From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #445 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 5 1999 Volume 04 : Number 445 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC [Scott and Jody ] Re: Millennium countdown (SJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: FTR songbook - paintings and sire of sorrow! [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: The Gospel according to Joni ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: NJC Baroque [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Sire of Sorrow [Scott Price ] Re: Re:Sire of Sorrow ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: CD-R Tree #1 & #2 ["Lance A. Michel" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 23:12:55 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: NJC Vince wrote: > Obviously the Messiah is > something that you fail to appreciate and even you are allowed to have a taste > lapse now and again, > I went to see the Messiah in Milwaukee last year in this beautiful old church. The musicians were all from the Milwaukee symphony. I have to admit, that during intermission, I was tempted not to go back inside. Across the street, amidst the trees and city lights was this skating rink. I just wanted to skate. All these people ice skating in the middle of a city reminded me of an old 40's movie. But, I did go back inside. I will always stay until a show is over regardless, whether it be a concert, play, movie, baseball or the Messiah. I think it boils down to respect and objectivity. View the artist's work in it's entirety, Then if you want to criticize..... About the Messiah, It was too repetitive for me. There is so much repetition, I wanted to scream. Perhaps if Handel's Craftsmen today would cut it down to 1 1/2 hours as opposed to three, many more would appreciate his work. just a thought, jody ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:12:10 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Millennium countdown (SJC) In a message dated 10/4/99 11:34:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zapuppy2@webtv.net writes: << Ah, but that's because they're saving the *most* influential for last! Joni, Bonnie, Aretha, Billie Holiday, Bach, Beethoven, Miles, Gershwin, Elvis, >> Wow. I like Elvis Costello a lot, but I never thought of him as being that influential on other musicians. Maybe I underestimated him. ;>) Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:27:40 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: FTR songbook - paintings and sire of sorrow! In a message dated 10/3/1999 6:50:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MP123A321@aol.com writes: << The song that is most moving to me is The Sire of Sorrow......but I struggle with religion and free will, and had the church crammed down my throat as a child. The song is one of very few I never get tired of hearing. The delivery of the performance seems exceptionally real .... to me. I didn't feel that way about anything onTTT. take care, Maurice >> When I heard that song for the first time I think I cried! It was so amazing!! the vocals in the backround and the words!!! That could be up there with one of my all time favs and at the very least in the top ten! That peice shows just how incredbible she still is!!! Catgirl ps and if you ever look at my profile you will see my fav quotes.....Man is the creator of his own demise ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:29:45 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: The Gospel according to Joni Bob rightfully responded: << I would be interested in seeing how you see DED and Judgement as the essence of the gospels. Isn't Judgement sort of a pep talk she wrote for Ludwig B.? And also, any list of her "gospel" songs HAS to have "Passion Play (When All the Slaves Are Free) on it. >> I can't believe that I left out Passion Play! Thanx for pointing this out, Bob. Re: DED. Much of album/CD addresses the hypocrisy of the self-righteous right. Not that the left has a monopoly on G-d. It's just that so many people who claim to speak for G-d seem to forget: "Judge not lest ye be judged." I should have included There Lives A Wolf In Lindsey which contains this priceless statement: "If you're smart or rich or lucky Maybe you'll beat the laws of man But the inner laws of spirit And the outer laws of nature No man can...." E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 01:01:01 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: NJC Baroque Jody wrote: > > About the Messiah, It was too repetitive for me. There is so much > repetition, I wanted to scream. Perhaps if Handel's Craftsmen today > would cut it down to 1 1/2 hours as opposed to three, many more would > appreciate his work. > > just a thought, > That is the baroque style, and there is art, pure art in the repeated motifs, an art and craft that perhaps (obviously?) fails to move you. That's ok, taste is subjective. I would suggest that most conductors today keep the pace way too slow on baroque, and especially on Messiah, which is supposed to move at a brisk pace. For most Messiah conductors today, I am reminded of the New Yorker's comment on the Met Opera's James Levine: 'Levine has said he would love to conduct Wagner forever, and if his pacing gets any slower, he will achieve his purpose.' It would help if the Christmas portion of Messiah was done alone at Christmas and the Easter portion done alone at Easter; would be less long, more seasonal, and less mixed messages from the patische versions we get today. And any production that goes 2:45 or 3 hours - that conductor has a case of the slows. Not the way it should be done. The original musicians played in cold, drafty palaces with no heat... you think they lingered - or zinged their way through the music? They did not draw it out, they played with passion, verve, and a lot faster pace than we get today. And at least be thankful that Handel mastered and fulfilled baroque as far as it would go so that Hayden and especially Mozart could take from Handel the cue to do something totally new with music. Mozart and Papa Hayden (Mozart's term for Hayden) were deeply indebted to Handel for his great accomplishments which allowed them a base to move onto to new musical ideas. (Mozart wasn't crazy about Handel's operas, but then, Mozart didn't like anyone else's operas except Hayden's.) So in the 17th century there was Bach; in the 18th, Handel, Hayden, Mozart; in the 19th, Verdi, Beethoven, Wagner, and in the 20th, Gershwin, the Beatles, and Joni. (the Rev) Vince, who is personally finished with this thread by popular demand ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 22:34:55 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow At 06:11 PM 10/4/99 -0700, Mark in Seattle wrote: >To me this is taking a leap that is not in the song. >There is no acceptance or peace made with God or anything. >There is just pain and anger and despair. Ahh, but Mark, my friend...do you believe that Joni would leave the listener with no hope at all? Has she given up? Has she not been able to resolve, at least to a "liveable" level, all this frustration? Given her history, her unique ability to express what we feel deep inside ourselves, and her skill at analyzing and commemorating these emotions, I've always believed that no matter what, she still gives us hope...*always* gives us hope. An innocent viewpoint perhaps but one that I cling to. And by doing so, I (personally) find "Job's Sad Song" neither depressing nor uplifting, instead seeing it as a dramatic examination of one's inner questions. Scott, who loves to "leap" at Joni's songs :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 01:41:29 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Re:Sire of Sorrow Phyliss commented on my statement: >> I find The Sire Of Sorrow very uplifting. << Questioning: >>> I love this song now but at first I had a hard time listening to it because it was so "down". Please, tell me how you find it "uplifting"! <<< Tough question, Phyliss, but the more I think about it, what I most love about Joni is her ability to transform ugliness into a work of beauty. Why do I absolutely LOVE songs like Down To You, Slouching Towards Bethlehem & Otis & Marlena? It must be because Joni takes such disturbing subjects & makes them into a work of art. Recently Not To Blame made me realize that I need to disassociate myself from a close friend who beats up his girlfriend (even though she goes back for more). This certainly does not make me happy but it is nonetheless very liberating. Hope this helps you understand where I'm coming from. E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 22:54:41 -0800 From: "Lance A. Michel" Subject: Re: CD-R Tree #1 & #2 Howdy Folks, Can anyone point me in the direction of the detailed info. for Tree #1 (souce info, generations, and venue & tracklisting); also, has the structure for #2 been posted yet? Thanks in advance.....Hope y'all are well...........L8R As Always.....Peas & Dub......Sir Lance - -- Lance A. Michel: - -There are as many shades to reality as there are windows unto the soul- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #445 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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