From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #462 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, October 15 1999 Volume 04 : Number 462 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: an old new news ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: What ever happened to the listmembers galleries? (njc) ["Kakki" ] Offer to all Southern Hemisphere Joniphiles ["Rodney Steinhofel" ] Joni Tribute Album? ["Dante LeVally" ] Re: What ever happened to the listmembers galleries? (njc) [TerryM2442@ao] Re: Joni's Jazz Tapes Surface!! [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] You were missed NJC ["John Low" ] Kyle Eastwood [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: NJC [catman ] Re: Millenium countdown... (NJC) [David Wright ] Re: Millenium countdown... (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Kyle Eastwood [FMYFL@aol.com] hello again! njc ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Re: Millenium countdown... (NJC) [David Wright ] RE: Bob Dylan on Dharma NJC (now SJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: MatthewNJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Doc Watson (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Hello everyone (finally) [Julian51469@aol.com] Re: MatthewNJC [catman ] The Joni Web Sites ["P. Henry" ] Re: MatthewNJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Pre-release box set ["P. Henry" ] Re: NJC Millenium countdown to be six degree'd ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: NJC: Joan gets a Handel on things [Don Rowe ] Re: Hello everyone (finally) [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] CSN cover of Urge for Going and Joni/Graham stuff ["Kakki" ] Kennedy Does "Urge For Going" ["Peter Holmstedt" ] original writings, Joni style ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Springsteen: NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] NJC: Looking for CSNY tour venues/dates ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Millenium countdown... (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 03:33:40 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: an old new news Penny wrote: >Agreed!!! I LOVED this most interesting post. >S., I hope you come back often to mess with our heads and sit us on our >butts. ;-) BTW does "smarcaurele" stand for Sassy Mitch Answers >Ritualistic Conversations and Ultimately Reminds Elequently: Likewise >Evolve? >from: "smarcaurele" Sounds to me like it stands for Le Vierge du Houle. Hi Chris, lovely poem. POC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 01:37:22 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: What ever happened to the listmembers galleries? (njc) E.T. wrote: > Nobody's commented on the self-portrait I painted in High School.... I just noticed it recently during my twice yearly perusal of the Gallery, Eric, and I think it is fantastic. I'm amazed you did it in High School - you have a wonderful talent. I've always loved Dali-esqe-surrealism. What is the size of the original and what medium did you use? Anyone checking it out, be sure to click on to enlarge it to get the full effect. Kakki NP: CSN Box Set (How did I miss this before - it is a total mindblower!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:24:04 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: Bob Dylan on Dharma NJC (now SJC) << Pre VG-8 days when our Joan was thinking of leaving the business, didn't she write to the producers of Northern Exposure to write in an episode about her driving thru' Alaska running away from the business? (I got this from the VG-8 site) >> >this is the one show i think i could see joni on as even a regular. coming >and going, maybe do a song every so often. Imagine that!! A regular spot in which we could all see Joni do her bits and all the time, people going,'Oh that's what she sounds like now... I wish she would sing Big Yellow Taxi!' ;-D Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 04:27:51 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: The rain in Spain. "She's so deliciously... low." It's three in the a.m. here and AMC is having a late, late showing of My Fair Lady. Dear Elisa just got the hang of the Rain in Spain! I should be asleep but the pull of this wonderful work is too sweet and fun. So here I am, up all night, listening to the calypso passage of this song and reading a fresh set of Joni posts. Bob! Glad to hear your requests for the Joni's Jazz tape has been answered. Bravo! It is fitting justice, as recently, Bob was kind enough to tape a huge chunk of the tape trees for me. Yahoo! These tapes may be old news for most of you here, but it is a joyous revelation for me to hear some of this. So at Bob's encouragement, I thought I'd share this bit: Without a doubt, my favorite passage to hear was the "Speechless" melody that became Two Grey Rooms. I practically glowed while listening to this wordless melody floating, perfectly phrased, over that beautiful piano piece. Years ago, when I knew nadda about music, but fancied the idea of writing songs, I made tapes of myself humming melodies that I thought could be expanded into music. In spite of making many of these tapes, I stopped and somewhere along the line threw them all away as silly, thinking, NO ONE WRITES SONGS THIS WAY!!!... HA!!!! Way to go, Joan!!! See? It turns out I wasn't crazy after all! How could I have known? Sorry, Anne, I haven't written any songs since, save a ribald cowboy song I am proud of. My musical path has been very screwy. For years I attended guitar classes only to drop the minute I would discover the teacher could offer me nothing on how Joni got those wonderful sounds. Desperately, I took music theory classes in college and found I really enjoyed it. Can barely play a lick, but I can write out a lead sheet for you! It wasn't until this past spring, when I joined the information age and gleaned the tabs online, that my guitar was finally put to use, some fifteen years after I bought it!!! Alas, it is a piece of crap. Now I am beyond happiness, caterwauling Joan to my hearts content. Of course, I hope to become good enough to write my own material. ( Dare I say this among this crowd? ) But most of Joni's career is probably behind her compared to what's ahead. I will need to pick up my chops, both playing and writing. if I want more Joan like material. --Not that I ever expect to do ANYTHING in her league. Just that I know the general music world will NOT be providing me with music and words that come near her vision, so, might as well try a hand at it myself! When I get my hands on that spanking new Parker, and work up a few chops, I think I'll start humming melodies again. Ashara, will YOU be bringing Lobster and Cheese Cake down to Michael's fest??? I hope I make it down, Mike. I make a mean chocolate pecan pie. - --We should all chip in and fly your crabby neighbors down as well, Ashara! What good is a cult if you can't brainwash the mindless? Isn't she wubwy? John Calimee. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:42:48 +0200 From: "Rodney Steinhofel" Subject: Offer to all Southern Hemisphere Joniphiles Hi all, Kakki has agreed to send me a "master copy" of the latest tape. This is an offer to all living in the Southern Hemisphere, interested in receiving a copy. I am prepared to do the "deed" ........ so if you are interested, mail me privately Rsteinhofel@cmc.gov.za so that in the interim, I can get some idea as to the number of copies I need to make regards Rodney Cape Town South Africa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 05:49:43 EDT From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: Joni jazz I can make decent dubs, no audiophile standards, of Joni Jazz for the first few people that e-mail me. I am not quick, anyone wanting to do serious production I will rush them a copy . Best I can do for now. This hurricane season is getting a little old, coupled with an out of town guest, a brazen burglar in our area (we were spared this time), supporting my traumatized neighbors ( the worm took christianing crosses of her kids), and on call this weekend for hurricane / flood duty. ..I will deliver eventually. NP: weather channel...how interesting! Unlurked and guess I don't have to post on Joni's b'day. later, Maurice ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 03:24:25 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: Joni Covers By Fairport Bob M. wrote: >Another tip o' the Braves cap to John Low, the "Wonder from >Down Under" for these tunes, although if my memory serves he got >them from >Mr. Castle in England, so these songs are circling the >globe... That's very kind of you Bob, but the credit for locating these treasures does indeed lie with the very generous Paul Castle in London. If I remember correctly, I think Paul traded some Joni material he got off you Bob ("The Hissing Demos" ?) to obtain them from someone on the Fairport discussion list. I'm sure if I'm wrong Paul will correct me on this. It is Paul who deserves the "Wonder From London" title!! John (in Sydney). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 04:56:58 PDT From: "Dante LeVally" Subject: Joni Tribute Album? What is the status of the Joni Tribute Album that was talked about a few months ago? Dante LeVally DanVall99@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 08:49:42 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: What ever happened to the listmembers galleries? (njc) In a message dated 10/15/1999 1:19:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ewwtaylor@adelphia.net writes: << Nobody's commented on the self-portrait I painted in High School.... >> I just checked it out and really liked it! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:02:11 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni's Jazz Tapes Surface!! <> As Ed McMahon would say..."You are correct sir". And like I said, almost immediately I got a response to my request, and the kind-hearted branch will get a bonus copy of Fairport Convention's Joni covers as a thank-you. Of course, in *my* case I've been whining about wanting tapes of this show ever since the day after it! Guess it was still me kicking myself for not going to it when I had the chance! Bob NP: World Party, "Love Street" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 06:05:54 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: You were missed NJC Catman Colin, I'm pleased to see you back too, though I'm sorry to hear of your recent troubles. I hope things start to look up soon. Your humour and passion contribute alot to my enjoyment of the list. John (in Sydney). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:12:15 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Kyle Eastwood A singer I accompany said she'll bring me a CD of Kyle Eastwood's in which Joni Mitchell is somehow involved. What's that all about??? DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:17:54 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: NJC Colin, I'm so sorry to hear about your cocker and the troubles you're having with your pets. I don't want to load you up with a bunch of empty platitudes, but I'm sure this is a bad spot you're going through right now - it has to get better. Wishing the best to you and your pets. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 14:31:54 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC Catherine McKay wrote: > Colin, I'm so sorry to hear about your cocker and the troubles you're having > with your pets. > > I don't want to load you up with a bunch of empty platitudes, but I'm sure > this is a bad spot you're going through right now - it has to get better. Thanks Cathy. I don't find your comments empty at all. Life is full of ups and downs. The trick is how we cope with them. My life is blessed. Okay I feel sad about Wallis. It is hard now looking at her and cuddling her and getting my face licked knowing she is so ill and so young. But you know, when I get an animal, i know this is going to happen. This is just happening sooner than expected and of course with her expecting pups, it makes it more difficult. Maybe she will pass on her really good points-like her temperament which is 100%. I just hope she can see it thru. The vet says she will. Right now she shows no signs in her beahviour of being ill tho her glands are all up and her feet have growths on underneath, which is how I noticed something was wrong.One thing i have learned is to let myself feel like shit and not out on a brave front. I have been moping today and am about to go to bed for a nap. No point pretending I feel happy when i don't. Running away from feelings does not help and in fact makes things much worse. One only has to face them down the road. Illness and death are part of life and we deny that at our peril. > > > Wishing the best to you and your pets. > > Catherine (in Toronto) > cateri@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:56:53 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Millenium countdown... (NJC) On Thu, 14 Oct 1999 RMuRocks@aol.com wrote: > > What really pissed me off about her hatchet job of "Simple Twist" was her > re-writing of the words..."People feel it's a crime, all it cost me was a > dime", whatever it was she did, I couldn't believe she changed Dylan's words. > Like Bob Dylan's not a good enough lyricist for her? Well, that's the Folk Process! (Like Pete Seeger's added verse to "Both Sides Now.") Some of my favorite songs are the ones that make me want to rewrite them and write more verses for them. If, as you say, Dylan sang the songs so definitively as to forbid covers, all the more reason she should change them around and keep them alive. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:20:47 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Millenium countdown... (NJC) <> Good point, and well made, David...the major difference is for me anyway that Joni introduces it, they sing together, and most importantly, it's an "added" verse...Pete didn't tinker with Joni's original lyrics, they sang her song, then sang the addition. In Joan's case, she takes the original "People tell me it's a sin To know and feel too much within I still believe she was my twin, But I lost my way (or wing, either one works for me) She was born in spring, but I was born too late..." What a chilling brilliant lyric. For her to change it may be in the folk tradition, but to me it seems a poor substitute. Maybe if I liked her better, I could accept it. After all, Joni doesn't do Paul's letter to the Corinthians verbatim, but I think "Love" is wonderful. Bob The Doors, "Maggie McGill" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:25:16 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Kyle Eastwood David asks: << A singer I accompany said she'll bring me a CD of Kyle Eastwood's in which Joni Mitchell is somehow involved. What's that all about??? DAVID LAHM >> Kyle Eastwood's "From There to Here" is a wonderful CD. I picked it up the day it was released since Joni sings Marvin Gaye's "Trouble Man". There's also a butt load of other musicians and singers that help him out ie Julia Fordham, Diana King,.... I think you'll like it David. Jimmy who is bringing in plants and patio furniture to prepare for Hurricane Irene ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:51:51 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: hello again! njc Hello again to the list. My apologies for not writing lately, I've been busy with doctor appt's since my arthritis diagnosis. (On top of a busy real estate market, a husband and a 15 month-old little girl, it doesn't leave much time for play!) Feeling great, and wanted to thank the group for all of the supportive letters I got. You are a wonderful group of people. Love, Jenny from CT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:05:50 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Millenium countdown... (NJC) On Fri, 15 Oct 1999 Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > What a chilling brilliant lyric. For her to change it may be in the folk > tradition, but to me it seems a poor substitute. For me, it's not about comparing the two versions (neither of which I've heard); rather, it's about Joan's putting her own stamp on the song -- taking an active (instead of passive) role as a singer/performer - -- even if her final product is judged inferior to Dylan's. I feel like her individuality, and that process, are even more important to me than the final product as such. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:20:16 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Bob Dylan on Dharma NJC (now SJC) Jamie, talking about Joni and "Northern Exposure" says: "this is the one show i think i could see joni on as even a regular coming and going, maybe do a song every so often... A regular spot in which we could all see Joni do her bits and all the time, people going,'Oh that's what she sounds like now... I wish she would sing Big Yellow Taxi!' ;-D Naaah - make her do "Chelsea Morning"! ;-D Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:23:51 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Kyle Eastwood David asked: "A singer I accompany said she'll bring me a CD of Kyle Eastwood's in which Joni Mitchell is somehow involved. What's that all about?" It's Kyle Eastwood's CD - I think it's called "From here to there", or maybe "Here and There", whatever, it's the only one he's got as far as I know, or at least, if there are others, it's the most recent (as usual I can never get my names straight.) Anyhoo, she sings "Trouble Man" - it is fabulous! I crank it up full-blast! Great arrangement, the whole thing is great. The rest of the CD, sans Joni, is no slouch either! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:52:11 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: MatthewNJC Colin said: "I agree with the person who wrote about not wanting to be tolerated. I hear the word tolerance most often from those whose belief is that homosexuals are inherently sinful." I guess that all depends on how people define "tolerance". Like many other words, it has often been adapted, perhaps perverted, to mean what certain people want it to mean. At its best, tolerance means accepting others as they are; live and let live (but really meaning it!) Unfortunately, many people take it to mean "Well, I'll put up with you as long as you stay away from me and my family and don't try to impose your ideas on me". Which is not, IMO, what tolerance means. That's just their polite (haha) way of telling you to f* off and do your thing as long as it's not in their face. I suppose if you wanted to really test people, you might want to ask them: "Yes, but would you let your son/daughter marry one?" (then stand well back! or run like hell!) Colin also said: "i love you but hate your sin' is how it goes." You're right on there. How many times have you heard that said? I'm sure the Spanish inquisitioners said the same to their "heretics", before consigning them to the flames. Jeez, that's a comfort, isn't it? I guess people should just ask themselves, "What am I so afraid of?" but that would be assuming they've got some degree of introspection, self-analysis, that they're able to question the status quo and say, "Hmm, why do we do things that way anyway?" Alas, it seems most people don't have that capability. Everywhere in the world, there are people trying to impose their will on others by using terrorism and justifying it with quotes from their holy books (but only the sections that suit their purposes! Leviticus - what a grouch!!) - the Talaban in Afghanistan; the fundamentalists of *any* stripe, whether they're Christian, Muslim, Jewish or whatever, the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis, Aryan supremacists, whatever. Thugs, all of them, and not a brain to the lot of them. Just my looney's worth on a fine autumn day. (The leaves are electric!) Catherine (in Trawna) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:28:27 -0400 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Doc Watson (NJC) Susan McNamara sem8@cornell.edu wrote (as one of her 'immediate buys') >Doc Watson What a great choice! As a teenager in the 60s I had a 'Live at the Newport Folk Festival' album with two tracks by Doc Watson - 'Goin' Down That Road' and 'Blueridge Mountain Blues'. I still sing those two songs today - I probably don't sound very authentic but I just love trying to get that high lonesome bluegrass sound. My impression is that Doc is hugely revered by guitarists throughout the world, certainly here in the UK. Another player, Steve Kauffman, has a great video instruction tape on 'flatpicking' which I've been studying recently. He sounds like a lovely player, too, although I've not heard any of his albums. Steve Dulson has a really great Doc Watson story - I hope he'll tell it to the list sometime. Steve is what us flatpickin' wannabes would call "a lucky sod!" My best to everyone. Paul Castle pdcmusic@freeuk.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:55:47 EDT From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Hello everyone (finally) Hello my dearest JMDLers, I've been a "lurker" for way too long now. I've recently come back from a two month computer hiatus (marriage, honeymoon, moving to DC and stuff). I'v hooked up to the 'net, immediately found all my favorite Joni haunts and quickly resubscribed to onlyjonidigest...just to say hello and start a conversation (about whatever) that should have been had 6 months ago.... First off, how did Ahara's party go? I was traveling through eastern Mass. at the exact time it was all going on but I was with my wonderful new wife and we were on a mission of the utmost joy and importance. I sent some loving vibes that-a-way knowing for sure that they would be well received. Secondly, I've just bought myself a dulcimer and have learned all of the "Hits" and "Misses" tunes and am desperate to (A) Find the music to "All I Want" and (B) any other tune on this beautiful instrument (as a veteran guitar player I highly recomend the dulcimer to almost anyone - it's soooo easy to learn when compared to other stringed instruments). Does anyone out there have a lead on this? I have been saving some of my favorite bits and pieces from the JMDL and am slowly but surely creating my version of the "Jimdle Vision." I am also a huge Tom Waits, John Lennon, Firesign Theatre, Frank Zappa and Captain Beefheart fan but Joni Mitchell and the shared experience here on the discussion list is the most accessible and still the most artistically uncompromising experience in all of my eclectic tastes. As a painter, photographer and collage artist I am always looking to other artists for insight and outlook that is untainted by the mainstream. For me, a true "artist" is anyone/thing that gets on with their own visions and is not swayed by commercialism or public opinion. The end "product" is one that reflects the soul that is experiencing it (as has been said several times in this discussion list, our culture so often wants to blame the creator for what we see in their work - mistaking the messenger for the message and therefore miss the message or get offended by what the art brings out in ourselves). Joni's work is an ever changing reflecting pool that, over the years, I have been able to return to, again and again, and find something new about myself and my environment. For instance, I have just recently firgured out how to play, perhaps my favorite of all Joni tunes, "Hejira." When I first heard the album and this song back in the fall of 1990 I couldn't hear any of the lyrics; they just washed over and through me. For two weeks I would play this album and paint and paint (I was at an art college in Exeter, England having the time of my life) and I finally went over to the boom box and made myself sit and listen to the lyrics and they absolutely blew me away! And, still, I could only get snippets of Joni's whole picture. Between friends we would sit and meditate on individual lines from the title track and ooh and aahh 'till the break of dawn. I can still remember when I found out what the title meant: Moses' flight out of Egypt - to exodus without guilt - to turn around, change plans and set a new course without regret (the title says so much and really not only encapsulates the song but also the whole album - you go Joni!). Well, I traveled in 1000 more vehicles and sat in 1000 more cafes untill the "Misses" book came out ("Hits is cool and all but this one has the serious meat of Joni's palette, I might venture to say). I tuned my poor guitar into yet another bizzare tuning and slowly but surely the tune washed of me again. Here it is, almost ten years later and I can play the song, remember and sing all of the lyrics and even though I play it every day if not every other I find a particular nuance to a phrase or verse that has emmediate relevance to what I'm going through emotionally, physically or psychically at the moment. Yes, dear friends, another bible of sorts and sundries for your dining and dancing pleasure. Am I making my point too clear? Oh Hey! Before I send this off, is there any JMDLers in the DC area? How 'bout a meet 'n' greet? Contact me privately if yer up for that. Well, it's been a real pleasure "delurking." I would like to thank Les, Ashara, Catgirl, Kakki and Simon (who wants to bet money that Simon is really Joni? I think it should be obvious by now. Has anyone ever met the infamous Simon? I'm guessing that Simon knows more than Joni than Joni does...and so the conspiracy begins to unravel;-) ) for their increadible dedication to this list. Of course a very special THANK YOU to the wonderful Wally B. for having the passion and vision to make this all happen in the first place so that we have foum to worship the space around Gaia incarnate...Ms. Joni Mitchell Julian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:04:28 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: MatthewNJC Catherine McKay wrote: > Colin said: "I agree with the person who wrote about not wanting to be > tolerated. I hear the word tolerance most often from those whose belief is > that homosexuals are inherently sinful." > > I guess that all depends on how people define "tolerance". Like many other > words, it has often been adapted, perhaps perverted, to mean what certain > people want it to mean. At its best, tolerance means accepting others as > they are; live and let live (but really meaning it!) Unfortunately, many > people take it to mean "Well, I'll put up with you as long as you stay away > from me and my family and don't try to impose your ideas on me". In this case that hardly works;-) We aren't out to recruit anyone. Not possible anyway. There is no 'homesexual agenda' aprt from the right to be treated the same as anyone else. > Which is > not, IMO, what tolerance means. That's just their polite (haha) way of > telling you to f* off and do your thing as long as it's not in their face. > I suppose if you wanted to really test people, you might want to ask them: > "Yes, but would you let your son/daughter marry one?" (then stand well > back! or run like hell!) Unless the laws change that wouldn't be possible! Mind you to say would you like your son/daughter to be gay, the answer would be 'that is impossible in our familty-we are healthy'. > > > Colin also said: "i love you but hate your sin' is how it goes." You're > right on there. How many times have you heard that said? I'm sure the > Spanish inquisitioners said the same to their "heretics", before consigning > them to the flames. Jeez, that's a comfort, isn't it? Maeks me feel warm and cozy. > > > I guess people should just ask themselves, "What am I so afraid of?" they are afraid of life. > but > that would be assuming they've got some degree of introspection, > self-analysis, that they're able to question the status quo and say, "Hmm, > why do we do things that way anyway?" Alas, it seems most people don't have > that capability. > > Everywhere in the world, there are people trying to impose their will on > others by using terrorism and justifying it with quotes from their holy > books (but only the sections that suit their purposes! Leviticus - what a > grouch!!) - the Talaban in Afghanistan; the fundamentalists of *any* stripe, > whether they're Christian, Muslim, Jewish or whatever, the Ku Klux Klan, > neo-Nazis, Aryan supremacists, whatever. Thugs, all of them, and not a > brain to the lot of them. But they are afraid. They have to believe their 'holy' books otherwise they will burn in Hell. > > > Just my looney's worth on a fine autumn day. (The leaves are electric!) > > Catherine (in Trawna) > cateri@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:37:57 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: The Joni Web Sites Kakki wrote: <<...and I told him that we are connected but that the JMDL also has its own most wonderful site created by Les Irvin. He immediately wanted the web site address and wrote it down in his little black book in his beautifully caligraphic handwriting. I don't think this means he is going to join the list - he indicated that he doesn't belong to any of them because he's too busy - but I'm sure he is going to check us out a bit.>> well, in that case: HIYA, HENRY! ...AND THANKS! :) pat (aka: p.henry) NP: Acapulco - Chuck Mitchell http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:42:41 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: MatthewNJC I said "you might want to ask them: "Yes, but would you let your son/daughter marry one?" (then stand well back! or run like hell!)" And Colin replied: "Unless the laws change that wouldn't be possible! Mind you to say would you like your son/daughter to be gay, the answer would be 'that is impossible in our familty-we are healthy'. I'd love to ask one of my co-worker's families about that. They're originally from small-town Ontario, Dad's an ex-army type, Ken and his brother (and if I'm not mistaken, a third brother as well) are gay. And they're all perfectly healthy! Hmm, maybe it's something in the water? ;) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:54:00 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Pre-release box set Michael mentioned: <> did I miss something??? if the tapes/videos of jonifest are available will somebody PLEASE drop me a line??? pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:19:15 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: NJC Millenium countdown to be six degree'd Bob says: "I don't like Joan Baez. I know lots of folks do, and they can have her...just typing her name is making the hairs on the back of my neck stand up..." Have you ever heard her singing the entire Messiah? Bwa-ha-ha! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:23:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Fwd: Attn: Mac-using Guitar players (NJC) - --- TipWorld wrote: > FretPet > > Beginner > If you are guitar-enabled (meaning you have such an instrument or have > some idea of how such a machine operates) and would like to explore > music through your Mac and a guitar interface, take a look at Scott > Lahteine's $15 shareware program, Fretpet, a musical application that > allows you to create chords, add picking patterns and bass lines, and > generally have a good old time. > > You can find your copy at http://www.macdownload.com. > > ================================================== > > Macworld - the ultimate magazine for Macintosh Professionals. > Subscribe now: > http://www.zdnet.com/zdsubs/macworld/home.html > > For previous tips and all other Macintosh help, please go to: > http://www.macworld.com > > Copyright (c) 1999, Mac Publishing, L.L.C. > > ================================================== > > Subscribe/unsubscribe: > http://www.tipworld.com/macworld/cgi-bin/sub.cgi/macworld/change.html ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:21:45 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Bob Dylan on Dharma NJC (now SJC) Mark said: >I would love to have seen Joni on Northern Exposure. It just seems >that she would have fit right in with the likes of Ed Chigliach and >Chris the dj and Ruthanne the storekeeper and Shelley & Hollin....can >you tell I liked this show and that I miss it Joni would fit right in. I loved that show! (Although it did kinda suck in its last year.) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:41:31 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: NJC: Joan gets a Handel on things Catherine, in a devlish mood, suggests: <> Thanks a lot Cath! Now every hair on my body is standing on end - I look like a dang PORCUPINE!! :~D (At least she'd change the words and get it over with sooner!) Bob NP: XTC, "Great Fire" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:51:15 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: MatthewNJC What a coincidence-my dad was army, had three sons, all three of us are gay. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:06:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: NJC: Joan gets a Handel on things - --- Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > > Just since I'm having so much fun watching Uncle Bob's hair stand up -- I'll twist the knife and suggest Joan singing "Dancing Clown" in the style of Messiah ... I can make you my daa-aa-aaaaa-aa-aa-aa-aaaaaa-aa-aa-aa-aaaaa-a-aaaaa-ancin' clown! Don Rowe (alias Marquis de Sade, alias Larry Klein, alias Chris Gaines ... etc -- etc) ===== Don Rowe "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:56:04 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Hello everyone (finally) Julian said: <> >> Welcome and happy de-lurking Julian! Thanks for a great post!! Jonifest 1999 was simply too wonderful words, but there's a lot of them and pictures too at the JMDL website, so go see what you missed... <> A mission of utmost joy and importance? That's the same reason I went to the Jonifest! :~) Bob NP: XTC, "Jump"(not a Van Halen cover) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:32:21 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: CSN cover of Urge for Going and Joni/Graham stuff Thanks to a new friend from the CSNY list I have been listening to the 4-disc CSN box set and have been having my mind blown. This box set came out in 1991 but I've never heard it until now. There are a number of incredible previously unreleased recordings including the fantastic Hollies-esque Horses Through A Rainstorm, and also alternate mix, previously unreleased versions of their songs, including Woodstock; Suite: Judy Blue Eyes; Helplessly Hoping; You Don't Have To Cry; the Beatles Blackbird, an early demo of Guinnevere and much more, all in the most incredible sound thanks to long-time CSNY recording genius Stephen Barncard. There is also a simple, plaintive and gorgeous previously unreleased of Joni's Urge For Going, which I had no idea they covered. Here are the liner notes from Joel Bernstein: "After a break-up of CSN following the 1970 tour, David and Graham began a project of their own. They were both tremendous admirer's of Joni Mitchell's songwriting, and of course, David had produced her first album. Together they decided to cover 'Urge for Going,' a song Joni had written in Canada in the Spring of 1966. It was intended for the pop singles market, the idea being to record two songs and release a 45. Graham's vocals hark back to his English sixties pop style, and David is playing very clear twelve-string reminiscent of the Byrds. I came to the studio with Graham just in time to witness a heated argument, as a result of which the song was never completed. The next day David went back into the studio and added vocals of his own to present Graham with a semi-finished version of the song as a peace offering. That tape is the only thing that exists of the song and that is what you are listening to now." Interestingly, the placement of Urge for Going on the disc comes right before Graham's I Used to be a King, which is followed by Graham's Simple Man. Graham's liner notes state "The day before the Fillmore East show in June of 1970 I broke up with Joni Mitchell and my whole world fell apart. The afternoon of that show I wrote this song and that evening I performed it live for the first time with Joni sitting in the audience. I don't know how I got through that." This box set is the best thing I've ever heard from the boys. Kakki NP: Nash and Crosby - Urge For Going ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:53:18 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Hello everyone (finally) Hi Julian, Glad you delurked! > Secondly, I've just bought myself a dulcimer and have learned all of the > "Hits" and "Misses" tunes and am desperate to (A) Find the music to "All I > Want" and (B) any other tune on this beautiful instrument (as a veteran > guitar player I highly recomend the dulcimer to almost anyone - it's soooo > easy to learn when compared to other stringed instruments). Does anyone out > there have a lead on this? I'm sure Mr. Dulson would know! And hopefully we will be hearing a duo of you two performing this at the next Jonifest in New Orleans! >Has anyone ever met the infamous Simon? I'm guessing that Simon knows more than Joni than Joni >does...and so the conspiracy begins to unravel;-) ) Yes, there is a real Simon and a number of us have actually had the chance to meet him because you can usually always find him wherever Joni is performing ;-D Kakki NP: Stills and Nash - Stevie Winwood's Dear Mr. Fantasy (eeeeeeee!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:33:17 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Kennedy Does "Urge For Going" Hi there, OK, OK, OK . . . . . I know . . . . . I work for EMI, so I really shouldn't do this, but I think you ought to know : Classic violinist Nigel Kennedy does a beautiful rendition of Joni's "Urge For Going" on his new album, "Classic Kennedy", on which he tries to perfect the three minute song concept. Check it out if you dare! Take care, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:44:20 -0500 From: pattihaskins@mindspring.com Subject: Re: an old new news and Mojo news <> Agreed!!! I LOVED this most interesting post. S., I hope you come back often to mess with our heads and sit us on our butts. ;-) BTW does "smarcaurele" stand for Sassy Mitch Answers Ritualistic Conversations and Ultimately Reminds Elequently: Likewise Evolve? Miles of smiles, Penny>> Hi All, this thread reminds me that in the newish (Oct.) issue of Mojo is the following: "The phrase 'Net Surfing' has blood-chilling connotations for your betusked chum (column writer), but I have recently begun enjoying the ruminations of one of those semi-secret Bob Dylan chat groups after a good friend told me an amazing story.The conversation on this particular site had fallen to speculation about the true meaning of Blowing In The Wind. They'd dismissed the notion that it was about dandelion clocks, nuclear war or toffee wrappers and had settled for two nicely highbrowed options: the song represented either a prediction of the fall of Communism or a metaphor for heroin addiction. Then a dissenting 'voice' joined the thread, saying that both interpretations were wrong and this it was simply a naïve political plea by a young man. "How do you know?" asked the others, sniffily. "Because I'm bob," the chat-roomie replied. This is not uncommon, dickheads are always claiming to be His Bobness so fellow chatters became abusive. The phrase "fuck off" was used. 'Bob' asked what he might do to prove he was indeed who he claimed to be. "Nothing'" came the reply. Then 'Bob' suggested that, at his next gig, he could play Highlands, the 17-minute track that concludes Time Out Of Mind, and which he has never performed live. "Yeah, right'" scoffed the others. But two days later on June 25, at Coors Amphitheater, Chula Vista, California, there it was - for the first time ever, Highlands, fifth song in, and promptly dropped from subsequent shows. Cue sound of Bobheads' jaws smacking the parquet. Hoorah! On the previous page is the article JONI DOES JONI, with pic, saying pretty much what we already know, the album of covers, including these quotes from buzzing insiders, "She's created an absolute masterpiece. This is some of her most powerful work ever". Songs include Stormy Weather, Answer Me, At Long Last Love, A Case of You and "a breathtaking new version of Both Sides Now. Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock and the 70-piece London Symphony Orchestra also feature on the record". Goes on the mention the possible La Scala gig and says "is likely to undertake what her management calls a "select city tour"!!!! next year. Start saving money now. Patti in Dallas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:13:31 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni jazz NJC In a message dated 10/15/1999 6:41:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MP123A321@aol.com writes: << NP: weather channel...how interesting! Unlurked and guess I don't have to post on Joni's b'day. later, Maurice ONLY if you continue with the discussion otherwise you will be expected to talk again on November 7th!!! Sendig you positive energy while the hurricanes are upon you!!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 00:33:40 +0100 From: catman Subject: You've Got Mail I just watched it on video. Joni is mentioned twice. River and Both Sides Now are briefly spoken about. Tom says to Meg he couldn't live with a Joni fan. Phew, I am saved then. Anyway, both these songs were in the music credits even tho they were not heard, just spoken about. Worried about lawyers I guess. Cue for a Joni song? - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:51:38 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: original writings, Joni style A few months ago, I was hit with a quick poem (or lyrical portion) that seemed, at least to me, Joni-esque. I was looking through a photo album and reminiscing of the various stages of my life. Here goes: We look back to see who we used to be you know, it's funny, I've been so many people but I've always been me (maybe it's the "you know, it's funny" part that most reminds me of her lyrics or just the introverted self-examining idea, but I thought it wasn't bad!) - -Jenny from CT with a little extra time today! ;-)))) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:03:06 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Springsteen: NJC Has anyone seen this latest incarnation of the 2nd best rock band in the world? BTW, I like the new McCartney "Run Devil Run"! It rocks. Life is good. - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** Tolerance, tolerance, tol... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:05:06 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC: Looking for CSNY tour venues/dates Can't some one help me? For the love of God, won't somebody help me? - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** Tolerance, tolerance, tol... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:17:07 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Springsteen: NJC In a message dated 10/15/1999 8:02:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << BTW, I like the new McCartney "Run Devil Run"! It rocks. Life is good. >> I just got this and can't wait to play it. I've always hoped that Paul would put out a real rocker of an album. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:29:52 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Hits & Misses video pro Travis found the following: http://www.vidnet.com/cgi-bin/new/lst.pl?A-Z Go to the pulldown menu & select 'Joni Mitchell - Behind the Scenes' and if you have Real Player it will launch a streaming video of a promo for Hits & Misses. It's mostly Joni talking with a short sequence of her sitting above a sea coast playing guitar to Magdalene Laundries. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 17:48:01 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Millenium countdown... (NJC) > > < "Both Sides Now.")>> > > Good point, and well made, David...the major difference is for me anyway > that Joni introduces it, they sing together, and most importantly, it's an > "added" verse...Pete didn't tinker with Joni's original lyrics, they sang > her song, then sang the addition. In Joan's case, she takes the original > > "People tell me it's a sin > To know and feel too much within > I still believe she was my twin, > But I lost my way (or wing, either one works for me) > She was born in spring, > but I was born too late..." > > What a chilling brilliant lyric. For her to change it may be in the folk > tradition, but to me it seems a poor substitute. Maybe if I liked her > better, I could accept it. After all, Joni doesn't do Paul's letter to the > Corinthians verbatim, but I think "Love" is wonderful. > > Bob Interesting. I've either heard or read Joan say that she sometimes changes lyrics to words that mean more to her personally. Her version of the above that Bob quotes: People tell me it's a crime To feel too much at any one time All it cost me was a dime But the bells refused to ring He was born in the spring But I was born too late Blame it on a simple twist of fate. Works for me, but then Dylan isn't the Holy Bible to me either. Although I like some of his last record I still don't care to hear him sing. I'd rather hear Baez any day. But to each his own! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #462 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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