From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #534 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Sunday, November 28 1999 Volume 04 : Number 534 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Ricky Martin NJC ["Eric Taylor" ] NJC ??!! [catman ] Re: NJC Voilence against Women (now child abuse) [catman ] RE: NJC Neil Young's Harvest Moon ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: jonifest box set njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Top Canadians of the millenium [Deb Messling ] Re: More Lunacy Concerning Moon Names NJC ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Re: Toshi Reagon and Joni [Vince Lavieri ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #276 [Julian51469@aol.com] Re: Three on an Island NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: lhasa njc [Siresorrow@aol.com] Under The Covers - An Album Cover Story ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Re: Under The Covers - An Album Cover Story ["Kakki" ] Singing Ange NJC [Vince Lavieri ] RE: singing joni ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Under The Covers - An Album Cover Story ["Wally Kairuz" Subject: Ricky Martin NJC Interested in the latest music phenomenons I purchased Vuelve by Ricky Martin. Expecting a Latino version of David Cassidy I was pleasantly surprised by the depth & talent of this latest teen idol. After watching Ricky's TV special tonight (featuring Jose Feliciano & Carlos Santana) I tried to think of a similar musician. Tom Jones crossed my mind but actually we haven't seen a performer like this since Elvis. It REALLY pisses me off that Ricky has been labeled *Gay* by talk show hosts & gossip columnist simply because he is exceptionally good looking & has THE GIFT of moving his body to the music. Perhaps this is a feeble compliment to gay men by stiff straights. All I know is that I'm SO happy to see Latin music be appreciated! This is what I've always loved about the musical influences of Paul Simon & Pat Metheny. E.T. NP: La Copa De La Vida ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 10:53:32 +0000 From: catman Subject: NJC ??!! A man is mowing his lawn. A man from nextdoor comes out to his mail box, looks in it, slams it shut and goes back in. A few minutes later, the neighbour does this again, goes to his mailbox looks in and slams it shut, angry. The third time he does this, the man mowing his lawn asks his neighbour what is wrong. 'my computer keeps saying 'you've got mail''! - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 11:15:05 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC Voilence against Women (now child abuse) Ginamu@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/25/1999 8:36:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, > catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: > > << I sometimes feel when i see yet another program or article about > battered women or battered men or how some group or other is treated badly > that > people are so obsessed with their own stuff they forget about the children >> > > It's interesting you say this because the battered women's movement in this > country has been severely criticized precisely for this reason and rightfully > so, in my opinion. I was just having a conversation with a coworker who for > many years worked as a child advocate at a local battered woman's shelter and > she discussed how it's only been in the last couple of years that attention > has been paid by the women's shelter/feminist movements to the issues of how > violence affects children even if they are not the ones being beaten. Child > advocates have been fighting to keep children's issues on par with women's in > situations of battering, as they really do not have a voice or the political > support that women have been able to garner in this area. As unpopular as this may be, those battered women often also batter their children or abuse them in some other way.Unfortunately abuse of children is mostly seen as a male thing when it is not. It is both a male and a female thing. A recent statistic showed that the majority of children under four years of age who were taken to the ER were there as a result of what a woman had done to them, usually the mother. The sexual abuse of children by women is also common. However, becuase women are didpicted as nurturers in this society, the fact they also abuse is not faced up to. The fact that a woman stays with an abusive man, at the expense of the children, should not be so easily excused. There is always a choice, even if the choice is between a rock and a hard place. Children unfortunate;ly are not seen as totally human yet. Their feelings are not considered important. 'they will get over it' is the common theme. I am often appalled when the SS take a child away from foster parents that it has lived with since a baby 'for the childs own good' because they have found a same race family or whatever. They obviously don't care about the effect this has on the child. The feelings of the adults or the ideology of the SS are seen as more important. It is NOT ignorance because their is a wealth of knowledge regarding the effects of such things on children. Whenever this subject somes up in life or on this list, the lack of understanding displayed by otherwise kind and intelligent people is astounding. Which is why it is so important people do not forget what it is like to be a child. Of course the reason many forget what it was like to be a child is precisely because of the things we are talking about. Now the whole 'survivor' thing has taken on its own identity, has become just another catch phrase, just another label, just another peice of jargon. People hear the term and have no idea of its ramifications. 'oh they need therapy or treatment. then everything will be alright and we won't have to worry about such unpleasant things.' Therapy does NOT cure, nor does it wipe anything away or undo anything. It merely makes life more bearable and manageable, and then only if the 'treatment' is good. A child brought up with no boundaries, no security, little love and no self esteem, is not going to be able to gain those things later in life to the extent that it will be as if they had had it from birth. The damage remains, the losses remain lost. Recovery does not 'cure'. It is a coping mechanism. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:08:57 -0300 From: "Intagliata" Subject: RE: Joni's VIVID story from PWWAM - VERY LOOOONG Thank you Catherine for transcribing Joni's monologue from "Painting with Words and Music". I loved reading it. Am I the only Lister who's never seen Joni live? I want to see her so badly! Mariana, in Argentina a place Joni never visits ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:22:53 -0300 From: "Intagliata" Subject: NJC Neil Young's Harvest Moon De: Vince Lavieri Para: joni@smoe.org Fecha: Jueves, 25 de Noviembre de 1999 07:41 a.m. Asunto: harvest moon now JC >This whole thread has me confused: isn't Harvest Moon a marvelous album >by Neil Young? > Yes, it is. Harvest Moon was released in 1992 and it's really fantastic. Quiet Neil -no distorted guitars, no screaming. Mariana in Argentina ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:17:29 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC Neil Young's Harvest Moon mariana, you'll drop dead when you read this, but back in the early 70's there was a place in san telmo called jazz&pop where joni is said to have played a surprise set. i heard this from the club's owner, whose brain was totally fried but then he may have been telling the truth. i certainly saw a picture of joni playing at that place, way before computer tricks were available. BUT you never can tell. it's one of the legends of the local music scene, especially among jazz musicians over 50. joni had just been to brazil, so it's not totally impossible. BUT you never can tell. [have i said that already?] wallyk - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Intagliata Para: JMDL Enviado: Viernes 26 de Noviembre de 1999 14:22 Asunto: NJC Neil Young's Harvest Moon > > De: Vince Lavieri > Para: joni@smoe.org > Fecha: Jueves, 25 de Noviembre de 1999 07:41 a.m. > Asunto: harvest moon now JC > > >This whole thread has me confused: isn't Harvest Moon a marvelous album > >by Neil Young? > > > > > Yes, it is. Harvest Moon was released in 1992 and it's really fantastic. > Quiet Neil -no distorted guitars, no screaming. > > Mariana > in Argentina > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:50:08 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Ricky Martin NJC eric, i have a hard time considering ricky martin's music authentically latin. it's more like a miami kind of thing to me, a male gloria stefan. he is too american to be latin except in an american way. latin american music happens further south IM[never humble]O wallyk - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Eric Taylor Para: JMDL Enviado: Sábado 27 de Noviembre de 1999 06:39 Asunto: Ricky Martin NJC > Interested in the latest music phenomenons I purchased Vuelve by Ricky > Martin. Expecting a Latino version of David Cassidy I was pleasantly > surprised by the depth & talent of this latest teen idol. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 10:19:18 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: jonifest box set njc i've just discovered the credits! DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH! wally - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Kakki Para: Wally Kairuz ; jmdl Enviado: Viernes 26 de Noviembre de 1999 22:51 Asunto: Re: jonifest box set njc > That's our very own Marcel. (He's credited on my box set - not on yours, > Wally?) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 09:46:06 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Top Canadians of the millenium If you care to, stuff the ballot for Joni at CBC's top-Canadian-musician of the millenium poll: http://cbc.ca/millennium/castyourvote/index.html Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 11:20:27 -0500 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: More Lunacy Concerning Moon Names NJC Here is the list from the Farmer's Almanac. It pretty well matches what you posted except for April January Wolf Moon February Snow Moon March Worm Moon April Pink Moon May Flower Moon June Strawberry Moon July Buck Moon August Sturgeon Moon September Harvest Moon October Hunter's Moon November Beaver Moon December Cold Moon There's more info at this web site. http://www.isr.co.jp/mirror/tnp/psc/fullmoons.html and some of the links give more detail. CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/26/1999 1:33:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, > gmock@psyber.com writes: > > << the ute calendar, which corresponds to our julian calendar, was based on > the > 28-day cycle of the moon. the names they chose for the lunar phases > reflected their awareness of the changing seasons that affected the patterns > of their lives. > january, the cold moon, Moon after Yule > february, the snow moon, Wolf Moon, Hunger Moon > march. the green moon, Quikening Moon, Storm Moon, Sap Moon > april, moon of the plants, Wind Moon, Grass Moon > may, moon of the flowers, Planting Moon > june, the hot moon, Strong Sun Moon > july, the trout moon, Blessing Moon, Honey Moon > august, moon of the deer, Corn Moon, Thunder Moon > september, fruit moon, Harvest Moon, Grain Moon > october, traveling moon, Blood Moon, *Hunter's Moon* > november, beaver moon, Mourning Moon, Frosty Moon > december, Moon Befor Moon, Long Nights Moon > > I added to this...this is what i found in my book. > Catgirl > hope all you guys had a nice thanksgiving, gene >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 12:00:29 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Falafel - was Eating at MacDonalds - NJC OK now IM hungry and Im NEVER hungry. I feel compelled to direct all JMDL members to the single most delicious food object in the western hemisphere. It is to be found in an unlikely place Los Hermanos Mexican Kitchen on Chestnut Street (by Fillmore) in SF,CA. It is called The Super Vegetarian Burrito. It consists of a single Chile Relleno INSIDE a delicious vegetarian burrito. Now the name is misleading because one would expect a vegetarian anything to be non-fattening but it does contain refried beans and sour cream (a must) along with everything else that is fresh and wonderful. The taste of this dish is never to be forgotton and I know of no other restaraunt that even makes such a dish. The place is a take out with about four small tables so there is always a long line outside the place to get in just to order and take out. I must warn you that if you order it they cook it from scratch on the spot and so if you order it it takes some time for it to be made. ie the people behind you in line will be cranky because your order is taking too long. DONT WORRY. Take the heat. Its worth it. The ground outside this place frequently has several customers laying on the sidewalk unable to move from eating the whole thing. Im kidding. marcel deste. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 11:27:11 -0600 From: evian Subject: Joni's VIVID story from PWWAM - (now njc) > It is a Canadian/American dig, but not for the reason you say. I've since > found out there's a town named Minot in North Dakota (the way Joni says it, > it sounds like MinOOT). It's pretty typical of Canadians to make those kind > of remarks > If you went to Minot on any given day before the dollar fell so low a few years ago, you would see more Saskatchewan and Manitoban people than North Dakotans. It was almost creepy. We used to go quite often, even though it was a 9 hour drive (but hey, ya gotta take advantage of cheap cigarettes and American beer and all the cool products the States has to offer...my car would literally be piled to the roof with stuff and you wouldn't BELIEVE the things I'd bring back), and it would never fail that you would run into practically everyone you knew. The mall parking lot was completely filled with Canadian cars, and the hotels were always booked and most took Canadian money on par. Actually, it is a pretty nice place, although they appear to be so conservative that I am sure that they would drive me nuts after a while. This was also the place where I saw the patriotism of Americans. We visited some friends in Minot for the 4th of July, and we went to some parking lot where people were doing all these freaky things with firecrackers, and it scared the hell out of us...And nearly every house has a flag hanging, which was just so totally odd to me, since you hardly ever see that in Canada. I can remember whispering to my friend "there are flags everywhere, what's up with that?" Since this was during the Bush years, I was quite baffled at the patriotism (forgive me, Republicans!). Anyway, just thought I'd ramble a bit on the Minot thang! Evian, who is SOOO mad at McDonald's for screwing up my order the other night that I phoned and got a free meal... God help me, I am turning into my father. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 19:11:04 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Toshi Reagon and Joni Marion Coiman wrote: > Hello...I'm new at this, so bear with me. Welcome to our Joni family! My hope is that you can bear with us! We are a rather wacky extended family! > I have always > loved a Hispanic folk singer whose name is Soledad Bravos, and a Greek > singer called Nana Mouskouri. ... I think these > three would be my choices if I were stranded on an island. > > Marion > and Marion was replying to: > singer Toshi Reagon (daughter of Bernice Johnson Reagon of Sweet Honey in > the Rock) who just released a album, 'The Righteous Ones." asked to name > three artists whose music she'd want if stranded on a desert island, she > replied, her mother's, and Bob Marley, and Joni Mitchell. > If it were only three, that would be tough: Joni, Janis Joplin, and the Beatles for me. If I got to pick for Bob Muller, it would be George Fredric Handel, Mrs. George Fredric Handel, and George Fredric Handel, Jr. Just so he'd get to learn to love the Messiah... (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 19:50:22 EST From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #276 In a message dated 11/27/99 3:03:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, Catherine in Toronto writes: << My first thought was sandbags - flood. Then I thought it was possibly a Civil War reenactment of some kind? (Was ND involved in the Civil War? Did it exist as a state at the time? Maybe it was a 4th of July kind of thing and the woman thought it was for real?) I think the woman was older, but not that old (like over 100). On the other hand, maybe she was just nutty! All other evidence seems to suggest that she was a bit, uh, different. >> ....or maybe it was the National Guard or USArmy hunkering down to shoot some hippy radicals or uprising "negroes." You know, the kind of thing that the powers- that-be liked to do back in the 60's....Just a possibility. Julian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 19:52:06 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Three on an Island NJC Rev. Vince writes: << If it were only three, that would be tough: Joni, Janis Joplin, and the Beatles for me. If I got to pick for Bob Muller, it would be George Fredric Handel, Mrs. George Fredric Handel, and George Fredric Handel, Jr. Just so he'd get to learn to love the Messiah... (the Rev) Vince >> Rev, it's starting to get cold in your neck of the woods and you're walking on thin ice. When Bob M. gets back from his long weekend, he's gonna give you an e-mail whoopin. I already promised him that I would never mention Handel or the "M" word ever again. (not until Jonifest anyway) :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 19:51:38 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: lhasa njc In a message dated 11/26/99 4:00:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, r_malanga@hotmail.com writes: << t's really frustrating trying to describe music (and it's more frustrating when you're doing it in a language which is not yours!). >> i hear you here. fortunately, english is my natural languange and most people speak it. I have two thoughts. one. yesterday i was in a barnes an nobles in north carolina and a french man asked the question..."ouwhere is the livre on Renoir". Being a southerner, I can say this...the redneck at the counter said in a demeaning way, " i don't understand a single word you saaayed!!" and the french man stood there for a minute. then, i got pissed and was going to say something but the french man said, " tees ezz becauuuse youuu rrrrr nottttt Franchhhe!!! But he screamed it so loud the whole store stopped, and that was really cool. and the redneck knew he had been a jerk. two. describing music. it can be done, but it takes a lot of metaphor. so say i was going to describe the difference between eric clapton and carlos santana to some one who has never heard either one. i might say, carlos is fluid. his music moves in a peaceful way, with joy and energy. some dischord, but more peace rides in his sound. speed is there, as long as it is fluid. and the latino element is very clear, but the rock element is even more clear. carlos is a rock and roller, with a very easy passage to his sound. eric too is a rock and roller, but he holds more anger in his sound. explosive. rapid. not fluid. freezing. in a state of change. never constant. more a yearning than a sense of joy. hope. but frustration. pain. humility. confidence. it can be done, but you have to feel the music. pat ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 02:13:16 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Under The Covers - An Album Cover Story Hi there, Christmas is coming real early this year! Late October we had the new album by CSN&Y and a couple of weeks ago I received a preview copy on video of "Under The Covers - An Album Cover Story by Gary Burden & Henry Diltz"! This excellent 90 minute movie will eventually be released on both DVD and video sometime next year, but first The Learning Channel will air the documentary on February 26, 2000. The movie is jam-packed with interviews and old archive material ( most of it never seen before! ) by such artists as America, Jackson Browne, CSN&Y, Doors, Eagles, Joni Mitchell, Poco, Jimmy Webb and others. Be sure not to miss this beautiful documentary, as it is by far the most impressive music documentary I've seen in several years! You should also check out Henry and Gary's website at : http://www.henrysgallery.com Take care, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 19:52:39 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: singing joni From: "Takats, Angela" Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 10:34:58 +1100 Hey Listers, Just thought I'd share the fact I am doing my first solo joni gig tonight at a little vegetarian restaurant that has live music every Sunday night. It will be the first time I perform all her songs with de-tunings. It's very informal and I doubt many people will even show up...but it is exciting. My set looks like this: Chelsea Morning BYT Cactus Tree Midway Peoples Parties You Turn Me On Both Sides Now (And three of my own songs...) I sure hope I don't stuff up.... - - Ange Sydney (PS. if it wasn't for the joni website and guitar pages, this performance wouldn't be possible - THANKS guys!!) This message boun_ced on it's way to Joniland - usually a result of the address from which it came not matching *exactly* any subscriber's address. If this message is from you, contact me so we can resolve the problem. -Les. - ------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 21:42:41 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Under The Covers - An Album Cover Story Lucky, lucky Peter wrote: > I received a preview copy on video of "Under The Covers - > An Album Cover Story by Gary Burden & Henry Diltz"! > > This excellent 90 minute movie will eventually be released > on both DVD and video sometime next year, but first The > Learning Channel will air the documentary on February 26, > 2000. > > The movie is jam-packed with interviews and old archive > material ( most of it never seen before! ) by such artists > as America, Jackson Browne, CSN&Y, Doors, Eagles, > Joni Mitchell, Poco, Jimmy Webb and others. If it's even close to the CD-Rom Under The Covers, it should be a knock-out. Every person on the Joni List should get this video and the CD-Rom - they are "must-haves"- especially for those who are obsessive tape collectors like me. I finally got it a few weeks ago and it is absolutely fantastic. It's worth getting for the Joni content alone - beautiful, previously unseen shots of Joni inside "Our House" in Laurel Canyon and as you are viewing the photos a small video screen of Graham Nash pops up and talks about it, and there is a little Joni-ish music playing in the background. Similar surprises happen with the other artists featured, including Dan Fogelberg, Jackson Browne, CSNY, the Eagles and more. There are also very cute watercolor maps of the Sunset Strip, Laurel Canyon, the Beach, the Desert and other SoCal environs where the gang hung out. When you click on the various locations it zooms you in to the artist who lived or played there. The map of Laurel Canyon shows where everyone lived (mostly on Lookout Mountain Avenue) and here's another Zappa connection - he lived just a few doors down from Joni ;-) It's like going on a magical mystery tour down Alice's rabbit hole and just about the neatest thing I've ever seen. When I met Henry Diltz and his friends they were very excited about all the new photos that have been unearthed and will be included in the upcoming special and video. Thanks for the update, Peter - can't wait to see it! Kakki > http://www.henrysgallery.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 01:19:58 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Singing Ange NJC > From: "Takats, Angela" > Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 10:34:58 +1100 > > Hey Listers, > Just thought I'd share the fact I am doing my first solo joni gig tonight at > a little vegetarian restaurant that has live music every Sunday night. It > will be the first time I perform all her songs with de-tunings. It's very > informal and I doubt many people will even show up... Ange, we would all show up if we were close by! Good luck and tell us how it went! (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 03:37:04 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: singing joni dear ange, best of luck! wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 03:36:06 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Under The Covers - An Album Cover Story good grief! thanks for reminding me! i got this cd-rom at ashara's and i still haven't looked at it! jaded jaded wallyK - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Kakki Para: ; Enviado: Domingo 28 de Noviembre de 1999 02:42 Asunto: Re: Under The Covers - An Album Cover Story > Every person on the Joni List should get this video and the CD-Rom - they > are "must-haves"- > Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #534 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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