From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #48 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, January 26 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 048 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Applause Applause NJC [Joseph Palis ] Re: BSN single? [Joseph Palis ] Re: most depressing song (NJC) [michael ] mingus and live albums ["Raffaele Malanga" ] Re: most depressing song NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Rough Trade NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: most depressing song (NJC) (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Contributions ["Raffaele Malanga" ] Re: Crosby Article [w evans ] More about Applause Applause NJC [Roman ] NJC:Confederate Flags and the Swastika [Chilihead2@aol.com] live vs. studio [Emily Kirk Gray ] Re: Contributions [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: live vs. studio [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Winter Weather (or The Snow outside's delightful) (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol] Joni Sea Chanties? [Steve Dulson ] Dylan (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] New Tape Trees (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Dylan (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Greetings to Wally ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Dylan (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Aimee Mann (NJC) [Ken Corral ] Rough Trade - definitely NJC [Andy Stancliffe ] Re: Dylan (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Aimee Mann (NJC) [Ken Corral (by way of Les Ir] Re: Crosby Article [Mike Friedman ] RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #47 [Lindsay Moon ] Rolling Thunder Logbook [Deb Messling ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:17:58 +0800 (JST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: Applause Applause NJC Nice story about Italians as to their demeanor in operas. I remembered when I was in Milan and our Italian guide told us that if the audience in La Scala jeers at a soprano, its taken as a compliment because that meant that people listened to her sing. But when the excating audience does not clap or jeer that means the singer is not worth a listen or not worth a reaction. Kinda cruel, but they say people there are used to this practice. I am not sure if this is really a true story. Joseph > I know what you mean and I usually wait for some other sucker to start > clapping before I do, too (coward!) I bet the musicians would actually > appreciate it if audiences clapped at a particularly good bit. What IF > someone had done a particularly good version of the 2nd movement Beethoven's > 5th, or whatever and you were musically clued-in enough to recognize it as > such? Why not applaud at the time? I understand that in the old-time > operas in Italy (don't know if it's like that in modern times), the people > would cheer and jeer at the performers all during whatever aria they might > be singing. They'd have contests among the divas of the day and whoever got > the most posititive applause would be considered to have won. So everyone > would get all their rowdy friends out to the opera (where they'd be eating, > drinking, playing cards and carrying on with their friends the whole time) > to cheer on their favourite. So I think the "respect" and snobbishness that > seem to go with classical music these days is a pretty modern invention. > Back then, it was just rock'n'roll! > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:10:35 +0800 (JST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: BSN single? I for one would love to hear Joni's new BSN version played on mainstream radio. I don't mind her being sandwiched by the more popular singers because I think this would give her album and and her artistry wider mileage, and be appreciated by a great number of people. The idea of playing Joni between Whitney and Celine tickles me because of the three singers, its easy to imagine who the listeners will listen with concentration and attention. I noticed, too that singers not generally associated with the standards repertoire could sometimes go the heart of the song more than the more established theatre singers. Notably: Sinead O'Connor - Bewitched (Am I Not Your Girl) Carly Simon - Not A Day Goes By (Torch) Sheena Easton - If You Go Away (No Strings) Rickie Lee Jones - My Funny Valentine (Girl at Her Volcano) k.d. lang - Skylark (Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil soundtrack) Joseph > > Am I being a real snob hear by saying that I almost hope they don't release > a single? I agree with Bob - it makes my hair stand on end and my teeth > start grinding (ouch!) to think of Joni in there with Celine and Whitney and > maybe some of the girly guile types. There aren't a heckuva lot of stations > that play Joni's kind of music - what would you call it? Would you play it > on a jazz station? I'd love to see Joni have a major hit - I'd love to see > her make a lot of money - but the idea of her being one of those, uh, > commodities (?) is mind-boggling. On the one hand, a bunch of people who > may not have heard of her may be genuinely turned on to her music; on the > other hand, the sycophants parade... yeesh. > > Catherine (in Toronto) > cateri@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:59:21 +1100 (EST) From: michael Subject: Re: most depressing song (NJC) This ,for me, would have to go to an Australian lady,Judy Small with a song "Mothers Duaghters Wives".A song about how 3 generations of (mainly) men have been sent to war! Since not many of you would have heard it here are the lyrics Mothers Daughters Wives Ch The first time it was fathers The last time it was sons And in between your husbands marched away with drums and guns And you never thought to question You just went on with your lives 'Cause all they taught you who to be Was mothers daughters wives V1 You can only just remember the tears your mother shed As they sat and read their papers through the lists and lists of dead And the gold frames held the photographs that mothers kissed each night And the door frames held the shocked and silent strangers from the fight Ch V2 It was 21 years later with children of your own The trumpets sounded once again and the soldier boys were gone And you drove their trucks and made their guns and tended to their wounds And at night you kissed thier photographs and prayed for safe returns And after it was over you had to learn again To be just wives and mothers,when you'd done the work of men So you worked to help the needy,and you never trod on toes And the photos on the mantle struck a happy family pose Ch V3 Then your daughters grew to women,and your little boys to men And you prayed that you were dreaming when the call up came again But you proudly smiled and held your tears as they bravely waved goodbye And the photos on the mantlepieces always made you cry And now you're getting older and in time the photos fade And in widowhood you sit back and reflect on the parade Of the passing of your memories as your daughters change their lives Seeing more to our existence than just mothers,daughters,wives The first time it was fathers The last time it was sons And in between your husbands marched away with drums and guns And you never thought to question You just went on with your lives 'Cause all they taught you who to be Was mothers daughters wives And you believed them Michael (Aus) - -- http://www.coolgold.com.au/~michaelb/index.html michaelb@coolgold.com.au Either we are alone in the universe ...........Or we're not............ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 03:46:28 PST From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: mingus and live albums Driving to work this morning I was listening to the Mingus album. I've always loved it and can't understand why it has been the cause of such bad critics for Joni. It's jazzy, alright, but she was already including jazz in her previous albums. The musicians on Mingus are great and Joni's voice is at its best. I wish there was the possibility to listen to the original version of the album, the one that Joni tells about in the liner notes. About live albums, I have to say that I saw Joni for the first time on TV - I guess it was the S&L video - and I fell in love with her and her music, especially Amelia. So S&L has a special meaning to me, but I also think that no one can't deny it's a fantastic album. I know people, who are not very much into Joni's music, praising this album for the musicians and the overall performance. On the other hand, I see MOA as the end of the first JM era. After that album there's HOSL which opens up the doors to *another* Joni. MOA is "rocking and rolling" and I quite like the songs with the full band. But I do think that S&L comes from another planet. It's Joni at her best. Raffaele in London. - -God bless you Wally- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:10:41 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: most depressing song NJC Mark says of "Seasons In The Sun" << Well it was a *big* hit down here. >> To be specific, it was THE NUMBER ONE selling single for the year, according to the Billboard countdown. I remember not being able to believe it when it was announced..."Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" was in the top 5 that year, which was a sad song but a ton better than Terry Jacks' piece... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:14:34 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Rough Trade NJC Evian writes: << And, fellow listers, did Rough Trade ever get any airplay outside of Canada? I used to think Carolle Pope was the coolest thing since sliced bread. >> Yes Evian it did, although not where I live. I was spending a summer in Atlanta back in the early 80's and they played "For those Who Think Young" (I think). Carolle Pope was soooo cool ! Whatever happened to him/her ? Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:27:26 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: most depressing song (NJC) (md) Thanks for this incredible lyric sheet. I wish I knew the melody. Im not prone to tears even at sad movies BUT the sceen in Saving Private Ryan in which General George Marshall speaks about and reads the letter from Abraham Lincoln to the mother of the five dead brothers in the civil war just tore me up. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 04:38:09 PST From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: Contributions Has anyone of you ever heard some of the Joni's contributions to other artists' albums? Graham Nash's "Wild Tales"? Daryl Hall's? Indio's? I was also wondering (Bob Muller, you may probably help) whether there's a CD/tape tree with all the contributions collected together, also including all the songs by Eric Andersen and Jimmy Webb where Joni has guest appearances. Raffaele in London - -God bless you Wally- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:00:37 -0500 (EST) From: w evans Subject: Re: Crosby Article > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:36:52 -0800 > From: Mike Friedman > Subject: Re: Crosby Article > > I hope I don't get stoned for this, but I REALLY don't get the appeal of > Dylan. The music's great, and the poetry's wonderful, but I've NEVER sat > through a more painful concert than Dylan opening for Joni and Van Morrison > at UCLA in 1998. The audience was awful (loud and rude), and I couldn't > understand a SINGLE WORD the man said! It was more hideous than a junior > high school choir concert. Let Joan Baez sing his songs. A lot of people say this on this list. Best way to put it over is, that Dylan sings Dylan best because he has the most knowing and hip phrasing. That doesn't necessarily come over well in his recent concerts, although it does on the recent Time Out Of Mind, which is the first "old man's" rock album of his generation. What I mean by "knowing and hip" is.. well, think of the beat poets reciting their stuff. That's how Bob sings. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:17:21 +0100 From: Roman Subject: More about Applause Applause NJC various wrote: Re: Applause Applause NJC > > I remembered being in a classical concert where members of the audience > were told not to applaud > classical music > > is blighted by the idea that it's only for sophisticated people. And the > > fact that there is this rule about applause at the concerts only serves > > to reinforce that idea. I'm quite sure that amongst some concert goers, > > (though I'm sure not of you Scott), there is also an element of, "Well > > listen to those people clapping, they don't know that the piece isn't > > over yet, unlike the rest of us who are SO much more knowledgeable. > > Well, REALLY." Oh, yeah, this is a GOOD thread, got me out of my lurkhole by golly I'm gonna get on my soapbox now - This is all IMHO of course, but anyway... it's my birthday, I'm having a day off my usual routine, so I'm gonna indulge myself in a ramble. Forgive me, but most of the people I insult in this posting are either nameless or long dead, so don't anyone take it too personally ok? A classical nut friend of mine took me to see Mahler's 7th or something at the Barbican in London once. First time I'd been to a 'classical' concert though I was already listening to a lot of it at home, and on the excellent BBC Radio 3 and so on. Anyway, 'bout ten minutes into the show, there's a quiet bit and I turn to my buddy, and (as it's now quiet enough to here yourself speak) I say to him in a low whisper "Hey, it's really good isn't it!". Well suddenly I'm surrounded by about thirty people all going "SSSHHHHH!!!". Man I nearly turned round and fisted the pretentious bastards in the face! Fuckpigs! Listen, lemme tell you something about classical music - The Romantic (mainly post 1870 stuff) is good. REALLY good And the sacred and early stuff from the middle ages up to the Renaissance is also GOOD. REALLY good. In fact anything before Bach or after Wagner (The Ring guy)or thereabouts is cool. WAY COOL! But you can keep all that pretentious shit from the two or three hundred years in between and shove it back down the toilet. Why? Because that was the period when music was only for the rich. There were no radios then. No LPs, no cassettes, no 45s, no writable CDs. The ruling classes took music from the church and from the troubadours and folk singers and made it their almost exclusive property. Next time you listen to Mozart, think about those biwigged posers in their marble ballrooms, then think about the peasants out in the fields a couple of miles away, who were never allowed within fifty yards of a concert hall. They never heard that music cos the radio hadn't been invented yet. They just had a week-old crust of bread vrawling with maggots and fifty acres of the lord's beetfields to dig over before before next tuesday or they'd be thrown out of their labourer's hut. Most classical music pre-1850 was written, performed, and jealously and selfishly reserved for the exclusive use and pleasure of a tiny social and economic elite. If you or I (ordinary working people without aristocratic title) were alive two hundred years ago, we would never have heard it. We wouldn't have been allowed to. Except perhaps by the concession of some toadying priest who, in order to passify the squire's workers, felt he had a duty to 'better the commoners' by allowing sacred recitals in the village church. Or if we just happened to be servants up at the big house. Heck, someone has to clean the toilets and roll the rug up before the ball - You could maybe catch a rehearsal that way. It wasn't so long ago that anyone who actually worked for a living was considered a lower form of life. But only in this century has music become properly and decently democratized, the true property of the common people. Most stuff before that, you can just shove it! And you know? - It's not even good music - you can hear it - the vacant quality in those pretentious 'twiddly bits' in some of those old waltzes and quadrilles. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking there's anything intellectual about it. Most of it was just dance music for those of priveleged birth, or musak to fill the gaps in the vacuous parlour conversations that Jane Austen parodied so well. If clever composers like Mozart were gifted enough to be able to write the stuff, well and good, but their real talent was in milking off a living from the idle rich and corrupt churchmen who could afford to pay for the stuff to be written and performed. If you think that Brittany Spears and Boyzone is mindless formula music for a brain-dead audience, don't ever think that most of Mozart's stuff was any different - The difference was only in audience-size, but the music was still written whoreishly to please the highest-paying audience of the day. The whole classical music thing, historically, is just so 'un-Joni'. Likewise opera, which started out as a classical/music-hall cross-over thing, also founded in the days before radio. Opera has its very ancient roots in the songs of the strolling players - sung love stories and tragedies. But in the last century the industrial revolution had eventually brought a more equal distribution of wealth - There was a new gap in the entertainment market for musical performances for the slightly less than highbrow, the new industrial professionals, the bourgeoisie, the new bureaucratic classes of the 1800s. The kind of people who a hundred years before wouldn't have had two cents to rub together. But now they're 'the market' see, and some of 'em even have university degrees - They produce a lot of GNP so, gentlemen, we better start letting them into the stalls with us, perhaps it's only fair, they'll only have another bloody revolution and kill us all if we don't let em lick some of the candy now and then. So something new was needed that would pack out the concert halls with the highbrow and the lowbrow, the rich and the not so rich, the titled and the untitled - Opera was the fabulously exotic compromise that sprung from this great marketing opportunity. All things to all people (who hadn't heard of MP3 yet). Caruso was the Bryan Adams of his day. A sensitive rock'n'roller who knew how to hold a crossover audience. Number One with the theme from Robin Hood Prince of Thieves for fifteen weeks on end. Heck even Smokey Robinson knew that the tears of a clown will always get'em. There's nothing new under the sun. Formula music for the highest-paying audience. or lowest paying, but plenty of 'em - Punters that is. Customers. It's all about disposable income, and pre-1850, most people didn't have any, which was why they never got to hear any music with more than two notes to the bar unless they were in church. So opera became the big thing, and, here in Italy where half the country have still only had TV for the last twenty years, it still is the entertainment of the people. It's pretty genuine. But back in the earlier 20th century West came radio, gramophone records and two world wars - Opera yielded the stage to RCA, The Columbia Broadcasting System, Crosby, Sinatra, V-Discs and the American Forces Network. The cat was at last out of the bag, music was no longer the exclusive domain of the rich and priveleged, just as MP3 has made it no longer the domain of the big record companies. David Geffen is, at last, just another hobo begging on the 'Strip. But now, a century later, they're trying to sell opera back to you as something intellectual, something respectable. Something NECESSARY to a better life... Listen - Opera was Noel's Houseparty. Opera was Dynasty. We don't need that shit anymore - It was a necessary part of our lives once, when that was all that there was, but we've come through it now, we're okay now. Desert Storm was a decade ago. We're digital now. Wake up and keep music democratic! Jimi Hendrix perhaps said it best, in less words than I've unfortunately used - He said "I wish they'd have had electric guitars back in the old cotton fields - That would have sorted out a lot of that shit" Gosh I love that man. tube ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:08:23 EST From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: NJC:Confederate Flags and the Swastika Being a descendant of people who fought on both sides of the civil war; I couldn't agree more on the confederate flag being a divisive symbol of slavery, ignorance and hatred. But I have to make a comment about the Nazi swastika. The swastika is an ancient symbol for the wheel of life which Hitler made perverse by transforming it into a symbol of one the most evil events in human history. It is a still symbol that is held dear to many people in Asia but there is a difference between, the Buddhist symbol and Hitler's. Here is how to tell. Hitler's swastika has the arms pointed in a clockwise position If it was a wheel turning the arms would be stabbing. In the Buddhist symbol the arms go counter clockwise. Being a westerner, it took me some getting used. I'd almost chalked the symbol up for gone. It had been so twisted that I considered it almost irredeemable. But then I thought what if it Hitler had taken the Star of David and turned it into a nullset (circle with the line going through it, would we have discarded the Star of David so easily? - -Brian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:45:42 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: live vs. studio hi everyone i, like someone else wrote, have loved this "live vs. studio" thread...one reason it's more difficult for me to love the live albums is because i am frustrated each time that i wasn't able to be there and really hear the live experience. so "live" albums to me don't really deliver what they promise. also, i love studio music because i like to think of an artist working in seclusion (or with other artists) for the sound of the music itself and not for applause and those velvet curtain calls. that way, i can imagine joni struggling and smiling with the joy of creation itself (the way i do? it's all a personal preference, i'm aware). that said, moments on S&L are breathtaking -- hearing "dry cleaner" and "in france they kiss on main street" in this form made me fall in love with those songs also, it's wonderful to hear her experimenting, using her art as art and not as artifact and "for free" on MOA is incredible -- but i'll take that, "rainy night house" and maybe the country "big yellow taxi" and leave the rest -- it's hard for me to hear so much cheese associated with joni, "of the moment" LAX or not... finally -- one sort of silly reason i love the live stuff is to be able to hear joni let go with one of her amazing, full-throated, wonderful laughs -- isn't it good to hear her laugh? - -- emily NP: Shadows & Light, of course! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:03:30 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Contributions Raffaelle asked: <> There's not one yet, but it's a great idea for a future project...On the tribute CD that I've been distributing, I added "Nexus" by Dan Fogelberg which is a gorgeous song on its own but features a pretty Joni "coda vocal". I'd be happy to work with any and all to gather up "Joni contribution" tunes and put 'em on a shared tree... Bob NP: J. Mellencamp, "Kind Of Fella I Am" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:22:20 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: live vs. studio Emily said: <> Joni to me is one of A FEW artists who can use both the studio AND the stage as an artistic medium. Rather than just a promotional tool, her performances are art too as she adds new instruments, arrangements, players, even new verses and phrasings...others who do this so well: Springsteen, Counting Crows, Dave Matthews... And then there are guys like the Allmans and Little Feat who seem to thrive and actually surpass their studio work in concert. <> Her laugh is extremely infectious, I can't help but laugh myself when I hear it! Bob NP: Pablo Cruise, "Part of the Game" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:45:21 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Winter Weather (or The Snow outside's delightful) (NJC) Evian, calling me "delusional," smuggly tries to defend the warm weather: <> Darling, why the heck do you think I have 4 children? ;-) Hugs, Ashara (gearing up for a GREAT ski weekend finally filled with natural snow!) www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:52:48 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni Sea Chanties? John wrote: >"When is the Joni breathing Tape Tree is coming out?" and my fave, "When >are they releasing the Joni Sea Chanties?' Haul Away, Joni? Hanging Joni? Rollin' Down To Ol' Malibu? Joni's Gone To Hilo? ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ (Website under construction!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:53:46 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Dylan (NJC) Mike bravely wrote about Dylan: <> If the list starts throwing stones at you, I will stand by you 100%!!!! I couldn't agree with everything you've said more. (Hey, that's kind of like a "me-too" post. I'm going to be in deep trouble for doing that twice in one week!) Poor Maggie. She and I went to the Joni/Dlyan concert in NYC. I begged her throughout Dylan's ENTIRE set to leave. PLEASE!!!!!!! I am going to puke!!! I am going to faint!!! I am going to committ hara-kiri!!!! I am going to do some VERY desperate act in the middle of Madison Square Garden!!!! But nooooooo......we had to sit there through the WHOLE THING!!!! The worst of it for her, was that we were sitting right next to one of Dylan's entourage, so of course, Maggie was dying of embarrassment. But....what's a girl to do? ;-) Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:57:43 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: New Tape Trees (NJC) John asked on Rich's behalf: <<"When is the Joni breathing Tape Tree is coming out?" and my fave, "When are they releasing the Joni Sea Chanties?' Bob? Ashara? Jim?>> I can tell you only if you swear to secrecy..... The breathing tape will be out on Video Tree #42, and the Joni Sea Chanties is slated for Video Tree #687. Always glad to be of service. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:04:10 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Dylan (NJC) AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > Mike bravely wrote about Dylan: > > <> > > If the list starts throwing stones at you, I will stand by you 100%!!!! I > couldn't agree with everything you've said more. (Hey, that's kind of like a > "me-too" post. I'm going to be in deep trouble for doing that twice in one > week!) Poor Maggie. She and I went to the Joni/Dlyan concert in NYC. I begged > her throughout Dylan's ENTIRE set to leave. PLEASE!!!!!!! I am going to > puke!!! I am going to faint!!! I am going to committ hara-kiri!!!! I am going > to do some VERY desperate act in the middle of Madison Square Garden!!!! But > nooooooo......we had to sit there through the WHOLE THING!!!! The worst of it > for her, was that we were sitting right next to one of Dylan's entourage, so > of course, Maggie was dying of embarrassment. But....what's a girl to do? ;-) I, too, was not looking forward to seeing Dylan live with Joni. But simon wrote to me and said to give him a chance. So I stayed, and was thrilled beyond expectations. He was spectacular. The best thing was seeing his face. So wry and funny. Almost as if was doing a parody of a parody. His band rocked, and it was great to see all the young people in the audience come alive and show such respect for his talent. Jerry np: Macy Gray (love her!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:31:16 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Greetings to Wally Hi Wally, I'm the guy who's been wishing you well in his tag line! I want to thank you for introducing me (virtually) to Les, simon, and Ashara. The four of you have done extraordinarily good work in spreading Joni's music through the Discussion List, Tape Trees, and Video Trees. Thanks for inspiring the hostesses and hosts of all of the Joni Fests around the world. (Hi JulZie!) Through your creative spark, I've been able to put a face with a e-mail signature. More than that, I've been able to follow JoniFests that happen anywhere on the globe. Most of all, thank you for the rich tapestry that is the Joni Mitchell web site. Through your remarkable and generous gift of the web site, you have inspired a world-wide community in which we Listers all belong. It's exciting to think of all the new fans that will hit the site when "Both Sides Now" debuts in stores. Your counters will be spinning for sure!! God bless, Jim (wait for it......) ** Get well, Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:42:49 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Dylan (NJC) <> Sorry you were forced to endure the pain, Ashara...:~) In Atlanta we sat through Dylan's first song, but it was horrid, particularly after Joni's lovely performance, and especially since I was gagging on the stinky smoke that was part of Dylan's show... We walked out past all the folks who were going nuts for Dylan and I just shook my head. The REAL irony was that Joni had just done a HISTORIC performance of BSN and that was mostly forgotten by the crowd who was applauding what in my opinion was Dylan's reputation and not his performance... Bob NP: Mellencamp, "Mr. Bellows" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:03:20 -0800 From: Ken Corral Subject: Re: Aimee Mann (NJC) I'm late responding to this one plus it may have already been covered but here goes... There is an excellent bare-bones live version of "I've Had it" on KCRW's RARE ON AIR vol.2. This was recorded in late 1993 in their performance studio. The CD version of this song is more lush and filled out with instrumentation but this live version sits alongside the tracks from "Magnolia" nicely. You can hear the entire song at this link- http://www.kcrw.org/music/rare/roa2.html You'll need to download the Liquid Audio player before listening but its well worth it. The sound quality is surprisingly good and with a good pair of head phones you'll be set. Incidentally, Joni's "Just Like This Train" also appears on this volume of "RARE ON AIR." KenC- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:13:57 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) From: Andy Stancliffe Subject: Rough Trade - definitely NJC Evian writes: > And, fellow >listers, did Rough Trade ever get any airplay outside of Canada? I >used >to think Carolle Pope was the coolest thing since sliced bread. >Evian, set adrift on memory bliss..... Oh Evian, I haven't thought about Rough Trade in years. At least two of their albums got released in the US -- Avoid Freud and For Those Who Think Young. I think Avoid Freud was one of the most underrated albums of all time. I would play "Grade B Movie" or "Hostage" for friends and their jaws would drop. I rarely heard any of the songs on the radio, though. I think they did release "All Touch and no Contact" off For Those Who Think Young as a single. I even saw them lip synch to it on a cheesy music show called "Solid Gold" (Anyone remember the Solid Gold dancers?) But they never really made much of an impression here. My roommate and I saw Rough Trade perform at a tiny club in Santa Monica in 1983 or 1984. Carole Pope really was a great lyricist and quite a performer. I'll have to pull my old LPs out and take a trip down memory lane.... Andy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:25:51 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Dylan (NJC) Bob (Muller not Dylan) wrote: << In Atlanta we sat through Dylan's first song, but it was horrid, particularly after Joni's lovely performance, and especially since I was gagging on the stinky smoke that was part of Dylan's show... >> I followed Bob M. out the door in Atlanta (although I didn't recognize him wearing his Joni drag outfit). The five of us who came up from Ft. Myers left during Dylan's second song. We didn't care for his fans, nor his singing. Unfortunately, I didn't follow Bob and the gang to Joni's hotel, or *I* would have had the chance to meet her too!!! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:48:12 -0700 From: Ken Corral (by way of Les Irvin ) Subject: Re: Aimee Mann (NJC) I'm late responding to this one plus it may have already been covered but here goes... There is an excellent bare-bones live version of "I've Had it" on KCRW's RARE ON AIR vol.2. This was recorded in late 1993 in their performance studio. The CD version of this song is more lush and filled out with instrumentation but this live version sits alongside the tracks from "Magnolia" nicely. You can hear the entire song at this link- http://www.kcrw.org/music/rare/roa2.html You'll need to download the Liquid Audio player before listening but its well worth it. The sound quality is surprisingly good and with a good pair of head phones you'll be set. Incidentally, Joni's "Just Like This Train" also appears on this volume of "RARE ON AIR." KenC- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:26:02 -0800 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: Crosby Article > > A lot of people say this on this list. Best way to put it over is, that > Dylan sings Dylan best because he has the most knowing and hip phrasing. > That doesn't necessarily come over well in his recent concerts, although > it does on the recent Time Out Of Mind, which is the first "old man's" > rock album of his generation. What I mean by "knowing and hip" is.. well, > think of the beat poets reciting their stuff. That's how Bob sings. I think I should probably listen to more of his albums (my lover is a fan), but that concert turned me off so much. He was singing as if he had mashed potatoes in his mouth. The most telling thing was the horrible people in front of us who came in late, loud and obviously drunk. They sat down just as Dylan was starting his 2nd song. The guy screamed out "Play 'Maggie's Farm'" and Sam leaned over to me and whispered "He just did." :-) Even the Dylan zealots couldn't tell. Perhaps he was pulling the wool over their eyes and was singing that day's weather report or obituaries from the LA Times. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:54:10 -0800 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #47 Mike Friedman wrote: I hope I don't get stoned for this, but I REALLY don't get the appeal of Dylan. The music's great, and the poetry's wonderful, but I've NEVER sat through a more painful concert than Dylan opening for Joni and Van Morrison at UCLA in 1998. The audience was awful (loud and rude), and I couldn't understand a SINGLE WORD the man said! It was more hideous than a junior high school choir concert. Let Joan Baez sing his songs. Mike, count me in on this one! Ugh! When I saw Joni, Bob and Van at the Anaheim Pond, I vowed I would give Dylan at least one or two songs (the whole thing was so painful now I can't remember). I had to leave as soon as the song was over (and who knows what song it was -- you couldn't understand the words!) Lindsay in San Diego - -----Original Message----- From: JMDL Digest [SMTP:les@jmdl.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 12:00 AM To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #47 JMDL Digest Wednesday, January 26 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 047 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. - ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- the bells and cheesy ole canadian crappola (njc) [evian ] Winter Weather (or The Snow outside's delightful) (NJC) [evian ] Re: Crosby Article [Mike Friedman ] Blah Express. [Richard Rice ] Re: BSN single? [Joseph Palis ] Re: Applause Applause NJC [Joseph Palis ] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:21:38 -0600 From: evian Subject: the bells and cheesy ole canadian crappola (njc) Catherine writes: > That song reminds me of another CanCon clunker called "Quiver" or "Stay with > me a while" by a group named the Bells, a tune I'd just as soon forget, > except that, in periods of stress, I get these audio flashbacks > - ---aaaaaaggggghhh! They make Terry Jacks look good. > OMG, THE BELLS!!! LOLOL!!! I remember when I was about 4 or 5... one of my sisters had the Bells on 8-track AND cassette, which freaks me out now because I didn't even realize cassettes were really "out" then. Anyway, "Stay a While" is just so hideous I love to hear it.... you know, it's so hokey and stupid, it never fails to make me laugh -- they were actually serious!!! And "Seasons in the Sun" is the grossest, most vile song ever recorded.... ugh, makes me want to spit. However, didn't Terry Jacks also do "Where Evil Grows" or whatever? I gotta admit... we had that 45 when I was also 4 or 5, and I loved it... along with.... get ready to laugh... "Which Way You Goin', Billy?" Did any of these, besides the hideous "Seasons in the Sun" get released in the States? Since we are on the subject, I'll also admit that I love Anne Murray's "Now and Forever" and "That's Not The Way it's Supposed to Be", another cheesy Canadian act. And, fellow Canadians, hold your laughter for this... I just ordered Platinum Blonde's Greatest Hits... LOLOL, I thought they were so cool when I was in grade 8... LOL! And, fellow listers, did Rough Trade ever get any airplay outside of Canada? I used to think Carolle Pope was the coolest thing since sliced bread. Evian, set adrift on memory bliss..... - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:34:28 -0800 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Most Depressing Song Since this topic is lingering, how about Richard Thompson's "I'll Be Taking My Business Elsewhere" or Billie Holiday's, "Strange Fruit." Leslie - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:34:39 -0600 From: evian Subject: Winter Weather (or The Snow outside's delightful) (NJC) Delusional Ashara (must be from the snow trauma) wrote: > As far as I'm concerned, we can have winter all > year round! You can have the hot, humid, sweltering stuff. Give me the beauty > of snow covered trees, the breathing in of freezing, crisp, clean air, and > the exhilaration of bombing down a sleek white mountain trail with two boards > strapped to your feet any day of the week! > Honey, I love ya, but come in out of the cold!!!!! Give me palm trees, the breathing in of warm, that-smell-of-concrete-right-before-it-rains air, the exhilaration of skinny-dipping on a clear, quiet night with no sounds except the call of the loons, a tan that takes away the ravages of winter, the joy of reading in the hammock, the need NOT to wear shoes outside, and cutting the lawn beats the hell out of shovelling snow! Well, that should be prefaced with "of course, if you don't have a/c, summer CAN be a tad shitty!" Ok, Ok, there are some joys of winter, like blizzardy Fridays and chinooks, but otherwise, you can keep it! Evian, who instead of going to bed, feels compelled to keep on postin'.... - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 02:10:30 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: BSN pre-order I ordered BSN ltd. ed. through Reprise and tried to ask customer service whether they were going to fill every order they got or were they "over-booking" like the airlines do and then would have to bump some orders after 15,000. They couldn't/wouldn't tell me. Anyone know for sure? Don't want to wait until I get their "Sorry, we are out of stock ... " email to scramble to get one, if even possible by that point. - - -Fred - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:59:16 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: BSN single? NJC Canadian Catherine queried (;~D) << I guess I didn't realize that *anyone* released singles anymore. i thought that died when 45s went away. >> Oh but some of the best mixes have been released on CD-singles! Bjork RULES in the remix department. Joni's *Big Yellow Taxi* CD-7 remixes are very impressive. My fav U2 & NIN tunes are remixed singles. & The Pet Shop Boys *Forthright Dub* mix of Somewhere is the greatest single Single that I've ever heard! E.T. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:36:52 -0800 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: Crosby Article > From: Mark or Travis > Reply-To: Mark or Travis > Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:40:36 -0800 > To: Siresorrow@aol.com, Harpua@revealed.net, joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Crosby Article > > i think she is the most brilliant singer-songwriter of all. i >> mean, i love dylan. he's a good poet. but musically, she's light > years >> ahead of him, and that's what kicks it over the top for me. > > And I say Right on, David! I agree 200%! I hope I don't get stoned for this, but I REALLY don't get the appeal of Dylan. The music's great, and the poetry's wonderful, but I've NEVER sat through a more painful concert than Dylan opening for Joni and Van Morrison at UCLA in 1998. The audience was awful (loud and rude), and I couldn't understand a SINGLE WORD the man said! It was more hideous than a junior high school choir concert. Let Joan Baez sing his songs. - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:44:02 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: Blah Express. Hi all, Joni herself has made a few references admitting that the L.A. Express weren't the most 'with it' band around. But they helped her immesely at the time. It was the beginning of her finding back up artists who could handle her music with depth and class. Much of this is due to the sumpsuous efforts of Tom Scott and John Guerin; who are major talents, in my humblest opinion. John Guerin in particular added so much class and richness to her music. Not to mention I believe he 'erased a few lines on her face' with a few kisses and touch of his fingers. Even those of us who aren't even taken with him in those regards surely must admit his drumming on the Paprika Plains jam is absolutely mercurial!!! It is such a crisp, brilliant passage. Much of the jazzy textures in her transition period hang on his brilliant play. As much as I love Joan, I believe her 'expressive' tremolo (is this the right term? Paz, help?) borders on being a handicap. Especially true on Mingus, which I love. Her lapses in timing do not serve the music and her inflections were not state of the art. Beautiful as her voice is here, one would not mistake her for Sahrah Vaughn on this one. She is more radiant a singer when she has a great drummer to help keep her beat true. (Only Brian Blade equals the wonderful touch of John Guerin.) Check out the vast improvement between the tape tree material where she does one of her earliest takes of Mingus's music live, Dry Cleaner's From Des Moines on Mingus, and then on Shadows and Light. She is so bubbly and vibrant and 'on' the beat with SandL. Her growth as a singer has been breathtaking since. Even my bud, Richard, who is polite about Joan only out of kindness to me, was quite taken hearing her on Herbie Hancock's cd. There, she really brings a depth to her singing that ranks with the best of jazz interpreters. It's this growth of her's as a singer that has me so excited for BSN, in spite of it lacking... NJC, New Joni Content! Which REMINDS me, When I got my first tape tree material and played some very early joni stuff, Richard burst into gaffaws, shaming us all for playing stuff he felt Joni would NEVER want anyone to hear now. By his mind, he is grateful poets distroy the bad stuff as to protect it from what we are doing here. In any case, he is always teasing, wondering: "When is the Joni breathing Tape Tree is coming out?" and my fave, "When are they releasing the Joni Sea Chanties?' Bob? Ashara? Jim? Best to all. John, not Rich, wishing everyone well. Especially Wally. - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:35:14 +0800 (JST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: BSN single? > > BUT, other pop singer have done VERY well with similar albums in their careers... Carly Simon, Linda Ronstadt, Toni Tenille, Natalie Cole, for example. > > Jerry > Not to mention Rickie Lee Jones and Sheena Easton. Joseph - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:47:21 +0800 (JST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: Applause Applause NJC I remembered being in a classical concert where members of the audience were told not to applaud in between movements. When the opening strains of Vivaldi's "Spring" was heard, the audience (mostly freshmen college students who were watching a clasical concert for the first time for their humanities class) cheered and applaud because they were able to connect with the commercial on TV that used Vivaldi's music. Realizing that they should not clap, the audience roared into self-censure sound and listened quietly until it was finished. I think the spontaneity of applause sounds more genuine and exhilirating beyond words. Joseph np: Harry Connick, Jr. "We are in Love" > > But with classical concerts, I wonder about the silences in between > movements where you Must Not Applaud. In general terms, classical music > is blighted by the idea that it's only for sophisticated people. And the > fact that there is this rule about applause at the concerts only serves > to reinforce that idea. I'm quite sure that amongst some concert goers, > (though I'm sure not of you Scott), there is also an element of, "Well > listen to those people clapping, they don't know that the piece isn't > over yet, unlike the rest of us who are SO much more knowledgeable. > Well, REALLY." - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #47 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to - ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to - ------- Siquomb, isn't she? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:04:42 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Rolling Thunder Logbook The following link appears to have the text (full?) of Sam Shepard's Rolling Thunder Logbook, with some Joni references: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/2929/logbook.html The chapter simply titled "Joni Mitchell" read thusly: Here's someone who just appears, just walks out with a plain guitar, a beret, and a history of word collage. Every single time the place goes up in smoke like a brush fire. She stands there in the midst of it, making believe she's tuning an already well adjusted guitar until the place calms down. No doubt the element of surprise, of the audience not knowing she's on the bill, is partly responsible for the explosions, but there's something more important in it - the fact that people listen to her every word. Her music's nothing outrageous, but her word maneuverings tend to verge on uncanny. "I got a head full of quandry and a mighty, mighty, mighty thirst." She seems to have merged into a unique jazz structure with lyrics and rhythmic construction and even managed to bite the masses in the ear with it. There's no search engine and the chapter headings are cryptic, so I don't know where the other Joni references are, although I've heard there are a few. I have no idea who created this page or whether we can trust the transcription. But there it is. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #48 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?