From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #56 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, January 29 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 056 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- NJC Fiona Apple NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] BSN Comments take 3 (NJC) ["Alan Lorimer" ] Jonatha Brooke's VG-8 for sale (NJC) [Scott Price ] Gordon NJC [DARICEM@sfpl.lib.ca.us] How To Be Fabulous (JC and BC--book content) [Siqwomb@aol.com] Re: BSN (Billie Holiday) NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: she moves in mysterious waysNJC [MGVal@aol.com] Re: the chosen few (NJC) [luvart@snet.net] Re: broad brush NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: BSN NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Lady In Satin (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: "Singer's Songs" -- why Joan will be just fine [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: another coat of gesso NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: another coat of gesso NJC [TerryM2442@aol.com] thought for today!! njc [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: MBL NJC [Vince Lavieri ] Re: thought for today!! njc ["Mark or Travis" ] NJC On needing Mozart like a fish needs a bicycle [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Lady In Satin (NJC) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] More VG-8 102 [Michael Paz ] Re: VG-8 Info [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Walk down Memory Lane [Michael Paz ] Re: BSN (Billie Holiday) NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: $35 BSN?! [Phyliss Ward ] Re: $35 BSN?! [CaTGirl627@aol.com] The buck starts here [Michael Paz ] Re: VG-8 Info [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: More VG-8 102 [Randy Remote ] VG8 Sound ["Eric Taylor" ] More VG-8 204 [Michael Paz ] My Top Five Joni (This Year) ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: My Top Five Joni (This Year) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] toshi reagon recommendation (NJC) [Wolfebite@aol.com] Singers Songs NJC ["Eric Taylor" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:12:17 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: NJC Fiona Apple NJC I haven't sent a post of this sort for ages; it's possibly self-indulgent so skip here if you want to return to JC!). I'm listening to the new Fiona Apple album at the moment, and it's (please avert your eyes at this point if you are offended by profanity) fucking brilliant, just wonderful. Her debut was pretty astonishing in its maturity and the impression that this young woman (I think she was 18 when the debut was recorded) had sprung fully-formed from nowhere. "Sullen Girl" is a fantastic song, written about her being raped at the age of 12, but it's not at all obvious, contains no self-pity and describes her violation with an extraordinary metaphor. Oh, and it's a gorgeous tune too! There were comments on her website that this new album (whose title is 90 words long!) is miles better than the first ("Tidal"), and she herself has said that she finds Tidal hard to listen to - and I thought Yeah right, everyone says that. And blow me down if they do not speak the truth. This is the early front-runner for album of the year. If you haven't heard her, listen out for a truly singular talent. Azeem in London, preparing to visit a dentist for the first time in 15 years - - a pathological unwillingness finally conquered! Wish me luck, and please give generously to my denture fund should my worst predictions come true... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:12:12 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: BSN Comments take 3 (NJC) Did anyone notice that I missed the most important part of Catman's quotation from the bottom of my original post? "To change the world-change your self" Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Van Diemans Land ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:44:11 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Jonatha Brooke's VG-8 for sale (NJC) Taken from the Jonatha Brooke website : At the end of the first thousand years, I've collected a few too many things that I no longer use. So, rather than the want ads, or the bulletin board at the local music store, I thought I'd use the website. How about a new, unpacked but used only a couple of times, Roland VG-8. Tons of fun for alternate tuning freaks. Hook it up to your electric guitar and you can program it all right in. Intonation nightmares finally solved!! It's a great writing tool, also, because you can find so many new sounds and weird tunings quickly (or by mistake, like me). I bought two, so that I'd have a back-up, but then found I didn't use it much live, so the second one is really an extravagance. A steal at $1400. If you're interested or want more information call 877-4Bad-Dog, and leave a name, number, best time to call, and someone will get back to you. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:32:49 -0800 From: DARICEM@sfpl.lib.ca.us Subject: Gordon NJC Hi, Chili and Heather, I saw Gordon L on his last tour; small venue and a GREAT show. Is he playing Konocti Harbor again this year? Darice ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:06:47 EST From: Siqwomb@aol.com Subject: How To Be Fabulous (JC and BC--book content) Hi List! I work at Barnes and Noble, and as I was walking through the Health books aisle, I happened to see Joni's face peering out at me!! Now, I don't know if this has been posted yet, since I'm "too busy being free" most of the time to keep up with the list as I should....but there is a book, called "Feel Fabulous Forever", with Joni's face in the upper left hand corner of the cover, and if you open it up to page 226, there is a full-page enlargement of the same pic to introduce the section on "How To Be Fabulous". How appropriate!!! I don't know if the book is worth buying just for the Joni pic, and I don't know if the book is worth buying, period-- (now that's good bookselling at work right there!! hee-hee) but it's worth a good quick look. That picture of Joni sure brightened up my day, and, yes, she is FABULOUS (as if we didn't already know)!!!! Back under my rock, Laura the Womb Queen P.S. In my journey through B&N one day at work, I also noticed "The Joni Mitchell Companion", part of a series that also covers the likes of Bob Dylan and Madonna, etc. That book I did buy, and it WAS worth it (although you probably already know about that, too). :-P ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:29:44 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: BSN (Billie Holiday) NJC > My question (and Mark you probably have the most "Billie" knowledge on the > list) is how accurate was the movie as to the life of Billie Holiday? > > Thanks, > Jimmy (one more day til vacation YEAH!!) Oh, god, *don't* get me started! But since you already have.....;-) Actually I had never heard of Billie Holiday until I saw 'Lady Sings the Blues' and it was a few years after that before I became interested enough to buy the soundtrack. It was a breakup with someone I had it really bad for, though, that really hooked me on the song 'Good Morning Heartache'. At this point of my life I was literally waking up every morning with my stomach in knots over this guy and also over the lousy job I had at the time. GMH became my theme song. Somebody finally gave me a 2 LP set of Verve recordings for my birthday one year. My first reaction was 'This doesn't sound anything like Diana Ross!' But the more I listened, the more I felt that Diana did do a credible job of capturing Billie's style. *However* The more I learned about Billie, the more I came to realize that most of 'Lady Sings the Blues' is pure fantasy. And a lot of the blame for that actually rests with Billie herself. She collaborated with William Dufty in the 50's on a so-called autobiography called (what else) 'Lady Sings the Blues'. It was mostly fabrication, myth-making & exaggeration. It was probably written in the hope of getting some quick & easy money. If you look at pictures of Billie from the 30s & 40s you will see that she was not a willowy, doe-eyed slip of a girl. She was rubinesque, robust & very beautiful. Her singing voice always sounded smoky from her first recordings in 1933 on. She smoothed it out some in the early 40s as her style changed with the times but it was never a silky, smooth, clear voice like Ella or Sarah. From what I've read, she was also pretty rowdy and prone to colorful language. Her stage demeanor was very regal, especially in her Cafe Society days, but off-stage she was pretty earthy, not the princess type that Ms. Ross portrayed. Billy Dee Williams played Louis McKay as the great love of Billie's life, her 'knight in shining armor as it were. There were actually several men that Billie was involved with and none of them were very good to her, Louis McKay included. One of Billie's pianists has told stories of being on tour with Billie when McKay would disappear with their communal 'stash' (they were all three doing smack) and leave the other two to either try & score in a strange town or hole up in their hotel room, sick with the pangs of withdrawal. Most of the men Billie was involved with were referred to as 'pimps'. They would 'manage' her, getting her gigs & pocketing the money for themselves, doling it out to Billie when they felt so inclined. The miracle of Billie Holiday is that in spite of all this she left behind an amazing legacy of beautiful music. She did indeed use her voice as an instrument. And although she didn't have the pipes that Ella or Sarah did, she was a virtuoso at using what she did have. Through most of her career, even after the voice had started to deteriorate, she had impeccable pitch, an unsurpassed rhythmic sense and an absolute genius for phrasing & connecting emotionally with her audience. That is what is important about Lady Day. And that is maybe the greatest disservice done by the movie 'Lady Sings The Blues'. It emphasizes the sensational aspect of her legend and doesn't really do justice to her art. Ok, ok, I'll shut up about Billie! (for awhile anyway) Mark in Seattle PS: And although she could (and did from time to time) sing a mean blues, most of what she sang was not blues. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:35:12 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: she moves in mysterious waysNJC In a message dated 1/28/00 4:24:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, jgyn@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us writes: << On one of the X file lists people're rewriting JM songs with X File content ("raised on conspiracy'", "Help Me (scully's falling)", etc.. Man do people have free time or what... >> A couple of years ago, Julie Z Webb came up with the Joni parody idea and the list had a number of great songs. Talk about free time! I know that I spent hours at work playing with the songs. MG - modest author of "You Turn Me On, I'm A Vibrator" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:48:31 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: the chosen few (NJC) I have to agree with Terry. If one creates it should come from the soul .... need I say more? Heather np: Goin' out of my Head - Queen Latifah >In a message dated 1/28/2000 7:42:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, >ramnix@pronet.it writes: > ><< I'm an artist too, and whenever I sell a piece of work, I know that > there's now plenty of rich suckers out there who can afford to buy the > kind of crap I produce. I'm glad to be able to milk back a bit of wealth > from the pompous assholes. When I score a sale off a richman, it's more > than just a sale, it's a blow struck for the common man - I'm getting > something back that his ancestors stole from the peasants hundreds of > years ago. If I can do it with art, so much the better, 'cos producing > art ain't like REAL work now, is it! >> > At 09:25 AM 1/28/00 EST, TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: >You are kidding, right? I am sickened by what you wrote. >Couple of points- > >Why would you produce art that you consider to be crap? If I produced a piece >that I hated, believe me..I would shelf it in a minute. No way would I offer >it for anyone to purchase. My art is a reflection of ME. And if comes out >like shit, then another coat of gesso goes right over that sucker. > <> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:17:13 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: broad brush NJC Louis "the Smokin' Harp" Lynch wrote, after Roman advised a rolling over of Beethoven: > So back off Beethoven, buster, or > you'll have to face the judgment of the moon and stars. > > Yes, Roman, I do play harp, but only for the RIGHT people. > > Given the entire exchange, shouldn't that be: Yes, Roman, I do play harp, but only for the LEFT people." Just asking. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:14:34 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN NJC In a message dated 1/28/2000 1:34:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, ewwt@netzero.net writes: << I really try to be musically correct (boasting a listening taste from Amadeus to ZZTop) but must admit that I still can't quite grasp the vocal appeal of icons like Billie Holiday & Bob Dylan.... >> Well the Dylan I agree with you but Billie?....she is very cool! I love the style in the way she sings. It is very textured is the best way I can describe her voice. I like Good Morning Heartache. Eric, maybe you need to get another different cd of hers. Try.. Jazz Masters 47 Billie sings Standards or (my fav) Jazz Mastrers 12 Blue Moon...it a goody! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:14:47 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Lady In Satin (NJC) I > guess my feeling on Billie is very similar to my feeling on Joni-there's > room for it all and I want it all. I feel the same way, if that isn't perfectly clear by now. And similar to Joni, Billie was always a work in progress. Her voice & her style changed as time went on and I find something to love in every phase of her work. There's no place to hide on 'Lady In > Satin' and it shows. Every fleeting line of happiness and long-standing > line of sadness is there for all too see. Even I, who love it, find it > an uncomfortable listen from time to time. Naked emotion can overwhlem. > If you don't like it, you're not alone and it's cool. This was more to > let those who don't "get" why people like it in on one perspective. > Discuss, discuss.... : ) > Actually I've been meaning to revisit 'Lady in Satin'. I do love 'You've Changed' as well as 'I'm a Fool To Want You'. Also, 'Don't Worry About Me' is even later that 'Lady in Satin' and it is exquisite, imo. All I'm saying is if you don't like 'Lady in Satin', don't dismiss Billie Holiday. It is not representative of her entire body of recording. A lot of early Billie bounces & swings. 40s Billie is often laid back & mesmerizing. 50s Billie has elements of both. 'Lady in Satin' is Billie near the end of a long, hard road and you can hear her weariness in just about every note. Mark in Seattle (all right, so I lied when I said I'd shut up about Billie. So sue me!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:17:35 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: "Singer's Songs" -- why Joan will be just fine In a message dated 1/28/2000 3:30:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, FredNow@aol.com writes: << Actually, for me Joni has *always* used her voice as an instrument right from the beginning, both figuratively and literally, as in her exquisite, spine-tingling, soul-shivering "flute" solo on I Don't Know Where I Stand. -Fred >> Well I am glad somebody finally spoke up about that! Thanks you Fred!!! The only reason why I really like Joni when I was 13 because she could really sing....of course the words were spellbinding but so was the vocal! She is an amazing woman then now always!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:29:52 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: another coat of gesso NJC Roman, taking time from his shift at the barricades, wrote: > Hey, they don't feel punished - At my low, low prices (I have a special > on this week) they think they're getting a bargain. And they probably > are. I'm not a very savvy businessman. Any soda-jerk could walk all over > me. > Hey, my first job was as a soda jerk! [insert joke here, I've heard them all.] Are you implying that soda jerks are, as a class, dumb? At the very least, you are saying that we are not savvy. This is counter revolutionary, and elitist! Please do not defame us soda jerks who have made all the confections that you la di da upper class hip revolutionary folks consume in your elegant outings to the neighborhood drugstore. We are tired of being taken for granted, presumed to be less intelligent than you all just because we are on the other side of the counter! In fact, get away from my counter, all you elitists! You all wouldn't know the difference between a shake and a malt, nor a phosphate and a soda, nor comprehend the exact proportion of seltzer to syrup if we wrote it on your highbrow prole foreheads in whipped creme! When the revolution comes, as Gil Scott Heron advised years ago, it will not be televised, and for those who defame soda jerks, it will be without chocolate phosphates! (the Rev) Once-a-soda-jerk-always-a-soda-jerk (or at least a jerk) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:30:22 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: another coat of gesso NJC In a message dated 1/28/2000 4:25:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, ramnix@pronet.it writes: << I've just left a blank space there for you to ruminate over what you've just said. >> I've ruminated. What is your point? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:30:42 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: thought for today!! njc Different Drums and Different Drummers "If I do not want what you want, Please try not to tell me that my want is wrong. Of if I believe other than you, at least pause before you correct my view. Or if my emotion is less than yours, or more, given the same circumstances, try not to ask me to feel more strongly or weakly. Or yet if I act, or fail to act, in the manner of your design for action, let me be. I do not, for the moment at least, ask you to understand me. That will come only when you are willing to give up changing me into a copy of you. I may be your spouse, your parent, your offspring, your friend, or your colleague. If you allow me any of my own wants, or beliefs, or actions, then you open your-self so that someday these wants of mine might not seem so wrong, and might finally appear to you as right - for me. To put up with me is the first step in understanding me. Not that you are no longer irritated or disappointed with me for my seeming waywardness. And in understanding me you might come to prize my differences from you, and far from seeking to change me, preserve and even nurture those differences." Author Unknown ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:41:04 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: MBL NJC Roman wrote: > BTW Did anybody see 'My Beautiful Launderette'? > > tube While I am not speaking to you after your grievous slur on soda jerks, yes, I saw My Beautiful Laundrette when it first came out in video, before the Oscars that spring. It had been nominated for an Oscar for something (best screenplay maybe) and I talked my local video store into buying a copy. I am sure that I am only person in this part of the state who rented it.... My best guess is that had to be in 1987, so I am guessing the movie came out in 1986. I loved the movie, for many reasons. Daniel Day Lewis (his first movie, I think) was splendid and the revelation of the life of an oppressed class (gays) within the context of Pakastanis in England, and skinheads, all in a laundramat, was a brilliant contexural situation. It was a great movie. Somewhere I just came across a reference to it a few days ago, not that I remember where now, but here it comes up again. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:50:22 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: thought for today!! njc > Different Drums and Different Drummers > And in understanding me you might come to prize > my differences from you, and far from seeking to change me, > preserve and even nurture those differences." > > Author Unknown > Very nice, Catgirl, and well worth keeping in mind. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:01:07 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC On needing Mozart like a fish needs a bicycle "On needing Mozart like a fish needs a bicycle" is the title of this thread, and I just caught that. I am slow... The original quote, as I recall it from the early 1970s when I first joined NOW (to which I still belong) was: "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." I remember that because I bought the poster and put it on my younger sister's bedroom wall so that she would have some reminder that the goal of life was not to grow up and be a wife. I still use the line regularly in pastoral counseling and/or in the law office with abused women, especially the ones who keep going back to the abuser because they think they need him. It catches people's attention and makes them laugh and think... People should be in relationships because it enhances their life in some way. No one should be needy of another person; that is not healthy, I think IMHO. So my sister is happily married now because she loves the guy, not because being his wife defines her life (not at all! I did contribute to her strong feminist convictions, right on!) And a couple of formerly abused women still quote that line to me as they are learning to live on their own, confident in their own selves. Now on the other hand, I do need (NEED!) Mozart; life without the overture to Le Nozze di Figaro is unimaginable! (Interesting that the libretto was considered revolutionary in the 1790s... as indeed it was... it is not that that the great composers were elitist, it is that we fail to understand them because we put our cultural assumptions on them...) (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:06:45 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: $35 BSN?! Louis Lynch wrote: >>Sorry, but at $35 for the boxed BSN set, Joni's work is NOT cheaply >>distributed. That amount would feed some families for a month, you know Hey, where can you get BSN ltd. for $35?! I'm down! - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:10:50 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: broad brush Martin Giles wrote: >>I was thinking about what Fred was saying a couple of day ago, when he >>demolished all the output of the famous composers from three centuries. Whoa, Nellie! It wasn't me, it was Roman! I defended all those composers. Dude, please be careful wading through the quotes of quoted quotes. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:17:09 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN (Billie Holiday) NJC In a message dated 1/28/00 8:33:12 PM US Central Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << Ok, ok, I'll shut up about Billie! (for awhile anyway) >> Not necessary Mark - thank heavens there's not a Lady Day List or you'd be lost to us! ;~) I enjoyed your post very much. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:29:11 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: VG-8 Info Colin wrote: "Is this VG8 thing why TTT sounds so odd and all the tracks sound similar? I listened to TTT this afternoon and I noticed this for the first time-that they all sound similar. The tracks also sound as if they are echoing(NO it is not my hifi). There is also this twanging sound going thru most tracks.What is a VG8? A synth of some sort?" Colin- This VG-8 thing is actually capable of sounding totally different on every patch. It depends on HOW you program it. When I spoke to Gary the other day about the first times he got together with Joni, he said she asked for the certain colors and was quite happy with the way they sounded. He also said that someone had warned him NOT to program any chorus (a pretty effect) or reverb or echo on her patches, which of course he did anyway. She played the NOJHF the first time with it and it had all of these strange sounds. It totally freaked the sound guy out as well as quite a bit of the audience (including my Mrs.) I LOVED IT! It was SO wild SO Joni! As other players who have played my VG-8 can verify, my programming aims at getting close to the sound of her guitar on the original recording. Acoustic sounds with and without effects, electric guitars with distortion, or whatever. This machine is a modeler, so it is designed to emulate all kinds of guitar sounds including 12 string guitars, dobro, I even have some dulcimer patches. There is also the ability to do synthy sounding stuff like on Harlem in Havana. My thought are, this is the way she wants it to sound right now and when she decides to change it she does. That's one of the main reasons I love her. Her ability to change and come up with different colors for the songs is so great. For instance I love the Led Zep-y kinda version of Banquet she did on the Refuge of the Roads video. I saw her do that live in Baton Rouge. Hope this helps. Later Michael P.S. You know you you might try ringing up a music stor over there in jolly old England and ask them if they have a Roland VG-8 in stock and go over and see one in person and perhaps take it on a test drive. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:34:03 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Lady In Satin (NJC) In a message dated 1/28/2000 5:39:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << Even I, who love it, find it an uncomfortable listen from time to time. Naked emotion can overwhlem. If you don't like it, you're not alone and it's cool. This was more to let those who don't "get" why people like it in on one perspective. Discuss, discuss.... : ) >> Well...you certainly made this Billie fan want to go and get this CD. I haven't gotten one in a while and BSN is still a ways off... Cat... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:36:49 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: More VG-8 102 Sue wrote: "The Roland VG-8 is a synthesizer that allows Joni to store all her tunings on a hard drive so the strings of her guitar are always tuned the same but by programming the synthesizer she can make it sound like it's in one of her 60 odd tunings (this saves her a lot of time by not having to re-tune all the time). Another feature of the VG-8 is there are different "colors" or sound textures that can be programmed. For example, the Harlem in Havana "color" is called Crystal. There is also a "color" called Acoustic Guitar but no matter how you program the VG-8 it will always have an electronic sound to it. Are there any VG-8 players out there who would like to elaborate? I've never had the privilege of playing one." Sue you have the gist of it, BUT IT IS NOT REALLY A GUITAR SYNTH! It is a modeler and that means that they analyse the sound of say an acoustic guitar and write the code for over 22,000 parameters to make it sound like that Martin D whatever or Strat or Telecaster or Les Paul. You then can choose (within the unit as part of the patch) a guitar amp and speaker combination to go with your guitar. Then you can add effects, tunings of course, you can name the patch say Song To Sharon, etc. I could play you many of the sounds I have programmed onto a tape and play it for you and you would not be able to tell it was all the same guitar. BTW I am offering free lessons on VG-8 to anyone who comes to JoniFest2000 in New Orleans. More exciting news coming soon about the fest in May (and no it won't be Carly Simon). Have a great weekend. Michael NP-500 Miles High-Flora Purim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:45:13 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: VG-8 Info In a message dated 1/28/00 10:31:23 PM US Central Standard Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << my programming aims at getting close to the sound of her guitar on the original recording. >> Michael's work on the VG8 was SO wonderful, he inspired me to perform at Jonifest 2000 in New Orleans. His set at Ashara's was INCREDIBLE!! I was bawling like a baby and couldn't even look at another JMDL'er, I was so moved. Those of you who have heard it know what I'm talking about...Joni herself says that she loves to hear a male voice sing her songs, and Paz is one of the best!! Bob Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:48:03 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Walk down Memory Lane Alan wrote: "Yes, some tracks do work brilliantly with the VG-8, it's just that so much of Joni's early work was acoustically based that we do tend to miss that aspect of her work." Hi Alan- Suggest you get out Song To A Seagull, Blue, For the Roses, and Clouds and you won't have to miss those colours any more. And just wait till you hear BSN. I have been in tears for days (all by myself) A Case of You is positively gorgeous. I don't recall a song that has stirred so much emotion in me, but then these are bittersweet times we are in. I think my heart's in San Fransisco tonight. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:47:39 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN (Billie Holiday) NJC Thank You Mark! What a wonderful and informative post about Billie. I didn't know much about her except what I saw in "Lady Sings The Blues." I had no idea that the movie was such a fabrication. (I guess most biographical movies do the same for $$$.) I'm so glad that you gave me/us the real story. I would like to know more. Is there a particular book about her life story that you could recommend? Thanks again for sharing. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:49:37 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: $35 BSN?! You can get the special edition BSN for around $34 or $35 via either www.barnesandnoble.com or www.cdnow.com when using the $10 off coupons at http://www.finditnow.8m.com/ Thanks Laura for this awesome site! I haven't paid full price for a CD or book since you passed it on! Tere are some other great bargains there too. Just keep checking it periodically. FredNow@aol.com wrote: > Louis Lynch wrote: > > >>Sorry, but at $35 for the boxed BSN set, Joni's work is NOT cheaply > > >>distributed. That amount would feed some families for a month, you know > > Hey, where can you get BSN ltd. for $35?! I'm down! > > -Fred - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:58:34 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: $35 BSN?! In a message dated 1/28/2000 11:09:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, FredNow@aol.com writes: << >Sorry, but at $35 for the boxed BSN set, Joni's work is NOT cheaply >>distributed. That amount would feed some families for a month, you know Hey, where can you get BSN ltd. for $35?! I'm down! -Fred >> Go to Barnes and Noble.com, they have it for $44.95 then type in password to get $10.00 off. That make it $34.99-whoo-hoo! Password code is CTENOFF Catgirl ps you can only use this code ONCE! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:21:22 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: The buck starts here SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 1/28/00 10:31:23 PM US Central Standard Time, > michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: > > << my programming > aims at getting close to the sound of her guitar on the original > recording. >> > > Michael's work on the VG8 was SO wonderful, he inspired me to perform at > Jonifest 2000 in New Orleans. His set at Ashara's was INCREDIBLE!! I was > bawling like a baby and couldn't even look at another JMDL'er, I was so > moved. Those of you who have heard it know what I'm talking about...Joni > herself says that she loves to hear a male voice sing her songs, and Paz is > one of the best!! > > Bob > > Bob Bob I can't find your snail mail address where I can send you your check for shameless promotion of another lister. Thanks for the kind comments. I have not been playing much lately, but plan to start rehearsing my set and figuring out what I am going to play this year. I have a couple of duets and threesomes planned. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:36:04 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: VG-8 Info In a message dated 1/28/2000 11:48:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << Joni herself says that she loves to hear a male voice sing her songs, and Paz is one of the best!! >> I'll second that. And Paz better do Song For Sharon again. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:40:32 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: More VG-8 102 Michael Paz wrote: > > Sue wrote: > "The Roland VG-8 is a synthesizer that allows Joni to store all her tunings > on a hard drive so the strings of her guitar are always tuned the same but > by programming the synthesizer she can make it sound like it's in one of > her 60 odd tunings (this saves her a lot of time by not having to re-tune > all the time). Another feature of the VG-8 is there are different "colors" > or sound textures that can be programmed. For example, the Harlem in > Havana "color" is called Crystal. There is also a "color" called Acoustic > Guitar but no matter how you program the VG-8 it will always have an > electronic sound to it. Are there any VG-8 players out there who would > like to elaborate? I've never had the privilege of playing one." > > Sue you have the gist of it, BUT IT IS NOT REALLY A GUITAR SYNTH! It is > a modeler and that means that they analyse the sound of say an acoustic > guitar and write the code for over 22,000 parameters to make it sound > like that Martin D whatever or Strat or Telecaster or Les Paul. You then > can choose (within the unit as part of the patch) a guitar amp and > speaker combination to go with your guitar. Then you can add effects, > tunings of course, you can name the patch say Song To Sharon, etc. I gotta jump in here. A synthesizer by definition makes sounds electronically rather than acoustically. And regard- less of the method of generating the sound (in this case, by analyzing a real sound and digitizing the information), it is still either (my theory anyway) 1 an acoustic instrument or 2 synthesizer of some sort, or 3 a sampler, which is actually a unit which plays back a digitally recorded sound or sounds. Admittedly, advanced technology like the VG-8 is blurring the borders, but unless someone can convince me otherwise, I think it's a synth. > could play you many of the sounds I have programmed onto a tape and play > it for you and you would not be able to tell it was all the same guitar. > BTW I am offering free lessons on VG-8 to anyone who comes to > JoniFest2000 in New Orleans. More exciting news coming soon about the > fest in May (and no it won't be Carly Simon). Have a great weekend. > > Michael > > NP-500 Miles High-Flora Purim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:37:24 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: VG8 Sound Catman wrote: << Is this VG8 thing why TTT sounds so odd and all the tracks sound similar? I listened to TTT this afternoon and I noticed this for the first time-that they all sound similar. The tracks also sound as if they are echoing (NO it is not my hifi). There is also this twanging sound going thru most tracks.What is a VG8? A synth of some sort? >> Taming The Tiger is Joni taming technology. For the first time she plays through a synthesizer on every song. TTT is yet another turning point in Joni's experimentation which has resulted in misunderstood masterpieces like Hejira, Mingus & Dog Eat Dog. I admit it took me dozens of listens to get into TTT but now I consider it among her top five albums. I love the crisp bell-like tone of her VG8. Her silky voice compliments the sound to a tee. Joni's lyrics are as wonderful & more down to earth than ever! Harlem In Havana, Love Puts On A New Face, Stay In Touch & Face Lift are as lyrically brilliant as anything she has ever composed IMO. I don't hear any troublesome twanging going on in any of the tracks. I do hear subtle texturing woven throughout which I find delightful & classically Joni. E.T. NP: TTT __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:01:48 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: More VG-8 204 Randy Remote wrote: > > Michael Paz wrote: > > > > Sue wrote: > > "The Roland VG-8 is a synthesizer that allows Joni to store all her tunings > > on a hard drive so the strings of her guitar are always tuned the same but > > by programming the synthesizer she can make it sound like it's in one of > > her 60 odd tunings (this saves her a lot of time by not having to re-tune > > all the time). Another feature of the VG-8 is there are different "colors" > > or sound textures that can be programmed. For example, the Harlem in > > Havana "color" is called Crystal. There is also a "color" called Acoustic > > Guitar but no matter how you program the VG-8 it will always have an > > electronic sound to it. Are there any VG-8 players out there who would > > like to elaborate? I've never had the privilege of playing one." > > > > Sue you have the gist of it, BUT IT IS NOT REALLY A GUITAR SYNTH! It is > > a modeler and that means that they analyse the sound of say an acoustic > > guitar and write the code for over 22,000 parameters to make it sound > > like that Martin D whatever or Strat or Telecaster or Les Paul. You then > > can choose (within the unit as part of the patch) a guitar amp and > > speaker combination to go with your guitar. Then you can add effects, > > tunings of course, you can name the patch say Song To Sharon, etc. > > I gotta jump in here. A synthesizer by definition makes > sounds electronically rather than acoustically. And regard- > less of the method of generating the sound (in this case, > by analyzing a real sound and digitizing the information), > it is still either (my theory anyway) > 1 an acoustic instrument or > 2 synthesizer of some sort, or > 3 a sampler, which is actually a unit which plays back > a digitally recorded sound or sounds. > Admittedly, advanced technology like the VG-8 is > blurring the borders, but unless someone can convince > me otherwise, I think it's a synth. > Hi Randy- Or 4- A modeler No where in the VG-8 manual does it call it a synth. I also happen to own the GR-1 Roland Guitar Synthesizer which is a synth. It allows me to have a palette of piano, string, brass, or any other synth sounds I want. I can also trigger my other keyboards and samplers with it. The VG-8 is based on VGM Variable Guitar Modeling VGM. Variable guitar modeling technology is capable of recreating the sounds of a large number of actual guitars that exist in the world today. This method of modeling is comprised of the following three parts. - -Electronic modeling, which simulates all characteristics which can be attributed to the use of vacuum tubes, transistors, and all other electronic circuitry. - -Magnetic Modeling, which simulates all the characteristics which can be produced as a result of using pick ups, transformers, speakers, and other electromagnetic parts (like microphones). - -Physical Modeling, which simulates all the characteristics that are produced as a result of the use of certain types of materials to make a guitar, including the kind of wood, metal parts, or finish that are used. There is also Composite Object SOund Modeling and Harmonic Restructure Modeling which has to do with creating new sounds never before heard like "Crystal" and the way one actually plays the guitar and its responses like vibrato, etc. There is so much more! Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 00:57:57 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: My Top Five Joni (This Year) Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Turbulent Indigo For The Roses Hejira Taming The Tiger E.T. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:43:14 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: My Top Five Joni (This Year) In a message dated 1/29/2000 1:34:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, ewwt@netzero.net writes: << Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Turbulent Indigo For The Roses Hejira Taming The Tiger E.T. >> Top Five (this year) Ladies of the Canyon Hissing Demos Turbulent Indigo Don Juan's Reckless Daughter For the Roses Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 01:58:17 EST From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: toshi reagon recommendation (NJC) hey all at the local Borders checkin out Will Oldham/palace/palace brothers/palace music stuff- found only one.. anyway you know Border's has those listening stations... picked up the new Toshi Reagon CD (remember she's the woman that sang the hell out of Black Crow from Joni's Jazz- I've been a fan of hers for years when I saw her at Adams/Morgan street fair in DC back in the mid eighties...). the CD- "The Righteous One" is GREAT!!! some of her best songwriting and great production. I think Borders has that corporate thing were they have all the listening stations playing the same things across the globe- so if you want a preview- go find her listing. Judith Casselberry, of Casselberry/Dupree, sings with her as well as her Mom's group, Sweet Honey. I'd be interested in anyone else's comments. doug ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 02:48:00 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Singers Songs NJC I've been blasting *Judy Garland At Carnegie Hall* for the past hour & am reduced to a quivering blob of teary goosebumps! Gee ZEUS that woman could SING! I nominate it as the greatest live recording of all time. Not even Edith Piaf sang with more heart & emotion. (& this assessment comes from a major fan of U2 & NIN).... I find this interesting because it was recorded in 1961, years after everyone thought she had lost her voice. QUITE the contrary - I've never encountered a singer with more beautiful artistry or intensity. Judy's renditions of The Man That Got Away, San Francisco, Come Rain Or Come Shine & The Trolley Song will NEVER be topped! 26 breathtaking songs & not a weak one in the bunch. Re: BSN. Joni is not a *belter.* Barbra is the last surviving belter IMO. But Joni's voice reminds me of Judy's on Stormy Weather - something about the lush vulnerability of their interpretations. E.T. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #56 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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