From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #481 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 27 1999 Volume 04 : Number 481 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: No Apologies ["Kakki" ] Re: Otis and Marlena ["Kakki" ] NJC: HAIR: mark, kakki, and colin [Robert Holliston ] RE: HAIR njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] november 7th -- for the astrologically-minded only (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Haircuts, Cookbooks & Julian - NJC ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: HAIR njc [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: NJC: Haircuts, Cookbooks & Julian [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: NJC: Haircuts, Cookbooks & Julian [Jerry Notaro ] Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Dreamland. Discuss ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Dreamland. Discuss [Louis Lynch ] Re: joni & Ricki ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Wonders never cease - NJC ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: HAIR njc ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: NJC Re: hoyt axton [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Haircuts, Cookbooks & Julian - NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: NJC Re: hoyt axton ["Catherine McKay" ] Jonis Chronological Love Life [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Otis and Marlena ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Otis and Marlena (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) [catman Subject: Re: No Apologies > A couple of months ago I mentioned that Juan and Freddy are mentioned in the > liner notes on CMIARS...Does this enlighten any listers as to who they > are??? That's a good catch, Russell. I just pulled out my CM and see them listed as Federico Jimenez and Juan Jimenez in the "Thanks to" section. I'd imagined that Freddy and Juan could be anybody - maybe her pool-playing buddies, or two young, precocious boys who are children of a friend, or alternate nicknames for a couple of her cats or even imaginary friends or alter egos. ;-) But you got my bloodhound gene going and I did some web searching and the only thing I could come up with that seems intriguing is a Federico Jimenez who is on the Board of Trustees (along with actors Edward James Olmos and Jimmy Smits) of the Latino Museum of History, Art & Culture, which is just a few blocks from me here in L.A. He is also listed as the owner of "Federico's Gallery". Hmmmm... Kakki NP: TTT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:42:22 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena E.T. wrote: >Joni is certainly not being nasty or racist in her caricature of Otis & Marlina. Rather she paints two >adorable characters I have grown to love more & more over the years. It never struck me as racist, either. There were a number of years where it seemed like half the people in the Northeast either vacationed in or retired to Florida. Most of my east coast relatives had a place there at one time or another. I always looked at the song as more of a somewhat humorous and generalized indictment of indulgent consumption of fun in the sun and jaded indifference to real world problems. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:17:55 -0700 From: Robert Holliston Subject: NJC: HAIR: mark, kakki, and colin You guys are reminding me of one of my favorite '60s musicals! ("Give me a head with hair! Long beautiful hair....") Congratulations to Mark and Kakki for diving right in (after a few walks around the block, that is ;-) When I met Colin last year he already had short hair, and very handsome he looks with it (trying to imagine Colin with shoulder-length hair is like dancing about architecture - OOPS! wrong thread ;-) Jumping on the wagon, I'm going to go back to my close-cropped look ASAP. Not much will be missed up top (time and other thieves), but at least the back and sides will be more easily managed. big hugs to all, Roberto (npimh: good morning starshine, the earth says hello/you twinkle above us, we twinkle below...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 05:30:52 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: HAIR njc after having a beard and shoulder-long hair for years, i decided long ago to wear my hair really short and buy always clothes in the same colors, so that i wouldn't have to spend more than 30 minutes showering, towelling, and getting dressed. except for gift clothes, all my t-shirts are white, all my pants are dockers, i always wear plaid flannel shirts in earth hues and my shoes are sensible and brown. all my bermuda shorts are solid grey. am i a capricorn or what? wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 06:01:01 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: november 7th -- for the astrologically-minded only (NJC) this month's new moon will occur on november 7. each new moon is a power day, a day that can bring our wishes easily to fruition. because this new moon will occur in scorpio, you may want to include on your list wishes concerning one or more of the categories ruled by scorpio: transformation, power, strength, courage, integrity, the willingness to discard and rise above the lower aspects of our emotions by choosing the high road and forgiveness. the new moon will occur at 10: 53 pm est on november 7. so the late evening hours of sunday the 7th or the morning hours of monday the 8th are the best times to make your wish list. wallyk, aka dionne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:34:54 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) Bob blasphemously wrote: >Or it's possible that they recall that the last record CSNY did was the >beyond-horrid "American Dream"...I couldn't even make it to the end of the >record it was so awful! And so Helen immediately leaps to the boys' defense! Sorry, but it's the boys! OK, OK, so American Dream wasn't the greatest album in the world, but Crosby was still recovering, and I understand there were some other problems too. There are still some good songs there, though. Some not-so-good ones, admittedly, but the better ones (IMO) include: Got It Made, Soldiers Of Peace, Night Song, and Compass is one of Crosby's best (IMO), post-recovery songs (lyrics will follow below, I love this song)! I think also the fact that they started "Looking Forward" on their own, ie. with no record company backing, simply because they "wanted" to record again makes a big difference too. No time/budget restraints other than those they put upon themselves. OK, I'll shut up now, I've got it out of my system. Suffice to say that judging from the comments on the Lee Shore, "Looking Forward" is a very good album - can't wait until it's finally available here! Helen Compass (in part) I have wasted ten years in a blind-fold Ten-fold more than I've invested now in sight I have travelled bevelled mirrors in a fly-crawl Losing the reflection of a fight But like a compass seeking north (seeking north) There lives in me a still, sure, spirit part Clouds of doubt are cut asunder (clouds of doubt) Shining from the compass of my heart (shining from my heart) _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:43:58 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Haircuts, Cookbooks & Julian - NJC Julie wrote: >What aging divas have kept their hair long--- Stevie Nick, Jerry Hall >Lauren Hutton, Patti Smith, Steve Tyler, Joni, Carly, David Crosby, >Bonnie Rait and now David Bowie and Madonna.) David Crosby has regrown his. The photos of him in the Huntsville jail show a very short-back-and-sides! Hardly recognisable at all - no trademark moustache either! Helen ______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 07:33:21 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Cotton Avenue I went back and listened several times to the passsage referred to and Joni is clearly saying "sizin'" because she referres in the verse to people sitting around checking other people out. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 07:57:17 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena (NJC) and here all this time I thought the song was about Otis Campbell (from Andy Griffith) and Marlene Dietrich where Barney has put Otis in jail to sober up, and Marlene comes to his rescue singing "......see what the boys in the back room will have......" Sorry for ruining a good thread, but I'm feeling silly this morning : ) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:20:36 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) Hi all joni guitar-freaks! I hope we can come to an agreement on the chords for Urge for going here. Two things I think need to be stressed: 1) It's *very* useful to have the chord shapes written out when quoting the songs. That way we can be sure what chord shapes we are talking about. 2) It seems that we are actually referring to *different* versions of the song. What pat wrote is how he remembers Joni teaching it to him. Who's to say that the recorded version that most of us know is the same as this? I don't think it is - because the chords he has given for the chorus are very different. The chords for the recorded version (from the "Hits" CD) of the chorus are essentially: G D A and I get the urge for going ... pat wrote them as: C D Amaj7 So the version Joni showed him must have been different. This wouldn't surprise me - early versions of "Little Green" had different chords, and recent live performances show Joni changing the chords to songs like "Amelia" and "Just like this train". So PLEASE remember, we are talking about different versions of the song, so no wonder the chords don't match! There are accurate chords and tablature for the Hits Cd version of Urge available from the Hits songbook. As I remember, the tuning is given as standard, and the book's version for this song looked and sounded fine to me. Also, just to clarify pat's explanation: >also, what I'm referring to here >as an 'Amaj7 & Gmaj7' is a 3-finger Fmaj7 position moved up to 5 & 3, >respectively... hope that's clear enough) This is a bit confusing, but essentially pat's Amaj7 is an A (x07650) and pat's Gmaj7 is a G6/A (x05430). These are actually the same chord shapes as given on the jmdl site. Just to summarise: pat's chords are no doubt fine for playing the version of Urge that Joni showed him, but to play the *recorded* version, you need different chords. The ones from the Hits songbook or the ones on the jmdl site are fine for this. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:20:58 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: HAIR njc In a message dated 10/27/1999 4:32:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@interserver.com.ar writes: << i decided long ago to wear my hair really short and buy always clothes in the same colors, so that i wouldn't have to spend more than 30 minutes showering, >> Didn't Einstein do that too? GMTA! (great minds think alike) Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:26:19 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) I love Howard's take on the different chord shapes one of which was shared directly by Joni with someone and another taken directly from the "recorded" version. Personally I believe that one plays any song to fit the way they want to play or sing a given song. Although its always cool to see someone play the details "right off the record". Having said that I have noticed how most people on the list have this idea that musicians are bonded to a song's chords and details like a siamese twin. That they are always bound to play a song a certain way under penalty of the court. My experience has been that unless a song has some signiture instrumental passage (the introduction to Layla for instance) the songwriter will frequently deviate from the original playing of it. Joni plays Woodstock today at her performances light years from her original. Even Eric Clapton plays Layla on his unplugged version in a slow shuffle as opposed to the histrionic Phil Spector mode of the original album. Of course "fans" love the version that they heard first. However that two versions (or more) exist is more than a possibility it is a probability. Like the weather this isnt good or bad it just IS. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:28:26 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC: Haircuts, Cookbooks & Julian <> I also can't get enough of vintage Stevie...his run from "Music of My Mind" to "Songs In The Key of Life" is matched only by Joni, IMO... But for all his wonderful melodic and rhythmic gifts, and his ability to play a multitude of instruments in spite of his handicaps, his lyrics have always been his weakest suit...but, like you say, who cares because his songs are such a joy to sing! "Joy Inside My Tears" from what I've understood is celebrating his relationship with his new love...was this Syreeta Wright? I'm not sure of all the personal dirt, but remember on the same record is "Isn't She Lovely" which celebrates their love and the child they had at this time...all "Joy" is saying is that his new love replaces the tears of former broken relationships with joy, I don't see it as anything much deeper than that, really. Bob NP: Yes, "Perpetual Change" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:40:40 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC: Haircuts, Cookbooks & Julian Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > < days......Remember "Joy Inside My Tears?" I've been singing it for years, > but what's it really about? Please explain if you can...>> > > I also can't get enough of vintage Stevie...his run from "Music of My Mind" > to "Songs In The Key of Life" is matched only by Joni, IMO... I remember rehearsing some songs from C&S many years back with the musicians I was working with back then. We were on a break and chatting and remarked that Stevie was a true musical genius. These were hard core Joni fans and they looked at me like I was nuts. I just remarked that time would tell. Well, it has. I've been happy to hear Joni refer to his musical genius on more than a few occasions. Jerry np: Patti LuPone - Matters of the Heart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:57:07 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: This Just in... Just thought you guys might like to see this excerpt from today's XTC digest: "Thank you Gary Hooper for backing me up on 'Hejira". When I reccomend Joni Mitchell, people tend to either think I'm kidding or use it as proof of my giving in to hippie impulses, accompanied by a complete loss of taste in music. Niether one, folks. I'm being serious and I still love the Buzzcocks, but Hejira is a truly wonderful album! And only Joni can write an album full of road imagery while avoiding sounding like Jackson Browne! (thank God) Hejira is easily in my top ten, too. Absolutely breathtaking. I would reccomend 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns" and "Court and Spark" as well. Her music from this period (mid 70's) is not terribly accessable-it takes a few listens to appreciate what she's up to-but it is so rewarding when you do get it!" I love that last bit..."it takes a few listens to appreciate what she's up to..." Bob NP: The Eagles, from their first, don't know the title, the one that goes..."there's a train leaves here this morning, I don't know, what I might be on..." -------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:03:35 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Haircuts, Cookbooks & Julian Bob writes: << "Joy Inside My Tears" from what I've understood is celebrating his relationship with his new love...was this Syreeta Wright? I'm not sure of all the personal dirt, but remember on the same record is "Isn't She Lovely" which celebrates their love and the child they had at this time...all "Joy" is saying is that his new love replaces the tears of former broken relationships with joy, I don't see it as anything much deeper than that, really. >> I think Syreeta Wright was/is the wife of Stevie Wonder, and their baby Ayeesha from "Isn't She Lovely" just had her own baby. (makes me feel old) I guess Stevie is going to have to come out with "Isn't She Lovely, I'm so glad I don't have to raise her". :-) Even though not many people can match Joni's lyrics, as for Stevie I always liked the lyrics to "Living for the City." They weren't very deep, yet I enjoyed singing the song. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:31:35 -0400 From: Linda Worster Subject: Re: NJC: Haircuts, Cookbooks & Julian Bob said: >> I also can't get enough of vintage Stevie...his run from "Music of My Mind" >> to "Songs In The Key of Life" is matched only by Joni, IMO... I'd also include "Secret Life of Plants". I played those albums over and over and over..... He is a genius. IMHO I also agree about his lyrics being the weakest link, but what a voice!!!!!!!! It more than makes up for any weak lyric cause he sings it so well, who cares indeed. and Jerry added: >I've been happy to hear Joni refer to his musical genius on more than a >few occasions. Makes me smile too. Linda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:37:36 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC: Stevie Wonder <> And "Living for the City" is a PERFECT example of what I was talking about Jimmy. It's great to sing, but the rhymes are kind of suspect, he rhymes Mississippi with Pretty, Dirty with Early, etc, and the story of the poor guy who goes to jail is just a little too cliched to be believed but it's *wonderful* to sing, and more important, it's significant that Stevie was writing about social concerns and relevant topics as opposed to the Ohio Players/Commodores songs of the same time...I just wish he was more prolific NOW because he's still got it! The last record of his I picked up was "Conversation Peace" which I liked a lot... Bob NP: Neil Young, "The Losing End" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:52:15 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) The Kakkiceratops wrote: "In some ways it could make some sense for an artist(s) to finance their own album. They have more control and deal with less of the whole "recoupment" and record biz bureaucracy thing." You definitely have a point. I suppose it's another of life's ironies. You want to get recognition for what you do, you get your big break, you become rich and famous and suddenly you've lost the control you once had over your life and your artistic integrity. So now you're eating filet mignon instead of crackers and peanut butter, you've got a fancy house instead of some crappy room in a dorm or a boarding house but, by doing this, you give up the control you had to do things your way. They're putting makeup on your face, redoing your hair, making you dress in uncomfortable clothes and so on. It's like artists of the renaissance or classical musicians kowtowing to their patrons in order to do the thing they love - but then they end up painting portraits of the master and his family (editing out the flaws) or dedicating sonatas to Lady So-and-So. The only solution seems to be taking a risk and financing oneself (and at this point, I guess these guys can afford it). I'm hopeful that with the internet and so on, there's a real chance for people to succeed this way too. They may not make the big bucks, but can make a living at it. They have a solid fan base who are very loyal and respect within the artistic community and, bonus, they don't lose touch with the common folk. I'm thinking of people like Jane Siberry and Loreena McKennitt - and Joni, of course, who always (maybe not totally always) stuck to her guns and maintained her integrity (even on bad hair days!) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:26:36 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present Catman, the righteous, says: "I don't get drunk tho!" Hey, back off! I don't get *drunk* (this is silliness talking by the way - I'm not *really* angry). I just get pleasantly buzzed - 2 or 3 drinks is about it for me (if they could only come up with a way to keep the slight buzz at an even keel, that would suit me just fine. Maybe I should just fill up an IV bag with a solution of alcohol that would remain at a constant level in the bloodstream... disgusting thought.) I don't get "drunk" anymore after one bad experience where I actually don't remember a few things that I did and, fortunately for me, I was with friends, so they never let me do anything terribly bad (although I managed to lose both contacts lenses AND my glasses that evening and my eyesight is really bad, so, not only was it foolish and stupid, it taught me a good lesson, and it served me darn right! This is going back a long way now. I'm older now, but not much wiser.) I just don't like the thought of not remembering. I also decided that, if I was going to make a fool of myself, I wanted to be fully aware of it. Catman Colin also said: "this list has made me more confident in real life. I am better on a one to one or when I have audience, like when i go to do my talks. I can stand in front of 100 people and talk for two hours easily, but in a party situation I just am quiet and in the corner." I know what you're saying. You can talk in front of the audience, because you're talking about something you know and possibly love and the people have come there 'specially to hear you talk - you're the expert. I used to be the same way - I could never get up and do a speech. They used to force us to do "public speaking" in school, but they never actually taught us how to do it. I must say, the way they do it with my kids is a lot gentler than how they did it when I was a kid. Back then it was just, "Here. Write a speech about [they'd give you the topic], memorize it and get up in front of the class and say it." Now they have the kids work on topics as a team and they give them more control over what they want to talk about, and they take turns presenting. I can get up and make a speech or presentation at work now as long as I know what I'm talking about (and let's hope I do, since why else would I be the one doing the talk!) and I've finally gotten it through my thick skull that I really am the expert on this issue. I could get up there and make things up and people would believe me because they don't know *anything* about my area of expertise. I also find that looking around at the different people helps, make eye contact with some of them (it sounds scary at first, but then you see them as individual people) and remember all the goofs in school who used to stand up and make ridiculous statements (I found English lit classes were the worst for that - there was always someone thinking he or she had discovered something new in T.S. Eliot's poetry), or think of the boring speeches you've had to listen to at work sometimes, and realize that you really can do a better job than them - if they can do it, you can do it. It's kind of a version of "picture them naked" (except it's more like "picture them brainless!") and it works for me. So far. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:34:01 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) Colin says: "roots are not good, but on a man they are awful!" Sexist. Roots are roots. And Colin goes on: "i have been going grey since my middle 20's. It's being half spanish that does it." I always blamed mine on the Irish side - but those conquistadores travelled up the coast of England and Ireland 'way back when, didn't they? So maybe it is their fault after all! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:04:05 -0400 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: hoyt axton i was very said to learn this morning that singer songwriter hoyt axton died of a heart attack. bill NP Southbound, hoyt axton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:07:33 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Dreamland. Discuss Mark, that was excellent! Your comments made me laugh: "Miss Fortune (I love that word play - misfortune/Miss Fortune) just wants to bag a rich husband. I'm not sure what her 'big game gun' is supposed to be literally but I love the image." I have a friend who never married who used to joke about her single status by pretending to be a cavewoman, bopping a man on the head and dragging him back to her cave. After miming that bit she'd say, "I got me one!" And when I was in university and a bunch of us would go out to a pub hoping to meet guys, some of them would refer to it as "hunting". Sick, but silly. So the "big game gun" image works in that context - big game ain't just any guy, it's one with lots of cash! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:09:06 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Dreamland. Discuss Very nice interpretation! Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:25:49 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: joni & Ricki Catman says: "Just saw a video circa 79 of RLJ singing Chuck E's In Love... At first I thought it was joni;long blonde hair, beret, over bite. the voice is nothing like but it is very distinctive as is Joni's." Ricky was definitely looking very Joni-esque at that time. Which made it come as a surprise to me that RLJ had made catty remarks about Joni's jazz attempts. I'd have thought that anyone who *looked* that much like Joni (I thought it was one of those imitation/flattery things) would have appreciated Joni more. However, context is everything - something may have been left out or lost in the translation, I suppose. I like RLJ too. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:38:30 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) Jimmy, adding "2 strands of hair to the kettle" (now there's a pleasant brew for almost Hallowe'en - just add some eye of newt and stir!) says: "I always thought Joni was singing to me in "Just Like This Train". "Dreaming of the pleasure I'm going to have Watching your hairline recede My vain darling" I think that is such a sweet line in that song and I've always loved it - it is so loving and affectionate, suggests the relationship will last long enough and will be strong enough to not only withstand, but to love, the changes that come with the aging process (notice she didn't mention anything about love-handles though!). It reminds me of some quite old couples I see every now and then still holding hands when they walk - just a small but very sweet gesture of true affection. Awww. "Now that I'm 43, the vanity is gone along with most of the hair. I've got a nicely shaped head, and no sour grapes here." Jimmy: a) you're lucky you have a nicely shaped head! b) I bet you're just soooo cute. ;) You know what bugs me? My husband is five years older than me, has a full head of hair - and nary a grey one in the bunch. And here's me with the mousy grey-brown that I've had since I was about 30. Life just isn't fair, is it? Oh, damn fate and faulty genes - just damn them, I say! I tell him that he has no grey hairs because he has given them all to me. Hee-hee. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:46:41 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC Re: hoyt axton Bill said: <> I saw that too this morning, Bill, and was going to mention it this morning but it slipped my mind...I don't have any of his recordings but I do remember him for his songs recorded by others, most notably "Joy to the World" (The Three Dog Night 'Jeremiah was a bullfrog' one), "The Pusher", and my fave of his, also a Steppenwolf record, "Snowblind Friend". Bob NP: Neil Young, "Oh Lonesome Me" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:52:19 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) Catherine McKay wrote: > Colin says: "roots are not good, but on a man they are awful!" > > Sexist. Roots are roots. maybe but I am very used to seeing them in women. > > > And Colin goes on: "i have been going grey since my middle 20's. It's being > half spanish that does it." > > I always blamed mine on the Irish side - but those conquistadores travelled > up the coast of England and Ireland 'way back when, didn't they? So maybe > it is their fault after all! i think so. I think the dark skinned/haired Irish are from that root. > > > Catherine (in Toronto) > cateri@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:52:23 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present Oh Catherine, you have gone down in my estimation now-I thought you were a lush! I HATE the feeling of being drunk. Got drunk a lot when younger. Could never judge it so I quit altogether. About public speaking: When i do mine, for which I am popular because people leave on an up, I always forget what I am talking about! I go off on some tanget and then forget how to get back and what to get back to. So I say 'what was I talking about?' and someone yells out what it was. They find this amusing and think it is part of my 'act'. It isn't! I really do go blank. Some places i go to they tell me I have a way of getting away 'with murder' in that i can be blunt and to the point without causing offence. I think your reasoning for why i can do this is probably quite accurate. i have no idea why I can do it. Something happens once I am up there and get very animated and into the 'flow'. I have a good time and so do the audience. Usually these occasions are solemn affairs 'cept when i do them. i don't have any set plans, or talks. i just start talking and see what comes out. Often i think ' I didn't know I knew that' or 'I haven't made that connection before'. The laughter always surprises me. i don't tell jokes and don't set out to be amusing. it just happens. I am told it the is way I say things and the anologies I use. I have had one, no, two bummers. i knew I was in trouble the minute I arrived-I thought I was at the Tory party conference!(a bit like a group of staunch republicans). bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:52:14 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) Catherine McKay wrote: > Jimmy, adding "2 strands of hair to the kettle" (now there's a pleasant brew > for almost Hallowe'en - just add some eye of newt and stir!) says: "I always > thought Joni was singing to me in "Just Like This Train". > > "Dreaming of the pleasure I'm going to have > Watching your hairline recede > My vain darling" > > I think that is such a sweet line in that song and I've always loved it - it > is so loving and affectionate, suggests the relationship will last long > enough and will be strong enough to not only withstand, but to love, the > changes that come with the aging process (notice she didn't mention anything > about love-handles though!). And look how bald James Taylor is now! Personally, I find baldness attractive. Don't know why never knew anyone bald growing up but my first 'love' was going bald, young I might add. What i detest to see is strands of hair combed over to hide it. Looks so ridiculous-as if we can't see they are balding. Even worse is when they wear a syrup. Ugh! Never saw one that wasn't obvious and hideous. > It reminds me of some quite old couples I see > every now and then still holding hands when they walk - just a small but > very sweet gesture of true affection. Awww. > > "Now that I'm 43, the vanity is gone along with most of the hair. I've got a > nicely shaped head, and no sour grapes here." > > Jimmy: > a) you're lucky you have a nicely shaped head! > b) I bet you're just soooo cute. ;) > > You know what bugs me? My husband is five years older than me, has a full > head of hair - and nary a grey one in the bunch. And here's me with the > mousy grey-brown that I've had since I was about 30. Life just isn't fair, > is it? Oh, damn fate and faulty genes - just damn them, I say! I tell him > that he has no grey hairs because he has given them all to me. Hee-hee. > > Catherine (in Toronto) > cateri@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:52:29 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) Catherine The Grey said: <<"Dreaming of the pleasure I'm going to have Watching your hairline recede My vain darling" I think that is such a sweet line in that song and I've always loved it>> And I love the twist she added on the '98 tour, that sinister laugh after she sustained on the "have": Dreaming of the pleasure I'm gonna have...heh heh heh heh... Watching your hairline recede, my VAIN darling... Don't know if this if playful or rather Joni getting one over on bald-headed JT or what... Bob, who just saw Jimmy's receding hairline the other day on the JMDL photo gallery... NP: Neil, "Birds" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:32:19 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) > > I always blamed mine on the Irish side - but those conquistadores >travelled > > up the coast of England and Ireland 'way back when, didn't they? So >maybe > > it is their fault after all! > >i think so. I think the dark skinned/haired Irish are from that root. When I was a kid and my mother referred to one side of my family as being "black Irish", I thought we were part African! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:34:02 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC Re: hoyt axton Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > .I don't have any of his recordings but I do > remember him for his songs recorded by others, most notably "Joy to the > World" (The Three Dog Night 'Jeremiah was a bullfrog' one), "The Pusher", > and my fave of his, also a Steppenwolf record, "Snowblind Friend". And don't forget that his mother co-wrote Heartbreak Hotel. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:43:16 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) << Bob, who just saw Jimmy's receding hairline the other day on the JMDL photo gallery... >> Thanks a lot Bob. Now 600 people can see it too! ( :~) If our dear Joni ever sees it perhaps she'll write me a song "Propecia Plains" Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 05:43:03 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: Wonders never cease - NJC Helen, I loved hearing about your little adventure to a new suburb - no doubt you'll be going back soon...it is so great to have a joni connection at a music store, like you said, it is very hard to do...what a find - so many albums!! that is so rare down here.....congratulations and I hope you enjoy your find! (I walked into a local guitar store awhile back and found a joni-signed guitar on display, I was so thrilled and chatted with the owner for ages, who told me he had lent joan a guitar when she toured in Sydney in the 80's and she returned it signed, with a big thank you...sigh..and aarrgghh - -Ange Sydney <> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:47:32 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: HAIR njc Wally K says: "i decided long ago to wear my hair really short and buy always clothes in the same colors, so that i wouldn't have to spend more than 30 minutes showering" And Terry asks: "Didn't Einstein do that too? GMTA! (great minds think alike)" I heard that not only did Einstein pick all the same colours, he also bought clothes that were all the same (like 6 shirts exactly the same) so he wouldn't have to waste brain cells worrying about what to wear. Makes sense where socks are concerned, that's for sure, then you don't have to pair the little suckers up when you take them out of the dryer - just throw 'em all in the drawer and get dressed in the dark. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:49:38 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) >Don't feel too bad Jurrasic Jimdles -- my lovely >wife's response to the news of the latest CSN&Y tour >was: > >"THOSE guys?!? Man, the grandkids must need college >tuition." LOL - your wife sounds great! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:47:40 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: hoyt axton <> Didn't know that Jerry, good trivia! And of course, Heartbreak Hotel was a hit for Elvis, who also recorded "You're So Square (I Don't Care)" which was also recorded by Joni!! It always comes back to Joni, dunnit? :~) Bob NP: Neil, "War of Man" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:03:56 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Haircuts, Cookbooks & Julian - NJC Helen, on hair, wrote: "David Crosby has regrown his. The photos of him in the Huntsville jail show a very short-back-and-sides! Hardly recognisable at all - no trademark moustache either!" He IS the walrus! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:04:29 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: hoyt axton My favorite Hoyt Axton song of all times best line: "Work your fingers to the bone and whata you get....bony fingers" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:52:33 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Roots - Hair and otherwise (absolutely NJC) Catherine and colin discussed roots: > > I always blamed mine on the Irish side - but those conquistadores > >travelled up the coast of England and Ireland 'way back when, didn't they? So > >maybe it is their fault after all! > > >i think so. I think the dark skinned/haired Irish are from that root. > > When I was a kid and my mother referred to one side of my family as being > "black Irish", I thought we were part African! When my father told me we were "black Irish", I somehow thought that sounded very swashbuckling and romantic. I was also glad to be of that "strain" because I never had to worry about laying in the sun at the beach or pool for more than a few minutes ;-) He attributed it to soldiers in the Spanish Armada stopping in for extended visits on the isle, but I later learned that the Spanish roots in Ireland go much farther back to more ancient times. My father amazingly never got a grey hair until he was well into his 60s and has a brother in his 90s now who still has hardly any grey. Kakki NP: Court and Spark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:25:18 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: NJC Re: hoyt axton >My favorite Hoyt Axton song of all times best line: "Work your fingers to >the >bone and whata you get....bony fingers" That's a good one! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:30:11 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Jonis Chronological Love Life I have been seeking out and finding among all of jonis songs certain songs that are rarely mentioned on the list or in the cafe and one in particular I have plans to submit a kind of in-depth analysis of the music because its so interesting. In doing this I began to notice that many times, I believe, joni sends messages to her former relationships, in a classy way of course, yeah right. Anyway there have been many mentions of Joni being an item with certain main guys like Klein (of course) but there were a couple of other significant relationships over the years. Can someone either post or send me privately a sort of chronology of the main relationships and their alleged duration. (Say John Jones from 1974-76, ). I am asking this because many of the references in these songs are cryptic in nature and to know who it was might give an insight into several aspects of the songs themselves. Now Joni herself references her having collected men "like railroad ties" and the reference in Cactus Tree to "a drummer and a dreamer and of course there may be more" indicates that its ok to ask this question. Im sure someone out there knows the answer or most of it. I would appreciate it if someone could send me this information. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:34:24 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena I didn't think of Otis and Marlena as Jewish either until someone mentioned Seinfeld the other day and that got me picturing them as Seinfeld's Uncle Leo or George Costanza's parents. I had difficulty actually trying to figure out whether they were a husband-and-wife, or whether Otis was a servant of some kind. I pictured him as being a black guy (maybe I was thinking of Otis Redding!), chauffeur type, and Marlena as this middle-aged, or young-old (under 80!) rich white lady - kind of a "Driving Miss Daisy" scenario. He's driving her around, checking her in to the Miami Royal and so on. At other times, I would see them as a middle-aged, rather than older, married couple. Whatever the case may be, I find Joni is sympathetic with them, she treats them affectionately even as she pokes fun at them and others like them. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:07:57 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena (NJC) Jimmy joked: > and here all this time I thought the song was about Otis Campbell (from Andy > Griffith) and Marlene Dietrich where Barney has put Otis in jail to sober up, > and Marlene comes to his rescue singing "......see what the boys in the back > room will have......" > > Sorry for ruining a good thread, but I'm feeling silly this morning : ) That's O.K., Jimmy, I also had a silly thought running through my head last night thinking of Joni updating the song to be about the elderly Cuban grandparents of Gloria Estefan and calling it "Ortiz and Marlena" ;-) Kakki, waiting to be damned to JMDL solitary confinement for starting yet another hair thread ;-o ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:37:25 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) > > > When I was a kid and my mother referred to one side of my family as being > "black Irish", I thought we were part African! well I am! My roots are: english, celt, french, african, moorish, spanish, greek and arabic and irish. If I was a dog, I could only eneter the mongrel classes. > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #481 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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