From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #484 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, October 28 1999 Volume 04 : Number 484 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Grahaem / Gram NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Joni's Chrono Lovelives ["Catherine McKay" ] A cure for Joni-ism? [Julian51469@aol.com] RE: Otis and Marlena - a question ["Catherine McKay" ] Does Joni influence your life too much?(yeah and I f***kin' love it!) [Ju] Re: Does Joni influence your life too much? [Don Rowe ] Re: $ in Mattress - NJC [catman ] Re: how much, how often? [catman ] NJCRe: hair & moustaches & O&M [catman ] Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) [catman ] Re: $ in Mattress - NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Today in Joni History - October 29 [Today in Joni History ] And the wiring in the walls... [Janet Hess ] RE: Does Joni influence your life too much? ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: $ in Mattress - NJC [catman ] Re: $ in Mattress - NJC [catman ] RE: How much, how often? ["Takats, Angela" ] My Take on Joni's Jazz (LONG) [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: hair & moustaches & O&M [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: My Take on Joni's Jazz (LONG) ["Kakki" ] Re: Does Joni influence your life too much (MD) ? [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: My Take on Joni's Jazz (LONG) [Jerry Notaro ] Me Tarzan You sucked! :~) [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Tar Babie Babble (as in Tower of...) [Julian51469@aol.com] AtlantisNJC [catman ] Heart /Sandra/Stormy Weather/Joni [MP123A321@aol.com] lindsay's miracle ear... [RickieLee1@aol.com] sting unreels a hot one...(NJC) [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: sting unreels a hot one...(NJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Dreamland. Discuss [David Wright ] Re: Heart /Sandra/Stormy Weather/Joni ["Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Grahaem / Gram NJC Re: Pronunciation of the name "Graham". Most Canadians pronounce it "Gray'em". I've heard the odd person (very odd!) pronounce it "gram" especially when speaking of the flour or the crackers (or maybe it all started when we went metric!) I think these people may have been too influenced by American pronunciation, and, even at that, to my knowledge it's only certain regions where Americans pronounce it "Gram". It's a pretty popular name in Canada. I've noticed of late that a lot of "English" type names that hadn't been too popular here when I was a kid have flourished in the last 10-15 years. When I was a kid, all the boys were named David or Bob or Ken or Steve or Tom. Most of those are still popular here, but now my 9-year old has a lot of friends with names like Colin, Trevor, Nigel and so on. (He has one friend named Nigel that I like to tease by pronouncing it with a hard G.) I can't think of anyone my age, except for those either born in, or with immediate ties to, Great Britain, who have those names. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:32:11 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Joni's Chrono Lovelives Les, "Sneaking out of the background after a couple of weeks perusing the Joni Digest. Trying to catch a thread isn't so easy when they appear to have been running for a while." Please sneak out more often. You're a wonderful writer. You said: "I have to profess indifference to the who's and when's of JMs love life if for no other reason than the greater liklihood of taking away from me that which I find personal and connecting about her songs." I hear you. I never paid a great deal of attention to who Joni's current love interest might be either except as an interesting bit of information. What really speaks to me is what she says - it has universal appeal. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:44:43 EDT From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: A cure for Joni-ism? Lou wrote: One could say that I have a constant Jonie theme running through everything that I do:The Return to the Garden....but folks have been yearning for this since we gained an ego and left the "garden." I look to my fellow artists for a sense companionship and family, so that I don't feel so alone. Since I was about four years old Joni's been a friendly part of my psyche right along side Leonardo da Vinci, Shel Silverstien, Salvador Dali, Mozart, Dave Mallet,MC Escher, Paul Simon, Roald Dahl, boat builders, teachers and farmers. I think, as artists/creators we can only hope that the moment moves through us and that we have enough discipline and honesty to redirect it all uncensored on to our canvas, four-track, ball of clay, students, or whatever our medium may be. If Joni is seeping in through the seams and enough of all you are, want to be and have been is evident then why deny her? I don't. (For a while I was a rabid Captain Beefheart and Joni fan...you shoulda seen the weirdness that abounded.) Julian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:07:03 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Otis and Marlena - a question Jamie Z tells Patricia: "I have never seen O&M as an anti-semitic song. Coming from a Islamic backgroud myself, I found the references to Muslims sticking up Washington to be appropriately juxtaposed next to the images of these people enjoying themselves." I would never have made any Jewish connection myself. This is probably because there's so many of us darned Canadians (Christian, Jewish, anything else, and English- or French-speaking) who spend their winters in Florida (not me! too young, too poor! You've got to be at least 80 from what I can tell and either rich and staying in some fancy hotel, or poor and staying in a trailer park!) And even though I was the one who asked the "Muslims" question to begin with (although I understand it came up earlier, before I was here), it was more of a puzzle to me than anything, especially the Joni/black guy with his "Mooslems" cartoon balloon. I don't think Joni is anti-anyone (even lawyers!) I agree with those who've seen it more as a "there's-a-crisis-happening-somewhere-in-the-world-but-I'm-here-to-have-a-good-time-so-don't-bother-me-with-it" kind of thing. The very fact that she refers to them very generically as "Muslims", rather than any particular named political or terrorist group, (or whatever they might be) is, to me, her wicked sense of irony, showing the ignorance (willful or un- ) that people have of world events. They're vaguely aware that something is going on somewhere, but who's doing what to whom is relatively unimportant compared to the next tanning session - so they're all lumped in together under the name "Muslims". "Aw jeez, there's a bunch of Muslims sticking up Washington again. What's for dinner?" Yet, I don't think Joni is totally down on that either - everyone needs a break from the stress of modern life. I can go for weeks without listening to the news or reading the paper because a lot of it is just so upsetting - and I really don't GET so much of it and am powerless to do anything about it - that I need a break from it from time to time. I totally agree with Jamie's comment that "The repetition of Muslims sticking up Washington doesn't indicate any race to be compared with. The statement is both flippant and cutting." Elegantly stated. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:09:34 EDT From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Does Joni influence your life too much?(yeah and I f***kin' love it!) Wally K sez: Does a powerful figure in one's live have to be copied or replicated in order for them the be called influencial or do they simply have to open a door and let the inspired through into their own sense of genius? Joni herself has mentioned that she is not influenced by anyone...except her guitar teacher, her english teacher, her child Kelly/Killauren, her relationships with lawers and romances with friends and strangers, the state of world affairs, etc, etc,...but she always seems to find her own magical way of saying and doing things that speak to the rest of us. BTW, if Joni's not influenced by anyone then why is she doing an album of standards? If we are not influenced by anyone why should we keep listening so closely to Joni? It was under the influence of John Lennon that I woke up one day to the way our culture loves to put blame and responsibility on the "messenger" and not the "message." In the world of music it is Joni, Zappa, Beefheart, Harry Partch, Diamanda Galas, Yoko Ono, Annette Peacock, Stokhausen, etc that further reinforces these feelings - you don't have to like what they're doing but you can't deny their originality and genius and in a world that can't get enough of "follow the leader" it's a beautifull breath of fresh air. Julian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:39:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Does Joni influence your life too much? Boy, this is a whale of a thread. I'm going to have to do a little bit of organization on this one, as Joni has influenced me in so many ways. So here goes: 1. Things I no longer do since discovering Joni: Fear smoking Listen to my Jackson Browne albums with any regularity Look at chimneys as simply a necessary part of a fireplace Pass by buskers without dropping change in the hat Wear clothes with designer labels Refrain from singing at the dinner table or in public Consider myself a passable lyricist 2. Things I more deeply appreciate through listening to the music of Joni Mitchell: My wife My cats My mother's piano lessons That Theory of Music class I took in college Pain and loss as forces of growth rather than destruction The influence of jazz in popular music Road trips The importance of simplicity 3. Things I've done as a direct result of Joni's music (consciously or un-): Taken up the guitar, learning to play in alternate tunings Visited Memphis, TN Moved from composing instrumentals to full blown songs with vocals Revealed secrets of my life to complete strangers, just because they're Joni fans ... Planned vacations around concert dates So many more ways, so little time! I should add, in closing, that I listen to Joni everyday. Sometimes a song, sometimes an album side, sometimes a whole CD. I rarely do marathon sessions anymore -- I've found that the joy is greater when you ration it. So folks, is that too much -- if so, it sure doesn't feel like it. Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:37:55 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Grahaem / Gram NJC Colin is a scottish name. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:38:15 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: $ in Mattress - NJC I roll my own and they constantly go out. If you put them down they go out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:38:11 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: how much, how often? Almost everyday. Always have at least two in the car. One is nearly always NRH. At present there is (are?) the Hissing Demos, LOTC and NRH in the car. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:37:59 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJCRe: hair & moustaches & O&M My John has both a beard and moustache. his beard is not full tho. He has a goatee and sideburns that meet it. He once shaved it off and i forced him to grow it back! Not cos he is ugly, far from it,(he makes many a woman quake-especially with his dark chocoalte voice) but coc I like the beard and it really suits him. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:38:30 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) I don't think of myself as anything in the way of nationality. I don't 'feel' anything. I just metnioned what my background was cos it seemed appropriate. I even have difficulty in answering the question 'where are you from?'. I don't know what to say. i was born in Reading Berks, left for germany at 4 days old. Then lived all over the world. I moved 34 times from birth to age 25. The move here to our house was my 35th, and the only move I made by choice. My identity doesn't include nationalism or patriotism. I don't identify with these things. i think that is good, for me. There are people I know who have lived in the one area all their lives, know the people they were at school with etc. i find that weird. but maybe I missed out. I don't know. I certainly know I hated always being the new kid and losing friends and pets on a regualr basis. Nothing lasted. But I got to see lots of the world and different cultures. I think this helped me be non judgemental about people of different colour/race/nations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:47:34 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Grahaem / Gram NJC >Colin is a scottish name. It's also a semi-swear word in Quebecois French (Caline with an accent circonflex on the "a"). Hee-hee. (Derives from "Calice" which means chalice, which means nothing to us, but is - or was - kind of blasphemous in Quebec. Saying "Caline" (pronounced sort of like "Call IN") is similar to saying "darn" instead of "damn". Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:51:18 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: $ in Mattress - NJC >I roll my own and they constantly go out. If you put them down they >go >out. Jeez, I hope you're talking about cigarettes! :~D You quit drinking, I quit smoking. Are we about equal in the vice department? (Please do NOT answer that question - I can already sense what you're going to say!) Catherine (just another mutt in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:05:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - October 29 1969: The Saskatoon StarPhoenix publishes a strangely worded article about Joni entitled "Joni Mitchell Success Story." Read it at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/ss691029.htm 1970: Joni performs with James Taylor at the Paris Theater in London. 1994: The London Independent publishes an interview with Joni. It reads "I grasped that smoking was an irritant," she says, "I didn't believe it was a cause." So (and here the story takes a mildly Californian twist) she sought a second opinion from a Hawaiian mystic called Oleta. "She's a two-powered mystic. With you fully dressed and lying on a table, she can see into your body by going wall-eyed, seeing light and shadow through your clothes. I said, 'Look in my throat, Oleta. Do you see death there?' 'No,' she said. This sounds so crackpot: she sent me water. The water was electrically charged and commanded to sluice and slowly restore. She fixed me." Read the rest at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/lond-ind-941029.htm 1996: The albums "Hits" and "Misses" are released. - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:07:04 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: And the wiring in the walls... Over my first cup of coffee this morning, I found myself thinking about a certain man from Mars. This comes from today's Washington Post: Missing Cat Sounds Alarm T ST. NW, 3800 block, Oct. 14. A woman whose male cat had been missing for a month found the animal after it set off a security alarm in the basement of a neighbor who was out of the country. An Animal Control officer, unable to enter the basement legally, asked a veterinarian to declare the situation an emergency, which would give the officer the right to enter the neighbor's house. Meanwhile, the woman broke into the house and removed the cat. The veterinarian examined the cat, which had lost about five pounds and was slightly dehydrated, but was otherwise fine. - ---- Hugz to all, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, thankfully a homebody - ----------------- So when you see a man who's broken / Pick him up and carry him. And when you see a woman who's broken / Put her all into your arms 'Cause we don't know where we come from / We don't know what we are. Laurie Anderson, "Ramon" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:07:20 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Does Joni influence your life too much? Wally says: "this may sound as a very arrogant thing to say but it is actually rather sad because what i'm basically doing is admitting that i'm a very disabled person that lacks the capacity to assimilate experience." Oh, pooh, you do so assimilate experience. (So there! Nya-nya-nya!) It's just so much a part of you that you aren't even aware of it. You're obviously a warm, caring, intelligent and funny human being. It's so evident in your writing. "i have been touched, turned on so to speak, by many people but not influenced." That is the GOOD kind of influence - that helps you become a better human. The bad kind is like the kid who does everything his/her friends tell him/her to do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you do that. (Do you use your powers for good, and not for evil? hee-hee-hee.) "for instance, joni helped me become aware that it was all right to write songs about myself, but she didn't influence me stylewise." A lot of us were brought up to believe that talking about yourself or about your experiences was a bad thing. You were told (at least, I remember this) not to use the word "I" too many times in writing. And yet, later on, taking a creative writing course, you're told to write from experience - don't make things up. I think our parents may have confused selfishness with self-love. We were supposed to put others first - however, ironically, you can't love another person unless you love yourself. This isn't the same as arrogance or selfishness. It's being, as the French say, comfortable in your own skin. (Wally, if you're the village idiot, a lot of us are in biiiig trouble.) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:08:32 +0200 From: "Lori REASON" Subject: Re:JMDL Cookbook/birthday present Congratulations Marian!!! I think what you wrote was perfect. I cannot wait to get copies of it. Lori, of the Tribe of Joan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:18:04 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: $ in Mattress - NJC Me any vices? no. that sperm cover i bought for my keyboard was a complete waste of money. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:18:56 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: $ in Mattress - NJC Catherine McKay wrote: > >I roll my own and they constantly go out. If you put them down they >go > >out. > > Jeez, I hope you're talking about cigarettes! :~D Oh and of course I mean tobacco. Don't touch blow either any more. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 04:43:09 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: RE: How much, how often? Jason wrote: <> I think I listen to way too much Joni.....I only have about 3 CDs that aren't joni...whenever people come over they always comment that there's a joni cd in the player, she's in the car tape player...she's everywhere....that's how I like it. I think her music has influenced my playing and writing so much, just the way I sing too, I'll slide up and down notes (sorry, that's not the proper music term??) which used to piss my music teacher off so much, but hey ;-) I don't think JM has influenced my thinking/morals etc that much...I feel more open minded after listening to her songs and reading about her life....some people would say everything I do has something joni about it, like I can weave her into converstation when I want to...and I often want to....so there's my 2 cents Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:41:25 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: My Take on Joni's Jazz (LONG) Well, now it's MY turn to "Gloat" over Joni's Jazz! :~D These tapes just arrived in the mail yesterday, and before I did anything else I popped 'em in the player and began to immerse myself...and it's now less than 24 hours later and I'm on my third listen... I try not to dwell on the fact that I SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE. I was working in NJ, and Brian was going, so logistically it would have worked out great, but I decided to fly home that day instead. Well, the flight was cancelled, I ended up driving 12 hours from Philly to Greenville, was a vegetable for most of the weekend anyway, so it was sort of God's way of saying "You Idiot - You should have gone to Joni's Jazz!" But thank God, ...no, thank Simon!! for this WONDERFUL collection...first off, the quality is amazing! This isn't some blurry, muffled bootleg - this is a professional top-quality recording of a bona fide historical event! Simon, I'm FOREVER indebted to you for your efforts in capturing and distributing this event! And also a lil' tip of the cap to Jerry for your expeditious work... Now, on to the music: Firstly, major props here to Vernon Reid - this band is EXTREMELY tight, they don't miss a note or a beat that I can tell, especially amazing when you consider that a few of these songs get some re-arrangements and new treatments. Tape 1, Side A After some heartfelt comments by Danny Kapilian, the producer of the "Celebration", the band kicks off with Trouble Child. sounding like WAR in their prime. Toshi Reagon handles the song with a couple rough spots, but a nice start. Next, Carl Hanckcock Rux & Dean Bowman offer an even more sinister-than-the-original take on Jungle Line - has a pretty good groove but they don't know quite where to go with it. Then there's Jane Siberry...I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt here, but frankly, both her performances here are dreadful. She doesn't know the words, she doesn't know the melodies, she talks her way through songs, it sounds like drunk Aunt Lil doing bad karaoke at a wedding party or something. Was she sick? Was she stoned? Had she even HEARD these songs before? Luckily, in both cases, the following acts rescue her mediocrity. Ravi Coltrane comes on with Same Situation, and plays some beautiful sax, really lets the band get into the jazz groove, then takes of in a free-style which ends just as he's about to lose me. Tasty Stuff. Christina Wheeler offers up "Edith" & "Jericho", and again comes up a little lacking...is she a jazz singer? Maybe the monitors weren't working properly. Still, her singing is OK, what she's lacking in pitch she makes up for with her zeal (there are many of us JMDLer's who coulda done these better). Then, what sounds like Prince Be from PM Dawn sings a soulful Free Man In Paris, and PM Dawn does a song inspired by "I's A Muggin", even though I don't see a lot of resemblance between the 8 second blip on Mingus and this rap piece...I don't dislike it though, and it adds to the variety of sounds being presented, and like the Ravi sax number, just when I'm tired of it it's done. Side B "Don't Interrupt The Sorrow" kicks off this side and Chaka rocks and rules the show, her love for the music and for Joni really shines through...Even when she misses a verse she sells it so well you can't find any fault with the performance. I can't wait to hear her song on the Tribute record! Unfortunately, this is followed by the first of two Eric Anderson numbers, and like Jane Siberry before him, he's awful, to put it bluntly. I suppose he gets some credit for showing Joni alternate tunings all those years ago, but listening to him here is like watching some 90-year old throw out a historic first pitch - maybe the old-timer used to have his stuff, but man is it gone now! Hopefully he doesn't have to make a living doing this sort of thing... He mumbles through Just Like This Train but again the show gets picked up by Joe Jackson and Joy Askew doing Down You with a cadence of Case of You thrown in the middle section instead of the orchestration; it's a nice touch, and Joe's piano is note-for-note perfection, he doesn't just play the song, he inhabits it. The balance of this side continues on a high note, of particular pleasure is Sheryl Marshall's "ska" take on Raised on Robbery. Again, it's a joy to hear how tight the band is, you can tell that Reid put them all through the motions and they came prepared! Tape 2, Side A With this side begins the centerpiece of the show, the entire album Hejira done in sequence, and it's for the most part a highly enjoyable exercise...Joy Askew gets it going with a fine Coyote. John Kelly brings a very haunting quality to his songs (Amelia here and Shadows and Light earlier). Chaka scats and swings with Hejira, and though she sometimes seems to veer too far from the heart and soul of the song, she always finds her way back home. As a big PM Dawn fan, hearing their accurate take of Song For Sharon is a joy. Also a treat here are the backing vocals, an integral part of this song IMO. And the band is incredible, shifting from the pepped-up Hejira to the subtle, softer Sharon. Once again, Eric Anderson and Jane Siberry provide low, low points, Jane totally dismantling and disfiguring Strange Boy (even worse than Cassandra with her studio version of Black Crow), and Eric spoiling Furry. 'Nuff said about these two...don't quit your day jobs, guys...Oops, those ARE your day jobs! Side B It's funny, after what I had read previously here I was expecting Duncan Shiek to disappoint but he sounds just fine to me, handling Refuge (and Court and Spark on Tape 1) with clarity, vulnerability (as opposed to mediocrity) and sensitivity. Above all he shows respect for the integrity of the songs he performs. Toshi Reagon kicks with a salsa-fied Black Crow, actually it's pretty true to the original, with additional measures loose and funky. You can tell that Chaka has inspired her to wail a little here, she's enjoying herself and also gets Vernon Reid to fire up a smokin' guitar solo that ends all too quick - I was hoping he'd step up front a little more and make this song rock, but no complaints from me, except that it's over too soon! Erin Hamilton also serves up Blue Motel Room straight up, much like the album version, with the excellent color of Graham (Gray-um or Gram I don't know) Haynes on cornet. Again, a wonderful transition from Kickin on Black Crow to the smoky jazz lounge sound here. Then the encore, and a special treat indeed; Hendricks and Ross perform Twisted and Jumpin At The Woodside, and they both swing like mad! Then the real treat, Joni herself comes onstage and the band and ensemble close out with Help Me, which in this incarnation should be subtitled Bring Me a Lyric Sheet...I suppose you and I could get stage fright and muff line after line of a Joni song, especially with Joni standing there in front of us, but it's enough to make you squirm...after all, this was Joni's biggest hit, you'd think SOMEONE from the ensemble there to sing Joni's songs could pull it off. Oh well, when Joni throws in a couple of lines ("and you loo-ove your loviiiin'..."), and scats out the ending, it's heavenly! Really nice acoustic jazz guitar here as well... Anyway, don't take my dissing and negative comments too strongly, 98.6% of this show is heavenly as well, I'm forever grateful to have the opportunity to hear it, and enjoy it again and again!! When the singers are off, the band remains on, and when the singers are ON, the music soars! And for anybody that wants a copy and hasn't gotten hooked up yet, lemme know and I'll make it happen for you. Shoot, I'll even edit out the Jane and Eric bits if you like! :~) Bob NP: Duncan Sheik, "Refuge of the Roads" -------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:21:28 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: hair & moustaches & O&M Debra said: <> And I thought it was interesting in this context that on the Demo of Dreamland she sings "on the arm of MY Marlboro Man", and on the DJRD version it's "HER Marlboro Man", maybe that was intentional... Bob NP: "How Do You Stop" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:04:03 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: My Take on Joni's Jazz (LONG) Bob, What an excellent review and (IMO) accurate appraisal of the performances! I had almost the same take on it all. Only small quibble is regarding Duncan Sheik - I love his music but just thought he could have done so much better here. > But thank God, ...no, thank Simon!! for this WONDERFUL collection...first > off, the quality is amazing! Yes, simon, it's incredible!! > Firstly, major props here to Vernon Reid - this band is EXTREMELY tight, > they don't miss a note or a beat that I can tell, especially amazing when > you consider that a few of these songs get some re-arrangements and new > treatments. For me, Vernon Reid and the band were the big superstars of the night on many levels. As for Jane, Eric and a few others who seemed off, I wonder if they just got stage fright or intimidated trying to keep up with that amazing band. Also, Joni was sitting right there in front of them afterall, and some of the other performers like Chaka, would be a tough act to follow. Plus, I think Jane and Eric are more comfortable in smaller, intimate venues. Ooo, I felt for them. Kakki NP: New CSNY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:33:24 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Does Joni influence your life too much (MD) ? Joni affects me in many ways and on many levels. Mostly reactive as opposed to proactive. I dont do things because I know or know of Joni. And I dont have things in my life explained or revealed to me because of some insight I have received from her songs. To me she is like any great great artist or in particular a painter. I am certain that she is a great impressionistic master reincarnated. Sisley, Pissarro, or Monet dont influence me but they enhance my appreciation for art itself and the things they have created have given me unimaginable joy. Jonis songs are very personal. She is revealing much about herself in them. What has happened to her doesnt affect me per se. I marvel however at Joni on a couple levels. First her prodigious productivity in creating her art (and the quality of it over such a long period of time) and expanding it into many dimensions is awe inspiring. Many popular (and rich) artists arent within light years of her in this respect. Secondly she has been able to extricate herself from the vortex that many other artists have been sucked into producing less quality and often horrible product as their careers fizzle into meaningless parodies of their best years. Instead we have Joni arising to new heights of artistic conquest with her forays into Mingus, Turbulent Indigo, TTT, and the VG-8 maintaining her integrity as she did so. Just as Picasso went from the Cubist realist to the surrealist modernist maintaining his brilliance the entire journey.. From this I guess I have gained one thing. The knowledge that integrity wins in the end if one can keep it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:40:53 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: My Take on Joni's Jazz (LONG) Kakki wrote: > Bob, > > What an excellent review and (IMO) accurate appraisal of the performances! Absolutely. You have a great ear Bob, especially for Joe Jackson's brilliant piano playing. > > > As for Jane, Eric and a few others who seemed off, I wonder if they just got > stage fright or intimidated trying to keep up with that amazing band. Well, I was there for the rehearsal before the concert, 6th row center, and it was NOT stage fright but lack of preparation. It was an embarrassment. Chaka definite ruled the night and really knew Joni's music. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:39:37 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: My Take on Joni's Jazz (LONG) Bob said: >Once again, Eric >Anderson and Jane Siberry provide low, low points, Jane totally dismantling >and disfiguring Strange Boy (even worse than Cassandra with her studio >version of Black Crow), and Eric spoiling Furry. 'Nuff said about these >two...don't quit your day jobs, guys...Oops, those ARE your day jobs! Thanks, Bob, for saying something that I've been biting my tongue over for the last two weeks. I am very overcritical of anyone covering Joni so I had given Jane Siberry the benefit of the doubt that she was completely FREAKED that Joni was in the audience. I'm not sure what Eric's excuse was because he's been her friend since the beginning of time! Here's a question...do you think that having Joni sitting in the front row effected the performances? Although you would think professionals wouldn't get flustered, my answer would be yes, especially with the vocalists. Just my two cents. Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ weekend email address: suemc16@webtv.net "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:04:40 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Me Tarzan You sucked! :~) Sue asks: <> And Jerry adds: <> To which I'll add...with Jane, she definitely has the pipes, she was just unrehearsed, like she was just phoning it in...maybe if she knew Joni would be there she would have been prepared. Back in my community theatre days, we did a performance of a play with the playwright in the audience, and it was an INSPIRATION. We gave our best performance of the run, of course, we had rehearsed appropriately. Maybe Jane's schedule didn't allow her prep time, although I think that's also giving her the benefit of the doubt... Eric, on the other hand, is like my dear old Dad, the poor guy just has no sense of key, pitch or rhythm, at least not evidenced in his performances here. I don't think months of rehearsals would've helped him as much as one phone call to Paz to sit in for him! Bob NP: Joni and David Dye on the World Cafe -------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:25:46 EDT From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Tar Babie Babble (as in Tower of...) Debra sez: and... <_Tar Baby_ by Toni Morrison, which came out in the early 80s, after DJRD, but have read that she considers the name Tar Baby to be a racial slur, so I have to pay attention to that.> and let's not forget Sade's "Tar Baby"... I really don't have much to add except I am thrilled at the discourse this term, let alone Joni's song brings up for people. Has anyone mentioned that DJRD came out at a time when people weren't so worried about political correctness, not to mention the evolution of a word or slang terminology? These gems like "tar baby" litterally and figuratively get stuck in gooey dark syntax and cultural taboos. I really appreciate Debra (Kedabra)'s "all sides now" response....because I feel that's the time we are living in. Julian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:26:02 +0100 From: catman Subject: AtlantisNJC I just watched a very interesting Horizon documentary regarding Atlantis and whether there was any basis in fact to support it's existence. There isn't. Interestingly, sevral people suggested that to believe in this fantasy is a dangerous thing to do because it could lead on the slippery slope of 'superiority' and lead to genocide. The Nazi's believed that the Aryan race originated in Atlantis. One of the reasons for the belief in Atlantis is the fact that pyramids were built on either side of the Atlantic, suggesting a common link. The program showed how there isn't one. I know a woman, a very grand eccentric woma. She is wealthy and has taken on a big corporation and won. She has some strabge ideas. She believes atlantis existed and foundered because the people of Atlantis became evil. She believes the USA is populated by these evil Atlanteans, now reincarnated to cause further havoc! - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:15:12 EDT From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: Heart /Sandra/Stormy Weather/Joni Sue's post about Heart..... <> I also bought this when it came out and listened to some songs over and over, a needed break from Joni. Did anyone catch Sandra Bernhard singing Heart's "Magic Man" on The Friar's Roast - Comedy Central? Fairly amusing. I cannot get enough of Sandra's version of "Is That All There Is?" from Stormy Weather CD. One of my favorite CD's not released this past year. Great covers, I am hoping Joni's forthcoming release will be great. I will say Joni's performance on S.W. CD has been played less by me than the other cuts on the CD . This surprised me as I originally sought it out for Joni cut. Anyone else experience this? Maurice NP: my rickety old chair ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:47:00 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: lindsay's miracle ear... greetings listers! just thought i'd drop in and check on all you knuckleheads. i wanted you all to know that i am doing my best to prepare the next generation of JMDL members, which as many of you may have already learned, is a bit of a challenge! but, i am happy to report that my 8 year old daughter, the lovely lindsay, is becoming a joni fan! i am so proud!!! i am forever playing joni cd's and tapes in the car while i ferry her from school or to the store or, like tonight, to soccer practice, and she told me that by the time she was a teenager she would know all the words to every joni song there was. well, i almost had to pull over and give her a stick of gum. what a kid! (of course, it could be she just knows how to play her old man like a flute...if you knew lindsay, you would understand this is not outside the realm of the possible by any stretch of the imagination...) some of you may recall a post from way back when, when i shared lindsay's strange version of "facelift" whose pivotal line she understood to be: "happiness is the best spaceship." ??? today we were on our way to soccer and my joni tape is blasting out "lead balloon" (i hope you are proud of me kakki!!) and there's little lindsay, wailing away in the back seat. and once again, i had to frown and cock my head..."what are you singing honey?" i asked. and this is EXACTLY how she responded, as my heart prepared to burst: "sick her rover! then bend over like a red balloon, red red red red balloon" and once again, just like with the facelift/spaceship debacle, when i gently and lovingly corrected the little imp, she rather haughtily insisted she liked HER version better and refused to change it to joni's! call the lyric police! and, of course, the question that begs asking is this: SHOULD I GET THIS KID'S HEARING CHECKED - OR WHAT??? oh it ain't easy, raising a joni fan! hoping you are all well! sending love, ric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:47:01 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: sting unreels a hot one...(NJC) i don't know if you guys have already covered this (if so, press those delete buttons down) but has anyone (besides me) listened to sting's new cd, "brand new day"? oh my. sting is BACK! despite the rather mundane title (a great tune tho, with stevie wonder and james taylor and manu katche and a whole slew of other guests) the disc is full of mystery and depth and wonder. sting has, i think, reached the point in his life where he knows who he is and what he is about. it's a joy to listen to. his voice is in great form. it is just a great piece of work and i highly recommend it. now, a word of caution, before any of you decide to spend the bucks on MY recommendation, please recall that i am the list member who actually LIKES yoko ono and, a confession, i really do own a jon secada disc. how scary is THAT? well, there is much else to say, but i think i will skip it for now. just this: to those of you who have been so kind, and are keeping me in your thoughts and prayers during this awful time...thank you. that means so much to me, i can never express. and i want you all to know that i feel those thoughts and prayers. i really do! and in a very important way, they sustain me. bless you all. see you sometime. love, ric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:33:38 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: sting unreels a hot one...(NJC) In a message dated 10/28/1999 6:50:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RickieLee1@aol.com writes: << has anyone (besides me) listened to sting's new cd, "brand new day"? >> Ric, I've been listening to this CD for the past week and absolutely love it. An extremely well-written review was recently posted by Don Rowe, who gave it a B- but I am crazy about this new piece and would give it an A (where is that plus sign on my keyboard?). I really get a kick out of the middle eastern singers, and enjoy the country sing- a- long with James. It's quite a potpourri of songs, but to me it blends perfectly, in only a way that someone like Sting can do. Two thumbs up from me. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:51:51 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Dreamland. Discuss On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, dsk wrote: > In one of the stories, Brer Fox makes a > "contraption" covered with tar that he calls a Tar Baby. [snip] > I've never read _Tar Baby_ by Toni Morrison, which came out in the early 80s, > after DJRD, but have read that she considers the name Tar Baby to be a racial > slur, so I have to pay attention to that. I'm curious about whether it's tied > to the Uncle Remus stories and how they're viewed, or whether the name has > taken on (or always had) a life of its own. I don't know, but I think the use of "tar baby" as a slur (which I agree that it is, though Joni may use it ironically) is rooted in the Uncle Remus story. In it, the tar baby is, not just a contraption, but actually a human figure made out of tar which Brer Rabbit mistakes for a real person. Brer Fox dresses the tar baby in a jacket and a straw hat and sits it on a log on the side of the road. Brer Rabbit, passing by, says, "Howdy." No answer. "Howdy," he says again, louder. Still no answer. Brer Rabbit says something to the effect of, "I'll teach you manners!" and punches the tar baby with his right fist. It sticks fast, which makes him so mad he hits the tar baby with his left fist, then his right foot, then his left foot, and finally his head, I think. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:41:39 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Heart /Sandra/Stormy Weather/Joni I will say Joni's performance on S.W. CD > has been played less by me than the other cuts on the CD . This surprised me > as I originally sought it out for Joni cut. Anyone else experience this? > > Maurice > NP: my rickety old chair > To be quite honest I wasn't much impressed by Joni's performance of the song 'Stormy Weather'. It's the one standard we've heard her do so far that I don't think she nailed. Maybe the studio version will be better. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:55:09 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Grahaem / Gram NJC At 06:37 PM 10/28/99 +0100, catman wrote: >Colin is a scottish name. > > So is Heather ...... I knew there was 'something' about you Colin! ;-) Heather (with gray and scottish roots ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:00:39 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: lindsay's miracle ear... At 06:47 PM 10/28/99 EDT, RickieLee1@aol.com wrote: > >and this is EXACTLY how she responded, as my heart prepared to burst: > >"sick her rover! >then bend over like a >red balloon, red red red red balloon" > Oh she's your daughter, alright ;-) Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 04:12:33 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: RE: sting unreels a hot one...(NJC) On Thursday, October 28, 1999 11:47 PM, RickieLee1@aol.com [SMTP:RickieLee1@aol.com] wrote: > oh my. sting is BACK! despite the rather mundane title (a great tune tho, > with stevie wonder and james taylor and manu katche and a whole slew of other > guests) ObNotVeryImpressiveThing: I recently rubbed shoulders (read: breathed the same air as) the guy who produce(s/ed) Stevie Wonder and Luther Vandros, in a tiny blues club in Chicago. I was dragged along there by the tour manager for Nazareth (yes, really :) who was drinking in the hotel bar where I was staying. (I was staying in the hotel, not the bar.) He was Scottish, I'm english, and we got chatting. Wierd barmy small world this is... 1. Glad to hear that Sting's back. Must buy the CD. 2. Must drink less on weekday evenings. 3. Must stop cluttering up people's e-mail with insane drivel. 4. There is no 4. G'night! - --Chris Chris Marshall Secure Systems Integration Ltd Web: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 7970 459 553 Fax: +44 (0) 1954 201 741 E-mail: chris@secure-si.co.uk PGP key: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/chris/pubkey.txt Fingerprint: 49F7 5132 C599 6ADC 47E7 844E A612 3F53 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #484 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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