From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #560 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, December 13 1999 Volume 04 : Number 560 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: A Weekend With Joni ["Lisa Peakes" ] Re: LA Weekly Art review (long) [dsk ] Re: A Weekend With Joni ["Kakki" ] Re: LA Weekly Art review [dsk ] Joni in odd places, guitar questions [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: LA Weekly Art review NJC [dsk ] Re: Mc Joni?? [dsk ] Re: Art Criticism & Solid Reggae. [Peter Sullivan ] Re: Rolf, Blossom, and even some Joni content [Roman ] RE: Joni's Autobiography [Jamie Zubairi ] RE: Millennium Countdown [Jamie Zubairi ] Re: Joni in odd places, guitar questions NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Rainbow's Rambling NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Novel ideas [Jamie Zubairi ] London Joni fest [Jamie Zubairi ] Re: LA Weekly Art review (LONG) - now NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: The rest of Joni in RS [Anne Sandstrom ] RE: Millennium Countdown [Anne Sandstrom ] Joni on Radio 4 [Jamie Zubairi ] RE: "Harlem In Havana", in appreciation of [Jamie Zubairi ] RE: The Hissing of Summer Lawns [Anne Sandstrom ] Art Critic's Jibberjabber [Julian51469@aol.com] Re: Art Critic's Jibberjabber (now NJC) [Don Rowe ] James Dean's Porsche (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Joni in odd places, guitar questions [Don Rowe ] NJC Cosmic Close Dance [Julian51469@aol.com] NO 30... MOODY BLUES ["Tony Wyer" ] Re: NJC Cosmic Close Dance ["Kakki" ] Re: Art Critic's Jibberjabber (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Art Critic's Jibberjabber (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Wally's weekend ["Sue Cameron" ] Merry Xmas NJC [catman ] Re: Art Critic's Jibberjabber (NJC) [catman ] Re: Laura Nyro, Nested (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Art Critic's Jibberjabber (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Wally's words [Maggie McNally ] Re: Major Joni in the new RS ["Eric Taylor" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 03:31:52 -0500 From: "Lisa Peakes" Subject: Re: A Weekend With Joni Thanks for the extra help with JMDL and with Wally's website. It's a hell of a site - first class - and so much for one person, however healthy, to do. Wally does a fantastic job, and you're so good to help! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 03:42:12 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: LA Weekly Art review (long) Mark in Seattle wrote: > Something about the way she renders faces and human forms really makes > me think of Hopper. Maybe their stillness and the large areas of relatively flat color. Joni's figures are usually close up whereas Hopper's are distant, surrounded and isolated by lots of space, and usually not looking directly at the viewer. The shapes and sense of melancholy loneliness are similar to both though. > I'm curious about something. Did some of you who have studied art > find this article informative? There was so much jargon about various > styles, sometimes I got the feeling the author was just stringing > adjectives together that sounded impressive. It sort of turns me off > to ever making any kind of serious study of painting. It was a rather confusing article to me also, more of an explanation of why the shows were being reviewed then about the artwork itself. I think the description of how artists resent the attention given to a celebrity's work just because of that person's fame is accurate. It makes it very obvious how unfair the game is. Seems to me the article is an indictment of the art world itself. > Not that I was really considering doing this but I have found myself > increasingly > interested in painting as I get older. Seeing the Van Goghs in LA, a > few O'Keeffes here in Seattle a couple of years ago and the more > recent Chuck Close exhibit really opened my eyes to how vibrant and > beautiful the real thing can be as opposed to looking at prints in a > book. Oh, yes, they cannot at all compare. Unfortunately most of the artwork people see is in printed reproductions -- thousands of colors, light and texture reduced to the 4-color printing process, usually in a very small size. Always see artwork in person if you can, and only refer to the reproductions to refresh your experience of it. > Does criticism and/or the study of art really have to be so technical > and intellectually convoluted to be valid? Criticism is part of the publicity machine, so it's always got to be taken with a big grain of salt. Art historians tend to be very intellectual and wordy, but the study of art doesn't have to be that. I'd say it involves a lot of looking and whatever you have a strong reaction to (you want to rip it off the wall, take it home and restructure your house around it ... or you want to rip it off the wall and use it to make a bonfire as soon as you get to the sidewalk outside) is something to investigate. Most things will probably be in the middle, but after a few of those strong reactions and you'll start to see what's speaking to you and begin to investigate what's similar among those works. Then there are books, or people to ask, or just looking some more. And looking inside yourself, too. It can be a very interesting journey. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 00:50:48 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: A Weekend With Joni I feel like a wonderful and great present just arrived to us with Wally's story. The weekend visit sounded beyond magical and the photos are just fantastic. Joni is so beautiful inside and out. Thanks, Wally and Leslie. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:00:19 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: LA Weekly Art review Patricia O'Connor wrote: > I have been racking what is left of my brain to think of what painting, the > future cover of Both Sides Now is a semi-copy of. I know that I have seen > that composition of someone slumped over a bar with smoke clouds swirling > over, and alot of background/space at the top. At first I thought it was > Degas' "Absinthe Drinker" but it isn't, does anyone know? How about the early Picasso of two melancholy people at a table? I think it's called the "Frugal Repast." Not something Joni copied exactly, but the woman's gaze and pose is similar. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:04:32 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Joni in odd places, guitar questions Okay, Joni's been heard in McDonalds, but last week I heard her in the Ralph's grocery store here in Los Angeles. And not a muzak-y version, but herself singing Chinese Cafe. That was cool. A few days later, I am listening to a very funny book on tape called "Lucky You". One of the characters is a woman intent on saving some virgin acres of Florida real estate for the indigenous wildlife. She knows the property has been sold to someone who wants to build a mall with a parking lot. She sighs and says "It's just like that Joni Mitchell song." I wanted to ask guitarists on the list how often they change their guitar strings. And what are the advantages/disadvantages to light or heavy gauges of strings? Are Martin strings the best? And for recording on a four track, what are the best cassettes? I recently recorded over some old cassettes and can hear remnants of the original recordings. love, peace and ecstasy to you all, Clark NP - Phish - Hoist ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 04:44:40 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: LA Weekly Art review NJC Mark in Seattle wrote: > I followed the link to the website and read the entire review. There > are some descriptive passages about the individual artists' works. > Here is one phrase in particular that I thought was pretty outrageous: > > 'Alpert began painting in the early '70s, gradually evolving his own > version of gestural biomorphic abstraction, the transitional style > between Surrealism and Abstract Expressionism.' > > Now just what the hell does 'gestural biomorphic abstraction' mean? Biomorphic abstraction is a phrase often used nowadays to describe paintings of natural shapes, often cellular type shapes (like what you used to see using the microscope in biology class), but since they're not actual depictions of reality, they're considered abstractions. Terry Winters is a well-known contemporary artist that often uses this type of image. Gestural means you can see the movements the artist made, and for some artists, the gesture is extremely important (Kandinsky and especially Cy Twombly come to mind). (Think of the difference in appearance and feeling between the gesture of writing your signature and carefully printing out each letter of your name.) So I think the reviewer here is saying "natural shapes painted loosely, so you can see the brushstrokes", but that's only a guess. So far, so good, but then the reviewer lost me with the "transitional style..." phrase. He makes it sound like gestural biomorphic abstraction was the link between Surrealism and Abstract Expressionism, which started in the 40s, and that Alpert has resurrected that style. I don't know what the reviewer is thinking of here. Oh well, it's not all that important anyway. ;-) Time to move on. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 05:17:37 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Mc Joni?? Russell Bowden wrote: > I hear a very familiar, high, long uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggge!!! .... I fly to the > counter, killing several patrons on the way; demanding to speak to management > IMMEDIATELY!!! A very nice gentlemen refrains from flogging the staff to > attend to my query...which kinda went something like this: > IS THAT A RADIO STATION CASSETTE TAPE WHO PICKS THIS MUSIC DO YOU KNOW THAT > YOU JUST PLAYED JONI MITCHELL IN HERE I HAVE A NEW RESPECT FOR YOUR ENTIRE > ORGANIZATION THANK YOU SO MUCH SLOBBER FAWN ASS-KISS ORDER ANOTHER CHOCOLATE > MILK SHAKE GET THE ADDRESS OF CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS LOL!!! Your post completely cracks me up!!! My most recent Joni-hearing was around Thanksgiving in the Black-Eyed Pea, a family style restaurant in Virginia where we'd gone for an "escape from turkey" dinner. I didn't even know music was playing, but all of a sudden I heard a piano and by the time it got to that little run of notes, I'd announced excitedly to everyone at the table, "Oh WOW it's Joni Mitchell, Court and Spark, 1974. WOW, that's great." The jaws on the older teenagers dropped, the 13-year old said "that's a girl singing?" I managed to say yes, Joni Mitchell, but couldn't talk anymore because I just had to listen. The 9-year old was probably worried I'd break into song like I did when we were in a pet store about a year ago and Circle Game came on. Please don't, she's probably thinking. And I didn't even look at the other adults at the table because I just knew there would be a lot of eye-rolling going on. And they knew that until the song finished I would be unreachable. And then when C&S ended, I waited for more Joni, but there were only Jingle Bell type Christmas songs, and after paying attention for a little while, I lost interest and didn't hear the music at all anymore. How odd and enjoyable it is to have Joni-antennae! I hadn't listened to C&S in years and yet recognized it within a few notes. Joni's music has really soaked into my brain. Those little C&S cells were just so happy to hook up again. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:48:37 +0000 From: Peter Sullivan Subject: Re: Art Criticism & Solid Reggae. I've read all the posts about the LA Review, and all I can add is in the words of John Cleese from "Pleasure at Her Majesties", when Michaelangelo said, "You don't want an artist, you want a bloody photographer", he replied "Look, I'm the bloody Pope, mate, I may not know much about art, but I know what I like". Actually, I went to Art College, and I remember stringing adjectives together to justify my paintings, when all I really wanted to say was, "I like it, if you don't, sod ya". So, good on ya, Joni. Keep on painting what you like, and sod the critics. I was watching an old video the other night of Joni at the Wembley Arena in April 1983. Does anybody know if this concert was retailed officially? I taped it from BBC2 on an old steam driven Betamax, and the quality is not perfect. In this concert she sings "Solid Love", and the keyboard accompaniment is definitely in the reggae style. I also noticed a typo in the credits at the end of the show, Bass - Larry Klem. Does any body remember this concert? Was anybody there? - -- Peter Sullivan Marketing Media Editor email: sul@interchange.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------ This email has been swept for viruses by the Interchange Firewall. NO COMMITMENT MADE VIA EMAIL IS CONSIDERED BINDING UNLESS CONFIRMED BY MAIL OR FAX. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 20:39:00 +0100 From: Roman Subject: Re: Rolf, Blossom, and even some Joni content AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > Bob, I too think that The Dreaming is a brilliant album. However, I wouldn't > recommend it as a starter. I don't normally recommend compilations, but The > Whole Story would be a good place to start if you're a complete Kate > beginner. If I had to say one, I'd say start at the beginning with The Kick > Inside. Yes, I'd certainly go along with that advice. I was a huge Kate fan at one time, had all the albums etc, but to just dip into one mid-period Kate album might send a beginner into severe shock. Probably best to start gently at the beginning and let the picture build up slowly. BTW I don't rate the last two albums at all, apart from the stunning title track of Sensual World. But it's a personal thing - I know others that heartily disagree and think she's getting better and better. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:40:46 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: Joni's Autobiography Ryan wrote Does anyone know anything new about the book Joni is supposed to be writing? according to Waterstones in London, it's release date is the 31st of December 1999. There was a date LAST MAY when it was supposed to be released but it kept on getting bounced back. It is called 'Autobiography'. I believe it was going to be called 'Memoir' in May. A listeer who saw Joni in a hotel in May saw her also look over a hardcover book while she was eating. Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:43:39 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: Millennium Countdown - ---------- Bob Muller wrote 23 Beethoven: Beethoven had a selection in the original Fantasia in 1939. In that same film is a version of "Ave Maria". Tuck Andress plays a version of Ave Maria on his Christmas CD, Tuck and Patti cover a couple Stevie Wonder tunes, "I Wish" being one of them, and Stevie plays with Joni on Herbie Hancock Gershwin CD. Jamie Zubairi writes: 23 Beethoven: Joni writes Ludwig's Tune in memory of Beethoven, dedicated to the court composer who, while celebrated, never received the adulation from the girls. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 07:50:10 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in odd places, guitar questions NJC Clark mentions: <> Just a quick note, this is Carl Hiaasen's latest novel - he is my absolute favorite writer. If you're ever looking for a great, fun, read, ANY of his books are wonderful. Striptease was a great one, unfortunately ruined in film as so many good books are... Bob NP: XTC, "Greenman" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:04:43 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Rainbow's Rambling NJC Rainbow asks: <> Rainbow, be SURE not to miss "Being John Malkovich"...it's the most wonderfully creative movie I've seen since Terry Gilliam's "Brazil". As far as special effects, the scene where John "goes into his own head" has to be seen to be believed! Other wonderful movies I've caught this year that are probably out on video be now: "October Sky", "Run Lola Run" (German film, also very creative and original), "Twin Falls, Idaho" (incredibly original), "American Beauty", "Election", "The Winslow Boy". What was most encouraging about "Malkovich" was that it even got MADE! I saw that Michael Stipe (REM) produced it, hopefully this is a trend, that young creative, innovative people will step up to the plate and finance original ideas instead of the Hollywood suits feeding us the same ol' crap... Bob NP: Wilco, "A Shot in The Arm" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:16:57 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Novel ideas Dear devotees Has anyone read Lynn Vannucci's 'Coyote'? It starts off with Joni's quote, 'No regrets, Coyote...'. I have it but, ashamedly, I don't read novels (mainly plays). Is she on the list? Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:32:21 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: London Joni fest Dear London Jonifesters Thank you for replying to my post. Some people have offered to put 1 or 2 people up for the night in London, so mail me if you need any assistance in that area and I will forward you to the right person. Hear from you soon. Jamie 'The Zoob' Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:10:01 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: LA Weekly Art review (LONG) - now NJC Mark asks: >I'm curious about something. Did some of you who have studied art >find this article informative? There was so much jargon about >various >styles, sometimes I got the feeling the author was just >stringing >adjectives together that sounded impressive. It sort of >turns me off to >ever making any kind of serious study of painting <> >Does criticism and/or the study of art really have to be so technical >and intellectually convoluted to be valid? Or is the author of the >LA >review really full of him/herself? At the risk of starting a war of some kind, let me first point out that I am neither an artist nor have I studied art. On the other hand, I am married to an artist and I have read a number of reviews and heard a number of so-called experts yattering about art. Basically, Mark, I agree with you. Most of these people really are full of themselves, if not of something else. There seems to be an overwhelming desire by these people to use words that are so obscure as to render any understanding of their writing extremely difficult, if not impossible. It takes me back to the university English lit class, where some geeky type, trying to impress the prof, would stand up and make some pronouncement about TS Eliot that no one was really interested in hearing. There's jargon in every profession, and one of the reasons it exists is to make the rest of us feel really stupid and, therefore, to justify the high prices many of them charge for their services. It reminds me of something my sister sent to me called "Bullshit Bingo". What you're supposed to do with this is, you've got a list of jargony words the businezz-types use constantly. When you're in a business meeting, every time you hear someone say one of these words, you cross it off on your BS Bingo sheet. It works the way regular Bingo does - once you've got a row crossed off, you "win" - and it makes the meeting less dull for "normal" people who wouldn't be caught dead using this kind of lingo. I don't know about everyone else but, when I find a reviewer or writer who can cover his/her subject matter using plain English, I think that person knows much more than the bullshitter - they don't have to hide behind the lingo. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:03:34 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: The Angel Jimi and more Joni paintings Eric wrote: > I wonder if she thins the paint with scented oil? Would that be > aromavision? I personally use common or garden cooking oil, just cuz I can't afford to buy artist quality materials. God knows what it will do to my paintings in a coupla years time. But they've held up so far (7 years) Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:00:49 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: more Joni paintings Kakki wrote; This is an unusual one up close. All of the painting is smooth and flat (as far as paint application) except for her face, which not only appears rather ghostly, but the paint is heavily textured with a lot of little bumps! I swear it either looks like she has one of those exfoliating facial masques on that have little abrasive bits of stuff in it, or a bad case of adolescent pimples! I can't figure whether she did this so that the light would reflect off the surface or whether there is some other symbolic sub-text going on here. She's probably been looking at too much Lucien Freud, the 'ultra-realist' painter whose later paintings have a smooth, almost palette knife application in the backgroung, but you could swear that he uses mud to paint flesh. I don't know the extent of texturing Joni uses as I haven't seen any of the post 1990 paintings close up. Freud makes it look like these people have had some bad disease which they have recovered from. Also someone asked about the paintings in the Mingus period... they are flatter and almost, worked in to the canvas and have an air of stillness and space about them. The period immediately after that, pre DED, paintings about Mingus (Charlie The Bull Dying In Mexico), Georgia O'Keefe (The Mudd Club), and another painter (The Sun Goes Down On Jersey, Rises Over Little Italy) - all about 1980-84 - where passages of the figurative are almost 'collaged' with passages of abstraction. My favourite of those is 'Charlie The Bull'. I have the catalogue from the London Exhibition but I don't have a scanner and I wouldn't know how to put these on the net anyway... Any suggestions? Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:46:53 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: The rest of Joni in RS <> Will do - at lunch today... (I don't read my work email at home on weekends - - that's why it's taken me so long to respond...) Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:49:01 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: Millennium Countdown << 30 Moody Blues>> Justin Hayward of the MB recorded "MacArthur Park," written by Jimmy Webb. Joni does background vocals on a Webb song (which one?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:33:38 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Joni on Radio 4 On BBC Radio 4 every morning, there is a short drama piece about the reworking of Shakespeare's women into modern day (the piece I heard was about Ophelia talking to her psychiatrist, v.v.v funny take on the whole Hamlet thing) and there is a collage of music they play to bookend the series. The opening is the intro to Shades Of Scarlett Conquering. R4 certainly like their Joni. Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:17:26 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: "Harlem In Havana", in appreciation of Jim She tends to get overlooked in this song. It's the first off the album but people generally dismiss it as a bit of fun. Really it has a lot of character and theatre in the voice. SPIRIT and excitement. My personal faves are See that tall girl: THAT'S A MAN! That one too, With a yellow feather fan What kind of difference would 180 gram vinyl make to the sound? Jamie Zubairi Jim L'Hommedieu: I love this song, especially the way Joni's vocal comes wailing into the song at 1:33 when she goes, "at the FAR END OF THE MIDWAY by the double farris wheel there's a band that plays so snaky ya can't help how ya feel." I'm wondering if anyone will offer it on 180 gram vinyl one fine day. - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:28:10 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: The Hissing of Summer Lawns Relayer asks: What does everyone think of this album?It's one of my favorite's of Joni's. Jamie replies Well, it's was one of the first of Joni's records that was completely different to the rest of the oeuvre. The sixties officially ended in 1974, the same time C&S came out. 1975 came the new departure, she was getting comfortable enough with the band to cut them a little slack in the studio, she had a good relationship with Asylum to do what she wanted, almost. And the subject matter, almost nothing confessional, nothing about herself. It was more like good fiction, a little of your experience mixed with a little of what you heard and what you want to say. The guitar playing is nice and strong on it. My personal favourites are Harry's House, Don't Interrupt The Sorrow, Edith. Some of the material is a little hard to unpick (Shadows and Light) and some of it a little obscure (Shades...) and got many of the fans confused, thinking she was the characters in the songs, when really she was only playing the characters that she wrote. The sound of the album is amazing as well, from the Burundi drummers, to the bass to the horn section.... oooooh I could go on but I won't. Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:41:18 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: The Hissing of Summer Lawns I love HOSL. My only qualm has always been the mixing of Shades of Scarlet Conquering. I've always thought the level was too 'hot' overall. When I got the CD, I expected it would be 'fixed' but it's not. Does anyone find this to be true? Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:41:29 EST From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Art Critic's Jibberjabber In a message dated 12/11/99 3:32:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, Mark in Seattle writes: << 'gestural biomorphic abstraction' mean? >> Perhaps...impulsive, biologicaly referenced, non realistic renderings...or the raw energy of amoeba-like entities...or squiggly, glutonous whatchamacallits....or organic etcha sketched thingybops...or maybe that's just what it said on their Greenberg slide rule of artistic jargon. I can understand this poop 'cuz I've been indoctrinated into the exclusive world of artspeak drivel via the "higher education system"... and it's all a little like latin to a med student - helpful for diagnosing an anomaly, ailment of mutation, but utterly useless when it comes to bridging the communication gap between intellectual ivory towers and the rest of the world. I wish critics would tell me why THEY like something as opposed to why WE should like something. Maybe then their writing would be simplified and more personal. And for those folks who want to bash a creative work, you are wasting my time and yours not to mention raining on someone's artistic parade. Nuff said, Julian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:03:43 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Art Critic's Jibberjabber (now NJC) You GO Julian! I've long contended that this sort of "grant proposal double talk" is more about perpetuating the prof's own ego mania than instructing or deepening anyone's appreciation of art. Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:43:59 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: James Dean's Porsche (NJC) Jim Lammadamma wrote: >Someone described the small car in the Shadows and Light video version of >"Coyote" as looking suspiciously like a homemade car. It was a Porsche 356. >This is the car that James Dean, the actor died in. While Dean did indeed own a 356, he was killed in his Porsche 550 Spyder. Now removing my "car guy" hat... ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ (Website under construction!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:24:51 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni in odd places, guitar questions I think, more than odd 'places' where one can hear Joni, it's 'which' Joni you hear that can be just as surprising. We all expect BSN, Help Me, Free Man In Paris ... but I've recently heard "Car On A Hill" in an Italian restaurant, and most oddly "Edith and the Kingpin" in the grocery store. Now I know these songs like the bridge of my nose, but I swear it takes a while to sink in under the circumstances. Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 14:38:01 EST From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: NJC Cosmic Close Dance Just thought you should know...if you didn't already: DECEMBER 3I MARKS THE END of the millennium, as decreed by most members of the pub- lic, who judge these things by the turning of the num- bers. Or the date is still a year away ac- cording to the official Gregorian calendar. From an astronomical point of view, either millennium is irrele=3D vant-a day commemorating 1999 (or 2000) circuits of the Earth around the sun since the incorrect birth date of Jesus, who probably was born around 4 B.c. The better time to celebrate a truly once-in-a-thousand-years event arrives some nine days earlier than the official end of the millennium. =09This year's December 22 winter sol- stice coincides with a full moon, a com- bination that happens only every three decades or so. But that's not the only celestial oddity for the day: The moon also reaches perigee, its closest point The confluence of forces will brew up huge proxigean tides to the Earth. So this solstice, which brings together the year's lowest sun and longest night, comes at the same time as the closest moon-and a full moon to boot. The last time the full moon, lunar perigee, and winter solstice fell on the same daywas in I866. Even then the moon merely reached its clos- est approach of the month. On De- cember 22, the moon will be at its nearest point of the year It's the kind of event that drove primitive cultures bonkers. And there's more. The day of Earth's maximal tilt (when the axis is directed =09most fully away from the sun) will also combine with a very close sun, which reaches its nearest point to Earth 12 days later The confluence of all these forces at the very least will brew up huge proxigean tides, also called "clos- est of the close moon" tides. They will extend a few, but crucial, inches far- ther than normal, ranging from reach- the-boardwalk highs to lows that uncover rarely exposed marine life. Add a low-pressure storm at sea to the day, and coastal damage will be unusually likely Oceans act like the mercury in a barometer, rising in re- sponse to reduced air pressure. Ac- companying onshore winds lift the waters much farther. A little meteo- rological nudge could push strong tides over the edge. Even earthquakes occur more often during strong tides, although it's a weak effect. =09The cosmic culprits responsible for all this drama-the moon and the sun- occupy opposite ends of the sky on De- cember 21 and 22. A full moon will rise just as the sun goes down at its leftmost position of the year along the horizon. This exceptionally plump moon will seem I4 percent wider than it appeared when it was at apogee, its farthest point from Earth, on December 8. =09Long ago and early on in the expe- rience of using calendars, year's end al- ways coincided with the winter solstice. That changed during the switch from the Julian to the more accurate Gre- gorian calendar, beginning in the six- teenth century. What seems to have been lost was a much more appropri- ate time, from a celestial point ofview to celebrate the passing of 1,ooo years- on December 22, when the sun, moon, and Earth perform a genuinely once- in-a-millennium dance.=20 Hope all is well, Julian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 12:21:01 -0000 From: "Tony Wyer" Subject: NO 30... MOODY BLUES Well we will all have to think about that one. First two albums were good, and they were definitely on new ground, (Days of Future Passed 1967, In Search Of The Lost Chord 1968), but what followed was shite. regards Tony NP Caravan, In The Land of Grey and Pink Tony's Rough Guide to Skiing La Plagne http://www.wyer.force9.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:22:22 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC Cosmic Close Dance Julian wrote: > The confluence of all these forces at the very least will brew up huge proxigean tides, also called >"closest of the close moon" tides. They will extend a few, but crucial, inches farther than normal, >ranging from reach-the-boardwalk highs to lows that uncover rarely exposed marine life. Wow, this reminds me of an incredible low tide that occurred here when I was a child. I would spend every chance I could at the beach, even in the winter, and there was one warm December day when the tide went out at least a mile or more and left hundreds of large sand islands and tidepools. This was very unusual here in SoCal, where the ocean floor drops off abruptly to deep lengths close to the shore line. All over the place there were large (5-6 inch wide) Pismo clams uncovered and everyone went crazy digging for more. It was quite amazing and I've never seen this happen again at our local beaches. I wonder if it was something in the moon and stars and sun that particular year, too? Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:37:16 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Art Critic's Jibberjabber (NJC) Julian wrote: > and it's all a little like latin to a med student - helpful for diagnosing an anomaly, ailment of > mutation, but utterly useless when it comes to bridging the communication gap > between intellectual ivory towers and the rest of the world. I agree it is annoying and comes off as pretentious and even superfluous, but if I had to determine the "why" of artspeak, I guess that the critic (or teacher or historian, etc.) is using such oblique language in an attempt to show an almost "clinical" objectivity, lest the reader accuse them of too much subjectivity in the analysis of a particular work. However, it usually does nothing to help the "lay" reader understand the work, and in most cases probably turns them right off. A good writer should know his or her audience. I remember one of my fellow art major roommates in college who immediately picked up all the "lingo" and spoke in it constantly. It secretly cracked me up - although it did improve my vocabulary a bit to be immersed in it all the time. ;-) As Catherine pointed out, several other professions have their own little lingo. We all are familiar with the dreaded "legalese" and it's interesting that a few years back in California, the powers-that-be started mandating the elimination of extraneous legalese in the law books and in lawyers' briefs. I have really noticed the difference in the past few years and it's made my job so much easier and less headache-provoking! > I wish critics would tell me why THEY like something as opposed to why WE should like > something. Maybe then their writing would be simplified and more personal. > And for those folks who want to bash a creative work, you are wasting my time > and yours not to mention raining on someone's artistic parade. Nuff said, I could not agree with you more, Julian. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:36:10 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Art Critic's Jibberjabber (NJC) In a message dated 12/13/99 3:39:09 PM US Central Standard Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << And for those folks who want to bash a creative work, you are wasting my time > and yours not to mention raining on someone's artistic parade. Nuff said, >> Flesh out what you mean here, Julian...I heap praise when I like something but I also reserve the right to bash...Any artist who offers their work for public consumption is offering it for criticism, no? Besides, if I've handed over my hard-earned greenbacks for a movie or a CD or a play and it stinks, it's a little cathartic to tell others about it, so it's not really a waste of time from MY perspective. By the same token, if I save you from listening or watching something that I don't think you're gonna like, I'm saving you some time and $$. Maybe I misinterpreted what you meant. Bob NP: "The Priest" from concert w/JT ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 17:45:13 -0500 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Wally's weekend I read with tears in my eyes Wally's account of his weekend with Joni. What a gracious woman to share her time and open her home and heart. There is good reason all of us adore her so, as she has much to give in return. I think it is so cool that you got to do this Wally, and I am glad that Joni understands all the hours of love and attention that went into the website. You really did begin this wonderful journey for us all and I for one am eternally grateful. The pictures were lovely, just wish there would have been more. I loved the preview of the new album cover! Wally, your grin in those photos is worth a thousand words, and the shot of Joni playing pool is priceless. What got to me the most, though, was what Wally said at the end of his reminiscence. He gave Joni a gift. Three winning essays from the list. Whoa! Joni reading something that I wrote. The thought of this really blows me away. For years I have treasured and hung on her every word. I hope that she finds my writing one tenth as enjoyable as hers is to me. Wally, thanks again for everything you have done to make my dreams come true. Meeting Joni in October of '98 was all due to your website, and now her being able to read my story. The only thing that could make this Christmas perfect is your complete recovery. God bless! Sue Cameron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 23:00:02 +0000 From: catman Subject: Merry Xmas NJC Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit our best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all . . . ...and a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2000, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great, (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country or is the only "AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform, or sexual preference of the wishee. (By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.) - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 23:09:44 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Art Critic's Jibberjabber (NJC) > for a movie or a CD or a play and it stinks, > it's a little cathartic to tell others about it, so it's not really a waste > of time from MY perspective. By the same token, if I save you from listening > or watching something that I don't think you're gonna like, I'm saving you > some time and $$. Maybe it would be cathartic for you, but it wouldn't help me, even if you knew me well. Taste is soooo personal. What you might hate, I might love. It is for this reason i take no notice of critics and as I have said before, I see no value in them. I decide for myself what i watch or listen to and whtehr or not I like it.There doesn't seem to be an emotican suitable for this so just take it that I am not having a pop just stating my opinon. > Maybe I misinterpreted what you meant. > > Bob > > NP: "The Priest" from concert w/JT - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 18:55:25 -0500 From: waytoblu@mindspring.com Subject: He aimed really good at me (SJC) I was bored today driving home from Chattanooga, so I made this attempt at parody (inspired by all this Y2K paranoia which I think is completely ridiculous.) (to the tune of For Free) I spent last night in the hood...do tell, I went shopping today for guns. The wind blew around in the dusty town, As I handed one to my sons. I was standing on a noisy corner, Waiting for a crazy scene. Across the street they stood, And I aimed really good. So noone would fuck with me. Now me I bank a fortune, So I went and withdrew it all. But there were two gentlemen, Behind my back unseen, Spotting me with their ammo. They said, "Give me all your money." (Though they used to be friends to me.) So I gave it to the man, With the gun in his hand. Cause he was aiming really good At me. Nobody stopped to help me, Though I screamed so loud and high. They were all at home, With guns of their own, Watching planes fall out of the sky. Me I thought I'd take cover, And make me a bomb. Maybe, keep them from harmin' me. But I heard the rain, As the year finally changed, And we were all swept away By the sea. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 00:34:55 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: He aimed really good at me (NJC) well that was good, i enjoyed it. Paranoia comes easily when you live surrounded by US air bases and see fighters shoot past everyday and knowing there are missiles controlled ny computers all around especially with the Russian situation....... so if you don't here from me after midnight on the 31st kiss yourselves goodbye! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:53:27 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Laura Nyro, Nested (NJC) LN fans, I can't remember which lister(s) were trying to get ahold of Nested, but I've got the album if someone would be willing to burn me a Cd copy in exchange. It's not doing me any good sitting around here as our turntable has been out of commission for ages. :-( Contact me off-list. Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:04:07 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: He aimed really good at me (NJC) Colin wrote: >so if you don't here from me after midnight on the 31st kiss yourselves >goodbye! Yes, but I'll be the first on the JMDL (as far as I know) to see the New Year, so if I remember, and assuming I'm not too inebriated (I definitely wouldn't bet on THAT!) I'll send a message out! Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:18:58 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Laura Nyro, Nested (NJC) In a message dated 12/13/99 6:56:43 PM US Central Standard Time, zapuppy2@webtv.net writes: << I can't remember which lister(s) were trying to get ahold of Nested, but I've got the album if someone would be willing to burn me a Cd copy in exchange. It's not doing me any good sitting around here as our turntable has been out of commission for ages. :-( >> Penny, I have supplied our wild Argentinian with a CD copy of Nested...the *very* first thing I did when I got my CD-maker was to make a copy of Nested. And then I was so ecstatic I made a couple copies for a couple of pals. I would be glad to burn a copy of Nested on CD for whomever wants it...it's not currently available on CD, so it's not like It's a crime to copy it...if you're a Nyro fan and HAVEN'T heard it, you're in for a treat. It's not as musically complex as "Beads of Sweat" or "Tendaberry", but it's very pretty in its simplicity. One of my favorite records of all time I suppose, hard to believe the powers that be never saw fit to release it domestically on CD... Penny, let me know if you want a copy, sounds like you do. Have you been a good little girl? :~D Santa Bob PS: My turntable's been kaput for awhile now too... NP: Joni & James, "California" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:32:23 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Art Critic's Jibberjabber (NJC) In a message dated 12/13/99 5:12:04 PM US Central Standard Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << It is for this reason i take no notice of critics and as I have said before, I see no value in them. I decide for myself what i watch or listen to and whtehr or not I like it. >> While I realize this is your credo, Colin (and I think ALL of us make our own decisions on what we listen to & see), the sad truth is that one cannot simply see & hear everything that's out there. So it's helpful for me to be able to cull from several opinions (the list is my best source for music to be sure), and not waste my time on something that's inferior. Besides, it seems sort of depressing to me if the ONLY opinion you have any value for is your own...:~( As for the rest of you, please keep jibber-jabbering away! :~) Bob, thankful for all of you who spoke up about these records that I have enjoyed this year, I would not have heard them otherwise: Bryan Thomas, Radio Plastic Jennifer Zachary Richard, Cap Enrage Macy Gray, On How Life Is Jonatha Brooke, Live David Lahm, Jazz Takes on Joni Mitchell The Roots, Things Fall Apart Richard Thompson, Mock Tudor Meshell Ndegeocello, Bitter John Hall, Love Doesn't Ask NP: Joni & James, "The Circle Game" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:08:17 -0500 From: Maggie McNally Subject: Wally's words Thank you Wally for sharing the magical intimacy of your weekend with Joni. May you have many, many more. My best to you, Maggie Maggie McNally ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:55:11 -0500 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Major Joni in the new RS Kakki observed: << Something neat occurred to me the other day. The Jonifest Box Set concludes with the song "My Funny Valentine". Even though there is no way we could have planned it that way, what a perfectly apt song to end it on considering her upcoming Valentine's Day release of the new album of love standards, the heart on her sleeve in the painting and now this comment above. Robbie told us that Joni originally wanted to make the special edition box in the shape of a heart, too, but they decided against it. I know - it's probably too cutesy - but I kind of like it ;-)>> What GREAT synchronicity! Jung would be intrigued by this *meaningful coincidence.* Joni seems ESPecially sensitive to the collective unconscious & I wouldn't be at all surprised if she tapped into the JMDL archetype. Does anyone know where the heart shape originated? Certainly NOT from Leonardo's sketches.... E.T. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #560 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?