From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #12 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, January 8 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 012 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: ????? njc [Vince Lavieri ] Re: FW: Today's Thought... - NJC ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: FW: Today's Thought... njc ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: New Case of You ["Kakki" ] Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? ["Mark or Travis" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 18:32:19 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: ????? njc catheri (Catherine in Toronto) is on vacation and will be back, probably next week. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 12:40:16 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: FW: Today's Thought... - NJC Colin wrote: >http://www.landoverbaptist.org/home/mainx.html >or maybe even this one-tho I couldn't tell if this was a joke or not. Thanks Colin, for the biggest laugh I've had in a while! If you haven't checked out this site, do it now! Very funny, and very tongue-in-cheek (a warning: as the headlines below attest, some of it is not in very good taste), but still hilarious! 10 Year Old Sissy Caught Playing With Dolls! Effeminate Man Asked To Leave 11am Service. Satanist, Ricky Martin: "I Don't Give a Damn If My Music Gets Girls Pregnant." Tampons. Satan's Little Cotton Fingers! Pokémon? Poké Yourself, Satan! Helen _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:35:25 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: FW: Today's Thought... njc colin shared: << http://www.landoverbaptist.org/home/mainx.html .... I couldn't tell if this was a joke or not. >> This is the funniest damn thing I've ever seen! Thanx catman!!! E.T. NP: Slouching Towards Bethlehem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:45:57 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: New Case of You Bob wrote: > Obviously, I hope so too...I don't think the warmth and texture and nuance of > the vocal is evidenced in the recording, and it may be the "newness" of the > recording, BUT I remember being blown away by "BSN" in Atlanta, "Stormy > Weather", and "Summertime", and it didn't happen with "Case of You". But I'm > keeping my mind (and ears) open...as for "Comes Love", I've heard that TOO > much on all the live stuff, so I'm anxious to hear the rest. It's probably not fair for me to be discussing the new song before most have heard it, but it truly affected me more than any other song on the new album. I rarely, if ever, am brought to tears by a song, but this one just completely overtook me. Even thinking about it I get a chill. It may be in part because I was such a young impressionable girl madly in love when I heard the first one and so it is etched deeply in me to begin with. Now hearing Joni's reprise of it as an "old girl" after all the life lived and years that have come to past, it is hauntingly beautiful and poignant, and also somehow symbolizes the enduring hope and faith of a "survivor" to me. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:44:02 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? > > Joni's imagery is one of textures, a mix of colors, a splendid blend of > highbrow art and everyday life, of the loftiest of thoughts and the lowliest > of urges. She writes what life is about, from her perspective. And like a > true artist, she has an honest gaze. She sees people for what we are -- > sometimes the most magnificent of creatures, and other times silly creatures > amused by the basest things. ......snip..... > Dan, you are right: the word "prick" does show a lack of grace. But, > everyone I've ever loved has shown a lack of grace at one time or another. God I wish I'd written this! Beautifully expressed, Lou. Thank you for saying it so well. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 02:06:49 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: London Jonifest 2000. The whole story Hello Raffaele, I'm glad to hear you're feeling better already....it was such a shame you weren't able to make it. I was really looking forward to meeting you, and to thank you in person for all the work you put into the Grace Of My Heart package you so kindly sent me just before Christmas. I know there will be another time, we will make sure of that between all of us....(would anyone be interested in having a get-together at my place in the country sometime?). Speaking of the London Jonifest, I'd like to write up a piece on it for my website. Does anyone have objections to that, and would I possibly be able to use some of the pics when they are done? Thought it might make an interesting section for both JMDL-ers (UK and US), plus unsuspecting folks not aware of such a thriving, caring and active community of people. We could get some new members.... ;-) I am still working on my webpages, and will add some links (including the jonimitchell.com and jmdl.com sites) eventually. For those of you interested in such things, my film review pages are the ones most often updated at the moment. I've just watched Message In A Bottle tonight, and my thoughts on that (plus a few others such as Shakespeare In Love and The Matrix) are now up at the Recommended section : http://freespace.virgin.net/jason.maloney/Recommended.html I'll scan the DVD cover artwork for MIAB over the weekend, and add it to the review :-) Jason. Raffaele Malanga wrote: > Jamie, Marian, Martin, Azeem, Chris, Jason, Rob et al > > Thank you so much for your fantastic reports of the Joni fest night. I > already banged my head on the wall a few times now for my stupid flu that > kept me from being with you (that very night the *real* Millennium bug got > my temperature at its peak – 39!). > > Your choice of the songs was terrific and I can’t wait to listen to the > ‘basement tapes’. > I’m feeling slightly better now and I only hope that there will be a new > event soon so to meet you all. > > Also, thanks for all your get-well-soon messages. > > Raffaele in London – feeling funnily light-headed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 21:10:08 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? Dan complained: << Amazing that a l o n g post by Vince, supposedly about sensitivity, so insensitively neglects to include an NJC in the subject line. Never mind the posts with a thin Joni-veil that appear all too frequently, this one, full of things that I happen to find offensive (not to mention the prick / pussy reply, also without the NJC tag, from Eric Taylor... and the whole PRICK / phallic thread) amazes me with its egocentric, unJonicentric, lack of grace. I wonder how many folks have un.sub.scribed as a result of this type of abuse. I know I jumped to the OnlyJoni list, soon after joining, for that specific reason, but alas, I suppose there's no escape!.... >> I always add NJC to posts that contain little or no Joni content, Dan. Very occasionally I forget & Re: PRICK was an accident. I apologize. It was late & I was as upset with this thread as you, but for different reasons. I have tried to start numerous serious NJC threads recently & all I have seen for days is Re: PRICK. This is particularly irksome to me because last summer I was chewed out by many listers for posting *Joni's Pussy* (re: the controversy over Joni being naked on the cover of Mingus). I left the JMDL for months because of condescending posts & private emails reading me the riot act. I find the lack of objection to this PRICK thread from NJC subscribers curious. I only hope Joni would get a good laugh out of my limerick.... E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 21:44:31 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Virgins and their 1st Listen In a message dated 1/6/2000 10:50:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, rustytrazom@hotmail.com writes: << Hey, Gang, Great thread....I probably wouldn't ever lend a Joni out, however I would tape or buy C&S or Blue for the 1st timer. Though I am firmly entrenched in Hej, DJRD, TI or NRH as my personal, knee-quivering, drooling favorites; Court and Spark was my first. From there I sailed right into Blue and that was the one that hooked me forever...I can't believe that after all these years (24-25?) I still get an unexplainable audio cosmic mind bend when listening to Blue. So there!!!! Love, Russ _________________________________________ >> Thank you thank you Russ! I felt kinda bad because I didn't want to lend out any of my Joni. (that was how I lost my first Joni greatest hits vol.1!) But if I wanted to buy someone a Joni that did not have any it would just have to be either Blue or Ladies of the Canyon. My first experience with Joni WAS LOTC! What an amazing Album and I just went crazy over it and had to buy everything that she had out at the time (all the way up to Hejira) I found a songbook right away and started trying to play her music then bought Clouds and STAS and then Blue. When I heard Blue I knew that Joni was the most spectacular amazing performer ever. She has had such a consistant quality of great songs. They are deep and thought provoking and perfect! I knew then and there I was hooked forever! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 22:45:30 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? In a message dated 1/7/2000 4:14:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << Which brings up a question I've always had regarding the posting of JMDL content, such as upcoming get-togethers or reports of Jonifests, large, medium and small. I'm never sure whether to label these NJC or not, and am usually arbitrary about the labeling when I post on those topics. I tend to think that the only-Joni list may want to hear about these events so as to not feel left out or maybe to enjoy the posts, but this has never really been confirmed one way or another as far as I can recall. I would like to hear from the only-Jonis as to their preference on this. Kakki NP: Joni - Case of You >> I totally agree with Kakki here. To post NJC or to not post NJC that is the question...only-Jonis? Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 14:44:26 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: No Joni Content - Alternative for discussion I'd like to suggest that people consider an alternative approach to how the "Joni-lists" are currently set up; that instead of putting NJC (No Joni Content) on messages with no Joni content, JCL (Joni Content List) is put on messages for the "Joni only" lists. The reasoning behind this as follows: 1. At present there are four lists, the JONI and JONI-DIGEST lists for people who want to receive all the messages posted, the onlyJONI and onlyJONI-DIGEST for people who only want to receive messages with valid Joni content. 2. All messages posted to the lists are part of the JONI and JONI-DIGEST but only a subset of those messages are relevant for the onlyJONI and onlyJONI-DIGEST (those with valid Joni content). 3. The default for messages with no identification is currently for them to be on all lists (whether or not this should really be the case). 4. At a rough guess, around 20,000 messages a year are posted to the lists. Given the nature of the discussions on the lists, around 10,000 messages are relevant for the onlyJONI list and around 10,000 should have been marked NJC. It's easy to see that even if one time in a hundred someone forgets to put NJC on a NJC message, a hundred messages a year could end up on the onlyJONI lists. 5. Given the nature of much of the NJC threads, it is easy to see how people on the onlyJONI lists have been offended given that they have only requested to receive relevant discussion centered around Joni topics especially when they don't know the origin of those threads. Advantages of this change would be: 1. Increased harmony between members on all lists. 2. Offence will not be unintentionally given to members of the onlyJONI lists. Disadvantages of this change would be: 1. Implementation of this change would not be as simple as it would appear on the surface. 2. Some messages with Joni Content may not reach onlyJONI members. (But in this case it would be easier to email the person posting the message and tell them to put 'JCL' on it than trying to appease disgruntled onlyJONI members when the opposite has occurred). Note: I picked JCL (Joni Content List) instead of something like JCO (Joni Content Only) as the latter sounded to restrictive. Note to onlyJONI subscribers: This really is a NJC message but it would be wrong not to let you have opinions on this matter. Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 22:48:14 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: KCSN Joni Interview In a message dated 1/7/2000 4:33:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << I hope that when you hear it in higher-fidelity you will have a different feeling toward it. Her new "Case of You" is the one that really choked me up. The only way I can describe it is that it is like she is singing her whole life in this rendition. It is devastating. Also, I think no matter how mature a lady becomes, she always needs to retain a bit of her inner-ingenue. Keeps us older girls young, you know? ;-) Kakki >> I too am dying to hear the new version. that song has always struck a deep chord within my soul and to hear her doing from this point of her life should be quite inspirational! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 23:30:10 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: vacation njc We are going away Sunday for two weeks. I will read my e-mail when I return late on Sun., January 23. I wish you all the best in the meantime; you are an important and positive part of my life. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 00:15:02 -0500 (EST) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: Re: The List (NJC) Very interesting digest with much discussion on when to use the NJC tag. Many of the shortcomings and failures of the Joni-only list (despite it's idealistic intentions) that I raised last year are being reiterated. For what it is worth I would like to offer my opinion on when the NJC should be used. It should be used on EVERYTHING that does not involve Joni Mitchell herself. Kakki, YES, this goes for ALL list gatherings UNLESS she (or someone closely related to her) either shows up, calls, comments or writes, to or about any such gathering. It should also be used for discussions about the list itself as this post has been labled. Yes, certainly folks will forget from time to time. And they should be forgiven and also politely reminded (privately, not on list) to remember to use the NJC tag. I would also like to agree with whoever it was that said that it IS NOT about the content (or lack thereof) so much as the lack of time. For instance, Simon once posted a very long speech by Dr. King. More beautiful words could not have been written by any one of us...BUT...it is not what those on the Joni-only list are here for. Not because they can not or would not appreciate the content but simply because they have not the time (BTW, I'm not picking on Simon and I'm fully aware that there was no such option at the time of his posting) and if they wanted to read a speech by King they would find a website or join a list devoted to his teachings. Again this is just an example to make a point. Also, the last time Les posted the numbers it was revealed that approximately 2% of the subscribed were on the Joni-only list. So all that tagging of NJC is done by 98% for under 50 people. Kind of makes you wonder why even bother having the option? I hope Les posts the numbers again. I'd be very curios to see if the percentages have changed. Lastly, to the ~98% of you who like and/or tolerate NJC, I'd say anything goes short of libel or slander with malice. If something offends, tough toenails. Taste is relative to the individual palate. And not everyone is as prudish some vocal thought-police. BTW, I was shocked that my limerick was among, if not the cleanest of the entire lot this time! Newsflash: limericks do not have to be dirty, although many are. They must, however, have a precise metre, though, most of those posted here did not. (mine did) They also must have precise rhyming patterns, which is where mine failed, "born" not rhyming with "Spong" and "wrong", but I think a questionable rhyme is more tolerable than incorrect metre when talking limericks. There are several (clean and dirty) limerick USENET groups where content is far less scrutinized than adherence to the rules of limerick writing. And that is quite enough from me today. gdave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 04:49:55 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: njc or not njc? NJC i seldom have the njc problem because i almost never have anything to say about joni mitchell, so to play safe i label everything njc...except when i forget. i understand the only-joniers' claim, though. i would be very upset to find posts about bishop spong's dong when all i want to read is joni content. but i think that there comes a moment on the list when you want to talk about everything, especially when you've been on it for a couple of years and when you have met listers tete a tete. and you also learn to manage the volume and the delete option very well after some years. i'm always avid for joni content. hey, it's joni mitchell for god's sake, as patrick leader would put it. but i also love it when the list gets really unruly and naughty and we all write limericks or discuss semiotics or just fool around and say PUSSY. some days you wake up and play djrd, for example, and you just have to run to the computer and post some ecstatic message about otis and marlena. sometimes you're NOT in the mood for that. to tell you the truth, i've never thought paul i is a prick. he's just paul. that guy that wanted to sell us his story about joni and him at the back of his truck was a prick. but not paul. it's just that with paul or, say, with david wright or anybody else for that matter, if they want to play rough, i play rough, because i like mischief and a fair fight once in a while. but it's never personal, it's the aries rising, i guess. look, would you EVER want to party again with folks that always talk about the same old tired thing, over and over and over. i would sooner slit my wrists!!! the great thing about the jmdl is that there are two parts to the name: the jm part and the dl part. sometimes the dl part is simply too overpowering! i was talking to a friend of mine about the limericks today. i translated a couple for him. he thought it was so cool. he was even a little jealous! i suddenly remembered how it felt to be in high school. you really want to behave yourself and do all those quadratic equations -- hey, you actually like math -- but the guys at the back are so funny and maybe they're just making fart noises and you know it's stupid. but silly is funny that day and you just have to take a break and leave the math for some other time. ok. i totally lost the thread of what i was saying. i guess that what i mean is like, man, lighten up, label appropriately and don't feel guilty if you feel like getting the giggles. wallyk ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #12 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?