From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #519 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, November 18 1999 Volume 04 : Number 519 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni: the long and short [catman ] Re: Come In From The Cold NJC [catman ] Re: Come In From The Cold NJC [catman ] Re: Come In From The Cold NJC [catman ] Re: Come In From The Cold/Night Ride Home [Winfried Huehn ] Re: Cumberland Island...long....(NJC) [Siresorrow@aol.com] joni screensavers ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] RE: Come In From The Cold NJC [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Come In From the Cold NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Joni: the long and short [Don Rowe ] NJCRe: Come In From The Cold/Night Ride Home [catman ] NJC: from Mother Theresa [catman ] Costing a Mint. And a half. ["Paul Castle" ] Refuge of the Roads video [Anne Sandstrom ] The "Dog Eat Dog" Musical Appreciation Society presents ... [Don Rowe ] Re: Ukeleles - was Costing a Mint. And a half. ["Kakki" ] Re: (NJC) Come In From The Cold ["Kakki" ] RE: Jimmy Webb - All I Know (NJC) [Martin Giles ] Re: Costing a Mint. And a half. NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Ukeleles - was Costing a Mint. And a half. ["Paul Castle" ] Your First MamogramNJC [catman ] ouch! NJC [catman ] Re: Jimmy Webb, Part 2 (NJC) [AzeemAK@aol.com] fans and fanatics [Kleronomos@aol.com] Re: fans and fanatics [catman ] Re: Refuge of the Roads video [Deb Messling ] Re: Your First Mamogram NJC [Deb Messling ] Re: fans and fanatics [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Lyrics [catman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:14:06 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni: the long and short Kakki wrote: > Julie asked: > > << Do you have a favorite Joni song that you wished went on longer? >> > The Sire Of Sorrow/Slouching..... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:13:23 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Come In From The Cold NJC Kakki wrote: > O.K. I know you all are going to guffaw and snicker but I'm also freezing > cold here, too. It's down in the 50s and I've had the furnace blasting all > night! I put on a coat when the temp. dips below 70 F. I understand that. Used to live in Austalia and when the temp dropped to 60-50 we wore coats and sweaters. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:14:14 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Come In From The Cold NJC Wally Kairuz wrote: > oh colin! i envy you so much! it's 28 celsius here at 10 pm, and it's only > november. i don't want to think what this is going to be like in january. > fortunately, i'll be somewhere in the northern hemisphere by then! > i really must love my jmdl family to distraction to consider going to new > orleans in late may. > wallyk I just knew I had spelt celsius wring! I am not so keen on heat either! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:14:11 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Come In From The Cold NJC > > > I wouldn't trade my hilltown existence for any other. Surrounded by lovely > hills and rivers, with three college towns within a 30 mile radius to keep us > on our toes culturally (chilly though they are) this is the spot for me. I'm > glad you're so much happier than you were in London and I understand exactly > why. But I *am* jealous of that king size bed! : } The bed is 6ft by 6ft 6" and wonderful!As for the cold-well my main concern is the new babies(week old today) and the ones due any day now. THEY have to be kept warm. We have a big duvet and snuggle under that. I love winter, it is my favourite time of year. All romantic and cosy. My hol in New England was a huge thrill as it was all covered in snow and ice. > > > Your American country counterpart, > Gina > NP: Martin Sexton - The American - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:21:05 +0100 From: Winfried Huehn Subject: Re: Come In From The Cold/Night Ride Home Kakki wrote: > O.K. I know you all are going to guffaw and snicker but I'm also freezing > cold here, too. It's down in the 50s and I've had the furnace blasting all > night! I put on a coat when the temp. dips below 70 F. > Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! Here in Goettingen, it's snowing like crazy at the moment! Kakki, and all the others who don't have real seasons, I don't really know whether I should envy you. I really enjoyed living in SoCal climate for one year. On the other hand, each season has its very own charm. In two weeks, the X-mas market will open on the city's historic market-square, and I'm already looking forward to going there after work with my friends and colleagues and drinking a glass of steaming hot mulled wine flavored with ginger and cinnamon, smelling all those wonderful christmas spices. NRH btw is an excellent winter record IMO. Being more upbeat than Hejira, it creates a relaxing and cozy atmosphere which quite well reflects that slower pace of wintertime life. I love to play it on lazy Sunday mornings. I just wish my small apartment had a fireplace! *sigh* On a personal note, I am right now employed at the local district court, where I'm being trained to become a judge. In Germany, everybody who wants to practice law has to go through this education, regardless of what the later profession will be. The idea is that every lawyer needs to know how courts work and reach their decisions. Next week I will have to write my first judgment proposal on a real-life case, which then will be discussed and evaluated by my supervising judge. For obvious reasons, I haven't written much recently. But I'm still around and reading the digests. I've read about Wally meeting Joni and I've looked at the picture at Wally's website. I wanted to say something, but there was no need to speak up and express my feelings -- you guys already said it so well and much better than I would have been able to. Wally, keep on hanging in there. You're a true inspiration for me and I'm sure for many others as well. Winfried in Goettingen, Germany ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 07:47:44 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Got it bad (NJC) Kakki admitted: <> I gotta laugh with you, Kakki...whenever I send interoffice e-mail about helmet deliveries or purchases for kayak parts, I'm always tempted to put an "NP" at the bottom of the message! :~) Bob NP: "Circle Game" from Gene Shay's studio, 1967, and Gene says "That's gonna be a classic"...:~) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:10:11 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Got it bad (NJC) Kakki writes: << I'm sitting here doing internet research for a case and sending the results to my work email address and just put NJC in the subject line. >> That is so funny Kakki! At work I was replying to an email from one of our insurance companies, and almost sent a CC to the JMDL. Of course yall might have found it more interesting than my usual posts. :-) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:11:53 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni: the long and the short Forgetful and invisible Evian said: <> "Twas I that said it! And in one of the interviews I have where Joni is talking about the song, she says she was reading about Beethoven and his frustrations as a composer, and she wanted to write him a "pep talk" (hence the subtitle "Ludwig's Tune"). Also, she probably wrote it to herself, at least subconciously...FTR deals with her sense of frustration at becoming a famous songwriter-celebrity... And back to the topic of Joni's song length, it's not necessarily a bad thing to leave your audience wanting more...there's a real art to that, as opposed to filling up a 75 minute disc with a lot of fluff or stretching out songs to incredibly boring lengths. (Refer to Oasis' "Be Here Now" for the most blatant example of this concept). Bob NP: Joni, "Melody In Your Name" (1967)...she starts, realizes she's tuned too low, re-tunes, pops a string, fixes it, starts again, great stuff!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:26:37 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: the long and the short (NJC) Bob writes: << it's not necessarily a bad thing to leave your audience wanting more...there's a real art to that, as opposed to filling up a 75 minute disc with a lot of fluff or stretching out songs to incredibly boring lengths. >> I know what you mean about songs that streeeeeeetch out to long. I still have the vinyl of Donna Summer where one side is filled with her song " Love to Love You Baby" . I believe there are about 23 climaxes in that song. (23 more than I care to hear) Jimmy nw : Gary Coleman on the Today Show talking about auctioning off his personal items on the internet. YIKES ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:27:04 EST From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Re: Bal. Val...I only wish In a message dated 11/18/99 3:05:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,Marian in Viena writes: << I only wish there were more Joni songs to tab. >> Has someone done the tabs to Ballerina Valerie (The Psychedelic Coke Commercial) yet? I think this tune seriously ROCKS!...and I'd love to be able to play it, but I really don't know the first thing about figuring out a song's open tuning configuration. This is one of the first unreleased songs that I heard of Joni's that made me leap out of my seat and "crank it up." This is a tune that I could imagine Michael Hedges wailing on or perhaps the Breeders, Ween or Pavement adding a dangerous electric touch to it. I'd do it if I only knew how. Anyone up for it? Julian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:35:11 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Nothing can be done (was Joni: the long and the short) evian said: >(Maybe because I am waiting impatiently for "Nothing Can Be >Done", even though I seem to be the only one who loves this song!) >Evian, who is not old, I'm told, but who really doesn't feel too >young.... I really love this song, especially the lyrics. It's a different kind of Joni song though because Larry Klein wrote the music (i'm pretty sure). Don't start, my heart is a smokin gun...and nothing can be done! Love it! sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ weekend email address: suemc16@webtv.net "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 14:30:22 +0100 From: "Lori REASON" Subject: Re[2]: Come In From The Cold NJC Hey, can't everybody wait until April when I will be passing through LA?? Lori, at -2C with snow on the ground. Yee-haa! Ski season is almost here. ____________________Reply Separator____________________ O.K. I know you all are going to guffaw and snicker but I'm also freezing cold here, too. It's down in the 50s and I've had the furnace blasting all night! I put on a coat when the temp. dips below 70 F. Catgirl wrote: >In Feb we are going to Las Vegas and then onward to LA. I think I would like to meet up with a few of >your Joni CA people while I am out there. Kakki, I will let you know the dates > and WE need to hook up and down some martinis!!! You got that right! Keep me posted on the dates. Paz will be also here in February, plus CSNY and Jimmy Webb will both be in concert then, too. ;-D Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:57:50 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Cumberland Island...long....(NJC) very nice story. you will be relieved to know now that the marshes around costal georgia do have alligators and snakes, even in the salt water, so your instincts were right on. my son just went on a field trip there last month and came home looking like you described,,,,coated in marsh muck and sand. but he was similing. pat ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:21:55 -0500 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: joni screensavers Hi all! I have been neglecting the list for a few weeks now! Last night I had 406 emails to sort through. One that caught my eye was the Ricky Lee Jones guy who offered the free Joni screensaver. I downloaded it and now my computer is making a sickening noise. It keeps running hard and then slowing down, almost making a groan. I was just wondering if anyone else experienced this after downloading that screensaver and if I should be worried. - -Jenny from CT ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:11:31 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: Come In From The Cold NJC It's winter here in Boston too. The pond I live on has ice on it! And I'm surprised to hear of other JMDLers who don't have central heating. I just finished putting in heat in my house last year (I ran a lot of the duct work myself - nasty job crawling in a tiny crawl space under the house!) Stay warm - maybe a rousing rendition of Dreamland will help? Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:19:22 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Come In From the Cold NJC All of you shivering people should come down to S.W. Florida. It's not even noon yet, and the temperature is 75 degrees. It's beautiful right now, but I wish yall would send us some of your cold weather. I'm tired of looking at my 60 year old secretary dressed in her shorts and tube top. :~{) Jimmy NP - Fiona Apple "When the Pawn Hits the Conflicts He Thinks Like a King What He Knows Throws the Blows When He Goes to the Fight And He'll Win the Whole Thing 'Fore He Enters the Ring There's No Body to Batter When Your Mind Is Your Might So When You Go Solo, You Hold Your Own Hand and Remember the Depth Is the Greatest of Heights and If You Know Where You Stand, Then You Know Where to Land and If You Fall It Won't Matter, Cuz You'll Know that You're Right ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:01:21 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni: the long and short Okay, here's what we'll do ... we get Joni to tour with two different bands -- maybe The Heartbreakers would be one. They could play all the numbers we want shorter. For the extended cuts, maybe Moody Blues -- Kakki would get her symphonic "Judgement", and what they boys couldn't do to transform the "Hejira" songs into magnum opus masterpieces. Hey, it could happen! Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:21:09 +0000 From: catman Subject: NJCRe: Come In From The Cold/Night Ride Home Winfried-the best Xmas' I ever had were in Germany. Always snowing and loads od it. Sledding on Bismark Hill. Have very fond cold memories of Germany. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:31:55 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Come In From The Cold NJC Actually Anne, we probably will stay without central heating becuase it is better for the dogs not to have it. Okay puppies need to be kept warm for the first 14 days cos they are not good at producing their own. Yes, I know some people think it is weird to put the animals first but we do. We bought a long setee and a huge bed so that they have room. It won't be long before we need another setee! There is nothing nicer than cudlling up in front of tv and having a nice warm tongue licking your feet or ear. Anne Sandstrom wrote: > It's winter here in Boston too. The pond I live on has ice on it! > > And I'm surprised to hear of other JMDLers who don't have central heating. I > just finished putting in heat in my house last year (I ran a lot of the duct > work myself - nasty job crawling in a tiny crawl space under the house!) > > Stay warm - maybe a rousing rendition of Dreamland will help? > > Anne - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:34:40 +0000 From: catman Subject: NJC: from Mother Theresa DO IT ANYWAY > > ~~~ > People are often unreasonable, illogical, > and self-centered; > Forgive them anyway. > > If you are kind, People may accuse you > of selfish, ulterior motives; > Be kind anyway. > > If you are successful, you will win some > false friends and some true enemies; > Succeed anyway. > > If you are honest and frank, > people may cheat you; > Be honest and frank anyway. > > What you spend years building, someone > could destroy overnight; > Build anyway. > > If you find serenity and happiness, > they may be jealous; > Be happy anyway. > > The good you do today, > people will often forget tomorrow; > Do good anyway. > > Give the world the best you have, > and it may never be enough; > Give the world the best you've got anyway. > > You see, in the final analysis, > it is between you and God; > It was never between you and them anyway - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:52:37 -0500 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Costing a Mint. And a half. Anne asandstrom@allaire.com wrote: > .....the plastic ukelele with the catgut strings that were red, green, > yellow, and black. (Yup, I actually tuned it to something like open G > and played my own versions of chords on it - just playing by ear... > gee I wonder if Joni's early experience with ukelele was similar ;-) > I guess maybe that early experience explains a lot... Another synchronicity - I've just had my grandmother's old ukelele restored by Peter, my piano-playing carpenter friend. Does anyone know who Joni is referring to when she sings 'the ukelele man' in 'Night Ride Home'? Hula girls And caterpillar tractors in the sand The ukulele man The fireworks This 4th of July Night ride home I read that she started playing on a ukelele herself, as did Pete Seeger and Eric Clapton and a whole load of others whose names I am yet to collect. My Granny, who taught me, used to play in English music hall and concert party as a professional ukelele player - I remember as a tiny child being taken to a small seaside theatre in Swanage where my gran was one of the acts in Summer season there. Her main claim to fame was a song called "I'm a Busy Bee" which, my mother says, she taught to Arthur Askey (a famous British 'chirpy chappy' comedian and entertainer). Apparently, although I never saw this, she would come on dressed as a bee and sing this Busy Bee Song and people from the audience would bring honey jars and put them on the stage for her. She was also known for her spectacular right-hand finger roll (I've never been able to come close). When I saw her at Swanage I must have been about six or seven - but I still clearly remember the pianist asking for requests from the audience - and I shouted out (shyly) for "The Yellow Rose of Texas". I remember the audience laughing at me - and me thinking - 'I don't care, that's a great song'. I recently wrote to another list bemoaning the fact that you can't seem to get a good quality ukelele in any of the main music stores in the UK - all cheapo stuff, like the Sears guitar mentioned. The wife of Canadian singer Garnet Rogers posted that when Garnet was 10 he had been taken to a Bob Dylan concert and spent months afterwards working on a 10 minute version of 'Desolation Row' on his ukelele. Also, a guy from the American music store, Elderly Instruments, posted saying that they had some great new and vintage ukes in stock at the moment. The best and most useful bit of knowledge that my Gran gave to me was how to tune a Ukelele - singing the notes as "My-Dog-Has-Flees" as in My = A5 (on my keyboard, anyway) Dog = D4 Has = F#4 Flees = B5 and my first song - like a one-fingured G shape to a D7 shape on the top four strings of a guitar: It ain't a gonna rain no more no more Ain't a gonna rain no more So how in the hell can the old folks tell Ain't a gonna rain no more Great song! Now, if you can find a recording of Joni singing this when she was 8, I'll give you a bob or two, Bob! PaulC PS I was SO lucky they didn't have nintendos back then ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 12:55:10 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Refuge of the Roads video I was watching the ROTR video the other night - and came away with the same impression I had initially - even tho' it 'looks' like a performance, I'm under the distinct impression that there was actually no audience. (no shots of an audience, no applause, and the band & Joni look like they're not connecting with anyone) So, is that the case? anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:54:15 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: The "Dog Eat Dog" Musical Appreciation Society presents ... For all those who do not appreciate yet the sheer genius of "Dog Eat Dog" -- I began thumbing through my collection from '83-'85 last night -- with the purpose of assembling a mix tape of mainstream songs of the day alteranted with the tracks on DED. While not yet finished, the results are already producing an irrefutable picture that DED is not "sell out synth pop" ... it is, in fact, 110% pure Joni. I'll let you know when I've finished it, and will be more than happy to make copies for any interested party. Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 13:31:33 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni: the long and short Don suggested: <> Well, OK, as long as we don't get any of that inane poetry between tracks... "cold, heartless orb, man cries for Winn Dixie coldcuts but has none"... :~) Bob NP: Shawn Colvin, "Get out of this house" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 12:12:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - November 19 1966: Joni performs at the Second Fret in Philadelphia alone and with Chuck Mitchell. - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:45:50 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Ukeleles - was Costing a Mint. And a half. Paul wrote: > Does anyone know who Joni is referring to when she sings > 'the ukelele man' in 'Night Ride Home'? The song was written after a trip with Larry to Maui. In my experiences visiting the Hawaiian Islands, there is always a "ukelele man" around somewhere playing background music. I think for some of them it is as natural as walking and talking. (Maybe Rainbow can add to this). I saw the cutest sight a few months ago at the L.A. airport waiting to board a flight. A large group of elderly Hawaiian women decked out in flower leis were strolling through the terminal accompanied by an elderly man playing ukelele and singing. Everyone around stopped in their tracks and was completely charmed by them. An airline employee behind the counter (who I learned grew up in Hawaii) got tears in her eyes and said to me "I'm sooo homesick". That's great about getting your Granny's uke restored. It must be beautiful. When I was growing up the uke was a common musical instrument among kids. And "My dog has fleas" was the first tune everyone learned. We could get ukes here really cheap back then - I think they were just a couple dollars. I never got one - instead I saved up my birthday money for a used Sears Silvertone guitar ;-D Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:56:26 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: (NJC) Come In From The Cold Winfried! It's great to hear from you. I've been wondering where you've been but figured you were immersed in "lawyering"! > On the other hand, each season has its very own charm. In two > weeks, the X-mas market will open on the city's historic market-square, > and I'm already looking forward to going there after work with my > friends and colleagues and drinking a glass of steaming hot mulled wine > flavored with ginger and cinnamon, smelling all those wonderful > christmas spices. Ahhh, it does sound wonderful. Too bad the California model internal thermostat was installed in me long ago ;-) And you think I'm a wimp - a friend of mine who grew up in Hawaii never owned a coat or sweater in her life until she moved to L.A.! > On a personal note, I am right now employed at the local district court, > where I'm being trained to become a judge. In Germany, everybody who > wants to practice law has to go through this education, regardless of > what the later profession will be. The idea is that every lawyer needs > to know how courts work and reach their decisions. That sounds like a wonderful experience! Although we don't have such a mandatory program here, many lawyers do choose to clerk with a judge for the first year after they leave law school. Keep up the good work and stay in touch, Winfried! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 19:19:41 +0000 From: Martin Giles Subject: RE: Jimmy Webb - All I Know (NJC) > PaulC... > can't go on living in London. Tonight (Tuesday) we have > Jan Garbarek & The Hilliard Ensemble at the Royal Albert Hall It's a funny, coincidental kinda world isn't it? I tuned into BBC radio3 in the car on Thursday night and caught the end of something beautiful and bizarre...choral music with a jazz saxophone. It was completely sublime, but unfortunately the announcer garbled her words afterwards, so I didn't find out what it was. This morning I came across a copy of last weeks 'Radio Times' in reception at work. This doesn't happen - we don't get it. But I looked up Radio 3 for the time that I was listening and it listed Jan Garberek & the Hilliard Ensemble. This evening, catching up on my jmdl digest reading, I find that they played on Tuesday at the RAH! And that of all the choices Paul listed, the one that Wally recommends is guess what...?? I'd never heard of this coalition b4 last week, and now, three times in one week I bump into them! Though I might have known that Joni fans would know about this fabulous music... What do you think guys, should I go and buy the record? Martin, in London. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 15:14:28 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Costing a Mint. And a half. NJC Paul lays down the gauntlet: <> Well, you got me on that one, but I do have Tom Waits singing it...only he sings the version I'm familiar with, "How in the heck Can I wash my neck If it ain't gonna rain no more" <> Ditto to that, Paul...imo kids today are much less creative than in our days - I was discussing with another lister when I was 4-5 I lived on Kwajalein in the Marshall Islands. We had no TV's or even radio, so we kids had to band together and create our own fun, put on plays, build forts, etc. Not to mention reading! Bob NP: The Connells, "New Boy" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:18:55 -0500 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Ukeleles - was Costing a Mint. And a half. > Does anyone know who Joni is referring to when she sings > 'the ukelele man' in 'Night Ride Home'? >The song was written after a trip with Larry to Maui. In my experiences >visiting the Hawaiian Islands, there is always a "ukelele man" around >somewhere playing background music. Thanks, Kakki. Of course. I don't know why but I'd always imagined L.A. as her home on this song. Makes much more sense now. What a great song! Did I dream it or did I hear Joni say (on the Miles of Aisles tour?) that she was referring to Hawaii as the paradise that got paved in Big Yellow Taxi? PaulC who can't spell 'fleas' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:22:22 -0500 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Jan Garbarek & The Hilliard Ensemble (NJC) Martin mlg@ukonline.co.uk wrote: > Jan Garbarek & The Hilliard Ensemble at the Royal Albert Hall >What do you think guys, should I go and buy the record? This is what the London Jazz Festival programme says: "Jan Garbarek is one of the world's great saxophonists. Five years ago he recorded 'Officium' with the Hilliard Ensemble for the ECM label and the result was a stunning blend of saxophone and vocal quartet that has sold out concerts at the Barbican, Royal Festival Hall and St Paul's Cathedral. Coming together again for the London Jazz Festival, they have decided to play the Royal Albert Hall in order to explore the unique acoustics of this extraordinary venue. The show draws on their two ECM albums, 'Officium' and 'Mnemosyne', but they introduce new material every time they play together." And here's a really good link to their ECM site: http://www.mediapolis.com/ecm-cgi-bin/background?1700 Makes me really want to hear this myself. I see they're playing at Durham Cathedral on Saturday night - I think that's more than 300 miles, though!! PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:42:32 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: The "Dog Eat Dog" Musical Appreciation Society presents ... > that DED is not "sell out synth > pop" ... it is, in fact, 110% pure Joni. I couldn't agree more. who else writes lyrics like that? Who siad it was sell out synth rock? Our Joni? Never!I love this album. > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:47:27 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: lyrics (NJC) Just thought I'd pose this to the entire list (this came up in talking w/Colin about dogs...) If any of you are familiar with Cheryl Wheeler's song "Arrow" you know it's a lovely song, rather sad and poignant. And if you know anything about Cheryl Wheeler, you know she has dogs - and loves them. There are a couple of lines in the song "Arrow" that say: "I wish I could feel my heartbeat rise And gaze into some gentle warm excited eyes" I've always thought that in the middle of this lovely song, she's actually talking about her dogs. (sorry if I've ruined the song for you) Does anyone else think so? Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:57:05 +0000 From: catman Subject: Your First MamogramNJC > > > > Many women are afraid of their first mammogram, but there is no need > to > > > > worry. By taking a few minutes each day for a week preceding the > exam > >and > > > > doing the following practice exercises, you will be totally prepared > for > > > the > > > > test, and best of all, you can do these simple practice exercises > right > >in > > > > your home. > > > > > > > > EXERCISE 1: > > > > Open your refrigerator door and insert one breast between the door > and > >the > > > > main box. Have one of your strongest friends slam the door shut as > hard > >as > > > > possible and lean on the door for good measure. Hold that position > for > > > five > > > > seconds. Repeat again in case the first time wasn't effective > enough. > > > > > > > > EXERCISE 2: > > > > Visit your garage at 3 AM when the temperature of the cement floor > is > >just > > > > perfect. Take off all your clothes and lie comfortably on the floor > with > > > one > > > > breast wedged under the rear tire of the car. Ask a friend to slowly > >back > > > > the car up until your breast is sufficiently flattened and chilled. > >Turn > > > > over and repeat for the other breast. > > > > > > > > EXERCISE 3: > > > > Freeze two metal bookends overnight. Strip to the waist. Invite a > >stranger > > > > into the room. Press the bookends against one of your breasts. > Smash > >the > > > > bookends together as hard as you can. Set an appointment with the > >stranger > > > > to meet next year and do it again. You are now properly prepared.> - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:57:58 +0000 From: catman Subject: ouch! NJC This was on the Leno show (9-7-99). Jay went > into the audience to find the most embarrassing first > date that a woman ever had. The winner told about > her first date experience. > She said it was snowing and cold and the guy > took her skiing. It was a day trip (no overnight). > They were strangers, and truly had never met > before. The date went OK until they were coming back > that afternoon. They were going along in the car and she > had to pee real bad, but it was still about an hour or more > back to civilization. He said she should try to hold it, and > she did for a while. It finally came to the point where she > told him that he could either stop and let her pee beside > the road, or in the front seat of his car. > They stopped and she went out beside the car and > pulled her pants down and started. Well, she didn't have > real good balance, so she let her butt rest against the rear > fender to steady herself. He was a real gentleman and > looked the other way. When she was finished, she quickly > noticed that her warm butt had stuck to the fender. > Thoughts of tongues frozen to pump handle nightmares > immediately came to mind and she soon realized that she > had a real problem. She was thinking of every way she could > to get released from his fender. > He was getting a bit concerned too, and finally cried out to > her asking if she was OK. Well, with a red face, she said she > was freezing her butt off! > She finally had to ask for assistance. Now this isn't the worst > of the story, there's more to come. She took off her sweater > and covered herself as good as she could and asked him to > come around to see if he could help. > After the laughter subsided, they assessed the situation. They > had a real problem. They agreed that they needed something > warm to melt her butt off of the fender. Thinking about the pee > that she just sprinkled on the ground made her think that pee is > about the only thing that they had that could get her free. > Well, after exploring every other possible solution, she looked > the other way, and so did he, and proceeded to unzip his pants > and pee her butt off the fender. The rest of the trip home there > wasn't much conversation. > - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:59:04 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Jimmy Webb, Part 2 (NJC) In a message dated 17/11/99 19:23:07 GMT Standard Time, asandstrom@allaire.com writes: << It's definitely worth seeing him perform his own songs. He does a great job of it (I'm pretty critical of performers.) His voice is strong and melodic and his piano playing is wonderful. He also brings something to the songs, a depth of emotion, that most covers somehow don't quite get. >> Some people do their own songs better than anyone can, others don't. Anne's writing this sparked off two chains of thought in me: Many of you know I'm a huge Richard Thompson fan, and I think his singing has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years. I agree with Anne that he, like Jimmy Webb, can bring something extra to the songs; my gloss on that is that their performances evoke more emotion because they UNDERPLAY. When people cover great songs like Galveston or Dimming of the Day, they almost invariably treat them over-reverently. It's almost as if they are in awe of the songs. Jimmy and Richard wrote the damn things, and I find that they sing them more matter-of-factly, which, perhaps paradoxically, makes them cut to the quick even more. The other chain of thought concerned Joni's Jazz: I was underwhelmed by most of the singing, much of which was strained and overemoted to my ears, and mentioned that I thought Jane Siberry did quite well. Someone responded that maybe the reason she wasn't straining was that she wasn't really trying (or words to that effect). I thought at the time that was both unfair to Sib and based on a false supposition that you're not really trying unless it can be heard in your voice. Well, Joni don't sound like she's straining on most of her live and studio recordings. Michael Bolton, on the other hand (and please excuse the language), sounds like he's trying terribly hard. Need I say more?? Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 17:43:17 EST From: Kleronomos@aol.com Subject: fans and fanatics I'm no fanatic. I love Joni Mitchell, but I don't worship her. I love her like I would love a friend, or a sister (since I've been happily married for 22 years to another wonderful woman of heart and mind, that's as far as I go, though when I was younger, I loved her in another way!) Sometimes I feel some restraint from posting because I feel I don't "measure up" to the level of adoration that others may have. I have even only heard little after C&S (my favorites are Blue and FTR). I've just purchased Dog Eat Dog and Hejira (haven't received them yet). And I recently picked up (at Sue's urging) Herbie Hancock's "Gershwin's World". I saw Joni last year about this time in MSG in NY with Dylan. Loved it. Loved Dylan too, but I went for Joni. Too short a time with both of them! I can't imagine what it must have been like with Van Morrison as well. Strange that she and Dylan didn't do at least one song together (even though she said that Bob had written the last verse to Big Yellow Taxi, and sang it in a Dylanesque voice! "Late last niiiiiight, I heard the screen door salaaaaam!...") With all the diversity represented on the list, though, I still feel confident that there is room for one, who, though a JM +fan+, reserves +worship+ for the One who created each of us. I wonder how a celeb (and particularly Joni) feels, knowing that they are flesh and blood, about the worship they sometimes receive. That being said, there are few who have been able to move the heart as profoundly she has with her art. Artists of the Millenium? She's right up there with Shakespeare, in my book, and Mozart. NP Debussy "Claire de lune" (my daughter on our piano) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 23:07:55 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: fans and fanatics > > > With all the diversity represented on the list, though, I still feel > confident that there is room for one, who, though a JM +fan+, reserves > +worship+ for the One who created each of us. Oh I don't think you are the only one who recognizes that Joni is just a person with the same value as any other person. I think 'One' doesn't need or care about our worship. One already knows how great One is. I think One would be more interested in our 'worshipping' of eachother i.e seeing the value of each of us instead of the way things are at present. > I wonder how a celeb (and > particularly Joni) feels, knowing that they are flesh and blood, about the > worship they sometimes receive. I would imagine they think it is sad or odd or wonderful or deserved, depending on their own level of awareness. bw colin > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:35:14 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Refuge of the Roads video I certainly assume these were not live performances, although the arrangements were basically the same ones she was using for the tour, for good or ill. I will come out on a limb and say I like the rocked-out "Banquet." On a sort of related note, are there any tapes floating around of Joni singing "I Heard It through the Grapevine" as she did on that tour? It's easy to make fun of this "bad hair video," I think Joni wears a couple of really cute outfits, I like "Chinese Cafe" and "For Free," and I love the quick cuts of Joni during the song "Refuge of the Roads" in all her no-makeup glory. At 12:55 PM 11/18/99 -0500, you wrote: >I was watching the ROTR video the other night - and came away with the same >impression I had initially - even tho' it 'looks' like a performance, I'm >under the distinct impression that there was actually no audience. (no shots >of an audience, no applause, and the band & Joni look like they're not >connecting with anyone) > >So, is that the case? > >anne > > > Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:48:00 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Your First Mamogram NJC ROTFL! And ouch! This is very funny. But I feel as a public service I should tell people that none of my mammograms have ever hurt, really. I hate the thought of women avoiding mammograms out of fear. Give me a mammogram over a routine teeth cleaning any day. At 09:57 PM 11/18/99 +0000, you wrote: > > > > > Many women are afraid of their first mammogram, but >there is no need > > to > > > > > worry. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:53:45 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: fans and fanatics Kleronomos@aol.com writes: << I'm no fanatic. I love Joni Mitchell, but I don't worship her. Sometimes I feel some restraint from posting because I feel I don't "measure up" to the level of adoration that others may have. Hi Kleronomos@aol.com (sorry I don't know your name) Thanks for posting. First off all, IMO no one on this list *worships* Joni ! Of course we are GREAT fans of hers, but there are even some members who are bigger fans of other artists other than Joni Mitchell. <> Again, IMO we are all fans! I know that when you read some of the posts (mine included), it may sound like we go overboard when talking about Joni, but most of us joined this list to discuss Joni's wonderful talent. I think if you took a poll, most of the JMDL would say they also *worship* the One who created each of us. <> You couldn't have said it better. Thanks again for posting, and bringing up the worship issue in case there are other Lurkers who may think the same as you do (or did, I hope) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 23:59:06 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Lyrics Raffaele, speaking personally I don't think the lyric to Sex Kills needs much explaining. The audience that night didn't need it explaining. I think it is a failry good representation of how the world is at present, from one perspective. Sex can kill but that is not new. People go on as if we have never experienced anyhting like HIV and AIDS which is not true. People have very short memories. Prior to the dicovery of penicillin, millions died and or were affected by Syphillis. 'every one hates everyone you can feel it out in traffic' is again pretty accurate, from a certain perspective. I certainly don't like cities. 'kids packin guns to school' well if one hears/reads the news one can't deny that one. The more interesting discussion came from The Sire Of Sorrow. Not only was it taken as read-a beseeching song to god-but also as an opener into the discussing of 'how could God allow all this suffering'. Some don't believe in a God becuase of all the suffering. still others believe(and they have a serious problem i feel) that the misery is evidence of Gods displeasure. i.e people get cancer, aids, murdered ect becuaase god is punishing them or whole communities get wrecked thru war or earthquake or famine etc becuase God is angry with them. Some even believ the famine and pestilence etc is because they don't follow a particular religion, meaning 'they don't belieiv as I do so they are evil and God will destroy them'. We also talked about this song a much more personal level. The common theme related to this was the experience of grief. Grief has such a shattering affect on the person who experinces it. I know of nothing else that effects the self in quite the same way.(grief is not just experienced thru the death of a loved one-it can be experienced over the death of the past, a realtionship, the realisation that childhood is gone and cannot be reclaimed or changed). Many who have gone thru this almighty changing experience shared that it brought more depth of understanding, a less rigid approach to the idea of God and a less rigid approach to others and their behaviours and also were inclined to be less judgemental about others. One or two racted to the experience of grief with more blame and jugement and a more rigid and dgomatic appraoch to god. believing, sadly, that if they had been better people their pain would not have arisen. Interestingly, Natalie, a termianl illness nurse at a famous hospital here, spoke about her experience of being with people as they approached death and died. In her experience it was those of the more rigid faiths, especially ministers, priests, vicars, elders etc, who suffered the most anguish during the illness and approching death. They felt the most fear, the most anger, the most bitterness.She explained it was because they felt they had been 'good whatever their religion was' and followed 'Gods word' and now he had let them down and deserted them. Those with a belief in the afterlife but not followers of any creed or dogma, fared much better because they usaually didn't share an idea that God was punitive . They felt secure in knowing they were loved for who they were and not for what they believed. Young people, her experience is strong with those dying becuase of CF, faced death much more easily too because, she felt, they had yet to experience the things that age brings and therefore did not have such a hard time letting go. The discussion was actually very positive. Most people accepted that the majotiy of our ills and sufferings were the result of the actions of people rather than some outside force. The idea of personal responsibilty was very much to the fore, the takling repsonsibilty for our actions and reactions to what evr befell us. We genrally felt that what we thought and believed about ourselves, about others and our idea of God were the deciding factors in how our lives were experinced. Only one or two felt that disease, like cancer or whatever, was brought about by our own beahiours etc. tho they felt our experince and reaction to such illness was very much dependant upon our thoughts and beliefs about it. Most thought that it was just something that happenes, with the causes not 100% known, but that how we lived with it was what mattered. Some felt is was wrong to put pressure onto sufferes to 'heal themslevs' by doing all sorts of things like meditataion and visulaization and eating this or that or praying or following some guru etc,. Some were inclined to think along the lines of 'You Can Heal Your Life' (HAY) whilst most, includiong myself, were rather against those ideas as we thought they placed blame upon the sufferer and implied that if we got diseased and died it was our fault becauase we weren't good enough in some way. A strong theme througout this song, The Sire Of Sorrow, is that it appears that others who are cold and calculating and wrongdoers basically seem to get away with it at the expense of the 'good'people. as most of us felt that we are what we think and that nothing escapes the law of 'God', we reap what we sow, and so that even if it looked like someone had gotten away scott free with murder of whatever, that in reality they have not. Interestingly the only Hell most believed in was the hell we each create for oursleves and we all felt that we could equally create heaven for oureselves. To quote Jesus 'The Kingdon Of God Is Within'. The general feeling was that heaven was not a place but a state of mind, and the same could be said of Hell. The discussion of Tax Free from DED revolved around the damage powerful charismatic people can do when they use people's insecurites and fear to gain the upperhand and also the inclination of people to opt out of thinking and being responsible and allow others to have this power over them. All in all the whole evening was excellent and very satisfying with the general consensus being that we each have personal responsibility, that much of the pain in this world is caused by us and our lack of understanding and lack of acceptance of personal responsibilty and that thru prayer and meditation we would become more intutitive and responsive and aware which leads to a bettering of ourselves rather than praying that God does something about this 'mess we're in'. The diea that we should pray in the sense of asking God for peace on earth or some such was a complete waste of time and an abdicatin of our responsibiltiy. Just being open to the influence of Good thru meditation and prayer was considerd the way to go for most people. There were those in the discussion that were extremely uncomfortable and unable to see differnt ideas to their own. fear had got the better of them. The most obivous thing with these people, and really very sad, was their obvious belief in their not being good enough. So you see those three songs, and I am sure many others, brought about a really powerful discissuion of life and ideas and the meanings and interpreatations we all have about life. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #519 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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