From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #17 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, January 11 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 017 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: CSN - Crosby Sperm Needed ? (NJC) [catman ] Re: don't believe the hype...(njc) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: JONI IN NEW ORLEANS!!!!!!! [MGVal@aol.com] Cover of Cold Blue Steel And Sweet Fire [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: "don't believe the hype...(njc) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Amour, mama, not cheap display! ["Mark or Travis" ] RE: JONI IN NEW ORLEANS!!!!!!! [Louis Lynch ] Re: CSN - Crosby Sperm Needed ? (NJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Crosby ["Bill Dollinger" ] Re: "Soloman kept his head in all his glory"? ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Slouching Towards Bethlehem njc ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: JONI IN NEW ORLEANS!!!!!!! NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Grammy (Jazz Vocal) - NJC [Bounced Message ] Re: Crosby NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Crosby and world overpopulation-NJC!!! [catman ] Re: ZPG NJC [catman ] JM in NOLA [howard ] RE: ZPG NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Crosby NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Another Joni Tribute? [Steve Dulson ] Re: Crosby and world overpopulation-NJC!!! [Steve Polifka ] Re: Crosby Sperm - NJC [Allison Fernley ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:30:24 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) wrote: >Also, the last time Les posted the numbers >it was revealed that approximately 2% of the >subscribed were on the Joni-only list. So all >that tagging of NJC is done by 98% for under >50 people. I think this is an interesting statistic and good reason to change the procedure. IMO, it makes more sense that we tag messages about Joni herself as JC. This would be much easier to remember and I'm sure there would be many fewer mistakes that would irritate the only-Joni listers. But this begs the same question that Kakki and Catgirl asked, what do the only-Joni folks consider only-Joni? JC seems like it should really pertain only to Joni herself - her public appearances, concerts, interviews, art shows, stories from people on the list who have met her in person, rumours about upcoming events - i.e. anything related directly to Joni. Personally, I find very interesting the stories of when we all first discovered Joni, how we feel about her music, what we think the lyrics mean, etc. However, none of that is really strictly JC - it is about ourselves - how Joni has affected/influenced us. Even the Jonifests are not strictly JC, even though they are in tribute to her (if Joni had not attended, what would have been the difference between Joni's Jazz and the Jonifests that have been held so far, other than that the performers were famous, paid, and professional and you had to pay to get in? - please don't flame me!!!). I am NOT in the only-Joni list. I appreciate all that I have learned so far from reading the NJC posts and I wouldn't want to miss anything potentially interesting - because I feel such a bond with the listers I have met and corresponded with - I really value what people in JMDL think. I understand that some only-Joni listers also value these things, but just don't have the time to read all of the NJC posts. I specifically did not mark this as NJC because I would like to hear views of the only-Joni listers. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:07:24 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: CSN - Crosby Sperm Needed ? (NJC) > . But the report that Crosby > plans no involvement at all struck me as cold and weird. It will probably be harmful to the children. 'this is your daddy but he wants nothing to do with you' won't go down very well with the children. > > > Kakki > > NP: Lani Hall - Varadero - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:34:58 +0800 (CST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Grammy (Jazz Vocal) - NJC I am just pleased that three of my favorite singers were all nominated for the Grammy for best jazz vocal: Diana Krall (When I Look In Your Eyes) Dianne Reeves (Bridges) Cassandra Wilson (Traveling Miles) Whoever wins from the three, I will be glad though I hope Reeves wins this time. My 2 cents for Best New Artist: I hope Macy Gray wins (very Billie Holiday and Me'shell Ndegeoshello), or Susan Tedeschi. Since Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera were both nominated, do you think they will cancel each other out? Please, please. Joseph (George Michael: "Roxanne" --better than Sting's) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:56:05 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: don't believe the hype...(njc) In a message dated 01/11/2000 3:06:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << hey guys... can i just say one thing??? hello? do you really think that melissa and her partner would reveal the "ACTUAL" identity of the "father".... c'mon... they probably just wanted to shut everyone up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! toooooooo funny.... np: roberta flack - the first time.... ever i saw.... >> You know, I am inclined toward this opinion also! What a hoot...gossips speculated that the father was perhaps Tom Hanks or Brad Pitt and it turns out to be a pudgy rock star has-been (in the public's eyes, not mine!) with a drinking problem and a fascination with guns. C'mon, indeed! But maybe I would rather believe this than take it so darn seriously because *it's none of my business anyway!* Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:58:23 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: JONI IN NEW ORLEANS!!!!!!! In a message dated 1/10/00 9:09:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, Harpua@revealed.net writes: << He says she is booked to play the NATPE >Convention (TV producers and actors etc.) later this month for a private show on the 28th of January at a local hotel ballroom. >> Seeing that I'm not going skiing or anything that weekend, count me in, too! Mandatory month end close at work be damned!! MG np: my youngest coughing away and scuzzing up my pillow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:00:27 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Cover of Cold Blue Steel And Sweet Fire Hi! Has anyone heard a recent Mountain Stage show that featured, among others, Toshi Reagan? On the show that was broadcast in my area last night, just before Ms. Reagan went on, I heard a woman performing CBSASF but because of the activity of my household, I was unable to catch the name of the performer. Anyone? Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:55:34 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: "don't believe the hype...(njc) In a message dated 1/11/2000 12:19:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, KerriLynn@aol.com writes: << c'mon... they probably just wanted to shut everyone up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! toooooooo funny.... >> I'm with Kerri on this one. My guess is this was either a joke on their part, or someone else started a rumor...unless they named the children Stephen and Graham... As a huge advocate for adoption (I have two adopted kids), I still have to agree with the other posters who say that, gay or not, it's an individual choice as to how one wants to have a family. It's the most natural thing in the world to want to have a biological child! Why shouldn't gays have the same feelings about that as heteros? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:40:41 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Amour, mama, not cheap display! Kathleen wrote: I would think Joni > picked it up from 'France proper'. Perhaps from hearing to Edith Piaf on the radio. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 06:48:37 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: CSN - Crosby Sperm Needed ? (NJC) > Maybe I'm just obtuse or old-fashioned about it. But the report that Crosby > plans no involvement at all struck me as cold and weird. > > Kakki I agree with this. I've never had any interest in having children of my own but I've always felt that it would be impossible for me to turn my back on a child if I did have one and not be involved with its upbringing. Seems very cold & irresponsible to me. But if that's the arrangement they made, so be it. Since everything is out in the open though, I would think things will get a bit awkward as time goes on. If I were one of Crosby's kids, I would certainly be curious about my other siblings. I read an article where Carly Simon said that long before she met James she used to fantasize about having his children & what beautiful voices they would have. People tend to choose other people who have common interests as their life-mates co-parents of their children. Is the choice of Croz any different than that? It sounds to me like Croz & his wife offered to do it and it just seemed logical and meant-to-be to Melissa & Julie. I don't think that is so calculating or 'engineered'. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:51:14 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Crosby and world overpopulation-NJC!!! Hi... I'm not one to get on the political "bandwagon", but... Who was it that said "don't believe all the hype? Well she's got a clue... >The - I have to reproduce even though human population is >skyrocketing out of control- mentality bugs me a bit. > >Bill > Here's my 3 cents... ( for catman...) End of Paradise (Threshold of Survival) Words and Music by Steve Polifka c 1999 We're lead to believe that everything is alright By TV ads and the powers that be The sky is blue with birds in flight Just ignore the progress spewing from the factories Cancer hot-spots underneath the power lines Everything wild is now in a zoo Mankind is chained to consumer stupidity Stripping down the earth for me and for you… Have we reached the threshold of survival? Must we destroy the land, the sea and the sky? My question lies - Is this the End of Paradise? I hear kids wanting kids of their own With house and car and cash in hand The American dream is gone Out the backdoor will be a barren wasteland… Mexico was once a vast rainforest 'Til Cortez had to have the biggest fleet Will we find ourselves - or our happiness As we trample everything under our feet? Have we reached the threshold of survival? Must we destroy the land, the sea and the sky? My question lies - Is this the End of Paradise? It's not just pollution in the air And the need to cut down every tree Chemical waste is buried everywhere How do I know what is safe to eat? Trash is a mile high underneath the shipping lanes Of the North Atlantic Sea Ocean viruses beaching the dolphins By the thousands upon every beach… Have we reached the threshold of survival? Must we destroy the land, the sea and the sky? My question lies - Is this the End of Paradise? Have we passed the threshold of survival? Must we destroy our land, our sea and our sky? Don't close your eyes - Is this the End of Paradise? Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:57:55 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Other Donors Mellissa and Partner considered...(njc) 1) Arnold Schwartzenegger............Melissa wants to do a duet with her child ala Nat & Natalie Cole on the Beatle chestnut "Ill be Back". 2) Dennis Rodman.......they didnt want their child to be average. 3) Wolfman Jack....they wanted the childs voice to be distinctive. 4) Stills Nash and Young (simultaneously) to keep the donors identity a secret until they heard which harmony part it could do. 5) Sean Penn.....They wanted the child to have personality. 6) Bill Clinton.....just to stop the flow of the massive amount of fed-ex delivered offers in writing received from the White House every day. This could also tend to advance the political career potential of the child in New York. 7) David Geffen....assures a record contract for the entire family. 8) Marlon Brando....just to see what the kid would turn out like. 9) Hulk Hogan.....We know the child will be able to sing but will it have, you know, stage presence.... 10) Marilyn Manson...this way an extra cosmetic endorsement is assurred along with musical tallent on the cutting edge. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:12:43 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: CSN - Crosby Sperm Needed ? (NJC) Sorry, I seem to have offended several people on the list. That wasn't my intent. You are right, the decision to have children is a PERSONAL decision. However, they posed for a photo opportunity on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine and turned it into an "exclusive" feature article. That's where my negative feelings about the whole situation started. The focus moved from their private family decision to a public political statement. That, to me, is self-indulgent and shows little concern for the children involved. Sorry, I didn't take more time trying to explain it. Catman, your turnaround with the racial situation is clever, but it's not an appropriate parallel to what I was trying to say. Thanks, Vince, for adding a wonderfully heartfelt viewpoint that focuses on the really important issue: the children. I have a 10-year-old daughter, and I often find myself wrestling between parental responsibility and my old "hippie" ideals. My comments on Melissa's front page Rolling Stone "advertisement" are based on that perspective. How can I teach Annie that we shouldn't judge people for what they do in their private lives, when they put it on the front pages of the newspaper? That's why I would be offended if I were gay -- politically, gays and lesbians are telling people it's wrong to judge them based on their PRIVATE choices. So, why would Melissa publicize an unorthodox arrangement that is bound to upset people of several different religions and political ideologies? Even though I find the arrangement bizarre, I support their freedom to do whatever they please. Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:26:31 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: WE are the fathers ... (NJC) In the hopes of putting this whole Ethridge pedigree question to bed once and for all ... WE are the fathers. 'Lissa wanted a baby with wit, who can play and produce its own albums and re-invent its public image as market dictated. Don/Larry/Chis/Daddy ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:31:45 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: JONI IN NEW ORLEANS!!!!!!! Michael, Please, please, please invite us! Some of us missed the PWWAM concert. A lot more of us missed the LACE opening. So we would really love to come to New Orleans! We'll behave ourselves, we promise! Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 15:50:36 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: CSN - Crosby Sperm Needed ? (NJC) I was going to stay out of this one, but what the hell. Just got back on the list after a 2-3 week hiatus and there's nothing like a good brouhaha. Victor said: > > In any case, I don't think Melissa Etheridge should be singled out >and > > branded as selfish and self-indulgent just because she is famous/ >and or a > > lesbian. I mean she's just a human being just like everyone else >and has > > the same kind of dreams, desires, hopes and fears. > > > To which Mark replied: > >I would just like to add this thought. If it is selfish & >self-indulgent for a same sex couple to want to somehow have a child >from their own genetic material rather than adopt, doesn't it follow >that it is also selfish & self-indulgent for a hetero couple to do the >same rather than adopt? Who wants to make that call? This is more of a question, rather than a comment. Is the issue the fact that they're gay, or is it the fact that they chose to use articial insemination to have a child? I often wonder about the artificial insemination bit and whether it wouldn't be better to adopt - but then, I was able to have kids, so it's hard to put yourselves into someone else's shoes. Why do we always have to be so judgmental about reproduction issues? People give other people a hard time because they choose NOT to have kids; likewise people give other people a hard time for going the AI or IVF route, or because they choose to adopt rather than reproducing themselves. Why is it anyone's business? Why would people bug Melissa E and Julie C about who the father was? Is it anyone's business? Why would she feel compelled to respond? Most people who have AI don't know who the father is - they just know something about him (he's black/white; he's so-tall; and so on) often because, in a case of infertility, they want to choose someone who could look like them or their mate, so the kid will "fit in". Few people actually get to choose the father unless they manage to make an arrangement of some kind with him (I know someone who did this, but I think it's kind of a rare occurence - there are so many things to consider, such as, does the father/sperm donor have any rights or responsibilities in the raising of the child? And never mind contracts - you can write whatever you want in a contract or legal agreement of some kind, and you can still contest it in court. What if the father wants nothing to do with the kid at the time, but consents to donating his sperm to help out his friend, but then changes his mind? And what if the mother doesn't want him anywhere near the kid? What if they start out as good friends with an arrangement and then something happens to turn them against one another? What if he wants nothing to do with the child at the time and the mother is in agreement with that but then her financial circumstances change and she needs money, and he has some? and so on... This probably isn't an issue in this case, because they've all got money. For most people though, there are far too many ethical/moral considerations to take into account. IMO being gay really isn't an issue. I know of people who are same-sex who have adopted (although, this may be more a case of one being the biological mother who was married, had a kid, got divorced, then got into a relationship with another woman and either the father has buggered off somewhere, or has died, or has no objections to the other woman adopting - so maybe it wasn't actual adoption, but more of a "legal guardian" type of deal, so I could have it wrong.) IF people are fit to care for a child, their sexual orientation shouldn't enter into the picture. A kid won't end up gay because his/her caregivers are gay any more than they'd end up straight if their parents are straight (as my gay friend with 2 gay brothers and 1 straight sister, of a regular middle-class suburban hetero married-for-eons couple, could confirm). And blah-blah-blah on in that vein... the only time it becomes anyone else's business is if there is abuse or neglect involved (which isn't the property of either gays or straights). Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:07:48 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: ZPG NJC The Rev Vince (good to hear from ya!) wrote: >Oh sure, David Crosby should be picked because he has a wonderful >voice >and is musical. What happens if the kids have no instincts >that way? "I >bred you to play and sing and you will..." This is >potentially too much >of a load for these kids, to have extra >expectations because of their test >tube breeding This is the problem with eugenics - people think if they combine this and that gene, they will create the perfect human. The Nazis tried it and it didn't work. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately! - we don't know enough about genetics to be able to predict this accurately enough. >And what will happen if the kids grow up with Crosby's affections for >drugs and guns and going to jail and obesity... these kids may grow >up to >be just like David Crosby. The worst thing is when we get >what we ask >for. I think of this as God's warped sense of humour. Anytime you think you can control or plan something really well in your life, something does happen to screw it up - something you didn't plan and in many cases couldn't possibly have planned for. It has happened to me often enough in my life that I'm trying to go with the flow now and not worry so much about planning for everything. The odds of the kids getting David's bad traits are probably better than their getting his good ones, just because of divine irony. >There are too many abandoned kids out there, and now two more than >need >be. Not everyone can be Mia Farrow and adopt groups, but >someone taking >a child without a home or family, that is love, not >spending tens of >thousands on science projects for procreation. I understand your wanting to call it a "science project" but wonder, if they weren't rich and famous and none of us knew about them (again, I have to ask though, why the hell did they feel compelled to blab this information to the entire world? I'm trying not to get bugged by the fact that they're rich and famous and try to think of them as just the girls next door, but am having a hard time of it - they rich ARE different, aren't they?) would it be a science project or just a couple of people exercising one of many choices. I have 2 biological kids of my own but would love to adopt at least one more - - however, there are so many rules governing adoption, that I'm amazed anyone can do it and it's very off-putting. For one thing, at 46, I'm considered too old by most programs. And, I work full-time, and they usually want a parent at home (well, there's my self-employed/unemployed artist husband but he's useless at parenting). I can understand that in adoption, especially adopting an older child who may have been through a lot, you'd probably want a longer-than-normal parental leave, but who can afford to stay at home any more? What really bugs me is the cases of international adoption where the kids are considered no-good bastards and scum of the earth in their native countries because they were abandoned, or their mothers weren't married, or were raped (like it was their fault) or weren't allowed to practice birth control but couldn't afford that 20th mouth to feed, or whatever - but these same countries are so fussy about letting the kids out of that country, where they would be pariah all their lives, to live in a different country where they would be cared for, loved, well-fed, educated and so on. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:25:35 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Crosby Either I have been misunderstood or my post has been hijacked... My problem is with the idea that we as a society encourage going to great lengths to reproduce. It bugs me just as much when I read about a straight couple who spend huge amounts of money on fertility treatments. Sometimes the woman gives birth to mega-tuplets and tells the world how they were blessed by god... It's ironic that this is now being pegged as a gay issue. As a gay man I have experienced the subtle and sometimes not-so-subtle pressure to have children. While I often have heard "don't you want to have children?" I never hear "Don't you want to adopt a child." Granted, it's a free country and look at the mess in China with abandoned female babies. The human population is growing by approximately 95 million people per year. If current trends continue, human numbers will sail past 10 bilion in the middle of the next hundred years. The quality of human life will certainly suffer. Is this Melissa's fault? Of course not. But I don't see how we can continue to blindly assert that everyone has the right to a Mini-Me. I don't think that health-care resources should be allocated on fertility treatments, especially with so many children with no caretakers. Bill NP -Little Green (hence the adoption rant) - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 7:55 AM Subject: Re: "don't believe the hype...(njc) > In a message dated 1/11/2000 12:19:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, > KerriLynn@aol.com writes: > > << c'mon... they probably just wanted to shut everyone up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > toooooooo funny.... >> > > I'm with Kerri on this one. My guess is this was either a joke on their part, > or someone else started a rumor...unless they named the children Stephen and > Graham... > As a huge advocate for adoption (I have two adopted kids), I still have to > agree with the other posters who say that, gay or not, it's an individual > choice as to how one wants to have a family. It's the most natural thing in > the world to want to have a biological child! Why shouldn't gays have the > same feelings about that as heteros? > > Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:21:39 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: "Soloman kept his head in all his glory"? >Jesus was a beggar - he was rich in grace >And Solomon kept his head in all his glory >It's just that some steps outside the Boho dance >have a fascination for me. > >Boho Dance > Vince said: >I can't speak for Joni but I suspect that she is comparing the > >humility/humble >life style of Jesus with the ornate riches of Solomon (both sons of >David >in >some sense, for what it is worth). > I don't know the Bible all that well but thought of it as Solomon's wisdom (keeping his head - common sense - as well as not letting his riches go to his head). I don't know much about Solomon but wasn't he the one asked to make judgement on a case of 2 women, both claiming to be the mother of a baby? Solomon thought about it for a while, then said the baby should be cut in half so they could each have half. Then one of the women said she'd rather let the other woman have the baby than have it cut in half and Solomon declared her to be the real mother since the real mother would rather give up her child than see it dead. (We're talking REAL mother, not necessarily biological, y'know?) I see it as Joni wondering aloud if being rich or poor affects whether you can be full of grace and/or wisdom. She's trying to make that choice - can I be rich and still keep my head about me? If I step outside the Boho dance (I think of it as the grungy but cool kind of jazzy beatnik existence where you can still be you, penniless but free) and I go for fortune or fame, can I still be true to myself? This is a question that comes up often with her. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:34:04 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Slouching Towards Bethlehem njc synchro! i've been singing it practically everyday, especially the "head of a maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!!!!!!" part, getting on everybody's nerves and making cats run away for shelter. wallyk > > I guess I'm not the only one to have this song (and poem) on their > mind at this time! > > John (in Sydney). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:36:08 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Only in the Movies (NJC) Only In The Movies 1. Large, loft-style apartments in New York City are well within the price range of most people-whether they are employed or not. 2. At least one of a pair of identical twins is born evil. 3. Should you decide to defuse a bomb, don't worry which wire to cut. You will always choose the right one. 4. Most laptop computers are powerful enough to override the communications system of any invading alien society. 5. It does not matter if you are heavily outnumbered in a fight involving martial arts, your enemies will wait patiently to attack you one by one by dancing around in a threatening manner until you have knocked out their predecessors. 6. When you turn out the light to go to bed, everything in your bedroom will still be clearly visible, just slightly bluish. 7. If you are blonde and pretty, it is possible to become a world expert on nuclear fission at the age of 22. 8. Honest and hard working policemen are traditionally gunned down three days before their retirement. 9. Rather than wasting bullets, megalomaniacs prefer to kill their arch-enemies using complicated machinery involving fuses, pulley systems, deadly gasses, lasers, and man-eating sharks, which will allow their captives at least 20 minutes to escape. 10.During all police investigations, it will be necessary to visit a strip club at least once. 11.All beds have special L-shaped cover sheets that reach up to the armpit level on a woman but only to waist level on the man lying beside her. 12.All grocery shopping bags contain at least one stick of French bread. 13.It's easy for anyone to land a plane providing there is someone in the control tower to talk you down. 14.Once applied, lipstick will never rub off-even while scuba diving. 15.You will not survive in any war if you show someone a picture of your sweet heart back home. 16.Should you wish to pass yourself off as a German or Russian officer, it will not be necessary to speak the language. A German or Russian accent will do. (It used to be an English accent for the German). 17.The Eiffel Tower can be seen from any window in Paris. 18.A man will show no pain while taking the most ferocious beating but will wince when a woman tries to clean his wounds. 19.If a large pane of glass is visible, someone will be thrown through it before long. 20.If staying in a haunted house, women should investigate any strange noises in their most revealing underwear. 21.Word processors never display a cursor onscreen but will always say: Enter Password Now. 22.Even when driving down a perfectly straight road, it is necessary to turn the steering wheel vigorously from left to right every few moments. 23.All bombs are fitted with electronic timing devices with large red readouts so you know exactly when they're going to go off. 24.A detective can only solve a case once he has been suspended from duty. 25.If you decide to start dancing in the street, everyone you meet will know all the steps. 26.Police departments give their officers personality tests to make sure they are deliberately assigned a partner who is their total opposite. 27.When they are alone, all foreign military officers prefer to speak to each other in English. 28.If you are a spy wearing a tux you will: a) have a big gun battle at a party, b) not get dirty doing it, and c) get lucky with the prettiest woman attending the affair, even though she's on the "other side." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:39:50 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: ZPG NJC Welcome back, Catherine! I wasn't going to comment on the adoption thing further, but you raised an interesting point. I wanted to adopt a child a few years back, too, but I was shot down by the state of Pennsylvania. I'm a single (divorced) male in my 40s. It didn't matter that I was willing to take ANY child of any age, race, or gender. It didn't matter that I am already raising a daughter successfully. It didn't matter that I have a good job, etc. It only mattered that I was a single male. The answer was no, and I didn't have enough money to change the situation. Sad, eh? Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:59:21 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Slouching Towards Bethlehem njc Wally caterwauls: >synchro! i've been singing it practically everyday, especially the "head of >a maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!!!!!!" part, getting on everybody's nerves and >making cats run away for shelter. Holy jeez, if this is ALL you're singing, I'm not surprised ;D Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:03:00 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Only in the Movies (NJC) LOL - that is so true and one of the reasons I really HATE most movies (and TV shows for that matter.) Did anyone happen to catch the new TV show "Malcolm in the Middle" the other night? The messy house, the kids always fighting - now that's reality (but my mum never answered the door topless - and neither do I!) If the first show is any indicator, I may actually start watching TV again - I was killing myself laughing. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:06:08 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: JONI IN NEW ORLEANS!!!!!!! NJC In a message dated 1/11/00 9:33:33 AM US Central Standard Time, Louis.Lynch@wonderware.com writes: << We'll behave ourselves, we promise! >> Obviously Michael, you KNOW that Harper Lou is speaking only for himself here! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:59:53 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Grammy (Jazz Vocal) - NJC From: "Catherine McKay" Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:51:07 GMT Joseph asks, wistfully: >Since Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera were both >nominated, do you think they will can.cel each other out? Please, >please. Akk! I hope so! Is this about how many records you sell, or is it about talent? I tend to believe it's the former which means awards shows of any kind are just a big yawn. BTW, overheard in the local record store, where they were playing Britney: "Britney Spears, she's like DEAD, man! No one wants her anymore! Everyone wants to hear S-Club-7!" (this said by the people on cash as my 12-yr old was stepping up to the cash to spend her Christmas money on the S-Club-7 CD. All 3 record stores in this mall had been sold out when we went a few days before. The guy at the store said these had been sitting on the shelf untouched for about 5 weeks and suddenly EVERYONE wanted it and they weren't prepared for it!) S-Club-7 is like taking the boy groups and the girlgroups and putting them together. They've got everything - boys and girls, different racial backgrounds, English accents and catchy pop music - what 12-yr old could ask for anything more? Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:15:20 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Crosby NJC In a message dated 1/11/00 10:25:00 AM US Central Standard Time, foa@igc.org writes: << My problem is with the idea that we as a society encourage going to great lengths to reproduce. >> While I agree with your thoughts regarding adoption, Bill, I just have to add that witnessing the birth of my child, my own flesh & blood, is probably the greatest miracle and proof of God in this world that I have ever seen. Being a father has literally taught me what real sacrificial love is. That would be the same were my son adopted, but perhaps it will help you understand why we as a society go to great lengths to reproduce... Bob NP: Little Feat, "Don't Bogart That Joint" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:28:14 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Crosby and world overpopulation-NJC!!! Hi Steve-the point I was making is that we have enough to adequettly feed and house everyone. NOT that we are not harming our planet. That is obvious. Destroying our environment and the gap between the haves and the have nots is part of the same problem. We can still provide for those of us here and care for the environment too. We need to change the way we do things. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:40:23 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: CrosbyNJC > > > It's ironic that this is now being pegged as a gay issue. I don't think that has happened. Your point was valid and nothing to do with them being gay. others made that an isssue when responding.I was not succinct enough when i responded about the population problem. I was trying to point out that if it wasn't for the appalling way our earth is exploited and mistreated and the equally appalling way people don't care enough about other people, we would not have the situation we have now where part of the world grows fat and rich whilst most of it lives very poorly. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:43:42 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: ZPG NJC > It only mattered that I was a > single male. Yet another example of appalling prejudice and stereotype. From what i know, they would have considered you a high risk for being a child abuser. wrong and so sad. And of course it is the child who pays yet again by being denied a good home with a good carer. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:52:54 -0800 From: howard Subject: JM in NOLA I would check your dates on the appearance of JM in NOLA. I am going to the NATPE convention and the last day of the convention is the 27th of Jan. No one will be there on the 28th, just exhibitors tearing down their booths. In any case, if she is performing, I will be there for the convention and I want to see her, so reserve for two, please. Howard M. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 17:50:54 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: ZPG NJC >I wanted to adopt a child a few years back, too, but I was shot down >by >the state of Pennsylvania. I'm a single (divorced) male in my >40s. > >It didn't matter that I was willing to take ANY child of any age, >race, or >gender. It didn't matter that I am already raising a >daughter >successfully. >It didn't matter that I have a good job, etc. It only mattered that >I was >a single male. The answer was no, and I didn't have enough >money to >change the situation. > >Sad, eh? Yeah, it is very sad. They want everyone to have a stay-at-home mother and a working father, a chicken in every pot, a house with a yard within walking distance of good schools and 2 cats in the yard. Just like in real life (hee-hee.) You're a single male - there has to be something wrong with you. You're probably a pedophile or something. 'Scuse my sarcasm, but that's what it seems to boil down to - everyone who isn't a heterosexual, legally married male-and-female couple is suspect, never mind that most of the cases of major child abuse you read about involve just that kind of scenario. It all boils down to money - you actually can afford to raise a child, but you can't afford the costs of attempting to adopt one. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:14:44 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Crosby NJC Bill said: ><< My problem is with the idea that we as a society encourage going > to great lengths to reproduce. >> And Bob replied: >While I agree with your thoughts regarding adoption, Bill, I just >have to >add that witnessing the birth of my child, my own flesh & >blood, is >probably the greatest miracle and proof of God in this >world that I have >ever seen. Every now and then, I look at my kids, and I think, wow, they started out as a couple of little cells and they came out of my body, and now they're these real people with minds of their own (dammit!) but I've never thought of them as "my flesh and blood" (yech, I just find that a yucky expression - it reminds me of meat!) I know what you're saying about the miracle of birth. When you've carried them around in your belly for 9-1/2 months, it's really a treat to actually get to meet them at last and see what they really look like and check to make sure the fingers and toes are all there, in the right place and oh wow, look at all the hair on that head, and jeez, those finger nails need clipping already - how do you clip such little nails anyway? help! where's the nurse? can someone do this for me? I know they're "my" kids, but I don't like to think of them as being "part of me" or another me, but it seems a lot of people DO think of their kids that way. I'm not sure if i'm explaining this properly, but they've always been their own people from the day they were born (if not before, as anyone who has ever had a kick in the bladder by her unborn child can tell you). That can sometimes be a royal pain, but what a privilege these kids are and they're so darn cute even when they're driving me nuts! >Being a father has literally taught me what real sacrificial love >is. That >would be the same were my son adopted, I bet it would - you get to grow with your kids anyway, and you grow into loving them, so whether they were yours biologically or not, I don't think it would be any different. I mean, it would be different, but it wouldn't be different. The experience would be different, but the love would continue to grow. >but perhaps it will help you >understand why we as a society go to great lengths to reproduce... And here I thought it was just a hormone thing! Not to reduce it to total silliness, and it's easy for me to say because I didn't have a problem conceiving children, so I don't want to put down those who do and who really, really want to have kids of their own. But I don't understand people who think that they absolutely *must* reproduce, and so must everyone else. OK, so part of it is hormonal, and all animals (all living creatures) want to reproduce and keep their species going (even the ugly ones like bugs and stuff!), but I'm not sure if a cat or a dog would be that worried about her biological clock ticking towards doomsday, and I don't think the other animals would be on her case about it either, not to the point where they would go to great lengths to ensure pregnancy no matter what it took. (And they don't use birth control either - they just do what nature tells them to do and don't think about it, lucky them. (What is my point anyway?) The species will go on, and you are more than your job, more than your kids. If you want to be remembered after you die, you don't need to have kids. Make friends. Write a book or a song. Create a sculpture or a garden. Be the class clown. Leave an endowment or build a hospital wing if you've got that kind of money. There are so many things to do. Having kids (or not) is just one. But don't ever fool yourself into thinking you can make them into the you-that-could-have-been. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:16:28 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Another Joni Tribute? I have not heard it yet, but Chicago s/ser Kristin Lems has a new CD out called "Oh Mama - plus!", and this is her description of one of the tracks: "The Three Madonnas - Judy and Joni and Joan - guess who this is a tribute to?" ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ (Website under construction!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 12:14:25 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Crosby and world overpopulation-NJC!!! At 05:28 PM 1/11/00 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Steve-the point I was making is that we have enough to adequettly feed >and house everyone. NOT that we are not harming our planet. That is >obvious. Destroying our environment and the gap between the haves and the >have nots is part of the same problem. We can still provide for those of us >here and care for the environment too. We need to change the way we do >things. >bw >colin > Well, I stand corrected-I misread between the lines that you viewed everything as peachy, to which I had to comment on. I still have doubts whether there truly is enough for all- there are too many parts of the equation left out-and it would take more than a few posts to explain it all. Yes, we are doing some things to help others and the planet- but is it enough??? Doubtful. This has to become part of the planetary consciousness, no just a handful of individuals. I've lost hope. What a shame... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:32:18 EST From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: reproducing NJC In a message dated 1/11/2000 11:19:24 AM Central Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << << My problem is with the idea that we as a society encourage going to great lengths to reproduce. >> >> People with money go to great lengths to reproduce; people without money are encouraged not to reproduce. Anyone ever seen the movie "Gattaca"? Or read the book "Brave New World"? Seems to me that it won't be long before engineered babies will be better than the rest of us--as a matter of fact, there could potentially be a movement to "breed out" lesbianism, -one thing that facilitates the need to make "little Melissa's" in this fashion. Someone mentioned the fact that having a child is evidence of God. When men start intervening with an area of divine providence, there is no limit to the corruption that ensues. Yes, it's unfair that some couples are infertile. Yes, it's unfair that sexual preference excludes natural childbirth. But, things like this shouldn't be allowed to happen. At the risk of being attacked by everyone on this list, I don't think it's too far removed from engineering blue-eyed children with blond hair who are pre-disposed to Christianity or a WASPish philosophy. Hitler would have had a field day with this kind of technology. In the end, I think everyone should have the right to live happily. However, death and birth are things best left to God, not to man. Right or wrong, just or unjust. It's just not our place. There's my opinion and we all know about opinions. I won't take any contrary beliefs to heart. - -chele NP: Tracy Chapman, revolution ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 13:57:53 -0500 From: Kathleen Kajioka Subject: Re: Amour, mama, not cheap display! Mark or Travis wrote: > Kathleen wrote: > I would think Joni > > picked it up from 'France proper'. > > Perhaps from hearing to Edith Piaf on the radio. > > Mark in Seattle Perhaps, but I think it's safe to assume she's spent some time in France: "Sitting in a park in Paris France..." (California). Kathleen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 11:59:34 -0700 From: Allison Fernley Subject: Re: Crosby Sperm - NJC Just to let you know. The Utah Legislature currently has before it proposals to keep gay couples from adopting children. This got started when they decided to make it illegal for gay couples to adopt any children through state agencies. Then our bigoted, pea-brained officials decided it would be a good idea to really go for it and make sure it was illegal for gay couples to adopt in any way in this state. The ACLU is preparing a case against the statute. The governor of Vermont may believe that gay people should have all the rights and privileges of str8 Americans, but elsewhere this is hardly the case. So, here here to Colin's thoughtful replies. I'm afraid I found Harper Lou's statements to contain the kind of hidden homophobia that makes decent people willing to support wrongheaded policies such as these. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #17 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?