From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #493 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 2 1999 Volume 04 : Number 493 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- (NJC) Millennium Countdown [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Racial Slurs ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: (NJC) Millennium Countdown [catman ] Re: Brian Wilson (LONG) - NJC [catman ] Re: "racial slurs" njc - and welfare moms (long) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: "racial slurs" ["Catherine McKay" ] Gene Shay & The Tinkers (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Millenium Countdown (6 Degrees) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Patricia Barber again... [Les Irvin ] Michael McDermott Shubas 11/3/99 ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Re: "racial slurs" [luvart@snet.net] Re: "racial slurs" [luvart@snet.net] Suggestion For Branches ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Racial Slurs (long) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: tape trees, DAT, and catch up.... first post [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Racial Slurs (long) NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Racial Slurs (long) NJC [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Racial Slurs [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Racial Slurs [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) - [very long] [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Urge for going - an enigma [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) ["P. Henry" ] Lost Emails [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 11:23:41 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: (NJC) Millennium Countdown Hi Gang! Hope I'm not unknowingly interrupting the excellent, serious discussion on racial slurs, but last week I went back to lurking on the digest (was receiving each post singularly), ironically because of the prevalence of bigoted attitudes reflected in the statements of a very few. Somehow reading those same posts in the digest form doesn't disgust and effect me as deeply as reading them as singularly read "contributions" to threads. Anyway, here's the latest installment of KINK's Millennium countdown to be Jonified. May I say I've been so impressed by how you music sluts can do this! I know I couldn't! And Bob, now that you don't get the list at work, ya know maybe it would be appropriate for you (King Slut) to come up with "alternative versions" after the established version has already been heard around the world. ;-) 69 Frank Zappa    68 Indigo Girls    67 Ella Fitzgerald    66 Creedence Clearwater Revival    65 Prince    64 Steely Dan    63 The Who    62 Michael Jackson    61 The Police 60 James Brown Peace Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 19:46:41 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Racial Slurs Scott, you said this so well that I wish I had written it myself. Duality is a constant theme running through Joni's work, whether it's the duality between man and woman, black and white, rich and poor, sacred and profane, or whatever else. It's a particularly dominant theme throughout DJRD as well. I find it impossible to conceive of Joni as being anti-anyone. As has been mentioned by others, even when she slags "lawyers and loan sharks", I highly doubt she's referring to ALL of them (at least in the lawyer case - has anyone ever met a "nice" loan shark? Well OK, the banks - they pretend to be on your side, while charging outrageous service fees and providing little or no interest unless you happen to have more money invested than the average joe will likely ever see - you could call them loan sharks!) Interesting the different views people have of who the "tar baby" and the "Great White Wonder" are supposed to be. A lot of people have suggested that Joni herself is the GWW and the "tar baby" is a black man she may be about to have an affair with. I tended to see them as two men, middle-aged or older, who have met in this tropical location and find themselves talking things over, over a glass of rum. The white guy is thinking of the black guy as the "tar baby", while the black guy is thinking of the white guy (sarcastically, of course) as "The great white wonder". They both think they know a lot about each other and, as they talk, they realize they don't know as much as they thought they did. There may be hope for lines of communication opening up between these two who were previously set in their ways of thinking about the "other". Then again, maybe it's just the rum. Maybe they're both Joni. The other thing is, the picture on the cover of Joni-as-black-man saying "Mooslems, heh-heh-heh", confused me. I couldn't conceive of her as being in any way racist or anti-Moslem or whatever, so the conclusion I came to is - - it's yet another case of duality. This guy (Joni) is having a lot of yucks about the fact that people (the Florida ones this time, in Otis and Marlena) are out for fun and sun while Muslims stick up Washington. They're not sure who these people are, they may or may not be Muslims, or Arabs, or some "foreigners", and aren't even sure how to pronounce it - is it Mooz-lems or Muz-lems It reminds me of people who say "Eye-talian" for "Italian". I think it may be a commentary on how ignorant we can all be of what's going around us, to the point where we couldn't even be bothered to find out the proper pronunciation of a name. (?) Just a thought. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 20:00:54 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: (NJC) Millennium Countdown It is amazing how diffferent people interpret mails differently. I cannot remember the last time I saw a bigoted "contribution" or indeed, contribution, on this list. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 20:07:11 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Brian Wilson (LONG) - NJC I envy those who can cry easily. I usually have to be at bursting point before it happens yet i know it feels so good and healing afterwards. Witholding my tears was a weapon I used as a child-no matter what i never made a sound. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 20:44:41 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: "racial slurs" njc - and welfare moms (long) MG said: "In my 40 years, I have been called "stupid" or "rude." Because I am partially deaf, I either answer a question so absurdly when I don't properly hear as to appear dumb or I don't hear at all and ignore the person." That, unfortunately, is a problem that plagues hard-of-hearing people. You can't see the disability, so you make certain assumptions about the person's intelligence. People do this with any disability - people with cerebral palsy are often assumed to be mentally retarded, when they are often of average of above intelligence, but lack motor skills. People shout at those who are hard-of-hearing or deaf, or speak to them without looking at them, so that the deaf person can't use body language or visual signs to help them decode what is being said to them. Even sillier, of course, is people who shout at people where there's a language problem, as if shouting it will make it easier to understand. My husband lost his hearing - when, we're not totally sure, since it didn't really come to light until he had some problems at work with misinterpreting things that were said to him and was then sent to a doctor who found out most of the cilia in one of his ears were completely gone. (If only I could find a way to make him wear his hearing aid so the rest of us aren't deafened by the fact that he turns the TV up full blast - he doesn't like wearing the hearing aid, as if anyone would even notice it, it's so small. I constantly remind him that I've been wearing coke bottle glasses since I was 7, so what's his problem?) MG also said: "I have been called a welfare freeloader during a period of my life when I was supporting 3 children on a job that paid $9.75 an hour and needed food stamps to help me over the bump. I can remember being on one blind date and when talking about my children being asked: "how many different fathers."" Yet another instance of people making assumptions about others and their lives, as if they have any right to do so. In the last ten years or so, there has certainly been a trend to viewing anyone who requires social services as some kind of welfare bum. And this at a time when more and more people are losing their jobs. How ironic! I've heard many a story of people living in nice houses who lost their jobs and, though they may still be living in the nice house (in the hope of getting a job, or waiting until they can sell it), still require the services of food banks from time to time to get them through the week. In our own case, when my husband lost his job three years ago, after his severance pay had run out, we were in that very situation. I was at my wit's end scrounging for whatever food we had in the cupboard, looking for creative ways to deal with rice and lentils. I never did have to go to the food bank, but I came darn close. And we did end up selling the house and moving to a cheaper one - and we're still finding it hard, despite the fact that I make pretty good money. Even though I was raised to help those with less than I have and not to think of myself as in any way better than anyone because of race, colour or creed, this small near-brush with almost-poverty brought it home to me much clearer. I don't feel sorry for myself (well, sometimes!) but I really realize now, especially now that I talk to others who relate similar stories about themselves or family or friends) that it really could be me who needs the welfare cheque or the food bank - you never know when something could happen to put you in that boat. And yet, blaming the poor for being poor, or the unemployed for being unemployed, is very popular these days. MG concluded with: "I think that as a privileged white, I can read and I can learn and I can become more aware, but I can never, ever really "own" the history and pain of people who have been systemically ripped of their status of human beings not all that many years ago." You're quite right. Most of us will probably only get a small taste of that feeling, and the taste is bitter and sad. It would be presumptuous of anyone who, by accident of birth, ends up in a privileged class, to say "I know what you feel" to another who, by accident of their birth, ends up in a low position. But we can imagine how they might feel, and maybe that's a beginning. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:15:52 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Millennium Countdown Penny says: And Bob, now that you don't get the list at work, ya > know maybe it would be appropriate for you (King Slut) to come up with > "alternative versions" after the established version has already been > heard around the world. >> Penny, thanks as always for the list... Bob, sneaking on at work despite his better judgement... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 16:16:51 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Racial Slurs (NJC) Scott Price originally wrote: > I think that by this time in her career Joni's interest in black culture > had progressed beyond fascination; she felt she understood African > Americans enough to really identify with their histories and struggles > and related to this so deeply that she donned the makeup and pretended > to be black for the album cover. She *assumed* the identity. This was > her way of saying "I *know* what you feel...I understand and have this > huge empathy..." I wrote: > > I'd suggest that if Joni believed that (that she knows what > > African Americans feel), she was wrong, and it's arrogant of her to > > claim that sort of community with them. (Note: I had meant wrong here in the sense of "incorrect" or "inaccurate.") Scott wrote: > Agreed, unless one has walked in *those* shoes, one cannot *fully* > comprehend what it's like. But, if one is perceptive, open-minded, and has > first-hand experience...[snip] What? How does Joni have first-hand experience of how African Americans feel? Or of being the target of anti-black racism? > Taken to the next level, if this is arrogant and wrongful, then should any > of us seek relationships of any kind outside our own races, religions, or > orientations, because anyone who wasn't of the same creed or color would > only be arrogant if they claimed to be understanding or sympathetic? No, I think claiming to be sympathetic or to be outraged by injustice is very different from claiming that one can "really identify" with the sufferers of injustice (to "know what they feel") and thinking that one can truly assume that identity (when one is really just appropriating that identity); and *understanding* (comprehending) is different from *feeling.* I think inclusive, diverse communities are very important, and I didn't say we shouldn't seek them, I only said we shouldn't claim they exist where they don't. So the following best sums it up for me: MG wrote: > I think that as a privileged white, I can read and I can learn and I > can become more aware, but I can never, ever really "own" the history > and pain of people who have been systemically ripped of their status > of human beings not all that many years ago." Catherine wrote: > But we can imagine how they might feel, and maybe that's a beginning. Take care, - --David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 21:32:27 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: "racial slurs" Helen said: "One of my best friends is part-Maori. I call him "boonga", and he calls me "white trash". It's not disrespectful, it's not hurtful, it's said totally in jest, between two people who respect each other immensely. I would never dream of saying something like this to anyone else, and I would never say it (to my friend) in a way that would be hurtful." Jeez, Helen, you've got to be really careful with this. I know what you're talking about, but someone else, hearing you two talking that way, might be the one to take offense at it. If it occurs in the workplace and a third party hears it, you could end up with a grievance or a human rights issue on your hands. I only say that because a similar situation happened to me. I don't want to go into a lot of detail about it, but two female workers I was managing used to call each other names like "bitch" and so on. They were good friends and meant nothing by it. Unfortunately, another person in the office overheard this and interpreted it the "wrong" way (which really shouldn't surprise anyone because, let's face it, people shouldn't be using this kind of language, even in jest). When that particular third party was laid off (she was a temp and I was running a call centre, where we often had to hire people in a hurry to handle projects, and then lay them off as the calls began to die down - all those hired were aware they could be there for a few days, a week, or a few months), she began to make all sorts of allegations about the way the place was run, that people were using racist/sexist language and so on. I never even knew that kind of talk was going on until this other person made a stink over it (she also tried to claim that she was laid off due to racism - she wasn't white, but then, neither were half the other people who worked there), homophobia (because another guy who was laid off at the same time was gay) and I don't know what else (because a third one, laid off at the same time) was white and straight, so what the alleged discrimination was there, I really don't know. In retrospect, I think this person was just going through a really rough time in her life, because she wasn't trying to sue anyone, there was no financial motive for her to do what she did, she didn't want her job back, and she had taken full advantage of having us pay her taxi fare back and forth because she was working a late shift. There were other indications that she wasn't totally stable. Having said that, I'll tell you what I told the two women who were calling each other names: I understand you don't "mean" anything by it, but it wasn't professional and doesn't go down well in a work environment. I'm not telling you that you shouldn't talk this way with your friend, provided you both understand it the same way - but just be very careful of who else might be listening. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 21:39:37 -0500 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Gene Shay & The Tinkers (NJC) Steve at steve@psitech.com reported a play on the Shaylist for a track off his latest CD - >The Tinker's Own/The Bergen-An Buachaillin Ban Medley/ >Bending The Banshee's Ear/self That is really great, Steve. I remember reading an article about Gene Shay, written by Mark Moss in Sing Out!, a while back. He is obviously one of the most respected DJs in the US - and looking at his playlists for the last few months, I can see why. Only wish we could get him over here. After reading your post, I went looking to see if I could find a biography of Gene Shay on the internet. Couldn't find one but I was pleased to find this small Joni mention, though, in an article entitled 'Glory Days' at http://www.retroradio.ca/art3.html In a story mainly about Ed Skiaky, one of the first 'free-form' DJs, I found the following:- "Back then, in the early '70s, FM radio was a wild and woolly frontier with few limitations. These DJs had the opportunity to play just about whatever they wanted and in doing so broke some of the biggest (now "classic") rock acts of all time - Springsteen, Billy Joel, Yes, Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull, John Mayall and Tom Petty, among others. The jocks were free to play album cuts - any song from a record, not necessarily the "hit single" as pre-established by a record company. Today that kind of freedom is unheard of. But back then it helped establish the artist as an artist - not a hit factory. >>snip snip>> Eventually Sciaky got into the folk-rock scene, spending time at clubs like the Main Point, the Gilded Cage or the Second Fret, where he taped an intimate concert with Joni Mitchell. That show and many others were also broadcast on Gene Shay's folk show on WHAT-AM where Sciaky helped out. >>snip snip>> [Ed Sciaky said,] "Gene Shay was my mentor. His casual interview technique rubbed off on me and I think I patterned myself on his kind of lack of style. It was very different from that Top 40 AM screaming style. I just tried to be real." >>>> Here's hoping he plays more tracks in future. All the best, Steve. PaulC PS Don't forget to send a copy of 'Bending The Banshee's Ear" to Mike Harding at BBC Radio 2 and start planning your European tour!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:54:06 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Millenium Countdown (6 Degrees) Penny gave us the latest list, these are the ones that I came up with, I'll leave the rest to whoever: Indigo Girls: Cover "Tangled Up in Blue" by Dylan (Have they done a Joni cover? seems like they have done A Case of You, but I'm not sure) Ella Fitzgerald: Has recorded Summertime which Joni has done also (Hers is on The Porgy & Bess Songbook with Louis Armstrong) Creedence: This one's just for fun...Springsteen's covered Fogerty's "Who'll Stop the Rain" in concert, Nils Lofgren was/is in Bruce's band , Nils does a cover of Randy Newman's "Baltimore" on his "Nils" solo LP, Randy Newman also wrote "Mama Told Me Not to Come" which is sampled on PM Dawn's "Jesus Wept" CD...PM Dawn played at Joni's Jazz. (Not the shortest route, but one with a couple of fun turns anyway). Prince: Wendy & Lisa have recorded with both Prince & Joni. (Forget the Joni track off the top of my head, from CMIARS or DED I'm sure...) Steely Dan: Michael McDonald sings backup on a couple of Dan tracks, and also with Joni on "Good Friends". The Who: They cover the old R&B chestnut "Don't Do It", also covered by The Band on "Rock of Ages". Joni appears with The Band on "The Last Waltz". Michael Jackson: Performs "The Girl Is Mine" with Sir Paul, who produces JT's first LP on Apple. James Brown: Thanks to the Tape Trees, I know that the Godfather of Soul (from SC no less)also covers "How Do you Stop" (interestingly, I heard this cover JUST this morning while dubbing TT's for my buddy John Calimee) I'll leave Zappa and The Police for whoever wants 'em... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 15:46:24 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Patricia Barber again... This little excerpt is from an interview with Patricia Barber on Barnes and Noble's website: B&N: ...who were primary references? Patricia: At one point I'd say pop musicians. Joni Mitchell comes to mind. Les - still carrying the PB torch... NP: Patricia Barber "Cafe Blue" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:40:44 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Michael McDermott Shubas 11/3/99 Michael McDermott has a very big show tomorrow night at Shuba's in Chicago. Shubas is located at the corner of Belmont and Southport. This will be A Live Broadcast on the Internet around the world! The Chicago Tribunes' MetroMix will broadcast the show on the internet and record the show for a future live recording! Tickets are only $7 and the doors open at 9pm and Michael will go on at 10PM SHARP! Please pass this on to anyone you might think would be interested. Thanks for your time and support. THIS SHOW WILL BE ONE OF HIS BEST EVER! HE IS PUMPED! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 18:16:47 EST From: Kleronomos@aol.com Subject: tape trees, DAT, and catch up.... first post I just recently returned to the list after an absence of about a year. Looking forward to catching up on the lastest buzz on the true artist, and of getting to know some of you. I would appreciate an email or a posted response from anyone who can tell me how to become involved in a tape tree for unreleased Joni music / concerts. I just got a DAT machine, and would like to receive DAT clones, and provide cassette tapes..... however the tree operates. Also, I was wondering how the gathering went (I forget where exactly it was to be... New England, somewhere, I think.... ). It was going to be held at the home of one of the list members. It sounded like it was going to be a great time. Thanks! DanH ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 12:42:22 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: "racial slurs" - now NJC and an apology I said: >One of my best friends is part-Maori. I call him "boonga", and >he calls me "white trash". It's not disrespectful, it's not hurtful, it's >said totally in jest, between two people who respect each other immensely. >I would never dream of saying something like this to anyone else, and I >would never say it (to my friend) in a way that would be hurtful. And Catherine replied: >Jeez, Helen, you've got to be really careful with this. I know what you're >talking about, but someone else, hearing you two talking that way, might be >the one to take offense at it. I KNEW I was letting myself in for trouble by posting this, but I wanted to make my point - somewhat ineffectively, it appears. In retrospect I probably shouldn't have said anything, Let me first apologise if my words offended anyone - not my intention, believe me! I was just trying to give an example to illustrate my point (which I feel the need to stress again) which was simply that it's not necessarily what you say, but how you say it. My friend and I have a good understanding of each other, and a deep respect, and what we say to each other is between us, and no one else. If someone were to overhear us, and take offense, I would immediately point out that what they overheard was a private conversation, and doesn't involve them whatsoever. We have a history of "name-calling" for some reason. I also call him anal-retentive, and he calls me a "big-headed know-it-all". Still said in jest, and it probably would have been a better example than the one I used above. Sorry (again). OK, if anyone still doesn't get it, let me know - I'll try to explain it better! But I am not, nor have I ever been racist. I've had enough name-calling in my own life, from a very early age, to know better! Maybe the sort of thing I described above is more tolerated over here - we don't have quite the level of racism that the US does. It does exist, but the history is different, and not so violent (IMO - which is all I can give). But I'd also like to add a little excerpt from "The Stand" by Stephen King, which sums up the human race beautifully (IMO): "Show me a man or a woman alone, and I'll show you a saint. Give me two and they'll fall in love. Give me three and they'll invent that charming thing we call 'society'. Give me four and they'll build a pyramid. Give me five and they'll make one an outcast. Give me six and they'll reinvent prejudice. Give me seven and in seven years they'll reinvent warfare. Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home." I want to say a lot more on this subject, but I'm not feeling terribly eloquent, and I don't want my words to be misconstrued, so I'll be quiet for now. But if the muse strikes, you may hear more! But I am enjoying the thread! Helen _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 19:47:23 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) In a message dated 11/2/1999 3:46:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, badwolff@angelfire.com writes: << that said, the fact, which you've conceded is that some fairly accomplished players of Joni's music have been unable to get a good playing of this rather simple melody by utilizing the chords as they have been transcribed. >> Here ye, here ye! May I interrupt? When I first learned this song, when Hits came out, I distinctly remember asking the list why it didn't sound right the way it was written in the book. Specifically, the intro does NOT work...when you hear that first low note come in after the delicate picking (which I did figure out, fairly closely). I had wondered if on the recording, she may have over dubbed the second part of the intro with a 2nd track. The simple chords shown in the songbook just do not sound right to me, so I would like to give Pat's chords a try..if he would kindly re-send them to me. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 20:57:15 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC SHEPARD MURDER CASE GOES TO THE JURY I had no idea the trial was moving this fast. Let us pray for justice for Matthew Shepard and begin to work on our ability to forgive, for they knew not what they did. Vince Henry Messer wrote: > BULLETIN FROM LARAMIE. > SHEPARD MURDER CASE GOES TO THE JURY; > VERDICT ON MCKINNEY BEING DECIDED. > FROM JEFFREY MONTGOMERY, trijeffm@aol.com > > (Laramie, Wyoming; 2 November 1999, 3:00pm, mst)-----The McKinney murder > case as been given to the jury, after only a week of testimony. At about > 11:15am (MST) today, Judge Barton Voigt sent the jury out to begin > deliberations on the several charges, including first-degree murder, > kidnapping, and robbery, that McKinney faces for his role in the October > 12998 murder of Matthew Shepard. > > The morning began with Judge Voigt reviewing 50 instructions for the jury. > Closing arguments from Prosecutor Cal Rerucha and Defense team leader, Dion > Custis, followed. > > Rerucha delivered and cogent and compelling retelling of the events and > conspiracy that ended with Shepard's vicious killing. Recalling the > ill-fated meeting of Shepard, McKinney and Russell Henderson at the > Fireside Lounge, where the prosecution maintains the plot to waylay and rob > Shepard began, Rerucha likened the scene to "two wolves watching a lamb," > before the three left the bar together. The three left as part of a ruse by > McKinney and Henderson by which Shepard may have believed that they were > going to have a sexual encounter. Shortly after, McKinney would announce > to Shepard, "we're not gay, and we're gonna jack you," signaling the start > of the beating and terror that would end with Shepard unconscious and tied > to a fence just outside of Laramie. > > "It's along time on the road to Hell, not knowing what will befall you when > you're being terrorized and threatened," Rerucha told the jury, describing > what Matthew Shepard's last ride must have been like. > > The prosecutor ended his presentation to the jury by describing Shepard > and making a plea. Shepard was "not an animal to be hung on a fencehe > loved, he cried" said Rerucha. "He needs your ability to follow the law in > this case." > > Shepard is the "missing piece of the puzzle. He fills every corner of this > room," he concluded. > > Describing his client variously as "not that bright," "a drug addict," by > his nickname, "Dopey," "ugly in all respects," and "unsophisticated," Dion > Custis admitted that McKinney is unsympathetic and that he killed Shepard. > In answering the question, of "Why?" which is what he told the jury was > their ultimate job, he suggested that methamphetamine addiction was the > answer. McKinney was acting in a drug-influenced rage, after an alleged > sexual advance by Shepard. Although he beat Shepard with anywhere from > 12-20 blows to the head, McKinney didn't know what he was doing, was out of > control, was in chaos, and so should be guilty of nothing more than > manslaughter. > > Many observers here think that a verdict may be reached as early as this > afternoon or evening. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 17:55:07 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: feeling 'connected' (NJC) > As I wrote about this invigorating experience in my diary I was trying to > think of a word to describe the way I felt...and "connected" was the only > thing that seemed to fit...I felt so connected up there, to the earth, to > the sky to the water, to my boyfriend, to God, to me....do u know what I > mean? That icey cold water, the pain of it waking me up to all the things > that really matter...releasing me from the everyday pains of work and > socialising.... > > I know this sounds silly, but ever since then I've been really trying to > keep "connecting" ... taking my shoes off at the beach to feel the wet sand > inbetween my toes, stopping to smell the flowers on my daily walks, walking > in the rain feeling the moisture on my face, hugging someone and holding > onto them till the hug sinks in..... > > What a good feeling it is...to feel 'connected' > > Just thoughts > Ange > Sydney Oh Ange, this is *not* silly at all! This is beautiful! What a wonderful epiphany you seem to have had. Thank you so much for sharing it! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 21:19:40 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: "racial slurs" At 11:58 PM 11/1/99 -0500, Vince Lavieri wrote: >But: a very big Yes, I am saying its not alright. I'll be blunt: I am part >Polish, part Italian. If one of family or friends calls me a Polack or a wop, I >take it one way. If someone else uses the same term, it is offensive and >derogatory, for they are not a part of the group, they are using a term which >carries a lot of baggage, including prejudice and bigotry. If one of my gay >friends calls me a faggot, that is between us. If a straight person does it, >what I hear is the taunts of the killers of Matthew Shepherd. It depends on >where you are in relationship to the other person. > Why would you want to call a family member or friend a derogatory word?? I don't see any fun in that. What you say here indicates a double standard. People should not use derogatory words ... period :-) Heather ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 21:28:40 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: "racial slurs" At 10:40 AM 11/2/99 +0000, catman wrote: >Apart from food, i have no idea what 'cracker' means. Oh, here it is used to descibe >something good'oh he she it is a cracker'. > > Well, "cracker" is a racial slur against whites. A Southern US origin, I think. In that case, being a grandmother, I'm a gram-cracker :-D Heather - a very proud grandmother! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 22:23:24 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Suggestion For Branches I've always included photocopied J-cards for cassette boxes when making tapes for my leaves. But regular photocopies are tough to cut correctly. The edge of the J-card is white and so is the inside of the lid of the photocopier. What to do? Try photocopying with a colored poster board background. Here's how: Buy posterboard in any color except yellow. (Photocopiers see yellow *as if* it was white, or d-min to the photographers. Red worked well for me so I didn't try other colors. Go to Kinko's and cut out a rectangle with perfectly square corners. Cut it the size of a regular sheet of paper (In the US, that is 8+1/2 by 11 inches). Other countries, naturally, have different standard sizes. Use "poster tape" to lay out the J-cards on the page-sized colored background. You'll get perfect reproduction of the text but, stop there's more! On the photocopy the label is surrounded by a light grey area. The edges of the label are easily seen and greatly enhance the pleasure of making labels. - -- And so it goes, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** Tolerance, tolerance, tol... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 22:45:08 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) In a message dated 11/1/1999 1:12:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, badwolff@angelfire.com writes: << and finally: "pat's chords are no doubt fine for playing the version of Urge that Joni showed him, but to play the *recorded* version, you need different chords. The ones from the Hits songbook or the ones on the jmdl site are fine for this." I'm sorry howard, but this makes absolutely no sense at all. it seems that, in a very carefully worded way, you are attempting to cast doubt upon the authenticity of my post. if so, you're just gonna shoot yourself in the foot and all I can say is the proof is in the pudding. *play it* and see! the way she wrote it is the way she taught it to me and it's the same way she plays it on the '*recorded*' version! if you recall I originally made my post in response to listers who'd told me that they didn't play this song because the chords they had for it didn't sound right... so I posted the right ones. I may not be able to communicate 'chord shapes' like you and others can but I can play this song exactly as it was written. isn't that what you want? pat >> Hello! Interestingly enough, I just performed this song out for the first time. I don't think Howard was casting doubt just that maybe Joni changed it a little. The later songbooks that have come out starting with Turbulent Indigo show the correct tunings which is so cool. Also the Hits and Misses songbooks both show the correct tunings for all the songs in them. I have been playing Chealsea Morning and can now play along with the LP or an old video of her doing it live! How exciting!!! As long as you have the same outcome the chord choices are just a matter of preference in my opinion.....but to be able to play Joni the way she does is ECSTASY!!!!!! Catgirl....whooo-hooo!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:00:19 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Racial Slurs (long) In a message dated 11/1/1999 4:37:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: << But we automatically assume that "Great White Wonder" refers to a particular person, don't we? It's not a derogatory name that lots of white people have been called (at least not that I know of). And Magdalene Laundries probably did offend some people, but again, Joni's talking about a specific time and group of people, she's not bashing all Catholics. Even when she writes scornfully about lawyers, which I know from reading posts on this list is offensive to some people, I get the feeling she's referring to very particular lawyers. Joni can be critical, even judgmental, about people, including herself, but she's usually talking about a specific person, about his or her character and behavior, not about being a member of a certain group. >> I think Joni just writes and not to any particular color sex or religion. She just paints with words and music....Do we get offended when she writes about America in DJRD.... Here in Good-All-God-Save-America, Home of the brave and the free, We are all hopelessly oprressed COWARDS, Of some duality, Of restless mulitplicity.... I don't get offended.I think she is being very broad...Frankly, I just love this album. It is one of her bests!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:04:08 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: tape trees, DAT, and catch up.... first post In a message dated 11/2/99 5:20:11 PM US Central Standard Time, Kleronomos@aol.com writes: << I would appreciate an email or a posted response from anyone who can tell me how to become involved in a tape tree for unreleased Joni music / concerts. I just got a DAT machine, and would like to receive DAT clones, and provide cassette tapes..... however the tree operates.>> Howdy Dan, and welcome back! I've got all the tape trees, though none are first generation copies, they seem to work OK - I'll be glad to make you copies of any or all of the 8 tape trees we've had to date. Also, I was wondering how the gathering went (I forget where exactly it was to be... New England, somewhere, I think.... ). It was going to be held at the home of one of the list members. It sounded like it was going to be a great time. >> Well here's the URL, go check it out dude - it rocked! http://www.jmdl.com/gallery/jfne9909.htm Bob NP: Afghan Whigs, "Fountain & Fairfax" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:09:29 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Racial Slurs (long) NJC In a message dated 11/1/1999 8:17:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: << He displayed further ignorance my explaining that being gay is different. He said " The two of you can't help being what you are, but my daughter has a choice as to the race of the man she marries." I was speechless, but not Ed. He said " So what are you going to say to your daughter if she brings home a black woman?" With that statement, we excused ourselves and left. As for our friend, she is no longer dating this man. Sorry to be so winded, but my point is that racial slurs and behavior is *definitely* learned from our parents/family/peers. Every single person can make a difference!!!! Jimmy >> WOW Jimmy! Thanks for sharing this horrid experience! YIKES!!! You did a great sevice to you friend by showing her her boyfriends TRUE colors! You go boy!!! Catgirl NP-Raised on Robbery-Spectrum ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:11:21 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Racial Slurs (long) NJC Unhappily, I totally agree with your last sentence, Catherine. (You proposed that even if we were all the same color, we'd find some other standard to enable us to segregate.) There seems to be an irreducible competitiveness in human beings that predisposes us to look for and base our interaction on differences rather than connections. I don't know if it has something to do with the survival instinct. I believe people can struggle against this trait and can respond affirmatively if they are "taught" (whatever that means) to so struggle. But it will always, IMO, be an insurgent struggle, to uproot and overthrow something very, very deep within us. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:15:29 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Racial Slurs This is a great post! My exact thought but without me making a fool of myself to convey it... Way to go Scott!! Catgirl In a message dated 11/1/1999 8:47:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, sp@olympus.net writes: << This thread has sparked some interesting discussion so I felt like throwing in a few cents' worth. The lyrics in question, from "Dreamland" off DJRD, should not be taken out of context of the song. It's one thing to single out the two words "tar baby" or "white wonder" but we should look at the entire setting before questioning Joni's political-correctness. "Dreamland" IMO is another one of her classic studies of duality. It's about life on a tropical island as opposed to life in Canada during winter. It's about the European explorers Raleigh and Columbus "claiming" this land for the sun-worshipping masses who followed, when it really belongs to the native people. It's about partying and dancing to a samba beat, living life to its fullest, right before nodding off to sleep (dreamland). I think that by this time in her career Joni's interest in black culture had progressed beyond fascination; she felt she understood African Americans enough to really identify with their histories and struggles and related to this so deeply that she donned the makeup and pretended to be black for the album cover. She *assumed* the identity. This was her way of saying "I *know* what you feel...I understand and have this huge empathy..." Being this comfortable with black culture allows her to use a questionable label like tar baby, just as a few of today's black artists use the word "nigger" in some of their songs or in conversation among peers. In this case, "tar baby" provides the perfect contrast, or duality, to the "white wonder" as they enjoy a glass of rum and tacitly share the knowledge of things to come...the visiting hordes, nights of "temptation" and "gambling," after which they fly back, recline buttons down, to six-foot drifts of snow, jobs, kids, everyday life. I don't think Joni meant anything derogatory, explicitly nor implied, when she used these words. They are a result of where she was and how she felt at that time...just like most all of her compositions...they provide vivid images as only she can. Scott >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:18:34 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Racial Slurs I always felt that the "Mooslems" bit was Joni's way of pointing out how nervous and agitated a lot of white people were about what I'll imprecisely refer to as Black Power in the 60s. The more conventional, square and circumscribed the life of a white person, the more likely he or she would react to integration/black power in a way that 'd be amusing to a more worldly, hip, enlightened(?) observer. D LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:31:12 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) - [very long] In a message dated 11/2/1999 9:40:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, asandstrom@allaire.com writes: << Think in shapes and colors and textures. Sound weird? Well, that how she does it. It always amazed me that someone took the time to write out lead sheets and standard chords for Joni's songs, then published them, when it was like translating from one language to another one with fewer, less interesting words. Something invariably gets lost. Anne >> Anne, What a great post. Thnaks for sharing your expertise on this subject! I am impressed! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:35:39 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Urge for going - an enigma In a message dated 11/2/1999 10:37:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, sem8@cornell.edu writes: << In the interest of spreading the art of Joni Mitchell, I designed the Joni Mitchell Guitar Site with one mission: For guitarists to share their interpretations of Joni's craft. In my opinion, there are many different ways people enjoy playing her songs: e.g., in Joni's way, in their own way, and for beginners, the simplest way possible. We are all at varying degrees of guitar prowess and I designed the site so everyone can share and grow from learning from the master. >> The guitar site is quite amazing!!!! It is so awesome to go there pick a favorite song and learn to play it basically the same way Joni does. How lucky for all of us to be a part of this..All I cna say is one big.... Whooo-Hooo! Catgirl NP-Help Me-Spectrum ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 20:36:27 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) :-) thanks catgirl, I didn't know that about the songbooks. that IS great news! I remember how disgusted I was when the first ones came out. at this juncture I'd just like to say to you and howard and marian and mark and alan and anne and everyone who's been kind enough to try to help me with this that it is obvious that I must be in error on this in some way and what I really need to do is back off, go find a guitar, which won't be easy for me as I don't even know any guitarists, and re-examine what I'm saying I'm so sure of although I long ago lost my singing voice, I may even have to produce a short tape, as kakki suggested, when I get it sorted out so that you can make some comparison. after all, it's not just that Joni taught it to me; as soon as I learned it I immediately made it part of my setlist and performed it virtually every weekend for the next several years, and I didn't post the chords for self agrandizement and certainly not to start a fight with anyone, but for exactly the kind of heart portrayed so well here by you, catgirl... the 'wooo-hooo' kind of feeling that: "to be able to play Joni the way she does is ECSTASY!!!!!!" ...in other words, for you listers. so what I'm asking you is to please be patient with me and let me take the time to get it right... and please forgive me for being the cause of this confusion and if I mis-interpreted anyposts taht were made. after I have re-examined it I will respond to all of your posts to me. thanks. pat - -- CaTGirl wrote: > >> >Hello! >Interestingly enough, I just performed this song out for the first time. I don't think Howard was casting doubt just that maybe Joni changed it a little. The later songbooks that have come out starting with Turbulent Indigo show the correct tunings which is so cool. Also the Hits and Misses songbooks both show the correct tunings for all the songs in them. I have been playing Chealsea Morning and can now play along with the LP or an old video of her doing it live! How exciting!!! As long as you have the same outcome the chord choices are just a matter of preference in my opinion... but to be able to play Joni the way she does is ECSTASY!!!!!! Catgirl....whooo-hooo!!!! Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 22:47:19 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Lost Emails Hello Everybody- I have been so busy lately and have not had much time for myself. I have sent a few emails to the list to keep you up to date with my goings on, but after catching up with the current digests I see they have not made it to the list. How strange! Anyways, first things first. Last Thursday night I met Russell Ferrante thru my friend Marilee. He is a really super nice guy and I enjoyed the time I was able to spend with them hanging out at Vic's Kangeroo Cafe and then riding around listening to a recording that Marilee did in LA of an unreleased Stevie Wonder song (from The Songs In The Key of Life sessions). The track was totally amazing btw. Russell was in town with the Yellowjackets to play a few shows at Bally's Casino. They invited me down to see the show and afterwards I went backstage to say hi and was introduced to Peter Erskine (who I have seen play many times). I asked Peter about the Joni recording and it was like a flood of info that came out of him. He said it is the best session he has ever been involved with and gushed alot about Joni and how brilliant she is. He also talked very highly of the arranger (Vince I think he said his name is). He said he really likes the new arrangements of her old songs and that the music was so moving that several people were crying openly during the session. He also claimed Joni nailed alot of the songs on the first take. I told them about my tribute concert planned for next year here in New Orleans and promised to invite them. Anyway, more later. I wanna see if this thing is working again. Michael ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #493 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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