From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #467 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, October 18 1999 Volume 04 : Number 467 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: in defense of lawyers (sort of).... NJC ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: in way of proof... ["Kakki" ] Re: Earthquake and ireneNJC ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Millenium countdown to be six degree'd (NJC yet) ["Helen M. Adcock" <] Re: NJC Song-writing JMDLer, For Bob ["Eric Taylor" ] RE: being joni for halloween [Jamie Zubairi ] Joan Baez in London (NJC) [Jamie Zubairi ] A bit of Trivia [Jamie Zubairi ] HOSL Demo [Jamie Zubairi ] Re: NJC Millenium countdown to be six degree'd [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] NJC Jesse [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] NJC (lyrics & hatred) [Janene Otten ] Re: in way of proof... ["P. Henry" ] NJC Six Degrees [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] RE: songwriting JMDLers? [Don Rowe ] Re: Earthquake and ireneNJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Today in Joni History - October 17 [Today in Joni History ] Re: Kennedy Does "Urge For Going" [Susan McNamara ] re: songwriting JMDLers? ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Millenium countdown... NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Joni shopping bliss ["Paul Castle" ] English Weather (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: i gave up on... NJC [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: songwriting JMDLers? [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: songwriting JMDLers? ["Bill Dollinger" ] Tape Tree 7a [Bounced Message ] Re:re: Joni in the check-out line ["Lori REASON"] Dulcimers [Steve Dulson ] Re: Tac caT *NJC* ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: re: songwriting JMDLers? ["Takats, Angela" ] RE: songwriting JMDLers? (NJ) ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: HOSL Demo ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC Six Degrees ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: songwriting JMDLers? [Bounced Message ] Re: HOSL Demo [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: songwriting JMDLers? ["Kakki" ] Re: (NJC) Matthew Shepard ["Catherine McKay" ] re: songwriting JMDLer's ["Ray & Cathy" ] Re: (NJC) Matthew Shepard [catman ] RE: in defense of lawyers (sort of).... ["Brett Code" ] Re: HOSL Demo [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: HOSL Demo [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: NJC Jesse ["Eric Taylor" ] RE: songwriting JMDLers?-- longish -- njc ["Wally Kairuz" Subject: Re: in defense of lawyers (sort of).... NJC I agree with Marcel: << Lawyers are no different than any other factor in society. they are invaluable and do much good. >> My philosophy is: Everyone is capable of good & evil. Good is a daydream & evil, a nightmare. Someday Black & White will wed, birthing a rainbow.... To all "mutts of the planet," E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:57:10 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: English weather (NJC) The only time I have white Xmas' was when i lived in Gern=many in the early and late 60's. Then i had 10 years in Singapore and Australia where Xmas was HOT. Have not had a White Xmas here in the UK, at least not down south. Re Davids comments-last winter was very mild for here. We do frequently get snow in London but usually Jan/Feb. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 00:33:18 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: in way of proof... P. Henry wrote: >as far as proof goes, well, I guess anything can be faked on the web and it's all just cyberspace after >all, and, even though both brian and mike have both come forward and verified my stories, I suppose >some will continue to disregard me as a fake, regardless. >at any rate, for you and those who have extended their trust to me, I hope these are enjoyed as >interesting pieces of Joni history. Pat, what darling, vintage photos! $1.25 to see Joni - argh! And what a lucky guy you are to have experienced such a wonderful space in time and have such memories to cherish. It's also cool that you, Brian and Mike (Cul) have converged here. I'll never forget Cul's fantastic story of the ferry crossing with Joni. I wonder if there will ever be a way for you all to hook up in cyberspace with some of the others who ran the Cellar. Bring them on into the list, if you do find them. I learned long ago that the truth is always more amazing than fiction. Thanks for sharing these with us. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:16:57 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Earthquake and ireneNJC >colin wrote: > >Kakkie-I read this and thought 'i'd be shitting myself' and quite frankly i >wouldn't be living where you live. Either you have great denial, are mad, or >can't move!!!! And Kakki replied: >You have to be in great denial to live in L.A., I prefer to be called >"eccentric", and I will never move ;-D I used to live in Wellington, and one of the prime reasons for my move to Auckland was the "earthquake factor". I experienced a couple of biggish ones down there - one had me cowering under my desk at work for a good couple of minutes - not great when you're working in a very narrow 100 year old building, and you're on the 1st floor of 6! Wellington is apparently 50 years overdue for a BIG earthquake and I definitely didn't want to be around when it hits - I much prefer to live around active volcanoes ;o) Actually, come to think of it, nowhere in New Zealand is safe! Helen _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:29:26 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Millenium countdown to be six degree'd (NJC yet) Bob wrote: >OK, Helen, you have officially called "Dibs" on the next round...I'll lay >low... Oh God, now the pressure's on! Actually I shouldn't take "dibs" because I'm usually at work when I read my mail, but I answer it from home - so there's quite often an 8 hour delay. And I know that's just too long to wait! I really appreciate the offer, though, but you go for your life! Helen _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz - -----Original Message----- From: RMuRocks@aol.com To: hell@ihug.co.nz Cc: joni@smoe.org Date: Sunday, 17 October 1999 02:31 Subject: Re: Millenium countdown to be six degree'd (NJC yet) >In a message dated 10/16/99 12:37:33 AM US Central Standard Time, >hell@ihug.co.nz writes: > ><< I definitely like playing this, but SOMEONE always seems to get in first! >>> > > >Bob > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 04:29:01 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: NJC Song-writing JMDLer, For Bob Vince Lavieri sang in E minor: << Jimmy asked where to live? and Bob said I have info to give (and begins to sing "The Battle of Greenville," to the tune of "Green Acres" Greenville, South Car'lina is the place to be, no earthquakes but the great hurricanes windy If a killer hurricane comes our way We call on Pat Robertson and he sits down to pray: da da da da da: New York: da da da da da: be torqued da da da da da: Times Square da da da da da: lay it bare Vince (holding his side, his mind gone from the kidney stone agony) replies: Greenville, Mich'gan is the place to be, small town living, we do it naturally, No 'canes, no quakes, just occasional big winds and those from nature as we have no Strom Thurmond. da da da da da some snow da da da da da let it blow da da da da da cozy nights at home da da da da da crazy cries of love What's next to you in dear SC? Jesse Helms of your kin state NC not the place for a Joni Fest since anyone intelligent will get placed under arrest. We'd welcome you all to the land up north, borders Canada, our Joni source! If a little snow keeps you away. you can borrow my sled dogs, just mush and be on your way! da da da da da JMDLers everywhere da da da da da Joni's ex-inlaws live here da da da da da Mary Pistassi! da da da da da will shelter Kakki! >> Hallelujah sisters & brothers! I especially enjoy the verse about Jesse. What kills me is how Pat Robertson has been proclaiming for many years that such natural disasters are somehow punishments from G-d upon "sinners." Maybe Pat's right & G-d is REALLY pissed at voters for Jesse Helms. Y2K2U2 E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 04:48:31 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: being joni for halloween Ryan Lantrip" queried: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 18:09:28 CDT << I was wondering if anyone could help me with this. For Halloween, i've decided to go out as Joni. I already have the wig, some cigarettes, guitar, and a drag queen friend of mine is helping me with the make up to make my face more Joni-like. And that leads me to the eternal question....What should I wear? What is a typical Joni outfit circa early 70's? >> Any good blond wig will do & a beret would help. Try a flowing silk or polyester pantsuit. & make sure to get several packs of American Spirits because everyone will certainly want one.... @~) E.T. NP: Empty (Try Another) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:30:55 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: being joni for halloween Ryan asked: What should I wear? What is a typical Joni outfit circa early 70's? A leotard and a wraparound skirt. A la Last Waltz (she claimed she was criticised for looking like a Beverly Hills Housewife, so go like that!);-D). Lots of neck jewellery. A kaftan, but that's a bit obvious. Native American jewellery is also a must. As a make-up artist myself I must say: It all depends on the eyelid shape. If you have naturally large lids, then you're halfway there. Anything to highlight this fact will do wonders. Otherwise, tilt your hear back a lot and strike a pose. If you have a pair of joke false teeth, stick them in! She wears drop ear-rings generally. I wish I could, but I have big brown eyes, a tan etc. the wrong colouring. I could go as her Lakota friend Iron Eyes Cody. Have fun experimenting. And have a laugh on H'ween Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:08:16 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Joan Baez in London (NJC) Dear UK Jimdlers Just a quick note to let you know that I will be accompanying my Mum to see Ms Baez at the Lyric Hammersmith. I know that Ms. Baez is a fan of Turbulent Indigo and Dar Williams and the new generation of singersongwriters (Eliza Carthy is in support). Hoping that she will sing Diamonds and Rust. Much Joni Jamie Zubairi The Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:23:56 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: A bit of Trivia I received my TLC album on saturday (yes, the RnB girl group) and I was poring over the sleeve as one does, and I noticed that Joni and TLC share a friendship. In Paul Starr, the make-up artist. I know that Paul sang with our Joan on PWWAM but I wouldn't know which one he is. I actually quite like the album and find it amusing (if you like your lyrics about 'real black niggas, got 7 figures, 10" or bigga'). Much Joni Jamie The Zoob Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:10:12 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: HOSL Demo A very kind Rob Jordan sent me a copy of the HOSL demo and it hasn't been of the player since. This thread has probably been around awhile, but I find this version ABSOLUTELY MINDBLOWING. From the very first strike of the guitar to the final chords of the piano. I feel really honoured to be given this insight into the process of how Joni thinks, y'know, from first the guitar, then the vocal line, then the arrangements. Haunting is Harry's House. (is it a tone/semitone lower than the final version?). Much more introspective, yet a pithily bitter rendition. Dreamland is a HOOT! Done in a kind of Brazilian mardi gras than the Carib version. (I wonder... drums on this version by then boyfriend John Guerin - at a guess, percussion on the next version by Don Alias, her other boyfriend... hmmm). I love the fact that you can just about hear her saying 'in the rehearsal....' at the end. Anyone done the TAB for this one? Sue? Marian? Mark? Michael? Much Joni Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:14:36 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: NJC Millenium countdown to be six degree'd To which I must add, with a certain inevitability, if you haven't heard Shawn Colvin's version of You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go, it might just turn your head. That's from Covers Girl, isn't it? I like Shawn but don't have that disc yet...I'll have to pick it up! Thanks for the comment, Bob NP: Fairport Convention, "Night In The city" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:39:14 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC Jesse Eric said: << I especially enjoy the verse about Jesse. What kills me is how Pat Robertson has been proclaiming for many years that such natural disasters are somehow punishments from G-d upon "sinners." Maybe Pat's right & G-d is REALLY pissed at voters for Jesse Helms.>> I try to always see the best in everyone but I really despise Jesse Helms. I remember when our family moved to Raleigh, NC in 1968, Jesse Helms was the editorialist for WRAL TV-5, and a couple times a week he would appear after the 6:00 news...our family would hear "And now, here's tonight's editorial with Jesse Helms" and we'd rush in there to watch this mush-mouthed goon spout some nonsense about whatever...we'd all laugh out loud watching and listening to him, it was better than a sitcom... Then he became a Senator, and he's had the last laugh... Bob NP: Joe Jackson, "Five Guys Named Moe" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:46:51 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: NJC (lyrics & hatred) Beautiful lyrics, Bill. Great imagery. Thanks. Also, I am wondering what you think of this. When the Matthew Shepard hate-crime occurred, I received many e-mails with opinions and observations about it. Someone also e-mailed the url for a web-site that may or may not have been a joke but it was created by students, or at the University of Wisconsin, or at least on it's network. It was a anti-hippie page with suggestions on how to get rid of hippies, hippie hate mail...the list goes on. There was even a heading that taught how to make nail bombs and other destructive devices. The point is, I thought someone at the school should be notified about the site because the university had provided the network for these students. If it was a joke, it was still a sick one and I felt that although it may be freedom of expression, people at the university should be notified before something similar to the Shepard incident occurred as a result of someone gaining information or ideas from this site. A friend of mine disagreed, told me to "let it go!!!" and said that the best way to stop hate is not by "fighting" hate but to spread love and if I were to protest this site, it would only fuel the fire. I told him that it wasn't about fighting. It was about awareness regardless of the fact that it would be unconstitutional to ban this sick form of expression, joke or no joke. How many times, after a crime is committed, have we heard "We should have seen the signs". I did write to the University. They responded by thanking me for my concern but the site is still up. Other people I know said they just laughed because it was just so silly. I'm wondering what you think about this. The url is: http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~tft/hippie/index.html Just curious =) Janene ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:48:23 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: in way of proof... oops! looks like I mistyped some of those links... (thanks marian) the last part of my post should have read: "if you look closely, even though the newspaper pic is really blurry and poor resolution... http://homepages.go.com/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff/pat-stage.JPG and even though this one was taken some 30 years later... http://homepages.go.com/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff/wolff.JPG I think you can still see that it's me." also, I just scanned and uploaded this picture which is remarkable in that it shows the gang gathered around the original logo (remember all the members (except me) were art students) AND at least partially the wall to wall mural in the background. btw, that's my old buddy brian there on the left playing his Gibson: http://homepages.go.com/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff/logopic.JPG pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:49:01 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC Six Degrees Helen Backpedals: <> Helen, don't wimp out! :~) Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it... Bob NP: Joe Jackson, "What's the Use of Getting Sober?" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:28:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: songwriting JMDLers? Thought I'd jump in on this thread. Joni has, of course, forgotten more about songwriting than I will ever know -- but there are a few ditties I've penned that I'm proud enough of to share with you folks. You can find lyrics and mp3 files for download at: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/38/don_rowe.html ===== Don Rowe "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:14:29 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Earthquake and ireneNJC Helen writes: << Actually, come to think of it, nowhere in New Zealand is safe! Helen >> Also won't you be the first JMDLer to experience 1/1/2000 ? I could be wrong about my time zones, but if I'm right make sure you let us all know if there are any Y2K problems. I need to know if I should rush to the bank and empty out my $36. balance :-{ ) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:02:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - October 17 1988: Joni performs at the San Remo Songfest in Italy. 1990: (from Wally's bio page): [Today,] the L.A. Theater Center began previews of a revue type show that featured 5 singers (3 women and 2 men) performing the songs of Joni Mitchell with a five piece band. The most well known of the singers was 2 time Tony winner Hinton Battle. Calling itself "The Joni Mitchell Project" the Jacques Brel style show was directed by David Schweizer and played for three months at L.A.T.C. Joni's then manager Barry Krost was a member of the Theater Center board of trustees. A few days after the official opening on November 1, Joni herself showed up for the show and was persuaded to sing a new song. Joni told Musician magazine about her visit to LATC: "I went to hear the Joni Mitchell Project, this revue that did some of my songs. They called me up and I did "Cherokee Louise" acapella, dancing to keep the groove. I'm coming up on the rape scene and I'm, like, highly mirthful. But it came off because people get feelings from it. Every time you sing it you don't relive it." For photos of the event: http://www.jonimitchell.com/JMProject90.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:45:23 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Kennedy Does "Urge For Going" I saw this guy at Cornell last spring! He composed a suite based on Hendrix tunes that was incredible! Thanks for the tip...Sue >Hi there, > >OK, OK, OK . . . . . I know . . . . . I work for EMI, so I >really shouldn't do this, but I think you ought to know : > >Classic violinist Nigel Kennedy does a beautiful rendition >of Joni's "Urge For Going" on his new album, "Classic >Kennedy", on which he tries to perfect the three minute >song concept. Check it out if you dare! > >Take care, > >Peter ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ weekend email address: suemc16@webtv.net "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:55:59 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: re: songwriting JMDLers? Anne originally asked whether there were any songwriters on the list. I was going to respond at the time, but didn't. I'd hardly call myself a songwriter, tho' I've made a few feeble attempts. What usually happens is that I come up with a nice melody to go with words that just fly into my head, but later discover, more often than not, that I've actually stolen someone else's melody. I used to write poetry, but decided the world really didn't need another mediocre poet. I had a few things published eons ago and it pretty much died there. Every now and then I come up with some lyrics that seem pretty good, but I can never seem to develop them into much beyond one or two verses and a refrain, which isn't enough. Here's one of my sillier lyrics that went nowhere: He's not worth the paper he's printed on, That two-dimensional man of mine. See what I mean? Hoping there's real talent out there, and sticking to my dayjob... Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:29:37 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Millenium countdown... NJC The Rev Vince (a lurker?? in whose definition?) says: "As I am an annoying person, most often, who personally believes that the whole concept of the millennium is just a mere accident of numbers and European calendar ethno-centrism.. what year is it in the Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, Mayan, Inca, and Mesopotanian calendars, for example..." Bingo! So much for end-of-the-world theories. "...and if it were important, we would observe it correctly on midnight, 31 December 2000 and not 1999, for 2000 would be the last year in the current millennium... and because of an accident in the calendar making process, this millennium probably began on 1 January 1997..." You're right there too, but most people just don't get it. It's just another excuse for a big party, and you can't knock that. (But anyone who stocked up on expensive champagne and so on - suckahs!) "...if I were to be this cranky and irritable and point this all out," But of course, you're not! ;~D "I would remind everyone that "Millennium" has been spelled wrong in all these post subjects: 2 "l's" 2 "n's"." What can I say, Vince? The whole world is going to hel in a handbasket! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:46:59 -0400 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Joni shopping bliss Leslie Mixon >I think, "I'll stick to singing - why should I even >embarrass myself with a stringed instrument >in front of him?" Although I could always practice >when he's not home. Sounds like someone else is going to be asking Santa for a dulcimer this year! As we all know, finger-picked guitar and strummed dulcimer make just the most beautiful sound. Very best wishes PaulC PS. Kind Philip from Ireland just sent me video of Joni playing on the BBC back in 1969, I imagine, where she demonstrates the sound-holes and inlay on her beautiful dulcimer, made by Joellen Lapidus (see WallyB's site). The whole sequence on the video reminds me of how much I love Joni's 'speaking' voice, too. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:48:51 -0400 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: English Weather (NJC) David Wright at David.Wright@oberlin.edu wrote: >The weather in London reminded me of the curse put on >Narnia in C.S. Lewis' "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe": >"Always winter, but never Christmas." Thanks, David. You're really cheering me up!! PaulC (thinking of moving to Winnipeg) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:49:58 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: i gave up on... NJC In a message dated 10/16/99 8:55:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jason.maloney@virgin.net writes: on lisa loeb, << I have both albums (Tails and Firecracker), >> she does a song on her first album called 'hurricane' and that song is very neat. i liked it as much as stay and i think now that one song alone was what made me think she would be a heavy weight. i liked her glasses too. pat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:08:15 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: songwriting JMDLers? In a message dated 10/16/99 8:10:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, foa@igc.org writes: << Softly he spoke And he said"Carry your scars, Cover up the bruises Throughout our lives The heart never loses The blood of lost love." Blood of lost love. >> this is really beautiful. and true.pat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:21:58 -0400 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: songwriting JMDLers? thanks pat, btw, i do have some mp3's on line, though they are my early songs.... at http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/21/bill_dollinger.html bill - ----- Original Message ----- From: > << Softly he spoke > And he said"Carry your scars, > Cover up the bruises > Throughout our lives > The heart never loses > The blood of lost love." > Blood of lost love. >> > this is really beautiful. and true.pat > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:49:20 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Tape Tree 7a From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:36:37 -0400 I'm calling it 7a because it's sort of an unofficial tree. I can make some sets. This is the "Joni's Jazz" that took place in NYC recently. Although an audience tape, the sound is remarkable and the musicianship is usually very good. So, I'll take the first 5 people for now, with more to follow, naturally. Please e-mail me off list. Thanks jlamadoo@one.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:00:03 +0200 From: "Lori REASON" Subject: Re:re: Joni in the check-out line and I was *smiling* in the supermarket Saturday (unHeard of) when I realized I was singing along with "...don't know what you've got til it's gone... - don't know what you've got..." (Traffic Jam version) Lori ******* Eric, WOW...what a wonderful story!! Isn't it amazing how spiritual these things can be...I had a very similar supermarket/joni/emotional experience, that I shared with the list awhile back...man, how freaky...thanks for letting us know, I can totally relate... - - Ange Sydney <> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:46:55 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Dulcimers Julian wrote: Glad you delurked! > am desperate to (A) Find the music to "All I > Want" and (B) any other tune on this beautiful instrument Check SueMac's guitar tab pages (available through the jmdl website I think)....there should be tab for all the dulcimer songs either there now, or on its way, from Howard Wright. Contact me off-list for other dulcimer info. Best, ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ (Website under construction!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:43:15 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Tac caT *NJC* Linda, I loved your very thoughtful (and sad - boohoo!) e-mail: "Wednesday marked the 2nd anniversary of the death of my beloved cat, Aslan- also 15+ years old." I am ashamed to admit that I never remember anniversaries of anything. I can't even remember the exact date my mother died, except that it was around this time of year about 5 years ago. I do remember that it was just a bit after my Dad's 75th birthday (which was Oct 3), and about a week before Hallowe'en. I remember thinking she probably planned it that way - so she could stick around long enough to be there (in a manner of speaking) for Dad's birthday, but couldn't make it to Christmas and so decided to bow out in sufficient time before Hallowe'en as to not screw it up for the kids. (My Mum was like that, as so many people are.) My cats are still pretty young. I don't know how I'm going to handle it when they go. I guess I'll know when I get there. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 05:33:23 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: RE: re: songwriting JMDLers? Lori, Thanks for the encouragement...and seeings you showed interest...I thought I'd post the list the rest of the lyrics...they aren't as mature and skilled as those that others have shared, but here goes: He's far far away In between Coffee Shops and Cafes, He's washing his own clothes And watching late nite TV He talks of walks after dark In friendly city alleys He talks of Coffee Shops and Cafes And I'm rising for work As he lays down to bed In between Coffee Shops and Cafes He's travelling on planes And a limosine drove him yesterday He's sitting in some apartment I hope he's thinking 'bout me He rings me from the office He tells me there's a view He says he can see Coffee Shops and Cafes And I'm rising for work As he lays down to bed In between Coffee Shops and Cafes He's far far away In between Coffee Shops and Cafes He's reading many books About ancient Rome and Greece He tells me he is happy But that he can't wait to see me He says "Baby, I'll take you out for Coffee, in some pretty little Cafe" And I'm rising for work As he lays down to bed In the city of Coffee Shops and Cafes In the city of Coffee Shops and Cafes > Hey, I think this is a nice start - keep going! > > Lori > > > I just finished a new song yesterday..it's about my boyfriend > being "far, far away, inbetween coffee shops and cafes" - in Melbourne, > while I'm in Sydney...I've just started a new job, that means I begin work > at 1am in the morning...so the chorus of my song is "I'm rising for > work...as he lays down to bed, in between coffee shops and cafes" - wish I > could sing it to u all...I'm rather proud of it, it's in DADF#AD..and I > use > a lot of the shapes joni uses in Midway...anyway that's enuf from this > JMDLer songwriter > > Ange > Sydney > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 05:45:41 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: RE: songwriting JMDLers? (NJ) Hey Catherine....I know how u feel about the "mediocre" thing...but don't be so harsh on yourself...I really liked that little tiny lyric you shared with the list! It reminds me of when lines come to me that never get used cos they don't get in my head as I'm writing a song, they'll just flash into my brain on a drive, and I write them down, but it's hard to just slot something so abstract into a song....some of mine are (and these really ARE silly) "I cried in the shower my camouflaged tears" and "the tallest trees were powerlines" and "the diamonds of broken bottles bounce of my high beams, road-side jewellery stores of the dark" Ange Sea-side in Sydney > Anne originally asked whether there were any songwriters on the list. I > was > going to respond at the time, but didn't. > > I'd hardly call myself a songwriter, tho' I've made a few feeble attempts. > > What usually happens is that I come up with a nice melody to go with words > > that just fly into my head, but later discover, more often than not, that > I've actually stolen someone else's melody. > > I used to write poetry, but decided the world really didn't need another > mediocre poet. I had a few things published eons ago and it pretty much > died there. > > Every now and then I come up with some lyrics that seem pretty good, but I > > can never seem to develop them into much beyond one or two verses and a > refrain, which isn't enough. > > Here's one of my sillier lyrics that went nowhere: > > He's not worth the paper he's printed on, > That two-dimensional man of mine. > > See what I mean? > > Hoping there's real talent out there, and sticking to my dayjob... > > > > Catherine (in Toronto) > cateri@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:24:10 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: HOSL Demo Jamie wrote: > A very kind Rob Jordan sent me a copy of the HOSL demo and it hasn't been > of the player since. This thread has probably been around awhile, but I > find this version ABSOLUTELY MINDBLOWING. From the very first strike of the > guitar to the final chords of the piano. I feel really honoured to be given > this insight into the process of how Joni thinks, y'know, from first the > guitar, then the vocal line, then the arrangements. I love that this is getting more widely circulated around the list and hearing people's reactions to it. Think I played it about 200 times when I first received it. It's such a surprise and just about the best "alternate" Joni I've ever heard. Kakki NP: Byrds - It Happens Every Day ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:02:15 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: NJC Six Degrees Bob wrote: >Helen, don't wimp out! :~) >Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it... Backpedalling? Moi??? No, no, no, not at all! After all, a music slut of my standing leaps at this sort of opportunity! I just don't want people to get a message about the six degrees, and then have to "wait" until pushy Helen's had her turn. Hardly fair, is it! If the next one comes to me at home, and it hasn't been sitting in my mailbox for four hours, then I'll be right in there - otherwise it's every man/woman/slut for themselves! Now if I could just work out a foolproof way of "blocking" Bob's mail . . . . . . . Helen _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:05:46 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: songwriting JMDLers? From: "Kakki" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:16:51 -0700 Catherine wrote: > Here's one of my sillier lyrics that went nowhere: > > He's not worth the paper he's printed on, > That two-dimensional man of mine. > See what I mean? > Hoping there's real talent out there, and sticking to my dayjob... Oh bunk! You are a great writer and I'm sure a very good poet/songwriter. I like these lyrics - they are catchy in a good way! Kakki NP: Byrds - Renaissance Fair ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:04:32 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: HOSL Demo << Think I played it about 200 times when I first received it. It's such a surprise and just about the best "alternate" Joni I've ever heard.>> I'll always remember the first time I heard the Hissings Demo...it was when Brian Gross & I met Catgirl in downtown Philly for our little "meet 'n greet"...Catgirl gave us each a copy and we listened to it while we drove from Philly back to Laurel, NJ. Now, it's *always* cool to hear new Joni, but to hear it alongside a fellow JMDL'er is a real treat, because you get to share those moments of revelation! I never thought driving on a NJ freeway could be so wonderful! Bob NP: Stevie Nicks, "Think About It" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:45:20 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: songwriting JMDLers? > Softly he spoke > And he said"Carry your scars, > Cover up the bruises > Throughout our lives > The heart never loses > The blood of lost love." > Blood of lost love. >> > this is really beautiful. and true.pat Pat took the words right out of my mouth. Bill's lyrics ring very honest and true. Everyone who has shared their songs have wonderful original lyrics - but we do have an abundance of great writers here so it's not that much of a surprise. I wsh I could figure a way to use the mp3 - it never works for me and it may be that I don't have enough ram/memory. Any experts that can clue me in, I'd appreciate it. Kakki, who will only share her lyrics with those who have a preference for the early, curlicue Joni ;-D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:26:07 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: (NJC) Matthew Shepard Azeem said: "Irrational hatred (and that is what I believe homophobia, xenophobia, misogyny etc are) seems to be more about what the hater thinks about himself or herself..." (and much more.) I think you're quite right. I'm not totally sure of this, but it seems to me that the average homophobe is more often male than female. I believe that men who hate gay men in that irrational way probably do have questions about their own sexuality that they are afraid to admit. If they weren't afraid, they'd realize that not every gay guy is out to jump them (jeez, one look in the mirror should tell them that!) It also seems to me that the type of person who hates "different" people for no apparent rational reason is often someone who is of both low intelligence and low self-esteem. More often than not the ones who complain about "foreigners" or women taking "their" jobs are, I hate to say it, losers to begin with. It makes life a lot easier if you can blame someone else for your troubles and the more that "someone else" stands out (by looking different or whatever), the more likely they are to garner sympathy from like-minded "losers", which lends strength to their claim and avoids their having to look inward for any problem. You hear white guys saying this more and more that it would be a lot easier to get a job if they were a non-white, lesbian female in a wheelchair - that's gettin' kinda tired, eh? Welcome to the world of competition, guys. Standing back, waitin' for the flamethrowers... Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:13:55 -0700 From: "Ray & Cathy" Subject: re: songwriting JMDLer's I have enjoyed and appreciated all you brave songwriters sharing your art so much these past few days. Its given me the courage to step out with a song I wrote last winter while I was missing my old home & life: AS IT ONLY CAN IN CALIFORNIA Sometimes I want to give it all away And change my name Other days I can honestly say I'm grateful to the rain These revolving stages Keep me a stranger to myself I must be so hard to live with Side by side No one seems to mind My swirling like a Big Sur tide California was my dream Ethereal and free Now with Oregon beneath my feet I'm open to her lead Then the lighting will change Hope gets washed away in gray I wanna be warm and golden again Will it ever end? This fading out and fading back in... I'm watching now as charcoal clouds Drift down receding river This little tidal town's like me We both arrange around summer Around summer Summer takes mainstage Lilacs are laughing at me Saying, "How weak can you be? People fall in love here, too They don't need no Malibu moon" Calender says its time for cut-offs But winter holds on Like me and my memories Not so easily gone The Hawthorne's through blooming I hope my heart is turning, too Cause California's gonna stay A thousand miles away Some friends already Already have forgot my face... They say once the stage gets in your blood Its there forever If I never run again in eucalyptus wind I will always call it home...oh... Love is waiting up the stairs - he cares He's being strong for me He thinks I never see That same expression in his eyes But I catch him looking secretly Up where our sweet sun used to be A crystal's all that's left to shine And even she's in black and white (I know) its not fair to compare A sky so rarely blue But if you only knew...if you only knew... How beautiful it is to always live in June La la la la la Lilacs are holding their breath Wondering what I'll say next Well...I can learn to love here, too Just let me miss my Malibu moon Cathy in Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:27:27 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: (NJC) Matthew Shepard I only have one small coment about your post, which i general i find myself agreeing with, and that is intelligence has nothing to do with bigotry. Some truly brilliant people are still bigots. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:37:14 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: in defense of lawyers (sort of).... I am a lawyer, and, while one of my professional obligations is to defend the law profession's members, I certainly don't believe that all lawyers act in a manner befitting of the profession. (understatement, you say?) Joni goes after lawyers and law in several places in her work. The line in 'No Apologies' seems out of place and out of context, because in several other songs, she attacks lawyers in a manner which condemns, or at least criticizes, whole aspects of society and how it just isn't working very well. Here, she just seems to me to be making a short-hand reference to the rest of her work, in which she roundly criticizes lots and lots of people in power, but particularly lawyers, judges and justice, which latter term she would certainly put in quotation marks and spit out like she spits out "Oh charity" in 'The Magdalene Laundries'. (By the way, I was trying to do this off the top of my head, but thought it would be more useful to use Les's Lyric search page and get the quotations right. It makes it longer, but at least it is accurate. Amazing, too, 'cause there is stuff there that isn't released. For example, I searched "judge" and came up with a song copyrighted by Joni in 1967 called 'Jeremy' which I had never heard of. Thanks again, Les.) In 'Fiction', she mentions "(Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief)" in the context of a huge, long list of attacks and cynical or skeptical statements. I have never really understood why she listed only those three in that long panoply of complaints. In 'The Three Great Stimulants", she rightly and properly goes after the ambulance chasers who have been so successful in turning personal injury litigation into a farce of blame-the-other-guy-and-get-what-you-can, which farce, unfortunately, juries have bought into big time in the U.S. She says (in a line which I have often referred to in a self-denigrating manner): "I saw a little lawyer on the tube/ He said, "It's so easy now, anyone can sue"/ "Let me show you how your petty aggravations can profit you" I love those lines. They ring truer and clearer all the time. She went after justice itself ("Is Justice just ice?") in 'Sex Kills' and skewered lawyers with the Robespierre line ("And lawyers haven't been this popular/ Since Robespierre slaughtered half of France"). While still being critical, she seemed much less cynical or harsh in Shadows and Light with "Critics of all expression/ Judges in black and white/Saying it's wrong/ Saying it's right/ compelled by prescribed standards/ Or some ideal we fight." Perhaps the high point for criticism of lawyers is in 'The Windfall (Everything For Nothing)' where she says: "In the land of litigation/ The courts are like game shows/ Take what's behind the curtain / The jury cries/ I'm not gonna be the jackpot/ At the end of your perjured rainbow/ Not if local justice has even one good eye . . . . . In the land of mass frustration/ The judges are sleeping/ Counting woolly little lawyers/ And grinding their teeth" Why are lawyers all "liitle" to Joni? She makes me feel bad and dumb, and I'm going through enough self doubt on my own without having to be reminded af all the bad lawyers and judges in the world. Brett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:36:17 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Blue on Gold CD Today I broke down & bought the first Joni Mitchell album I purchased back in 1975, Blue, on 24 karat gold CD. Omygod does it sound FANTASTIC!!! On a Roland amp & CD player through Klipch Heresy speakers it sounded better than I've EVER heard it. But what is that scratchy noise on This Flight Tonight when she sings "mythical"? It's not nearly as noticeable on the gold CD but it's still there. Glad they fixed the opening to All I Want. Also bought the HDCD of Hejira but haven't listened yet. First I replaced all Joni's albums with CDs & now I'm replacing all Joni's CDs with HDCDs or Gold CDs! But it's well worth it & I enjoy giving the old ones to friends. E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:29:55 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL Demo In a message dated 10/18/1999 3:54:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << I love that this is getting more widely circulated around the list and hearing people's reactions to it. Think I played it about 200 times when I first received it. It's such a surprise and just about the best "alternate" Joni I've ever heard. Kakki >> I know what you mean. I remember popping in the casette tape I got from a dear sweet friend that will remain nameless and just sat there in a daze for the first 4 or 5 listens. Then when I made it into CD I sat there again in awe. I made myself 3 Cd's just in case, then starting making one for Kakki, Ashara, and my nameless friend. One sits in my explorer and I listen to it ALL the time! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:39:55 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL Demo In a message dated 10/18/1999 8:24:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluor.com writes: << I'll always remember the first time I heard the Hissings Demo...it was when Brian Gross & I met Catgirl in downtown Philly for our little "meet 'n greet"...Catgirl gave us each a copy and we listened to it while we drove from Philly back to Laurel, NJ. >> Ohhhh Good memory Bob. I made you and Brian Cd's first then came Kakki and Ashara. I didn't want to come empty handed to the meet and greet and what better way then with a very cool and wonderful demo tape of the Goddess herself!!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:07:43 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: NJC Jesse Bob said: <> I lived in the Tarheels back in the early '80s & think NC is among the most beautiful states in the good old USA. But BOY the repressed mentality really got on my nerves! Jesse Helms was my Dad's hero because he was the only politician to support his tax protest. We would "debate" about Jesse often (my Mom called it "arguing" but it was actually a lot of fun). I wish my Dad were still around today so we could debate Jesse's comment to President Clinton last week during the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty hearings: "Give my regards to Monica." Behavior like this is why I'm a proud Democrat! E.T. NP: Amelia (HDCD) Omygod! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:18:13 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: songwriting JMDLers?-- longish -- njc i started making music when i was very young, even before i went to school. my parents did the usual thing in these cases: they hired a piano teacher, and -- the usual thing again -- the teacher did her best to kill every ounce of interest i had in music. fortunately, i stopped taking lessons. but my parents refused to buy me a piano. so when i was seven, i used my birthday/xmas money to buy a guitar. like so many other self-taught guitarists, i learned by playing beatles tunes and campfire favorites. my very first songs were in spanish. in my early teens, i started writing exclusively in english and, after the the joni-mitchell epiphany, in open tunings only. last year i found old tapes of my first songs in english. i still like them very much. in fact, i haven't written a lot of music in the last 4 or 5 years. i'm either not discontent enough or too discontent, i don't know which. but i can't write anymore. i wrote these two songs when i was a teenager. when i read the lyrics today, they felt so alien. it's almost as if they'd been written by a total stranger that has a lot in common with me. wallyk STILL ALL OF FLIES Everybody's waiting for my second coming Everybody seems to own a share of my ashes And even god is taking bets on my second coming But my bones are so many burnt out matches I'm not really counting on my second coming I don't think I'll pull myself together before long Oh my back is aching and my feet are swollen My complexion's spotted And my waistline's all but gone Lately I've been sitting in my pretty parlor Sitting pretty, knitting and still all out of flies Lately I've been hiding myself from all those candid cameras Weaving cauls to pull over your Pretty, prowling eyes. THESE ALLEYS OF DESIRE Maybe all the precious milk My mother failed to turn into Will make me brood over the nature of thirst For ever Maybe the feathers And the tar The scabby walls in these bars Have proved to be too much Too close Too many In the bitter end So what makes one man desired And another one so tired Of desires and designs On the part of less desired lesser men That glide along these lesser streets That dwell beneath these secret pleats These alleys of desire Maybe all the precious milk My mother failed to turn into Will make me brood over the nature of thirst for ever Is it better Is it worse It all depends On what it is you're pursuing To try and cling on to To drift afloat Out of this mess To little oh too little Oh too little oh too little In the bitter end ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #467 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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