From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #11 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, January 7 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 011 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Diana Krall & Larry Klein GOSSIP ["Kakki" ] Diana Krall & Larry Klein GOSSIP [mann@chicagonet.net] Re: Diana Krall & Larry Klein GOSSIP ["Kakki" ] La Merm (NJC) [Robert Holliston ] Re: very NJC, but...:-) [catman ] Re: PRICK [catman ] Re: Disco, 2nd try [catman ] Re: CD Recorders (NJC and long) [catman ] Ode to Joni [catman ] RE: just ONE loaner! [Jamie Zubairi ] RE: LondonFest [Jamie Zubairi ] Re: Disco, 2nd try ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] FW: Today's Thought... [Jamie Zubairi ] Re: Laptops versus Desktops / DVD (NJC) [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: The Merm (NJC) ["Ross, Les" ] Re: The Merm (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: FW: Today's Thought... [catman ] Re: The Merm (NJC) [catman ] Re: FW: Today's Thought... [catman ] Re: Diana Krall & Larry Klein GOSSIP [Don Rowe ] New York City Mini gathering (NJC) [AsharaJM@aol.com] Limerick (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] sensitivity to the insensitve? [Bounced Message ] musings on genitalia words [njc] ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Limerick (NJC) [catman ] RE: Limerick (NJC) [Louis Lynch ] JM Companion [Linda Worster ] Re: Limerick (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Calling all London Jonifesters [Gertus@aol.com] Re: JM Companion [Jerry Notaro ] Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? (NJC) [Jason Maloney ] I promise ... [Don Rowe ] Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? ["Kakki" ] Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? ["Mark T. Domyancich" ] Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? ["Kakki" ] Re: new non-joni music - tori amos 'to venus and back' ["Matthew Hall" ] Joni companion in UK [Dmascall@aol.com] Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? [Bounced Message ] Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? (NJC) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: KCSN Joni Interview [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? [Vince Lavieri ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:07:20 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Diana Krall & Larry Klein GOSSIP Laura reported: > I read a one page article about Diana Krall > and when asked about her New Year's Eve > plans she replied: > > "I'll be performing on a cruise ship docked > at a volcanic island in Antarctica. I'm hoping that > my boyfriend, [actor and musician] Larry Klein, > can make the trip." Ooo, well what other Larry Klein could be it? But come to think of it Don/Larry Rowe/Klein *was* missing in action here for a few days recently. Antarctica, eh? Kind of gives a new meaning to "Come In From The Cold." ;-D Kakki NP: Diana Krall - How Deep is the Ocean, How High is the Sky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 02:20:28 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Diana Krall & Larry Klein GOSSIP Kakki, Figured after Joni, and with the Jazz appreciation she taught him ;-) it makes sense that he would be with a serious jazz singer & pianist from Canada. No spice girls for him! :-D Laura Kakki wrote: > Laura reported: > > > I read a one page article about Diana Krall > > and when asked about her New Year's Eve > > plans she replied: > > > > "I'll be performing on a cruise ship docked > > at a volcanic island in Antarctica. I'm hoping that > > my boyfriend, [actor and musician] Larry Klein, > > can make the trip." > > Ooo, well what other Larry Klein could be it? But come to think of it > Don/Larry Rowe/Klein *was* missing in action here for a few days recently. > > Antarctica, eh? Kind of gives a new meaning to "Come In From The Cold." > > ;-D > > Kakki > > NP: Diana Krall - How Deep is the Ocean, How High is the Sky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:28:00 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Diana Krall & Larry Klein GOSSIP > Figured after Joni, and with the Jazz > appreciation she taught him ;-) > it makes sense that he would be > with a serious jazz singer & pianist > from Canada. No spice girls for him! :-D Hee - I was just thinking the same thing! Listening to Diana's own "Standards" album right now, I must say I prefer Joni's. Ah well, Larry.... ;-) Kakki NP: Diana Krall - Peel Me A Grape ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 00:56:36 -0800 From: Robert Holliston Subject: La Merm (NJC) Happy New Year, y'all!!! Well, as Irving Berlin once said (and he should know), if you're writing lyrics for Ethel Merman, they'd better be good, because everyone's gonna hear 'em! Jerry, I've been searching for that disco album for years! If I send you a tape, could you? Would you?? I used to think La Merm was a bit over-the-top, too. Then I heard a recording she made c. 1934 of "You're the Top" from Anything Goes. It was wonderful: I thought, well, being one of Cole Porter's - and Irving Berlin's, and George Gershwin's - favorite singers has got to be a pretty good resume entry. Thus it was that I discovered Gypsy - music by Jule Styne, lyrics by my second idol (second only to Joni, that is), Stephen Sondheim. Ethel's Mama Rose has got to be one of the definitive portrayals in Broadway musical history. Yes, Mark, she was loud. But in these days of even plays being miked, it's nice to know that there was once a Broadway musical performer who could stand center stage (and I'll bet that's where she stood: the former Mrs. Ernest Borgnine was not a person to be trifled with) and be heard, without electronic assistance, everywhere in the house. This must be the most open-minded list on the Net! Here we (or, at least, several of us) are discussing Ethel Merman on the Joni Mitchell Discussion List. Reminds me of an old Porter song: Friendship, friendship, what a perfect blendship: When other friendships have been forgot, ours will still be hot! Or some such, ladle adle adle dig dig dig ;-) Much love to all, Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:12:42 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: very NJC, but...:-) Iremember part of an Aussie limerick, which i think i posted a ,ong time ago: Bill and Mary went to the dairy Bill pulled out his long and hairy Mary said what a beaut lets lie down and have a root ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:11:40 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: PRICK Eric Taylor wrote: > I sure hope I don't seem too pushy > But this thread just makes me feel poofy - > All this talk about prick > And no one got sick - > So why did I take heat for PUSSY? LOL!how clever and what a good point, eric! > > > E.T. - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:13:01 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Disco, 2nd try > If it means "nothing" then do > we define men who are, say, compassionate and caring, as "vaginal" or > "ovarian" I know you are being serious and I agree with your point, howver this made me laugh. It would indeed sound ridiculous-thereby making your point really well. Tho of course such men are decribed rather insultingly as wimps or worse. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:12:36 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: CD Recorders (NJC and long) > > > For writing data, it's often easiest first to gather together all the files > you want, into a directory on the hard drive, then use something like the > Adaptec software to write it all to CDR at once. You can write files one at > a time, like a floppy or Zip drive, but that needs a different kind of > software eg Adaptec DirectCD. I don't bother with this, it's too confusing. I use Adaptec Direct CD. Once the formatting of the re writable is done, it is very easy. I just click on what i want to save and either copy and paste or select 'send to CD Rom'. I have also copied programs from one cd to a write once cd. This is also easy, just like recording a music cd.I guess it is what you are used to. I have had no tuition on this and find the adaptec easy to follow. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:20:35 +0000 From: catman Subject: Ode to Joni I love a singer named Joni my friends thinks she is too moany but to me her words are just right just not for the uptight at least she is not phoney like some upstart cloney at 50 odd she still acts the part has not become an old fart her list fills me with glee even tho I sit here redin' and writin' when i am desperate for a pee - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 1980 11:50:11 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: just ONE loaner! It must be Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, if that's a bass tab! - ------------- - --8-------5-- - --6-------3-- - ------------- slide-> ..name that song. Thanks again for Tuesday. I never realised that a bassist could play chords on basses, but thinking about it now, and seeing you play, of course they would! Doh. All the best Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 1980 10:57:44 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: LondonFest I sure would love it (Jamie) if you guys would plan another gathering when the weather is warmer. Maybe in August? Around the 2nd week of August? It is always very temperate then and you never know how many Yank tourists will be in town :-) I would love that to happen! Perhaps in the same place. I guess it just depends on whether any non-English (and that means people up in Scotland, Howard;-)) would be in town. Given enough time, I guess things could be arranged. It was such a nice evening, it does, however require more than one guitarist in town for that evening. It was lucky that Marian mentioned that she will be in the UK over Christmas. I arranged it purely because she said she was coming. But, yes. We must do this in better climes. Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 07:40:07 -0500 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Re: Disco, 2nd try Yes, this would be a good time for Eric to interject with his "P" word, as that has been used to describe men in a time of vulnerablility or "unballsyness". (But you won't catch me saying it, weird, how "prick" just is more acceptable to say in public, IMO) - -Jenny catman wrote: > > > If it means "nothing" then do > > we define men who are, say, compassionate and caring, as "vaginal" or > > "ovarian" > > I know you are being serious and I agree with your point, howver this made > me laugh. It would indeed sound ridiculous-thereby making your point really > well. Tho of course such men are decribed rather insultingly as wimps or > worse. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 1980 12:45:28 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: FW: Today's Thought... I was sent this by one of my American acting friends, Cristina Anselmo. It made me laugh. Jamie Zoob - ---------- Dear Friends: I know that many of you have heard Pat Robertson, Jerry Fallwell, and others speak of the "Homosexual Agenda," but no one has ever seen a copy of it. I have finally obtained a copy directly from the Head Homosexual (she/he/it who must be obeyed). It follows below: The Homosexual Agenda 6:00 am Gym 8:00 am Breakfast (oatmeal and egg whites) 9:00 am Hair appointment 10:00 am Shopping 12:00 pm Brunch 2:00 pm 1) Assume complete control of the US Federal, State and Local Governments, as well as all other nationalgovernments; 2) recruit all straight youngsters to our debauched lifestyle; 3) destroy all healthy heterosexual marriages; 4) replace all school counselors in grades K-12 with agents of Colombian and Jamaican drug cartels; 5) establish planetary chain of "homo breeding gulags" where over- medicated imprisoned straight women are turned into artificially impregnated baby factories to produce prepubescent love slaves for our devotedly pederastic gay leadership; 6) bulldoze all houses of worship; 7) secure total control of the INTERNET and all mass media for the exclusive use of child pornographers. 2:30 pm Get Forty Winks of Beauty Rest to prevent facial wrinkles from stress of world conquest 4:00 pm Cocktails 6:00 pm Light Dinner (soup, salad, with Chardonnay) 8:00 pm Theater 11:00 pm Bed (du jour) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:58:42 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Laptops versus Desktops / DVD (NJC) In a message dated 1/6/00 6:19:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, rob.jordan@which.net writes: << but I'd be hesitant about choosing a no-name brand for a laptop, whereas I'd be pretty comfortable with el cheapo desktop. >> i am using an el cheapo laptop for two years and i would never suggest it. the plastic is pure crap. the mouse clickers are broken off, i have scotch tape all over the thing, and last year i lost everything to a corrupted registry. i just played with a gateway laptop yesterday and my god, it was beautiful. solid, tight, big screen. pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:17:06 -0000 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Re: The Merm (NJC) FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > Mike wrote: > > << Mark or Travis, you MUST TURN IN YOUR GAY CARD. NOW. :-) > >> > > Thanks for reminding me Mike. My card expired on my birthday, and I have to > go down to the license bureau to get it renewed. Don't we all when we reach 40? > > Aaargh! No! Say it isn't so! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 06:35:26 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The Merm (NJC) > You know we were just teasing, I hope. :-) > > But how can you NOT like "a broad who's got tits out to there, belting it > out to the balcony!" as Bette Midler said. :-) I like the one 'shaking her buns in front of a chorus of 35 nuns' better. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 14:52:56 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: FW: Today's Thought... For more info on this pay a visit to:http://www.bettybowers.com Jamie Zubairi wrote: > I was sent this by one of my American acting friends, Cristina Anselmo. It made me laugh. > > Jamie Zoob > > ---------- > > Dear Friends: > > I know that many of you have heard Pat Robertson, > Jerry Fallwell, and others speak of the "Homosexual > Agenda," but no one has ever seen a copy of it. I have > finally obtained a copy directly from the Head > Homosexual (she/he/it who must be obeyed). It follows > below: > > The Homosexual Agenda > > 6:00 am Gym > > 8:00 am Breakfast (oatmeal and egg whites) > > 9:00 am Hair appointment > > 10:00 am Shopping > > 12:00 pm Brunch > > 2:00 pm > > 1) Assume complete control of the US Federal, State and Local > Governments, as well as all other nationalgovernments; > > 2) recruit all straight youngsters to our debauched lifestyle; > > 3) destroy all healthy heterosexual marriages; > > 4) replace all school counselors in grades K-12 with agents of > Colombian and Jamaican drug cartels; > > 5) establish planetary chain of "homo breeding gulags" where over- > medicated imprisoned straight women are turned into > artificially impregnated baby factories to produce prepubescent > love slaves for our devotedly pederastic gay leadership; > > 6) bulldoze all houses of worship; > > 7) secure total control of the INTERNET and all mass media for the > exclusive use of child pornographers. > > 2:30 pm Get Forty Winks of Beauty Rest to prevent facial wrinkles > from stress of world conquest > > 4:00 pm Cocktails > > 6:00 pm Light Dinner (soup, salad, with Chardonnay) > > 8:00 pm Theater > > 11:00 pm Bed (du jour) - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 14:57:25 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: The Merm (NJC) > > > Don't we all when we reach 40? > > > > > > > Aaargh! No! Say it isn't so! 'raid so. Haven't you heard? No one loves a fairy at 40. - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 15:02:47 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: FW: Today's Thought... http://www.landoverbaptist.org/home/mainx.html or maybe even this one-tho I couldn't tell if this was a joke or not. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:23:24 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Diana Krall & Larry Klein GOSSIP She swore on her mother's taxidermed Walleye she wouldn't tell!! But since the genie's out of the bottle, Kakki did get one thing right, I'll certainly never hear "Come In From The Cold" quite the same way again. Joni's been very understanding of course ... she called right after midnight with reassurances that I was not to blame. It was kind of surreal, actually, lying there next to Diana, talking to Joni on the phone with the volcano spewing away out there in the frozen distance ... eat your heart out DiCaprio! Larry Klein ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:33:41 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: New York City Mini gathering (NJC) Just wanted to say what a great time I had with our small JMDL gathering in NYC! Patrick and Kenny made our way over to Judy's Chelsea to see David Lahm (who, yes, is indeed humble) play. He was wonderful, and we had a great time singing along. (Or trying to sing along, as the case may be. I am notorius for only knowing the "first verse" to almost every Broadway tune there is!) We were pleasantly surprised to meet David's lovely wife, Judy, who blessed us with her beautiful voice. It was a really nice evening. The next night, Patrick and I saw my friend, Lorraine Hunt Lieberson make her debut at the Met! Wow! What an exciting night! Thanks for all the London Jonifest reports. I love living vicariously through the JMDL! For anyone that believes in the power of prayer, and would like to take a moment to think of my mom on Monday during her surgery, it would be greatly appreciated. Take care all. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:48:35 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Limerick (NJC) There was a curmudgeon in SoCal A lurker, he, not very vocal. "But one day," said he "All this damned NJC Could very well make me go postal!" Smiles implied... ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ (Website under construction!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 10:21:57 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: sensitivity to the insensitve? From: Kleronomos@aol.com Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:52:09 EST Amazing that a l o n g post by Vince, supposedly about sensitivity, so insensitively neglects to include an NJC in the subject line. Never mind the posts with a thin Joni-veil that appear all too frequently, this one, full of things that I happen to find offensive (not to mention the prick / pussy reply, also without the NJC tag, from Eric Taylor... and the whole PRICK / phallic thread) amazes me with its egocentric, unJonicentric, lack of grace. I wonder how many folks have un.sub.scribed as a result of this type of abuse. I know I jumped to the OnlyJoni list, soon after joining, for that specific reason, but alas, I suppose there's no escape! As much as I've enjoyed the discussions, I'm teetering again. I suppose most people wouldn't bother to say anything about it....they just unsubscribe, and we miss out on their fellowship without ever knowing what they had to add to the conversation. Why risk PERSONAL abuse after suffering it anonymously? I like it so much here, I'm willing to risk taking the heat, but then again, maybe I really don't belong... maybe my "insensitivity" to the insensitive will make me an outcast. Joni's art pulls the heartstrings of a diverse group of individuals. I think it would be fair to say that the OnlyJoni list is supposed to be for people who desire to celebrate our unity on the art of Joni Mitchell. Why else would we have an OnlyJoni list? There's plenty of room for diversity within that unity, even, I suppose, for boorish comments, and (I'm hoping) even for my individuality. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:30:58 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: musings on genitalia words [njc] isn't it ironic, though, that a "prick" or a "cunt" should be a jerk or a stupid, overbearing person whereas "ballsy" has such a positive connotation? apparently, although other words related to genitalia are used to describe people, testicles are the real thing. however, in my variety of spanish, "boludo/a" or "pelotudo/a" ["having big testicles"], means "utterly idiotic" and can be used as an insult about BOTH men and women! "conchudo/a", meaning having a large vulva, is used to refer to what you would call a "son of a bitch" or a "bitch", again both men and women. so here any reference to large genitalia at all has a negative connotation. another interesting fact: a very common expletive in argentina is "andate a la concha de tu hermana/madre/abuela!" which literally translates into "go to your sister's/mother's/grandmother's cunt!". it is SO meaningless yet so insulting here. even the abbreviated forms "la concha de tu hermana/madre/abuela!" ["you sister's/mother's/grandmother's cunt!"] can cause a very serious incident. in these expressions, "cunt" is either a place you can be sent to or a part of the body whose only mention implies an attack to one's mother's/sister's/grandmother's memory or image. now, the expressions "your brother's dick!" or "go to your grandfather's dick!", which should be expected as the male equivalents, sound totally absurd and meaningless. they just don't exist, and if you tried to insult someone by using them, you would get only a blank look. so, whereas big balls are good in english and wrong in spanish, female genitalia words have a negative connotation in both languages [to the point of absurdity in some spanish expressions]. all in all, expletives seem to be devoid of meaning although they serve their communicative function so well. maybe they are the best examples of fossilized expressions you can find in any language. one of the most poignant ways to insult people in rome is to say simply "your dead folks!" hello? wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:10:27 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: ????? njc i'm also wondering about cateri from toronto who was a pretty regular poster,,,just gone...just like that...for no particular reason. pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:17:02 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: sensitivity to the insensitve? Oh no, JMDL, we've sunken to limericks and dirty words! You know, Dan, I understand your comments, and it was probably an oversight that the NJC tag was omitted from the posts about certain anatomical parts. Personally, I'm not much one for that kind of humor either. And I have a rule that I don't talk about genitals with anybody except the person I happen to be sharing them with. However, I think we can justify the discussion's presence on the Joni list, and even excuse it for being slightly offensive. You know how we linked musicians on the century poll to Joni? Well, for that same reason, I don't think the few brazen limericks are so far removed from any discussion on Joni. One of the most impressive things to me about Joni, especially early in her career, was that she defied the pop music industry's quest for airplay. In "Woman of Heart and Mind," she sings the phrase "fuck your strangers..." even though those lyrics would doom that beautiful song from ever being played on most radio stations. Even in the liberal 00's that word is bleeped out on most stations. When I first heard her sing "I pissed a tequila anaconda the full length of the parking lot," I howled in laughter. That phrase struck home -- it had such imagery that no other "proper" word would have conveyed. Joni is a true artist, one with the ability to use a profane word, yet creating a work that is sublime. Few artists can do that. Most modern pop songs use naughty words for shock value, or to express naughty ideas, or because naughty words comprise the majority of their writers' limited vocabularies. To me, Joni uses them with a precision that's unmatched in the songwriting business. There's a standard in my Irish family: don't use a nasty word when there's a better word you can use. However, I've learned that it also means, if there's no better word for it, then sometimes you have to call a shithead a shithead. Joni's imagery is one of textures, a mix of colors, a splendid blend of highbrow art and everyday life, of the loftiest of thoughts and the lowliest of urges. She writes what life is about, from her perspective. And like a true artist, she has an honest gaze. She sees people for what we are -- sometimes the most magnificent of creatures, and other times silly creatures amused by the basest things. So, to me, it seems right that a discussion list of her devotees would contain a few limericks or the word "ballsy" now and again. Joni's candor is one of the things that makes me able to listen to her lyrics again and again. Other writers may interest me, but Joni has never failed to amaze me. Anyone can keep it clean and play by the rules to stay in the game. And likewise, anyone can use gratuitous filth to grab attention. But the ability to be genuinely indiscrete is the mark of a true artist. Dan, you are right: the word "prick" does show a lack of grace. But, everyone I've ever loved has shown a lack of grace at one time or another. Sorry, I just felt like standing on the soapbox for a while. Must be an emotional issue resulting from deeprooted childhood trauma or something... Excuse me, now, while I retire to the powder room... Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 18:19:58 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: ????? njc Robert has not gone, he is still here. there was a mail from him today. Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > i'm also wondering about cateri from toronto who was a pretty regular > poster,,,just gone...just like that...for no particular reason. pat - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 18:35:13 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Limerick (NJC) Steve Dulson wrote: > There was a curmudgeon in SoCal > A lurker, he, not very vocal. > "But one day," said he > "All this damned NJC > Could very well make me go postal!" then one fine day les did say he made another list to save you getting pissed to free you from the NJC you can now go only JC > > > Smiles implied... > > ######################################################### > Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com > "The Tinker's Own" > http://www.tinkersown.com > "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" > http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ > "The Living Tradition Concert Series" > http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ > (Website under construction!) - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:38:05 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Limerick (NJC) Touché! Harper Lou - -----Original Message----- From: catman [mailto:catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 1:35 PM To: Steve Dulson Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Limerick (NJC) Steve Dulson wrote: > There was a curmudgeon in SoCal > A lurker, he, not very vocal. > "But one day," said he > "All this damned NJC > Could very well make me go postal!" then one fine day les did say he made another list to save you getting pissed to free you from the NJC you can now go only JC > > > Smiles implied... > > ######################################################### > Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com > "The Tinker's Own" > http://www.tinkersown.com > "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" > http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ > "The Living Tradition Concert Series" > http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ > (Website under construction!) - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 13:40:44 -0500 From: Linda Worster Subject: JM Companion Hello Stacey- I received my copy of The JM Companion a couple of days ago. (Thanks Laura for the coupon!!!) I am very much enjoying it!!! Wonderful work- thanks! Linda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 13:57:56 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Limerick (NJC) catman wrote: > Steve Dulson wrote: > > > There was a curmudgeon in SoCal > > A lurker, he, not very vocal. > > "But one day," said he > > "All this damned NJC > > Could very well make me go postal!" > > then one fine day > les did say > he made another list > to save you getting pissed > to free you from the NJC > you can now go only JC I thinks Steve's point (valid) is that the JC only works only if the NJC messages are properly labeled. Maybe we have gotten a little careless lately, especially with all this genitalia around. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:58:52 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Calling all London Jonifesters Hi, It really was great to meet you all on Tuesday - I've been on a high ever since! Just thought I would let you know that Kakki's tape of the KCSN interview finally arrived today. If anyone would like a copy please e-mail me with your address and I'll get it out to you as soon as I can. As you may know, the sound quality is not the best but the program includes 2 tracks from the new album - A Case of You and Comes Love and gives a great insight into Joni's art techniques. Also, if anyone knows how I can get a copy to Marian while she's off-line perhaps they could let me know. All for now, Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 14:07:07 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: JM Companion Linda Worster wrote: > Hello Stacey- > I received my copy of The JM Companion a couple of days ago. > (Thanks Laura for the coupon!!!) > I am very much enjoying it!!! Wonderful work- thanks! Hate to do a "me too" but I just have to. An excellent resource and well worth $12.00. I've already sent out 2 as birthday gifts. Stacy is to be congratulated for such a fine product. Jerry np: Woodstock: Sydney Australia 1983 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 20:20:38 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? (NJC) Very well said, Lou. You placed the whole matter of such tones of discussions on a Joni list like this in an extremely intelligent and even-handed context. I agree that the omission of the NJC tag in one or two of the contributions to the light-hearted thread were merely oversights. Then again, it begs the question : just how careful and sensitive do we have to remember to be at all times, with a membership of some 1500 or so? The odd slip and forgetting to tag non-JC content is surely excusable, yet if an offesive tone or an unlabelled off-topic thread persists, then of course there is reason to be aggrieved. In the case of this current situation, I don't think any offence has been intended, although we have been sailing very close to the wind with much of the content. One never likes to see a fellow lister feel deeply offended or upset by something written on the JMDL, and I'm sure it's just a case of getting a bit carried away in the aftermath of the huge positive vibes created by the London Jonifest (I do believe it was Chris who initiated the limerick thread, and he is the last person you could say was egocentric, and lacking in grace). As for the "Prick" thread, that stemmed from the nit-pickings over the exact date of the new millennium, and was again in high spirits and with plenty of tongue-in-cheek humour. Obviously, nobody could be sure that it wouldn't cause its own share of insult and offence either. If Dan is referring to Vince's hilarious Ten commandments of Sex and Religion on the JMDL post, then I'm a little baffled, as it was clearly marked NJC. Perhaps there is another post I've missed. Yes, E.T.s e-mail omitted the NJC, but I think that's the only one. I recall the thread from last summer about "Joni's P____" (the actual word left out to avoid any further offence), originating from a query about the cover artwork of DJRD, which also caused a fair degree of discomfort among many people. Like this current thread, it was in high spirits and with a large helping of himour attached, yet I can understand how both may been deemed to have unfortunate subject headings. I would second everything Harper Lou has said about Joni and wilful indiscretion. On a sidenote, it would be interesting to know how many subscribers there are to the Joni list, and how many to the Joni-only one. Of course, there may be a slight overlap (though maybe not anymore), but it might help those of us who like our "free-for-all" discussions (myself included) to know how many people we may be unintentionally offending when we sometimes forget the NJC tags. All this reminds me of a conversation I had with a JMDL-er recently about the general tone and quality of the list. Compared to maybe 99% of other mailing-lists or discusssion groups, the JMDL has a remarkably high quotient of dignity, compassion and intelligence. Abusive, irrational, monosyllabic rantings and accusations - pretty much the bread and butter of most mialing lists - are always absent from the JMDL, and probably always will be. I've been (or still am) on over a dozen other music/film e-mail lists, and believe me, they fall a very very long way short of even the *worst* that this list has ever been. So, please stay with us Dan. Let's all try and maintain our high standards and do our best to avoid any slips, although I would hope that the occasional and unintentional lapse will be allowed. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 20:21:22 -0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: RE: Calling all London Jonifesters On Friday, January 07, 2000 6:59 PM, Gertus@aol.com [SMTP:Gertus@aol.com] wrote: > Also, if anyone knows how I can get a copy to Marian while she's off-line > perhaps they could let me know. I seem to recall that she's returning home tomorrow (the 8th) so you can probably get away with waiting for her reappearance on here. Regards, - --Chris Chris Marshall Secure Systems Integration Ltd Web: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 7970 459 553 Fax: +44 (0) 1954 201 741 E-mail: chris@secure-si.co.uk PGP key: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/chris/pubkey.txt Fingerprint: 49F7 5132 C599 6ADC 47E7 844E A612 3F53 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 15:41:10 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? (NJC) Hello, I think that for the past few weeks there has been an unusually large number of unlabeled NJC posts. I counted six such NJC posts so far today (plus at least that many with unlabeled posts with JMDL content, but no Joni content per se). Not that I haven't ever been guilty of this, but please notice: 1) if you are replying to an NJC post which forgot the NJC label; 2) if you are replying to a JC post but not to the JC part of the post. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:59:22 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: RE: sensitivity to the insensitve? Dan beat me to the punch. I wanted to say this a couple of days ago: PLEASE REMEMBER TO USE NJC!! Thanks! Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:11:28 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: I promise ... Henceforth, I promise to always use the NJC tag on all my NJC posts ... but you see, I want the people who don't want to read NJC to know that I'm always going to use NJC, but if I put NJC on this message, then the people who need to know I won't be sending them NJC wouldn't get this message -- even though it is, in fact, NJC. See? ;-) Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:11:54 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? David wrote: > I think that for the past few weeks there has been an unusually > large number of unlabeled NJC posts. I counted six such NJC posts so far > today (plus at least that many with unlabeled posts with JMDL content, but > no Joni content per se Which brings up a question I've always had regarding the posting of JMDL content, such as upcoming get-togethers or reports of Jonifests, large, medium and small. I'm never sure whether to label these NJC or not, and am usually arbitrary about the labeling when I post on those topics. I tend to think that the only-Joni list may want to hear about these events so as to not feel left out or maybe to enjoy the posts, but this has never really been confirmed one way or another as far as I can recall. I would like to hear from the only-Jonis as to their preference on this. Kakki NP: Joni - Case of You ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:29:46 -0600 From: "Mark T. Domyancich" Subject: Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? Being one of the onlyJoni's I really want to hear about the the fests, even those ones I can't get to. Other stuff, like those stupid Plugs Of The Weeks I can definitely do without. NP-Nick Drake-Strange Meeting II At 1:11 PM -0800 1/7/00, Kakki wrote: >Which brings up a question I've always had regarding the posting of JMDL >content, such as upcoming get-togethers or reports of Jonifests, large, >medium and small. I'm never sure whether to label these NJC or not, and am >usually arbitrary about the labeling when I post on those topics. I tend to >think that the only-Joni list may want to hear about these events so as to >not feel left out or maybe to enjoy the posts, but this has never really >been confirmed one way or another as far as I can recall. I would like to >hear from the only-Jonis as to their preference on this. Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:30:06 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: KCSN Joni Interview John, Bob and Jacky, I'm glad you are enjoying the interview and thank you and all the other "branches" for wearing out your tape decks for the cause! Bob wrote: > 1. How sad that Joni can't listen to music while she paints at night because she has to listen for stalkers on her roof... She must still really be scared from past bad experiences. But I was thinking, gee, why not put some sharp sticks up on the roof or something ;-) Also, the Bel Air Patrol is a crack private security operation and I would hope their presence would afford her some sense of comfort. Even though I've been around Bel Air all my life, I still get lost sometimes at night there because it is so dark and wooded with confusing, meandering roads. The patrol has a beautiful little Spanish-style headquarters building where you can stop and get a map and directions and a cup of gourmet coffee if you are lost. While they are very friendly and give you a map and all, you can also be sure they are remotely monitoring your wanderings through the realm during your visit, too ;-) > 2. While the new "Case of You" is gorgeous, Joni's >maturer voice doesn't fit it as well as her younger voice. I >think this is one of her "ingenue roles" she's spoke of as >reason for not doing some of her earlier work in concert. I hope that when you hear it in higher-fidelity you will have a different feeling toward it. Her new "Case of You" is the one that really choked me up. The only way I can describe it is that it is like she is singing her whole life in this rendition. It is devastating. Also, I think no matter how mature a lady becomes, she always needs to retain a bit of her inner-ingenue. Keeps us older girls young, you know? ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 13:34:40 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? Sue wrote: > Please continue to post the Jonifest info as JC! Absolutely!! I think > anything that has to do with the fellowship of the list in their pursuits > of all things Joni is JC! (especially jonifests, tape/video tree > discussion, etc.) Thank you so much, Sue! O.K., that one is very happily settled now! ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 21:38:10 -0000 From: "Matthew Hall" Subject: Re: new non-joni music - tori amos 'to venus and back' you asked about some new non-joni music, including Tori Amos' new release 'To Venus and Back'. Well I can't recommend it highly enough. It has just been nominated for something like 'best alternative performance' and it is extremely well-deserved. It's quite different from her other stuff, but as she says, 'you can't make an album called venus and go retro!' If you liked her cover of 'A Case Of You' which I personally, rate alongside Joni's original, then you will certainly love some of the tracks on the album. In particular '1000 Oceans' is beautiful, as well as 'Josephine' sung from Napoleon's point of view: 'Not tonight Josephine'. 'Juarez' is also stunning, about the many unsolved rapes and murders in the desert. 'Riot Poof' is pretty mad, written for a member of her touring crew who came out last year: 'break the terror/break the terror/break the terror of the urban spell'. Even though this album is less piano-orientated than before, her playing is stunning throughout. Especially on the trippy 'Datura' where she sings through one speaker: 'hey hey, get out of my garden' and recites all the names of the plants in her garden through the other. and bonus!!!! there is a live cd included as well, which are some of the best live tracks from her 'plugged '98' tour last year. this Cd is really good, but it's worth noting that it isn't a greatest hits by any means, instead she's shown consideration for the fans by including the tracks she thought she played best, a lot of them she doesn't play a lot, so it's a pretty good listen. My honest opinion is that if you like Joni, (as I do, actually from hearing about her through Tori) then you will love Tori. If you're new to her music though, then probably the best place to start is her debut 'Little Earthquakes' because it is simply stunning. Especially 'Me And A Gun' which she sings a capella... but anyway... I know I sound like an infomercial but i love this album - my fave of last year, one of my favourites ever, except perhaps, some of her earlier releases. If you want to know anything else than mail me Macy Gray's album is also phenomenal - very soulful, and, i hesitate to use the word, groovy. I think I have seen 'bitter' in the shops, i'm wondering about that one too love matthew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 15:44:37 -0600 From: evian Subject: a funny (NJC) Hey Listers, if anyone wants a good laugh, I was just at the CBC Radio site, and they have the classic As It Happens clips still on the site. Trust me, you have to click on the one with the late Barbara Frum and the man with the big cabbage. Trust me, just do it! You will be rolling on the floor, and remember that this was live radio. The rest are great too, but just listen to the cabbage man! www.radio.cbc.ca/programs/asithappens/classics.html TGIF! Evian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:48:38 EST From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: Joni companion in UK > Raffaele in London wrote - Does anyone in the UK >know whether the Joni Mitchell Companion is in the > bookshops? the only source trade source I can see claims it'll be here in February. If it's already out in the USA, expect Helter Skelter in London to be stocking it on import (address & phone in the ads at the back of Mojo). David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 14:49:24 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:23:31 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Please continue to post the Jonifest info as JC! Absolutely!! I think anything that has to do with the fellowship of the list in their pursuits of all things Joni is JC! (especially jonifests, tape/video tree discussion, etc.) I just don't want to read peripheral discussions of movies, politics, culture, etc. And this is just because there is not enough time in the day to read all that, not because I'm not interested in stimulating discussion. I think all this is pretty clear in the JMDL intro when you sub.scribe. We have options here! And then there is always the delete key! Thanks for your hard work for this list, Kakki. The west coast connection has been VITAL to our joy!! Take care, Sue >Which brings up a question I've always had regarding the posting of JMDL >content, such as upcoming get-togethers or reports of Jonifests, large, >medium and small. I'm never sure whether to label these NJC or not, and am >usually arbitrary about the labeling when I post on those topics. I tend to >think that the only-Joni list may want to hear about these events so as to >not feel left out or maybe to enjoy the posts, but this has never really >been confirmed one way or another as far as I can recall. I would like to >hear from the only-Jonis as to their preference on this. > >Kakki > >NP: Joni - Case of You ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:07:09 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? (NJC) The Merry Minuet (lyrics) by the Kingston Trio They're rioting in Africa They're starving in Spain There's hurricanes in Florida and Texas needs rain The whole world is festering with unhappy souls The French hate the Germans the Germans hate the Poles Italians hate Yugoslavs South Africans hate the Dutch And I dont like anybody very much They're rioting in Africa Theres strife in Iran What nature doesnt do to us Shall be done by our fellow man. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:30:49 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: KCSN Joni Interview In a message dated 1/7/00 3:33:08 PM US Central Standard Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << I hope that when you hear it in higher-fidelity you will have a different feeling toward it. Her new "Case of You" is the one that really choked me up. The only way I can describe it is that it is like she is singing her whole life in this rendition. It is devastating. >> Obviously, I hope so too...I don't think the warmth and texture and nuance of the vocal is evidenced in the recording, and it may be the "newness" of the recording, BUT I remember being blown away by "BSN" in Atlanta, "Stormy Weather", and "Summertime", and it didn't happen with "Case of You". But I'm keeping my mind (and ears) open...as for "Comes Love", I've heard that TOO much on all the live stuff, so I'm anxious to hear the rest. Bob NP: Seal, "Killer" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:55:57 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: sensitivity to the insensitve? Bounced Message wrote: > From: Kleronomos@aol.com > Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 07:52:09 EST > > Amazing that a l o n g post by Vince, supposedly about > sensitivity, so insensitively neglects to include an NJC in the subject line. I certainly do apologise for forgetting the NJC, caught it a fraction too late, and did qucikly add it to the replies the NJC tag. My apologies, again. (the Rev) Vince, debating whether this needs an NJC tag or not... ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #11 **************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?