From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #442 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Sunday, October 3 1999 Volume 04 : Number 442 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- re: double jeopardy (njc) [Robert Holliston ] New To the List ... NJC ["John Low" ] Re: The sustenance of Joni ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Re: The sustenance of Joni ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Re: Speechless ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: joni political songs [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Joni Tribute [Ginamu@aol.com] re: Joni album covers and other list stuff [Brian Gross ] RE: The sustenance of Joni ["Wally Kairuz" ] Tribute Album news! (SJC) ["Jerome Gonzales" ] Nevilles Shoot W54thSt. (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Delurking ["Russell Bowden" ] Re: Delurking ["Kakki" ] NJC Caring for Jennifer [Vince Lavieri ] NJC double jeopardy (bs) [Vince Lavieri ] RE: Delurking ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: NJC double jeopardy (bs) ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC double jeopardy (bs) ["Kakki" ] Double Jeopardy and new Tori Amos VLJC [RMuRocks@aol.com] do I owe you a Michelle Shocked CD? ["James A. Murray" Subject: re: double jeopardy (njc) As far as I understand it, the time and place are components of the original crime. Therefore, a person can be tried for a crime six years after and two thousand miles from the first offence. That the victim is one and the same person is irrelevant. This film sounds like a total wank to me ;-) roberto, who plans not to see this particular flick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 02:25:21 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: New To the List ... NJC G'day Chris, It's nice to be able to welome a fellow Aussie to the JMDL! In an article in today's 'Sydney Morning Herald' titled "Hold On To Your Stetson - Ziggy's Gone To Nashville" I learnt that you were born in Brisbane. The author of the article went on to explain that you (or at least your alter ego Mr Brooks) are "a man prepared to test the rules that for 50 years have been, in Joni Mitchell's words, 'stoking the star making machinery behind the popular song'" Good on you mate, hope to hear more from you. John (in Sydney). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:53:46 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Re: The sustenance of Joni Wow, Bob, you must have read my mind! Last night was one of those when I physically needed to sit down with a few drinks and absorb some Joni. I actually felt like Hejira was some kind of spiritual medicine to help me cope with life. Yesterday, I was diagnosed with a rare form of arthritis that is more degenerative and debilitating than rheumatoid. I'm now 26, I fear that I will not be able to carry out simple tasks by the time I'm in my late 30's or early 40's. That's just too young to not be able to feed yourself! Anyway, being pretty depressed, I popped in Hejira and just sat, with a beer and a candle burning and all the lights in the house off. When the song Robert Mayton wrote: > > As I have felt so many times in the last 20 odd years, there are days > when the banality and absurdity of life gains the upper hand, and > nothing seems to get me out of this funk and put things back into > perspective more than sitting alone with a drink or three and listening > to a few Joni albums and really LISTENING to the lyrics- this woman is > so astonishgly brilliant that the depth of her lyrics never fail to > astound (and uplift) me. I really feel that she has brought me out of > moods of despair more times than I can count. What a godsend she is > to complex, intelligent citizens of the latter 20th century! Though > she hasn't been a "mainstream" recording artist for many years, I > respect her tenacity in continuing to produce beautiful lyrics and music > that sustain me and others in the rigororous process known as "life". We > love you, Joni, and I' m a lifelong fan. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 09:02:47 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Re: The sustenance of Joni Bob, you are a mindreader! Yesterday was, for me, one such day as you described so perfectly. I was diagnosed with a rare form of arthritis that is more degenerative and debilitating than rheumatoid. I'm only 26, and am told that by the time I'm in my late 30's or early 40's, I may not be able to carry out simple tasks such as feeding myself, buttoning clothing, or writing. Naturally, I was depressed by this news and felt a physical need to nurture myself with Hejira last night. So, the lights went out, the candle was lit, and Joni was there to cradle me. When the song "Hejira" came on, I actually blew out the candle and lay down on the couch all wrapped up in a blanket and was lulled into a beautiful sleep by Joni's tender voice. She is a godsend! - -Jenny from CT Robert Mayton wrote: > > As I have felt so many times in the last 20 odd years, there are days > when the banality and absurdity of life gains the upper hand, and > nothing seems to get me out of this funk and put things back into > perspective more than sitting alone with a drink or three and listening > to a few Joni albums and really LISTENING to the lyrics- this woman is > so astonishgly brilliant that the depth of her lyrics never fail to > astound (and uplift) me. I really feel that she has brought me out of > moods of despair more times than I can count. What a godsend she is > to complex, intelligent citizens of the latter 20th century! Though > she hasn't been a "mainstream" recording artist for many years, I > respect her tenacity in continuing to produce beautiful lyrics and music > that sustain me and others in the rigororous process known as "life". We > love you, Joni, and I' m a lifelong fan. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:25:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Speechless That turned out to be Two Gray Rooms. I think Joni really loves this song because she speaks of it in at least two conversations and lists it along with her 10 12 BBC list. Jerry On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, Michael Paz wrote: > Hey Bob- > What is the song Speechless that she talks about in the Chalkmark > Interview? Do you know what I mean? She was talking about being > emotional in the studio when the boys were acting like boys... > > Michael > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 09:09:14 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: joni political songs How about California? "They won't give peace a chance, it was just a dream some of us had..."? Mark NP-Dave Matthews/Carlos Santana-John the Revelator At 4:52 PM -0400 10/1/99, Bill Dollinger wrote: >The Z magazine site is located at http://www.zmag.org/songarchive.htm > >Most of the songs listed there are overtly political, and while I see >strong political messages in many of Joni's songs, I'm not sure that >a lot of them would fit in with the spirit of this list. I would be >interested >in what others think who have seen the site. > >Bill ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:29:25 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Tribute It's good to hear from you on the list again, Eric! Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 08:06:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: re: Joni album covers and other list stuff Hi gang, Sorry to be so late on this thread. Things have been absolutely crazy on my end. But there are a couple things I've read on Digest in the past few weeks that I need to add my 2¢ to. 1. For The Roses - the non-photo on the inside panel. Someone said that they finally realized that this piece of art was a horse's back end and tail. LOL. Take another look at it and you'll actually see Judy Collins smelling the roses. 2. The cover photos on Hits and Misses Months and monts ago, someone revealed an interpretation that made sense to me, and has stuck with me. The 2 photos are actually titled "Drop Dead" and "Kiss My Ass", and are both directed at the record industy for all the shit they have given our Lady of the Canyon all these years. And a huge welcome to all the new list members and to all the recent de-lurkers. I would urge all the rest of you lurkers out there (yes, all 300+ of you) to at least introduce yourself to the rest of the family here. C'mon, you can do it! We won't bite ;-) And the rest of you, why don't you send Les a photo so he can add it to the JMDL Gallery if yours is not already posted there. Putting faces together with email addresses is the next best thing to meeting list members in person. Take care everyone. Brian (in South Jersey) ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 13:18:30 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC Welcome back ET! Eric, welcome back to the JMDL! We have missed you! (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 14:26:26 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: The sustenance of Joni Jennifer, I was so sad to read your news. I'm sure, or at least I pray that new ways to treat your condition will be discovered before long. I admire your courage! and thanks heaven for Joni! my best wishes, WallyK I was diagnosed with a rare form of arthritis > that is more degenerative and debilitating than rheumatoid. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 11:16:00 PDT From: "Jerome Gonzales" Subject: Tribute Album news! (SJC) This is copied directly from Rolling Stone's Random Notes: Until Aerosmith returns to the road, STEVEN TYLER has been filling his time by appearing on tribute albums. According to Julie Larson, executive producer for a JONI MITCHELL tribute, Tyler is set to record a track with with KEITH RICHARDS. Last month, he recorded "Roots, Rock, and Reggae," from Bob Marley's seminal 1976 Rastaman Vibration, for Chant Down Babylon, a new tribute album produced by the superstar's son, Stephen, that's being released in November as a joint venture between Jamaica's Island Records and Def Jam. The Marley disc also features LAURYN HILL on "Turn Your Lights Down Low" . . . (essentially a confirmation of Julie told Wally, right?) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 13:25:30 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Nevilles Shoot W54thSt. (NJC) Hello All- The Neville Brothers are in NYC today to shoot the West 54th Street show. It is a sad day for them as our dear friend a comrade in production and also a former keyboard player with the brothers, Eric Kolb, died early this morning of a heart attack. Eric had been fighting the substance abuse thing for a long time and checked himself out of rehab yesterday and died soon afterwards. Eric was an amazing talent. His programming and computer chops are legendary around here and he was a very talented keyboard player and actually got some of his tunes on the Family Groove album. I know alot of my friends out there that I got into Neville shows across the country probably came in contact with Eric. He was replaced on keyboards by another good friend of mine Michael Goods. Rest in peace bro. Michael Paz NP-To Be Alive(Hep Yadda)-Yes/The Ladder ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 13:16:59 PDT From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: Delurking Trying again. Hello, all, Russ, here, delurking from his new home in the great northwest....My partner (Brent) and I are together after 2 years of trying! Now in Eugene, OR of all places. I relocated from San Francisco, he from Tokyo!!! Made the move (ugh) with the stereo, Joni (CD's and sheet music) right on top with the cat (Cookie). Furiously catching up on the posts and enjoying many of the threads of the last month or so. Some things I need to take care of. 1. Thanks to Ashara for sending me the JM.COM shirt I seem to have won from Jonifest.....WISH I HAD BEEN THERE!!! I have been practicing Joni on the piano (first one I've had in 5 years!!! Playing for 36 years, BTW...do a pretty good Court and Spark) 2. Joni I catch myself singing a lot recently.....Taming the Tiger, Sire of Sorrow, Sunny Sunday, My Secret Place, Moon at the Window. 3. WTRF has always been one of my faves since the first time I heard it. I love Chinese Cafe being 1st for that Jaco-like bass bomb that opens the work. (I always thought that FTR was the odd-sequence one!! 4. Mingus I bought the album the first day it came out in '79. Always liked The Wolf and The Dry Cleaner. Don't own it now, but with that and Clouds my studio collection will be complete. 5. The recently mentioned Boston '83 concert. I was there. If anyone was rude it was the audience. The day was a broiling July Boston muggy opressive one. The common was steaming, the crowd was noisy and not paying much attention to our Queen. She did leave the stage twice ( I was so jazzed to see her I took copious notes!!!) No, really! The first time was about a third of the way through Song for Sharon. She said she couldn't sing to everyone's backs (people were running all around) Later during her one song at the piano (Chinese Cafe) she apologized for the poor sound quality (?) and left again. At this point most of the audience left. Thank God. The faithful began a Jo-ni, Jo-ni chant and kept it up for quite some time. Finally, she came back appearing a few sheets to the wind (she had been drinking a bourbon-colored liquid from a large tumbler) 2 of her crew/band were holding her under each arm. She shook them off, picked up her guitar and proceeded to wipe us all out with an app. 30 minute set all alone on stage. Can I get up off my knees now??? The oddest, yet ultimately the greatest concert experience I have had. (She was wearing what appeared to be a golden brown suede sort of pants suit. She had changed from a black and white number with white beret reminiscent of the Hejira cover. The best album cover ever...imho. Good to be back. Love, Russ NP Corrina, Corrina does anyone love this as much as I do?? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 14:01:40 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Delurking Hi Russell, Happy reconnect to the list! I loved what you related about the Boston '83 concert - it's priceless! You wrote: > Finally, she came back appearing a few sheets to the wind (she had been > drinking a bourbon-colored liquid from a large tumbler) 2 of her crew/band > were holding her under each arm. I'm sure it was just a cold, iced tea and the crew were assisting her up a bit because of the effect of that harsh humidity on her delicate constitution. ;-) >The oddest, yet ultimately the greatest concert experience I have had. > (She was wearing what appeared to be a golden brown suede sort of pants > suit. Suede suit?! No wonder she was faint-headed! She had changed from a black and white number with white beret > reminiscent of the Hejira cover. The best album cover ever...imho. It sounds like a great experience. > NP Corrina, Corrina does anyone love this as much as I do?? Yes, yes, yes Kakki NP: Benoit-Freeman Project with Kenny Loggins - When She Believed in Me ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 18:42:09 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC Caring for Jennifer Tomorrow morning and every morning your names will be in thought and in prayers at our altar... and I also pray that you have some good friends close at hand to vent with... you are stronger and more creative than this so you'll find a way to triumph over it... were in CT are you? I will have some free time next Friday (the 8th) in Hartford; our church council meets this weekend. Can I call you and wish you a personal word of good cheer? (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 19:33:29 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC double jeopardy (bs) the Rev Vince, takes off his clerical collar and sits behind his desk at the law office, where even though a lowly legal assistant, he opines: The elements of a crime must be identical for jeopardy to attach. Jeopardy attaches in a particular case when the jury is sworn. The Information filed in such a case, and the Information is a legal document provided by the prosecutor, would say hubby killed at this date and time and place. If hubby turns out to be alive, wife has recourse in false arrest/imprisonment action depending on state law, or possible recourse to federal law if a federal claim can be substantiated. Suffice to say most states would offer a nice dollar package for the inconvenience of wrongly imprisoned. Should wifey kill hubby after being released from prison, the Information will allege a totally different set of circumstances. If wifey was acquitted of the first charge based on the information filed in that case, she can never be charged again even if later found evidence says she did it and the dead body were found. (Should OJ confess or a video tape surface showing his killing the two, he could never be retried, for has been acquitted.) But if wifey was convicted of first crime, serves and completes her sentence, she can easily be convicted of killing hubby a second time based on the new facts alleged in the second Information. Hubby being presumed the first time but dead for sure this second time would add a whole wham bam on motive that I would be loathe to assist a lawyer in defending. And now she is a repeat offender for sentencing purposes. It would be most likely that the first charge/conviction will ever be dismissed as it would have been had she not killed husband the second time, so hubby is dead and wifey is in deep, deep jail time (or a death sentence if she is doing this outside of Michigan or any of the other few no-death penalty states). Sorry. The movie premise is from the same school that gives us soap opera law (which sucks even in my favorite All My Children) and the dismal court room procedure in the movie Philadelphia (I movie I wanted to love until court room practices were toyed with to suit the cinematic purposes). The legal premise of this Double Jeopardy movies is not palatable, in my opinion. (the Rev) Vince, a minister by night but by day, a mild mannered legal assistant and member of the Michigan State Bar, who also is on a list for the State Appellate Defenders Office for Michigan, which is a whole lot less fun than the JMDL. Actually, anything Joni Mitchell is LES FUN (tip o' the hat to Les...) and WALLY to Wall fun at that! and anything else is less fun, and I am done with my barely witty remarks, but it gives a moment to say, thanks are never given enough, Les and Wally, at least from me. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 20:40:09 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Delurking hi russ!!!! good to hear from you. i too love corrina, mainly because i think that it must have been one of the first things that joni recorded with klein, and it makes me feel very romantic... keep the posts coming and don't you dare miss jonifest 2000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wallyk > Russ > > NP Corrina, Corrina does anyone love this as much as I do?? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 16:39:43 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC double jeopardy (bs) Brilliant, Rev, and thank you for explaining all this! A few other thoughts I have pondered (with the disclaimer of not having seen the movie) are: 1. The initial premise of her being convicted of murder without a body or other hard evidence being found is a highly unlikely scenario from the outset in real life. 2. You wrote: >(Should OJ confess or a video tape surface showing his killing the two, he could > never be retried, for has been acquitted.) I'm unsure about this - what about the many murder trials of Dr. Jeffrey McDonald? (who actually treated me back in 1978 in the emergency room when I broke my tailbone roller-skating - eek!) In addition, as we saw in the O.J. case, one could still be tried in a civil action, and be found "liable" for the murder(s). > But if wifey was convicted of first crime, serves and completes her > sentence, she can easily be convicted of killing hubby a second time > based on the new facts alleged in the second Information. Hubby being > presumed the first time but dead for sure this second time would add a > whole wham bam on motive that I would be loathe to assist a lawyer in > defending. And now she is a repeat offender for sentencing purposes. > It would be most likely that the first charge/conviction will ever be > dismissed as it would have been had she not killed husband the second > time, so hubby is dead and wifey is in deep, deep jail time (or a death > sentence if she is doing this outside of Michigan or any of the other > few no-death penalty states). In real life this would all be a definitely interesting legal dilemma. The bottom line is that legally one really can't get away with murder so easily, despite what the big screen may present in a catchy story. Our legal system does begin and end with words set forth in a code book. If it did, there would be no need for judges (who assist in interpreting the law) juries (who interpret and weigh the facts), prosecutors and defense attorneys. The written law is always applied to the individual facts of a particular case. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 16:49:29 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NJC double jeopardy (bs) It's a very good thing I am not a legal secretary/typist or have a Bar license ;-) I wrote: > Our legal system does begin and end with words set forth in a code book. > If the Court so please, I must amend my prior statement to "it *doesn't* begin and end....blah, blah, blah" Kakki, off to a parti at Les Deux Cafes tonight ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 22:23:42 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Double Jeopardy and new Tori Amos VLJC Hey gang, Since you've been discussing this movie, I thought I'd post a tidbit from my favorite movie reviewer MArk Ramsey: ************** October 2, 1999 "I'll take contrived and far-fetched plots for one-hundred, Alex." Judd-clan black sheep Ashley puts the "imp" in "implausible" in Double Jeopardy, the latest from that fine director Bruce Beresford, maker of Driving Miss Daisy and the more recent epic Good Work is Hard to Find in Hollywood Nowadays. ************************* Read the whole thing at: http://www.moviejuice.com/1999/doublejeopardy.htm On another note, the new RS review of Tori Amos' latest "To Venus and Back" gives it 4 stars and says 'The reigning queen of piano shows off her both sides now'. Sounds like a challenge Joni! Sit down at that keyboard and show them that YOU'RE still the queen of all!! On yet ANOTHER note, a huge big thanks to all who sent e-mail, cards, virtual bouquets, poems, joni lyrics, philosophy to my son on his birthday! It was very moving, I wasn't surprised by the response because I know I can count on you all but I was very touched by the extra mile that you covered. You guys rule! Bob NP: Radiohead, "No Surprises" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 23:36:06 -0500 From: "James A. Murray" Subject: do I owe you a Michelle Shocked CD? Greetings listers, A while ago some nice person on the list made me a copy of the AT&T torch song CD, and I promised them (her?) a CD in exchange when I got my CD burner. Well, I have the CD ready to go if someone would please jog my memory. I've settled in my third state in as many years, and it's hard to keep everything straight when one moves so much. booga! jimbo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 01:05:47 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni album covers and other list stuff In a message dated 10/2/1999 11:00:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, BrianGross@rocketmail.com writes: << 1. For The Roses - the non-photo on the inside panel. Someone said that they finally realized that this piece of art was a horse's back end and tail. LOL. Take another look at it and you'll actually see Judy Collins smelling the roses. >> I was refering to the front cover of FTR. It is a horse and his butt. That is what for the roses mean. HORSE S**T!!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 01:07:31 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni album covers and other list stuff In a message dated 10/2/1999 11:00:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, BrianGross@rocketmail.com writes: << 1. For The Roses - the non-photo on the inside panel. Someone said that they finally realized that this piece of art was a horse's back end and tail. LOL. Take another look at it and you'll actually see Judy Collins smelling the roses. >> ALSO, I meant the songbook! OPPS Catgirl ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #442 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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