From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #578 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, December 27 1999 Volume 04 : Number 578 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- confessions on Xmas eve -continued- [mann@chicagonet.net] Handel-mania/phobia ["Russell Bowden" ] Re: confessions on Xmas eve NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Religious imagery in Joni's songs [Vince Lavieri ] Millennium Countdown #6 (NJC) [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Religious imagery in Joni's songs ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni Interview tape tree ["Kakki" ] Re: Religious imagery in Joni's songs ["Kakki" ] Re: Religious imagery in Joni's songs [catman ] Blossom and DustyNJC [catman ] Re: JMDL Digest V4 #577 (Jenny's post) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Handel-mania/phobia NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Handel-mania/phobia (NJC) [Bolvangar@aol.com] Re: Handel-mania/phobia NJC [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Handel-mania/phobia NJC [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: "Anna" in TTT revealed [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:55:36 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: confessions on Xmas eve -continued- Hey sad Jenny, Don't feel so alone. I was raised a Jehovah's Witnesses from the age of about two years old. My mother who had taught Sunday School for years hadat the time become a Christian Scientist (I have pictures with my brothers going to Church on Sunday). My Jewish father who went to Texas to recover from a heart-attack met a JW doing the same and after speaking with him over the next couple of weeks came home with a 'new' religion. Eventually mom changed too .....as she felt the JW's answered all the questions the priests had told her could not be answered and were "God's Secrets". Because of Mom we had celebrated X-Mas. The only thing I miss about it is the coming together of the families. It was always a fun time being with all the relatives and cousins...... the funny thing is it was my Jewish relatives and cousins that came to celebrate x-mas with us!!! Because of something traumatic that happened about 15 years ago. (a long story I don't care to get into at this time) and some other related circumstances I no longer attend the weekly meetings. "Inactive" I'm labeled. However, I cannot help but believe the things I was taught and really embraced about the age of 18, when I could think for myself and began living on my own. But as for feelings of aloneness.........I know what that feels like too. It can be deep when you're thinking and believing different then the main stream of thought. This doesn't start and stop with religious beliefs........which we all know can be as strong as life and death itself (look at all the religious wars thru history). Have you ever tried talking to medical doctors and nurses about hard-core alternative medicines and the dangers of immunizations???? ha! This is another area I have a passionate belief in, due to continued research of BOTH sides of the issue. Another belief that is isolating. It is humbling when I think that God made ALL people. Which really is the better person..........the righteous one or the good one? Both can be pleasing in God's eye. The good person does good things because he wants to whereas the righteous person does good things because he has to. We are all God's children.........and Jesus was sent to earth and gave up his life for all people. We enjoyed dinner at a Chinese Buffet yesterday. They seem to be popping up all over this part of Illinois.............and sure is yummy for the small price they want. Laura.....with no 'label' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 09:25:51 PST From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: Handel-mania/phobia Fellows (and Fellowettes(?)Fellowinas(?)) I hope this millenium countdown thang isn't simply for musicians, cause there just ain't 6 above Mozart...maybe JS Bach...Mozart did call him the father of us all (composers) Bob, have you consulted with Dr. Sid Mondegreen about this Handel Hang-up you are experiencing?? The Messiah is overplayed AND parts of the Water Music, Fireworks, and all that trumpet stuff, BUT....You know he did the Messiah between 14 and 21 DAYS?? Geez, just writing all those notes down, let alone composing them out his haid is a feat worth honorable mention...(Rossini did the Barber of Seville in about 2 weeks) Try Handel's operas; Semele or Giulio Casare (SP?, help ,me out here Wally K.) This is GREAT stuff...Even Mozart..don't you say nothin' bad about my Wolferl!.. did a cover of the Messiah, adding horns and woodwinds...OK, he only did it cause Baron von Swieten (prefect of the royal library in Vienna) had a hard-on for Handel and wanted to keep his music alive.this in 1782 or 3 or sometime around there..AND cause Mozart needed the cash!!! Shun the oratorios if you must, but please don't dismiss him out of hand(el)?!?! Ouch.... Joni's great Joni's good Let us thank her For audio food. Slouching toward 2000 with Love, Russ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 13:03:04 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: confessions on Xmas eve NJC In a message dated 12/25/1999 11:58:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, ewwtaylor@adelphia.net writes: << The only thing I did this Christmas was visit my 93 year old friend in a nursing home. She has no family & I woke up thinking of her. I took Ann out for lunch only to discover that everything was closed - even McDonalds! We drove around looking for a Chinese restaurant or Jewish Deli & finally found a Toot-n-Scoot gas station with a few tables. We had hot dogs & hot chocolate. I gave her a large print Bible & she gave me an ornament that she'd made in a craft class. It might sound dull but it was the best Christmas I've had in many years. E.T. >> What a great story Eric!! I think that was a great way to spend Christmas. I think that I get S.A.D. as well. That is why I want to move to a warmer place that is sunny ALL the time. Too many days of freezing gloomy days can really get to you after a while. That is why I also like to vacation in Feb until the day I can move from this place. catgirl living in PA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 13:19:50 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Religious imagery in Joni's songs I am in beneath the horizon ultra deep lurk mode but could not let this one pass by. 1985's DED, track 4, "Tax Free" "How can he speak for the Prince of Peace when he's hawk-right-militant" in that snippet and more so in the entire song reveals an acumen not present in the Christian Right, and a pain at the Christian Right that comes from someone who cares enough that the Gospel is being twisted. A lot of Biblical imagery shows up in Joni's lyrics/, "Jericho" leaps to mind. But for this holiday season: Start with 1971's "River" off of Blue, then go to 1982's WTRF, track 11, "Love" which is totally based on, and re-interprets in part, 1 Corinthians 13 of the Christian Covenant (New Testament), in my cd insert mislabeled Corinthians II:13, a mislabeling carried over in Complete Poems and Lyrics. The usage of 1 Corinthians 13 is too good, too well done, too well interpreted, to be by someone with only a passing acquaintance with the text. And then to 1998's TTT, track 9, "Face Lift" "Love takes so much courage, Love takes so much shit.... we kissed the angels and the moon eclipsed... bless us!" Knowing what "Face Lift" is about, and putting that in connection with "River and "Love" makes it all the more poignant. Whatever Joni's current religious/spiritual beliefs are, a matter that is between her and her experience of God, she is very conversant in Biblical/Christian imagery. Listen to River, Love, and Face Lift right in a row, connecting the three songs' themes to the finding of her daughter... Merry Christmas and on this Feast Day of St. Stephen, may we all find a poor person to give assistance to just as did Good King Wenceslaus on the Feast of Stephen, December 26. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 11:07:41 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Millennium Countdown #6 (NJC) # 6 Jimi Hendrix It might be fun to hear guesses, in order of finish, for the top 5. Beatles, Dylan and Clapton will be in there, fer sure, but I still haven't seen Sinatra, Streisand, Areosmith, Al Green, Pavorati, Elvis Presley..... And sorry, Russell, (I almost wrote you privately to buffer the Mozart blow ;-) I would have had Mozart, Beethoven and Bach all finish in of the top ten, too. My two cents. Smiles, Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 13:53:58 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Religious imagery in Joni's songs Rev. Vince wrote: >Whatever Joni's current religious/spiritual beliefs are, a matter that is between her > and her experience of God, she is very conversant in Biblical/Christian > imagery. From what I've read in a few interviews, and specifically a Canadian TV interview from the mid-90s, Joni's philosophical leanings are toward Buddism, but she also embraces Jesus and Judaism. Isn't it true that Buddism is not really a "religion" as we think of it in sectarian terms, but rather a philosophy that can be incorporated into anyone's lives, regardless of the religious demonination they personally follow? Kakki, enjoying the annual SoCal Christmas "miracle" of 80 degree weather and clear skies uncovering all the mountains and the city in crisp detail ;-) NP: Santana - Supernatural ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 14:02:02 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni Interview tape tree Catgirl, CD burner extraordinaire asked: > I would like to get a Cd of this. so Pattie, Do you want me to mail you a > blank or do you want to do a trade? > Catgirl coming out of hiding...very busy...you know..life...yikes!! A number of people have asked me if they can get the interview on CD but I'm always the lowest-tech person around and so don't have a CD burner. I was also one of the last people on earth to get a VCR! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 14:05:31 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Religious imagery in Joni's songs Ay yi yi! I wrote: >religious demonination>> This was not a deliberate play on words and I hope not a Freudian slip!! Kakki, recovering from too much rum or maybe too much moon this weekend ;-D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 00:06:56 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Religious imagery in Joni's songs Kakki wrote: > Ay yi yi! I wrote: > > >religious demonination>> > > This was not a deliberate play on words and I hope not a Freudian slip!! But very apt anyway! Religon causes so much grief. spirituality is more real. > > > Kakki, recovering from too much rum or maybe too much moon this weekend ;-D - -- those who believe in the inerrancy of the bible actually believe in the inerrancy of their own judgement and interpretations. "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 16:09:14 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: "Anna" in TTT revealed I recall awhile back we had a long thread trying to determine the identity of "Anna" in the song Taming the Tiger. Joni pretty much identifies her in the new interview. She is speaking about the painting from the TTT booklet of her and the deer with the group of people in the background (which is one of Joni's, Neil Ingles' and my favorites). The painting was taken from an actual photograph when Joni was appearing at a concert in Japan in the early 90s along with Dylan, Miles Davis, Wayne Shorter and others. The concert venue was near a little park where they had the famous "bowing" deer milling around. Joni said there is another photograph of the people she and the deer are looking back at, including Wayne Shorter's wife, Anna, who was lost in the TWA 800 airplane crash a few years ago. She pronounces her name "Ah-na" in the interview just like in the song and said this was the last time she ever saw her. And then I think of the lyrics - "I watched the stars chuck down their spears And a plane went blinking by And I thought of Anna, wild and dear Like fireworks in the sky" Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 00:09:45 +0000 From: catman Subject: Blossom and DustyNJC BBC2 have just shown an hour long program about Dusty Springfield. The opening song was about Dusty and sung by Blossom Dearie who I believe was discussed recently on this list. I didn't have clue who she was so took little notice of that thread and yet here she is singing on the tv. - -- those who believe in the inerrancy of the bible actually believe in the inerrancy of their own judgement and interpretations. "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:12:03 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #577 (Jenny's post) I had neighbors a few years ago who were Jehovah's Witness. They were really lovely people with young children, one of whom was the same age as our oldest. They were caring and sensitive parents. Though their religion did not allow them to celebrate birthdays, they didn't deprive their children of the fun of a party. They would throw theme parties (Barney or a teddy bear picnic party) with balloons, cake, games, etc. I learned from them that there is one occasion when they can celebrate by giving gifts - the wedding anniversary. I felt really glad to know them because I was then able to counter the negative stereotypes that people have about this particular faith (and in most cases people like that are negative toward the faith of anyone other than those who worship exactly as they do). I like blowing people's presumptions about such matters. Jenny, I'm glad you feel welcome here. Be well, ok? Take care, Gina NP: Mortal City - Dar Williams ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:27:26 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Handel-mania/phobia NJC Russell sez: <> OK, so by now I'm feeling like the character in the movie "Airplane", when everyone lines up to slap her, hit with a baseball bat, etc...:~) That's OK though...I spent a large portion of my life trying to be like everyone else, now I'm mature enough to be able to admit that I ain't, and honest enough to say that The Messiah is boring and pompous (except for the Hallelujah Chorus which is very stirring). You like it? Awesome!! YOU listen to it, I've got GOOD music to spend MY time with... Besides, the good Doc Sigmondegreen would just say..."Vee haff vaze to make you like Der Messiah!" :~) Anyway, did anyone ever connect Mozart to Joni? I thought about... Mozart portrayed by Tom Hulce in Amadeus Tom Hulce also in Animal House as "Pinto" Sam Cooke's "Wonderful World" in Animal House James Taylor does a cover of Sam Cooke's "Everybody Loves to Cha Cha Cha" (except for Divine, cuz he/she ain't got them "Cha-Cha Heels"!! :~D As for Hendrix, P.M. Dawn has covered both Joni and Jimi, and Joni has painted Jimi as well...by the way, I searched and searched to find where PM Dawn's "River" cover can be had to no avail. If you know, or if you have it, please step up to the plate... Hope everyone's enjoying their holiday! I'm in Raleigh now, where everyone else involved with Nintendo which is NP... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 19:40:56 EST From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Re: Handel-mania/phobia (NJC) Bob M. wrote: <> I was thinking you could probably do it entirely musically through the tune we know today as "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" (or the alphabet tune), which Mozart wrote a set of piano variations on (though I don't think he wrote the tune itself). Surely some popular music act in the past 30-40 years linkable to Joni has quoted that tune? - --David NP: Massive Attack, _Mezzanine_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 23:33:06 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Handel-mania/phobia NJC In a message dated 12/26/1999 7:29:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << Besides, the good Doc Sigmondegreen would just say..."Vee haff vaze to make you like Der Messiah!" :~) >> Ven eet comes out een Hebrew, den I give it a listen. Dr. SigMondegreen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 23:25:45 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Handel-mania/phobia NJC Bob wrote: <> Oh Bob, don't you get sensitive on me. ;~) I've always appreciated how you courageously and honestly stated your opinions, regardless of how popular your views. I just thought Christmas day being Mozart's day on the countdown would be a fun time to spoof your dislike of Handel. And if I didn't love you like a brother, feeling comfortable with your fine sense of humor, I wouldn't have played with the firm Handel you have on your musical convictions. In my book, it's still a very good thing to "not be easily swayed". ;~) Love, hugs and smiles, Penny PS I don't recall anyone linking # 10 Rolling Stones to Joni. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 23:44:10 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: "Anna" in TTT revealed Kakki wrote: <> In the "it's such a small world" catagory, I worked for a woman last month who used to date Joe Zawinul, co-founder of Weather Report. Of course I couldn't resist questioning her on the boys in the band. About Jaco's reportedly huge ego, "believe it or not, Joe's is even bigger" she said as she snickered. Wayne Shorter, "Oh he's such a nice guy, very quiet and gentle. Oh, but you should have met his wife, Anna Marie! She was one of the sweetest people God ever put on this earth." Thanks for the interview snippet, Kakki. Is the interview still being planned to go up as an mp3? Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #578 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?