From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #540 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, December 1 1999 Volume 04 : Number 540 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Latin Music NJC ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Grace Of My Heart (SJC) ["Raffaele Malanga" ] RE: Joni's VIVID story from PWWAM - VERY LOOOONG ["Raffaele Malanga" ] Re: Jason's page and DED [Jason Maloney ] Re: Grace Of My Heart (SJC) [Jason Maloney ] RE: Joni's VIVID story from PWWAM - VERY LOOOONG [Jamie Zubairi ] re: Joni at City Island [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Favourite Christmas Song NJC ["rick novosel" ] 1968 Joni concert recording [James Elliott Benjamin ] Re: blossom dearie njc [jan gyn ] RE: "Grinch/Scrooge-like" ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Happy Days Off (NJC) (now boiled guitar strings) ["Catherine McKay" <] Re: Christmas music - yet another list (SJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Happy Days Off (NJC) (now boiled guitar strings) ["Paul Castle" ] RE: Christmas music - yet another list (NJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Aimee Mann (NJC) [Dmascall@aol.com] RE: How about a WORST Christmas Carol list? (NJC) [Louis Lynch ] Re: Latin Music NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: "Grinch/Scrooge-like" - NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Joni in City Island, NY [Jerry Notaro ] Re: How about a WORST Christmas Carol list? (NJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Millennium Countdown [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:24:07 -0500 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Latin Music NJC Eric Taylor wrote: > I've really enjoyed this debate on Latin music & can't wait to > hear some of the recommended music. and Steve Dulson posted the lyrics to 'Gaudete'. Quod Erat Demonstrandum. The JMDL works! PaulC PS Maddy is gigging here, at the Q E Hall (where we saw Sib), on Thursday 16th December. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 02:35:19 PST From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: Re: Grace Of My Heart (SJC) Hello Jason, happy to 'meet' another UK lister. >Can anyone who has the soundtrack tell me which songs featured in the >movie are actually included? Though I am now compelled to search out >the >CD anyway, it would be helpful to know which ones made it onto the >album. I believe that all the songs performed in the movie Grace of my Heart made it onto the album. I saw the film a couple of years ago, I pretty much liked it and got the CD. If you can't find it, send me a message and I'll copy it to you. Raffaele (in London) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 02:38:49 PST From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: RE: Joni's VIVID story from PWWAM - VERY LOOOONG >Mariana from Argentina complains.. >>Am I the only Lister who's never seen Joni live? I want to see her >>so >>badly! >> >No, there are two of us. Just you and me it seems ! >Martin. In London. Here is another one, I'm afraid... And it makes three. Raffaele (in London) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 02:47:31 PST From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: Re: "Grinch/Scrooge-like" >>Bob wrote: >>So anyway, I'll try to be less "Grinch/Scrooge-like"...hopefully >>the >> >folks >>that I've shared Joni music with would consider me a generous >>person. >Amen to that, Bob!! As a grateful recipient of music from your Joni > >treasure >chest, "Grinch/Scrooge-like" would be the last term I'd use to >describe >the >South Carolina Joni Guy. >Your Aussie mate, >John. I'm with you John. Bob IS a generous person. It goes beyond my English-American-slang-language knowledge what "Grinch/Scrooge" really is, but it doesn't sound nice, does it? Raffaele (in London) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 11:29:43 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Jason's page and DED evian wrote: > My dear listers, > You all must check out Jason Maloney's web page, not only for his > intricate lists his picks for top albums and singles for the 90's, but > also for his WONDERFUL thoughts on DED... You have said everything I > have wanted to say, but never have seemed to articulate. Well done > Jase! Thanks for the plug, Evian! :-) Glad you liked the site. It's only been up for a week, but I'm adding things on an almost-daily basis. Jason. The Slipstream....A Guide To Life In The Slow Lane : http://freespace.virgin.net/jason.maloney/index1.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 11:27:19 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Grace Of My Heart (SJC) Hello Raffaele, Pleased to meet you also. I've been having one of my bouts of lurkdom recently, which happens quite often when I don't feel well enough to post to the list. A belated "welcome to the JMDL!" :-) Thanks for the GOMH info, and the very kind offer. I shall have a look for the CD, but I know where to come if I can't find it :-) Best wishes, Jason. The Slipstream.....A Guide To Life In The Slow Lane : http://freespace.virgin.net/jason.maloney/index1.htm Raffaele Malanga wrote: > Hello Jason, > happy to 'meet' another UK lister. > > I believe that all the songs performed in the movie Grace of my Heart made > it onto the album. I saw the film a couple of years ago, I pretty much liked > it and got the CD. If you can't find it, send me a message and I'll copy it > to you. > > Raffaele (in London) > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:57:25 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: Joni's VIVID story from PWWAM - VERY LOOOONG Mariana from Argentina complains.. > Am I the only Lister who's never seen Joni live? I want to see her so badly! > No, there are two of us. Just you and me it seems ! Martin. In London. And me! Along with Raffaele that makes 4! Jamie Zubairi I thought I saw her walking down the street in South Kensington about the time of TI (which incidentally was where she would have been at the time, promoting it). A middle-class, middle aged blonde woman in shades looking very cool. It wasn't. It was just a dream all of us had. JAZ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 08:01:29 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: blossom dearie njc Wally, what gave you the idea I hated Blossom? No; far from it, I think she's creative and a vital personality on the scene. I was just imagining out loud what Richard Rodgers, who wrote "The Gentleman is a Dope" would have thought had he heard her do it. DL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 08:24:11 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: songbooks NJC David said: <> Ditto for They Might Be Giants version of "The Lady is A Tramp" (come to think of it, are these two songs companion pieces, David?) And my Dad, who raised me on Rodgers' tunes and Hart's lyrics, always hated The Marcell's version of "Blue Moon" but I love it - it's SO much fun to sing, especially if you've got about 3/4 people who know how to Doo-Wop... Bob NP: The Cure, "A Night Like This" ------------------------------ Date: 1 Dec 99 05:52:09 PST From: Frances Liccione Subject: re: Joni at City Island The station that was playing Joni Mitchell, WFUV, is a WONDERFUL station that is based right here in New York from Fordham University in the Bronx. For those of you who may not know, they are located at 90.7 FM on the dial and their website is www.wfuv.org. You will find lots of great stuff there...they are always doing "theme" days, and they NEVER forget Joni on her birthday. On that day they always do a day-long tribute to her music. You will also find them playing full albums straight through (usually in the evenings) and have often selected her albums. I think the last ones I can remember them playing were Hejira and Court and Spark. Also, for those of you who live in New York, if you become a member of the station for a small fee (they are publicly funded) one of the perks that you will receive is eligibility to receive free concert tickets once a month. All you have to do is call up their "listener line", hear the selections, give your name, and that's that. One of the many things they are connected with is "Sessions at West 54th" and you can get in to their live performances that way. I used to work at WFUV last year for two months. I started as a volunteer during their fund drive and stayed on because I liked it so much there and the people were so great. It is because of one of their DJ's, Darren DeVivo, that my dream of seeing Joni live came true...he gave me tickets around four years ago (it was like a radio call-in contest type of thing) to the taping of CBS This Morning where Joni was doing a special performance/interview...I also managed to work my way into the backstage "reception" after the taping and got to meet her, talk to her, I even have a great photo of her with her arm around me...but that's another story. So, when anyone mentions WFUV, I can't help but put my two cents in and encourage people to tune in...they are a fabulous group of people who put out magnificent music...check them out. Frances ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:53:04 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: re: Joni at City Island Frances said: <> Thanks Frances...I looked at the site since my buddy Emily shirked her homework (just kidding, em) and here's what they said: Blue #7 C&S #27 Hejira # 65 LOTC # 71 An awesome list by the way...anyone who wanted to compile a collection of classic rock and jazz could do worse than use this list as a guide. Now Frances, get on with your "I met Joni story"...;~) Bob NP: The Cure, "One Hundred Years" (which is how long this dud album of theirs Pornography seems to drag on)... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 08:37:50 -0800 From: "rick novosel" Subject: Re: Favourite Christmas Song NJC Even though there are many things in life which can get me teary-eyed, there is only one Christmas song which has the power to move me every time I hear it: Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas, as sung by Bert and Ernie on a Sesame Street Christmas album from the late 70's. They sing it at the end of a story based on O. Henry's "The Gift of the Magi" (which I guess adds a little Joni Content). Sounds silly but it's a beautiful expession of two people wishing their very best friend all the good things in the world. As a matter of fact, just thinking of it while I'm typing is making it difficult to see the keyboard. All the best, Rick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 11:53:17 -0500 From: James Elliott Benjamin Subject: 1968 Joni concert recording Does anyone know anything about (or anyone else have) the recording of a Joni performance made into a CD called "By the Banks of the River Charles?" I just found it at a second-hand CD store; it says "recorded live from 'Club 47', Cambridge, MA, Jan. 1968," and it includes four unreleased songs—Gift of the Magi, Vali, Come to the Sunshine, and The Way It Is. I couldn't find any mention of it on the Joni Mitchell web page "rarities" section (and the only one of these titles included there is Gift of The Magi). Thanks— jamesben@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:32:27 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: blossom dearie njc david, oh now i get it!!! sorry, a bit slow these days. i'm so glad you like blossom! i've been a fan since i was a child. is she still playing live? wally - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Para: CC: Enviado: Miércoles 1 de Diciembre de 1999 10:01 Asunto: Re: blossom dearie njc > Wally, what gave you the idea I hated Blossom? No; far from it, I think > she's creative > and a vital personality on the scene. I was just imagining out loud what > Richard Rodgers, who wrote "The Gentleman is a Dope" would have thought had > he heard her do it. DL > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 09:39:40 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: blossom dearie njc Whose Blossom Drearie? A jazz singer? From what age? BTW, great Joni pool pic in current issue of Rolling Stone. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:40:03 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: "Grinch/Scrooge-like" dear raffaele, scrooge is the main character in a xmas carol by charles dickens and the grinch is a xmas-hating cartoon character. wallyk - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Raffaele Malanga Para: ; CC: Enviado: Miércoles 1 de Diciembre de 1999 07:47 Asunto: Re: "Grinch/Scrooge-like" > I'm with you John. Bob IS a generous person. It goes beyond my > English-American-slang-language knowledge what "Grinch/Scrooge" really is, > but it doesn't sound nice, does it? > > Raffaele (in London) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 17:49:07 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Happy Days Off (NJC) (now boiled guitar strings) Paul said: >boiled strings don't seem to >last quite as long as new ones. > However, when served al dente with a little Parmesan cheese, they can be delicious! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 17:55:52 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Christmas music - yet another list (SJC) Anne asked: >Lullay Lully (Barbara Higbie - does anyone have the lyrics to this?) Years ago, my Dad had a recording of Christmas songs (unusual ones) sung by a group of nuns. I remember this one in particular because the melody is so beautiful. I believe it's meant to be Mary singing a lullaby to the baby Jesus. There are more verses, but this is what I remember: Refrain: Lullay, lullay, thou little tiny child Bye-bye lullay lullay Lullay, lullay, thou little tiny child Bye-bye lullay, lullay Verse: Herod the king, in his raging, hath he decreed this day, his men of might, in his own sight, all children young to slay. Needless to say, not a very pleasant verse, but this is the one I remember. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:58:14 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: 1968 Joni concert recording In a message dated Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:46:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, James Elliott Benjamin writes: > Does anyone know anything about (or anyone else have) the recording of a Joni > performance made into a CD called "By the Banks of the River Charles?" I just > found it at a second-hand CD store; it says "recorded live from 'Club 47', > Cambridge, MA, Jan. 1968," and it includes four unreleased songs—Gift of the > Magi, Vali, Come to the Sunshine, and The Way It Is.>> James, I just got a copy of this last week. The quality of the recording is very good. The entire set list is as follows: Cactus Tree Night In The City The Gift of The Magi (really pretty I think) I Had a King Morning Morgantown Ballerina Valerie (I think this is what you were referring to as "Vali") Song To A Seagull Both Sides Now Conversation Come to the Sunshine (also very nice) Chelsea Morning The Pirates of Penance (not a lot of recordings of this tune, so it's good to hear it) The Way it is (Not the Bruce Hornsby tune, this was written for a Canadian TV show but they didn't use it. And you can see why when you hear it, a very cumbersome tune with almost unsingable intervals. It does not rest easy on the ear). The Dawntreader And, as always, I'm glad to dupe this one for whoever wants it...send a blank 90 min. cassete (if you're still into those things ;~D) or a blank 74-min CD (make sure it says "Music" or "Audio" on it, and send along with an SASE to: Bob Muller 309 West Prentiss Ave. Greenville, SC 29605 (Where the spirit of giving lives on!) :~) Of course, if you have Joni stuff to trade, that'd be great...after all, how do you think I GET all this cool stuff in the first place? Bob NP: The Cure "Pictures of You" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 17:59:09 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: WAS:Joni's VIVID story from PWWAM now NJC Martin mentions: >a drop greater than the CNN tower >(CNN? - the big one in Toronto). It's the CN Tower (Canadian National, named after one of our railways who also do (or did?) telecommunications. Man, is it ugly! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 13:14:40 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Twisted Christmas Songs NJC Here's another way of looking at some carols (sent to me by a friend on the e-mail jokevine): > A selection of carols for your dysfunctional friends: > > SCHIZOPHRENIA: > Do you Hear What I Hear? > > MULTIPLE PERSONALITY DISORDER: > We Three Queens Disoriented Are > > DEMENTIA: > I Think I'll Be Home for Christmas > > NARCISSISTIC: > Hark the Herald Angels Sing About Me > > MANIC: > Deck the Halls and Walls and House and Lawn and Streets and > Stores and Office and Town and Cars and Busses and Trucks and > Trees and Fire Hydrants and... > > PARANOID: > Santa Claus is Coming to Get Me. > > PERSONALITY DISORDER: > You Better Watch Out, I'm Gonna Cry, I'm Gonna Pout, > Maybe I'll tell you Why. > > DEPRESSION: > Silent Anhedonia, Holy Anhedonia, All is Flat, > All is Lonely.( Don't get upset. It means an insensitivity to >pleasure) > > OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE DISORDER: > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock, > Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell, Jingle Bell Rock ........ > ....(better start again) > > PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE PERSONALITY: > On the First Day of Christmas My True Love Gave to Me > (and then took it all away). > > BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER: > Thoughts of Roasting on an Open Fire. >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:23:49 -0500 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Happy Days Off (NJC) (now boiled guitar strings) > Paul said: > >boiled strings don't seem to > >last quite as long as new ones. > > > However, when served al dente with a little Parmesan cheese, they can be > delicious! > > > Catherine (in Toronto) > cateri@hotmail.com brilliant, no, stunning e-mail thread development - I wonder who'll use this quote in their novel first. I do hope you're writing one, Catherine. LOLing at the screen so that the dogs of the neighbourhood are now all howling. PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 17:30:31 +0000 From: Martin Giles Subject: Christmas songs Well, I'm an athiest, (so shoot me, as Colin would say!) So I'm not moved by any Christamas carols, although I did used to enjoy trying to sing Ding Dong Merrily On High for the Glor or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or or ororia bit! Most pop Christmas songs pass me by for the same reasons as the carols do, particularly recently as it has become another area to exploit commercially. Bah. Humbug. Christmas for me is about getting together with family, and also perhaps with friends that I normally don't get to see for the rest of the year. There are two or three Joni songs that refer to Christmas and so they will do me as my choices.. River Chinese Cafe Facelift atb, Martin. In London. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 18:34:04 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Christmas music - yet another list (NJC) Wally K says: >sorry but i can't let bob take all the potshots. >let there be no mistaking: i am the biggest messiah hater on earth. >even >the "Hallelujah" gives the creeps. > In response to Bob's: >I've had several folks send me private messages telling me that >they also detest the long, drawn-out full-blown Messiah, so I don't >mind >taking my lumps from the list! :~D > Has anyone noticed that so many people are reluctant to admit they *don't* like something? (which could result in a private message to someone who admits to not liking something). It's interesting to notice that often people are reluctant to admit they don't like something. Or to come out and say they *do* like something that someone else has just blasted. Take the topic of Cher that came up recently - - some people love her, others hate her. Just an observation but, anyone's opinion is as good as anyone else's. If someone flames you for expressing your opinion on something, does that make their opinion any better than yours? People seem to get so angry sometimes. Just wondering... Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 18:41:59 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: How about a WORST Christmas Carol list? (NJC) Harper Lou asks: >While we're at it, Anne, why don't we list our least favorite? > There are so many *terrible* recordings of Christmas music that it would be impossible to distill it down to the top-10 (or is that bottom 10?) all-time-worst-ever Christmas songs. Everybody and his dog seems to have done a Christmas album and most of them suck big-time. I'm not even going to attempt to list those I think are the worst, simply because there aren't that many that are good and most of those that are good are probably good mostly because we don't hear them very often (and therefore don't have time to get sick of them.) These are the songs I hate the most, no matter who records them: 1. "Good King Wenceslas" (God, what a boring song! The melody is just the same damn thing over and over again. Who cares about this pedantic old fart and his wimpy little page? Let's just lose this one forever. Anyway, the feast of Stephen is after Christmas - the only reason this gets into the "Christmas" category at all is because otherwise, no one would ever sing it (and this is a bad thing?) I suspect its writer had connections in the music industry, otherwise the thing would have been put out of its misery ages ago. 2. "Jingle Bells" - only acceptable if sung by children aged 6 or under. 3. "Deck The Halls" - spare me, Martha! Boring, boring, boring. Fa la la la la, and go away. 4. "Do they know it's Christmas?" Maybe it was a good idea at the time, but enough already. The song is a downer, no matter how well-intended it might have been. 5. "Rudolph, the red-nosed reindeer". This is a song written to go along with (or follow up on) a story that was written by a department store PR man. Need I say more? Did we need another reindeer? Nope - but someone in Marketing evidently thought so. 6. "Frosty the Snowman". Another one that's only OK if sung by children who don't have their 2 front teeth yet. Took a break there to sharpen my claws and fangs (yes, I am behind again) and while doing so, and trying to think of Christmas songs that I hate, read a few and concur with David and Anne on these 2, as sung or performed by anyone whatsover under any circumstances whatsover, whosoforth and ipso facto: 7. "The Little Drummer Boy". One of the all-time most annoying songs. What's with that Pa-rum-pum-pum-pum crappola? Where in the bible does it say there was a drummer boy anywhere near the manger? If there was, he'd have been kicked out for making too much noise. 8. "The 12 days of Christmas". Feels more like the 12 years in solitary Christmas to me. 'Nuff said. At one time, my mother had a copy of a "letter" that was supposed to have been written by the recipient of all these odd gifts. It was quite rude and quite funny. Too bad I don't have a copy or I'd share it with you. Time to pull the claws in, and get the fangs back inside my mouth where they belong. I've been drooling all over my keyboard and we don't need that, now, do we? Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:55:48 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: Christmas music - yet another list (NJC) Catherine observed: <> True, and it also seems to matter what you're blasting. Music lists in general blast on Michael Bolton and Jewel (who I like btw) and it doesn't generate much controversy. But when you level something which is held in very high esteem by many, and use very strong language in doing so (like I do when I get in full Bob-noxious mode), it can be offensive, and I can appreciate that. Criticism of Joni always draws lots of discussion here, and rightfully so...but like Joni said in Atlanta, "To each his (or her) own"... Personally, I'm not reluctant to defend artists who I think have merit, nor am I reluctant to blast something that I don't like. It makes for a livelier discussion. BUT I never want to send the message that "Anyone who likes (fill in the blank) is a moron and needs to have their head examined" or something like that. I recall the post by someone who was deeply moved by Barry Manilow's "Weekend In New England". I thought it was beautiful, and great that a songwriter/singer who takes it on the chin so often could be so special to someone. Bob NP: The Cure, "Disintegration" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:03:04 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: How about a WORST Christmas Carol list? (NJC) Catherine said about "The Feast of Stephen": <> But technically, Christmas (in the Christian calendar) STARTS on Dec. 25 and runs for 12 days (hence "The 12 Days of Christmas). Madison Ave. would have you believe Christmas starts on the day after Thanksgiving and ends after you open up gifts...gives you more time to spend plus they get all the sales in before year ending. Bob, who especially loved Jimmy's post about Christmas music and will carry it in his heart all month... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 19:11:58 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Joni in City Island, NY Emily said: >we started talking >and he explained that it wasn't a CD playing, but this >great radio station, WFUV, which is fordham university's >public radio. they have this great program "city folk" >and apparently play joni all the time. what's annoying >is that i've tried to tune in many times (90.7 FM) but >in brooklyn i just can't get it <> >i think it's so cool to play entire >albums on the radio! There used to be a lot of radio stations that played *different* kinds of music. That used to be pretty standard with FM stations. Here in Toronto, it was CHUM-FM that played all the album music and in the 60s and 70s, that's where you would hear people like Joni, and Steeleye Span, Frank Zappa and anyone else who wasn't mainstream or Top 10 - plus you'd hear whole albums, or bits of them, rather than the usual "hits" played elsewhere. Unfortunately, it seems most FM stations have gone to the "formula music/girly guile" type of music, or adult contemporary. There are a few stations around that play alternative-rock music and even though I don't listen to that kind of music all that often, it doesn't seem to have the eclectic range some of the old FM stations used to have. It seems more big-business driven than the old FM programs. Here in Toronto, one place where you hear something beyond the usual formula music is the University of Toronto's station (I think it's CIUT) but similar to your experience with Fordham, they don't seem to have the broadcast range or bandwidth or whatever you call it - it's hard to listen to once you're out of the city. Maybe because universities don't have the clout or the money to get the broader signals? And there are some stations around that do play different types of music, but not all the time. For example CBC Radio has jazz programs and other programs that play a broad range of music that you probably wouldn't hear anywhere else, but apart from that, you can go "up and down the dial, mercenary style" and hear the same thing everywhere. >one tiny irritance, however: the store owner said the same >old thing to me that i have to say i'm getting tired of >hearing, "how did someone your age get into joni mitchell?" >i'm 26 and frankly, i think that's kind of an inane question >to ask...but i hear it all the time! i usually give my >standard "she's such a great musician" answer but i think >this question must stem from so many people thinking of >JM only as a '60's folk singer...also, i was taught that >it's kind of rude to mention ANYONE'S age to them in terms >of making assumptions....oh well... You're right. It is rude. It also doesn't make a lot of sense. It's kind of like suggesting that anyone under the age of 70 shouldn't know about Billie Holiday. I'm sure she has been dead longer than most of us have been alive. Of course, ironically, most white people over 70 probably wouldn't know who she was either... Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:13:07 EST From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: Aimee Mann (NJC) In a recent post, Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 00:41:13 -0500 Jason Long wrote about Aimee Mann's new album and soundtrack music Thank you Jason! I don't get a chance to dig for music news much but I'm very grateful to hear your update on Aimee Mann - a much underrated and underexposed artist. My brother (who introduced me to her) said to me once (tongue in cheek) "do you think she could write songs if she found happiness?". I hope so, but it sounds like that hasn't happened yet. Also - apologies to Azeem (who I believe initiated the post) for not replying to your email & post about the UK JMDL gig - I'm a pretty much intermittent poster and reader of posts at the moment. My advice to anyone thinking of self-employment is: Don't run your own business AND work somewhere else AND....etc. David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:16:33 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: How about a WORST Christmas Carol list? (NJC) Wow Catherine! Look out there or you will be visited by three ghosts this Christmas... Didn't mean to make anyone have to bare their claws and fangs. I agree with you mostly -- the Frosty's and Rudolph's and other commercial type jingos don't do much for me, either. One time I did a Christmas show for kids. I was Santa's helper, so I had to learn all those cute ones. I never could work up the nerve to learn Frosty. Sure enough, some little tyke requested it right off the bat. I told him, "I Killed Frosty." Oh, the look of sadness in his eyes was too much, so I've done it every year since without complaining. Funny though, I think Good King Wenceslaus is a great melody. And I like Twelve Days of Christmas, too, because it's fun to sing. But then, as a harpist and theatrical musician, Christmas is my big time. This year, I have 77 gigs, last year it was about 74. So I've learned to appreciate almost every one of the tunes because each one pays the rent in its own special way. However, if I am ever required to sing "Simply Having a Wonderful Christmas Time" by Paul McCartney, I will immediately sell the harps and pianos and take a job in construction. Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 19:34:31 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Favourite Christmas songs 2.0 (NJC) >Okay, so now what's everybody's favorite Hanukkah song? I can only think >of three: Rock of Ages, that one that goes Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel, and >the Adam Sandler song (!) > The Dreidel song is about the only one I've ever heard of. There's another one called "The Candles of Hanukkah", I think. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 19:40:47 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Top Canadians of the millenium Wally said: >i've just voted for joni [that wasn't difficult. glenn gould spoiled >his >recordings by humming along as he played and that makes me VERY >NERVOUS]. Well, you're right. They never could get him to shut up. He was always mumbling and humming as he played. Asking him to stop didn't work, so they tried all kinds of techniques by placing mikes and muffling equipment in different places while they were recording, but you can still hear him. It must have been straaaange seeing him perform live! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 19:59:02 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Favourite Christmas Songs NJC >And, also, I'm not ashamed to say that I love Rolf Harris singing "Six >White Boomers". > Is Rolf Harris the same guy who did "Tie my kangaroo down"? That was a biiig hit years ago! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:01:00 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Latin Music NJC >Eric Taylor wrote: > > > I've really enjoyed this debate on Latin music & can't wait to > > hear some of the recommended music. > >and Steve Dulson posted the lyrics to 'Gaudete'. > And PaulC replied: Quod Erat Demonstrandum. The JMDL works! > To which I would add: De gustibus et moribus non est disputandem. And: Semper ubi sub ubi. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:12:07 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: "Grinch/Scrooge-like" - NJC Raffaele says: >It goes beyond my English-American-slang-language knowledge what > >"Grinch/Scrooge" really is, but it doesn't sound nice, does it? The Grinch - a character in a book by Dr Seuss "How the Grinch stole Christmas". This was also made into a 30-minute cartoon (or 30 minutes including commercials!) in the late 60s or early 70s featuring the voice of Boris Karloff as the Grinch. This animated special is still one of the best animated Christmas films ever made (that and a Charlie Brown Christmas). The Grinch is a grouchy character who "hated Christmas, the whole Christmas season/Now please don't ask why - no one quite knows the reason". He disguises himself as Santa Claus and, in the middle of the night, goes around stealing all Christmas decorations and anything remotely Christmas-like from the Whos down in Who-ville, hoping to get rid of Christmas forever. He is amazed the next morning to hear the Whos singing and realizes that Christmas isn't just about presents and toys - it's in people's hearts. The Grinch is then transformed into a nice guy - his heart grows three sizes that day. Scrooge is Ebenzer Scrooge from Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" - the guy who is a miserable old miser who, like the Grinch, hates Christmas because it means he has to give his employees a day off work and so on. He is visited by the ghost of his old partner Marley (not Bob!) who warns him about his miserly ways. He is then visited by the ghosts of Christmas Past, Present and Future who show him his life as it is and as it will be if he continues in his ways. This is one of my all-time favourite Christmas stories. It has been made and remade into innumerable film, TV and animated versions, and I can watch any of them - including the Mr Magoo and Muppet versions, and the extremely funny "Scrooged" with Bill Murray over and over and over again. I love that story! They're both characters who are miserable and unloving who undergo major transformations, and the reader reading the book or the person watching the film, undergoes a similar transformation in the process. When the story is done, you kind of want to go "Aaaaaahhhh" - both stories, IMO, put things back into perspective. So, although we associate these characters with miserliness, grouchiness and the antithesis of what the Christmas spirit is supposed to be all about, the important thing is - these characters change. So, there's hope for all of us. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:28:43 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni in City Island, NY Catherine McKay wrote: > > > There used to be a lot of radio stations that played *different* kinds of > music. That used to be pretty standard with FM stations. Here in Toronto, > it was CHUM-FM that played all the album music and in the 60s and 70s, > that's where you would hear people like Joni, and Steeleye Span, Frank Zappa > and anyone else who wasn't mainstream or Top 10 - plus you'd hear whole > albums, or bits of them, rather than the usual "hits" played elsewhere. So right, Catherine. That was when "alternative" meant what it wasn't, not what it was. I used to listen to CHUM-FM in Buffalo, and summers in Crystal Beach just to hear them play Joni. I first heard her on CHUM-FM singing Night In the City. It blew me away right from the start, and I had to go to Toronto to get the album. 30 or more years later, here I am, still lovin' Joni. Jerry np: Dave Matthews Band - Listener Supported ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:30:41 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: How about a WORST Christmas Carol list? (NJC) Bob says: >But technically, Christmas (in the Christian calendar) STARTS on >Dec. 25 >and runs for 12 days (hence "The 12 Days of Christmas). That's true, but I still hate Wenceslas, good king or no! Anyone ever notice how many Christmas trees are tossed the day after Christmas? There's someone in my neighbourhood who put their Christmas tree up (the one INSIDE the house) a week ago. I presume it's not a real one! >Madison Ave. would have you believe Christmas starts on the day >after >Thanksgiving and ends after you open up gifts...gives you more time to >spend plus they get all the sales in before year ending. > Do you mean Canadian Thanksgiving (2nd Mon in October) or American Thanksgiving? ;) Usually around here, the Christmas stuff is out on Nov 1 - right after Hallowe'en. This year, I saw it out even earlier. >Bob, who especially loved Jimmy's post about Christmas music and >will >carry it in his heart all month... I, being somewhat of a cynic, must say that I envy and admire anyone who can get so much joy out of anything. I wish I could be like Jimmy. There's too much darkness in my soul, but I appreciate people who aren't like me! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:38:30 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: How about a WORST Christmas Carol list? (NJC) Lou said: >Didn't mean to make anyone have to bare their claws and fangs. I enjoy baring claws and fangs. I was simply having a wonderful... what??? Oh yeah, don't say that. Don't say that. Don't say that. > >One time I did a Christmas show for kids. I was Santa's helper, so I had >to >learn all those cute ones. I never could work up the nerve to learn >Frosty. >Sure enough, some little tyke requested it right off the bat. I told him, >"I Killed Frosty." Oh, the look of sadness in his eyes was too much, so >I've done it every year since without complaining. And rightly so, you mean creature. If this kid ends up a psycho killer one day, they may hear him say, as he's dragged screaming off to the nearest forensic unit: "He killed Frosty! He killed Frosty!" And only you will know what he means... Despite my disparaging remarks, I know how much kids love those songs and they're easier for them to learn and understand than most of the Christian music. My son is very proud of being able to play Jingle Bells on the piano (one note at a time) and if it makes him happy... > >Funny though, I think Good King Wenceslaus is a great melody. And I like >Twelve Days of Christmas, too, because it's fun to sing. You'll never get me to agree to Wencie. I do a silly version of the 12 days of Christmas with my kids - we overdo the singing in some parts, trying to make it sound like some operatic diva wannabe and it's a lot of fun. (The e-mail I sent AFTER my grouch one does specifically say that I like ANY Christmas music done on the harp - and that was without any coaching from you!) Enjoy your Christmas gigs - it sounds like a lot of fun. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:59:18 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Christmas music - yet another list (NJC) Bob said: >Personally, I'm not reluctant to defend artists who I think have >merit, >nor am I reluctant to blast something that I don't like. It >makes for a >livelier discussion. > >BUT I never want to send the message that "Anyone who likes (fill in >the >blank) is a moron and needs to have their head examined" or >something like >that. I agree with you. Despite some of my snarky remarks, I recognize that, even when I don't particularly appreciate a particular person's talent, I would hate like heck to run them down - if we all liked the same thing, what would we talk about? It's a lot easier to be a critic than to take the risk of getting out there and performing (or expressing an opinion that someone else might not agree with, for that matter.) >I recall the post by someone who was deeply moved by Barry Manilow's > >"Weekend In New England". I thought it was beautiful, and great that >a >songwriter/singer who takes it on the chin so often could be so >special to >someone. > There's a Manilow LP somewhere in my basement, OK? A lot of people put him down, but if you were going to come up with a list of really bad artists, I certainly wouldn't put him there. And I do think he has a very pleasant voice, so, even if I'm not a big fan of his, I certainly don't dislike him. And people are always dissing the BeeGees. OK, so they went disco in the 70s, but they transformed themselves several times and IMO, they did a good job of it. Like any other form of music, there's good disco and bad disco and I think the BeeGees did good disco. I like a lot of the stuff they did before they went disco. They wrote some fine songs and, even though they had many hits on their own, other artists also covered a lot of their stuff. I suspect that a lot of the people who put them down aren't aware of the stuff they did earlier. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:27:37 -0600 (CST) From: michael w yarbrough Subject: RE: You make me feel like dancin' (NJC) Catherine wrote: > Like any other form of music, there's good disco and bad disco > and I think the BeeGees did good disco. I'm fond of some of the BeeGees' disco stuff, too, but the best disco was the black underground stuff that created a bandwagon for folks like them to jump on. Last Thanksgiving night I was lucky enough to hear Frankie Knuckles (who has as much a claim as the inventor of house as anyone) spin here in Chicago, and he pulled out a lot of this, supplementing it with his trademark booming 808. It was so, so great. My favorite moment was when the 95% black and 95% straight crowd threw their hands up at the opening strains of Sylvester's "You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real)." That unbridled celebration of a gay brother by a straight crowd was so touching, and a testament to the power of good disco. I have more to say on the subject, but for now I should go back to work... - --Michael - ----------------------------------------------------------- "How can I address you? Hey lover... Hi friend... How you doin'? Where you been? I gotta make a choice." - --Mary J. Blige, "Seven Days" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:52:51 -0600 From: evian Subject: Favorite and Worst Christmas songs (NJC) My favorite Christmas song would also have to be John and Yoko. So many memories with that one, it always touches me. I also love that Pogue's song, I can't think of the name, but I love it... although that dude's teeth give me the heebie-geebies. Madonna's remake of "Santa Baby" is also one that makes me smile. And as someone posted, the Charlie Brown Christmas is a must! I always get choked up watching it, God knows why, but it never fails to make me weepy. As for worst Christmas songs, this one is probably unique to Canada. Every Christmas, every frigging station seems to play Corey Hart's "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer", and let me tell you, it is the most annoying song ever recorded. And I mean, ANNOYING! They probably play it to satisfy Canadian content regulations, but I'd opt for silence. It's so horrible... and it is recorded live... and he sings it in the most annoying tone, with god-awful inflections in his voice. Purely hideous. Makes me really crabby whenever it comes on. Avoid it at all costs! Canadian friends, do you agree? Give me Anne Murray singing anything anyday over this! Evian P.S. and I also have to agree, Stevie Nick's "Silent Night" is horrible, even though it hurts me to admit it! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:18:04 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Millennium Countdown 39 Tom Petty    38 J.S. Bach    37 Jackson Browne    36 Janis Joplin    35 Paul McCartney    34 Miles Davis    33 The Doors    32 Neil Young    31 Buddy Holly Hey, Bobby Boy, can you come up with a link for Joni to Bach other than the London Symphony connection? ;-) Penny PS I didn't realize when I posted this the first time, that I'd be sending in the whole countdown. So this time there is only 9 artists listed to get on pace for the last three installments....30-21, 20-11, and finally 10-#1.   :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #540 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?