From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #428 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, September 24 1999 Volume 04 : Number 428 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- american beauty (njc) [jan gyn ] Re: **Keith Davis**??? (NJC) [Ginamu@aol.com] Ray's Dad's Cadillac [Martin Giles ] Re: Here we go again..... [Martin Giles ] Re: **Keith Davis**??? (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Ray's Dad's Cadillac [Don Rowe ] Re: SIQUOMB ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Harry's House [David Wright ] Re: Ray's Dad's Cadillac ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Harry's House ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: TAPE TREE (NJC?) [mr_lovesaint@webtv.net] Re: Harry's House [David Wright ] Harry's House/Centerpiece [evian ] RE: Harry's House ["Brett Code" ] Re: Harry's House [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Here we go again..... [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Harry's House [IVPAUL42@aol.com] RE: Harry's House ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Bette Midler (NJC) side-comments etc. [catman ] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... absolutely NJC [catman ] Harry's House [Medric Faulkner ] hissing demos, BYT, woodstock and dreamland [catman ] Re: Harry's House & HOSL [David Wright ] Re: Harry's House [catman ] Re: Mosquitoes (NJC) [RickieLee1@aol.com] artists songs for children (NJC) [mr_lovesaint@webtv.net] Re: Joni Sleeves (Mingus) [Ginamu@aol.com] The CMA Show ... anybody care? (NJC) [pattihaskins@mindspring.com] Re: hissing demos, BYT, woodstock and dreamland [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Joni Sleeves [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... absolutely NJC [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Harry's House & HOSL [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Songs about kids (NJC) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Best album covers ever (now NJC) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: James Taylor song & Joni? ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: The CMA Show ... anybody care? (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: HELLO JMDLs ["Mark or Travis" ] Donald Freed Epic & Me...... Trilogy of a relationship ["Happy The Man" <] Re: The CMA Show ... anybody care? (NJC) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: HELLO JMDLs [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Harry's House & HOSL ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Harry's House & HOSL [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Harry's House/ Centerpiece ["Mark or Travis" ] for the roses repair (NJC) ["William C. Burnworth" ] Re: Harry's House/ Centerpiece [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Harry's House & HOSL [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Harry's House/ Centerpiece ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: david's mother NJC [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Artist's songs for their children NJC [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Bette Midler (NJC) [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Harry's House & HOSL ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Artist's songs for their children NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Let's run away (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Donald Freed Epic & Me...... Trilogy of a relationship ["Helen M. Adc] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:14:19 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: american beauty (njc) For jaw dropping acting performances see 'American Beauty' starring Kevin Spacey and Annette Bening. They so totally inhabit their characters they make me feel like a burned out shell (which i am). - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:35:41 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: **Keith Davis**??? (NJC) In a message dated 9/22/99 10:55:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, steve@psitech.com writes: << *Keith Davis**??? Oh, Gina, for shame! :) How could you mess that up - it was Ray Davies, St. Ray to you. One of the best songwriters on the planet. I hereby sentence you to sing "Waterloo Sunset" continuously, all day, in your head.... "But I doooooon't feel afraaaaaaaid...." >> Oh, that doesn't sound like such bad punishment, though I haven't started my sentence yet! Ray has a brother who played with The Kinks, right? I thougt it was that brother she had the kid with but he's Dave Davies. So where the heck did I come up with Keith?? Seems someone else didn't know which McGarrigle Loudon had Rufus with. I guess "it's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world, 'cept for Lola". :} L-O-L-A, Lola, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:24:22 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: Ray's Dad's Cadillac Marian The first time I heard Ray's Dad's Cadillac, I thought it was a song about levitation! A belated Happy Birthday... Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:19:57 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: Re: Here we go again..... IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/22/99 8:31:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > mlg@ukonline.co.uk writes: > > << My Mum (who is a great Joni fan) told me at the weekend that she always > imagined Joni and companions at the Chinese Cafe playing Mah Jong... > > Down at the Chinese Cafe > We'd be spittin' on our dice... > > Except that the pieces in mah jong are called "tiles," not dice. > > Paul I Paul And the things you roll to decide the who is Wind of the Round and where to make the Golden Wall are dice. Not tiles. Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:49:48 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Re: **Keith Davis**??? (NJC) Gina wrote: >Ray has a brother who played with The Kinks, right? I thougt it was that >brother she had the kid with but he's Dave Davies. So where the heck did I >come up with Keith?? Seems someone else didn't know which McGarrigle Loudon >had Rufus with. Touche', Gina, touche'! :) ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:56:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Ray's Dad's Cadillac - --- Martin Giles wrote: > The first time I heard Ray's Dad's Cadillac, I > thought it was a song > about levitation! Well as they'd say in Catherine's neck of the woods, "Oh ... leave me hangin', eh!?" I'm trying to think of what you could have heard that made you think this. So come on, give it up, the suspense is killin' me! Don Rowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:51:10 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: SIQUOMB Scott says, says he: >"Disappointed?" I've always thought Joni's creation of "SIQUOMB" as >an >acronym... Well, there ya go - I hate them derned acronyms, 'specially when a) I can't remember what they mean and b) it seems that the name was created first to "sound" good, and then the words all the letters stand were forced into position to fit the acronym. (I'm not saying that's what happened here - I do like the sound and look of SIQUOMB - maybe she didn't need the U though. How do you pronounce it? Is it like Seacombe (seekum)? or See-Kwome?) >and a business endeavor was rather ingenious. As we've discussed >here before, this publishing company she created, and named Siquomb, >has >enabled her to fare much better (financially) than many of her >peers who >signed away most or all of their rights to unscrupulous >agents and/or >companies. I agree with you there - and she got away with it too, which is even better! Every now and then, the good guys actually do win! cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:54:43 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Harry's House On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Catherine McKay wrote: > She's getting lonely and the kids are driving > her nuts (ever been stuck at home with the kids all day? Yikes!) I don't > think this woman would have the time to take a lover. But it never says that she has kids. (That line about "paper wives and paper kids" doesn't refer specifically to her.) - --David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:06:34 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Ray's Dad's Cadillac >--- Martin Giles wrote: > > > The first time I heard Ray's Dad's Cadillac, I > > thought it was a song > > about levitation! > And Don said: >Well as they'd say in Catherine's neck of the woods, >"Oh ... leave me hangin', eh!?" I'm trying to think >of what you could have heard that made you think this. > So come on, give it up, the suspense is killin' me! > Well, thank YOU! I didn't get it either, but I was afraid to ask. Good thing one of us is brave. Is it the "Ray" bit, like ... HOLY JUMPIN'! I just got it - "Raise Dad's Cadillac"!!! Grooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:08:35 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Harry's House > > She's getting lonely and the kids are driving > > her nuts (ever been stuck at home with the kids all day? Yikes!) > > I >don't think this woman would have the time to take a lover. (I said, and you said...) >But it never says that she has kids. (That line about "paper wives >and paper kids" doesn't refer specifically to her.) > Then, who is she yelling "Get down offa there?" at while she's asking Harry when he's going to be home? You don't have kids, do you... cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:12:32 -0400 (EDT) From: mr_lovesaint@webtv.net Subject: RE: TAPE TREE (NJC?) i would LOVE any info on tape trees!!!!! Jess ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:42:25 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Harry's House On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Catherine McKay wrote: > Then, who is she yelling "Get down offa there?" at while she's asking Harry > when he's going to be home? You don't have kids, do you... No, I don't. But we had to yell that at the dogs (though Joni, of course, is a cat person) many a time in my family. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:43:41 -0600 From: evian Subject: Harry's House/Centerpiece Don Rowe hit the nail on the head with: > "Harry's House/Centerpiece" has always struck me as > cutting both ways. Like a John Cheever short story, > there aren't a whole lot of sympathetic characters. > Harry and the wife are equally shallow ... she's > caught in House and Gardens ... he's tunnel visioned > on his next promotion. > I have always likened Harry's House/Centerpiece with Cheever. Every time I read Cheever, HOSL enters into my mind. Actually, I taught Cheever's "The Swimmer" last week, and made mention to both HOSL and the movie "The Ice Storm" as further representations of "suburbia in hell". Both Harry and the Wife are unsympathetic, and the "When will you be home, Harry?" seems to me to be the stereotype of the nagging wife yelling at the "Trapped" husband. However, ole hubby is no saint, it works both ways. He longs for the way she looked in school, and wants all the beauty and fun and sex appeal that is now an unrealistic expectation because of the passing of time, the children, the social climbing, etc. He wants things simple like when he was a teenager without forfeiting his social standing or responsibilities. But he can't have it both ways. The song would make a good Judy Blume or Erica Jong novel if taken from the Wife's point of view. Actually, HOSL would make a great movie. Evian, who is kicking himself for not bringing in HOSL to help teach Cheever.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:45:07 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: Harry's House While I agree that she is probably speaking to her children, it could be her dog. I've had to say that more than once to mine, and I've even had to elevate my voice from time to time (and felt guilty about it afterwards). If the gold-digger theme is the right one (to the extent any lyrical exegesis can be right or wrong), it makes a bit of sense that it be a pet, as there are gold-digger wives who won't/don't have children. Brett Catherine wrote: Then, who is she yelling "Get down offa there?" at while she's asking Harry when he's going to be home? You don't have kids, do you... cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:48:34 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Harry's House Catherine replies: << Then, who is she yelling "Get down offa there?" at while she's asking Harry when he's going to be home? You don't have kids, do you... >> One would assume she is talking about kids, but it could be dogs, cats, Ashara's sssssssssssssssnakes, or even a lover. Whatever you'd like to think ;) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:03:22 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Here we go again..... In a message dated 9/23/99 2:40:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mlg@ukonline.co.uk writes: << And the things you roll to decide the who is Wind of the Round and where to make the Golden Wall are dice. Not tiles. Martin. >> Thanks, I apparently forgot that part of mah jongg, or my mom's friends didn't play it that way when I would fill in as a youngster. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:04:36 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Harry's House In a message dated 9/23/99 2:56:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, David.Wright@oberlin.edu writes: << On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Catherine McKay wrote: > She's getting lonely and the kids are driving > her nuts (ever been stuck at home with the kids all day? Yikes!) I don't > think this woman would have the time to take a lover. But it never says that she has kids. (That line about "paper wives and paper kids" doesn't refer specifically to her.) --David >> David, Who is she yelling at to "get down off of that sofa!"? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:26:50 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Harry's House some anal-retentive brat, perhaps? wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: IVPAUL42@aol.com Para: David.Wright@oberlin.edu ; cateri@hotmail.com CC: joni@smoe.org Fecha: Jueves 23 de Septiembre de 1999 14:25 Asunto: Re: Harry's House >In a message dated 9/23/99 2:56:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >David.Wright@oberlin.edu writes: > ><< On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Catherine McKay wrote: > > She's getting lonely and the kids are driving > > her nuts (ever been stuck at home with the kids all day? Yikes!) I don't > > think this woman would have the time to take a lover. > > But it never says that she has kids. (That line about "paper wives > and paper kids" doesn't refer specifically to her.) > > --David >> > >David, > Who is she yelling at to "get down off of that sofa!"? > >Paul I > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:23:13 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Bette Midler (NJC) side-comments etc. I thought Outrageous Fortune was brilliant, tho Ruthless People and the one she did with Lily Tomlin were flat imo. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:26:28 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Diana Ross Arrested NJC I made and make no judgement upon Ms Ross. However, many people, be they white or not, are seached on a regular basis. Many are strip searched which i personally would refuse point blank, no matter what the consequences. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:38:05 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... absolutely NJC Here the full name is tarmacadam and yes we use it generically(?), to mean any road covering(unless it is concrete as are many motorways(freeways)). It is also called bitumen. I think I have only heard Ams using the word asphalt. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:45:03 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Ray's Dad's Cadillac aaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!! Martin Giles wrote: > Marian > > The first time I heard Ray's Dad's Cadillac, I thought it was a song > about levitation! > > A belated Happy Birthday... > > Martin. - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:49:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Medric Faulkner Subject: Harry's House In the mid 70's when everyone else in the dorm was listening to Peter Frampton, I had a better sound system so I tried to drown them out with Harry's House and The Jungle Line. Popularitiy wasn't that impt. to me. I've always thought it was one of her best stories. I thought Brian Blade really colored it nicely on last year's tour. Medric __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:54:06 +0100 From: catman Subject: hissing demos, BYT, woodstock and dreamland Went off to Norwich today to collect Haley from her honeymoon. I listened to the Hissing Demos which I really enjoy. I think her voice on this is the best i have heard it-ever. Even better than on HOSL. I also listened to LOTC. I noticed something on Woodstock I hadn't before-part of the backing singing sound like that on Song for Sharon. On BYT, i had always been confuse as to why she would mention her father in this song-I had assumed her father and left home when she was a kid. On this list i discovered that was not so. So why the line 'took away my old man'. Today it suddenly dawned on me she was taliking about her boyfriend/husband. here, if someone refers to 'my old man' they are referring to their father. I also really like the version of Dreamland on this cd.(the hissing demo's) - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:55:17 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Harry's House you deserve a spanked bottom for that one! LOL!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:00:03 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Harry's House & HOSL Mark in Seattle wrote: > < understanding & compassion for the characters in this song?>> Well, I'll try to tell you why I think that. I think maybe a lot of it has to do with the music -- it (like much of HOSL) has a kind of lazy emotional heat, to me, and the end of the last verse after the Centerpiece part is particularly sultry. And I agree with Don Rowe that the music has a gentleness -- for example, how the edgy, "hard" chords (with that shrill muted trumpet) on the "high fashion girls" et al. parts "soften" into the "skinny black models" part. And Joni's singing (throughout the album, really) is so warm and expressive. So I don't feel like Joni puts an emotional distance between herself and the characters with the music (the way the music of "The Jungle Line," on the other hand, does suggest that distance to me). There are certain details in the lyrics that suggest compassion to me, too, like the line "*lost* in house and gardens." Several aspects of the lyrics interestingly recall other Joni songs for me: for example, the taxi trip in "Harry's House" vs. the taxi trip in "Nathan LaFraneer" (I think Harry is no less conscious of his alienation than Joni is of her own in "Nathan"), or "caught up in the lights and the fishnet windows of Bloomingdale's" vs. "Hejira"'s "in the mirror of a modern bank/from the window of a hotel room," or "the plane sets down/he takes his baggage off the carousel/he takes a taxi into town" vs. "Black Crow"'s "I took the plane to a taxi and the taxi to a train." I don't see Joni as blaming either Harry or the wife for their situation (though it does occur to me that she doesn't give the wife a name like she does Harry). I don't think the wife's a "gold-digger." I think Joni suggests that, for the woman, settling down to make the home while the husband advances up the corporate ladder is kind of the American dream -- something that society *expects* her to do (just as the women in other songs on HOSL, Scarlett for example, struggle with others' expectations of them -- as perhaps Joni has: "Dora says have children..."), that's supposed to be fulfilling. I don't think Harry and his wife are *themselves* unsympathetic or shallow or empty. I think, rather, that they're trapped in a shallow, empty *lifestyle* -- and they feel it. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:03:40 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Harry's House Ooops sorry to all concerned that was supposed to go just to wally. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:13:13 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Mosquitoes (NJC) In a message dated 9/21/99 8:13:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << WallyK wrote: "wallyk, wondering what size new orleans mosquitoes are" Wally- Bring a net (not your fishnets) and a big swatter. They can be huge. They are also known to be able to take HUGE amounts of blood AND alcohol. Very similar to the New Orleans vampires. Michael >> ...which reminds me, am i just an impossibly delicate hothouse flower, or were other party goers left with gaping WOUNDS from the mosquitoes riding shotgun in the skies over ashara's house this past labor day? the ones on my stomach are only just now healing... judging from the number of new navels they tried to chew me, i have one tasty tummy. (served in only the FINEST mosquito restaurants...) not complaining, mind you... peace, Ric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:20:12 -0400 (EDT) From: mr_lovesaint@webtv.net Subject: artists songs for children (NJC) mickey hart of the grateful dead did an album for his son . it's called : music to be born by. he took the sound of hs son's heartbeat ( before the birth ) and various percussion to create a very mellow 70 min tune (the whole album) for his wife to listen to while taro (mickey's son's name) was being born. " in many cultures around the world, music faclitates and plays an important part in life-cycle event. this music was composed to assist mary, taro's mother, in focusing her thoughts and coupling her body and mind with the powerful forces of birth.... (it) provides a regular rhythmic underpinning that permits synchronization with many breathing techniques." they play it together as a family every birthday taro has. what a wonderful thing to do for your family , i think. Jess NP: joni nov 7 1998 atlanta ga (b-day show) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:13:53 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves (Mingus) In a message dated 9/22/99 2:35:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: << Now that you remind me of Mingus though, yeah, people are uncomfortable with both of those albums. But it seems that DED gets easily picked on compared to Mingus, which people at least respect, especially Joni's courageousness in making it, even if there's not much affection or appreciation for it. >> I really like Mingus. It seems a bit forced in places but it had to have been an excruciatingly difficult project to pull off. That's exactly the feel it has: that of a highly ambitious project. My top five favorites: Hejira, DJRD, HoSL, FTR and NRH feel more like labors of love. Those records are just so open to personal interpretation and soul searching. So I agree with Debra about there being less affection though not less appreciation, in my opinion. Still, I play Mingus from beginning to end far more frequently than I do CMIRS and WTRF, where I skip my least favorite songs. Take care, Gina NPIMH: Waterloo Sunset ... Steve Dulson please take note! :} ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:19:32 -0500 From: pattihaskins@mindspring.com Subject: The CMA Show ... anybody care? (NJC) Hey Don and all, Patti in Dallas checking in to say that I've been reading along but way too busy to join in, hopefully will get a break here soon. But Don, back to the subject, what about those Dixie Chicks? You used to live here in their former hometown, at least the Erwin sisters' hometown. Did you ever see their original incarnation? I didn't see the show last night, haven't turned the TV on lately, but anyone that read today's Dallas Morning News knows that the Chicks won big. The Dallas Morning News has a full color picture of the Chicks on the Front Page above the Fold!!! I remember when I moved here to Dallas in 1991. I was working at a copy shop in downtown in the One Main Place building that has a connecting outdoor under street level plaza. They used to have lunchtime concerts there. I saw the Dixie Chicks in their original incarnation, including their cute cowgirl getups and they sang stuff that made my stomach turn. Still do, but I digress. Kind of amazing to see the transformation and the coronation. What a world. Speaking of, I go to the Dallas Museum of Art on Thursday evenings (tonite) for sketching in the galleries and free jazz concerts in the atrium. In the paper this morning I also read that tonite's jazz concert will feature as special guest,......Charo!!!!!!! I'll report in tomorrow. As I said before, what a world. Patti ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:29:11 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: hissing demos, BYT, woodstock and dreamland In a message dated 9/23/1999 4:57:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@apso.screaming.net writes: << On BYT, i had always been confuse as to why she would mention her father in this song-I had assumed her father and left home when she was a kid. >> It's interesting that we've talked so much about Myrtle on this list, but what is her father like? What's her relationship with him now? I don't even know his name! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:30:52 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Bob joked: << < everyone's uncomfortable with.>> > > I would say that Mingus is the true BLACK sheep in the family...DED is more > like a white techno-sheep with a bad perm! :~D >> and Debra replied: Oh, no, no, no, no, I wasn't thinking of a racial thing at all. You know what I meant, although I guess the term "black sheep" needs to be replaced with something else. I know you were making a joke; I just don't find it funny. I think Bob just can't bring himself to forgive Joni for that bad perm, that's all. ; } Take care, Gina NPIMH: Waterloo Sunset.......stiiiiiiiiiiiilllllll ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:34:58 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... absolutely NJC In a message dated 9/23/99 6:48:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << "Not necessarily true. Tarmac is a brand name for a specific type of pavement, a smooth type of asphalt, I think, that is mostly used at airports. Pavement is a generic word for any paved area and, in my experience, is used in the USA for both roads and sidewalks." >> Not to add to this fray, but "pavement" can also be a genetic word for "green lawn" in some parts of New Jersey.... (;-^ MG - you can take the girl out of New Jersey, but she'll always remember the lawns...... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:40:27 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Harry's House & HOSL In a message dated 9/22/99 6:19:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steve@psitech.com writes: << Having a chance to have a good listen to the HOSL demo recordings (thanks to all who were responsible for getting them into our hands). >> How can I get a copy? Don't everybody step up and volunteer at once! Gina P.S. Pleeeeeeeeeese??? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:26:37 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Songs about kids (NJC) In a message dated 9/23/99 11:14:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, steve@psitech.com writes: << Steve Goodman's "Jessie's Jig" is subtitled with the names of all his other kids.... >> This reminded me that Jesse Colin Young wrote a lovely song called Song For Julie, which I think was about his daughter. Gina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:28:21 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Best album covers ever (now NJC) In a message dated 9/23/99 9:36:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << The booklet with Elvis Costello's "All this useless beauty" is just that - useless. You can't read it because the words are printed on top of pictures and there's not enough contrast between the print and what's behind it to be able to read it. And he writes good lyrics, which makes it doubly frustrating. Do you think it's just faulty design techniques, or is it done deliberately as part of a secret conspiracy...? ;) >> I almost posted about this myself!!! I hate that booklet!! Gina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:49:28 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: James Taylor song & Joni? > This might be way off, but I thought I'd pose the question to the group: > > My daughter, a big James Taylor fan, wonders if a song he did on the One > Man Dog album, entitled New Tune, is about Joni. The album came out in > 1972, and the lyrics of the song, a short and haunting melody, are: > > "I see it in the surface of her skin, there's been a baby within; > Given away in love. > I see it in the little lines around her eyes, across her brow-- > She'll be drifting away from me now. " > > What do you think? Could it be about Joni? Wow. I don't think I know this song. It sounds like it certainly could be about Joni. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:18:38 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The CMA Show ... anybody care? (NJC) > You know, even though we have quite a few music sluts > and strumpets on this list, I have this feeling that I > might be the only person who took in the CMA Show last > night. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, of course, so > I'll throw is open and ask ... if you watched it, what > did you think? All I saw was the end of Dolly Parton's acceptance speech for induction into the Country Music Hall of Fame. Long overdue, imo. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:12:11 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Bette Midler (NJC) side-comments etc. On the TV movie 'Gypsy', Jerry has this to say: > I agree with patrick, and I have both the cd and the video. The cd is great to > listen to, but the movie is hard to watch. Bette shows little restraint. and I reply: So what's restrained about Mama Rose?? She's a pushy, driven, overbearing woman. Bette played her to perfection, imo. Jerry continues: The movie with Roz and Natalie Wood is the one to watch, though Angela Lansbury is > the best Mama Rose I've seen. and me again: I've never seen any of the stage versions but the Rosalind Russell/Natalie Wood version has been running a lot on AMC lately. As much as I love Roz, everytime she opens her mouth to sing in this movie the whole thing stops dead in the water and just kind of lays there til she's finished. This is one role where the actor playing it can't fake their way through the singing. Kinda like Lucy in the wretched film of 'Mame' (but poor Lucy was following in the footsteps of *both* Ms. Russell and Ms. Lansbury). Roz didn't have the voice and if she couldn't sing it, she shouldn't have played it imo. I don't think she could have played in the musical 'Mame' either if her singing in Gypsy was any indication. I thought Bette's version had more zip to it overall and, again, I thought she was wonderful. Definitive, even (Merman, Russell, Lansbury, Daly lovers, I'm putting my asbestos suit on now!) Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:51:20 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: hissing demos, njc is there any chance that we'll cd-tree the hissing demos? i'm afraid to play my tape anymore lest it'll become a rice noodle. wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:52:44 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: HELLO JMDLs > Yes I do, I luvya ... Hey Sue! We love you too! Come out & play more often! Mark in Seattle (who misses one of the very first members of this discussion list, Sue McNamara - she was also the first person I ever discussed Joni with online, even *before* there was a JMDL) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:56:24 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Donald Freed Epic & Me...... Trilogy of a relationship MG said: > I think that I especially like the "relationship dilemma" of > "Love Puts." The > first part has them cuddled up with "just the lap of the lake..." My thoughts exactly. You literally start painting the picture: Just the lap of the lake and the firelight" And the lonely loon and the crescent moon I see there feet together up, on top of a table with part of the afghan covering their legs. Fire burning down near the edge of the water with the lip of the moons staring down at a lonely loon. It gives me goosebumps, along with the tears. > You move onto the second verse and the dude is exasperated: "why > aren't you > happy, you make me feel helpless when you get this way!" What can > she say? > She has alligators and she must survive. Yeah, almost why your busy playing around up there I am working my arse off. The beginning of the end if you ask me. > > She injects a bit of an obstacle with the words: "...some bad > dreams, even > love can erase." (being I huge fan of the healing powers of love, > (if you LET > it heal), I disagree with that line vehemently). I have to ponder this for awhile. > > The last part has the physical distance: "I wish you were with > me, the leaves > are electric...." But with these miles, I see her as finally > relaxing a bit > and being able to participate in the wooing dance: "I miss you > touch and your > lips so much, I long for our next embrace...." I am not sure who is saying what at the end there. Does the conversation come back to him. either way your are right awesome song. I am almost sure that Facelift is the first of the series. The "Stay in Touch, but those two could swap easily just because the lines in Stay in Touch seem to be at the beginning. The the old Christmas bonking of Face lift. Then " Loves puts". But I am definitely more partial to the lines in "Stay in Touch" Stay in Touch just reminds me of my lovely wife and my relationship some 19 years ago. I was dating someone who everybody loved but she took a job in Denver and Portland was so far away. So when Cheryl and I started dating it was almost incognito. I had a passion for her that I did not have for Suzie and yet the relationship was scary, in a exciting way. I wanted to believe our relationship was going to be permanent. But the aura of Suzie languished over the campus we were at she was the deep spiritual girl and Cheryl and my relationship was passion, we wanted so much for it to be right: ...So we mustn't rush Still, we're burning brightly Clinging like fire to fuel I'm grinning like a fool... I look back and these words echo our feelings for one another. It burned brightly, clinging like fire to fuel, grinning like fools. ...Part of this is permanent Part of this is passing So we must be loyal and wary Not to give away too much Til we build a firm foundation And empty out old habits Old habits... I could tell you stories, we knew what we wanted but it was going so fast. Suzie showed up two months before our marriage (I am skipping up here) to ask me if I was sure. Loyal and wary. Hours on empty out old habits. I grew up doing things I was not proud of, my wife can look back... My wife was the first women I had not slept with after dating for three months, other then Suzie. It was hard to give up old habits. ...During times like these The wise or influential They can bear the imperfections They can keep the money No doubt about it No doubt that's essential No doubt that's always been a tricky one for me So, we should just surrender Let fate and duty shape us Let light hearts remake us Let the worries hush In the middle of this continent In the middle of our time on Earth We perceive one another Stay in touch We should stay in touch Oh! Stay in touch... All, I can say is God if faithful... Thanks for sharing MG. Cheryl and I 18 years Sunday, she has remade me so many times. So, like you say it is hard to listen to these songs without the tears of our own. Peace, sweet peace, Craig NP: IN MY HEAD (Stay in Touch-with great home movies) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:58:20 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: The CMA Show ... anybody care? (NJC) In a message dated 9/23/99 9:22:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << > You know, even though we have quite a few music sluts > and strumpets on this list, I have this feeling that I > might be the only person who took in the CMA Show last > night. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, of course, so > I'll throw is open and ask ... if you watched it, what > did you think? Mark replied: >>All I saw was the end of Dolly Parton's acceptance speech for induction into the Country Music Hall of Fame. Long overdue, imo. >> Good for Dolly! I think she's wonderful. Gina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:11:51 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: HELLO JMDLs Oh, my goodness!!!!!! That is so coooooooool !!! Made my day! Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:45:19 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Harry's House & HOSL Bob wrote: > That's a neat take on it, I never heard the sarcasm in Joni's vocalization, > just the "prettiness" of it, And I reply: I guess it's mostly in the way she sings 'Baby you're my centerpiece' the first time. She takes that Baaaby up a few notes and draws it out. Then there's something about the way she sings 'center-pee-eece' that makes me think she's mocking the lyric rather than carressing it. It also makes me think of 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns' - the man putting the woman up in that ranch house on a hill - a showcase for his 'centerpiece' or trophy wife. I guess I always thought the two songs were about the same people. Bob explains why he feels the song shows compassion for Harry & wife: Likewise, > if the wife or the husband was cheating, or abusing the other, or something > else, it would be tough to empathize. And I reply: I think there might be an implication that he is cheating or maybe has in the past in the lines about his watching 'those high-fashion girls'. I've also always wondered about the way Joni phrased that last line. Harry is remembering her from those days at the public swimming pool with her shining hair & shining skin. She reeled him in, but why? To tell him *like she did today* just what he could do with his house & his take-home pay. To me this implies that she told him to stick it way back then. Why did she change her mind? Was she teasing him? Playing hard to get? I think this couple wanted status, money, material things & all the outward trappings of respectability. They were the best looking most popular kids in their high school class. Both smart enough to get ahead in the world and both shallow & self-centered enough to be completely unable to sustain a real marriage or nurture a family. Now they're stuck with the mess they've made and don't have any idea of why they aren't happy. But instead, Joni shows us that they > were in love and had a better vision for their lives together, and they got > lost in what society's vision of them was supposed to be, which I think is > a more compassionate take. Geez, I guess I sound like a real hard-ass! That's the way I've always seen this song, though. Thanks to all for your very different takes! Mark in Seattle PS: I also think this song bears a strong resemblance to 'Snakes & Ladders' off of CMIARS and I would say pretty much the same things about the couple in that one. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:50:50 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Harry's House & HOSL In a message dated 9/23/99 10:48:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << That's a neat take on it, I never heard the sarcasm in Joni's vocalization, > just the "prettiness" of it, >> I don't think "Centerpiece" is sarcastic so much as a flashback to a happier time for the woman, who had high expectations for her love and life that have not come to pass. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:52:38 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Harry's House/ Centerpiece > What really captures me about this song is, the > subject matter is so empty, but is presented with such > depth and literary clarity. I don't think too many > people wouldn't tank this song among Joni's finest > lyrically. Those lyrics are set on melodic lines so > gentle, that the music itself serves to lull you into > that same false security generated in the isolated > suburbs of the 1970s. > > Don Rowe Great comments from Don! I think you & I see the song in pretty much the same way. I certainly agree that the lyrics to this one are truly amazing and among Joni's finest. The imagery is rich and beautiful. The yellow schools of Taxi fishes swimming through the city traffic. Harry as Jonah in the ticking whale that is New York City. The helicopter on the Pan Am roof that becomes a dragonfly on a tomb. Paper people papering over their gut reactions. And the list goes on. Truly one of Joni's masterpieces! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:03:13 -0500 From: "William C. Burnworth" Subject: for the roses repair (NJC) Hey Catgirl, I've been cogitating about your loose pages, trying to remember what bookmakers use that's acid fee for adhesive. Then I remembered that rubber cement is actually acid free! Test it on something similar (but not precious) to make sure it doesn't stain. If not, collate your pages, coat them, slip that cover on thenweigh it down for a while. There's probably something more permanent available, and you might want to search bookmaker's adhesives, but I think this will work. Good luck! William np:The Sweetest Punch:Bill Frisell's arrangements of the new songs of Bacharach and Costello ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:05:38 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Harry's House/ Centerpiece In a message dated 9/23/99 10:56:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << Harry as Jonah in the ticking whale that is New York City. >> I thought Jonah in the ticking whale was another taxi reference as Harry is swallowed up by a cab, whose meter makes the ticking sound. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:18:21 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Harry's House & HOSL In a message dated 9/23/99 8:48:28 PM US Central Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << Geez, I guess I sound like a real hard-ass! >> Well...if the ass fits...:~D Just kidding ya Mark, as always I appreciate your insight. There's no right and wrongs with this kind of thing, and the REAL cool thing is now everytime I hear it I'll think back to these discussions and listen for different things, making my appreciation for her music grow all the more! Bob NP: Bruuuuuce, "Loose Ends" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:18:54 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Harry's House/ Centerpiece > << Harry as Jonah in the ticking whale that is New York City. >> > > I thought Jonah in the ticking whale was another taxi reference as Harry is > swallowed up by a cab, whose meter makes the ticking sound. > > Paul I > I hadn't thought of that but it makes perfect sense. I just thought of a whale as something huge - like the city. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:18:42 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: david's mother NJC Wally, this is the busiest time I've ever had in my life and I really can't do justice to your question, to my mother or myself right now. Briefly, I didn't get involved in her kind of music seriously until five years or so after she'd died. That was twenty-five years ago and I am now somewhat a scholar/fanatic on the pop music from the years she was active. I think her reputation is well-earned. I play her songs all the time and it's always a special day when someone gives me one I wasn't familiar with before. As to "what it was like..." well, I honestly have had only one set of parents and I can't compare them to anyone else's: they were who they were. My mother always encouraged me to pursue my talent (though during her lifetime, it was much less focused and directed that in is now.") Her philosophy was "you have to do what you have to do." Vague, yes; but also positive and on the side of self-definition. Sorry, ut that's the most I can say at the moment. DL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:26:27 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Artist's songs for their children NJC I wasn't aware that the Mercers had had children. Certainly I'm not aware of any who are living now. Conversely, I don't remember hearing about their tragically losing a young child, so I'd guess (GUESS) that they had no children. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:28:57 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Bette Midler (NJC) Mark, I'm quite certain you are correct re: the Mercer lyric. It's one of his best songs IMO. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:33:30 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Harry's House & HOSL Bob said: > Well...if the ass fits...:~D > And I was just emailing Ashara that I'm sure everybody knows who those briefs belong to by now and they also know what my waist size is and that I wear cheap underwear! > Just kidding ya Mark, as always I appreciate your insight. There's no right > and wrongs with this kind of thing, and the REAL cool thing is now everytime > I hear it I'll think back to these discussions and listen for different > things, making my appreciation for her music grow all the more! My sentiments exactly, Bob. Ain't this a great place to hang out? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:46:50 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Artist's songs for their children NJC > I wasn't aware that the Mercers had had children. Certainly I'm not aware of > any who are living now. Conversely, I don't remember hearing about their > tragically losing a young child, so I'd guess (GUESS) that they had no > children. LAHM Both the liner notes for 'The Quintessential Billie Holiday - Volume 9' and Donald Clarke's biography of Billie 'Wishing on the Moon' say that Mercer wrote 'Mandy is Two' about his daughter. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:48:15 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: hissing demos, njc In a message dated 09/23/1999 9:53:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@interserver.com.ar writes: << is there any chance that we'll cd-tree the hissing demos? i'm afraid to play my tape anymore lest it'll become a rice noodle. wallyk >> It already is on a CD Tree called CD Tre vol. 1 Catgirl working on CD Tree vol. 2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:34:36 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: James Taylor song & Joni? In a message dated 09/23/1999 3:49:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pmeyer@ibm.net writes: << "I see it in the surface of her skin, there's been a baby within; Given away in love. I see it in the little lines around her eyes, across her brow-- She'll be drifting away from me now. " What do you think? Could it be about Joni? Paul M >> Ohhhh, I think it could definately be Joni. Who else could it be about? Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:43:35 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Jonifest Box Set Wow, I just received 4 tapes today of the music performed at Jonifest and haven't stopped listening since 10 a.m. this morning. The music is absolutely astonishing from everyone who participated. I'm just blown away. This stuff could go directly on a commercial CD. There is not one mis-step among the bunch and every song is gorgeous and magical. Unbelievably amazing. Gotta thank Chuck and Michael big time for all their work in getting this down on tape. And mega thanks to the performers for giving this to us. WOW, oh wow. Kakki NP: Marian - The Wolf That Lives in Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:51:49 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Let's run away (NJC) Hey, can we all get a big old bus like the Cowsills or the Partridge Family and run away together and take traveling Jonifest on the road. I'm ready to go now. Kakki NP: Terry - Electricity ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:13:18 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Donald Freed Epic & Me...... Trilogy of a relationship I thought we'd discussed "Stay In Touch" some time ago, and the general feeling/concensus was that it was about her new-found relationship with Kilauren? Did I miss something? Helen ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #428 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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