From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #479 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 26 1999 Volume 04 : Number 479 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) ["Kakki" ] RE: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present ["Wally Kairuz" ] (NJC) new email address [Robert Holliston ] Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present [MGVal@aol.com] Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Urge For Going [Susan McNamara ] Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) [catman ] Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Otis and Marlena - a question ["Catherine McKay" ] You know you're from Canada... (NJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Otis and Marlena - a question [Jamie Zubairi ] Re: Otis and Marlena - a question [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Urge For Going ["P. Henry" ] Re: Otis and Marlena - a question [Don Rowe ] Re: Dreamland. Discuss ["Patricia O'Connor" ] RE: Dreamland. Discuss ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Dreamland. Discuss ["Wally Kairuz" ] Don Alias' Percussion Superstars [Chris Marshall ] Today in Joni History - October 27 [Today in Joni History ] CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Dreamland. Discuss [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present [Brian Gross ] RE: Dreamland. Discuss ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) ["Kakki" ] Writers Contest 1999 [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Dreamland. Discuss ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) [Don Rowe ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:38:12 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) Don't know what is in the air, but I and none other than our Mark in Seattle, another well-known, long-tressed JMDL'er, had the sudden urge for shearing our trademark locks at the same time this past week. Wearing a long pelt in the latest long heat wave here had some influence on me and I think the recent allusions to resembling a young Sean Connery may have influenced Mr. Scott (I just saw some of his "after" photo scans and indeed he is ready for GQ magazine and an agent ;-) I just look more like my "internal age" of 16. Mark wins - beat me by a length of about 6 inches ;-) Kakki, going to shampoo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:31:34 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) ahem...kakki, just what exactly do you mean?!?!?!? wallyk> > Mark wins - beat me by a length of about 6 inches ;-) > > Kakki, going to shampoo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:41:19 CEST From: "Marian Russell" Subject: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present Dear All - Just a quick note to let you know that I sent, via UPS, the cookbook to Joni's managers last week and found out through UPS tracking on the web that it was delivered yesterday. I gift-wrapped the book in paper with motifs of music of Mozart and Haydn and used a beautiful ribbon with gold thread in it. I have photographs of the book before and after wrapping which I hope to scan and put into www.jmdl.com in the next week. This is the letter I composed to Joni on behalf of JMDL: +++++++++++++ Dear Joni, This book is a collection of recipes from some of your fans who belong to the Joni Mitchell Discussion List hosted on the Internet by Les Irvin at http://www.jmdl.com. We come from all over the world and have many different interests as you will see in the bios which follow the recipes. One thing that is very amazing to all of us is the instant common ground that exists among those who love your music - coming together has been like finding long lost friends and family... the tribe of Joan! We hope you will find our book entertaining and that you will enjoy the recipes. We wish you much love, continued inspiration, and many more birthdays to come! on behalf of the JMDL community, Marian Russell ++++++++ I hope this letter is okay with everyone. Let's keep our fingers crossed that, if not exactly in time for her birthday, she will someday receive the package! Michael Paz's wife is a graphic artist and will be adding graphics to the book and reformatting it for printing for eventual sale as a fundraiser for Wally. It should be completed and available next year sometime. Marian Vienna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:52:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present marian! what a sweet and thoughtful letter. i know all of us would like to thank you for this labor of love. i keep listening to your set at ashara's, and it never fails to astonish me. joni should be proud to have such a fan as you. wallyk > This is the letter I composed to Joni on > behalf of JMDL: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:43:01 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present > Just a quick note to let you know that I sent, via UPS, the cookbook to > Joni's managers last week and found out through UPS tracking on the web that > it was delivered yesterday. YAAAY, Marian! I'm so glad to hear this! Your letter is just perfect and I can't wait until we can order the fundraiser copy. Thank you again for all your caring work on putting this together. I hope she's so happy with it she invites you over for dinner ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 02:40:46 -0700 From: Robert Holliston Subject: (NJC) new email address Hey y'all, Just to let my JMDL friends know that I have a new email address: rhollis@home.com I've exchanged my phone modem for a kick-ass cable one - yee-hah!! Roberto, proud owner of an original Kakki martini glass!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:07:22 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present In a message dated 10/26/99 12:43:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, marian8888@hotmail.com writes: << This is the letter I composed to Joni on behalf of JMDL: >> Wow! What a great letter! You did a beautiful job, Marian. Wonderful, wonderful writing! I think that you hit the nail right on the head with this: ">>>One thing that is very amazing to all of us is the instant common ground that exists among those who love your music - coming together has been like finding long lost friends and family... the tribe of Joan! >>>> I am always amazed at the strong foothold that list members have in my heart. People that I never would have met any other way except for the jmdl have become as necessary to my life as breathing. As a person who is normally shy and reserved and solitary, the list has certainly allowed me to stretch and expand my more social side since it easily provides me with that common ground. MG - counting my blessings this morning ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:14:30 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present Marian, The letter is perfect! Thanks for seeing this project through- I can't wait to purchase a copy myself. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:15:13 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) Ok, so..who was more nervous- Kakki or Mark? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 06:44:32 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) > Ok, so..who was more nervous- Kakki or Mark? > > Terry > I don't know about Kakki but I had to walk around the block until there was a barber available 'cause I was afraid I'd lose my nerve if I had to sit & wait for very long. When I finally did go in they only accepted cash or a check so I had to run to an ATM. Even though my bank was just one more block away I ran to one that was closer, surcharges be damned. Again I was afraid I'd lose my nerve. I had debated with myself about doing this for quite awhile before I finally decided to do it. I guess you could say I was pretty nervous. But the barber shop was run by two *very* nice men (easy on the eyes and friendly too, if you catch my drift) who put me at ease and were very complimentary of the result. I had it done on my lunch last Friday so when I went back to work I created a bit of a sensation. Ok, that's enough about me. Your turn, Kakki. Pony-tail-less Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:14:50 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) Mark said: "When I finally did go in they only accepted cash or a check so I had to run to an ATM." I am really surprised they would take a check (or cheque as we say up here in the great white north). No one around here wants to take a cheque these days unless you've got 50 other pieces of ID to present (one of which is usually a credit card, figure that out...) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:21:09 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Urge For Going hi gang, in our continuing quest for the historical accuracy of all things Joni, I happen to look at the jmdl guitar site this evening when someone told me they didn't like playing this song. as I mentioned before, contrary to the popular belief that this is the only JM song written in standard tuning, this is not exactly true... yes it is played in standard... with a drop D. (low E tuned down to D) furthermore, the tab posted on the site is almost entirely wrong... so, as someone who learned the song firsthand, I just wanted to share it with you all so maybe some of you musicians out there could actually enjoy playing the real thing for a change. here goes: this is what's posted on the guitar site: "A(2) G6+9 A(2) I awoke today and found the frost perched on the town A(2) A G6+9 A(2) It hovered in a frozen sky and it gobbled summer down D C When the sun turns traitor cold D C E E5addD/B And all the trees are shivering in a naked row A G A(2) I get the urge for going but I never seem to go CHORUS #1: G D A G D And I get the urge for going, when the meadow grass is A turning brown G D A A G A Summertime is falling down and winter's closing in" ...and this is how Joni played it: Amaj7 Gmaj7 Amaj7 I awoke today and found the frost perched on the town Amaj7 Gmaj7 Amaj7 It hovered in a frozen sky and it gobbled summer down C D When the sun turns traitor cold C D E (*see note) And all the trees are shivering in a naked row Amaj7 Gmaj7 Amaj7 I get the urge for going but I never seem to go CHORUS: C D Amaj7 C D And I get the urge for going, when the meadow grass is Amaj7 turning brown C D Amaj7 Amaj7 Gmaj7 Amaj7 Summertime is falling down and winter's closing in (note:*then add d then add f then pull off) (also, what I'm referring to here as an 'Amaj7 & Gmaj7' is a 3-finger Fmaj7 position moved up to 5 & 3, respectively... hope that's clear enough) pat NP - what else?! http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:47:00 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Urge For Going Hi Pat: So your version as Joni played it is drop D no capo? Just verifying. Would you like me to add this to the site? It looks good to me! (although I don't have my guitar here at work! :-) Thanks! Sue > >...and this is how Joni played it: > >Amaj7 Gmaj7 Amaj7 >I awoke today and found the frost perched on the town >Amaj7 Gmaj7 Amaj7 >It hovered in a frozen sky and it gobbled summer down > C D >When the sun turns traitor cold > C D E (*see note) >And all the trees are shivering in a naked row > Amaj7 Gmaj7 Amaj7 >I get the urge for going but I never seem to go > >CHORUS: > C D Amaj7 C D >And I get the urge for going, when the meadow grass is >Amaj7 >turning brown >C D Amaj7 Amaj7 Gmaj7 Amaj7 >Summertime is falling down and winter's closing in > >(note:*then add d then add f then pull off) (also, what I'm referring to >here as an 'Amaj7 & Gmaj7' is a 3-finger Fmaj7 position moved up to 5 & 3, >respectively... hope that's clear enough) > >pat > > >NP - what else?! > >http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html > > >Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ weekend email address: suemc16@webtv.net "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:55:51 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) here we have what is called a cheque guarantee card. It is like a credit card with a number on it etc and signature. Theis matches up with the deatils and sig on the cheque. they gurantee amounts of 50, 100 or 250 pounds. As for hair-well i cutt off my long hair last year. From well below my shoulders to a no 1 cut! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:57:19 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Dulcimer music for "All I Want" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:16:34 +0100 From: souzoukakia Julian wrote: >Secondly, I've just bought myself a dulcimer and have learned all of the >"Hits" and "Misses" tunes and am desperate to (A) Find the music to "All >I Want" I wrote out the dulcimer chords for All I Want a while back. They are available from the guitar section of Les' site: http://www.jmdl.com/guitar (click on the cover of the "Blue" album). I've only ever "faked" the dulcimer part on guitar by doing strange things to the strings, so I'd love to hear from any dulcimer owners as to how it sounds on the real thing! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:16:24 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present MG says: >As a person who is normally shy and reserved and solitary, the list >has >certainly allowed me to stretch and expand my more social side >since it >easily provides me with that common ground. > >MG - counting my blessings this morning You know what? Me too. I know I may come across as a big-mouth, opinionated jerk sometimes (and maybe I am), and I often regret some of the cracks I make on-line (when it's too late to get them back) but I swear to God, if I'm ever at a party or a gathering of any kind, I can usually be found in a corner gabbing to the one or two people I know. I cannot make small talk, I hate social situations and I usually have very little in common with people at some of the yukky social events I am forced to attend. I often end up drinking a bit too much to compensate for that (never enough to get drunk and never often enough to qualify me as an alcoholic). I just cannot stand around at parties talking about silverware patterns or private schools or the stock market. I can honestly say in my short time on this list, that I find it easier to talk to people (in general) than I ever used to and I think this list has a lot to do with it. Here are people who are open and honest, who don't always agree, who sometimes get angry or frustrated, who are often extremely funny, witty, poetic, loving, sympathetic, but who feel things very deeply and who have this common bond of love for the music and words of Joni Mitchell. I find that fascinating. It's almost as if, having professed one's love of Joni's music, there is nothing more that needs be said, at least for a time - there is instant understanding and a deep intake of breath: "Ahh, a soulmate." Then you can feel free to just be quiet and think about it for a while. Then after that, you can say whatever you want, things you may have been afraid to say to anyone ever before and guess what? Somebody else feels that way too! (And I've been seeing a shrink for how many years now?) Sometimes I think over a message I've sent out to the list and I think, Oh God, why did I say that? I spoke too quickly, I didn't think before I opened my big mouth (in a manner of speaking) and everyone's going to think I'm this horrible person, this opinionated swine with a holier-than-thou attitude. And guess what? They don't - or if they disagree, they do it in a way that is not hurtful. Or they elaborate on something I've said and make it better. And so it goes. MG, I feel blessed too. What a great bunch of people. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:31:53 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Dreamland. Discuss Dear list... I have had sleepless nights about Dreamland. I love both versions, the demo for it's spirit, the DJRD for it's production (listen to it with headphones on!). BUT! There are some things I don't understand. Could somebody please enlighten me on these: 'Black babies covered in baking flour' (is this some paganistic thing going on?) 'Tar Baby' (see above but with a white baby?) 'Great White Wonder' - why are they talking over a glass of rum? Is it a Hemingway allusion? I don't know who she is but I would like to meet good time Mary, *and* her fortune hunter! And Miss Fortune.... we're not talking a literal Big Game Gun, are we? I can see Joni laying on a beach in the Caribbean (or probably Brazil) with the 'sun on the amazon.com' ;-) thinking about the time of year, and how different it would be if she were in Canada ('six foot drifts on Myrtle's lawn')! And a parade goes by.... something akin to a Notting Hill Carnival with food and floats and samba etc etc etc and she thinks of it's history going back thru' 'Columbus and Walter Raleigh', all the colonialists and traders that brought African slaves there eventually - and even later the 'suntan slaves'. She captures some of it's spirit in the demo version. At a guess, she left it off for reasons like it didn't fit thematically, it was an uplifting song in an album which really wasn't pointing that way. And it sounds very different in DJRD because she was seeing a different percussionist at the time. It seems like it should be titled,'Musings on a passing parade' or something similar. Joni really is the first person to open up the road for World Music with HOSL. If this was included on it (and we can all come up with reasons why it wasn't) it would have been another texture to the Burundi drumming in The Jungle Line. What is it? 'Rousseau walks up trumpet past/safari to the heart of all that jazz'. But I will leave that one for another thread. I don't really care what Joni means. It would just be nice to discuss what she might have meant. Much Joni Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:44:58 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) >here we have what is called a cheque guarantee card. It is like a credit >card >with a number on it etc and signature. Theis matches up with the deatils >and sig >on the cheque. they gurantee amounts of 50, 100 or 250 pounds. > Sounds similar to a debit card, another nefarious plot by the banks to make our lives easier (because you don't need to carry cash around) and yet more difficult (because it's tooo easy to spend money). >As for hair-well i cutt off my long hair last year. From well below my >shoulders >to a no 1 cut! As for hair, I keep growing it, then cutting it, then growing it, then cutting it again. With all the grey I've got now, colouring it becomes a pain, but I'm not ready to let Mother Nature take her course. I do love the pampering of getting a hair cut - as long as it's not the Anne Boleyn cut! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:51:59 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Dreamland. Discuss This is the only one I dare comment on because I'm as baffled as you are: >why are they talking over a glass of rum? Is it a Hemingway allusion? > I just take it as the fact that when you go to the Caribbean, anywhere, the drinks are all rum-based - all those yukky pina coladas, rums-'n-cokes and various other grotesque concoctions with a rum base. I mean, the minute you step off a plane, they're shoving some rum thingy in your hand. (Can you tell I don't like rum?) I wondered about the "black babies covered in baking flour". I was wondering whether this might be a way to protect babies against sunburn? or insect stings? Or maybe she's not talking about real babies at all - maybe it's like jelly babies? Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:57:21 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Otis and Marlena - a question In "Otis and Marlena" Joni's refrain mentions "Muslims holding up Washington". Does anyone know what that means? Was there an incident around that time? Could it be a reference to the OPEC nations and the price of gasoline going up? People heading off to Florida for fun and sun to forget about that kind of stuff? Just wondering... Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:01:31 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: You know you're from Canada... (NJC) Only a little JC - I thought of "6-foot drifts on Myrtle's lawn" when I read this. Canadians will get it, as will many Americans (in the northern parts anyway). If anyone doesn't get anything and is burning to know, I'll be happy to translate: You know you're from Canada when... 1. You only know three spices: salt, pepper and ketchup. 2. You design your Halloween costume to fit over a snowsuit. 3. The mosquitoes have landing lights. 4. You have more miles on your snow blower than your car. 5. You have 10 favorite recipes for moose meat. 6. Canadian Tire on any Saturday is busier than the toy stores at Christmas. 7. You live in a house that has no front step, yet the door is one meter above the ground. 8. You've taken your kids trick-or-treating in a blizzard. 9. Driving is better in the winter because the potholes are filled in with snow. 10. You think sexy lingerie is tube-socks and a flannel nightie with only 8 buttons. 11. You owe more money on your snowmobile than your car. 12. The local paper covers national and international headlines on 2 pages, but requires 6 pages for hockey. 13. At least twice a year, the kitchen doubles as a meat processing plant. 14. The most effective mosquito repellent is a shotgun. 15. Your snow blower gets stuck on the roof. 16. You think the start of deer season is a national holiday. 17. You head south to go to your cottage. 18. You frequently clean grease off your barbecue so the bears won't prowl on your deck. 19. You know which leaves make good toilet paper. 20. The major parish fund-raiser isn't bingo - it's sausage making. 21. You find -40C a little chilly. 22. The trunk of your car doubles as a deep freeze. 23. You attend a formal event in your best clothes, your finest jewelry -- and your Sorels. 24. You can play road hockey on skates. 25. You know 4 seasons: Winter, Still Winter, almost Winter and Construction. 26. The municipality buys a Zamboni before a bus. 27. You understand the Labatt Blue commercials 28. You perk up when you hear the theme from "Hockey Night in Canada" 29. You actually get these jokes and forward them to all your Canadian friends. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:03:47 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: FW: advertising mistakes >The Dairy Association's huge success with the campaign "Got Milk?" >prompted them to expand advertising to Mexico. It was soon brought >to >their attention the Spanish translation read "Are you lactating?" > >Coors put its slogan, "Turn it loose," into Spanish, where it was >read >as "Suffer from diarrhoea". > >Clairol introduced the "Mist Stick", a curling iron, into German >only >to find out that "mist" is slang for manure. Not too many people >had >use for the manure stick. > >When Gerber started selling baby food in Africa, they used the same >packaging as in the US, with the smiling baby on the label. Later >they >learned that in Africa, companies routinely put pictures on the >label of >what's inside, since many people can't read. > >Colgate introduced a toothpaste in France called Cue, the name of a >notorious porno magazine. > >An American T-shirt maker in Miami printed shirts for the Spanish >market which promoted the Pope's visit. Instead of "I saw the Pope" >(el >Papa), the shirts read "I saw the potato" (la papa). > >Pepsi's "Come alive with the Pepsi Generation" translated into >"Pepsi >brings your ancestors back from the grave", in Chinese. > >The Coca-Cola name in China was first read as "Ke-kou-ke-la", >meaning >"Bite the wax tadpole" or "female horse stuffed with wax", >depending on >the dialect. Coke then researched 40,000 characters to find a >phonetic >equivalent "ko-kou-ko-le", translating into "happiness in the >mouth". > >Vauxhall/GM Nova which in Spain means 'doesn't go'. Hence they changed the >name to Corsa. > >and my personal favorite ... > >Frank Perdue's chicken slogan, "it takes a strong man to make a >tender >chicken" was translated into Spanish as "it takes an aroused man to >make a chicken affectionate". > > > > > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DISCLAIMER ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >This E-mail is private and confidential and may be covered by >legal professional privilege. It is therefore only intended for >the addressee(s). If you are not one of those persons you must >not read, copy, store, disclose, use or distribute its contents. >Please also contact the sender immediately and delete the original. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:07:19 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: Otis and Marlena - a question Dear Catherine Apparently there was! mark Domyancich sent me some info regarding it as there was a thread about it last year. Muslims did actually stick up Washington. As a Muslim (not so devout) I found this juxtaposition pointed and appropriate. In "Otis and Marlena" Joni's refrain mentions "Muslims holding up Washington". Does anyone know what that means? Was there an incident around that time? Could it be a reference to the OPEC nations and the price of gasoline going up? People heading off to Florida for fun and sun to forget about that kind of stuff? The fact that people can sit in the sun and have plastic surgery while all over the world there are tragedies occuring. Much Joni Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:09:57 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: Dreamland. Discuss Catherine wrote I wondered about the "black babies covered in baking flour". I was wondering whether this might be a way to protect babies against sunburn? or insect stings? Or maybe she's not talking about real babies at all - maybe it's like jelly babies? I thought it was some sort of food. Y'know, like devils on horsebacks, black babies could be some sort of black bean and yam based loaf. I dunno. Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:07:28 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena - a question <> I think "O&M" is one of Joni's "snapshot" songs, like Sunny Sunday or Harlem in Havana, it's sort of a portrait. From my understanding, the Muslims mention is a reference to actual terrorist activities that took place, of course the older couple is oblivious to anything happening nationally as they are caught up in their own vacation in the Sunshine State...the visual images are so strong it seems like it's just begging for an accompanying video. Bob NP: XTC, "Love at First Sight" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:11:47 -0800 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Urge For Going regarding my recent post about the version posted on JMDL, I want to apologize, especially to the person who put their work into working out those chords and posting them for us... I said "the tab posted on the site is almost entirely wrong" I misspoke... I should have said: "it's different from Joni's version" I'm sorry pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:17:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena - a question - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > In "Otis and Marlena" Joni's refrain mentions > "Muslims holding up > Washington". > Considering when the album was released, I always thought the line was a reference to the Iran Hostage Crisis myself ... not that there's anything else in the song to support this notion. Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:22:11 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: Dreamland. Discuss >There are some things I don't understand. Could somebody please enlighten >me on these: > >'Black babies covered in baking flour' (is this some paganistic thing going >on?) In Jamaica children's play-clothes were often made from cotton flour-sacking. I doubt whether this is done any longer, (the flour is probably shipped in plastic) but I know it was the case as recently as 20 years ago. >'Tar Baby' (see above but with a white baby?) Tar Baby is slang for a black person, IMO an impolite and racist term. >'Great White Wonder' - why are they talking over a glass of rum? Is it a >Hemingway allusion? I read this as a powerful white person, I interpret the Great White Wonder as Joni(sarcastically self-named), and Tar Baby as her romantic interest. Rum is what one drinks in the West Indies, with the occassional Red Stripe thrown in. But the best lines from dreamland have got to be: Walter Raleigh and Chris Columbus Come marching out of the waves To claim the beach and all concessions In the name of the sun-tan slaves It's kinda like a Jaded Big Yellow Taxi. POC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:27:10 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Dreamland. Discuss "Black babies" are a finger food, meat and/or fruit done up in a roll, then deep fried. The ingredients are dark (raisins and spices, I think), so they look like little black "babies" when they are ready to fry. They are a delicacy, and served on special occasions. Of course, the black babies are covered in baking flour before they are prepared. And the cook would probably have a "carnival song" to sing for the occasion as he makes them. One of my favorite Joni songs, I never thought of "Dreamland" as a musing at all. It seems very real and alive -- a vivid personal experience. It sounds to me as if she is attending some kind of festival or party, possibly a Carnival. And from the allusions, I would say she's a little caught up in the "spirit" of things. Meanwhile, up north, the hawk is howling and the snow is falling -- and she's drinking rum in Dreamland. The Caribbean delivers that kind of feeling. It's as if you're in some kind of living dream. My few cents, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:37:21 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Dreamland. Discuss it's very brazilian thing that kids do in carnival, especially in northeast brazil. wallyk - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Jamie Zubairi Para: 'Joni List' Enviado: Martes 26 de Octubre de 1999 13:31 Asunto: Dreamland. Discuss > BUT! > > There are some things I don't understand. Could somebody please enlighten > me on these: > > 'Black babies covered in baking flour' (is this some paganistic thing going > on?) > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:41:02 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Dreamland. Discuss oh sh-t!!!! i'm dying to get into the dreamland/djrd discussion but i've got to go to work. please wait for me until tonight [about 10 hours from now]. wallyk, np: myself people's party's, the jonifest grand set [i think i rocked on twisted] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:52:39 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Don Alias' Percussion Superstars Dear all, Not sure if I should have captioned this NJC, I think not. Anyway. Don Alias (from Shadows And Light, and others? I forget) is coming to Cambridge UK with a bunch other musicians, including Michael and Randy Brecker. The blurb says:- "Don Alias is one of Jazz's true drumming greats. His list of collaborations reads like a who's-who of the musical genre, including the likes of Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, Weather Report, Nina Simone, Charles Mingus, Mick Jagger, Joni Mitchell, Pat Metheney ... and that's just for starters!" "For this unique 'superstar' collaboration, Alias has put together a truly astonishing band featuring some of the finest exponents from the Afro-Cuban and Brazillian music scene, and two international superstars of sax and trumpet! Featuring brand new compositions, this will be a one-off fantastic live experience." The band is:- Michael Brecker Sax Randy Brecker Trumpet Don Alias Drums & Percussion Steve Berrios Percussion Alex Acuna Percussion Giovanni Hidalgo Percussion Gene Perla Bass Denilo Perez Piano Mitch Stein Guitar I plan to book tickets for this *very* soon -- I wanna be at the *front*. Date: 22nd January 2000 (oooh, scary), time 7.30 pm. Ticket prices are ?14.50 and ?12.00 (students ?7.50) If anyone in the UK (or any travellers!) wanna go - shout and I can have a go at booking us a block of seats (for I suspect it'll be seated, even in front of the stage.) I would like to book by Friday, the 29th, so skates on folks! If you decide to book independantly, the Cambridge Corn Exchange box office is on +44 (0) 1223 357 851. Hope to see some of you there -- I think this'll be a treat. Happy October, - --Chris Chris Marshall Secure Systems Integration Ltd Web: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 7970 459 553 Fax: +44 (0) 1954 201 741 E-mail: chris@secure-si.co.uk PGP key: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/chris/pubkey.txt Fingerprint: 49F7 5132 C599 6ADC 47E7 844E A612 3F53 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:04:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - October 27 1987: Tonight, Joni performs at the "Cowboys for Indians and Justice for Leonard Peltier" benefit in front of an estimated 9,000 people at the Pacific Amphitheatre in Costa Mesa, California. The Los Angeles Times printed a review of the show, saying "Joni Mitchell, supported by a jazz-accented band including saxophonist Wayne Shorter and bassist Larry Klein, followed with a 40-minute set that reinforced her reputation as a daring, independent-minded songwriter and singer. Rather than lean toward her most melodic and best-known early work, she concentrated on recent material, previewing a song ("Lakota") from her upcoming album and offering a dramatic rendition of "Tax Free." The latter tune, from her 1985 "Dog Eat Dog" LP, rips at rightist televangelism with uncompromising ridicule and fury." Read the article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/latimes871030.htm 1994: Today's New York Daily News continues the promotion of Turbulent Indigo, publishing an article that reads "These days, Mitchell's frustration with the business surrounds its emphasis on youth. Still, that won't stop Mitchell's ambition. She enthuses about new synthetic orchestrations for her guitar, about finding fresh ways to integrate classical music and African rhythms. Won't such steps invite more criticism of her ambition, as it did with her 1979 jazz LP, "Mingus"? "So what?" Mitchell retorts, triumphant in anger. "To follow an idea through - in the end, that's what counts." Read it at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/nydn941027.htm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:14:21 -0400 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) Heard an interview with Crosby, Stills and Young last Saturday on Billy Bragg's BBC Radio 2 Show. I was surprised to hear that they had had to finance their new album themselves. Steven said that the people at their record company had all changed since they were originally signed and weren't really interested in them any more. Neil said that the last thing a record company wants these days is for an artist to have longevity - it is much easier for them to negotiate a deal with a new 'disposable' artist. He said "It's like Bic bands - you just use them up and throw them away!!" Whilst I know this is happening all the time, I still find it amazing that they would 'pass' on a band as well established as CSN&Y. For those on the list with tickets, you'll be pleased to hear that they were confident that Graham Nash will be fully fit for the start of the tour. Crosby did a good imitation of an English accent saying that Graham was making light of his injuries, telling everyone "it's only a flesh wound, dontcha know!". He said the main problem was keeping him lying down with his feet up in the air but that he wasn't in any serious pain and everything seemed to be healing up well. PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:05:42 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Dreamland. Discuss In a message dated 10/26/99 1:14:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << This is the only one I dare comment on because I'm as baffled as you are: >why are they talking over a glass of rum? Is it a Hemingway allusion? > I just take it as the fact that when you go to the Caribbean, anywhere, the drinks are all rum-based - all those yukky pina coladas, rums-'n-cokes and various other grotesque concoctions with a rum base. I mean, the minute you step off a plane, they're shoving some rum thingy in your hand. (Can you tell I don't like rum?) >> From the James Taylor song, "Capt. Jim's Drunken Dream": "I know that your Yankee whiskey has taken away my mind. And that rum is the only drink suitable to mankind." Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:10:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > MG, I feel blessed too. I'll second that, in a BIG way. xoxox ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:28:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: You know you're from Canada... (NJC) - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > You know you're from Canada when... > 14. The most effective mosquito repellent is a shotgun. Maybe that's what happenned at Ashara's! The Canadian mosquito contingent of the JMDL came over the border to party, too! And remember, November 7th is coming up, all you lurkers out there Be brief, be wordy, it doesn't matter. Just be here and share with us. It's YOUR day. Take care, Brian np: Jonatha Brooke Live, in anticipation of her show this Friday night (where I intend on presenting her with a set of Joni's Jazz tapes) ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:33:35 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) Paul said: >Heard an interview with Crosby, Stills and Young last Saturday >on Billy Bragg's BBC Radio 2 Show. I was surprised to hear >that they had had to finance their new album themselves. >Steven said that the people at their record company had all >changed since they were originally signed and weren't really >interested in them any more. Sign o' the times. Most of the record producers are probably under 30 and have never heard of CSNY apart from their being a bunch of overweight old farts who were popular way back when their parents were young (as if!) and dinosaurs roamed the still-cooling surface of the earth. It wouldn't occur to them that there are similar old farts out there (out here in jmdl-land for example) who might actually want to hear their stuff - the old stuff for nostalgia, the new stuff just because. Some of us old farts do listen to people under 30 as well, as young'uns listen to Joni et al, so these guys underestimate us masses. >Neil said that the last thing a record company wants these days >is for an artist to have longevity - it is much easier for them to >negotiate a deal with a new 'disposable' artist. He said >"It's like Bic bands - you just use them up and throw them away!!" > >Whilst I know this is happening all the time, I still find it amazing that >they would 'pass' on a band as well established as CSN&Y. It's probably like any other star these days, in sports, the movies or whatever - once they become big, the price goes up, and the profit-margin goes down. They're trading on the fickleness of today's short-attention-spanned, multi-tasking, youth-driven-but-baby-boomer-burdened consumers. I think they're making a big mistake. Today's kids are going to grow up too and they are going to reject the cavalier attitude of the short-sighted businessman (hey look! a bit of JC!). I seriously hope so. T'ings has got to change, lad! >For those on the list with tickets, you'll be pleased to hear that they >were >confident that Graham Nash will be fully fit for the start of the tour. >Crosby did a good imitation of an English accent saying that Graham >was making light of his injuries, telling everyone "it's only a flesh >wound, >dontcha know!". He's been watching those Monty Python reruns again. Anyway, he can always show up in the wheelchair. If Michael Jackson can do it... (I can't believe I said that!) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:40:12 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Dreamland. Discuss Wally "dying to get into the dreamland/djrd discussion but i've got to go to work" K asks: "please wait for me until tonight [about 10 hours from now]." For you, Wally, we will wait. There is no too late as far as I'm concerned. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:41:54 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) The Cathesaurus says: <> Or it's possible that they recall that the last record CSNY did was the beyond-horrid "American Dream"...I couldn't even make it to the end of the record it was so awful! The Bobasaur NP: Yes, "Close to the Edge" (III I Get Up I Get Down) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:22:19 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Almost (Did) Cut Our Hair (absolutely NJC) > Ok, that's enough about me. Your turn, Kakki. Sounds like you did it cold turkey, Mark. In my case, family and friends finally resorted to a group intervention and delivered me to a gentle stylist at a posh salon who had been warned in advance of working on a hard case. It's not radically different - just sort of feels like the bottom half of my hair has been "erased".;-) Kakki NP: Paprika Plains (Don't think this one could or should ever be redone) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:53:33 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Writers Contest 1999 I was cruisin the JMDL website and I found the 1998 Writers contest. Is one planned for this year. With Y2k looming it might be a good point in time to consider having one. Marcel Deste. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:53:48 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Dreamland. Discuss Patricia said: >Tar Baby is slang for a black person, IMO an impolite and racist >term. >>'Great White Wonder' - why are they talking over a glass of rum? Is >>it a >>Hemingway allusion? >I read this as a powerful white person, I interpret the Great White >Wonder >as Joni(sarcastically self-named), and Tar Baby as her >romantic interest. That reminds me of a book I read quite a while ago, so long ago that I can't really remember the storyline much. It was called "Tar Baby" and I think it was by Toni Morrison. There's a rich white older couple with a big house on some tropical island. The story deals with the love/hate relationship between their black servants and these white people. Your mention of the Great White Wonder as Joni being sarcastic brings this story to mind. >But the best lines from dreamland have got to be: >Walter Raleigh and Chris Columbus >Come marching out of the waves >To claim the beach and all concessions >In the name of the sun-tan slaves > >It's kinda like a Jaded Big Yellow Taxi. These ARE great lines - as if the whole point of these people arriving to conquer these islands were so that rich white people could have somewhere to go in winter to lie on the beach and get a tan, and the hell with everyone else. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:05:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: CSN&Y and "Bic Bands" (NJC) Don't feel too bad Jurrasic Jimdles -- my lovely wife's response to the news of the latest CSN&Y tour was: "THOSE guys?!? Man, the grandkids must need college tuition." Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #479 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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