From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #480 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 27 1999 Volume 04 : Number 480 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Otis and Marlena - a question ["Catherine McKay" ] Otis & Marlena, NJC now [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Writers Contest 1999 [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) [Bounced Message ] hello all. SJC [Bounced Message ] [none] ["David Greenspoon" ] RE: Otis and Marlena ["David Greenspoon" ] Long Hair and an Ear Ache NJC [Siresorrow@aol.com] black babies njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) [catman ] Re: Dreamland. Discuss ["Mark or Travis" ] NJC: Haircuts, Cookbooks & Julian [Julie Webb ] Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Dreamland. Discuss [David Wright ] Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] jonatha, joni, chaka and another offer for the joni's jazz tapes ["patric] Re: Dreamland. Discuss [Dflahm@aol.com] Otis & Marlena [Dflahm@aol.com] No Apologies ["Russell Bowden" ] Re: Otis and Marlena - a question ["Patricia O'Connor" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:03:29 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena - a question Bob says: >I think "O&M" is one of Joni's "snapshot" songs, like Sunny Sunday or >Harlem in Havana, it's sort of a portrait. From my understanding, the >Muslims mention is a reference to actual terrorist activities that >took >place, of course the older couple is oblivious to anything >happening >nationally as they are caught up in their own vacation in >the Sunshine >State...the visual images are so strong it seems like >it's just begging >for an accompanying video. Great idea - you could use Seinfeld's obnoxious uncle whatsisname, or maybe send George Costanza's parents down to Florida to drive everyone crazy! Wouldn't they make an interesting Otis and Marlene? Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:11:17 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Otis & Marlena, NJC now <> Well, I never watched Seinfeld but O&M does remind me of my favorite film, "Midnight Cowboy", and the dream scene where Ratso Rizzo (Dustin Hoffman) imagines himself poolside entertaining all the old ladies, sampling fine cuisine (from Marian's cookbook, no doubt) and otherwise being the hit of the party before it all turns on him... Bob NP: Yes, "Roundabout" -------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:33:19 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Writers Contest 1999 Marcel writes: << I was cruisin the JMDL website and I found the 1998 Writers contest. Is one planned for this year. With Y2k looming it might be a good point in time to consider having one. Marcel Deste. >> I remember this was discussed early in the year and I never heard anything more about it. I really enjoyed all of the entries from 1998, and it would be great if there was another contest. There are so many talented writers on this list ( me excluded ), and if it's too late for this year maybe one could be planned for 2000. First prize could be the locks of hair from Kakki and Mark. :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:08:18 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) From: "Kakki" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:34:28 -0700 Bobasaur wrote: > Or it's possible that they recall that the last record CSNY did was the > beyond-horrid "American Dream"...I couldn't even make it to the end of the > record it was so awful! I've noticed that even the hard core fans on their discussion list seem to consider that one "the unspeakable Horror". The new album was officially released today and has been getting pretty good airplay across the U.S. and in Europe. In some ways it could make some sense for an artist(s) to finance their own album. They have more control and deal with less of the whole "recoupment" and record biz bureaucracy thing. The new one is on the Reprise label, so there is some major record company involvement. Kakki NP: Otis and Marlena ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:04:49 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: hello all. SJC From: "Seth Garrison" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:46:56 CDT howdy everyone~ i haven't checked this e-mail in ages. i had 981 messages. life here is hectic. college decisions/applications are murdering me. hopefully i'll make it through, though. by the way- joni is the subject of my latest college essay. i'm attatching it as a word file in case any of you would like to read it. i would love to get any possible feedback from you enlightened folks. i hope all of you are having wonderful times. i recently got HOSL. i really love 'in france they kiss on mainstreet,' 'the boho dance,' and 'harry's house.' thanks to all of you who recommended this album to me. i'm on my way to getting them all, but it'll take some time. i've been tori amos crazy lately. i've gotten so many bootlegs and rarities that it's taken up most of my musical obsession. that, and i've been practicing frantically for a piano competition coming up next week. peace be with you. i hope to hear back from some of you soon. seth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:34:57 PDT From: "David Greenspoon" Subject: [none] Catherine writes In "Otis and Marlena" Joni's refrain mentions "Muslims holding up Washington". Does anyone know what that means? Was there an incident around that time? Could it be a reference to the OPEC nations and the price of gasoline going up? People heading off to Florida for fun and sun to forget about that kind of stuff? Just wondering... I always though Joni was saying that American society was crumbling and that. Other cultures were taking over. Just my take on the comment ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:36:55 PDT From: "David Greenspoon" Subject: RE: Otis and Marlena Catherine writes In "Otis and Marlena" Joni's refrain mentions "Muslims holding up Washington". Does anyone know what that means? Was there an incident around that time? Could it be a reference to the OPEC nations and the price of gasoline going up? People heading off to Florida for fun and sun to forget about that kind of stuff? Just wondering... I always though Joni was saying that American society was crumbling and American government was neglected. Therefor Other cultures were aking over. Just my take on the lyric yours David P.S. I love Don Juans Reckless Daughter Discussions ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:37:11 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Long Hair and an Ear Ache NJC All the hiar cutting going on makes me feel a day late and dollar short. I'm 38 and started growing my hair out after having it very short since 1984. I like having a little swagger to my hair now. Feels totally cool. Like,,,,get back jack, i've got hair. As for the ear ache, saw a show last night...The Verve Pipe and Collective Soul with my 10 year old son. Very nice evening, but the VP were really loud. Louder than anything I have ever heard. And I had a head ache and ear ace all day. Now, a few beers have helped and I can listen to music again. I lost all desire for music today. Like a hangover of ears, but i never drank last night. On the Verve Pipe, I thought they were excellent, except a lot too loud. They did a lot of metally sounds, but they were tight as a band and the keyboard player had tow drums and cymbals on either side of his keyboard and he was way excellent. Collective Soul was a little dissappointing and i really love their music. But they are so orchestrated in the studio, there was no way they could reproduce live. No strings, no synthesizer, etc. Three guitars, a bass, and drums. But I love guitar bands, but was still disappointed. Lastly, I realize I mixed capitals and lower case letters, something I regret, but I am two beers into a PUI. (posting under the influence). Pat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:41:08 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: black babies njc i forgot to include one of those emoticons in my post about the black babies and the brazilian carnival. just in case... it was joke, ok? wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:30:29 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) My cheque card is also a debit card,can be used either way. When my hair was long I coloured it too but grew increasingly uncomfortable with that-roots are not good, but on a man they are awful! i have been going grey since my middle 20's. It's being half spanish that does it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:30:38 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present I just know you will think I am lying but I am rather like MG and yourself. I hate parties and in acrowd of people I am usually quiet and feel out of it. I don't get drunk tho! Certainly, I would never get involved in discussions the way I have here and wouldn't state my opinion or say I disagreed or anything. Although having said that, this list has made me more confident in real life. I am better on a one to one or when I have audience, like when i go to do my talks. I can stand in front of 100 people and talk for two hours easily, but in a party situation I just am quiet and in the corner. I'd love to go to one of the Jonifests but i doubt i could handle it. The idea terrifies me. I am sure people would expect me to be a loud non stop talker but what they'd get is someone shy who they would think is distant and unfriendly. It wasn't like that when i had the UK people here. First it was my house and although i felt quite sick before they got here, there were only three and I enjoyed it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:30:33 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Dreamland. Discuss > > > 'Black babies covered in baking flour' (is this some paganistic thing going > on?) > > 'Tar Baby' (see above but with a white baby?) I think she is refering to rascism with these . > > > 'Great White Wonder' - why are they talking over a glass of rum? Is it a > Hemingway allusion? > > I don't know who she is but I would like to meet good time Mary, *and* her > fortune hunter! > > And Miss Fortune.... we're not talking a literal Big Game Gun, are we? > > I can see Joni laying on a beach in the Caribbean (or probably Brazil) with > the 'sun on the amazon.com' ;-) thinking about the time of year, and how > different it would be if she were in Canada ('six foot drifts on Myrtle's > lawn')! And a parade goes by.... something akin to a Notting Hill Carnival > with food and floats and samba etc etc etc and she thinks of it's history > going back thru' 'Columbus and Walter Raleigh', all the colonialists and > traders that brought African slaves there eventually - and even later the > 'suntan slaves'. > > She captures some of it's spirit in the demo version. At a guess, she left > it off for reasons like it didn't fit thematically, it was an uplifting > song in an album which really wasn't pointing that way. And it sounds very > different in DJRD because she was seeing a different percussionist at the > time. > > It seems like it should be titled,'Musings on a passing parade' or > something similar. Joni really is the first person to open up the road for > World Music with HOSL. If this was included on it (and we can all come up > with reasons why it wasn't) it would have been another texture to the > Burundi drumming in The Jungle Line. What is it? 'Rousseau walks up trumpet > past/safari to the heart of all that jazz'. But I will leave that one for > another thread. > > I don't really care what Joni means. > It would just be nice to discuss what she might have meant. > > Much Joni > > Jamie Zubairi - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:16:15 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Dreamland. Discuss > "Black babies" are a finger food, meat and/or fruit done up in a roll, then > deep fried. The ingredients are dark (raisins and spices, I think), so they > look like little black "babies" when they are ready to fry. They are a > delicacy, and served on special occasions. > Geez, and I always just thought there were little kids playing in the kitchen while the cook was doing his baking and they got flour all over themselves! I've always thought of 'Dreamland' as a social criticism masquerading as a tropical idyll. Joni, casting herself in the role of world-travelling jet-setter, describes this tropical paradise, showing people with some wealth & questionable status playing around & making fools of themselves. At the same time all around them there is this undercurrent of racial & class tension and resentment among the people who actually live there. Good Time Mary & Miss Fortune are both oblivious to it. Mary is just out to have a good time & Miss Fortune (I love that word play - misfortune/Miss Fortune) just wants to bag a rich husband. I'm not sure what her 'big game gun' is supposed to be literally but I love the image. Raleigh & Columbus give the song the historical context of European Imperialism. They claim these lands that really belong to somebody else for England & Spain . Tar Baby & the Great White Wonder are both derogatory terms that describe how each of the two characters in question really feels about the other. Both are burning on the inside with resentment & hate & contemplating the eventual clash that they are both certain will inevitably come. Wrapping the flag around her & laying down thinking national seems to me to be a sarcastic comment on the attitudes of tourists and the reference to the Marlboro Man is a reference to American attitudes and consumerism. In the end she gives a passing thought to those six foot drifts on Myrtle's lawn & leans back in her seat thinking about African sand on the Trade Winds & the sun on the Amazon with Dreamland coming on...... In other words, for the jet set anyway, there are plenty of sunny warm places to go play and who cares what the natives think or what their lives are like? And who cares about those poor schmucks stuck in freezing cold weather with snow up to their arses? Maybe this one is another expression of Joni's inner conflict over being wealthy. She's travelled the world but doesn't really like to think of herself as being a global tourist who isn't affected by anything that doesn't relate to her own gratification. Just a thought. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:58:44 -0400 From: Julie Webb Subject: NJC: Haircuts, Cookbooks & Julian > And I had a dream about---- almost cutting my hair---it happened just the other day...it was gettin' kinda long... Kakki and Mark, Im sure you two look mahvelous. I've noticed that whenever celebrities "finally" go for the shorter look, my first reaction is disappointment and then I come to the conclusion that they somehow look "fresh"---Meg Ryan, Gwenyth, Graham Nash for instance.. What has long hair come to symbolize for our generation? I realize that this is a > pretty superficial question to ponder, but ya know me... ( I wish Alanis hadn' t cut hers. (Sandra Bullock, Nicole K: please don't..) What aging divas have kept their hair long--- Stevie Nick, Jerry Hall, Lauren Hutton, Patti Smith, Steve Tyler, Joni, Carly, David Crosby, Bonnie Rait and now David Bowie and Madonna.) And Marian, great letter for a cookbook which will surely bring a smile to JM's face. Welcome back Julian and congrats...I always smile when I read > your posts... -Julie Z. Webb, who can't get enough of vintage Stevie Wonder these days......Remember "Joy Inside My Tears?" I've been singing it for years, but what's it really about? Please explain if you can... And tell me if you've ever wondered about the meaning of an old favorite song....(ie...Isn't it odd to find yourself singing with complete abandon (in the shower or in the car,) , but when you stop to think about it----you have no idea what it is you are singing about....) This sounds like a good question for Ashara.... "Joy Inside My Tears" "I've always come to the conclusion that 'but' is the way of asking for permission to lay something heavy on ones head. So I have tried to not be the one who 'll fall into that line, but what I feel inside I think you should know. And baby that's you - you - you Made life's his*to*ry Caue you've brought some joy inside my tears And you have done what no one thought could be, You've brought some joy inside my tears I've alwys felt that tomorrow is for those who are too much afraid to go past yesterday and start living for today. I feel that lasting moments are coming far and few between, So I should tell you of the happiness that you bring Baby, baby it's you - you - you Made life's his*to*ry Oh baby, you've brought some joy inside my tears Baby you have done what no one thought could be You brought some joy inside my tears You brought some joy inside my tears You brought some joy inside my tears You've brought some joy inside my tears Baby, baby you have done what no one thought could be He - y, you brought some joy inside my tears Gotta tell you You - you - you made life's his*to*ry You brought some joy inside my tears - you brought you brought you brought some joy inside my tears Baby baby baby you have done what no one thought could be You brought some joy inside my tears You made it baby you made it baby made it made life's his*to*ry - you you you made life's his*to*ry You brought some joy inside my tears You have done what no one thought could be - No-body ever thought it would be You have done what no one thought could be You you you made life's his*to*ry - Gotta shout about it baby You brought some joy inside my tears You have done what no one thought could be You brought some joy inside my tears You you you made life's his*to*ry You brought some joy inside my tears You brought some joy inside my tears You brought some joy inside my Tears > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:26:04 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) OK since this is a bad or good hair day for some listers, I just had to add my 2 strands of hair to the kettle. I always thought Joni was singing to me in "Just Like This Train" Dreaming of the pleasure I'm going to have Watching your hairline recede My vain darling Now that I'm 43, the vanity is gone along with most of the hair. I've got a nicely shaped head, and no sour grapes here. :-{) Jimmy NP- Joni's Jazz Tapes (Thank You Thank You Jerry!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:42:24 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Dreamland. Discuss On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Mark or Travis wrote: > Maybe this one is another expression of Joni's inner conflict over > being wealthy. Yes...her awareness of her own privilege. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:16:26 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) > OK since this is a bad or good hair day for some listers, I just had to add > my 2 strands of hair to the kettle. I always thought Joni was singing to me > in "Just Like This Train" > > Dreaming of the pleasure I'm going to have > Watching your hairline recede > My vain darling > > Now that I'm 43, the vanity is gone along with most of the hair. > I've got a nicely shaped head, and no sour grapes here. :-{) > > Jimmy Actually a lot of the reason why I finally got mine cut off is that it's really way too fine and getting way too thin to look like much. And having it in the ponytail was starting to hurt my head by the end of the day! When I was in college I wanted to have my hair down to my ass. But I acted in a lot of plays and my parents always complained about it being long so I never got it much past my shoulders. Two or three years ago (I've forgotten how long it's actually been) I decided the hell with it, I'm going for it. I was tempted to give it up more than once but stuck it out long enough for it to get down between my shoulder blades. But whenever I wore it down it just kind of flew around all over the place & I looked like Aqualung. So it's gone now & I'm glad. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:26:27 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena - a question Catherine (in Toronto) asks: << In "Otis and Marlena" Joni's refrain mentions "Muslims holding up Washington". Does anyone know what that means? Was there an incident around that time? Could it be a reference to the OPEC nations and the price of gasoline going up? People heading off to Florida for fun and sun to forget about that kind of stuff? >> I've always thought this song was about a Jewish couple like Mr & Mrs Seinfeld or Fran's mom from The Nanny. But then I've recently wondered if Otis could be the Black man who appears on the DJRD cover. "...while Muslims stick up Washington..." seems to be a reference to the Arab Oil Crunch of the mid-70's which had a lot to do with America's strong support of Israel. O&M is a song I sing to myself a lot. It's among Joni's most humorous, satirical lyrics. E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:28:41 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: jonatha, joni, chaka and another offer for the joni's jazz tapes > >np: Jonatha Brooke Live, in anticipation of her show this Friday night >(where I intend on presenting her with a set of Joni's Jazz tapes) > brian, what a wonderful gift! all joni music, with brilliant chaka too! my set of tapes of this show has been one of the most significant musical gifts of 1999. i'm still dubbing away, but i can offer more copies. email me privately from the us or canada if you are interested. i'll probably cut it off at 5 sets if it gets that far. with the people i've already sent tapes to, i've asked them to take a moment or two to write to me how they feel, hearing this music (some reliving after having attended the original concert.) what a complete joy the responses have been! and this leads back to catherine's thread about what joins us. passion, i think. we care passionately for joni's music, and the woman who creates it. we are passionate about all of the music we choose to listen to, often so much that we have to share it and take the deepest joy in what is shared. we are passionate about the rest of the arts. we are passionate about our issues, sometimes to the point of obnoxiousness (okay, that may be me, but i'm not ashamed). that's what keeps me interested. patrick np - me'shell - bitter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:36:08 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Dreamland. Discuss I think your take on Great White Wonder/Tar Baby is brilliant. D LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:00:39 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Otis & Marlena Your gloss on "Black babies" was very helpful and it's significant to me that, quite possibly, you are the only one of all of us who was aware of the reference. It's just like JM to mislead everyone (well, almost everyone) with a locution that SEEMS so clearly about one thing, but is not. Her COMPLETE freedom with language (especi ally when at the service of her wicked sense of humor) is one of the things that sets her apart as a writer. I think this "Dreamland" discussion is one of the two most fascinating exchanges on JM lyrics I've seen in the seven months I have been with JMDL. (The other was "Don't Interrupt the Sorrow") D LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:14:59 PDT From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: No Apologies Some recent posts regarding this song have really caught my attention. This was my first favorite from TTT. Though I comprehend the overall gist, I am still not getting some of the details in the lyrics. A couple of months ago I mentioned that Juan and Freddy are mentioned in the liner notes on CMIARS...Does this enlighten any listers as to who they are??? Love, Russ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 02:08:02 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena - a question Eric wrote: > I've always thought this song was about a Jewish couple like Mr & Mrs >Seinfeld or Fran's mom from The Nanny. But then I've recently wondered if >Otis could be the Black man who appears on the DJRD cover. In previous discussions of this song over the last couple of years, I have wanted to bring something up but have not because I wasn't sure if I could make myself understood and didn't want to deal with the flames if I was misunderstood...here goes: I have *always*, from my very first listen on the day DJRD was released, heard anti-semitism in this song. Unlike Eric, I didn't picture Otis and Marlena as Jews, I thought of O&M as Joni and Don Alias, I have the strong impression that the guests at Miami Royal are elderly Jews. Why elderly Jews and not simply elderly people of any creed? Because of the consistant duality in Joni's lyrics, (nowhere more evident than on DJRD) I heard the "they" in "They've come for fun and sun" as a play against the Muslims sticking up Washington. So because I interpreted the lyric in that way I also found it to be racist and downright nasty, listen to it that way and you'll see what I mean. That's not to say I dislike the song. Furthermore; last year on a long drive with a childhood friend and fellow Joni fanatic, heading home from our second Joni concert in 2 days, O&M was playing in the car: "Do you think this song is anti-semitic?" I asked, without any explaination of why I was inquiring. "Yes" she said. POC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 02:49:48 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena Patricia O'Connor wrote: << I have *always*, from my very first listen on the day DJRD was released, heard anti-semitism in this song. Unlike Eric, I didn't picture Otis and Marlena as Jews, I thought of O&M as Joni and Don Alias, I have the strong impression that the guests at Miami Royal are elderly Jews. Why elderly Jews and not simply elderly people of any creed? Because of the consistant duality in Joni's lyrics, (nowhere more evident than on DJRD) I heard the "they" in "They've come for fun and sun" as a play against the Muslims sticking up Washington. So because I interpreted the lyric in that way I also found it to be racist and downright nasty, listen to it that way and you'll see what I mean. That's not to say I dislike the song.... >> I don't find anything antisemitic about O&M the same way I don't find anything antisemitic about the humorous Jewish stereotypes portrayed by Seinfeld, The Nanny, Northern Exposure, SNL or Joan Rivers! One of the many things I admire about Jewish people is their sense of humor & ability to poke fun at themselves (something we Irish should take a lesson from). Joni is certainly not being nasty or racist in her caricature of Otis & Marlina. Rather she paints two adorable characters I have grown to love more & more over the years. E.T. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #480 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?