From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #486 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 04 : Number 486 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Tar Babie Babble (as in Tower of...) ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: lindsay's miracle ear... [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Heart /Sandra/Stormy Weather/Joni (now njc) [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Rock Masterclass [Jamie Zubairi ] RE: Heart /Sandra/Stormy Weather/Joni [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Heart /Sandra/Stormy Weather/Joni (now njc) ["Mark or Travis" ] Un.sub.bing from work (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Eric Anderson [Steve Dulson ] Re: Tar Baby [MHart16164@aol.com] RE: hair & moustaches NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re : Being Irish NJC [Jason Maloney ] Re: SJC: Stevie Wonder [AzeemAK@aol.com] $10 off $10 at Barnes & Nobel (Joni Books & Music) [mann@chicagonet.net] Re: Re : How much, how often? [Ginamu@aol.com] Half-rhymes and Squeeze (NJC) [Jason Maloney ] Re: SJC: Stevie Wonder [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] NJC Shepherd trial update #1 [Vince Lavieri ] NJC Shepherd trial #2 [Vince Lavieri ] Appalling Critic NJC [catman ] Re: Re : How much, how often? [Jason Maloney ] NJC Report from Laramie 3 [Vince Lavieri ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 03:38:11 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: Tar Babie Babble (as in Tower of...) Julian wrote: > Has anyone mentioned that >DJRD came out at a time when people weren't so worried about political >correctness, not to mention the evolution of a word or slang terminology? >These gems like "tar baby" litterally and figuratively get stuck in gooey >dark syntax and cultural taboos. I really appreciate Debra (Kedabra)'s "all >sides now" response....because I feel that's the time we are living in. The term "politically correct" hadn't yet been coined when DJRD was released, however that's not to say that one didn't recognize a racial slur when one met one in a dark alley, or in a crowded bar, or on a record album, or when one ran head-first into the slur-maker. We didn't call it politically incorrect, we called it racist. Semitics as you all know, are Arabs too. POC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 01:49:55 -0600 From: evian Subject: Heart /Sandra/Stormy Weather/Joni (now njc) Our Kakki wrote: > As for "Heart's Greatest Hits", this was another unwanted CD which came to > me in the mail after I'd forgotten to send back my "decline" card to a > record club. But when I finally decided to give it a listen I was blown > away. It's fantastic. > > I have loved Heart since I was 6 years old. Of course, the 90's stuff they have done has been pretty putrid, but I cherish my cd of "Dog and Butterfly"... The beginning of "Straight On" never fails to force me to belt out "QUITE SOME TIME...." from the bottom of my stomach. I too have the Greatest Hits, but just to let you know, there is another Greatest Hits package out there, I think it is called "Best of Heart" or something, and I think it is on Epic. It has one of their best (and probably the least known, since the single and album flopped) songs, "How Can I Refuse You" from the Passionworks album. Check it out if you are interested. How about a thread about the biggest surprise cd that we have gotten from not returning those damn record club cards? And the worst? I was blown away by Matthew Sweet's "100% Fun" or whatever it is called, one of the cds I got from BMG because I didn't send the stupid card back. Conversely, I still don't think I have recovered from the nausea when I ended up with Lionel Ritchie's "Dancing on the Ceiling" from Columbia House.... thank the good Lord they did away with the card thing finally! Oh, what a feeling, when we're dancing on the ceiling.... UGH!!!! Evian, who is fighting with CDHQ about a Johnny Lang cd I sent back which they say they never received.... I'll get them on Judge Judy before I pay for that frigging thing! P.S. Anyone interested in making me a tape of Stormy Weather?? I need to hear Stevie and Joni! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:18:03 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: hair & moustaches NJC Debra Kaufman wrote All this talk of hair and then Einstein, I have to ask what's happened to the plain old moustache? You never see just that anymore and some men look so good in them. VanDykes I like a lot but that's all you see, except for the (usually older man) full beard. I guess what's happened the the plain old 'tache is that it has got swallowed up by some sort of uniform. In London, if you see a man with a 'tache then he's probably gay or German. ;-b If you see a woman with one, that's another question. Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:10:47 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: lindsay's miracle ear... Ric reminisces: <> Yes, I recall it everytime I hear "Facelift" Ric...sometimes I even sing it that way to give myself a smile. But I'm not about to sing anything about bending over, especially in THIS crowd! :~D Bob NP: "Come In From The Cold" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:27:51 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Heart /Sandra/Stormy Weather/Joni (now njc) Evian said: <> Dreamboat Annie is a definite classic! "Magic Man" may have been their breakthrough hit, but "Sing Child Sing" from that record is still my fave of theirs...and Ann (or Nancy, I can never remember which is which) can sing Led Zep in concert just like Robert Plant - they do a kickass version of "Rock and Roll". And close on the heels of "Sing Child Sing" is "Barracuda", one of the best air guitar songs of all time! I remember I was doing yard work one time with some radio headphones on when "Barracuda" came on...I hoisted the edger up and immediately started jamming. Luckily, I didn't remove my own appendix with the blade of the thing! << How about a thread about the biggest surprise cd that we have gotten from not returning those damn record club cards? And the worst?>> I've only done that once, so the disc I got qualifies as the best and the worst! It was Natalie Merchant's "Ophelia", which is pretty good. Bob NP: "River" from Worcester MA, 12/69 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:05:57 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Rock Masterclass Dear Listers Has anyone got a superb copy of the DED rock Masterclass that has been discussed in the past couple of days? Email me privately if you have. I believe it's the one with DED done acoustically. Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:17:26 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: Heart /Sandra/Stormy Weather/Joni Maurice said: < performance on S.W. CD > has been played less by me than the other cuts on the CD>> Actually, I play everything EXCEPT Sandra Bernhardt's cut from SW. Why oh why is it in the MIDDLE??? :-) Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:35:30 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: [Fwd: Re: how much, how often?] Message-ID: <3819A25D.168E@snet.net> Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:34:21 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Reply-To: jlhall01@snet.net Organization: The Mortgage Finance Corp. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SNET (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: catman Subject: Re: how much, how often? References: <38188A03.5BD8292F@ethericcats.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I try to at least twice a week. I can't listen to her when my husband is home because he loathes her music. So on Saturdays when I'm cleaning house and sometimes when he's working late. I WISH I HAD A CD PLAYER IN MY CAR or I'd always listen there...maybe I should take up a collection! Any sympathy out there? ;-) - -Jenny from CT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:41:30 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Heart /Sandra/Stormy Weather/Joni (now njc) ...and Ann (or Nancy, I can never remember which is which) can sing Led > Zep in concert just like Robert Plant - they do a kickass version of "Rock and > Roll". Ann is the lead singer. She & Nancy occasionally perform with a smaller group called 'The Lovemongers'. They do a lot of acoustic stuff. It's kind of their escape from Heart which kinda got to be an arena rock dinosaur. Anyway there is an EP that was put out here in the Northwest several years ago by the Lovemongers that has a cover of Zep's 'Battle of Evermore' on it. It is truly awesome. Both the Wilson sisters sing on it and they really wail. There's also a live version of 'Crazy On You' and covers of 'Papa Was a Rolling Stone' and 'Love of the Common Man'. They are all excellent. I don't know if this EP was released anywhere outside of the Northwest. I'd be willing to tape it for people on the list who might be interested. Email me privately. Mark in Seattle Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:35:57 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re : How much, how often? I've really enjoyed the responses to my orginal ruminations/queries. Rather than reply individually to some of the comments/confessions revealed in each one, I think I'll tackle them as a whole. Otherwise, they'd be 10 separate postings from me at once, and nobody deserves that ;-) Eric and Gina remark on how it's the emotinal and intellectual substance of Joni's work that is the primary "hook", moreso than any "trivia" knowledge gained. I totally agree. While there is an amazing amount of knowledge displayed on this list, I didn't mean to imply that it was all trivia, far from it. I was thinking more of how deep-rooted the knowledge must be (both emotionally and intellectually), that when any particular thread crops up, the wealth of thoughts, opinions and related experiences shared by everyone on here are expressed so eloquently and with such a keen eye for detail and nuance. I wondered by what means each person here manages to arrive at such a point. I figured that the lengthy timespan covered by Joni's recorded work, and therefore the number of potential years for exposure, has probably played a significant part. Many of you have also gained a very personal insight and relationship to her songs through performing them yourselves. Even so, it occurred to me that most of you must still listen to (and be inspired/stimulated by) Joni's music on a very regular basis. From those who have so far posted on this topic, it seems that is largely true. Eric is a semi-daily case.....while Catherine slips some in whenever time permits each day, it appears ;-D Gina, meanwhile, is another "almost-daily" Joniphile. Anne and Jimmy too. Colin also has at least a couple of Joni CDs always on hand. Angela freaked me out when she revealed only three of her entire collection are non-Joni :-) Bob, though, King Music Slut that he is, throws in as much of everything (including Joni) as anyone within earshot can humanly tolerate Heaven forbid you ever have those headphones taken away, Bob! Susan is probably the only person among the 10 who doesn't listen to Joni "all that much", but it's clear that she is very much "under the influence" almost daily :-) Apologies for the "third-person" referencing....I hope nobody is offended, but I don't know how to cut-and-paste quotes from ten different people! :-) Obviously, the nature and depth of anyone's love and appreciation of Joni is not directly linked to the amount or regularity of plays given to her music. If it were, I'd probably be at the bottom of any "Frequency of Joni listening" polls. I admit I have rather odd listening habits, in that I don't play CDs over and over again. Ten years ago, I listened to a lot more music, more often....my favourite albums would be played maybe 20 or 30 times in their first 12 months. Nowadays, it's nearer 6 or 7. I have no doubt that it's largely a side-effect of my ill-health and resulting brain-inflammation, as well as a symptom of relying on music as my main source of entertainment for the last 13 years. Because of my illness, I find it impossible to have music playing while I do something else, and am even unable to have any playing while I rest or drift off to sleep. I listen to any music that I play, either reclining in a chair or lying down. In both cases I invariably have my eyes closed or covered with a sleep-mask. Music, for me, is more like a "fuel" for my brain, cancelling out the over-stimulation and mental exhaustion/foggyness that lowers my ability to function as a human being. What I listen to, and how often, is very carefully considered. Because I love so many different artists and genres, and I listen to so little music in a day (maybe 90 minutes, but usually nearer to 60), the opportunity to repeatedly play a certain CD is limited. Lately, I have taken to making compilation tapes of my current favourite tracks on a regular basis, or sometimes just listening to a selection of songs without actually comitting them to tape. I find it less "tiresome" than struggling through a 75-minute CD. I seldom listen to an album in one go....though if it's under 45 minutes, I may be able to. At the moment, I don't seem to last longer than about 4 or 5 songs before the restlesness creeps in. So, in other words, I have slowly but surely become "weary" of exposing myself to endless bouts of music, and chaning my listening habits has been the only way to keep my love and enjoyment of the music I play at a satisfactory level. New alternatives to listening to music have become available to me in the last year, as my condition has improved just enough to take in computers, TV and films. That's another reason why I listen to less music now. After 10 years of all-music and nothing else, my brain is telling me "you've got all these other things you can do now...why keep laying down to listen to a 50 minute album, when you can write e-mails, play games or watch a movie?". Music is still a vital component in my daily life - it balances my brain-inflammation so that I can tackle something else - but I now only "stop for gas" when absolutely necessary. I occasionally "fantasise" about getting all my Joni CDs out from the CD drawers, spreading them out on the floor, and immersing myself in Joniland for hours while the CDs play one after the other as I study the view in front of me of all the artwork side by side. It's a nice dream :-) For me, Joni is one of the very few artists who I feel a need to have their entire catalogue of work. All I'm missing now are the live albums, and I'm sure that in time they will join the 18 CDs I already own. I may not play them too often, but I'm pretty sure that on average I listen to more Joni than any other artist in my collection. It must be wonderful to have such a deep-rooted relationship with her work, and one borne of so many experiences and emotions. Of course, her music and lyrics do inspire a whole range of things in me too, as they surely do in everyone, but I often find myself marvelling at the far-reaching bond so many of you have with Joni's work. My appreciation has certainly been enriched to a very significant degree just by being part of the JMDL. Until I joined, I was someone who adored her DED-onwards releases, and found great comfort, inspiration and stimulation in them, but I hadn't felt a great desire to go back in time and investigate the earlier albums. They were from another time and dimension, as I saw it, and as I had not really lived through those times (although I was born the month Blue was released) I felt little connection with them. That all changed after spending a few months on this list, and reading all the posts. Now Hejira is among my Top 10 albums of all-time, and has more resonance and potency than most current music IMO. Well, I have rambled far too much! :-) Thanks for listening (if you haven't already deleted!) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:52:35 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Un.sub.bing from work (NJC) Hey Gang, Just a quick note to confirm that I am leaving Fluor Daniel (even as I speak) but NOT the JMDL (It's in my blood like holy wine after all), so please direct any offlist messages to me to "SCJoniGuy@AOL.com". Y'all have a great Friday, Bob -------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:15:44 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Eric Anderson Bob wrote: >Eric, on the other hand, is like my dear old Dad, the poor guy just has no >>sense of key, pitch or rhythm, at least not evidenced in his performances >here. >I don't think months of rehearsals would've helped him I havn't heard the Joni's Jazz tapes, so I can't comment on Eric's performance there. However, I would urge those like Bob who are unfamiliar with his work not to dismiss him based on this show. Two of his songs, Thirsty Boots and Violets of Dawn, are true classics of the folk scare. His album Blue River (with Joni singing backup... hmmm, that's the first time I made the connection between Blue River and Blue, which was originally going to be called River) is well worth checking out, and based on his performance at the '93 Troubadours of Folk show (which Joni headlined) he still had his chops and was writing very good material. NP - Paul Castle - "Louise (Kick off your dancing shoes)" ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ (Website under construction!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:07:31 EDT From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: Tar Baby In a message dated 99-10-26 15:56:56 EDT, you write: << Patricia said: >Tar Baby is slang for a black person, IMO an impolite and racist >term. >> There is a story (and I'm not sure who wrote it--Uncle tom's cabin) about a tar baby. The tar baby gets beat but the agressor gets stuck in all the tar. - -michele Normally lurking in Louisiana NP: Earth wind and Fire-Greatest Hits ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:32:55 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: hair & moustaches NJC In London, if you see a man with a > 'tache then he's probably gay or German. ;-b > > If you see a woman with one, that's another question. > > Jamie Zubairi well, yes. two pages i frequently visit are "men@40", which includes a special section of pics of men with mustaches, and the self-evident "men and their mustaches" from australia. there's also "uk 'tached". it seems many gay men --- emphatically including me --- find mustachioed men extremely attractive. and you should've seen jim, the guy that picked us up at the airport for ashara's party... mark in seattle, whatever your life choices, DON'T shave!!! wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:55:03 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re : Being Irish NJC Usually one of the first things someone will remark upon when meeting me for the first time (either on-line or in person) is my name. "Ah, Maloney? So you're Irish?". At school it often served as an easy source of humour for those needing a reason to poke fun at me for whatever reason. Many times, it was not done maliciously. As has already been pointed out, the Irish do - I think - have a very keen sense of humour....after all, you'd need to given the number of "irish jokes" that have been in circulation throughout the decades. I am not first-generation Irish. My grandparents on my father's side of the family were from just outside Dublin, and my Dad's brothers and sisters moved to America many years ago. I have never actually met any of them. However, I am technically more Irish than many of the recent football players who have graced the national team! The main legacies of my origins are in my appearance (dark hair, blue eyes, pale skin....like a young Georgie Best, or so I've been told!), and in my fascination with Americana. I have long felt some indescribable "pull" towards the US, and actually find it easier to strike up friendships with people from either Ireland or America than the UK. I just seem to have a greater kinship with them. This penchant for all things American also applies to music and films. As a teenager, I was more interested in following the Billboard Hot 100 on a saturday afternoon with Paul Gambaccini on Radio 1, than I was with the UK Top 40 the following day. Virtually all my favourite movies are American, too, though I obviously enjoy British ones as well. Just last night, I was watching Pleasantville, which was released on DVD in the UK this week. I thought it was sensational. I loved The Truman Show too, but I'm thinking Pleasantville is actually even better. The use of colour (and the lack of it) was like nothing I have ever seen before, and the screenplay was extremely clever. The references to the Garden Of Eden, the shopwindow signs saying "no coloureds", and the scenes of rampant street violence had echoes of the race riots of the 60s. What I loved most, though, was probably the way it seemed to capture the essence of that time.....America in the late 50s and early 60s had so much style. The cars, the diners, the music, and the way the girls dressed ;-) I might have to pass on Momma's home-made blueberry muffins though.... Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:44:29 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: SJC: Stevie Wonder In a message dated 27/10/99 15:42:39 GMT Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluor.com writes: << It's great to sing, but the rhymes are kind of suspect, he rhymes Mississippi with Pretty, Dirty with Early, >> Well, I have a different take on half-rhymes. I think they can be very effective, and that their use can be a conscious lyrical device, and not simply the closest the writer could get. A superb example of this is the Squeeze song Up The Junction, which is stuffed full of half rhymes, for example I never thought it would happen With me and a girl from Clapham Out on the windy common That night I ain't forgotten The whole song is like that. Obviously, we can't know the process behind the writing of Stevie's lyrics, but I'm prepared to believe he knew what he was doing! After all, there are half-rhymes all over the blessed (rightly) Hejira are there not?? The very first couplet of the album (circumstance/ranch), loads in Song for Sharon. Some of the most arresting couplets on the whole album are half-rhymes, for example I can keep my head at poker but I'm a fool when love's at stake Because I can't conceal emotion - whatever I'm feeling's written on my face It doesn't scan either! :-) I think Stevie is a true genius and a great songwriter, and I agree with whomever it was who said that his purple patch in the 70s was virtually unrivalled - and I also love Journey Through the Secret Life of Plants. And here's a question: did that film actually get a cinematic release - and has anyone here seen it?? Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:49:02 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: $10 off $10 at Barnes & Nobel (Joni Books & Music) Hi All, Better use this one fast! Type in Joni Mitchell under subject for books and you'll find some old and maybe books you hadn't heard of before. (I did!) They also sell music too! Go to: www.bn.com/boo coupon code is .......CTREATS Hope this proves useful to some of you! WARNING: NJC below.........but FUN STUFF if you dare! U.S. residents (excluding Florida) at least 18 years of age who have Internet access (as of 10/22/99) can register to win Ziploc brand Slide-Loc Holiday Bags for Gifts & Storage "Time to Shop" Sweepstakes by visiting www.ziplocholiday.com. One grand prize winner will be randomly drawn to win a $1,000 post-holiday shopping spree (in the store of your choice!). Those who complete an optional on-line survey will also receive a FREE Slide-Loc Holiday Bag sample, magnet and coupons for Ziploc brand Slide-Loc Bags and Handi-Wrap/Saran Cling Plus brand plastic film. Contest entry and free offer deadline is 11:59 p.m. EST on January 22, 2000. http://www.ziplocholiday.com/docs/ziploc/ziplocholiday/home.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Free Sample of Coricidin Cold/Flu Medicine. http://www.tbwt.com/misc/emaven/register.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ New Downy sample Please visit http://downy.yourinfohere.com/hello?s=53&site=invitation to order a sample today. Have fun! Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:16:23 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Re : How much, how often? In a message dated 10/29/1999 12:37:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jason.maloney@virgin.net writes: << Well, I have rambled far too much! :-) Thanks for listening (if you haven't already deleted!) Jason. >> First a personal note to Jason:I enjoyed every word. Thanks for such a sensitive and nicely written post. It's always great when a list members sends out an invitation for responses, receives them, considers them and then formulates a thoughtful post with their reactions. I really enjoyed this thread. And as an aside, Jason, where were you when I needed help defending SuzyV on the JMDL? I wimped out without you! I'm assuming that we both feel she doesn't need defending, yes? ; } While it's true I play Joni almost daily to some extent, I also play a wide variety of other people's music a great deal at work and at home too, particularly while doing work around the house, preparing dinner or just puttering. But with Joni, I prefer to be alone while listening to her ( uh oh... in terms of addiction, is this anything like an alcoholic preferring to drink alone? ) ; } I can't concentrate well on anything else when I play Joni, so I tend to have an all or nothing sort of inclination toward her work. Either I give her music my full concentration or I just have it on as background music. With other artists, I can usually listen with half and ear and still keep up my pace at work. Ringing phone, reports to write, people in and out of my office, kids clamoring for my attention and I can still tune in. My listening time with Joni is almost sacred to me and if I listen to her at work and the phone rings, I feel like saying something such as "Can't talk now, I'm listening with new ears to Boho Dance (thanks to a JMDL thread) Gotta go!" Or saying to someone walking into my office "Can't you see I'm absorbed in Amelia like it was the first time I heard it??? Please leave." : } Such is my life with Joni and thus the reason for my bedtime and commute listening rituals reserved mostly for her music. That's why my NPs are often *not* Joni. This is such a brilliant and dynamic list that it requires my full attention and because any kind of coherent post from me requires a great deal of effort, that usually means no Joni with my JMDL time. Kind of odd that the JMDL and Joni should sort of be mutually exclusive, but that's genuinely how it works for me. Have a great weekend everyone! Gina ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:28:38 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Half-rhymes and Squeeze (NJC) Azeem, it took me years to get those lyrics out of my head...now look what you've gone and done! Well, I rate Chris Difford and Glenn Tilbrook among the very best lyricists I have ever heard. Their use of language is so broad....taking in a wonderful array of colloquialisms, cockney, and more seldom-used words than you can shake a stick at. Virtually every Squeeze song has something unique lyrically. They are quinessentially English, yet somehow (or perhaps because of it) America took them into its bosom, and still affords them a warm (if comparitvely small) place in its heart from what I hear. Sometimes I feel the music lets them down a little and doesn't quite do justice to the lyrical invention and potency, but Glenn Tillbrook's delivery always provides a killer touch. I also feel they have improved with age.........the cleverness of a few earlier songs sometimes overshadowed the emotional poignancy. A poignancy which probably reached its apex on the excellent "Play" and "Some Fantastic Place" albums from 1991 and 1993. Jason, losing track of how many Joni posts he's written today ;-) AzeemAK@aol.com wrote : > Well, I have a different take on half-rhymes. I think they can be very > effective, and that their use can be a conscious lyrical device, and not > simply the closest the writer could get. A superb example of this is the > Squeeze song Up The Junction, which is stuffed full of half rhymes, for > example > > I never thought it would happen > With me and a girl from Clapham > Out on the windy common > That night I ain't forgotten > > The whole song is like that. > > Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:40:05 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: SJC: Stevie Wonder In a message dated 10/29/99 4:27:01 PM US Central Standard Time, AzeemAK@aol.com writes: << I think Stevie is a true genius and a great songwriter, and I agree with whomever it was who said that his purple patch in the 70s was virtually unrivalled - and I also love Journey Through the Secret Life of Plants. And here's a question: did that film actually get a cinematic release - and has anyone here seen it?? >> Azeem, I was the one who commented about his amazing streak in the 70's...broken imo with "Plants", which I bought, of course, and just barely found enough decent stuff on it to put on half of a 90 minute tape (it was a double LP). I think the soundtrack was to a TV film and not a cinematic one, but I could be wrong. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:18:54 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC Shepherd trial update #1 JMDL friends: for those who are interested... (the Rev) Vince Henry Messer wrote: > THIS IS ONE IS A SERIES OF PERIODIC DISPATCHES FROM LARAMIE, WYOMING, WHERE > I HAVE BEEN MONITORING THE TRIAL OF AARON McKINNEY. McKINNEY IS FACING > CAPITAL MURDER CHARGES FOR THE BEATING DEATH LAST YEAR OF MATTHEW SHEPARD. > > FEEL FREE TO CROSS-POST THIS AND SHARE IT WITH OTHERS, BUT PLEASE DO NOT > INCLUDE THE ABOVE ADDRESS LIST IN ANY RE-POSTS. THANKS... > Jeffrey , trijeffm@aol.com > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > DISPATCH FROM LARAMIE > Monday 25 October 1999 > > McKINNEY'S TRIAL GETS UNDERWAY WITH OFFENSIVE DEFENSE > > Testimony began Monday in Aaron McKinney's murder trial, but not until > after the most astounding, blatant exhibition of a "gay panic" defense was > outlined by the team representing the accused, and admitted killer of > Matthew Shepard. > > By the start of the afternoon session the jury had been selected with ten > men and six women on the final panel. Of that number, three are students > at the University of Wyoming. > > So by the start of the afternoon session, and a year after the horrific > killing of Shepard, the opening statements were finally to be heard. > McKinney was escorted in, wearing a black suit that was in high contrast to > his ashen, stark white complexion. Judy Shepard sat stoically in the front > row, while across the aisle sat members of McKinney's family. > > Prosecutor Carl Rerucha presented a clear a concise overview of the State's > case against McKinney. He provided a story of the harrowing last ride of > Shepard in the truck driven by Russell Henderson and with fellow passenger > McKinney. Rerucha said that this is not a case about Shepard's life, but > about the pain and suffering and death he suffered at the hands of Aaron > McKinney. > > The prosecutor told of McKinney and Henderson assessing Shepard as a victim > at the Fireside Lounge, the bar where they first encountered each other. > Once in the truck McKinney told Shepard, "We're not gay and you're getting > jacked." Then the beating commenced; the beating with a 357-magnum handgun. > They drove to an area familiar to McKinney, the Fence on the outskirts of > Laramie. After several more blows, McKinney and Henderson left Matt > Shepard knowing he was dead, or soon would be. > > The defense followed with their version of events, and their unequivocal, > unscrupulous touting of so-called "homosexual panic" was both riveting and > revolting. Defense team member Jason Tangeman began by announcing > disingenuously (and, it turned out, portentously) that Matthew Shepard is > innocent. He assured the panel that they would not like McKinney, and that > murder is never pretty. Neither, it became apparent, will be this defense. > > Many observing this case had speculated that "gay panic" would not even > surface here, even while activists were becoming weary with saying it would > be inevitable. We had been arguing that in order to make the case for a > reduced verdict of manslaughter, it would become essential for the defense > to tie the brutal beating to some motive. > > Tangeman wasted little time in establishing that motivation. McKinney, he > explained, was "furious" with rage because Shepard had "come on" to him, > had groped him and even licked McKinney's ear. Shepard was a predator that > evening, according to Tangeman's tale. And McKinney was high on > methamphetamines and alcohol. The touch set McKinney into a rage and he > knew not what he was doing from that moment on. > > More than ten blows to the head later, including those that resulted in > crushing Shepard's brain stem, McKinney and Henderson fled the scene. But > not before they tied their 105-pound victim to the Fence and relieved him > of his shoes. > > Then, the most staggering news of all. McKinney, as told by Tangeman, had > a history of homosexual abuse. And it "haunted" him. When he was a > youngster a neighborhood "bully" had forced McKinney to have sex with him, > McKinney had also been forced to have sex with another boy, he had yet > another sexual encounter with a male cousin. There were rumors that Aaron > might be a fag. Finally, just two years ago, McKinney, along with his > girlfriend, was vacationing in Florida and happened into a "gay" church. > These "sexually confusing events in his past," in Tangeman's words, are > what set him on his murderous attack of Matthew Shepard. This last element > was dazzling, as though the attorney had pulled a rabbit out of a hat, > right before our very eyes! > > According to Tangeman, homosexual humiliation fueled by drugs and alcohol > brought up the past and well the picture should be clear. > > By mid-afternoon, the Tangeman's deed was done and the gay panic defense > had been thrown down as a gauntlet. Now for the defenses next trick > _______________________________________________ > Jeffrey Montgomery has been able to observe and comment on this case in > Laramie through the generous support of the Triangle Foundation and its > supporters; The National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs; Gay & Lesbian > Alliance Against Defamation; and the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:20:38 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC Shepherd trial #2 and this is the next part... Henry Messer wrote: > THIS IS ONE IS A SERIES OF PERIODIC DISPATCHES FROM LARAMIE, WYOMING, WHERE > I HAVE BEEN MONITORING THE TRIAL OF AARON McKINNEY. McKINNEY IS FACING > CAPITAL MURDER CHARGES FOR THE BEATING DEATH LAST YEAR OF MATTHEW SHEPARD. > > FEEL FREE TO CROSS-POST THIS AND SHARE IT WITH OTHERS THANKS... > Jeffrey , trijeffm@aol.com > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > DISPATCH FROM LARAMIE > Tuesday 26 October 1999 > > FLUCTUATE YOUR VOICE > > Things can always get worse, even when you don't think things could get worse. > > I didn't think this defense team could get any worse than they were > yesterday. That was when they rolled out the Y2K compatible, Millennium > Edition of the "Homo Panic Defense." This new version, the one specially > minted for the Aaron McKinney trial in Laramie, is designed to be as > offensive and vulgar as past models, but has been outfitted with a late 90s > look of unabashed loathing and contempt. It's built to last. > > Anyway, Tuesday was a day that featured a full morning of testimony > dedicated to the medical examiner's report and findings of how Matthew > Shepard actually died (multiple blunt force trauma, causing skull fracture, > crushing the brain stem), complete with poster-sized blow-ups of autopsy > photos. The afternoon provided an absorbing account of an excellent piece > of police work by Laramie cops, involving McKinney's second vicious attack > on innocent people on the same evening that he beat the hell out of > Shepard. That would be the attack on two Latino men. > > In that second incident, McKinney and his pal Russell Henderson, fresh from > their visit to the Fence with Shepard, used the same blunt object > (357-Magnum revolver) that did the job on Shepard to bust open the skull of > young Mr. Morales. McKinney gives a new meaning to the concept of > "handgun." With Aaron, why waste money on bullets? > > But for me, the most fascinating revelation came through defense team > questioning of two employees of the Fireside Bar & Lounge. The Fireside is > the venue where McKinney and Henderson ran into Matthew and from which the > three left together. The Fireside witnesses were Matt Galloway, who > self-identified as a "student/bartender" (pronounce the word "slash" in > that phrase), and Douglas Ferguson. Ferguson was a bouncer in October of > '98. He's now a bartender. > > Defense team co-captain, Jason Tangeman was back for day two, following his > masterful work of introducing the "Homo Panic" strategy the previous day. > He wasted no time to dispel any notion that denigrating homos in general > and Mr. Shepard specifically was a one-day exercise. He continued to > defame and disparage Shepard by insinuating that he was a lush. But he > really made advances when he questioned the two lounge employees. > > To Mr. Galloway: "Was Mr. McKinney acting gay?" > To Mr. Ferguson: "Were [Henderson & McKinney] acting gay?" > > Each of the young men, Galloway and Ferguson, didn't think so. > > But I was wondering (and I wasn't the only one who was) what that meant. > What would either of these two guys do, how would they pull off, "acting gay?" > > Well, no one would wonder long. Tangeman provided the clue; the give-away > that someone is "acting gay." He followed his question to Ferguson with > this helpful inquiry: "Did they fluctuate their voices?" > > Fluctuating voices. That's how you know! Now I know why all those gay guys > in all those bars are always fluctuating their voices. That's always > annoyed me all those fluctuating voices, but now I know ---the world > knows--- that those guys are simply acting gay! > > Tangeman has evidently studied gay culture. > > Although Shepard had been in the Fireside several times and was a > respectful and respected patron, Galloway told reporters outside the > Courthouse following his testimony that he had never been sure whether > Matthew was gay or not. > > Shepard obviously never fluctuated his voice. > > So it's going to get progressively worse. > _______________________________________________ > Jeffrey Montgomery has been able to observe and comment on this case in > Laramie through the generous support of the Triangle Foundation and its > supporters; The National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs; Gay & Lesbian > Alliance Against Defamation; and the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:08:57 +0100 From: catman Subject: Appalling Critic NJC I really don't think much of critics: Tina Turner-Twenty Four Seven Twenty Four Seven, eh. Well, I must say it is very brave of Miss Turner to come clean about her age-247. Human years or dog years, I wonder? from the howling on this record one has to assume the latter. It is ll a tad unbecoming, rampaging around to a wine-bar soundtrack and growling rather base human desires. As all wrinkly rockers do at this stage of their career(the twilight years), they call in a modern production team to give the proceedings a contempoerary gloss-forgetting the rather apt maixm that you can't teach an old dog new tricks...at least I know a good home this dog of a record can go to. woof, woof. This is not a review but the outpourings of a snotty, nasty little hack who thinks he/she is being very clever and trying to get a name for themselves. This review was printed in the Evening Standard and was by one of four people credited: Tim Lusher, Pete Clark, Chris Burkham or Zoe Williams. - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:32:55 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Re : How much, how often? Ginamu@aol.com wrote: > First a personal note to Jason: I enjoyed every word. Thanks for such a > sensitive and nicely written post. It's always great when a list members > sends out an invitation for responses, receives them, considers them and then > formulates a thoughtful post with their reactions. I really enjoyed this > thread. I am glad I decided to write that post. I've had such a wonderfully positive response from so many people, and I am genuinely thankful to you all. There are many times I wish I could be a more active participant in the discussions, but it's not often I can summon the energy to do so. My post this afternoon took me a couple of hours to write, but I felt I needed to share my thoughts with you all for a change. Mostly, I never get past the stage of thinking them, and leaving it at that. > And as an aside, Jason, where were you when I needed help defending > SuzyV on the JMDL? I wimped out without you! I'm assuming that we both feel > she doesn't need defending, yes? ; } Oops...hahahaha. Sorry Gina! Well, I was sorely tempted to weigh in. SV is the only artist besides Joni who I feel has made consistenly outstanding music. There is not one SV track from her 5 albums which is below-par. Actually, I seem to recall sending a post in to the list at the time, no? Perhaps I forgot to send it....I can be absent-minded like that during chaotic times. > While it's true I play Joni almost daily to some extent, I also play a wide > variety of other people's music a great deal at work and at home too, > particularly while doing work around the house, preparing dinner or just > puttering. But with Joni, I prefer to be alone while listening to her ( uh > oh... in terms of addiction, is this anything like an alcoholic preferring to > drink alone? ) ; } I can't concentrate well on anything else when I > play Joni, so I tend to have an all or nothing sort of inclination toward her > work. Either I give her music my full concentration or I just have it on as > background music. Oh, I hear you on this! I am like that with ALL the music I listen to, though. I sometimes wonder if it would be easier on me if I was more "easy-going" in this respect, but then again it means I really do savour what little music I listen to. I don't listen to the radio either, so everything I hear is due to a conscious desire to on my part. > This is such a brilliant and dynamic list that it requires my full attention > and because any kind of coherent post from me requires a great > deal of effort, that usually means no Joni with my JMDL time. Kind of odd > that the JMDL and Joni should sort of be mutually exclusive, but that's > genuinely how it works for me. Again, I can fully identify with what you are saying. That's why you'll probably find me posting in fits and starts. I'll get on a roll, and find the necessarly mental energy and coherence to put my thoughts into words, and it will last for a few days. Then it disappears again for a while, and so do I ;-) > Have a great weekend everyone! And you too, Gina..!! Best wishes, Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:48:21 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC Report from Laramie 3 Henry Messer wrote: > FROM LARAMIE, WYOMING, WHERE I HAVE BEEN MONITORING THE TRIAL OF AARON > McKINNEY. McKINNEY IS FACING CAPITAL MURDER CHARGES FOR THE BEATING DEATH > LAST YEAR OF MATTHEW SHEPARD. > > FEEL FREE TO CROSS-POST THIS AND SHARE IT WITH OTHERS THANKS... > Jeffrey , trijeffm@aol.com > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > DISPATCH FROM LARAMIE > Thursday 28 October 1999 > > DRAMA, PANIC & VIDEOTAPE > > DRAMA > > The murder trial of Aaron McKinney in the beating death of Matthew Shepard > is moving at a faster-than-expected pace. There is expectation that the > prosecution's case may be completed tomorrow morning. That expectancy has > only heightened speculation about how will be resolved one of the two big > sidebar dramas playing out here in the Albany County Courthouse. > > On Wednesday, Judge Barton Voigt told the defense team that their plan to > use a blatant version of the so-called "homosexual panic" defense wasn't > going to fly. Judge Voigt compared the strategy to Wyoming's "battered > woman's defense," which is enshrined in a State Statute bearing the > syndrome's name. It allows, as an element of self-defense, for an argument > in cases where women are accused of killing their abusers. > > Alas, there is no similar "Gay Panic" statute in Wyoming (or anywhere else > in the country, for that matter). So the judge ---who was clearly chagrined > by the introduction of the strategy--- ordered Dion Custis, captain of the > defense team, to come up with a convincing legal justification for the > scheme to have standing in this case. The judge's dressing down of the > defense crew was stunning. > > It has also provided the gallery observers with hours of speculation about > what ramifications will result from the Judge's ruling, especially on the > eve of defense's case. > > As though this case needed any further turmoil, Russell Henderson, > sentenced to life in prison for his confessed role in Shepard's killing > (brokered last April in exchange for a life sentence and to avoid a > possible death sentence), was a no-show today. His name appeared on the > day's witness list and he had even been spotted in the courthouse, but he > reportedly balked at the last moment. Matter of fact, Henderson was seen > in the courtroom during the mid-morning break. Then he went into the > judge's chambers with McKinney and the defense lawyers. After that meeting, > McKinney emerged smiling broadly and Henderson headed for the elevator. He > was returned to jail for the afternoon. > > Henderson had been expected as a witness for the prosecution and his > anticipated testimony would have probably helped portray McKinney as the > lead actor in the savage scene at the Fence and the sole actor who bashed > Shepard's skull, before leaving the bashed and thrashed victim tied to the > Fence. > > With Henderson bolting the trial, he left behind a catalog of questions. > Would he return another day? Is he now going to be a defense witness? Is > his story changing, the story he touted at his sentencing hearing last > spring? Will his testimony be entered into the record by using his > previous, under oath statements? If he fails to participate completely, > can the State revisit its offer of leniency and re-sentence him? > > Between Judge Voigt's challenge to Mr. Custis, and the AWOL Russell > Henderson, this epic episode has taken on yet even more extraordinary stuff. > > PANIC > > Judge Barton Voigt's ex cathedra lecture last Tuesday, challenging Custis & > Co. to justify their plan to mount a so-called "Homosexual [or Gay] Panic," > brought that dubious scheme instantly into the national spotlight. It > could have only happened here, at the trail of Matthew Shepard's killer, > with bright national Klieg lights beaming up from Laramie. > > Many of the major print and broadcast news outlets that are covering the > McKinney trial are developing stories about the "Gay Panic" defense and its > effect, both historically and in recent trials. And suddenly everyone's > talking about it. Triangle, as well as every other member agency of the > National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs (NCAVP) have tried to work > this story at countless gay-killer trials for years. Our work, for example, > to generate broad discussion of "GP" during the Schmitz murder trials in > the death of Scott Amedure was only successful to a point. Of course > during those cases we were elbowing for space in a tent crowded by Jenny > Jones, celebrity shrinks, bombast lawyers and Grave's disease. > > In the McKinney case, the Custis defense squad coupled with Matthew > Shepard's status as the poster boy for heinous and waunton hate violence, > have thrust the issue to the top of the charts. But just as no single > victim, or his memory, should bear the burden of singularly standing for > the issue, it is also morally flawed to raise Matthew Shepard up to such > sainted status over those we know to suffer such violence every day. > ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #486 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?