From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #425 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, September 22 1999 Volume 04 : Number 425 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Joni Sleeves [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Joni Sleeves [dsk ] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Reply to Gina, and a movie ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Willy (Oh, behave!) (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Joni Sleeves [dsk ] Re: Willy (Oh, behave!) (NJC) ["Kakki" ] DED Interview [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Joni Sleeves [dsk ] Re: Joni Sleeves - Mingus Affection ["Kakki" ] Re: Here we go again..... [Ashara@aol.com] Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... NJC [catman ] Diana Ross arrested (NJC) [evian ] John Trudell Newsletter ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Gram Parsons Tribute On W54th St. ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Re: Artist's songs for their children NJC [Jason Maloney ] Re: Willy (Oh, behave!) (NJC) [David Wright ] Re: New Tom Rush Comp (vljc) [LLDeMerle ] Re: Little Green (JM interview excerpt from R/S) [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Harry's House [David Wright ] Re: Little Green (JM interview excerpt from R/S) [LLDeMerle ] Re: Harry's House & HOSL [RMuRocks@aol.com] RE: Bette Midler (NJC) side-comments etc. ["patrick leader" ] Latino Accent (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Gram Parsons Tribute On W54th St. [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Diana Ross Arrested NJC [Vince Lavieri ] RE: Joni Sleeves ["Wally Kairuz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:59:40 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: RE: Joni Sleeves Anne said: << I'd be curious to hear 'acoustic' versions of the songs by Joni.>> I do have a BBC "Rock Master Class" interview tape with acoustic (guitar AND piano) versions of: Three Great Stimulants Impossible Dreamer Dog Eat Dog And a great interview to boot! And as always, I'm happy to share!! If you want a copy, lemme know! Bob NP: TMBG, "New York City" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:05:37 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Anne Sandstrom wrote: > Wasn't Joni in a car accident about the time she was recording DED? Was she? I hadn't heard that. If she was, that just adds to her list of woes in the 80s, along with being butchered by a dentist and having everyone stealing from her (paraphrasing her words). With all that outer turmoil happening, it's surprising she created anything during those years. DS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:03:01 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... NJC Catman said: >>I thought afterwards that it is probably spelt differently in >>American. Not to belabour/belabor the point, but I'm Canadian, not American, and we tend to go one way with certain meanings and spellings and the other way with others. There is no particular rhyme nor reason to this that I'm aware of - often it's a matter of personal preference or arbitariness, but generally speaking, the younger you are, the more likely you are to go with the "American" spelling, and the pundits of grammar and spelling generally agree - for example the "-or/-our" ending in words such as colour/color and honour/honor is one that we use in my office because we're doing correspondence for the minister of Health and therefore want to seem "Canadian". However, the CP (Canadian Press) stylebook which for most purposes is our bible for spelling and when/when not to use capital letters, goes with the "-or" or "American" spelling. Many of the "language pundits" suggest that the "-or" ending makes more sense pronunciation-wise and that the use of "-or" or "-our" is inconsistent even in the "English" version - for example, we all spell it "governor", not "governour". My Dad was in the Canadian army during WWII, and he was a lieutenant, which he would pronounce "Left-enant". I tend to use the "American" pronunciation "Loo-tenant" or even "Lyutenant". Some Canadians pronounce the word "schedule" as "shedjool" which I always thought sounded a bit pretentious, and I pronounce it "skedjool"; and so on. Some Canadians will use what they perceive to be the "correct/British" pronunciation out of sheer snobbishness. Where Americans would spell the word "center", we use "centre" and in this case, I'm not sure if it comes from the "British" or from the French. Since we are an officially bilingual country, spelling it "centre" comes in handy for a number of reasons - we only need use the word once and, since in English the word "centre" would come after the name but in French it would go before, you will see a see that says "Ford Centre Ford" (Ford Centre for the English, Centre Ford pour les francais.) You also asked: >if you have american language classses as we have english language >classes >here? I do not mean english for foreignors, but english for >compositon, >spelling, grammar etc. If you're talking about grammar, spelling and so on, I may have been one of the last class-years (in my province, Ontario, anyway), where they still taught grammar as a subject in elementary school. We had to parse sentences and so on, which I found tedious. It became unfashionable shortly after that to teach "grammar" in that way, although from what I see my kids bringing home, it may have come back into style. They may have discovered that many kids can't put a sentence together and wouldn't know the difference between a noun and a verb. In Canada, each province sets its own educational guidelines, so that in Ontario, elementary school starts at age 4 with junior kindergarten, or at age 5 with senior kindergarten depending on how much money the board has to spend) and then continues from Grades 1 to 8 as elementary school; then Grades 9 to 13 for Secondary or High School. We are probably the only province (that I know of) that has a Grade 13. They keep claiming there is no longer any Grade 13, but there really is - they just changed the name from Grade 13 to OAC, which (I think!) stands for Ontario Advanced Certificate. If you want to go to university, you are expected to have your OAC. Certainly the kids do take spelling from kindergarten all the way through elementary school and, as part of that, they also learn about the proper use of words, what endings to use to make plurals and so on. And they are expected to write compositions and/or essays pretty much the whole way through school as well. >When i was over in the USA I discovered that English and American >are >really quite different, not just in spelling, but is usage and >meaning >too. > >For instance, we use the term pavement to mean the sidewalk and >Americans >use pavement to mean the tarmac on roads. Canadians say pavement too for the roads, not the sidewalks. I think we tend to follow the "American" usage more with respect to the meanings of words, with a lot of "English" spellings. (And we drive on the right-hand side of the road too!) > > > > > > > On the other hand, after my son was born, my next-door neighbour, who >was > > originally from New Zealand and is a nurse, asked me whether his "little > > um-bi-LIKE-le" had fallen off yet. We tend to pronounce it >"um-BILL-acle" > > so it took me a few seconds to clue in to what she was talking about! > > > > (You say tomayto, I say tomahto, and all that jazz.) > > > > cateri@hotmail.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > >-- >"It is better to be hated for what you are >than to be loved for what you are not." >TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS >http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk > > cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:02:23 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... In a message dated 9/22/99 2:16:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << >but of course although it sounds the same, it is actually spelt feaces. Not to drag this out, but the word we're thinking of can also be spelled "feces" >> y'all have made this a really shitty thread. ss ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:04:44 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... In a message dated 9/22/99 2:35:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@apso.screaming.net writes: << For instance, we use the term pavement to mean the sidewalk and Americans use pavement to mean the tarmac on roads. >> in south philadelphia they use the word pavement to mean sidewalk, but they pronounce it as 'payment' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:06:09 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... >y'all have made this a really shitty thread. >ss Definitely. Our minds are in the toilet! cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:05:04 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Debra Shea said: <> Not much affection!?! Let me go on record again saying that I LOVE Mingus, not just because of what Joni was *attempting* but rather what she did! This record contains Joni's best singing EVER! Her voice swoops and soars like Sarah Vaughan's, it's gorgeous! And the songs are so complex that we rarely care to discuss them, like they're too lyrically complicated or something...or maybe they were all talked out before I came aboard. Granted, there's only 6 songs on it, but the layers of music and the colors...It only makes me that much more anxious to hear her Standards project, if it sounds like "Stormy Weather" and "Summertime" it will be the album of the year fer sher! Bob, who loves Mingus so much that he'd kiss the cover of it, but then he'd realize what MAYBE is on the cover and then go PTUI! PTOO!! NP: TMBG, "S-E-X-X-Y" (The Warren Rigg Microwave Mix) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:41:46 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Best album covers ever (now NJC) Most of the psychedelic 60s album covers were works of art. I partiicularly remember oohing and ahhing over Cream's "Disraeli Gears" in when it came out. Also, Led Zeppelin's first album. Catherine wrote: > LP covers were an artform unto themselves and CDs can't match that for > visual impact - not to mention the tiny print that old fogeys like me can't > read without a magnifying glass! Tell me about it. My middle-aged vanity (and squewy visual conditions) precludes me from wearing reading glasses, but I finally broke down and recently succumbed to buying a giant magnifier after headbanging frustration at not being able to read CD liner notes! Kakki NP: Diana Krall - They Can't Take That Away From Me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:15:40 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: Reply to Gina, and a movie Gina wrote: "The Little Green thread just struck as somehow different in that the very fine details of a highly personal and painful decision on Joni's part was being discussed and second-guessed to an extent that I found uncomfortable for the reasons Michael mentioned above: do Joni or her daughter read some of these posts. I guess I'm just a very private person myself." Well, reasonable people can agree to disagree on this one. I admit to having experienced a few twinges upon participating in the "little green" thread, but finally concluded that 1) Joni is a public figure; 2) beyond that, she has voluntarily chosen to deal with some of the issues discussed in her body of work, as well as in interviews, and 3) as Kakki and several other people memorably pointed out, it may be difficult to underestimate the effect that her pregnancy, relinquishment of Kilauren, and now, subsequent reunion with her daughter and her family have had/will have on her life and art. I think all these factors, taken together, make this a bona fide subject for discussion here--although, were it not for the high caliber of that discussion and, even more, the respect for Joni that was so palpable throughout it, I might well have come to a different conclusion. In general, though, looking at an artist's work through the prism of his or her life can be problematic at best, even if one starts from the assumption--as I usually do--that such an endeavor can indeed be inherently useful. This was brought home to me in force this weekend when I saw the movie "Hilary and Jackie" on video. For those who haven't seen it, the movie tells the story of the great cellist Jacqueline Du Pre, her career, and her often turbulent relationship with her sister, Hilary. The movie was based on a controversial book called "A Genius in the Family," by Hilary and their brother, Piers, in which many family secrets were revealed that many who knew Jacqueline Du Pre thought should best have been *kept* secret. The most notable of these was the affair that Jacqueline apparently had with Hilary's husband, with Hilary's consent, at an deeply vulnerable point in Jacqueline's life. There are also moments in the film that chronicle Jacqueline's life after illness robbed her of her career which some critics felt were intrusive and inappropriate. Finally, several still-living associates of Jacqueline's--especially her husband, Daniel Barenboim--were not at all happy about the film, or about the way in which certain events they were part of were portrayed. Do I feel that I can appreciate the art of Jacqueline Du Pre on a deeper level due to what I now know about her life, and especially, the precarious state of her health during a substantial number of her prime playing years? Most definitely yes, although I know that some on this list would answer differently. Do I think the film crossed the line into sensationalism or vulgarity? For the most part, no, but the inclusion of some details did make me uncomfortable, despite the fact that they may have been necessary for the film's own integrity and vision. Do I think this film should have been made? That's a difficult question, but I'd probably say yes, if pushed, for some of the same reasons that I think this list should discuss "Little Green." And do I know where the line should be drawn between what is acceptable to be known of an artist's private life, and the parts that should be off limits even for one in the public eye? Hell, no! And if anyone has figured out the answer to *this* one, I'd love to hear it. Respectfully, Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:21:22 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Willy (Oh, behave!) (NJC) Terry wrote: >Not to diminish the sadness of this news, but isn't it interesting that >Graham has a son named Will? Wasn't that Joni's nickname for him, or did >everyone call him that? He was called Willy at least as far back as his days in the Hollies. Songs about kids - Loudon Wainwright III has a number of songs about his children with Anna McGarrigle - "Rufus is a tit man" being the only one that leaps to mind. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:19:49 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > I do have a BBC "Rock Master Class" interview tape with acoustic (guitar > AND piano) versions of: > Three Great Stimulants > Impossible Dreamer > Dog Eat Dog > And a great interview to boot! This sounds very interesting. Is this stuff going to be on a tape tree? Or is it already and I missed it? If the answer to both questions is no, I just may take you up on your generous offer. Other than always buying her albums as soon as they came out (or as soon as I found out about them), I wasn't paying much attention to Joni during the 80s, so am very curious about that time. I didn't even know she was married then until I read about it on the web pages. (Shocking, isn't it?) NRH brought back my enthusiasm for her work. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:54:11 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Willy (Oh, behave!) (NJC) Steve wrote re: Graham: > He was called Willy at least as far back as his days in the Hollies. I recall reading somewhere (maybe the Hollies website) that William is actually his first name. Kakki NP: Diana Krall - I Don't Stand A Ghost of A Chance With You ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:40:13 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: DED Interview <> It's very interesting indeed! I love the interviews for the same reason I've enjoyed the discussion thread about "Little Green"...it gives me new insight into this artist whose work I adore! Has it been on a tree ? - no. Will it be treed? I dunno, but hey, life is short! You can wait and see, or let me know and I'll get you a copy! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:46:46 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > Not much affection!?! Let me go on record again saying that I LOVE Mingus, > not just because of what Joni was *attempting* but rather what she did! Really? I didn't know that. What a great endorsement of Mingus! I'll keep this enthusiasm in mind when I listen again. :-) DS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:17:05 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves - Mingus Affection Bob wrote: > Not much affection!?! Let me go on record again saying that I LOVE Mingus, > not just because of what Joni was *attempting* but rather what she did! > > This record contains Joni's best singing EVER! Her voice swoops and soars > like Sarah Vaughan's, it's gorgeous! And the songs are so complex that we > rarely care to discuss them, like they're too lyrically complicated or > something...or maybe they were all talked out before I came aboard. The similarities between Joni's and Sarah's vocal style recently struck me like a lightning bolt. Don't know why I missed it before - probably because I had them mentally categorized into different "genres". You can especially hear it in the early Sarah songs. "Mingus" is an absolute gem and I think it will be regarded as a classic in years to come. I had to grow up before I could fully appreciate it and agree that it is very gorgeous. I can't recall much discussion of the lyrics here in the past. Maybe because it is complex - it's difficult for me to articulate and parse it because it feels somewhat ethereal. But maybe this would be a good challenge for us. > Granted, there's only 6 songs on it, but the layers of music and the > colors...It only makes me that much more anxious to hear her Standards > project, if it sounds like "Stormy Weather" and "Summertime" it will be the > album of the year fer sher! I think she's going to knock us over with it. Kakki NP: Diana Krall - Garden in the Rain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:55:09 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: Here we go again..... Martin wrote a cute post: << << My Mum (who is a great Joni fan) told me at the weekend that she always imagined Joni and companions at the Chinese Cafe playing Mah Jong... Down at the Chinese Cafe We'd be spittin' on our dice...>> and Paul I tries, as always, to correct him: << Except that the pieces in mah jong are called "tiles," not dice.>> In this case, Paul, you are wrong. There are also tiles in Mah Jongg, but according to page 71 of the book "The Way To Play," "Other equipment includes: a) two dice b) scoring counters c) optional wind indicators" I am also holding in my very hands a set of dice that I just took out of a beautiful Mah Jongg set that was handed down to me by my grandmother. Who cares if they use dice, tiles, or elephants? It was cute. Can't we just leave it as that? Ashara {who gets sooooo very weary of seeing "Joni-isms" shot down by "corrections."} ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:12:22 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... NJC Catherine-I know you are Canadian! My questions were to the list in general. Sorry for the confusion. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:18:39 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Here we go again..... > > > In this case, Paul, you are wrong. There are also tiles in Mah Jongg, but > according to page 71 of the book "The Way To Play," > "Other equipment includes: > a) two dice > b) scoring counters > c) optional wind indicators" > > I am also holding in my very hands a set of dice that I just took out of a > beautiful Mah Jongg set that was handed down to me by my grandmother. Game, set and match to Ashara! > > > Who cares if they use dice, tiles, or elephants? It was cute. Can't we just > leave it as that? > > Ashara {who gets sooooo very weary of seeing "Joni-isms" shot down by > "corrections."} - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0600 From: evian Subject: Diana Ross arrested (NJC) > Diana Ross now has a criminal record here in the UK. She objected to > being searched before she boarded Concorde this lunchtime so she > assaulted the guard. > Move over Courtney Love and Oasis, Diana is now the millennium bad girl! Y'all think she was trying to smuggle some Buckingham Palace gift shop nick-nacks in her hair? Perhaps a Queen Mum salt shaker behind her ear or something? Call her Ms. Ross Indeed! Evian, who just came home to an email sent in August... gotta love that wacky cyberspace. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:36:52 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: John Trudell Newsletter The John Trudell Newsletter http://www.JohnTrudell.com Attention John Trudell fans, COMING UP SOON: Oct. 2 Verde Valley School Music Festival Sedona, AZ Performing with Bad Dog Also performing: Jackson Browne, Bonnie Raitt, Shawn Colvin, David Lindley and Wally Ingram, and Ulali Oct. 5 Taos Convention Center Taos, NM Performing with Bad Dog Also performing: Jackson Browne Oct. 6 Sweeney Convention Center Santa Fe, NM Performing with Bad Dog Also performing: Jackson Browne Nov. 2 Big Ed’s Café Reno, NV Performing with Bad Dog Nov. 3 Big Ed’s Café Reno, NV Lecturing - ---------------------------------------------------- TO SUBSCRIBE TO JOHN TRUDELL’S NEWSLETTER send an e-mail to: info@johntrudell.com with the word “SUBSCRIBE” in the subject line. - ---------------------------------------------------- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM JOHN TRUDELL’S NEWSLETTER send an e-mail to: info@johntrudell.com with the word “UNSUBSCRIBE” in the subject line. Copyright 1999 Triple O Productions. All rights reserved. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:55:20 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Gram Parsons Tribute On W54th St. The Gram Parsons Tribute taping for Sessions On W54th was incredible and very likely the most amazing collection of alt. country talent that you'll ever see together. Emmylou was the host for the evening, with her band acting as house band and what a band it was; Bernie Leadon on guitar, Greg Lieisz on pedal steel (and guitar and dobro), Ethan Johns on drums, Wix (from Paul McCartney's band) on keyboard and Buddy Miller on bass (and guitar). Greg Liesz was the unsung star of the night. Here's the set list : 1 "Return Of The Grievious Angel"; a duet between Emmylou and Ryan Adams 2 "High Fashion Queen"; Steve Earle and Chris Hillman trading verses 3 "One Thousand Dollar Wedding"; which Hillman introduced by telling how Gram was supposed to be getting married but didn't. Victoria Williams and Mark Olson backed by Chris Hillman 4 "Hot Burritto #1"; All the Mavericks with some of the Emmylou band. Raul Malo has an incredible voice 5 "Christine's Tune (Devil In Disguise)"; Chris Hillman and John Hiatt (who hosts the seies) trading verses and backing each other and having a grand time doing it. 6 "Hickory Wind"; Chris Hillman introduced this one as the first song he ever heard Gram sing. Just Gillian Welch and David Rawlings (with his family in attendence) on acoustic guitars and Greg Liesz on pedal steel. This was the highlight of the concert for me as she transformed the tune into a Gillian Welch tune; slow, sparse and haunting; just awesome with the perfect pedal steel lines from Liesz 7 "Sin City"; Gillian Welch and David Rawlings stayed out and were joined by Steve Earle and the Emmylou band 8 "Juanita"; a beautiful duet between Emmylou and Sheryl Crow. The audience was thrilled when they had to do a retake of the whole song! 9 "Wheels"; Emmylou introduced the song as the most righteous shuffle ever written. Chris Hillman and Jim Lauderdale did it justice 10 On "A Song For You" the house band was joined by Whiskeytown. Ryan can channel Gram even if Caitlin's vocals couldn't match Emmylou's on the original. Ryan's singing, Caitlin's fiddle and again Greg Liesz's pedal steel made this another of the highlights for me 11 "In My Hour Of Darkness" what can I say? I'll never see another collection like this on one stage at one time again. Started by Victoria Williams on the first verse the set was soon filled with everyone who had been out. A beauty of a song sung and played by some of the best there are. Call me a sentimental fool but the sight of Bernie Leadon passing his mandolin to Chris Hillman in the middle of the song touched me. How about Sheryl Crow at one microphone flanked by Gillian and David on one side and Ryan and Caitlin on the other. Steve Earle and Victoria sharing another microphone and Jim Lauderdale and Emmylou on another. Hillman and Leadon just beamed at each other Gee, it was really sad when they had to do it a second time :) When it was over, they lingered on out there and shook hands and hugged each other. It was obvious that this was special for them as well as us. There were genuine handshakes between people who had never met before and hugs between old friends. Perhaps the most poignant moment of the night was the hug and expressions on the faces of the two people to whom this presumably meant the most; Chris Hillman and Emmylou Harris. They honored Gram and his music and I truly believe that everyone there felt that they had been part of something very special. Mark M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:25:26 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Harry's House & HOSL Having a chance to have a good listen to the HOSL demo recordings (thanks to all who were responsible for getting them into our hands). Over the years, I've always heard the HOSL version of Harry's House as a woman-as-hero, man-as-villain song. I was probably influenced by my age, and the times, in which business=bad, rebellion=good. Isn't it great that the woman finally gives this creep the boot? But the demo version (and the way she performs it now, interestingly), without Centerpiece, without the "When will you be home Harry?"s, becomes a really sad song of a man's loss. Indulge me for a moment. This is very cinematic, as so many of SIQUOMBs songs are. Wife tells husband they're through. Husband must go to New York on business. Yes, it's too important for him NOT to go. But the whole trip, he is detatched from all the New York that swirls around him...though his new status perhaps gives him a keener eye than before for the skinny black models. Unpacking his suitcase, staring out of the window at the people 20 stories down, imagining the businessmen heading for the meeting he can't miss, he drifts off into the memory of her shining hair and shining skin... only to be slammed down by the logical side of his mind saying "Wake up, you fool! She reeled you in. She got what she wanted, and now she's dumped you!" And on another topic entirely, do you suppose Sweet Bird and Dreamland came out of the same tropical trip? ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:06:33 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Artist's songs for their children NJC Catherine McKay wrote: > > Here's another: Annie Lennox "Precious Little Angel" (love that song!) > > OF course, Jenaya's probably all done by now! You think so??? Oh, well I have these six to add.... :-) Phil Collins - Father To Son Richard Marx - Angel's Lullaby Sinead O'Connor - My Darling Child Chris Rea - Josephine Chris Rea - Julia The Lightning Seeds - Life Of Riley There you go, Jen! Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:14:47 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Best album covers ever (now NJC) Catherine McKay wrote: > > LP covers were an artform unto themselves and CDs can't match that for > visual impact - not to mention the tiny print that old fogeys like me can't > read without a magnifying glass! Oh, it's not just "old fogeys" who have that trouble! :-) Another thing about many recent CD booklets is the trend to make the information/lyrics/running order as illegible and all-over-the-place as possible. Wildly scribbled liner notes in hand-written scrawl is particluarly gruelling. Oh, and just having a picture/design on the disc itself, with no mention of what's on it or who it's by. Do they expect us to always have the CD case with us? ;-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:25:21 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Don Rowe wrote: > > I for one, have always loved the LP cover of CMIARS. > Wonderful rich color, which stands out wonderfully > against the black. And it seems Joni knows something > I've known for a while now ... life is too short not > to have at least one really cool hat! ;-) I once saw a huge CMIARS promotional poster in the window of Tower Records in London, and in that size the qualities which Don mentions really do have a marvellous impact. My Mum has always regretted not asking the store if she could have it when the promotion was over. She loves the colours in it as well! I have to say that I also love the back-cover photograph, with its gorgeous colours and the coolest poncho.... :-) There are times when I wish that had been used as the front cover. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:32:00 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Willy (Oh, behave!) (NJC) On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Steve Dulson wrote: > Songs about kids - Loudon Wainwright III has a number of songs > about his children with Anna McGarrigle - "Rufus is a tit man" > being the only one that leaps to mind. Just a small point -- I think Rufus and his sister Martha are Kate McGarrigle's children, not Anna's. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:02:54 -0400 From: LLDeMerle Subject: Re: New Tom Rush Comp (vljc) VERY cool, thanks for posting. The only fan letter I ever wrote was to Tom Rush. 2 months ago. :D L At 11:51 AM 9/22/99 -0700, Jenaya Dawe wrote: > From Sony's newsletter- > >COMING OCTOBER 5 > >+ TOM RUSH - 'The Best Of Tom Rush: No Regrets (1962-1999)' > Features 'River Song'---a brand new recording with > Shawn Colvin! > >yay! >jen I'll second that!! LL ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v http://www.angelfire.com/ny/DeMerle/index.html de_merle@iagora.com "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." ~Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:29:46 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Little Green (JM interview excerpt from R/S) I agree with what MG said about the Rolling Store interview. Joni owes no one anything and certainly doesn't have to answer every question about her personal life withg every detail. Actually, reading the excerpt posted, I thought it gave a very good explanation (and very touching) about why she placed her child for adoption. Joni's explanation - read it again - of why she didn't have a child speaks of all the reasons that she placed her child for adoption. I was quite moved... and do not think Joni was throwing people off a path that was not theirs to walk... I think she was saying with great personal grace why she did what she did. The fact that she didn't tell Rolling Stone or us every detail is because she didn't have to, none of our business... and besides, there was a child out there with adoptive parents to think of that didn't need to be outed and thrust in adolesence into a media frenzy. (the Rev) Vince MG posted: I think that it is less throwing people off the scent of things like Little Green and more just a case of MYOB. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:25:21 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves In a message dated 9/22/1999 4:09:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluor.com writes: << This record contains Joni's best singing EVER! Her voice swoops and soars like Sarah Vaughan's, it's gorgeous! And the songs are so complex that we rarely care to discuss them, like they're too lyrically complicated or something...or maybe they were all talked out before I came aboard. >> I have been listening to this LP alot myself. I have had it since it came out but only cared to learn the words to Drycleaner because it was the only song I liked. Well, since Marian's wonderful rendition I have been listening to it alot adn I must say I truly LOVE it. If I ever wanted to listen to some GREAT jazz I know I can just put on that and I am VERY HAPPY! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:25:13 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Top Joni Tabloid Headlines ... In a message dated 9/22/99 2:35:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@apso.screaming.net writes: << For instance, we use the term pavement to mean the sidewalk and Americans use pavement to mean the tarmac on roads. >> Not necessarily true. Tarmac is a brand name for a specific type of pavement, a smooth type of asphalt, I think, that is mostly used at airports. Pavement is a generic word for any paved area and, in my experience, is used in the USA for both roads and sidewalks. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:25:14 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves In a message dated 9/22/99 2:34:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: << Now that you remind me of Mingus though, yeah, people are uncomfortable with both of those albums. But it seems that DED gets easily picked on compared to Mingus, which people at least respect, especially Joni's courageousness in making it, even if there's not much affection or appreciation for it. Debra Shea >> I think Mingus is a wonderful album, though it is only partly Joni. OTOH, I think DED is a dog and cannot think of two songs from it that I like enough to rank in her top 50 recordings. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:48:00 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: 2 Best album covers ever NJC The two best album covers ever: The Beatles (the White Album) - perfect understatement Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band - anyone of a certain age has spent hours looking at that cover - perfect statement The best Joni album cover Clouds. There it is: Joni. Perfect statement. All of the above is in my as best as possible humble opinion. As is that I agree with Catherine (I think it was Catherine but I always agree with her anyway) who said that album covers are a lost art with compact discs. All cd covers are far too small to read, appreicate, whatever, all way too busy for the small size. That is why the TI and TTT cd covers work so well... Joni, simply Joni (although I always thought that Joni looks like Queen Elizabeth I on the TI cover, from about 1590. (the Rev) Vince NP: Citizen King, "Better Days" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:51:59 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Harry's House On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Steve Dulson wrote: > Over the years, I've always heard the HOSL version of Harry's House as a > woman-as-hero, man-as-villain song....But the demo version (and the way > she performs it now, interestingly), without Centerpiece, without the > "When will you be home Harry?"s, becomes a really sad song of a man's > loss. [snip] > ...he drifts off into the memory of her shining hair and shining skin... > only to be slammed down by the logical side of his mind saying "Wake up, > you fool! She reeled you in. She got what she wanted, and now she's > dumped you!" That's interesting. I've always heard the song somewhat differently (with or without Centerpiece and the "When will you be home Harry?"s); I think it presents both Harry and the wife as trapped, victims of his jet-set business-trip lifestyle. He's caught in a cold, impersonal world ("beauty parlor blondes with credit card eyes," "battallions of paper-minded males") and separated from his wife, left with only memories - -- and she's confined to the home ("lost in house and garden"), repressed, and separated from her husband. I think Joni has compassion for both of them. I agree that it is a very cinematic song. I've always thought the last verse (and the teasing "When will you be home Harry?"s) suggested that the wife was going to take a lover (without telling Harry). - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:08:09 -0400 From: LLDeMerle Subject: Re: Little Green (JM interview excerpt from R/S) > > >(the Rev) Vince wrote: > >MG posted: I think that it is less throwing people off the >scent of things like Little Green and more just a case of MYOB. I agree, Vince, and as a writer, myself, it's the call of the one being "covered." Joni Mitchell doesn;t *owe" any explanations and the ones she has given are pretty gracious and generous. Public figure, yes, sacrificial lamb, no. LL ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v http://www.angelfire.com/ny/DeMerle/index.html de_merle@iagora.com "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." ~Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:01:07 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Diana Ross Arrested NJC Diana Ross now has a criminal record here in the UK. She objected to being searched before she boarded Concorde this lunchtime so she assaulted the guard. I hear she's changing her name to Zsa Zsa. Mark, in Seattle, Dahling ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:05:30 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Harry's House & HOSL In a message dated 9/22/99 4:19:09 PM US Central Standard Time, steve@psitech.com writes: << Over the years, I've always heard the HOSL version of Harry's House as a woman-as-hero, man-as-villain song. I was probably influenced by my age, and the times, in which business=bad, rebellion=good. Isn't it great that the woman finally gives this creep the boot?>> True, Steve, but you know Joni's never going to be THAT simple! <> Even the start of it is very sad...if you've ever been on a business trip and pulled your luggage off the carousel, it's a very lonely, isolated feeling. The image of Jonah, used to represent a man who's trying to run away from a calling, in this case the "calling" being his marriage. The wife "reels" the fish back in to tell Harry what he can do with the whole set-up. << "Wake up, you fool! She reeled you in. She got what she wanted, and now she's dumped you!">> That's a slap in the face to be sure, but don't you think the reason she's dumping him is because she *didn't* get what she wanted except hassles ("Get down from there...WHEN are you coming home Harry?") It IS very cinematic - and it is a sad song of loss for him - the things that he thought *should* matter to him (important meetings, Chief of Staff, etc.) now don't bring much satisfaction when he realizes what he's lost and all he has are memories of the good times (the "Centerpiece" section harkens to the time when that was their song, or some other time that was special to them). What does it avail a man to gain a fortune and lose his soul? Anyway, there's definitely 2 sides...Joni gives us pieces of the puzzle for both, but as always, no easy answers. God, I love her for that!! Bob NP: Free Man in Paris live from Bread & Roses ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:10:27 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Bette Midler (NJC) side-comments etc. hey joseph, >Thank you very much, Patrick for the capsule reviews of Bette Midler's >albums. you are very welcome sir. >You see, she did not really connect >with me much because I haven't seen THE ROSE it would really be worth your while to rent 'the rose', and 'divine madness'. she was really committed to filmic performance for those movies, i don't think she's ever matched them. divine madness is, of course, a concert movie. >By the way, I listened to her album BEACHES courtesy of a friend who >wanted me to be fan, and I like her songs "I Think It's Going to Rain >Today" a brilliant performance of a haunting randy newman song >"I've Still Got My Health" ditto, cole porter. all those years of singing swing songs gave bette an incredible rhythmic sense, and i can still remember my joy at her performance of this song in the movie. 'beaches' may be worth a rental for you as well; it's incredibly maudlin in places but the musical moments are just stellar. this whole thread started with 'for the boys' which is really an awful movie except when bette is singing. >The song "Under the Boardwalk" was already covered by another favorite singer >Rickie Lee Jones in her very rarely seen CD called GIRL AT HER VOLCANO, so >I relaxed to the infectious swing of Midler's performance. i love bette's version, too. i am a to-the-death fan of rickie lee, and was so happy at dougie-in-chicago's report of her wonderful concerts there last week. 'girl at her volcano' was never released on cd, a great tragedy (there may be a japanese release). i was at one of the two concerts that were the source for the live performances on that cd. 'my funny valentine', at the berkeley community theater in 1982 was one of the most emotionally wrenching moments i've ever had in the theater, i'll never forget it. >Do you recommend her album called GYPSY? Is this similar to Ethel >Merman's? > mark already weighed in on this. i don't own it. i anticipated the premiere of the tv movie so much, and was oddly disappointed. i'll have to watch/listen again. in general, i've found her live performances, albums and movies of the last few years more polished and less inspired than most of the stuff i've already reviewed. gypsy struck me a 'shtichy'. still, she has really maintained and improved her voice. patrick, not sure he'll ever get a review of the rest of the albums out. np - beaches soundtrack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:29:01 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Brown acid (NJC) MG wrote: "Now, Chris, while a favorite boyfriend, was a bit....funky. He was always fiddling in the garage, trying to make the first perpetual motion machine and things like that. We enjoyed magic tootsie rolls together as well as some mushroom and acid trips way up in the Lake Saranac region of the Adirondacks." MG- WOW! "magic tootsie rolls" I knew I had missed something. What the hell are magic tootsie rolls?? "After the trip, Chris assured me that he was not an alien, but interestingly, it was an idea that I just could not shake. I was sure that I was always finding some kind of subtle, subtle clue that this man was no earthling. It was definitely the first crack that led to our breaking up." Was this trip on "brown acid" by any chance? I knew that cat Chris, man I played the Fillmore with that dude! Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:39:08 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Latino Accent (NJC) WallyK wrote: "Even if it hadn't been a spelling mistake -- which it WAS, Paul, let me assure you that it WAS -- how could that sentence mean that I'm "REAL [sic] sick"? As it stands, the sentence doesn't make any sense at all." ACTUALLY, Wally, it made perfect sense to me. But then I have heard that sexy Argentine accent and thought that was the correct pronunciation of the word in question. Your Tabloid headlines had me rolling on the floor. David Lahm beat me to the punch with my fave line about the parking lot. Good one Dave! Behave yourself Wally and start rehearsing your set for Joni Tribute 2000 in New Orleans. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:10:00 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Gram Parsons Tribute On W54th St. In a message dated 9/22/99 2:55:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, peter.holmstedt@telia.com writes: << The Gram Parsons Tribute taping for Sessions On W54th was incredible and very likely the most amazing collection of alt. country talent that you'll ever see together. >> Yee gads!! I love Gram Parsons! His duet w/ Emmylou Harris on "Love Hurts," is an all time favorite. Does anyone have any idea when this will air? I would truly consider staying up late for this show!! MG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:04:41 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: Diana Ross Arrested NJC Not to defend my fellow Michigander Ms. Ross, but I understand that her blouse buckle set off the metal detector and some security dude started to frisk her and touched her breasts in a way that she found inappropriate and frankly I would assume that any touching of a woman's breasts in that circumstance would be offensive so she grabbed the security guard's breasts and asked him if he liked it. My first reaction to the news was that she was probably being a diva but it sounds as if Miss Ross was acting perfectly legitimately. Would anyone here think that the security guard would have done that to a white woman, or if he did that to Joni, he would would have been able to walk off the plane? Which straight man would want his wife manhandled that way (I choose the term intentionally), or any of us their partner, or their daughter? So lets give Diana a break. Her reaction was what we raise our children in Michigan to do! (the Rev) Michigan My Michigan Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:58:18 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni Sleeves i remember an interview where joni said that she had been involved in a car accident when she was recording DED. she was grateful that the car she was in was a big, strong one, otherwise she wouldn't have survived. [she said something like "if it had been a [some kind of car], it would have been totaled.] She even mentioned that the words of Good Friends were originally different: "Sometimes change comes at you like a broadside accident, you get minor cuts and bruises, you could hammer out the dents." If I remember it well, she explained that during the accident, she was pushed forward and her head broke through the windshield, but all she got were minor injuries. hope this helps, wallyk - -----Original Message----- De: dsk Para: Anne Sandstrom CC: joni@smoe.org Fecha: Miércoles 22 de Septiembre de 1999 14:23 Asunto: Re: Joni Sleeves >Anne Sandstrom wrote: > >> Wasn't Joni in a car accident about the time she was recording DED? > >Was she? I hadn't heard that. If she was, that just adds to her list of >woes in the 80s, along with being butchered by a dentist and having >everyone stealing from her (paraphrasing her words). With all that outer >turmoil happening, it's surprising she created anything during those >years. > >DS > > > ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #425 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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