From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #427 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, September 23 1999 Volume 04 : Number 427 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni in the tabloids [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Artist's songs for their children NJC ["Paul Castle" ] @webtv.net users (NJC) [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: Donald Freed Epic - TTT relationship cycle songs [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Re[2]: Gram Parsons Tribute On W54th St. (NJC) [MGVal@aol.com] Joni's "idols," was Reply to Gina, and a movie [LLDeMerle ] Re: Joni's "idols," was Reply to Gina, and a movie [LLDeMerle ] Re: DED Interview ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Harry's House & HOSL ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Bette Midler (NJC) side-comments etc. [Jerry Notaro ] Re: songbook with loose pages! HELP! [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Harry's House ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: 2 Best album covers ever NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Re: Reply to Gina, and a movie (SJC) ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Re: James Taylor song & Joni? [TerryM2442@aol.com] Songs about kids (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: James Taylor song & Joni? [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Harry's House & HOSL [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Bette Midler (NJC) side-comments etc. ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Joni Sleeves ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: canadian english NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Joni in the tabloids ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Joni Sleeves [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Artist's songs for their children NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] SIQUOMB [Scott Price ] RE: Harry's House/ Centerpiece ["David Greenspoon" ] RE: HELLO JMDLs [Anne Sandstrom ] RE: Harry's House/ Centerpiece [Don Rowe ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:24:28 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in the tabloids In a message dated 9/22/1999 6:47:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jamie_zubairi@hotmail.com writes: << Someone on the list didn't know about the 'Joni and The Kicking Maid' incident. >> Neither did I so thanks for sharing. And by the way I have this great shirt but can not remember what the anagram means again.... Catgirl the loser!! Siquombe..I promise I will write it 50 times to remember! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:36:15 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Artist's songs for their children NJC Jenaya Dawe Jenaya@playnetwork.com wrote: > Can anyone help me out on songs artists have written >(and recorded for their children?) Catherine beat me to it with my favourite - Bruce Cockburn's 'Little Sea Horse'. How about Rory Block's 'Bonnie Boy' (with David Grisman on mandolin - fab), Bob Dylan's 'Forever Young' (I think) and John Martyn's 'May You Never' (surely). I put the word out on the 'kiddidles' discussion list and Terry Kluytmans, the listmom sent this: "The best one I can think of is Kenny Loggins' "Return to Pooh Corner" album, which he wrote for his son, Cody. http://www.kennyloggins.com/ When my daughter was an infant, she often had extended crying jags. Within minutes, this album would soothe her where everything else had failed. It's the best! (And we still play it frequently just because it's so pretty...) " Anyone else recommend anything for getting the little ones off to sleep? I've been told my own is the perfect cure for insomnia - I'm not sure how to take that!! PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:41:39 -0700 From: pmeyer Subject: James Taylor song & Joni? This might be way off, but I thought I'd pose the question to the group: My daughter, a big James Taylor fan, wonders if a song he did on the One Man Dog album, entitled New Tune, is about Joni. The album came out in 1972, and the lyrics of the song, a short and haunting melody, are: "I see it in the surface of her skin, there's been a baby within; Given away in love. I see it in the little lines around her eyes, across her brow-- She'll be drifting away from me now. " What do you think? Could it be about Joni? Paul M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:10:48 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: @webtv.net users (NJC) For some reason, I am unable to write to people with @webtv.net addresses. This has been going on for some time - tried to write to DavidMarine a few months ago and never could get through. Messages from me are rejected at webtv.net as spam! I don't know how this happened. So Penny, I answered your email, but it got sent back to me. I'm trying to sort out the problem at this end. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:28:22 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Donald Freed Epic - TTT relationship cycle songs In a message dated 9/22/99 7:42:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cjenkins@austin.rr.com writes: << ut the relationships in those are so strong and prevalent that I wonder how much each song speaks of a time in their relationship. Beginning, middle & end. >> When I listen to TTT, those are pretty much the three songs, (along with the light hearted "Crazy Cries"), that I really enjoy. I can tell you that Michael Paz's rendition of "Love Puts On A New Face," had me in tears. It was beautiful, haunting and incredibly poignant. I think that I especially like the "relationship dilemma" of "Love Puts." The first part has them cuddled up with "just the lap of the lake..." It's sweet, but even there, he's losing her. While he is busy with wooing, "You're as young as the night," it seems to me that she is not reflecting a wooing way back at him as much as marveling at being away from business interruptions. I get the feeling that he has to yank her back to romance somehow. You move onto the second verse and the dude is exasperated: "why aren't you happy, you make me feel helpless when you get this way!" What can she say? She has alligators and she must survive. She injects a bit of an obstacle with the words: "...some bad dreams, even love can erase." (being I huge fan of the healing powers of love, (if you LET it heal), I disagree with that line vehemently). To be fair, she tries to soften it with "darling, you can't slay these beasts of prey," instead of "you moron! stop whining about me!" But I think that she's older and, as with all of us, her experiences with life has unfortunately built up some callouses. The last part has the physical distance: "I wish you were with me, the leaves are electric...." But with these miles, I see her as finally relaxing a bit and being able to participate in the wooing dance: "I miss you touch and your lips so much, I long for our next embrace...." Interesting how, (again to me), in the stanzas where they seem to be able to be in the same room, I sense a distance in the woman, but when he is removed from the scene, I sense her relaxing and being able to participate a bit more in romancing the relationship. And yet, within that push-me/pull-me, she ends each stanza with "every day, love puts on a new face." It is a bit of a hopeful statement. But I wonder if it is hopeful with a firm faith in love or is it hopeful with the "someday I'm SURE I'm gonna win the lottery" faith? There are times when I see a "buck up and put your best face forward" sentiment in those words instead of love getting up and facing each day with eager, hopeful and positive expectations. I love this song and one reason is that I am fascinated by the feeling of wanting to sink into love, but just.......not.......able........to........let........it.....all.......go. MG np: "Love Puts on a New Face" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:30:36 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Gram Parsons Tribute On W54th St. (NJC) In a message dated 9/22/99 11:37:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, RAVEN@igc.org writes: << appears that early November is probable in most areas... the schedule for the next two months of Sessions on W54th Street is: >> Thanks so much!! Given that I rarely watch TV, much less read the TV listings, (oh for a satellite dish - then I'm SURE I would partake in all TVland has to offer!!!), I really appreciate this information! Best wishes, MG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:55:14 -0400 From: LLDeMerle Subject: Joni's "idols," was Reply to Gina, and a movie Kakki, Unless I am completely brain dead (which I warn *is* a possibility given this week's events,) apologies for your posts are unnecessary, that is not to say unapPREciated... since when has there been too much sensitivity in the world? :) Anyway, your posts were fine and I like this: >I do think, like Michael pointed out, that if Joni *is* listening, she is >mostly laughing her ass off. At least, I hope she is! ;-D > >Kakki She'd probably think "Twisted and crazy people expendin' alla this energy talkin' about me!" I'm thinkin'...who Joni's "idols" were, if any? Anyone know? LL ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v http://www.angelfire.com/ny/DeMerle/index.html de_merle@iagora.com "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." ~Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:59:56 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's "idols," was Reply to Gina, and a movie In a message dated 9/23/99 4:52:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, de_merle@iagora.com writes: << 'm thinkin'...who Joni's "idols" were, if any? Anyone know? >> Well, Georgia O'Keefe is one, I'm sure! Not only did she admire her work, it seems that Joni also admired the path she carved out for herself. How she seemed to be a fulfilled and contented person without going the "housewife/mother" routine. MG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:13:45 -0400 From: LLDeMerle Subject: Re: James Taylor song & Joni? At 12:41 AM 9/23/99 -0700, Paul wrote: > "I see it in the surface of her skin, there's been a baby within; These are really the words? I have this LP and have loved it for years and years, but I never "caught" that (or if I did, I have since forgotten... ) LL ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v http://www.angelfire.com/ny/DeMerle/index.html de_merle@iagora.com "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." ~Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:15:29 -0400 From: LLDeMerle Subject: Re: Joni's "idols," was Reply to Gina, and a movie Well..that fits. I'm a Beatrice Wood fan, myself.... >Well, Georgia O'Keefe is one, I'm sure! Not only did she admire her work, it >seems that Joni also admired the path she carved out for herself. How she >seemed to be a fulfilled and contented person without going the >"housewife/mother" routine. > >MG LL ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v http://www.angelfire.com/ny/DeMerle/index.html de_merle@iagora.com "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." ~Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:58:57 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Reply to Gina, and a movie I enjoyed your e-mail and agree in many ways with the privacy issue (despite having participated in this thread myself!) I'd like to think that Joni and Kilauren would recognize that everything that was said, IMO anyway, was said with great respect. No one can second-guess anyone, and circumstances alter cases, so what might have happened in one circumstance could have been quite different in another. I think many people identified with the courage of someone making a decision to do what she felt, at the time, was best her her, as well as for her daughter. You wrote: "This was brought home to me in force this weekend when I saw the movie "Hilary and Jackie" on video [...], the story of the great cellist Jacqueline Du Pre, her career, and her often turbulent relationship with her sister, Hilary." The sad part about this is that Jacquie herself (being dead) had no say in it, so it's hard to know whether she might have participated in or agreed to such a story or not. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:01:39 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: DED Interview Butting in here with more questions about trees: Wally kindly pointed me in the direction to read info about trees, but I still don't get it. How does one participate in this? If I wanted to get copies of any of these items, who would I talk to? The site seems to indicate there are no trees happening right now, so does that mean you can't get it? If I missed something on the site, can someone let me know? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:04:59 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... NJC Catman, responding to my latest diatribe, says, "Catherine-I know you are Canadian! My questions were to the list in general. Sorry for the confusion." And I know I'm a pain in the ass to mention it all the time, because it's usually irrelevant. I am going to take a vow of silence for a while because I feel like quite the cyber-spacehog. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:08:05 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Diana Ross arrested (NJC) LOL at Evian's response to Catman's: "Diana Ross now has a criminal record here in the UK. She objected to being searched before she boarded Concorde this lunchtime so she assaulted the guard." Evian says: "Move over Courtney Love and Oasis, Diana is now the millennium bad girl! Y'all think she was trying to smuggle some Buckingham Palace gift shop nick-nacks in her hair?" Saw a picture of the Diva in the morning paper. That is quite the do on Di - - do you suppose she assaulted the guard with a good head-butt? All that hairspray's gotta hurt. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:17:35 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Harry's House & HOSL Interesting take on Harry's House where previously you had seen it as "a woman-as-hero, man-as-villain song", and then changed your mind. I agree with your new version - always thought it was one of those things where people meet and marry with great expecations that they're going to have the perfect house, the perfect job and so on and that they'll always stay in love and will always be young and beautiful. Then reality hits - maybe you do get the nice house and the good job, but you have to work for this and by working so hard to get all this "stuff", the measure of material success, your relationship suffers. You have your perfect kids, but you're always nagging at them to get down off the furniture and so on, and you wonder whatever became of that young girl at the swimming pool or that young man with a dream. You might then easily see yourself as the victim of the other, but sometimes things just happen. People change, they drift apart, their expecations change. Sometimes they have to make a choice between the career and the marriage (but why? in most cases, people know when they walk into something what the other person is about - the agree that the career is important, but then get upset when the other actually sticks to it) and the whole thing falls apart just when they've reached the pinnacle of what they once thought was what would bring them true happiness. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:25:02 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Bette Midler (NJC) side-comments etc. patrick leader wrote: > i > mark already weighed in on this. i don't own it. i anticipated the > premiere of the tv movie so much, and was oddly disappointed. i'll have to > watch/listen again. in general, i've found her live performances, albums > and movies of the last few years more polished and less inspired than most > of the stuff i've already reviewed. gypsy struck me a 'shtichy'. still, > she has really maintained and improved her voice. I agree with patrick, and I have both the cd and the video. The cd is great to listen to, but the movie is hard to watch. Bette shows little restraint. The movie with Roz and Natalie Wood is the one to watch, though Angela Lansbury is the best Mama Rose I've seen. Tyne Daly was way over rated. I'm waiting for Betty Buckley or even Bernadette Peters (who was in the touring company, though not, as her mother reports, as Dainty June) to have their way with the role. Jerry np: Don Rowe's excellent remastering The Seeding of Summer Lawns ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:29:55 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Bette Midler (NJC) side-comments etc. patrick leader wrote: > t > > i'd still say to joseph or anyone else, please consider the recommendations > i made about the first 5 or 6 albums. if you want to appreciate one of the > great living vocalist/performers... Or try Experience the Divine. A very good assortment from her albums through 1993. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:33:28 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Best album covers ever (now NJC) Jason speaks of "the trend to make the information/lyrics/running order as illegible and all-over-the-place as possible. Wildly scribbled liner notes in hand-written scrawl is particluarly gruelling. Oh, and just having a picture/design on the disc itself, with no mention of what's on it or who it's by. Do they expect us to always have the CD case with us? ;-)" The booklet with Elvis Costello's "All this useless beauty" is just that - useless. You can't read it because the words are printed on top of pictures and there's not enough contrast between the print and what's behind it to be able to read it. And he writes good lyrics, which makes it doubly frustrating. Do you think it's just faulty design techniques, or is it done deliberately as part of a secret conspiracy...? ;) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:36:04 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves On CMIARS, Jason mentions "gorgeous colours and the coolest poncho.... :-)" Do you suppose Joni still needs that poncho? D'ya think she'd mind giving it to me? Will she ever have a garage sale? Maybe at the same time as we all descend on her place for a big Joni gathering? The poncho's mine! Called it! cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:46:56 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: songbook with loose pages! HELP! CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: > Hi friends! > A few years ago I ordered *For the Roses* songbook from this place (can't > remember where..figures!) It was there last one (sound familiar Kakki?) > Anyway, when I got this book the first 20 pages where loose and now they are > completely out meaning that the binding in some songbooks really suck! Is > there anyway I can either get it fixed or fix it myself using a SPECIAL kind > of glue or am I stuck with a loose songbook? The book is in MINT cond. > otherwise. You can use a method called "tipping" the pages into the original binding which is very cheap to do yourself, but very time consuming. We do it here at the library all the time. But for a songbook, which is meant to be used, it may not last except for preservation purposes. It is very common with songbooks to lose their pages from them being flattened all the time. If you plan on really using the book it may be best to punch hole the pages, reinforce the holes. and put it in a binder. That is what I do. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:44:34 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... absolutely NJC Colin said: "For instance, we use the term pavement to mean the sidewalk and Americans use pavement to mean the tarmac on roads." To which Paul replied: "Not necessarily true. Tarmac is a brand name for a specific type of pavement, a smooth type of asphalt, I think, that is mostly used at airports. Pavement is a generic word for any paved area and, in my experience, is used in the USA for both roads and sidewalks." First of all, Paul, I would like to ask - quite good-naturedly of course - does anal retentive take a hyphen? There are a whole bunch of brand names that have entered into common usage as applying to things that are similar but not that brand name, e.g. Xerox, aspirin and so on. When we (speaking for North Americans in general, although there may be regional variations) use the word "pavement", we are usually talking about a road or area that has been paved with asphalt. Since it may be paved (with asphalt) or not (dirt, gravel), a road is still a road, a sigh is just a sigh, and so on. I've also heard the word macadam used to describe pavement (tarmac? asphalt?) Presumably this comes from someone's name - MacAdam - who presumably invented this stuff (?) I hear it used by French-speaking people in Quebec, don't know how widely this might be used in English-speaking parts of Canada of the US. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:46:21 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Artist's songs for their children NJC - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 8:46 PM Subject: Re: Artist's songs for their children NJC > I know a lot of Mercer songs, but can't think of anything with "Birthday" in > the title. > LAHM I was wondering if this was in reference to the song 'Mandy Is Two' which is a little dittie that Billie Holiday recorded around 1941 or so. It's about a little girl who has just turned two years old but I don't know if she was Mercer's kid or not. Mark in Seattle > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:50:15 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Bette Midler (NJC) > one of my favorite songs on the for the boys soundtrack is ps, i love you. > but there's one line i can't understand. at one point close to the end bette > sings, "i've done my best to obey all your wishes..." and then there's the > line i can't get. can any of you guys help me? > wallyk > I'm not sure either but to me it sounds like 'I put a sign up, "Think"'. Then the rest of the verse is 'Now I've got to buy a new set of dishes/or wash the ones that are piled in the sink". Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:55:12 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Harry's House David says, "I've always thought the last verse (and the teasing "When will you be home Harry?"s) suggested that the wife was going to take a lover (without telling Harry)." Interesting, veddy interesting. I hear the "When will you be home's" as a nag. Not a deliberate nag, she doesn't realize she's doing it, but the nag of someone who is frustrated. She's getting lonely and the kids are driving her nuts (ever been stuck at home with the kids all day? Yikes!) I don't think this woman would have the time to take a lover. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:47:57 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: 2 Best album covers ever NJC LOL at the Rev Vince's (can I call you Vinnie?) statement that: "I think it was Catherine but I always agree with her anyway." Git outta here! Hey, waddya know though - I [almost] always agree with you too! (The [almost] is there, just in case... Sgt Pepper's LHCB definitely does have a very interesting cover. You find something new there every time you look. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:24:30 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: Re: Reply to Gina, and a movie (SJC) Catherine wrote, first quoting an earlier post of mine: ""You wrote: "This was brought home to me in force this weekend when I saw the movie "Hilary and Jackie" on video [...], the story of the great cellist Jacqueline Du Pre, her career, and her often turbulent relationship with her sister, Hilary." The sad part about this is that Jacquie herself (being dead) had no say in it, so it's hard to know whether she might have participated in or agreed to such a story or not." Yes, that's true, and I realized later that I could have made that clearer. Certainly some of her survivors made known *their* disapproval, arguably considering her interests (at least, as they perceived them) in doing so. But at least this is--thank the heavens above--*one* issue that often comes up in considering just how much privacy an artist's personal life should be afforded that we **don't** have to examine directly on the JMDL!!!! Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:22:21 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: James Taylor song & Joni? Paul heard: <> Wow! As many times as i"ve heard that record, I never "heard" that lyric...sure sounds like it is...good catch, Paul! I had always been partial to the "Make my bed out of wonder bread, spread some mustard on my head..." song (Chili Dog). Bob NP: Traffic, "Withering Tree" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:37:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: The CMA Show ... anybody care? (NJC) You know, even though we have quite a few music sluts and strumpets on this list, I have this feeling that I might be the only person who took in the CMA Show last night. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, of course, so I'll throw is open and ask ... if you watched it, what did you think? For me it was a little surreal -- the pairing of Merle Haggard/Jewel on duet was bizarre -- and showed once and for all that the girl's voice really does park next door to useless. If you didn't see it, imagine Britney Spears and Keith Richards doing a duet of "Wild Horses", and you've pretty much got the picture. More than that though, and even more disturbing than the blatant Faith Hill rip-off of F-Macs "The Landslide", was the absolute forgettability of 90% of the material. For a while there, country was holding a line on clever, if not artistic lyrical content and hooky arrangements ... but no more apparently. Nothin' lasts ... for long! Don Rowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:00:06 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: James Taylor song & Joni? In a message dated 9/23/1999 10:25:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluor.com writes: << Wow! As many times as i"ve heard that record, I never "heard" that lyric...sure sounds like it is...good catch, Paul! >> I love this JT song, and even play it! But , I never studied the lyrics. I think you're right on, Paul! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:20:52 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Songs about kids (NJC) Steve Goodman's "Jessie's Jig" is subtitled with the names of all his other kids.... ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:21:12 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: James Taylor song & Joni? << Wow! As many times as i"ve heard that record, I never "heard" that lyric...sure sounds like it is...good catch, Paul! >> I love this JT song, and even play it! But , I never studied the lyrics. I think you're right on, Paul! Terry Which makes me wonder how many others on the list are just like me. Joni is the only one I have ever really paid close attention to all the lyrics of all the songs. Other artists, maybe a few songs of their's I really ponder, but no one else have I ever taken to heart for their entire catalog like the Joan. Penny ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:25:32 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Harry's House & HOSL Mark comments: <> That's a neat take on it, I never heard the sarcasm in Joni's vocalization, just the "prettiness" of it, which made me think Harry was thinking how his life would imitate the song at some time in the past. It is certainly an ironic inclusion either way. Especially when we hear in the wife's stressed out head only the "nothing's any good" part of it... <> "Yellow checkers for the kitchen, Climbing ivy for the bath" were HER idea, not his. I would guess her lust for things and her "House and Gardens" type home pressured him to climb the corporate ladder just as much as he pressured himself to do the same. <> I don't think you can read them in any other way, to me they're a part of *his* vision, or it could be Joni as narrator since the next piece is definitely narration of the situation. << Maybe Steve & Bob could tell us why they think Joni is showing understanding & compassion for the characters in this song?>> I think the inclusion of "Centerpiece" sets up the contrast; obviously the insert tells how they *wanted* things to be as opposed to the reality of how things are...the contrast makes me feel empathy for these characters. Had Joni set it up where she married him for his money, or he married her for her social status or whatever, then I would feel no empathy. Likewise, if the wife or the husband was cheating, or abusing the other, or something else, it would be tough to empathize. But instead, Joni shows us that they were in love and had a better vision for their lives together, and they got lost in what society's vision of them was supposed to be, which I think is a more compassionate take. Good discussion...HOSL tunes almost always seem to be... Bob NP: Townshend/Lane, "Misunderstood" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:50:10 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Bette Midler (NJC) side-comments etc. Mark said, "Although 'The First Wives Club' had some funny moments in it I found myself wanting to shake Bette and tell her to stop doing the same old schtick, fercrissake! She seems to be playing variations of the same character over & over again, doing the same mugging, the same delivery, etc. She's better than that!" I agree - but Bette was STILL the best thing in what was otherwise a totally STUPID movie. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:53:20 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Bette Midler (NJC) side-comments etc. Loved "Ruthless People". It was sick, but sooo funny. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:01:56 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: The CMA Show ... anybody care? (NJC) Don Rowe writes: << You know, even though we have quite a few music sluts and strumpets on this list, I have this feeling that I might be the only person who took in the CMA Show last night. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, of course, so I'll throw is open and ask ... if you watched it, what did you think? >> No Don, you weren't the only JMDLer to watch the CMA's last night. I know there's not a lot of country music fans on the list, so I rarely mention it. I happen to love most of the country music out today. I hated it until about 10 years ago. As for the show last night, I agree with you that Country music has taken a slip the past couple of years. The lyrics aren't up to snuff (although I feel that way about pop music too). Usually the CMA's are one of my favorite musical award shows, but it was lacking style last night. IMO it was still better than this years Grammy's but that's not saying much. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:02:03 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Harry's House & HOSL - NJC CaTGirl says, "I always looked at poor Harry married to a women who only wanted him for his money. Being lost in House and Gardens with all his money to spend it on for yellow checkers in the kitchen and climbing ivy for the bath and then all she can do is nag him." This version sounds so much like my [soon to be ex-] stepsister-in-law who, after years of the House& Garden thing, plus getting a boob job because I guess she figured hers weren't big enough or something, booted my stepbrother out of the house, went to London for the weekend to "shop 'til she dropped" using Jim's line-of-credit, and now wants him to pay her - get this - !$10,000 a month! for maintenance and child support. And wants to settle this all "amicably, without a lawyer". In the meantime, her boyfriend that she picked up somewhere has now moved in with her, in the house Jim paid for, with their three daughters. The Barbie doll from hell. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:04:30 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Joni Sleeves Penny says, quoting Joni, "...it was really heavy, like a sherman (tank) really, if we had been in like a Pinto we'd been totalled." (said with a really heavy Canadian accent)". So, like, Canadians don't have accents, eh. :) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:09:13 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Kakki say, "I want to hit my head on a windshield everytime I'm reminded of this ;-D It happened directly across the street from me at MOCA (Museum of Contemporary Art) - but since it was long before Joni list, internet and inside scoop and information, I missed it. Arrrrr...... Shame on you. Rubber-necker. Ambulance chaser. :) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:15:48 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: canadian english NJC >I've found your post on Canadian/British/American usage so very >useful. I >have been frequently puzzled by the seeming >inconsistencies in Canadian >usage. So are most of us! >Now, thanks to your post, I understand a lot more about the way >Canadians >conceive themselves as speakers of English. It's all part of our identity crisis. We don't know who we are. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:19:04 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Joni in the tabloids CatGirl says: "I have this great shirt but can not remember what the anagram means again.... Catgirl the loser!! Siquombe..I promise I will write it 50 times to remember!" I've got to admit I was disappointed when I found out what it meant (that was just recently on either jmdl.com or jonimitchell.com) - and here I thought it might be some kind of West Coast Indian word. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:19:51 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: RE: Joni Sleeves Catherine wrote: >>So, like, Canadians don't have accents, eh. :) That wonderful accent was one of the most memorable things about that short interview. ;-) I've heard Joni speak so many times, but on that day her accent really stood out for some reason. She also spoke of her painting influences and process, if I recall. If I can find the interview, I'll post all of what she said. And on another one of your posts this morning I have to thank you, Catherine, for starting my day out with a great big laugh. Asking if anal retentive took a hyphen had me ROTFL! ;-D Peace ya'll Penny ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:24:54 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Artist's songs for their children NJC Paul asks: "Anyone else recommend anything for getting the little ones off to sleep?" If you're talking colic, I understand the sound of a vacuum cleaner running (!) and driving them around in the car for hours and hours does the trick. Unfortunately, the minute you turn off the vaccum cleaner (whups - Hoover!), or take 'em out of the car, they're back up and screaming again. With my daughter, I used to rock her in a rocking chair for HOURS singing "Summertime" to her. After this had gone on for quite some time, I told her she needed to get her sleep because Mummy was tired too, and it would be a whole lot better for both of us if we both got our sleep, so she'd just have to go to sleep now. This may sound really weird talking to a little baby like that, but you know what? it worked! Same thing happened later with my son. As a baby, he actually went to sleep quite well. But when he got to be a toddler, he refused to go to sleep unless I lay down on the bed with him. He'd go to sleep, I'd try to sneak out of the room without making any noise, and whump! the eyes'd fly open, big as saucers because he was over-tired, but he wouldn't let me leave. I had to have the same talk with him - I told him gently, but firmly, that Mummy could NOT stay anymore, that Mummy needed to get to sleep and so did he - and again, it worked. I don't know if that was just dumb luck - but I think kids know a lot more than we give them credit for. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:30:21 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Joni's "idols," was Reply to Gina, and a movie Kakki said: "I do think, like Michael pointed out, that if Joni *is* listening, she is mostly laughing her ass off. At least, I hope she is." All I can say is, I wish it WERE possible to laugh your ass off - I've got a few unwanted pounds I'd willingly relinquish! :D cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:36:30 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: Little Green (JM interview excerpt from RS) The good Rev. Vince opined, in a post I'll quote at length because he said this so well: "I agree with what MG said about the Rolling Store interview. Joni owes no one anything and certainly doesn't have to answer every question about her personal life withg every detail. Actually, reading the excerpt posted, I thought it gave a very good explanation (and very touching) about why she placed her child for adoption. Joni's explanation - read it again - of why she didn't have a child speaks of all the reasons that she placed her child for adoption. I was quite moved... and do not think Joni was throwing people off a path that was not theirs to walk... I think she was saying with great personal grace why she did what she did." Vince, I agree with you 1000%. Emily Dickinson wrote, "Tell the truth, but tell it slant." I think Joni was "slanting" here by omission to protect Kilauren, Kilauren's adoptive parents, herself, and the integrity of the choice she made all those years ago. However, that doesn't make her words one iota less truthful. It's funny: I well remember reading this interview when it was first published. I had been intensely discovering Joni's music for about a year, and recall thinking how very sad it was that one who appeared to appreciate so well just what parenthood was all about would probably never have that experience herself. Then, years later, I was elated to discover that this was not quite the case. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:36:13 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Artist's songs for their children NJC Thank you Mark! That's it - I was thinking Happy Birthday Amanda, or Melissa, or whatever - and that the kid was 6. I know I'm losin' it but not that badly. > > I know a lot of Mercer songs, but can't think of anything with >"Birthday" in > > the title. > > LAHM > >I was wondering if this was in reference to the song 'Mandy Is Two' >which is a little dittie that Billie Holiday recorded around 1941 or >so. It's about a little girl who has just turned two years old but I >don't know if she was Mercer's kid or not. > >Mark in Seattle cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:52:56 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Artist's songs for their children NJC Paul C. asks: << Anyone else recommend anything for getting the little ones off to sleep? >> Well Paul, I don't know about the little ones but "Yanni" or "Yawny" can put me to sleep just the mention of his name. Also Kenny G. can have the same effect on me until he catches me off guard and throws a fourth note into one of his songs. :-) Sorry if I offended any Yanni or Kenny G. lovers. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:21:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Artist's songs for their children NJC > Paul C. asks: > > << Anyone else recommend anything for getting the > little ones off to sleep? > >> My recommendation would be "Tingri" by John Serrie. He's a VERY atmospheric synth player, and this whole CD is like a 55-minute planetarium show. I don't know about kids ... but my two Siamese cats sack out in between the speakers every time I spin it! Don Rowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:23:49 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: SIQUOMB At 04:19 PM 9/23/99 GMT, Catherine McKay wrote: >I've got to admit I was disappointed when I found out what it meant "Disappointed?" I've always thought Joni's creation of "SIQUOMB" as an acronym and a business endeavor was rather ingenious. As we've discussed here before, this publishing company she created, and named Siquomb, has enabled her to fare much better (financially) than many of her peers who signed away most or all of their rights to unscrupulous agents and/or companies. The fact that Joni enjoys healthy royalties to this day is testament to her business acumen and proves that indeed She Is Queen Undisputedly Of Mind Beauty. Of course the creative side of her mind ain't bad either. :-) In addition, I rather like the way folks around this list have taken to using "SIQUOMB" as a nickname for Joni Mitchell. I find it warm and complimentary and I think she would too. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:22:27 PDT From: "David Greenspoon" Subject: RE: Harry's House/ Centerpiece Cat Girl wrote: "I always looked at poor Harry married to a women who only wanted him for his money.  Being lost in House and Gardens with all his money to spend it on for yellow checkers in the kitchen and climbing ivy for the bath and then all she can do is nag him. When you gonna be home Harry and then yelling at the kids, "Get down off of there", and then thinking I sure am sick of that sofa.  I wonder just how old that sofa was?  A few month maybe a year.  ...just what she could do with Harry's house and Harry's take home pay....." I agree I always saw the song HOSL as a relation that was bad for the womaan and contrasting that was Harry's House/Centerpiece with the man as the person who should get out of the relationship. David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:28:35 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: HELLO JMDLs Yes I do, I luvya ... **/ \\ ' \ \#######\=--###### */ /"\! "" \#\ \##############//" *| \\#\ \ \#*\ \####\ /*# / .= \"""#"\""#/"" |" ..##/" \..\ ##==-"""/# | \############# ;\ /############# **\#/ _ /####/ |#* \##### */ |./***-/ * ** /* "##### * " *' *** o /##### \ _ ** =/######## \ . .==#***#### ############# \ ## ../ /############## \ ##===*/*" /################ \ *##/" /################## \ ../"###################### \ /########################### \..../###################/ \########## "****#################/ \######### \##############/ \### \### laughin & \############/ |###* |## cryin \########### #/ |# you know it's \##########. /## the same release ... \########## ## I'm just in a good mood today...return to your regularly scheduled Jonithon ...!!! ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ weekend email address: suemc16@webtv.net "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:04:55 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: HELLO JMDLs Wow Susan!!! This is SO impressive!!! Do you think you can do the much aligned cover of DED ;-) (that comment for Bob M...)LOL Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:19:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: Harry's House/ Centerpiece "Harry's House/Centerpiece" has always struck me as cutting both ways. Like a John Cheever short story, there aren't a whole lot of sympathetic characters. Harry and the wife are equally shallow ... she's caught in House and Gardens ... he's tunnel visioned on his next promotion. Their lives are as thin as the paper on their walls, and they're raising a family with awarness and responsibilies just about as deep. This is partly her fault, partly Harry's. What really captures me about this song is, the subject matter is so empty, but is presented with such depth and literary clarity. I don't think too many people wouldn't tank this song among Joni's finest lyrically. Those lyrics are set on melodic lines so gentle, that the music itself serves to lull you into that same false security generated in the isolated suburbs of the 1970s. Don Rowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #427 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?