that has only two words as a lyric. completely connected to a perfect dialogue moment. i can't give it away, but it's the most perfect script-soundtrack collaboration i've heard in a long long time. 4) nathan lane is not a favorite actor of mine, but he pulled back and gave the performance that makes bette's work. absolutely perfect. stockard channing is mostly wonderful too, and john cleese's few scenes are great. but it really comes down to bette. as much as i love her, there are times in her current recordings, performances and movies (gypsy) where i don't buy her; i don't believe she cares 110% about what she's presenting to us, her audience. but in this movie, she gives an absolutely true performance. trashy, gleeful, hungry, immensely charming and finally on top of the world, i believed every moment of it. and loved it! patrick jfp - bette - bathhouse betty ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:40:55 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: WTRF first listen In a message dated 1/30/2000 2:05:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, revrvl@pathwaynet.com writes: << My complete and total first reaction to WTRF when I first heard it was: "She sure was in love with someone when she recorded this!" (the Rev) Vince >> me too! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:06:22 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Trivia NJC - --- Alan Lorimer wrote: > Michael Paz said: > > She's one of those people who likes to watch! > > For a chance to win a real live cuddy Tasmanian Devil, just answer the > following question: > > In which Peter Sellers film did he say the classic line "I like to watch" > while playing a character called Chauncey Gardener Being There, one of my favorite est-ian movies Brian ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:37:21 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: MBL NJC (snip) >Joseph >(thinks DDL's best film is still THE UNBEARABLE LIGHTNESS OF BEING) > ULB is one of my favorite movies. The ending is to die for. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:45:52 -0600 From: evian Subject: Me'shell (njc) Mark in Seattle said: > I saw > 'Plantation Lullabies' today at Circuit City and almost picked it up. > Oh, you must!! I don't know if this has been discussed to death, since I am three digests behind, but it's worth it for the single "If that's Your Boyfriend" (or whatever it's called... too lazy to get up and double-check). Anyway, it's great, although I don't have Bitter yet... it hasn't been stocked here... suprise suprise Evian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:52:53 -0600 From: evian Subject: What's in a Name (njc) Well, there is a Climax Saskatchewan, and last but not least, Seamens, Saskatchewan. Evian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:13:46 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: most depressing songs (njc) >Most depressing songs for me have to be.... hmmm... Kate Bush's "This Woman's Work." God, they always choke >me up, especially the Kate song, written for her mother. hey evian, are you confusing this with kate's 'moments of pleasure', which has a lovely line in memory of her mother? i'm not so sure about the concept of depressing songs. many of the songs mentioned in this thread, (including the two kate songs above) have been sources of comfort for me in times of depression. sure they're sad, but they provide some light through the dark times. they've eased the pain of losses for me, especially 'moments of pleasure'. it's a song about remembering the best times you've shared with the people you care for. remembering, both while they live and after. it has turned me away from wallowing in sadness more times than i can count. patrick np - me'shell -- peace beyond passion (mary magdalene, one of my all-time favorite me'shell trax) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:25:45 -0600 From: evian Subject: depressing songs (njc) Patrick asks: > hey evian, are you confusing this with kate's 'moments of pleasure', which > has a lovely line in memory of her mother? > > Oh, I LOVE "Moments of Pleasure"!!!!!!! That is also a song that gets to me, along with "Top of the City" (People, "The Red Shoes" is Kate at her best!!!). However, I was originally referring to "This Woman's Work", which I always thought was about her mother's illness and death, with the lines "I know you got a little life in you left, I know you got a lot of strength left....." but I could be wrong -- Suprisingly, I don't think I have ever checked out a Kate Bush list/website! Happy Monday! Evian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:34:55 -0600 From: evian Subject: WTRF and TI Well, I am using my posting disease to weigh in with a "me too". WTRF and TI just aren't my fave Joni albums. Try as I might, they just don't do it for me. WTRF has some GREAT stuff on it, like "Chinese Cafe" and, hit me now, "Underneath the Streetlights" (Yup, I am IN LOVE with that song, sue me). However, the album as a whole just doesn't get me goin'. And with TI... I really LOVE some of the songs, especially the title track, "How Do You Stop", "Last Chance Lost", and "The Sire of Sorrow". However, it's just such a downer for me as a whole... Great music, it gets to be too much for me and it just ends up dragging me down. Now, if Joni had gotten ole Lionel to do some dancing on the ceiling on TI, then maybe it would have cheered it up a bit ;) Now, don't think I don't like depressing albums (I mean, I live for the Cure's Disintegration), but TI just isn't in my Joni top 5 yet... maybe it will click someday! Evian p.s. My mind is boggled by this idea of carbonated water and ice cream.... I can't even imagine...... np: "They Don't Know" -- Tracy Ullman (found it in my old boxes of freaky junior high stuff, and forgot how cute this was) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:03:57 +0100 From: Marian Subject: Where the heck I am...and WTRF NJC Michael asked: > Which reminds me, Marian where the heck are you???? > I have sent you a couple of emails but they have come back. I don't know why your emails have been returned, Michael. I have been home with my daughter who has had a sore throat since last Wednesday. Now everyone in the family has a sore throat and we are all going to the doctor today. I don't know when I'll be back to work, which is where I get my email. If anyone needs to get ahold of me, try marian8888@hotmail.com Emily, please give WTRF a few more listens. I used to hate that album - didn't listen to it for years except for Chinese Cafe, which everyone seems to like - and now it is in my top three. I especially like Man To Man and Ladies Man and Moon At The Window and Love and Be Cool. Underneath the Streetlight is kinda corny, but the lyrics are great. The title cut is personally relevant, imagery and all, it's like she witnessed and is relating my personal experience, so I like it for that. The only song I don't really like is Solid Love, but then I've never been particularly fond of reggae. Regards to all, Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:19:22 +0100 From: Marian Subject: Question for Boston Jonifest photographers NJC Last September/October sometime, I received a couple of packages on the same day, one of which was from Les Irvin and another one which contained a photo of me playing the guitar and smiling. I must have gotten interrupted in the process of opening the packages and mixed up the contents, and I wrongly assumed the photo was in the package from Les, but he says he didn't send me any photos. Does anyone remember sending me such a photo? I really like the photo very much and am grateful to have it and would like to thank properly the person who sent it to me. Marian Vienna email: marian8888@hotmail.com (until further notice) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:37:37 +0100 From: Marian Subject: Re: cliqueish? (NJC) jim50@hall7068.freeserve.co.uk writes: > Why does no one ever respond to my posts? Welcome to the list, Matthew. I'm sorry, I hardly ever respond to anything anymore, as I find it very difficult to keep up with the resulting correspondence. If you're still considering a next purchase, Song To A Seagull is gorgeous. Marian Vienna marian8888@hotmail.com (until further notice) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #61 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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