From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #38 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, January 21 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 038 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- NJC Urge to Merge [Vince Lavieri ] RE: Most Depressing Bible verse NJC [Louis Lynch ] Re: Raised on Robbery of Dawson's Creek NJC! NJC! NJC! ["Catherine McKay] Re: most depressing song (NJC) [David Wright ] Re:JMDL Studios ... it could happen! [Martin Giles ] Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L [Martin Giles ] Re: Wally's Health NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Wally's Health JC [Susan McNamara ] joni and anger ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: Wally's Health ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re: Autograph Hounds (Minus Zero) NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Wally's Health [Don Rowe ] Re: joni and anger [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Cost of Housing - NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Wally's Health [Louis Lynch ] RE: joni and anger ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: joni and anger [Don Rowe ] Re: Playing with Words and Meanings (NJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: joni and anger [Louis Lynch ] Re: most depressing song(NJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: most depressing song(VLJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] re: joni/anger ["Takats, Angela" ] RE: most depressing song(NJC) [Louis Lynch ] Wally [Medric Faulkner ] Re: joni and anger ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Wally's Health ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: joni and anger ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Re Minus Zero NJC [catman ] Re: Wally's Health JC [Linda Worster ] RE: most depressing song(NJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Most depressing song NJC ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re: NJC/re: Violent/non-violent irony [catman ] Re: most depressing song (NJC) [catman ] Re: most depressing song-Nilsson(NJC) [waytoblu@mindspring.com] NJC Virus blues ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Wally [Steve Dulson ] Re: joni and anger [catman ] Re: joni and anger [catman ] Re: Wally's Health [catman ] Re: Most Depressing Bible verse NJC [catman ] Re: most depressing song(VLJC) [catman ] Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L [catman ] Re: Wally's Health [catman ] Re: joni/anger [catman ] Re:most depressing song ( NJC ) [mr_lovesaint@webtv.net] Re: NJC Virus blues ["Michael Paz" ] Re: joni and anger-njc [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: joni and anger-njc because of the f word [Siresorrow@aol.com] RE: Wally's Health [Deb Messling ] Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L [Mike Friedman Subject: NJC Urge to Merge From the 1-24-00 New Yorker, article by Andy Borowitz, in its entirety: In a stunning development that sent shock waves through the worlds of entertainment, the Internet, and rock-star-sperm donation, federal regulators hinted today that they would approve the merger between America Online and Time Warner, but would not give their assent to a similar alliance between the rock musicians Melissa Etheridge and David Crosby. On paper, according to Justice Department sources, the two transactions are strikingly similar. Both parent companies (A.O.L., Etheridge) are allying themselves with once glorious but not bloated entities that have a history of bingeing and indebtedness (Time Warner, Crosby). The acquired companies both have attempted multiple comebacks, going so far as to add new parts to spruce themselves up: in Time Warner's case, the acquisition of Turner Broadcasting System; in Crosby's case, the addition of a new liver. One Justice Department official said that the only substantive difference between the two mergers appeared to be one of size. It is unclear, however, which merger was bigger, since, as the official pointed out, "it's very difficult to assess joust how big David Crosby is." read by, and posted by, (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:42:10 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Most Depressing Bible verse NJC WOooooo Hoooooooo Vince! This has to be one of the funniest posts of all times! It made me roar in peals of holy laughter! With raw and everance, Harper Lou - -----Original Message----- From: Vince Lavieri [mailto:revrvl@pathwaynet.com] Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 2:33 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Most Depressing Bible verse NJC All this most depressing song stuff (wonderful for a man on his sick bed propped up to the computer) makes me think of the most depressing Bible verse... and this comnes with a poor taste alert: Luke 14.20 Another said, "I have just been married and I cannot come." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:42:08 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Wally's Health Thanks, Leslie, for your commitment to our dear friend Wally Breese. My prayers are with him, Jim, yourself, and our whole community. We would have never come together if it wasn't for Wally's vision. I'm very very sad. Love, Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:44:12 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Raised on Robbery of Dawson's Creek NJC! NJC! NJC! >Is this JC or not JC? > >I'd say this is (SJC) -- now if you had kicked Fang in >the shins -- THAT would be JC. I hope you realize, when I said that, I was just being a pain in the ass. As usual. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:53:32 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: most depressing song (NJC) On Fri, 21 Jan 2000, Alan Larson wrote: > I would also offer up Dylan's Percy's Song as a depressing song. > ....Arlo liked it enough to do a cover as well. Fairport Convention with Sandy Denny, too (on _Unhalfbricking_ and _Heyday_). - --David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 19:33:51 +0000 From: Martin Giles Subject: Re:JMDL Studios ... it could happen! OK guys. Move out of the way, I volunteer my services as recording engineer at the jmdl studio. Of course, if the studio is going to be at your house Larry, I'll assume you will be paying my expenses (air fares etc.) as I'm situated in England most of the time. George Massenburg. > Okay, so this delicious bit about Joni selling her > home studio has got me to thinking -- we're over 600 > strong, right? I'll bet we could gin up enough cash > to score her gear -- at an extra-special "internet > community" discount, of course. Then we open our own > recording studio -- and put out a REAL tribute album. > There's just one catch -- the gear will have to be > installed in my house ... I assume no one would > object, naturally, since I'm the producer. ;-) > > Larry Klein ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:02:50 +0000 From: Martin Giles Subject: Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L Jason said.. > I'm not really a huge fan of Live albums, and I had expected MoA and S&L to > always be the *gaps* on my Joni collection. Usually I would agree with you about live albums. For the most part they seem to contain nothing particularly new, but S&L is very different. All the way through, the arrangements are very different, and (IMO) better than the originals in many ways. I particularly love the tracks from Mingus that appear on S&L. Goodbye Pork Pie Hat is sublime, and the beebopped version of Dry Cleaner blows me away. I'm sure that Joni says somewhere about how she loved the way that those guys played on that tour, that there was so much listening going on. They were really cooking! On the original album, I have always felt that these tracks lack a lot of sparkle and energy. I suppose being very jazzy, they benefit from being played live infront of an audience. But then thinking about In France They Kiss On Main Street, Edith And The Kingpin, etc, etc, God they're all so good. I hardly ever get the studio albums out to listen to these tracks, they are hugely surpassed by their live versions.. Oh and the Amelia/Pat's solo/Hejira section sends me to nirvana every time. OK, you get the picture. I like this album. No. I LOVE this album. Infact I'm going to go home now and play it again. atb, Martin. In London ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:26:15 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Wally's Health NJC Sue said it all: <> I'm breaking a rule. "Me too". Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:27:42 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Wally's Health JC This topic is very JC as far as I'm concerned. No rules apply. Love to you all, Sue >Sue said it all: > ><> > >I'm breaking a rule. "Me too". > >Bob ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:30:36 +1100 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: joni and anger Hello there, I've been listening to some Alanis Morissette stuff lately....so many of her songs are overflowing with anger and deep hurt...and i've been thinking about joni's work, and trying to come up with songs in which she expresses such anger...i don't have all her albums, but even when she seems to be at her worst - very down and 'blue' she never really displays anger at her situation? any ideas from listers on this topic? Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:32:12 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Wally's Health Does anyone on the list know how we could possibly get an advance copy of "Both Sides Now" for Wally to listen to? Alan Lorimer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:37:26 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Autograph Hounds (Minus Zero) NJC CatGirl asked: >how many others are out there that actually ENJOY winter? I enjoy about two days of it. The days I like is when there's nice clean snow on the ground, but the sun is shining. I don't care how cold it is - as long as the snow is clean and the sun is shining, I'm out there. And that only happens about twice all winter. OK, maybe three times. I tried like crazy to find a winter sport I could actually enjoy. Skiing is too expensive and you have to travel too far to get there - never mind the potential for breaking every bone in your body or impaling yourself on a branch or braining yourself on some tree. Skating is cheap but, try as I may, I can never get it right. I even took skating lessons, of the type they offer through Parks and Recreation to adults. I had a vision in my head of what is was going to be like, but I could never get comfortable with it. There's just something unnatural about trying to put all your body weight onto a couple of thin metal blades. You can only toboggan here once or twice a year - somehow the snow is never quite right for it, and there aren't enough hills close by. The best thing about winter is remembering how we bitched in the summer about how hot and humid it was and think, aaah, those were the days. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:41:39 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Wally's Health JC Leslie, I know that was difficult to write and post. But thank you for your straight forward remarks and keeping us in the know. You, Jim, and Steve are Wally's angels now. You are all in our thoughts. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:41:22 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Wally's Health I couldn't agree more with Sue Mac on both points -- I share a deepending saddness over this news, wondering yet again, if a more charitable God would even allow such things to happen to such people as Wally. As for the NJC tag -- were it not for the dedication and heroism of Wally Breese -- the entire Internet would be "NJC." And our world darker for it ... Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:47:24 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni and anger Ange asks: <> IMO Joni's very deceptive with her "angry songs" because she doesn't sing "angry"...she sings sad, she sings melancholy, but her anger is tough because her voice is so pretty. She admits this herself, and says she enjoys hearing a singer like Tim Curry who can "spit her words out" better than she can. Sex Kills is a very angry song, but it doesn't project anger from the recording. The live version from New Orleans is better, the guitar is distorted and raw, and projects the anger much better. By the same token, Joni CAN express anger...I saw those eyes shoot flame at the asshole in Atlanta who disupted her show, she had no problem verbally squashing him like the gnat he was. I imagine she wanted to even kick him in the shins! ;~) Bob NP: ZZ Top, "I'm Bad, I'm Nationwide" PS: Depressing song: Rickie Lee Jones, "Skeletons" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 20:51:38 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Cost of Housing - NJC Alan wrote: >There seems to be considerable comment about the high cost of >housing in >the US and Canada. Many people have made the move to >Tasmania because of >the affordability of housing [...] >The catch? General lack of money and employment, especially on the >NW >Coast. What? Aren't they looking for Tazzie Devil wranglers? Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:57:12 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Wally's Health Agreed! JoniMitchell.com was the first place I ever visited on the Internet, and I could not imagine it not being there. I don't know you personally Wally, but I've seen your spirit, and it's a great one! Thank you! Harper Lou PS: Does anyone know anyone at Warner Brothers, or Reprise, or Joni's staff? Can we can get Wally a special copy of her new CD, if he doesn't have it already? - -----Original Message----- From: Don Rowe [mailto:dgrowe227@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 3:41 PM To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Wally's Health I couldn't agree more with Sue Mac on both points -- I share a deepending saddness over this news, wondering yet again, if a more charitable God would even allow such things to happen to such people as Wally. As for the NJC tag -- were it not for the dedication and heroism of Wally Breese -- the entire Internet would be "NJC." And our world darker for it ... Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 07:58:39 +1100 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: RE: joni and anger Hey Bob....thanks for your thoughts on joni/anger...I agree that the pretty nature of her voice makes it hard for her to express fierce anger. And when i think of it, Alanis' voice does come across as almost 'ugly' in some of her really angry songs...cause she's just fuming. I'm not one to write many angry songs...I'm a bit of a joni, in that I am more inspired by depression and lonliness - when it comes to 'negative' types of emotions to write about. But I do think it's interesting that someone like Joni - who has a gift of expressing the most complex situations/emotions/relationships in her work...seems to have avoided touching on an emotion that so many of us can relate to... more of my thoughts - - Ange Sydney > Ange asks: > > < her worst - very down and 'blue' she never really displays anger at her > situation? any ideas from listers on this topic?>> > > IMO Joni's very deceptive with her "angry songs" because she doesn't sing > "angry"...she sings sad, she sings melancholy, but her anger is tough > because her voice is so pretty. She admits this herself, and says she > enjoys hearing a singer like Tim Curry who can "spit her words out" better > than she can. > > Sex Kills is a very angry song, but it doesn't project anger from the > recording. The live version from New Orleans is better, the guitar is > distorted and raw, and projects the anger much better. > > By the same token, Joni CAN express anger...I saw those eyes shoot flame > at the asshole in Atlanta who disupted her show, she had no problem > verbally squashing him like the gnat he was. I imagine she wanted to even > kick him in the shins! ;~) > > Bob > > NP: ZZ Top, "I'm Bad, I'm Nationwide" > > PS: Depressing song: Rickie Lee Jones, "Skeletons" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:00:25 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: joni and anger Hi Ange -- I made a promise to myself that I wouldn't get involved in any more Alanis Morrissette discussions, but I find myself unable to resist. First of all, Alanis' anger never struck me as anything but a contrived and cliched schtick -- since her material flatly refuses to consider even the slightest possibility of her actions contributing to her suffering. Sure she whines at high volume about what a victim she is ... but that's not anger, it's carefully practiced stagecraft. Contrast that with Joni, who has always been continually searching for things she's done or said, that have brought her to where she is, or brought her to how she feels. In such an honest search, anger becomes unfocused and ineffectual, giving way to deeper layers of understanding. Even "Lead Balloon" immediately questions it's initial drink throwing tantrum ... and that's why Joni has lasted -- and Alanis will not. But there are plenty of genuinely angry moments -- "Tax Free", for example ... and in "Cherokee Louise" where she hisses like a cornered snake the line "and he drags her to her knees" ... "The Windfall" is plenty angry -- as we've been discussing recently. And there is righteous anger throughout "Sex Kills" as well. Oh our Joan has her angry moments, they're just not artless counterfeits, as they are, like real anger itself -- brief and quickly tempered with other feelings. Let the pyrotechnics begin! Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:01:54 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Playing with Words and Meanings (NJC) Here's another one you'd probably enjoy: From the Washington Post Invitational contest, which calls them Merge-Matic Books: Readers were asked to combine the works of two authors, and to provide a suitable blurb: Second Runner-Up: "Machiavelli's The Little Prince" - Antoine de Saint-Exupery's classic children's tale as presented by Machiavelli. The whimsy of human nature is embodied in many delightful and intriguing characters, all of whom are executed. (Erik Anderson, Tempe, Ariz.) First Runner-Up: "Green Eggs and Hamlet" - Would you kill him in his bed? Thrust a dagger through his head? I would not, could not, kill the King. I could not do that evil thing. I would not wed this girl, you see. Now get her to a nunnery. (Robin Parry, Arlington) And the Winner of the Dancing Critter: "Fahrenheit 451 of the Vanities" - An '80s yuppie is denied books. He does not object, or even notice. (Mike Long, Burke) Honorable Mentions: "Where's Walden?"- Alas, the challenge of locating Henry David Thoreau in each richly-detailed drawing loses its appeal when it quickly becomes clear that he is always in the woods. (Sandra Hull, Arlington) "Catch-22 in the Rye" - Holden learns that if you're insane, you'll probably flunk out of prep school, but if you're flunking out of prep school, you're probably not insane. (Brendan Beary, Great Mills) "2001: A Space Iliad"- The Hal 9000 computer wages an insane 10-year war against the Greeks after falling victim to the Y2K bug. (Joseph Romm, Washington) "Rikki-Kon-Tiki-Tavi"- Thor Heyerdahl recounts his attempt to prove Rudyard Kipling's theory that the mongoose first came to India on a raft from Polynesia. (David Laughton, Washington) "The Maltese Faulkner" - Is the black bird a tortured symbol of Sam's struggles with race and family? Does it signify his decay of soul along with the soul of the Old South? Is it merely a crow, mocking his attempts to understand? Or is it worth a cool mil? (Thad Humphries, Warrenton) "Jane Eyre Jordan" - Plucky English orphan girl survives hardships to lead the Chicago Bulls to the NBA championship. (Dave Pickering, Bowie) "Looking for Mr. Godot"- A young woman waits for Mr. Right to enter her life. She has a loooong wait. (Jonathan Paul, Garrett Park) "The Scarlet Pimpernel Letter" - An 18th-century English nobleman leads a double life, freeing comely young adulteresses from the prisons of post-Revolution France. "Lorna Dune" - An English farmer, Paul Atreides, falls for the daughter of a notorious rival clan, the Harkonnens, and pursues a career as a giant worm jockey in order to impress her. "The Remains of the Day of the Jackal" - A formal English butler puts his loyalty to his employer above all else, until he is persuaded to join a plot to assassinate Charles deGaulle. "The Invisible Man of La Mancha"- Don Quixote discovers a mysterious elixir which renders him invisible. He proceeds to go on a mad rampage of corruption and terror, attacking innocent people in the streets and all the while singing "To fight the Invisible Man!" until he is finally stopped by a windmill. "Singing in the Black Rain"- A gang of vicious Japanese druglords beat the shit out of Gene Kelly. "Of Three Blind Mice and Men" - Burgess Meredith has his limbs hacked off by a psychopathic farmer's wife. Did you ever see such a sight in your life? "Planet of the Grapes of Wrath" - Astronaut lands on mysterious planet, only to discover that it is his very own home planet of Earth,which has been taken over by the Joads, a race of dirt-poor corn farmers who miraculously developed rudimentary technology and evolved the ability to speak after exposure to nuclear radiation. "Paradise Lost in Space"- Satan, Moloch, and Belial are sentenced to spend eternity in a flying saucer with a goofy robot, an evil scientist, and 2 annoying children. "The Exorstentialist" - Camus psychological thriller about a priest who casts out a demon by convincing it that there's really no purpose to what it's doing. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com P.S. I must be really warped because all this talk about depressing songs is cracking me up! :D ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:04:21 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: [Fwd: Joni Mitchell - Both Sides Now] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------6EF48D7869AD206EE9B2AB42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just in from Reprise. Jerry - --------------6EF48D7869AD206EE9B2AB42 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from wbr-gatekeep.WBR.COM ([205.143.70.70]) by bayflash.stpt.usf.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17826 for ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:14:40 -0500 (EST) Received: by WBR-GATEKEEP with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 21 Jan 2000 12:53:32 -0800 Message-ID: <1880B7146BE6D2118C9F00805FEAB47F42C2E1@WBR-CORP> From: Reprise To: Subject: Joni Mitchell - Both Sides Now Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:00:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Re: Joni Mitchell Advance Orders on "Both Sides Now" (Limited Edition) The email is to inform you that there was an editorial error on the "Both Sides Now" (Limited Edition) website. It stated that the limited edition box contains "Joni Mitchell's personal signature" -- this will not be the case. The limited edition special packaging will contain the CD and four original Joni Mitchell lithographs but no signature. If you would like to cancel your order, you may do so by sending an email to tworder@customersvc.com or call 800-274-9700. We apologized for any inconvenience this may have caused. Sincerely, Reprise Records - --------------6EF48D7869AD206EE9B2AB42-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:05:39 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: most depressing song(VLJC) >I introduce "Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye" as the most cheerful song I >do, >because unlike my other Irish songs that are all about death, >"Johnny" is >only about dismemberment. ROTFL! IF you haven't read Roddy Doyle's "A Star Called Henry", you must - you'll be laughing and crying at the same time. It's kind of an Irish song in novel format. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:06:00 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: joni and anger Ange asks: <> I think "Three Great Stimulants" is a very angry song. In fact, there are several very angry sets of lyrics on Dog Eat Dog. I remember being impressed with Joni's straightforward expressions of disgust and anger on the album. It seemed so innovative for her, because most of her other work weaves a lot of emotions together. There's nothing nebulous about DED -- it is pure emotion, and I still think it's one of her strongest works. She didn't use poetry or tongue-in-cheek (Big Yellow Taxi) lyrics to make her point. Her voice wasn't as "pretty" on DED, so it may have added to the overall feeling. I know you all might cringe, but there are times I like DED best of all! (except that Thomas Dolby thing, of course) The "Lead Balloon" cut from Taming the Tiger sounds angry to me. Some of her lyrics on other TTT tracks are hostile as well. Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:10:48 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: most depressing song(NJC) >I would have to say that THE MOST DEPRESSING SONG OF ALL TIME goes >to >Harry Nilsson...I can't live, if living is *Without You*! THAT >song has >made me cry EVERYTIME!!! He does such a WONDERFUL job of that song - why the hell did they let Mariah Carey do a remake of it? There oughta be a law! No one did it like Harry and no one should even try! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:13:57 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: most depressing song(VLJC) Don tortures Lou: >Harper, I'm surprised at you ... since you've quit, I >thought surely you'd pick "Smokin' --Empty Try >Another" as the most depressing Joni song! ;-) It IS depressing. Why, Joni, why?? Does anyone else think it starts off sounding kinda like Pink Floyd's "Money"? Or is it just me... I am so full of depressing song ideas that I think I'm going to have to drink myself into oblivion. Thanks a lot, guys! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:17:27 +1100 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: re: joni/anger Don wrote: <> Your comments are very interesting Don...I agree that Joni is a very talented and, well, just brilliant song writer ... and there is such depth to her songs...u r right that she is always asking herself why she's where she is - instead of bitching about it...it's obvious she spends a lot of time thinking and analysing things... Some of the 'angry' songs you've mentioned i am yet to hear - I haven't heard DED yet... As for Alanis...I have never been a big fan..but I do like her newest album...I think the youth of today find her work so easy to relate to - I do belive that is real anger in her songs, and it's anger that most people my age can understand...I play joni's work to friends and it's too complex, I don't know if it's an age thing, but they don't want to take the time to digest and think about her lyrics..it's just an "I don't get that" - move onto the next song - still don't get it - opt for something less complex...do u know what i mean? more thoughts Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:23:20 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: most depressing song(NJC) Mariah who? What is this strange thing you say Catherine? What is "mariahcarey"? It sounds familiar, but I can't place it. I know, it's one of those funny looking fried things on the gourmet appetizer platter from the Panna Indian Restaurant on Second Avenue. No, that's not it. Oh yeah, that funny suicide thing they do in Japan. No. Yes, now I remember, they opened for Motley Crue in the 1988 world tour! Harper Lou He does such a WONDERFUL job of that song - why the hell did they let Mariah Carey do a remake of it? There oughta be a law! No one did it like Harry and no one should even try! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:33:47 -0800 (PST) From: Medric Faulkner Subject: Wally Leslie, It was beautiful of you to inform us in such a loving way. Medric __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:32:23 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: joni and anger Ange says: >I've been listening to some Alanis Morissette stuff lately....so >many of >her >songs are overflowing with anger and deep hurt...and i've been >thinking >about joni's work, and trying to come up with songs in which she >expresses >such anger...i don't have all her albums, but even when she seems to >be at >her worst - very down and 'blue' she never really displays anger at >her >situation? any ideas from listers on this topic? I think Joni is a deeper person than Alanis (in all fairness to Alanis, it may be too soon to tell). Joni seems to see things, oh shucks, from "both sides now" - she can see a situation from all sides. I think Alanis was just very angry when she did "Jagged little pill". I wonder if there's an age-difference or generation thing going on too? People are freer with their language these days, the f-word seems to be every second word with some people (to the deteriment of all the other words they could be using instead). Alanis seems to be on a rant in some of her songs, whereas Joni sometimes rants but it seems more therapeutic for her - and she never seems to lose her sense of humour through it all, or her sense of irony, or whatever. Just a random rant. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:34:32 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Wally's Health >I couldn't agree more with Sue Mac on both points -- I >share a deepending saddness over this news, wondering >yet again, if a more charitable God would even allow >such things to happen to such people as Wally. > >As for the NJC tag -- were it not for the dedication >and heroism of Wally Breese -- the entire Internet >would be "NJC." And our world darker for it ... Don, that was so well-expressed. It does make you wonder, doesn't it? I didn't even want to say anything. What is there to say? God love him. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:37:22 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: joni and anger Ange, on Alanis, says: >And when i think of it, Alanis' voice does come across as almost >'ugly' in >some of her really angry songs...cause she's just fuming Doesn't it make you wonder - just how long can a person remain that fumingly angry? I mean, usually you just blow up, you rant, then it's over. It's such an intense emotion it couldn't possibly last that long. Could it? On the other hand now, depression, that can last a looooonnnnngggg time... Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:41:33 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Re Minus Zero NJC I have lived in sveral different climates. Singapore where it is hot and humid all year around. Australia where it was very hot most of the time tho we did have a winter where it dropped to around 50.(we wore parkers and sweaters). Germany where I don't recall the summers but winters were cold with deep deep snow. England where winter is not that cold but long and damp and summers too hot and sticky. Spent two weeks in New england and Canda during winter- where it was - 30 sometimes. Have to say i love the winter I experienced there and the ones in germany. i guess I prefer a temperate climate where the seasons are obvious. I don't count England as that. I prefer more dramatic changes. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:38:56 -0500 From: Linda Worster Subject: Re: Wally's Health JC Susan wrote: >This topic is very JC as far as I'm concerned. No rules apply. > and Don added: >As for the NJC tag -- were it not for the dedication >and heroism of Wally Breese -- the entire Internet >would be "NJC." And our world darker for it ... I was thinking this same thing. I too am very sad and send my love to Wally, Jim and you all. Linda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:42:45 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: most depressing song(NJC) >Mariah who? > >What is this strange thing you say Catherine? > >What is "mariahcarey"? It sounds familiar, but I can't place it. It's a horrible illness for which there is no cure. It is kind of like emotional dysentery, but of the plastic variety. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:43:45 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Most depressing song NJC Some Aussi content for "most depressing song" "Looking like a choirgirl Crying like a refugee Looking like a choirgirl Crying like a refugee One nurse to hold her One nurse to wheel her down The corridors of healing And I've being trying But she's crying like a refugee" Don Walker's song about a young girl forced to have an abortion. From Cold Chisel's album "East" Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:48:28 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC/re: Violent/non-violent irony > general issue of the > cult of celebrity, and the disparities between Just Folks and the > Rich-n-Famous. Personally, I have never understood why people elavate other people with a talent like this. Or even why they do with the 'good'. It is great to admire qualities in people but not good to lose sight of the fact that we are all equal in worth.I love both Joni and Carly as singer/songwriters but have never seen either of them as more than what they are-humans. There was a time I was really interested to understand how they can produce music but came to the conclusion it is not understandable-any more than I could explain how my particular talent works. it just does. I am sure it baffles those who can't the same way I am baffled by how anyone can 'make up a tune'. In the end we all have our role to play and none is more important than the other. > It can become a problem on a list like this (of which I > am an occasionally vocal member), and I'd hate to see it go unchecked, > regardless of Joni's supreme talents and rarefied life. > > Just folks, > Kate in CO - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:54:55 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: URGENT VIRUS ALERT -- PRETTY PARKNJC Thank you for the warning. Just after I rwad your warning someone cow called Amy sent it to me! No idea who she is and I have reported it to her ISP. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:54:16 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Cost of Housing - NJC Catherine said > >What? Aren't they looking for Tazzie Devil wranglers? Well if you come to Tasmania, at least 'Fang' will have a job. Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:00:36 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: most depressing song (NJC) At Seventeen (Janis Ian) Job's Sad Song (by you know who) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:22:59 -0500 From: waytoblu@mindspring.com Subject: Re: most depressing song-Nilsson(NJC) >I would have to say that THE MOST DEPRESSING SONG OF ALL TIME goes to Harry >Nilsson...I can't live, if living is *Without You*! THAT song has made me >cry EVERYTIME!!! He was good friends with John Lennon and John appeared on >his lp called *Pussy Cats* under the guise of >Dr. Winston O'Boogie, MD ( Manic Depressive). Just in case no one knew that. >Catgirl Harry Nilsson should also get the Award for the Most Humorous Broken Heart/Breakup Song as well. I can't remember the name of the song but the chorus goes " ...you broke my heart so f*#k you...". George Harrison played on this album under the name of George Harrysong I believe Victor ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:32:07 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC Virus blues Dennis Miller thinks that we should promote safe sex. He says that in everyday life, he wears 2 condoms. When goes on a date, he takes one off..... He feels like a wild man. Michael Paz said, My sincere apologies to everyone that might have been infected by being on my list. I guess this means that will have to wear condoms from now on. Best wishes to all. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:36:32 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Wally I am heartbroken to read of Wally's condition. My prayers are with Wally, and Jim, and with this wonderful community that Wally has done so much to create. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:31 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: joni and anger > inspired by depression anger and depression seem to be the same thing only depression is anger unexpressed or denied. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:40 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: joni and anger I would suggest there is much anger on display in DED and TI. Prhaps it is more an anger at the world and injustice rather than at people who have personally hurt her(tho The Windfall is just one). Job's Sad Song is also a raging song but maybe not personal, tho i fail to see how she was singing that in a detached way. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:36 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Wally's Health Don Rowe wrote: > I couldn't agree more with Sue Mac on both points -- I > share a deepending saddness over this news, wondering > yet again, if a more charitable God would even allow > such things to happen to such people as Wally. The suffering of people is dreadful beyond words but i don't think it has anything to do with God. Imagine what a world it would be if the rules were changed when it suited?NO ONE but NO OnE deserves an unkind death. maybe one day we will know the answers. My friend Ann died last week of pancreatic cancer. She was a homeopath and a counsellor. she was 60 She gave much to people. She was the wife of my theapist-now friend. She died painless and at peace and as she said'her work here was done' and she was ready to 'go home'. > > > As for the NJC tag -- were it not for the dedication > and heroism of Wally Breese -- the entire Internet > would be "NJC." And our world darker for it ... > > Don Rowe > > ===== > "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:48 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Most Depressing Bible verse NJC Oh Vince! That cheered me up. you wicked boy! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:41:10 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Cost of Housing - NJC You should try affording a house in the UK especially in London where a one bed flat will cost $160, 000(USA). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:59 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: most depressing song(VLJC) Here it is fairly common to have a 'suicide tape' which is a compilation of the saddest sonmgs one an think of. Actually just remmebred another which oputs a lump in throat everytime-Scorn Not His Simplicity by Sinead O'Conner.(about a child born with handicaps) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:44 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L I know this is ot a popular view, but I hate live albums! Am always so diappointed. Why do they have to change the damn songs? Okay, a little change here and there but really to change the whole thing just pisses me off. and joni is a big offender to me! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:41:06 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: most depressing song(NJC) Forgot Bette's version of Stay With me. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:52 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Wally's Health I was deeply moved by this message about wally(and also angered). There is nothing I can say that will make any difference to Wally at present but I know wally will never cease to exist, tho he will leave his body behind. Once his suffering is over he will be on a tremendous exciting journey. With much love going with him. The bit that angered me: the fucking(scuse my french)insurance people!!! Seeing US medical programs and docs, we know the situation. How truly tacky and meansprited and totally digusting. Okay our NHS is by no means perfect but at least it is still humane and you can get the best treatment regardless of your 'worth'. You can also get the worst regarldess but mostly you are treated and not got to sign bloody papers the minute you arrive in the casualty dept. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:44:02 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: joni/anger > but they don't want to take the time to > digest and think about her lyrics..it's just an "I don't get that" - move > onto the next song - still don't get it - opt for something less > complex...do u know what i mean? Yes! But I don;t think it is confined to just the young. Most people live that way-nat wanting to know much. The way tv and news is presented doesn't help. No one has much of an attention span it seems. Life is too fast and meaningless for may. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:10:37 -0500 (EST) From: mr_lovesaint@webtv.net Subject: Re:most depressing song ( NJC ) I agree with " cats in the cradle "...my father hated this song but i liked it very young and would sing it often around the house. every time, his eyes would tear up. also " father and son " by cat stevens ...and the song by john sebastian (sp?) about the kid growng up and borrowing the car and doing drugs and such. ( younger generation? ) i've just turned 29 and am childless but its these songs that make me dread parenthood. i already fear the loss . crap now im down. jess NP: neil young -harvest moon. but now changing the music to something happier ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:15:53 -0600 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Re: NJC Virus blues Jim- funny you should quote that line it is still one of my faves. Best. Michael - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim L'Hommedieu To: Michael Paz Cc: _JMDL - June 98 Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 4:32 PM Subject: NJC Virus blues > Dennis Miller thinks that we should promote safe sex. He says that in > everyday life, he wears 2 condoms. When goes on a date, > he takes one off..... He feels like a wild man. > > > > Michael Paz said, > My sincere apologies to everyone that might have been infected > by being on my list. I guess this means that will have to wear > condoms from now on. > > Best wishes to > all. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:36:39 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: joni and anger-njc In a message dated 1/21/00 3:51:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << I saw those eyes shoot flame at the asshole in Atlanta who disupted her show, >> is that the show where she called them...'you two little fucks' i still love that line, but i try not to use it at home, or on the only joni list...oh my ohh my...the only joni list!!!!! pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:39:33 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: joni and anger-njc because of the f word In a message dated 1/21/00 4:02:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: << Oh our Joan has her angry moments, >> i think Beat of Black Wings is an angry song. and she says fuck in that song too! pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:48:51 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: RE: Wally's Health Thanks, Leslie, for keeping us informed. I trust that Wally realizes what a difference he has made in the lives of so many people. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:54:12 -0800 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L But what's even worse, to me, is when people cover another artist's song, and DO IT EXACTLY THE SAME WAY as the original! I wanted to puke every time I heard "Turn the Beat Around" in the version by Gloria Estefan. Vicky Sue Robinson sang it fabulosly the FIRST TIME, Glo. Mike > From: catman > Reply-To: catman > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:44 +0000 > To: JONI DIGEST > Subject: Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L > > I know this is ot a popular view, but I hate live albums! Am always so > diappointed. Why do they have to change the damn songs? Okay, a little change > here and there but really to change the whole thing just pisses me off. and > joni > is a big offender to me! > > ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #38 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?