From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #500 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, November 6 1999 Volume 04 : Number 500 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Rachmaninoff ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: Delurking - NJC [catman ] Re: NJC: How's Carly Simon? [catman ] 10 out of 10 + a Gold Star ["Paul Castle" ] Delurking ["Kakki" ] NJC: Thanksgiving rev. [Drewdix@aol.com] Re: JMDL releases NJC....dreamland [waytoblu@mindspring.com] Re: My Dinner with Joni [Julian51469@aol.com] NJC Streaming WUMB ["Chuck EIsenhardt" ] Re: Delurking [Jason Maloney ] Re: My Dinner with Joni [Jason Maloney ] Re: My Dinner with Joni [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Okay okay! I'll stop lurking now! [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: racial slurs and DJRD [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC: How's Carly Simon? ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Thanksgiving rev. ["Mark or Travis" ] Rachmaninoff, Slurs, DRJD ["Russell Bowden" ] Re: Rachmaninoff, Slurs, DRJD ["Kakki" ] NJC: Music of the Heart: GO [Julie Webb ] Re: Music of the Heart: GO NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Sugar Town - A new movie with Larry Klein! (njc) [WirlyPearl@aol.com] Re:Slurs, DRJD (final thoughts) [dsk ] NJC The godlike genius of Kate Bush - and Fireworks NJC [AzeemAK@aol.co] Re: Music of the Heart: GO NJC [Brian Gross ] Jennifer Kimball (VLJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Re:Slurs, DRJD (final thoughts) ["Kakki" ] Re: Rachmaninoff, Slurs, DRJD [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Rachmaninoff, Slurs, DRJD [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Rachmaninoff, Slurs, DRJD [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC: Music of the Heart: GO [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Jennifer Kimball NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: JM screensaver 2nd edition now available [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Music of the Heart: GO NJC [Julie Webb ] Re: NJC The godlike genius of Kate Bush - and Fireworks NJC [catman ] Re: Slurs, DRJD (final thoughts) [catman ] Re: Music of the Heart: GO NJC [catman ] Re: Music of the Heart: GO NJC [catman ] Re: Music of the Heart: GO NJC [catman ] Re: Thanksgiving rev./&DJRD [Drewdix@aol.com] DJRD [Emily Kirk Gray ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 04:32:18 -0500 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Rachmaninoff Ange in Sydney asks: << ...does anyone know which Rachmaninof piece Joni says inspired her to get into music when she was younger?? >> Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini. This has remained my most beloved classical piece since I was 19 & only recently I learned how much it impacted the young Joni. I've read that it's inspired countless pop songs & I even wrote lyrics to a particularly moving refrain myself (which I entitled Rock's Rhapsody). I've heard dozens of renditions & highly recommend Leonard Bernstein's interpretation! La la la la la, la-la-la-la-la.... E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 10:18:01 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Delurking - NJC Hi Andy-glad you delurked. keep writing when the mood takes you. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 10:17:55 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC: How's Carly Simon? As far as I am aware the treatment she had for the breast cancer went well. She has done a new album of her own songs but don't know when it will be released. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 10:22:55 -0500 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: 10 out of 10 + a Gold Star Andy Stancliffe astancli@library.ucla.edu wrote (brilliantly) >So many times I've thought I should get off the list, >since I don't find time to participate, but I've never >been able to bring myself to sign off. What I like about the JMDL is the amazingly high standard of 'lurker' it not only attracts, but also seems to retain. For what you are about to post May the JMDL be truly thankful. PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 02:43:06 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Delurking Andy delurked: >I've been lurking on this list for a few years now. I began >reading the digests not long after the list was created. I actually >did send in a post now and then (usually to defend a song that was >being criticized, like Ray's Dad's Cadillac or You Turn Me On, I'm a >Radio). What a great post! I also remember your name, Andy. Where have you been?! You are in L.A., you work at my alma mater and look at all there is in common with your local tribemembers - >I've been a fan of Joni's music since 1972, when I was 18. Same age as sister Kakki. >I attended the Stormy Weather benefit last year, and enjoyed seeing her perform with an orchestra >(and with Bjork). Kinsman Ken and I were there. >For so many years I would pore over Rolling Stone, or the LA Times Calendar or Musician >magazine hoping to see some little tidbit to find out what Joni was up >to. Uh, huh, same here, yep. >I have a box in my closet with old magazines and clippings going back to 1972, beginning with the >issue of Rolling Stone (with honeymooners James and Carly on the cover) >containing the review of For the Roses. So does Brother Dulson. Andy - I feel like we've found our fourth missing "Beatle" or something - when are you going to party with us and the rest of the SoCal-ers? ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:28:53 EST From: Drewdix@aol.com Subject: NJC: Thanksgiving rev. You know, I woke up this morning and realized how crass and mean spirited my comments about Christ might have been taken by someone. Absolutely not my intention. To be sure, Buddhism preaches respect and tolerance above all, and I apologize for maybe seeming otherwise. I know it's not good to "joke" and speak out of context on a list about such a topic. Just shows you how far I have to go. I've been away from the list for months, and I'll just confine my posts to Joni, when I have something constructive to say! - --Drew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:55:02 -0500 From: waytoblu@mindspring.com Subject: Re: JMDL releases NJC....dreamland > > >sounds like a dream........ >Catgirl....dreamland....... If any place on earth could be considered heaven, Cumberland Island would be one of them. It really is like paradise there. I remember waking up each morning and running through the trees to get to the beach and catch the sunrise. Sometime there are a couple of other people out there but often you are the only one standing on the white sand, gazing across the water, watching the wild horses eat the sea grass, though they pay little attention to people, occasionally glancing up. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 09:32:37 EST From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Re: My Dinner with Joni Hey there Don, A fantastic post! I love it! I'm a huge Firesign Theatre fan and radio theater in general has always been the zillion dollar movie for my head. Have you ever given thoughts to making a full length "My Dinner with Joni"? One could include all of the millenium 6 degrees stuff, the strange and twisted album and song titles, the JMDLer's meet and greet excitement, Joni mythology and inuendo, etc, etc. I wouldn't mind tossing some ideas around with you privately concerning scripts, recordings, mastering, advertising and hype, world domination - you know, the usual trains of thought;-) If anyone else out there is intersted in throwing in their "two cents worth" to fund this hair-brained notion...I'd love to hear. 4eva' Julian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 10:14:12 -0500 From: "Chuck EIsenhardt" Subject: NJC Streaming WUMB Hi Jimdles! I guess this qualifies me for my de-lurk. Yes, I don't post that much any more. I am keeping an eye on the digests tho, and here I am out with neat news: Those of you in an area devoid of good acoustic/folk/world/jazz/ music over the airwaves may be interested to know that Boston's very excellent WUMB radio has begun streaming audio web broadcast. Do they play Joni! You bet! The station plays all the mentioned formats but is predominantly acoustic folk 18 hours a day. If you are already set up for streaming audio, you can just point your player at http://130.105.13.3:8000 If like me you are a bit behind in the technology you can go to the station's website (http://www.wumb.org)and follow a link to download a streaming audio (MP3) player for Windows or Mac. I tried the Mac player (now called Macast) this morning and it wasn't too complicated a process. You can try the demo and if you wish to register the full version: it's a $25 shareware charge. The player obviously handles any other MP3 source as well. The quality is excellent; I'll venture to call it near-CD. I play this station ALL the time. They broadcast excellent local live productions as well as national syndications like E-town. The on-air personalities are extremely knowledgeable and present the widest imaginable range of acoustic music. So now even Wally K down in Tierra del Fuego can now hear great folk radio! If you go the station's site you may also want to vote for their millennium top 100 folk albums (until the deadline on Monday) Joni has always placed well in these kinds of UMB listener polls (best folk song, best folk album) but has never won outright - second to Cheryl Wheeler? Please! Cast a vote for Joni! np: JMDL NEFest99 - the Atty May session Chuck E ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 15:29:29 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Delurking Hi Andy, Like many others who've replied, I am glad you decided to de-lurk. This paragraph I've quoted from your post sums up pretty much exactly how I feel about the JMDL myself : > I've been so impressed with the > intelligence, sensitivity, understanding, and humor that all you > 'regulars' display in your postings. I feel that I know many of you, > and have so much respect for you. This list has moved me to tears, has > sometimes made me angry, has made me question my own assumptions and > has enriched my life. So many times I've thought I should get off the > list, since I don't find time to participate, but I've never been able > to bring myself to sign off. When the option to switch to "Joni Only" > mode became available, I thought for a few days about switching, but I > realized I'd miss so much of the fascinating discussions about current > events. I rely on the JMDLers to weigh in on their favorite musicians, > on their reactions to headlines in the news, etc. Amen to that. I get frustrated come JoniFest time, when I can't be actively involved and spend time with many of you. I have to comfort myself with the pics and the reports. "One day.." I keep telling myself, "one day..." :-) > So anyway, I would like to say thank you to all of you, including Mark > in Seattle, Kakki, Sue Mc, Colin, Ashara, Rickie Lee, Michael (all the > Michaels), Kate, Evian, Jimmy, Helen, Eric, Bob, MG, Deb, Jerry, Jason, > Scott, Catherine, Paul, Catgirl, Marcel (and you know there may be lots > more) for enriching my life through your willingness to share your > thoughts and feelings. Well, the good folks who post on here do so with such warmth, grace and style that it tends to have that effect :-) Hey, you forgot to mention Don! Hope he isn't too devastated....or there will be gloopy electronic hell to pay! LOL Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 15:42:06 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: My Dinner with Joni Julian and Don, Guys, this is a fabulous idea! I've been loving each installation of Don's Dinner With Joni spoof, and wishing there was more :-) The potential in this "hair-brained idea" (as if!!!!) is enormous. I hope it catches on. Jason. Julian51469@aol.com wrote: > Hey there Don, > > A fantastic post! I love it! I'm a huge Firesign Theatre fan and radio > theater in general has always been the zillion dollar movie for my head. > Have you ever given thoughts to making a full length "My Dinner with Joni"? > One could include all of the millenium 6 degrees stuff, the strange and > twisted album and song titles, the JMDLer's meet and greet excitement, Joni > mythology and inuendo, etc, etc. I wouldn't mind tossing some ideas around > with you privately concerning scripts, recordings, mastering, advertising and > hype, world domination - you know, the usual trains of thought;-) If anyone > else out there is intersted in throwing in their "two cents worth" to fund > this hair-brained notion...I'd love to hear. > > 4eva' > Julian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 11:10:57 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: My Dinner with Joni In a message dated 11/6/99 9:35:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, Julian51469@aol.com writes: << I wouldn't mind tossing some ideas around with you privately concerning scripts, recordings, mastering, advertising and hype, world domination >> But which one of you would be Pinky and which one the Brain? (Antelope Freeway 1/2 mile...) Paul I NR: The back of my office door -- REGNAD KCIN OH, and hold the anchovies. (Antelope Freeway 1/4 mile...) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 11:49:07 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Okay okay! I'll stop lurking now! In a message dated 11/4/1999 12:16:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, polifkas@milwaukee.tec.wi.us writes: << My 1st CD single was released about 2 months ago- this is for all the other songwriting JMDLer's out there, so I want to share some lyrics… Maybe see you in N'awlins? Talk to me! Steve >> WELL, It's about time you came out of lurkdoms Steve!!! Yea!!! Thanks for sharing your wonderful Joni story with us and I look forward to hearing more from you. Hugs! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 12:38:25 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: racial slurs and DJRD In a message dated 11/6/99 12:03:06 AM US Central Standard Time, evian@sk.sympatico.ca writes: << Rather, it's used as a good device to make you think "whoa, where is this coming from, and what do we do with it?", which it obviously has! Anyway, does that make any sense? >> It makes a TON of sense, and it's a good way to summarize the whole discussion. It also adds further proof that Joni is so far ahead of the rest of Pop Culture... Bob NP: Santana, "Wishing it Was"...another one for my Top Ten list...hell, I may need 20 slots for my top ten this year! :~) It also shickles the tit outta me that this record has been the #1 CD for the past couple weeks, even if kids are buying it for the Rob Thomas (Matchbox 20) tune...gee, maybe Joni needs to make a DED2 with some off-the-wall duets! :~D ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 10:14:26 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: NJC: How's Carly Simon? > As far as I am aware the treatment she had for the breast cancer went > well. She has done a new album of her own songs but don't know when it > will be released. > > Excellent news! Thanks Colin! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 10:16:59 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Thanksgiving rev. > I've been away from the list for months, and I'll just confine my posts to > Joni, when I have something constructive to say! > --Drew No need to be that extreme, Drew! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 10:26:18 PST From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: Rachmaninoff, Slurs, DRJD For Ange and everyone who's interested. I believe that piece is Variations on a Theme of Paganini. (24th variation, I believe) It was used heavily in the film "Somewhere in Time" with Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour. Many films have used it since the '30's. It has been played with full (REALLY full) orchestra as well as solo piano. Absolutely, gushingly beautiful. The whole slur discussion has left me somewhat bemused, I think our Queen was simply (?!) PWWAM. Was she supposed to sing 'a black person and a white person conversing over a container of liquid?? BOR-ing and kinda stupid, maybe?? It seems to me that when the Goddess wants to let someone have it between the eyes, she aims with stinging accuracy. (Lawyers, loan sharks, snake bite evangelists, Madison Ave, governments of anywhere, etc.) Otis and Marlena are just a couple of folks arriving in Miami (God's waiting room?) They dream of golden beauty...(face lifts, minks, television, nails) staving off the end of old age as the rest of the world goes to hell. (Yes, I remember the incident where some Muslims were raising a big ruckus in DC.around '75. DRJD is definitely one of my top # 3 JM recordings...and had held #1 spot for many years (with Hejira) I have listened to this one more than any other one and am still amazed by it and thankful it exists. I submit this with love and respect to the listers. Love, Russ NPIMH: DRJD the whole thing!!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 12:01:51 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Rachmaninoff, Slurs, DRJD Russ wrote: > The whole slur discussion has left me somewhat bemused, I think our Queen > was simply (?!) PWWAM. "Painting with words and music" is the same thought that came to me yesterday. > DJRD is definitely one of my top # 3 JM recordings...and had held #1 spot > for many years (with Hejira) I have listened to this one more than any > other one and am still amazed by it and thankful it exists. It is also in my top three, but it holds my No. 1 spot for the most brilliant of her works to date, both musically and lyrically. I have also played it endlessly all these years and still am in total awe of it each time. The album is so deep in me that it has been really difficult to articulate my thoughts during the "slur" discussion. Any concept of real slurs being present in this masterpiece is just too much cognizant dissonance for me to process. Kakki NP: Paprika Plains ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 13:18:39 -0500 From: Julie Webb Subject: NJC: Music of the Heart: GO Does anyone have the following memory? Iin the 60's and 70's--- once in a great while, busloads of school kids were shuttled off to take a field trip to a matinee screening to see a film considered to be extraordinary in that it's message was wholesome while teaching the students something meaningful about the human experience? As a Catholic school kid we boarded a zillion school buses to see "The Singing Nun," "To Sir With Love," "The Ten Commandments" and "The Sound of Music." Thank God that Madonna lost this lead because Meryl gives us "everywoman" like no one else can. We're talkin' Meryl doing a much more abrasive "Maria" ie Julie Andrews with a little Sidney Portier and "Rockie" thrown in in her latest movie "Music of the Heart. " I was so impressed that Meryl gave us "Anna" in all dimmensions...she evolves (appropriately clumsily).from a depressed cuckold military wife and mother--- to a short stint as an overly needy girlfiriend on the rebound, while teaching violin to East Harlem students in the (refreshingly) politically **INcorrect** style of the 'nightmare-piano-ruler-slapping- teachers' of long ago, ("Your parents will throw up if they see you playing that badly. ") We follow her for 10 years as she eventually evolves into a woman who finds peace in her independent self through her desire to enhance the lives of children through her gift of teaching the violin and in doing so inspires philanthropy to keep music./art departments from being cut in the public schools. (Hint: Izaak Pearlman (sp?) and Carnegie Hall..) (It's field trip time! Get those kids on the schoolbus to see this movie! Take the whole family, especially your sons too to see this woman heroine. My 7 year-old twin boys loved it! My 11 year-old said, "This is tons better than "Titanic," may I buy it when it's out on video? but mom, please don't make me start taking violin lessons."). Sorry to be so movie-oriented these days on this list, but who else better to share a music movie with than all of you? What can I say? I loved this movie and not too long ago I had complained in a jmdl post about how female characters tend to be so poorly portrayed in movies, well now I have a "change of heart" after seeing "Music of the Heart." -Julie Z. Webb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 12:42:20 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Music of the Heart: GO NJC Our resident movie critic, the illustrious Ms. Webb writes: > Does anyone have the following memory? Iin the 60's and 70's--- once > in a great while, busloads of school kids were shuttled off to take a > field trip to a matinee screening to see a film considered to be > extraordinary in that it's message was wholesome while teaching the > students something meaningful about the human experience? As a > Catholic school kid we boarded a zillion school buses to see "The > Singing Nun," "To Sir With Love," "The Ten Commandments" and "The Sound > of Music." > Thank God that Madonna lost this lead because Meryl gives us > "everywoman" like no one else can. We're talkin' Meryl doing a much > more abrasive "Maria" ie Julie Andrews with a little Sidney Portier and > "Rockie" thrown in in her latest movie "Music of the Heart. Thank you, Jules! I've been curious about this movie, wondering if it's just another cliche-ridden heart-warmer or something worth seeing. Meryl Streep is almost always worth the price of admission, however (i.e.: The Bridges of Madison County - she makes that move, imo). Now I definitely want to see this one. In Junior High I remember the whole class trouping downtown to see 'Shane'. And before wild rumors begin to fly as to my true age, let me say the film was already pretty old by the time we did this. That's the only class field trip to see a movie that I remember. We all thought 'Shane' was pretty funny, bless our pubescent little hearts. There was quite a bit of tittering and making fun of the line 'Come back, Shane!' I also remember seeing 'Jane Eyre' in the school auditorium. Maybe it was being in the school building or maybe it was just a better story but I don't remember any laughter during that one. In high school they showed us 'Night and Fog' which is still one of the most gut-wrenching, eye-opening experiences I remember from my youth. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:52:59 EST From: WirlyPearl@aol.com Subject: Sugar Town - A new movie with Larry Klein! (njc) Hi guys, I thought you would all like to know that there's a new movie out called Sugar Town about the LA Music scene and none other than Larry Klein has a part in it. I think it's written and directed by the people who did Grace of My Heart. I checked the review through the Miami Herald website (http://www.miamiherald.com) and it gave several reviews from different newspapers around the country. It was rated anywhere between 1 and 3 1/2 stars. Anyway, I haven't seen it but I look forward to soon. Has anyone else seen it yet? I'd love to here what you thought. Pearl Sugar Town' pokes affectionate fun at L.A. show biz scene By Candace Murphy San Jose Mercury News Published: Tuesday, October 5, 1999 LOS ANGELES has the strange quality of being a city whose inhabitants are always in transit. They're either on the way up or on the way down, and always on the edge of a dream. So leave it to Allison Anders, who depicted truck-stop life to gritty, depressing perfection in ``Gas Food Lodging,'' to capture the limbo-like nature of the City of Angels in her latest film, ``Sugar Town.'' Written and directed in collaboration with Kurt Voss (with whom Anders first worked 10 years ago on ``Border Radio,'' a UCLA film school project), ``Sugar Town'' is an edgy, weaving romp through the tangentially connected lives of assorted has-beens, wannabes and never-weres. From the opening introduction to the ruthlessly ambitious Gwen (Jade Gordon), an aspiring rock ingenue whose drive to get ahead and lack of conscience remind one of Nicole Kidman in ``To Die For,'' to the final credits, in which Anders and Voss dedicate the film in loving memory to the late two-hit '80s wonder Falco, ``Sugar Town'' is a loving, tongue-in-cheek jab at a city people love to hate and hate to love. Even better than the story line -- which could be loosely described as the L.A. music scene is thriving, and the beat goes on -- is the cast Anders and Voss assembled to breathe life into their dialogue. That many have ties to the music world lends an authenticity. For instance, there's John Taylor (of Duran Duran), Martin Kemp (Spandau Ballet) and Michael Des Barres (Silverhead, Chequered Past and Power Station) playing a group of fading '80s pop icons, some of whose skin is more leathery than the cowhide vests they sport at clubs. One priceless moment shows Taylor, who plays Clive, mocking his own kiddie-pop days. There's also John Doe of the seminal punk band X (who also starred in ``Border Radio''), playing a session musician. ********And Larry Klein, a bassist and producer who has worked with Peter Gabriel and Joni Mitchell, portrays a famous but seamy music producer named Burt.******** Turning in other notable performances are Ally Sheedy as a spineless, no-luck-in-love production designer who is persuaded by the conniving Gwen to wear a splattered paint smock on a date and later falls for a no-good guy she meets at a wheat-grass machine in a health foods store; and Rosanna Arquette as Eva, a former sexpot actress whose ego was shattered by an offer to play Christina Ricci's mother. Nearly all the actors are good at comedy, making ``Sugar Town'' a warm and funny hour-and-a-half experience. The world of music and musicians isn't new to Anders, and that's another reason ``Sugar Town'' works. The co-director cut her teeth on the subject in ``Border Radio,'' which was about the nefarious underground L.A. punk-rock scene. And in 1996, Anders wrote the screenplay and directed ``Grace of My Heart,'' a film about the Brill Building, the fabled concrete structure that launched the careers of a number of songwriters, musicians and performers throughout the '50s, '60s and '70s. But Anders seems wary of the direction she took in ``Grace of My Heart'' -- and faithfully following the arc of the story as if that film were a finely crafted pop tune. In ``Sugar Town,'' she returns to the more spontaneous style with which she and Voss are comfortable. They wrote the screenplay in just eight days. The film was shot in a scant three weeks (mostly to accommodate Lucinda Jenney, who plays Carl's wife, and was seven months pregnant). The camera jumps from situation to situation, weaving threads of the story in Robert Altman fashion. Costumes were borrowed and friends' houses used as sets. The result is an immediacy that nearly crackles on screen. There could be no more fitting tribute to ``Sugar Town,'' a city where fame is the most addictive, destructive drug of all. This reviewer gave it 3 1/2 stars! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 16:29:20 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re:Slurs, DRJD (final thoughts) Russell Bowden wrote: > The whole slur discussion has left me somewhat bemused, I think our Queen > was simply (?!) PWWAM. Was she supposed to sing 'a black person and a white > person conversing over a container of liquid?? BOR-ing and kinda stupid, > maybe?? That wouldn't be in character for Joni any more than spewing racial hatred would be. BUT, using a term that's like a spit in the face to a very large group of people, NOT because of what they're DOING (lawyering, loan sharking, evangelizing, selling, legislating; all forms of "wheeling and dealing"), but ONLY BECAUSE OF WHO THEY ARE, is insensitive and distasteful. Even after reading all the explanations and dismissals and "this isn't importants" said in various ways, I still don't understand how Joni could write this. The word wizard she is could have come up with something else if she'd felt it was important to do so. For a fuller experience in being a black man, I suggest she disguise herself again and try to get a cab to stop for her in New York City or get waited on in a store before white person me does. I've often seen what happens; maybe she hasn't. In saying this, I am NOT calling Joni a racist, which is how some people have taken this discussion. I've never been a fan who believes Joni does everything perfectly and has no flaws. She's extraordinary for sure, but still very human, limited to her particular experience with occasional lapses in judgment. So am I. Human, limited and lapsed me is who she speaks to. I just looked again at the end of the PWWAM video where she's sitting with friends singing Dreamland. She skips over the verse with Tar Baby in it and goes directly from verse 1 to "in a plane flying back to winter..." with a "D r e a ea eam on" in between. I take that as a sign that she also has rethought this issue we've been discussing. That is what I'd expect of her. That's all my at-the-moment-crabby self has to say on this subject. I get annoyed when very complex subjects are turned off or reduced to something simple so it can be dismissed. In life, this discussion is a never-ending thread. And now my crabby cranky critical imperfect self really will give it a rest, on this list anyway. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 16:30:13 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: NJC The godlike genius of Kate Bush - and Fireworks NJC The background: 5th November is Guy Fawkes Night in Blighty, when we commemorate the attempt by Guy Fawkes to blow up the Houses of Parliament several hundred years ago, with fireworks. People have them in their back garden, and there are bigger displays in parks etc. This year, instead of walking to Alexandra Palace to watch the fireworks, I thought I'd watch them from my balcony. I thought I'd have a pretty good view, and I was right. They play music there, but I can't hear it from my flat, and I wanted to listen to Kate Bush's masterpiece Hounds of Love anyway. I'd been thinking about it on my way home, but I hadn't realised how appropriate it was: the first song is Running up that Hill, which I would have had to do to get to Ally Pally. Hounds of Love fitted too in that it has simulated gunshots, reminding me of fireworks; then it was The Big Sky (nuff said), followed by Mother stands for comfort, which is quieter and coincided with the less spectacular part of the display. Then it was Cloudbusting, which speaks for itself. The second side of the album, meanwhile, is a dazzling concept based around the thoughts and feelings of a woman who's about to drown. It is full of spookiness, melancholy, terror, mystery, and music of the most stunning beauty. By the last two songs, Hello Earth and The Morning Fog, I was in tears. From delight to tears in 45 minutes! I pondered the amazing synchronicity of the music and the fireworks, as I reflected on the sheer brilliance of this woman. Her songs, singing, concepts, production, playing and insight are simply awesome. And she's always been way, way ahead of the game. She was one of the first people to use a Fairlight, back when it was still a new and exciting tool full of possibilities. She was making "World Music" way before it was fashionable, as with the Australian stylings on The Dreaming; she was using Celtic music influences too, almost from the word go: The Sensual World features Davey Spillane, Bill Whelan (who created the music for Riverdance) and Breton harpist Alan Stivell. One song on her last album features Jeff Beck, British comedian Lenny Henry, Prince and the Trio Bulgarka!! And it all WORKS! This post may seem self-indulgent, but I figured you folks would understand! I just had to share this deep moment of Musical and Spiritual connection with the good burghers of Jonitown. Azeem in London NP: Guess who! It's Kate, singing The Fog, from The Sensual World, a song of divine grace and beauty ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 13:53:26 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Music of the Heart: GO NJC - --- Mark in Seattle wrote: > In high school they showed us 'Night and Fog' which is still one of > the most gut-wrenching, eye-opening experiences I remember from my > youth. I also remember being shown 'Night and Fog' in 9th grade in '68. It was the first time I had seen actual footage of the Holocaust. Gut-wrenching is putting it mildly. Over the last 20 years, I have recorded quite a number of Holocaust-related items from TV and cable. My own personal answer to those who would deny that the destruction of 6 million Jews (along with millions of non-Jews) ever happenned. Never again. Brian ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 17:03:35 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Jennifer Kimball (VLJC) Howdy all! Delurking today (yeah right), but I am definitely not going to post tomorrow so all 500 lurkers can post. I'm saying Happy Birthday Joni in advance. Joni, if you're reading this I want you to know you look Great for 56 or any age for that matter. I had that yacht shipped to you last week, so I hope you're home to sign for it :-{) I'm also posting to mention Jennifer Kimball from The Story. I never did buy a Story's CD, but I do like Jonatha Brooke. This morning in our local paper I read in the entertainment section that she'll be performing at a very small small coffee house here in Ft. Myers. I can't believe that I hadn't heard about it earlier, but that's our newspaper for ya. She has two shows tonight, and the first show is already sold out which isn't difficult since only about 40 people can fit. So I'm heading down to the coffee house in a few minutes to see if tickets ($7.) are available for the second show. I know nothing about her, but the article compares her to Shawn and Joni. We'll see. I'll let you know how the show went (if I get to go). Have a great weekend everyone! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 14:40:49 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Re:Slurs, DRJD (final thoughts) Debra wrote: > That wouldn't be in character for Joni any more than spewing racial hatred > would be. BUT, using a term that's like a spit in the face to a very large > group of people, NOT because of what they're DOING (lawyering, loan sharking, > evangelizing, selling, legislating; all forms of "wheeling and dealing"), but > ONLY BECAUSE OF WHO THEY ARE, is insensitive and distasteful. Even after > reading all the explanations and dismissals and "this isn't importants" said in > various ways, I still don't understand how Joni could write this. The word > wizard she is could have come up with something else if she'd felt it was > important to do so. I think it's just a matter of honest differences in interpretation for those who have felt compelled to "explain" it, like myself. I have *truly* always thought Joni was deliberately and intentionally pricking racists and racisim in this album. After living with that belief for 20+ years, it is difficult to now consider whether she actually did the opposite - that she callously, thoughtlessly and irresponsibly used racial slurs in this album. > For a fuller experience in being a black man, I suggest she disguise herself > again and try to get a cab to stop for her in New York City or get waited on in > a store before white person me does. I've often seen what happens; maybe she > hasn't. I just finished reading an article in the week's People magazine about this happening repeatedly to actor Danny Glover in New York City. I was astonished. He is quoted as saying that he cannot beleive this is still happening at the end of the 21st century. Neither can I. He plans to file a complaint. As for Joni dressing up as a black man, some may think she is appropriating an identity of something that does not belong to her. Others may she is again attempting the prick the consciouness of people and think it is courageous. It depends on individual interpretation and perception. > In saying this, I am NOT calling Joni a racist, which is how some people have > taken this discussion. It seemed to me that there were a few posts that, while not calling her a racist, strongly implied that she should be lumped in with them for using the offensive terminology, irregardless of her context or intention. That troubled me - it's somehow very Orwellian. > That's all my at-the-moment-crabby self has to say on this subject. I get > annoyed when very complex subjects are turned off or reduced to something > simple so it can be dismissed. I agree with you here, Debra. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:06:19 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Rachmaninoff, Slurs, DRJD From the first time I heard it, I have assumed that the title characters in OTIS AND MARLENA were a pimp and his hooker, checking in preparatory to working the expensive hotel. I imagine that Joni Mitchell saw a newspaper headline about Muslims "sticking up" WashingTUNN and shortly before or after saw a young man and woman unloading a car in front of a hotel whose other guests were all quite old. Or..she didn't see it, but someone told her about it. She reflected (I continue to imagine) that O & M, on one hand, and their prospective clientele, seeking relaxation and cosmetic beautification, on the other, were both--depending on your point of view--either corrupt or just making it through the day. She reflected (I continue to imagine) that O & M, on one hand, and their prospective clientele, on the other, were equally disengaged from the serious effort at social change (through tactics perhaps questionable) symbolized by the Muslims. Typically elusive/allusive lyric by The Master. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:08:03 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Rachmaninoff, Slurs, DRJD Kakki, you are so right about DJRD being the most brilliant. D LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:33:44 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Rachmaninoff, Slurs, DRJD Russell Said: << DRJD is definitely one of my top # 3 JM recordings...and had held #1 spot for many years (with Hejira) I have listened to this one more than any other one and am still amazed by it and thankful it exists. >> I noticed today at the record store that they're now offering all their Joni's in HDCD. Is there a significant difference in the HDCD version sound-wise? My CD player is NOT an HDCD player, but I bought S&L in HDCD and wow, it really jumps out at ya'. I'm thinking of upgrading my reular Joni CD's to HDCD and donating my old ones to the library... Bob NP: The Allman Bros., "Mountain Jam" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:36:37 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Music of the Heart: GO Julie the celluloid Queen says: << Does anyone have the following memory? Iin the 60's and 70's--- once in a great while, busloads of school kids were shuttled off to take a field trip to a matinee screening to see a film considered to be extraordinary in that it's message was wholesome while teaching the students something meaningful about the human experience? >> No Julie, but my school in New Mexico used to give us movie passes if we made straight A's, which I did. I remember going to see "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" with my pass...probably NOT a film they would have taken a field trip to see! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:40:44 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Jennifer Kimball NJC Jimmy said: << This morning in our local paper I read in the entertainment section that she'll be performing at a very small small coffee house here in Ft. Myers. >> I was hoping to catch her show here in Greenville this week, but I was just too exhausted Weds. to drag my butt out...I hope she's not TOO good, then I'll have missed ANOTHER good show... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:43:08 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: JM screensaver 2nd edition now available Wow! This screensaver is REALLY nice...it changes to about 12 different pictures, album covers, paintings, photos, job well done, my friend! I give it a hearty 2 thumbs up! Even my wife, after rolling her eyes, had to admit that it was very nice. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 17:23:34 -0500 From: Julie Webb Subject: Re: Music of the Heart: GO NJC Brian Gross wrote: > . > > Over the last 20 years, I have recorded quite a number of Holocaust-related > items from TV and cable. My own personal answer to those who would deny that > the destruction of 6 million Jews (along with millions of non-Jews) ever > happenned. > Dear Brian, There is currently a pretty powerful (traveling) Anne Frank exhibit at our local Jewish Community Center which my daughter and I saw today. As you probably know, it's a horrific experience to explain the Holocaust to children. It has a way of making me feel helpless and ashamed of the human race. It was one thing for me to study about the Holocaust in my small Catholic/Christian town while growing up----Hitler's Germany seemed so so long ago, but now that I live in Pittsburgh's largest Jewish neighborhood, it's become quite personal for me because our kind next door neighbor, Larry, is a Holocaust survivor who's son was concieved in Auschwitz....and right next door to him are the sweetest non-Jewish professors from Poland. It brings to light that it didn't at all happen that long ago, which makes it all the more chilling as my generation sits so smug with our sometimes facist way of discouraging free thought through it's politically correct agenda... how evolved we have become...I don't think so. I ended up explaining to my daughter in my inarticulate way of talking about difficult things, that "some people are incredibly evil and convincing" to people who do not learn to discern.... Tonight, by the way, Im going to hear a religious music performance of Psalms (in English,) sung by a spiritually inspired Jewish singing group.. Since **really** reading the Bible (for the first time,) this summer, I found myself becoming moved by the beautiful imagery and poetry in the Psalms....When you think about how long ago that they were written and yet that they still manage to capture our current modern day joys and concerns ----it's remarkable. I must go to get ready to hear these folks, -Julie Z. Webb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 00:33:52 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC The godlike genius of Kate Bush - and Fireworks NJC Long before Halloween, All Saints Eve, was what it is now it was called chevin(spelling?). On that night, people thanked God for the harvest etc. They would set a big fire and burn a man on top of it as a sacrifice, later changed to an effigy. Sound familiar? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 00:33:55 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Slurs, DRJD (final thoughts) > She skips over the verse with Tar Baby in it and > goes directly from verse 1 to "in a plane flying back to winter..." with a "D r > e a ea eam on" in between. I take that as a sign that she also has rethought > this issue we've been discussing. That sounds very possible debra. I also agree that it is not possible, no matter how compassionate or liberal one thinks one is, to truly understand life from anothers perspective.We each live in different worlds. the mistake is in thinking we all sahre a common reality. We don't and never will. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 00:33:45 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Slurs, DRJD (final thoughts) > > > I just finished reading an article in the week's People magazine about this > happening repeatedly to actor Danny Glover in New York City. I was > astonished. He is quoted as saying that he cannot beleive this is still > happening at the end of the 21st century. Neither can I. He plans to file > a complaint. NOT referring to Danny here but this made me wonder if it is true that what 'we give out, we get back'.I find it so disheartening to see/ hear one oppressed group doing exactly the same thing to another. Maybe until we ALL stand against ALL oppression it will stop. Till then, it will continue and we all will continue to be hurt. > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 00:33:49 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Music of the Heart: GO NJC > My own personal answer to those who would deny that > the destruction of 6 million Jews (along with millions of non-Jews) ever > happenned. If only it hadn't. Millions of human beings considered shit and destroyed. Unfortunately nothing much has changed as a result. Rascism and homophobia still abound, the latter being sanctified. When it came to compensate the survivors, homosexuals were excluded because we were at 'fault'.Martin Luther had a dream and like most dreams it remains a dream. becuase we refuse to make it a reality. > > > Never again. > > Brian > > ===== > "No paper thin walls, no folks above > No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" > > yeah, right > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 00:34:00 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Music of the Heart: GO NJC The school film I remember seeing was Mary Queen Of Scots. Mainly because the scene where Vanessa Redgrave(as Mary), in a blood red dress, lays her head on the block, her arms outstreched left its mark. I vividly recall that sceene now and it gives me the shivers. I was about 13. The next school film was Don't Look Now, I was 15, the year i left school. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 00:40:48 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Music of the Heart: GO NJC Julie Webb wrote: > Brian Gross wrote: > > > . > > > > Over the last 20 years, I have recorded quite a number of Holocaust-related > > items from TV and cable. My own personal answer to those who would deny that > > the destruction of 6 million Jews (along with millions of non-Jews) ever > > happenned. > > > > Dear Brian, > There is currently a pretty powerful (traveling) Anne Frank exhibit at our > local Jewish Community Center which my daughter and I saw today. As you probably > know, it's a horrific experience to explain the Holocaust to children. It has a > way of making me feel helpless and ashamed of the human race. It was one thing for > me to study about the Holocaust in my small Catholic/Christian town while growing > up----Hitler's Germany seemed so so long ago, but now that I live in Pittsburgh's > largest Jewish neighborhood, it's become quite personal for me because our kind > next door neighbor, Larry, is a Holocaust survivor who's son was concieved in > Auschwitz....and right next door to him are the sweetest non-Jewish professors from > Poland. It brings to light that it didn't at all happen that long ago, which makes > it all the more chilling as my generation sits so smug with our sometimes facist > way of discouraging free thought through it's politically correct agenda... how > evolved we have become...I don't think so. I guess different life experiences affect people differently. personally, i have never found the Holcaust to be some dim and distant happening. i look around me today at the world and see it never really stopped.As for pc i don't see it as discouraging free thought but discourageing thoulessness and hurtfull beahviour and the type of attitude that allowed the Holocaust to happen. I can see how some of it has become ridiculous, like not being able to call a blackboard a blackboard anymore. This is unfortunatee becuase it plays into the hands of those that really do wish to discouraghe free thought and free life. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 20:43:38 EST From: Drewdix@aol.com Subject: Re: Thanksgiving rev./&DJRD <> Thanks Mark- I have taken foot out of mouth. BTW, I am looking for DJRD on CD, and don't have much experience with ordering records other than through the mainstream. Where the heck can I get it? (Virgin, Tower, no go, even here in the NY area) - --Drew ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 20:49:50 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Kirk Gray Subject: DJRD hi everyone i listened to DJRD three times this evening, prompted by reading so many intriguing posts about its language. and i was struck by a number of things. first is that this album has never been a favorite one of joni's for me -- i'm still figuring out how to listen to it. but i'm growing into a new kind of appreciation for its difficulties. i do love that joni mitchell's music is complicated, challenging -- not "easy" although certainly some of it slips so quickly and thoroughly into my consciousness and body rhythms. i think that since i am a writer i try to understand her music (and other artists i admire) through other models, literary specifically. DJRD seems to me (tonight, anyway) a step away from the more interior, turned-inside albums (at least previous to this) and that it's more of a "thinking" text -- a piece of work that shows a mind working on other, outside questions (including race and nationality). i find myself looking to other writers' careers for a context to put this into. i can't find quite the analogue, but i'm thinking something along the lines of virginia woolf's last novel "between the acts" -- which is choppy and pieced and driving at fundamental questions of art making life; the nature of representing history; the relationships that structure knowledge. it's a novel that is a decided shift from her much more interior work like "mrs. dalloway" or of course "to the lighthouse." something about the texture and layers and different sounds and stories of DJRD remind me of this novel. also by the fact that for me both are hard to love, hard to know -- but beyond worthy of careful attention. do others look to different models to think about joni's body of work? many of you seem to be musicians so perhaps you don't need to -- maybe if you are a musician you can approach these albums on their own bases. what about visual art? i know it's possible to think about textures and layers in that sense, and since joni is a visual artist as well, maybe that model works well too. just pondering. thanks for urging me back to this record through the language debate -- it's a joy to find that value can grow and change, isn't it? - -- emily ps: thanks to all who wrote me about my dream. BTW, i went to see the brooklyn museum's "sensation" exhibit today and had the strangest sensation of looking at the pieces with double eyes -- mine, but also wondering what joni would think! pps: i, too, was touched and happy at the story of wally visiting joni and i hope he feels better soon! ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #500 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?