From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #421 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, September 21 1999 Volume 04 : Number 421 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni's Covers [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Little Green [Steve Dulson ] Re: little green [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: little green... (and introduction) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: little green... [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Joni's Covers [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: little green... (NJC) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Joni's Covers [catman ] RE: Hello ["patrick leader" ] Re: Hello NJC [RMuRocks@aol.com] Joni in the tabloids [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Best album covers ever (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Little Green [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Joni in the tabloidsNJC [catman ] Re: little green... (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Little Green [catman ] Re: Little Green ["Mark or Travis" ] Bette Midler (NJC) part two ["patrick leader" ] Re: Joni in the tabloids (now NJC) [Janet Hess ] Re: little green... ["Kakki" ] Fwd: little green... [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Little Green [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: little green... [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: little green... njc [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Joni on another list ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Joni on VH-1 Again [Michael Paz ] Re: little green... (NJC) ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: little green ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Joni 2000 Tribute Festival [Michael Paz ] Big Day's Here!!! NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Joni on another list ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:23:53 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Joni's Covers Philip said: <> I would rate her better covers: LOTC HOSL C&S Hejira (Photography as art) Mingus S&L WTRF TI TTT (Love that shade of Green) DED would get a nod except for that 'doo! :~) Bob NP: The Feelies, "On The Roof" -------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:37:52 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Little Green Catherine McKay wrote: >That's interesting, because I thought the whole thing was such a closely >guarded secret that no one knew until Joni started searching for her >daughter - and then found her -, about the baby at all. Yet obviously >people must have known. I wonder why none of this stuff ever got into >National Enquirer or other tabloids of that kind? I remember hearing/reading that those close to Joni knew - Graham, David (Crosby and Geffin), etc. I guess some people still have enough class to keep some things to themselves. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:49:17 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: little green Hi All! I've been thinking a lot about this thread. I usually don't care to dive into Joni's personal life as it makes me feel like a gossip or voyeur. I particularly dislike the threads that try to determine the "who" Joni is speaking of when she's writing of a past lover. But I do see much value in this thread as it tries to come to a greater understanding of Joni's character, intergrity and emotional vulnerablity , whether it be at the beginning of her career or currently, which in turn, give us a greater understanding of where the author is coming from in the lyrics and moods of her songs. And I've appreciated how the posts on this thread have been intelligent, respectful and sensitive toward not only Joni, but with each other's opinions, and also the insightfulness shared based on the personal perspectives each contributor has brought to this discussion. This thread is a very good example of what I thought a discussion list was all about when I joined the JMDL, the first day I got on the net. ;-) Peace Penny ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:47:11 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... (and introduction) In a message dated 9/20/99 12:39:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << I wonder why none of this stuff ever got into National Enquirer or other tabloids of that kind? There's always someone willing to blab on someone else (not to mention the fact that much of their stuff is total fiction anyway!) >> I've never thought of Joni Mitchell as tabloid fodder....now, had Kelly been a 100 lb. infant... Gina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:02:48 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... In a message dated 9/20/99 10:11:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, asandstrom@allaire.com writes: << Perhaps it's just me, given experience I've had with people guessing (incorrectly) about what some of my songs are about - and then, in the larger scheme of things, people assuming I must feel certain things in certain proportions about not being able to have children, but I don't think I could possibly guess what Joni's feeling are/were about giving up Kilauren for adoption. And I don't have to. Instead, Joni's experience has resulted in songs I can wrap around myself to deal with my own experience. I'd rather allow Joni the privacy of her own emotions and accept her music as a gift. >> Perfectly said as far as I'm concerned, Anne. I speculate that Joni would have kept her child had she the financial means but my second-guessing goes only that far. There's nothing like over-analyzation to suck the magic and spontaneity out of virtually any experience. Though Dr. Mondgreen's style is certainty always welcome! :} I'm not even sure if I got the name right, but you know what I mean! My feelings also apply to her privacy in regard to her lovers as well as speculation about cosmetic surgery and even where she choose to dine. Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:10:54 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Covers In a message dated 9/20/99 5:34:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluor.com writes: << Philip said: <> >> I'm so glad to hear of this! It is my favorite Joni cover, though TI is by far one of the wittiest, and most apropos album covers of all time, in my opinion. Take care, Gina NP: Fisherman's Blues - The Waterboys ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:59:14 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... (NJC) In a message dated 9/20/99 4:03:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << My parents said similar things to us kids. My brother dropped out of engineering school in his last WEEK because he was so terrified that his thesis wouldn't be any good. This was a kid who was so smart that he was accelerated in school and so was about 2 years younger than his classmates at university. Fortunately one of his profs called him and told him to get his ass back and to finish his year (and he did.) >> Interesting...my husband did the almost the exact same thing, with the same discipline. He quit engineering school in the middle of the winter semester of his senior year, never to look back, much to everyone's dismay, of course. He never wanted to be an engineer in the first place. He was kinda railroaded into it because he has a genius IQ and everyone said to him: you will be an ENGINEER!! His mother cried about the loss of potential until the day she died. Why do people insist on shoving their expectations down their children's throats like that? They end up making their children as well as themselves feel like failures. Even when a child decides to try their wings at something they *think* they will like but decide they don't want to continue. "I don't know who I am but life is for learning." Amen, Joni! Sorry...I know I went totally off topic and into a whole other realm but that's why I am a firm believer in the NJC thought pattern format... Gina (trying to teach her children well...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:25:30 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni's Covers My two favourites are TI and Hejira. hejira because it is beautiful and different, stunning actually. TI because it is funny and yet sad and really fits the content of the album. Just looking at this cover you know the songs aint gonna be happy ones! And strangely enough for one who knows little about art and can't recall ever learning about Van Gogh, i knew straight away where she got that idea from. In fact I think I only learned of Van Gogh's existence from he MOA album and still wouldn't recognize 'a starry night' even if he did 'paint a starry night again, ma'. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:40:21 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Hello katie, slipped in a little nugget: I am pregnant, whoohoo!!!!!! whoohoo!!!!!! indeed. big happy congratulations to you. ashara, crank up the childcare facility for jonifest2k! katie's bringing her own little green! patrick np - jane siberry - tree ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:54:25 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Hello NJC In a message dated 9/20/99 6:45:27 PM US Central Standard Time, patrickl@bway.net writes: << whoohoo!!!!!! indeed. big happy congratulations to you. >> I second that, Katie, as long as you didn't get that belly from your parish priest! :~D I'm excited for you both! Bob NP: Sting, "The Soul Cages" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:04:49 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Joni in the tabloids In a message dated 9/20/99 3:54:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Ginamu@aol.com writes: << I've never thought of Joni Mitchell as tabloid fodder....now, had Kelly been a 100 lb. infant... >> I can remember two Joni articles in National Enquirer, (back when I had my lifetime subscription). One was a gossip column thing about her dating Warren Beatty and the other was when the situation w/ her maid and all that. No album reviews, though. Go figure.... MG np Joan Baez ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:06:58 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Best album covers ever (NJC) > Strangely there was no place on the chart for Disreali Gears, Please Please > Me, Forever Changes or my choice for chart topper - The Freewheelin Bob > > Dylan which I recall contained a beautiful girl and a '62 VW bus. > > Philip > My favorite album cover is Jefferson Airplane's 'Thirty Seconds Over Winterland'. Against a backdrop of a blue & orange sky over blue & pink clouds (it's kind of a Maxfield Parrish effect) you see a flock of toasters with clocks in their sides & white wings tinged with the same blue & pink as the clouds sprouting out of their tops. They all seem to be diving at the same angle (maybe about 30 degrees). It makes me want to giggle just thinking about it. Airplane had several good ones. 'Volunteers' had a newspaper theme on the outside but when you opened the gatefold there was this huge photo of the two halves of a peanut butter & jelly sandwich. The 'Long John Silver' cover could be folded into a stash box with some very nice looking buds on the bottom panel. And then there's 'Crown of Creation' with a double exposed photo of the band superimposed into the top of the Hiroshima mushroom cloud. Grace Slick & Paul Kantner's album 'Sunfighter' has a huge sun setting on the ocean, turning everything bright red-orange and in front of it are two arms sticking up out of the water holding up baby China Wing Kantner. Ah the days of acid, incense and balloons! Aren't you glad they're gone? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:10:37 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Little Green Actually, the more I think about it, the more I have to agree with some of the points Penny just made about the relevance of the Little Green thread. Such discussions are the stuff that good biographies are made of, to be sure. Still...I think Joni's own memoirs are going to reveal a whole lot that we can only speculate about and analyze at present. But I have mixed feelings about that as well. I maintain (and it is only how one person feels and not intended to discredit the high concept threads that routinely take place on this great list) that for *me*, there is something gained but also something lost in the attempts we make at understanding what any artist may be trying to do with any work they create. I love the poet Anne Sexton, for example. I began reading her stuff in 1979 and when her biography (a very fine out at that) was released about 5 years ago, I read it with relish. However, some of my most cherished moments reading her poetry were somewhat robbed of their magic by the background which accompanied them in the biography. I gained greater insight but I lost some of the immediacy of just letting the words form their own impressions. Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:14:18 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni in the tabloidsNJC MGVal@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/20/99 3:54:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Ginamu@aol.com > writes: > > << I've never thought of Joni Mitchell as tabloid fodder....now, had Kelly > been > a 100 lb. infant... >> well I wasn't 100lbs but I was 14lbs when born. My two brothers were forceps and long deliveries and 6lbers. I was born in 15 mins from water breaking to me on the bed. Even then i knew who I needed to get away from!So how much were YOU when you were born? > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:18:20 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: little green... (NJC) Kakki wrote so eloquently (as she *always* does): It made me become almost militant about supporting the arts and > artists. In my opinion, majoring in art is one of the hardest courses to > pursue in college. It is time-consuming, labor-intensive, expensive and you > can't simply read a few chapters in the textbook at the last minute before > an exam to get by. Even though I do not now make my living in the arts, my > choice of study has been extremely valuable to me in everything I've done > and I'm glad I took the path that I did. You're preaching to the choir, here, Kakki. I wanted to be an actor more than anything when I went to college and my parents never once tried to dissuade me from it. They encouraged me to pursue whatever goal would make me happy. I took one art course while I was in college and it was one of the most challenging and rewarding courses I ever took. Like Kakki, I did not end up pursuing a career in the arts. When push came to shove I discovered that I had neither the discipline nor the ambition to do it. I do not, however, regret for one minute the education I received, impractical as it may seem to some. Kakki mentioned some excellent reasons why an education in the arts is valuable. As a result of my training in the performing arts I gained a large measure of self-confidence that I would never have acquired otherwise. I also learned how to think for myself and formulate my own answers to many of life's more complex questions. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:19:33 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Little Green Gina-I agree. i don't really want to know what Joni means in her works. I have my own impressions. I think knwoing what she emans might ruin my enjoyment. As for the discussion of her and her guessed at thoughts and reactions and guitls etc, I can't help but feel uncomforatble. It is at such times I imagine her readin this list and it makes me cringe. Would I like to be discussed like this? would I want people who do not know me analyszing me from this point of ignorance? Meaning, when they do not know me? of course the discussions are interesting and long may they continue. I do not mean to suggest such discussions shouldn't take place, just that it brings those feelings up in me. Of course Joni might well love them and not have that cringing feeling I imagine!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:51:02 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Little Green . However, some of my most cherished moments > reading her poetry were somewhat robbed of their magic by the background > which accompanied them in the biography. I gained greater insight but I lost > some of the immediacy of just letting the words form their own impressions. > > Take care, > Gina I know just what you mean, Gina. There have been times when I have read interviews with Joni when she has explained the origins of a certain song and I've thought to myself 'well there goes my interpretation out the window'. But Joni's own words and this discussion list probably more than anything else have taught me that just because the artist intended something different or came from a different place, it doesn't mean you can't form your own interpretation or draw your own meaning from their work. We all have our own unique perspectives and personally, reading all of your thoughts and opinions has only enriched my experience of Joni and of music in general. The nature of good art makes it impossible to fix it with just one interpretation or meaning. I believe a great part of its purpose is to open the mind to many new perspectives, to change our perception by showing us the world around us in new & different ways. Joni is a master of this. So just because some event or feeling in an artist's life inspired a given work, it doesn't mean that the work can't represent something in our own lives, entirely different from what inspired it. Mark in Seattle (waxing philosophic this pm) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:50:48 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: Bette Midler (NJC) part two >Joseph > >(still awaiting for the second installment of the Bette Midler discography >review) jeez louise, these jonilisters are so demanding!! kidding, joseph, this is really a pleasure because i care so much for this music. i reviewed the first four. i've re-read that post and there're a couple of omissions and errors. i rated her first album at ***, it's certainly ***1/2 or more. songs for the new depression was rated at ****. i forgot to rate 'love at last', it's certainly another ***1/2. that's a lot of high ratings. her 'jazz-inflected vocal' chops are certainly on display in each album. so, what are you waiting for, joseph? the ratings aren't going to get any better than that; you've certainly got a place to start. anyway, here're more capsule reviews - --broken blossom (1977) - ***1/2 this is another one i love dearly; it just flows so well. also, this is one of the first ones i bought as it came out, and the strange and covers of 'say goodbye to hollywood' (billy joel) and 'red' (sammy hagar) just seemed so cool at the time, and i love them still. 'i never talk to strangers', a barroom dialogue recorded with tom waits, is brilliant, as is 'a dream is a wish your heart makes'. but there is nothing i don't love on this album. - --thighs and whispers (1979) - * three of the best ballads bette has ever recorded, including james taylor's 'millworker'. and these songs never joined her live repetoire. other than that, this is just an awful album. 5 out of 8 songs sound like the worst by-products of the end of disco. email me if you want the salvage of this mess... the rose, soundtrack (1979) - ** not a lot to say about this. rent the movie. decide if you like the songs. watch out for that overplayed hit. this is where she first sang 'stay with me', and bette's performances of that song both live and recorded, are major reasons why i revere her so much. also, a couple of monologues on the soundtrack are integral parts of betteworshiplore. divine madness (1980) i'm going to cop out a bit, and review the album and the movie together. buy them both!! she'd recorded a version of the old swing song 'big noise from winnetka' on some crap album; she opened this show with a ten-thousand-times-better arrangement of it and shook the rafters. she'd recorded a 50s song 'paradise', this show took it to a new planet. album and video include a medley of springsteen's 'e-street shuffle', goldsboro's 'summer/the first time' (it was a hot afternoon, the first day of june, and the sun was a demon), and 'leader of the pack'. both album and video close with a verse from the stones' 'you can't always get what you want' into dylan's 'i shall be released'. these are some of my favorite performances by anyone, ever. patrick jfp - siberry - lips ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:21:12 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: Joni in the tabloids (now NJC) Hmmmmm....you *had* a lifetime subscription? I've heard of the "limited lifetime warranty," but this is the first I've heard of outliving, as it were, a lifetime subscription. Is this a Big Story right under its nose that the Enquirer is overlooking? At 09:04 PM 9/20/1999 EDT, MGVal@aol.com wrote: > >I can remember two Joni articles in National Enquirer, (back when I had my >lifetime subscription). - ----------------- So when you see a man who's broken / Pick him up and carry him. And when you see a woman who's broken / Put her all into your arms 'Cause we don't know where we come from / We don't know what we are. Laurie Anderson, "Ramon" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:38:39 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: little green... Gina wrote: > Perfectly said as far as I'm concerned, Anne. I speculate that Joni would > have kept her child had she the financial means but my second-guessing goes > only that far. There's nothing like over-analyzation to suck the magic and > spontaneity out of virtually any experience. Though Dr. Mondgreen's style is > certainty always welcome! :} I'm not even sure if I got the name right, but > you know what I mean! > > My feelings also apply to her privacy in regard to her lovers as well as > speculation about cosmetic surgery and even where she choose to dine. I'm sorry that my participation in these threads have caused some of you to cringe or diminished your enjoyment of Joni's music. Guess I just get too comfortable around here sometimes. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:24:10 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Fwd: little green... - --part1_8e183287.2518626a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --part1_8e183287.2518626a_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: CaTGirl627@aol.com From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Full-name: CaTGirl627 Message-ID: <61fe21b3.25186241@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:23:29 EDT Subject: Re: little green... To: cateri@hotmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 In a message dated 9/20/1999 12:20:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << Not that I know anything about Chuck Mitchell, but maybe it seemed like a good idea at the time. Chuck wasn't even the father (does anyone know whether the father, whose name I don't remember) was even aware that Joni was pregnant with his child until this whole Kilauren reunion came about? What exactly did Chuck promise, and was it not more Joni's decision for them to split up? I do recall her saying in interviews that she married him but was thinking all the while that she could "get out of this". Youthful folly, maybe? >> Well that is probably true. When we are young we act befor thinking and even though he was not the father it did kinda sound like he promised to take on the child along with her. I have had many crappy experiences with men and at such a young age women (if you can call us that at that age) certain prefer to trust then to question... Catgirl - --part1_8e183287.2518626a_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:26:59 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Little Green "I gained greater insight but lost some of the immediacy..." I'm glad to see you saying that; I so much agree that the most valuable response to creativity is uncensored by "knowledge" about the creator's life. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:35:04 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... In a message dated 9/20/1999 1:17:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << Then you said "maybe the way she coped with the horrible pain of the whole situation of making a real wrong choice of a husband and having to give up her baby, was to go inside to the one thing she had left - her creative reservoir - and throw herself totally into it. Out of that immersion came a wealth of incredible songs, one right after the other." >> Wow! Very gooid point and right on the money in my mind. She was blessed with talent and when she had no where to turn to alone in a city what a better thing to do then to go into your imagination and dream up a happy kingdon etc? That first album is all of that and more. Her saddness just pours out of that LP and does with alot of them. I think THAT is what really brought me to her. The words, the stripped down soul searching songs that come so close to the heart you can feel it in every chord and in every word. She has been my salvation when I was my most lonliness because she was there the whole time. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:37:19 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: little green... njc In a message dated 9/20/1999 1:17:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << I don't know if it's just my age or what, but I've gone through a tremendous time the last few years thinking, almost to the point of obesssion, about "bad" things I've said or done to other people, and regretting them and wishing I could apologize to people I knew years ago, and with whom I've totally lost touch, over something I've said or done, or failed to say, or failed to do. At the same time, I've also thought about things that other people have said or done to me that were cruel and, whereas 10 years ago or so I might have wanted nothing better than to spit in their face or get some kind of revenge on them, now I think I could (in most cases anyway!) forgive them, understand them, and move on. The funny part about that is, often the things I've thought of as being so terrible, that have weighed on my mind sometimes for years, are things the wronged party doesn't even remember. I even thought about running an ad in major newspapers saying: "to anyone I ever wronged - i'm sorry!" but that's a bit precious, ain't it? >> That has been happening t me alot lately too. I want to seek at those people and tell them things about who I was back then adn how I have changed and how sorry I am for ever hurting them. When we grow up we are so inmature...... Time sometimes does help you grow up if you let it. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:25:08 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Joni on another list There was recently some "discussion" on the CSN list about Joni and how down she is on other female artists (except Sheryl Crow). This all started with the news about the Tribute album that was posted there too. I thought this guy's comments were spot on, and got his permission to repost them here - thought it might interest people - then again, maybe not. Delete at will! Anyway, in his reply he said he should probably be over here too (which I agree with) but didn't have the time. Hope he makes it one day! First post: Really the only female artist that Joan likes right now is Sheryl Crow. Second post: Then Jackson is right, she is nutso and out of touch. Personally, I think she probably smoked too much weed when she was younger. Darren's reply: Well, I can't speak to the "out of touch" comment, not knowing the woman, but it is my very strong impression that wherever she's coming from, she's not a burnout case. No one who has heard her last few albums could believe that she's not in complete posession of her faculties, both intellectual and artistic (I am reminded of a passage from Peter Schickele's "Biography" of P.D.Q. Bach, in which he refers to J.S. Bach as being "at the height of his creative powers, a position he had maintained for over 50 years"). If she's partial to Sheryl Crow, I can understand. If I were Joni, I expect I'd be incredibly bored by now with all those deeper-than-thou guitar waifs out there who are so influenced by her -- despite the fact that a few of them are extraordinarily talented. (Any Jonatha Brooke fans out there?) Crow, though she doesn't seem to have Joni-esque poetic aspirations, is a master of her craft, and refreshingly unpretentious. I don't think Joni's coming from left field on this one. Besides, who the hell are we to quibble? One doesn't argue songwriting with Joni Mitchell for the same reason one doesn't argue quantum physics with Stephen J. Hawking. They'd have to tutor you for 5 years before you could even grasp how much you don't know. Darren Zieger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:29:45 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Joni on VH-1 Again I keep missing this bit, but it's suppose to be on again on Wednesday at 9pm. It is that same 100 women in rock segment. Cheers, Michael NP-Shades of Scarlett Conquering-Me leading the Topsfield Family Singers (with Chuck improvising his ass off) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:39:57 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: little green... (NJC) Catherine said: >> My parents said similar things to us kids. >> Two of my sisters wanted to go to art school, and my Dad tried to talk >them >> out of it because he didn't think it was a good "profession" to be in. And Kakki ended her post with: >This topic always gets me soapboxing. Any of you out there who have >children showing signs of creative talent, do all you can to nurture it. I couldn't agree more! I was a "talented" artist as a child - won lots of original drawing/painting competitions - and was praised for it until about the age of 12. Then I went to high school, and was also consistently top of the class in Art (as well as usually being top in Maths, English and most other subjects!). This was allowed to continue until I was about 15 and I entered my School Certificate year (sort of like English 'O' levels - the first "external" exams, and fairly important). I was taking Art as a subject - still top of the class - and usually in the top 5% of my other subjects. A third of the way through the year my parents moved me out of the school (for other reasons) and I started at the school where my mother was a Chemistry teacher. Art wasn't in the right option group, so I had to (was made to) drop it and take ..... Chemistry! Despite the fact that I was also taking History and THAT wasn't in the right option group, so I had to spend every lesson in the Library by myself! Their excuse was that I was spending too much time on my Art projects and not enough on the others - which I would have accepted had my grades dropped, but since they hadn't I couldn't see any logic, other than they didn't want me to "waste" my time with Art. I went to University - completed a Science degree (which bored me stupid a lot of the time), and now work in an entirely unrelated field! I'm not saying I could have been the next Picasso (or Joni!), but I'm sure I could have made a comfortable living as a graphic artist/designer, and I would have been doing something I loved. I know, I know, I should go back to school, get qualified, etc., etc., if it means that much to me, but that's harder said than done! Sorry to go on about this, but like Kakki - I get soapboxing on this subject! It just annoys me when parents don't accept that a creative gift isn't as "worthy" as an aptitude for science, maths, or other academic subjects. Helen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:41:54 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: little green Robert pointed out: >Call her Green and the winters cannot fade her/Call her Green for the >children who have made her/Little Green.....be a Gypsy dancer I think the key line there is "Call her Green for the children who have made her". The fact that Joni saw herself as a child through this period says a lot (to me) about her actions, and that she couldn't cope with what she (maybe) saw as an "adult" situation. Just my 2c worth! Helen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:46:14 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Joni 2000 Tribute Festival ***********Attention all time, space, and just plain travelers ************ Soon you too can be traveling in some kinda vehicle towards beautiful N.O. I will be making an announcement next week on the dates for Joni2000Tribute Festival in New Orleans. I have spoken to the owner of the Howlin' Wolf a very cool local club for live music, and he has agreed to let me have the joint for a Sunday night. I also spoke to my wife who just happened to be in an incredibly light mood this week end and she is game to let me have my fun. I am talking to a local hotel near the French Quarter about rates under $100 which is hard during season and I will get an alternate or two for the economy conscious folks. And of course the homestead will be open to a limited amount of folks + back yard camping area amongst 32 Cypress Trees and a few Maples. After I have the dates set I will ask Les to create a list for this purpose and request some volunteers to help me organize this thing. Maybe I could just get Maggie, Chuck, Katie, Ashara, & Heather just to move here and show me how it's done! :-) I just happened to mention a little blurb about this a few days ago and I was bombarded with emails from a ton of Party Animals, so I am hoping for a record turn out. Stay tuned to this channel for the next update on this topic. Peace Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:06:27 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: Big Day's Here!!! NJC Today is the day! IT'S MARIAN'S BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!!! Happy birthday, dear angel-voiced Marian, mistress of all things Joniesque. I miss you! May all your dreams come true. WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:31:10 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni on another list Helen, Thank you for posting this. There are often many great posts about Joni on the CSN list (whose members overwhelmingly love and respect her) and I wish some of them could join us here, or if they lurk here - I wish they would post more often. I also thought Darren's post was really great and am glad Joni has finally come around on Sheryl Crow. Kakki > If she's partial to Sheryl Crow, I can understand. If I were Joni, I expect > I'd be incredibly bored by now with all those deeper-than-thou guitar waifs > out there who are so influenced by her -- despite the fact that a few of > them are extraordinarily talented. (Any Jonatha Brooke fans out there?) > > Crow, though she doesn't seem to have Joni-esque poetic aspirations, is a > master of her craft, and refreshingly unpretentious. I don't think Joni's > coming from left field on this one. > > Besides, who the hell are we to quibble? One doesn't argue songwriting with > Joni Mitchell for the same reason one doesn't argue quantum physics with > Stephen J. Hawking. They'd have to tutor you for 5 years before you could > even grasp how much you don't know. > > Darren Zieger > > ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #421 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?