From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #408 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, September 14 1999 Volume 04 : Number 408 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Instrument Bash(ing) [Louis Lynch ] Re: Aging (NJC) [catman ] Old Age (njc) [evian ] Re: NJCLost In Space/old Age [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: NJCLost In Space/old Age [Don Rowe ] NJC old age [evian ] Old Age yet again (njc) [evian ] Re: Instrument Bash(ing) (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] NJC: Storms and how to avoid them... [Kate Tarasenko ] Old age, usual whining, NJC [Steve Dulson ] Re: Old Age yet again (njc) [Heather Galli ] First 45 and Take a Free Ride (NJC) [mann@chicagonet.net] NJC Old age ["Paul Castle" ] What ever happened to 'Weed' (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Old Age yet again (njc) [catman ] Re: NJCLost In Space/old Age [catman ] Re: Old Age yet again (njc) [Jason Maloney ] Re: Old Age [Thunderthumbs ] SJC Re: Instrument Bashing and art [David Wright ] Re: Old Age yet again (njc) [MGVal@aol.com] NJC The Jonifest Movie ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: NJC The Jonifest Movie [Jason Maloney ] Re: Old Age [Thunderthumbs ] Re: Old Age [Thunderthumbs ] NJC Old age [Casey Certis-Milby ] First 45's (njc) [Vince Lavieri ] NJC Take Me Away [Vince Lavieri ] NJC Instrument Bash(ing) [Vince Lavieri ] Re: NJC Old age [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: NJC first 45 ( was Old age) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: old age/45's (njc) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: NJC The Jonifest Movie [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: NJC Old age ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Old Age NJC [RMuRocks@aol.com] Joni on VH-1 [Michael Paz ] Re: JMDL Digest V4 #400 [Wally Breese ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:55:33 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Instrument Bash(ing) Sorry, Marcel... But I don't agree. Musical instruments have souls, at least the handmade ones do. I would never think of trashing one of my harps, pianos or violins. (Nor could I afford it.) I'm biased, of course -- harps are rare and there are waiting lists for the better crafted ones. Assembly-line electric guitars may not be as valuable, but they are still crafted with some care. Think of the beautiful music never played on those guitars because a Who-boy decided to break them as toys. When I saw the Who do the smashing guitar thing, I immediately lost respect for them. They automatically moved from the "cool musician" category to the "gimmicky sideshow" category. I never thought much of them after that, and even though I still like a few of their catchier tunes, they seem really shallow. Not that there's anything wrong with the freak-show attitude on stage -- outrageous stage behavior can be a lot of fun. Performers can strip and break things and do weird things with chickens on stage all they want. But then it moves from musical performance to theatrical offering and the music becomes secondary. A true musician respects an instrument. I'm sure your spoof did the Who justice -- yours was cool because it was satire, theirs was uncool because they were trying to palm it off as music. Also, NASCAR vehicles don't fit the same category -- they're not built as vessels for art and beauty. (You don't see people going out trashing rare Deusenburgs or vintage Studebakers, do you?) You're comparing apples and glockenspiels, you know. Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:57:50 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Aging (NJC) Catherine McKay wrote: > >That counts me out. Having recently bought the house and just having >paid > >out $1300 for three of my dogs to get shagged, I am all out! > > > > Sweet Jesus - now, even DOGS have to PAY??? :D well no they don't have to-they could have one of the street mutts around but please, my girls are extrememly well bred and don't go in for no riff raff.Wallis had a boy named Homespun Tapestry imported from USA and Haley had Ch Juderry's Unsung Hero at Chergram and Martha well...there is to be a court case going on over that little dalliance. > > > cateri@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:05:38 -0600 From: evian Subject: Old Age (njc) This aging thread really interests me, especially since I am creeping up to 30 next year. Lately I have been trying in earnest to slow those circles down. All my life I have looked very young, and people still say "you haven't changed a bit since you were 8, I'd pick you out of a crowd no problem". However, lately I *do* notice that I don't look as young as I used to, and I just blame it on my goatee, saying it makes me look old. It's just so bizarre to not look 18 anymore when you get so used to it. I haven't been asked for I.D. for a good year now, and hell, I was finally looking on it as a compliment! I was talking to a student the other day who asked if I knew someone, and he said "she's about your age, 25 or so" and I was flattered that I looked 25 to this guy, but at the same time, I kept thinking "OMG, do I look 25??? I used to look 18!" It's just so.... odd to realize that you aren't a kid anymore. And at the same time, I am freaking out thinking "I am TWENTY-FRIGGING-NINE YEARS OLD and I am back in school, and even though most of the other grad students are around my age, it still gives me the willies. I always thought that when I was 30, I'd have a crapload of kids, be doing such wonderful things... you know, the usual fantasy. Well, my life IS quite wonderful. I've been married for a year to someone I've been with for 10 years come New Years Eve, I own a home, I am happy I do not have to live through my early 20's again (although it was fun, I am glad they are done), and I really have nothing too hideous to complain about, because I know that things could always be so much worse (a lesson I learn daily from watching CNN). However, I am still freaked about growing older, and actually saying "I am 30... 40... 50....etc). My wife saw a gray hair (on my chest of all places) and I just got all irrational and was yelling "it's just blonde" or "it must be paint" (yeah... even though when we DID paint our deck, the color we used was brown). I don't know... I guess I am just reluctant to think that I am in fact getting older. In some aspects, I act like I am 12 years old, and others I act as if I am 80. It's also tough for me to see my parents age, my sisters age, my relatives age, etc. I guess I am finally learning that time doesn't stand still. Also, I just want the stability of life that my parents had at my age, but then again, stability is a fleeting thing. To wrap up this rambling (can you tell I really don't want to pull myself away from this comfy chair to deal with the laundry and the dinner to be made, and the lovely deposit of doggy or kitty puke on the front door mat that I just came home to), I just have to say that I too have fond rememberances of Pong (A game I would kill to have again!), days of a 2 channel universe, seeing a movie for a dollar, days when microwaves were something out of Huxley, VCRS burst on the scene with that delightful Beta format, and when you could actually go out and buy a single that didn't set you back an arm and a leg. Oh yeah, and who could forget those wonderful shampoos that made ya yell "gee, your hair smells terrific!" or were brewed with beer ;) Your friend down memory lane, Evian np: not a darn thing ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:08:43 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: NJCLost In Space/old Age catman wrote: >>Yesterday whilst channel flucking, I cam across Lost In Space I usually let typos go, but this one cracked me up!!! ;-D Thanks for making me laugh on an otherwise trying day! Penny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:18:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: NJCLost In Space/old Age - --- catman wrote: > Yesterday whilst channel flucking "Flucking?" Is this another one of those way-cool Brit expressions? If not it's certainly the typo of the year! LOL ... Don Rowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:16:04 -0600 From: evian Subject: NJC old age Hey, am I showing my age to admit that I too watch the weather channel with fascination? It's sad when you call people up to say "Gee, the overnight low down there in Calgary is dipping pretty low, you better bring the tomatoes in now" or "Wow, I see you got a warm front moving in...". Am I turning into my father?????? And fellow Canadians, you know you are a weather channel junkie when you notice that Lila Feng has a new haircut!!!! Evian Frost warning last night here, but a nice and sunny warm September day otherwise.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:26:44 -0600 From: evian Subject: Old Age yet again (njc) > I even find a few that are pushing > >>50 are attractive. > > And of course, Godess of Love, Stevie Nicks, is 51... coo coo cachoooooooo Mrs. Robinson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Dyan Cannon, who is probably 104 by now (she never seems to give her age, but she must be... 65?) is quite fine, although all the plastic surgery is starting to make her look too Joan Rivers-ish. Older women are way sexier to me than younger women for the most part.... well... except Janeanne Garofolo.... she rules! I dunno, older women just seem to be more appealing to me.... gimme life experience and some smarts, and pop culture can keep the Ally McBeals. That's not to say that I *don't* find younger women attractive, and I admit I can sometimes be a little drooly (haven't lost the testosterone levels I had from the age of 12 yet, sad to say).... but from a relationship/dating kind of standpoint, I like older women. Ok, gotta get supper started and the door mat in the washer, or I'll rot in this chair! Evian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:29:12 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Instrument Bash(ing) (NJC) >Of course, you're right - singling out musical instruments doesn't make >much sense in comparison with so much other waste that goes on, >and not every fiddle is a Stradivarius. However.... Any one caught smashing a real piano - for the 'art' of it - is dead meat!! I recently heard of a charity that ships reconditioned uprights to the poorer parts of the world. My kind of charity!!! Anyone have more details about this organisation? PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:40:42 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: NJC: Storms and how to avoid them... Don's sage advice: "1. Always show up on time. 2. Open yourself to intimacy. 3. Be prepared to court her for the rest of your life." Your parents did right by you, brother! Sending good thoughts of safety and protection to all the list's Floridians and other East-coasters while they wait out Andrew's big brother... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:58:31 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Old age, usual whining, NJC Jimmy wrote: >I can't remember the name of the group, but the song was that obnoxious one >"They're coming to take me away ha ha". >Does anyone remember that one? By Napoleon XIV. And Catherine wrote: >It's really "Sa-LEEN-us" isn't it Yes, Lightfoot got it wrong. But I won't make any cracks about Canadians! :) While I'm here, can I remind you all - especially Catherine and Colin - to trim the quotes you send back to the list? The digests have been full of >>>>>>> lately. Excuse the whining. My prayers go out for all of you facing Floyd. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:00:42 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Old Age yet again (njc) >> I even find a few that are pushing >> >>50 are attractive. >> >> >And of course, Godess of Love, Stevie Nicks, is 51... coo coo >cachoooooooo Mrs. Robinson!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Dyan Cannon, who is >probably 104 by now (she never seems to give her age, but she must be... >65?) is quite fine, although all the plastic surgery is starting to make >her look too Joan Rivers-ish. I think you can bounce a quarter off her cheek 'cause it's pulled back so tight. Older women are way sexier to me than >younger women for the most part.... well... except Janeanne Garofolo.... >she rules! I dunno, older women just seem to be more appealing to >me.... gimme life experience and some smarts, and pop culture can keep >the Ally McBeals. That's not to say that I *don't* find younger women >attractive, and I admit I can sometimes be a little drooly (haven't lost >the testosterone levels I had from the age of 12 yet, sad to say).... >but from a relationship/dating kind of standpoint, I like older women. I think (IMHO) relationships are based totally on compatability ..... young / old.... doesn't matter. I believe we all have soulmates and when we find them is when we experience true bliss. >Ok, gotta get supper started and the door mat in the washer, or I'll rot >in this chair! OH! You're a catch! ;-) You cook, clean .... don't tell me ..... you don't do toliets, right? ;-) All in fun, Heather ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:18:37 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: First 45 and Take a Free Ride (NJC) <<14. 45 RPM records >> Oh, this is fun! My very first 45 I bought was BORN TO BE WILD by Steppenwolf. But my older brother had great 45's I used to listen to and dance to (my brother was alot older than me and, sweetheart that he was, taught me how to dance down in our basement. I remember jitterbugging with him and even slowdancing with my feet on his feet as he'd dance me around the floor.) ......some I remember (the names not the artists): 1. Angel Baby 2. Rubber Ball Anyone else remember these songs? Laura (WARNING: FREEBIE CONTENT ONLY BELOW) Potato Chip Freebie: Free Pringles Ridges 1-877-yridges (toll-free) Go to: http://www.freeride.com/ When signing up use my username code: MOPPERMA and YOU will get an automatic 50 points, otherwise you will start at zero points. The more points you have the sooner you can get free gift certificates. For example I got five $5 gift certificates for Olive Garden........that's $25 off one restaurant bill, $20 certificate for Bath & Body works and a $15 certificate for Funcoland. Basically you gotta surf which entails clicking on destinations at their site. It's easy and takes a little time but if you want the certificates (as good as cash) it's worth it. If you have any questions about it..............just ask me! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:29:22 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: NJC Old age Bob asked:- >Anybody else remember their first 45 purchase? The Wanderer by Dion or was it Runaway by Del Shannon? Mind you, the first 78 I bought was 'I'm a Pink Toothbrush, You're a Blue Toothbrush' by Max Bygraves or was it 'Never Do a Tango with an Eskimo' by Alma Cogan. PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:34:39 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: What ever happened to 'Weed' (NJC) Catherine wrote: (God knows why!) >does anyone remember Bill and Ben, the Flowerpot Men? Steve wrote: (age-istly) >>Busted! This Brit remembers them. And I'll bet Paul Castle does, too, >'cause I know how old *he* is.... "Flobalob" to you! PaulC Are you sitting comfortably? (not for long, hrmph, hrmph!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:36:00 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Old Age yet again (njc) Speaking og ally McBeal, I saw callista(?) on the Emmy's last night. I hadn't noticed this on the program, but she is really very pretty. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:39:56 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJCLost In Space/old Age Don Rowe wrote: > --- catman wrote: > > > Yesterday whilst channel flucking > > "Flucking?" Is this another one of those way-cool > Brit expressions? 'fraid not. Just my finger missed-they are right next to eachother you know! > If not it's certainly the typo of > the year! LOL ... > > Don Rowe > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:22:18 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Old Age yet again (njc) Heather wrote: > I think (IMHO) relationships are based totally on compatability ..... young > / old.... doesn't matter. I believe we all have soulmates and when we find > them is when we experience true bliss. Wow...I've been away from the computer for 12 hours, and this thread has really taken off. I am thoroughly enjoying reading through everyone's contributions. There has been a lot of common sense, humour, insight and just about everything else thrown in for good measure :-) The point about "older" women, and what they are often perceived as valuing/looking for in a realtionship/partner, is something which I can relate to with my own situation. Huh? Well, as Heather, Catherine and others have mentioned, the common perceptions are not necessarily true in all cases. I can only cite my own experience, and it's one that finds me on the threshold of a very wonderful relationship with a woman eleven years my senior, who's a working girl , and has grown weary of neglecting her true emotional and spiritual self through everyday toil. She is dissatisfied with the shortcomings of the type of males she has spent her adult life dating. She did have a fiancee with whom she was planning to settle down, but he contracted cancer and passed away at that "vital" age for a woman in her early-to-mid 30s. Children, and a "conventional" married existence, appeared to have passed her by in her view, as the opportunities of finding "Mr. Right" were limited by her grief and unease at having to start all over again from scratch in her late 30s. If anything, it's given her a chance to re-establish what is important to her for happiness with someone else (this is what she tells me, I do not claim to be psychic!). All of the things which the "ladies" among us have cited as appealing in a potential partner hold true for her also. I am glad they do, for otherwise I would never have stood a chance ;-) As well as the age difference, there's the distance factor (some 5,000 miles), and the contrasting backgrounds and life experiences. However, something just clicked....like Heather says, there are times when it's simply a matter of two soul mates finding each other. She's not Shania Twain, Anna Friel, Nicole Kidman, Geri Halliwell, Claire Danes or any of the other two dozen women I have a soft spot for , but what we have seems to transcend all that. I've never known or imagined anything quite like it, and we both revel in its purity and safety. I am rambling... :-) Just felt I had to chip in with this little tale. So much of what has been said during this discussion brought my own situation to mind. We met on a music mailing list (not this one), so the internet has been a truly worthwhile investment for me. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:35:41 -0400 From: Thunderthumbs Subject: Re: Old Age Paul, I strongly dissagree with you on your last point, and I'd be hard pressed to believe your first point, but that wouldn't mean that I wouldn't try to believe you on both accounts. Nevertheless, I appreciate your opinions on these matters. Thanks. -Brad IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/14/99 7:22:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ddietz@erols.com > writes: > > << I'm kind of stuck between worlds. It's rather interesting and maybe > even slightly uncomfortable to see a soccer mom in the Caravan or the 35 > year old business professional, and think of her in anything approaching > romantic terms. I have nothing to offer them. I've seen it all too often > to deny that women tend to date older guys, not much younger ones. >> > > I've no doubt there are plenty of women in their 30s who would be attracted > to a guy your age, but if you "think" you've nothing to offer them, then you > don't. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:39:20 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: SJC Re: Instrument Bashing and art On Tue, 14 Sep 1999 MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > What is this nonsense about breaking guitars....back to the Whos > early career breaking of all their instruments including amps and > drumkits, they did it to symbolize the ultimate finality of their act > for that night. That no other band could follow their act. It > worked....Musical instruments arent sacred on the whole. Amen to that!! I enjoyed your post, Marcel. Paul C. wrote: > Any one caught smashing a real piano - for the 'art' of it - is dead > meat!! Well, you'll be happy to know that on the "high-art" end of the instrument-smashing spectrum, there's an avant-garde New Zealand composer named Annea Lockwood who has pieces in which pianos (uprights, I think) are destroyed -- one in which a piano is dropped from a helicopter into a lake, another in which the piano is set on fire and miked to catch the sounds of the strings snapping. (I'd like to hear that.) She also writes relatively conventional, less theatrical works -- the ones I've heard are beautiful. Harper Lou objected: > A true musician respects an instrument. Well, Pete Townshend said something to the effect of, "I smash guitars because I love them." I don't defend every act of instrument-smashing, but I think that true musicians, besides respecting an instrument, also know the limitations of the instrument (any instrument); and they also recognize it for what it is -- an *instrument,* not an end in itself. I think there's a very humanistic message behind the instrument-smashing of Lockwood and of The Who -- like the annihilation of the instrument as a symbolic annihilation of the barriers to communication and emotional expression. Just like some emotions are too strong to be described in words -- words can be a barrier to expressing the emotion. I think Joni gets at this when she speaks of being "*condemned* to wires and hammers" and of "broken trees and elephant ivories" *concealing* emotion ("every chord that you feel"). Therefore the destruction of the instrument symbolically *reveals* that emotion -- liberates that emotion from the instrument. And because that emotion fundamentally comes from the *person*, I can see the destruction of musical instruments as an affirmation of humanity -- and isn't that what good music/art is about? - --David P.S. I think there's a long tradition in music of the music maker trying to transcend his/her instrument that instrument-smashing gets at the heart of. The slide guitar style of the delta blues, for instance, is an attempt to emulate speech, to make the instrument talk -- i.e., to transcend its instrument-ness. (An instrument, by definition, doesn't talk for itself.) Among the old Delta bluesmen/women, one of the highest praises for a slide guitarist was, "He can make that guitar talk just like a natch'ul man." And even in the classical piano repertoire (which I've studied), many of the greatest of all piano pieces are/were considered "unplayable" or "unpianistic" (Mussorgsky's _Pictures at an Exhibition_, for example). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:39:47 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Old Age In a message dated 9/14/99 7:38:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ddietz@erols.com writes: << Paul, I strongly disagree with you on your last point, and I'd be hard pressed to believe your first point, but that wouldn't mean that I wouldn't try to believe you on both accounts. Nevertheless, I appreciate your opinions on these matters. Thanks. -Brad >> Of course you disagree with me, because it is your own attitude that must be adjusted, not your situation. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:52:51 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Old Age catman wrote: > > Men who have it, imo: > Kieth Carradine (no not the kung foo guy-his brother) > Keanu Reeves(younger I know) > Richard Geere(who i didn't think was till he went grey) > Ed Harris > George Clooney(although not at first cos I disliked his character in ER till > they changed him) > Jimmy Smits Anyone notice Colin includes the two men who I mentioned when first talking about my attitude to ageing? Clooney and Gere....seems they really do posess a certain appeal :-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:41:39 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Old Age yet again (njc) In a message dated 9/14/99 4:13:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jason.maloney@virgin.net writes: << Children, and a "conventional" married existence, appeared to have passed her by in her view, as the opportunities of finding "Mr. Right" were limited by her grief and unease at having to start all over again from scratch in her late 30s. If anything, it's given her a chance to re-establish what is important to her for happiness with someone else >> I was glad to read this and I'm very happy for you and your partner. One thing that can drive me mad is when people insist on "traditional" relationships or settle for something else as a second best. I'm an advocate of marriage and children, but it's not the only way to have a wondreful relationship. Many people don't get that and I am thrilled that your partner has been able to get to the core of what works for her. I can really relate, having spent the bulk of my past 5 years of singlehood learning big lessons about that and it's help me to be a person I simply could not be 10 years ago. And as you pointed out, Jason, terrific posts by all on this subject. MG - redoing her floors in lieu of Mr. Right. (:-D ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:44:21 -0400 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: NJC The Jonifest Movie At 03:26 PM 9/14/99 -0600, you wrote: >younger women for the most part.... well... except Janeanne Garofolo.... >she rules! As self aggrandizing as this might sound---oh what the heck, you guys know me to be pretty much full of it anyway, so here goes: if I had to pick anyone who Id want to play me in a movie it would be Janeanne Garofolo. I love her moxie. I wish I could be that funny, that self-deprecating, that intelligent and especially that strong of a person. (Plus I'd love having Ben Stiller as a best friend.) I thought it was a sign of Janeanne's "presence" that she was able to upstage Uma Thurman in "Cats and Dogs," in fact, when sharing the screen with Janeanne---Uma managed to somehow look haggard and hallow-eyed. I was disappointed in the way that the movie ended because Uma "won" the guy, it made no sense. Who would you want to play **you** in a movie? I can see the movie "The Jonifest Experiment," a group of wannabe singers and musicians come together for a weekend of mystery, passion and intrigue...a quirky 'who-done-it' guaranteed to keep you guessing to the very end. Remember don't ruin the ending! directed by Lawrence Kasden****with an all star cast: Starring: Ben Affleck as "BobM" Tom Hanks as "Les," Winona Ryder (with long hair) as "CatGirl," Antonio Banderas as "Wally K," Janeanne Garofolo as "JulieZW," Jennifer Anniston as "Kakki," Meg Ryan as "MG," Sarah Michelle Geller as "Maggie," Kevin Spacey as "Mark/Travis," Neve Campbell as "Terry," Peter Fonda as "ChuckE," Ashley Judd, as "Jody," Mathew Broderick as "Patrick," Jody Foster as "Heather," Nicholas Cage as "Paz," Ally Sheehy as "ZaPuppy," Mira Sorvino as "Marion," Will Smith as "Bryan," Robert Downey Jr. as "BrianG" Steve Martin as "RickyLee," Sarah Jessica Parker as "Kate from the Cape," Edward Norton as "KennyfromNY," Benicio Del Toro as "Roberto" Minnie Driver as "Laura," Sean Penn as "Bern," Kate Winslett as "Pearl" William Hurt as "JonVanTiel" Christina Ricci as "Gina," JoAquin Phoenix as "Jeff," RinTinTin as "Pippin," and Madonna as.... "Ashara" Coming to a theater near you.... Julie, typing away while observing 6 neighborhood boys playing a Pokemon card game. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:11:02 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: NJC The Jonifest Movie Julie Z. Webb wrote: > > As self aggrandizing as this might sound---oh what the heck, you guys know > me to be pretty much full of it anyway, so here goes: if I had to pick > anyone who Id want to play me in a movie it would be Janeanne Garofolo. I > love her moxie. I wish I could be that funny, that self-deprecating, that > intelligent and especially that strong of a person. (Plus I'd love having > Ben Stiller as a best friend.) > I thought it was a sign of Janeanne's "presence" that she was able to > upstage Uma Thurman in "Cats and Dogs," in fact, when sharing the screen > with Janeanne---Uma managed to somehow look haggard and hallow-eyed. I was > disappointed in the way that the movie ended because Uma "won" the guy, it > made no sense. I absolutely LOVE that movie...in fact, my female US friend and I watched that together as our home date movie when she visited this spring :-) Janeane is adorable and so real in it...and you are right, she outshone Uma in every department. Not sure about your recollection of the ending though....watch it again! > Who would you want to play **you** in a movie? Julie, I had to chuckle at your JMDL cast list :-) Who would I like to play me? Hmmm...that's a thought. Maybe Ewan Mcgregor or Johnny Depp. Yep, definitely Johnny...he could handle my quirky nature and situation the best. He's also fairly similar-looking, so that'd be a help. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:03:38 -0400 From: Thunderthumbs Subject: Re: Old Age Bob, Actually, the sexual benefits, or problems of older women- whatever the may or may not be (as referenced in your last paragraph) provided 0% motivation to write about the issue. Just setting the record straight. Sex was a non-issue here, but it is an interesting topic, one of which I could not speak about in this regard... Anyone else, please feel free. Wrinkles on the other hand are interesting. The one girl I did happen to meet over these post-college years has a little bit of crow's feet forming at her eyes, and I do like it a lot on her. It adds character. Weird, I know. Thanks for your comments, and your defense too. No, I'm not taking sides here... -Brad Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: > > Colin said to Brad: > > <> > > Colin, this wasn't directed to me but I find it very offensive. Was it > intended as a joke? It didn't come off like one. > > Why does he need help? Why can't women pushing 50 be attractive? I know > it's common, especially in America, to believe that youth=beauty and vice > versa, but it's certainly not a theory I subscribe to. I know many women in > their 50's and up that are attractive AND also sexy as hell! There is a > real beauty in a face that revels in the wrinkles of experience and the > eyes of wisdom. > > Now women who are 50 and try to look and/or act 20 are embarrassing (same > with men), but women who celebrate their years instead of trying to escape > them? Very attractive indeed. > > One of the coolest things Joni said last year in Atlanta was in regards to > turning 55...she commented that our President was the same age, and HE was > still pretty frisky! (Or something to that effect). And believe me, plastic > surgery or not or whatever, Joni is one attractive/beautiful/gorgeous > lady!! She realizes and says that she's no longer an ingenue, sure doesn't > mean she's not attractive... > > You should either apologize to Brad or explain what you meant by telling > him that he needs help. Sounds to me like the only help he needs is hooking > up with one of these "Sugar Mamas", after all, in the words of Benjamin > Franklin, they don't tell, they don't swell, and they're grateful as hell! > :~) > > Bob > > NP: Raised on Robbery ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:16:56 -0400 From: Thunderthumbs Subject: Re: Old Age Paul, I can admit that maybe there some attitude adjustment needed, however, I'm not a "woe is me" kind of person that I am coming to the perception that you think I am. If I complain or express some thought or emotion, I'd like to think there is some real discernible, plausable merit and reason to what I'm saying, as opposed to just brushing it off as "I need an attitude adjustment", or similar sentiments thereoff. I just may be a little deeper and thought out than you might give me credit for. Once again, I appreciate your opinions. -Brad IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/14/99 7:38:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ddietz@erols.com > writes: > > << Paul, > I strongly disagree with you on your last point, and I'd be hard > pressed to believe your first point, but that wouldn't mean that I > wouldn't try to believe you on both accounts. Nevertheless, I appreciate > your opinions on these matters. Thanks. > -Brad >> > > Of course you disagree with me, because it is your own attitude that must be > adjusted, not your situation. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:17:16 -0700 From: Casey Certis-Milby Subject: NJC Old age > Do you remember . . . . . > > 2. Wax Coke-shaped bottles with colored sugar water > When I was in college in the early 1970's I worked in a factory in Buffalo, NY that MADE these (along with candles and lots of other wax junk) during the summer. There are two things I remember very clearly: reeking so strongly of all the scents used in the candles that no one would sit near me on the bus on the way home; and fighting so hard against being anesthetized by the never-ending mindless monotony of the work that I sang complete Joni albums (low, couldn't be heard in the factory noise) from beginning to end. They marked the time, which otherwise seemed unmeasurable and interminable, and grounded me in what was human and "real." It is the worst job I ever had, and without Joni I would not have been able to do it ( a blessing or a curse?) BLUE was the latest and greatest then, and I must have sang it a hundred times that summer. Casey - -- "It is good to have an end to journey towards; but it is the journey that matters in the end." U.K.LeG. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:57:44 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: First 45's (njc) My very first 45 was 'The Theme from "The Cardinal"' by Nick Nobel. I have no recollection why now. My very second 45 was "I Want to Hold Your Hand" followed by "She Loves You" and "Please Please Me" and "Thank You Girl/Do You Want to Know a Secret" and then "Twist and Shout/Roll Over Beethoven" and then "Hard Days Night" and you all get the idea. I was so silly when I bought "I Want to Hold Your Hand" I waded through the mob at the record store and said to the clerk, "I want a Beatles record." And my first album was, of course, "Meet the Beatles." I made my mother buy it for Christmas and I held it periodically in the weeks before Christmas just dren it and play it. The only other artist who evokes those feelings in me still is some Canadian singer whose name needs no mention. (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:03:13 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC Take Me Away Catherine McKay wrote: > >I can't remember the name of the group, but the song was that >obnoxious > >one > >"They're coming to take me away ha ha".Does anyone remember that one? > > Unfortunately yes. I do remember it but, like you, not the name of the > song. Just more lines: > "... to the funny farm > where life is beautiful all the time." > Vince sings: Remember when you ran away I got down on my knees and begged not to leave I'd simply go berserk? Well, you left me anyay and now the days go by .... da da da... and they're coming to take me away, ha ha, to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time Some else please fill in what I forget;I know someone out there can do it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:14:41 -0400 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: NJC Instrument Bash(ing) For those old enough to remember the film Monterey Pop which came out in 1969, the film of the Monterey Pop Festival of 1967 which was such a momentous event in rock history, seeing it on the big screen beack in the day when we were young and naive, Townsend smashed his guitar and Moon kicked the drums over after doing My Generation but then Jimi Hendrix came out and made love to his guitar, smashed it, gentry rocked over it while he poured lighter fluid on it, and burned it... I think I know what they were saying artisticly but I cannot express it and Hendrix's act in that time period on the big screen while he was still alive was incredibly erotic and made the Who's thing look like frat boys on the loose. You had to see it then, I guess, in that contexty before we were all jaded, to remember when things had impact and sometimes were not just gimmicks. Does Henry Rollins ever smash a guitar, or does he just like he did? (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:21:28 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Old age In a message dated 9/14/1999 4:39:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, revrvl@pathwaynet.com writes: << To whoever compared age to a record player, that as it plays, the closer to the end, the faster it goes, if you are old enough to remember records (as I am) you are old. (the Rev) Vince >> I am at a kind old age of 36. Back when I was 14 we would take the train down to Philly to Third Street Jazz and buy tons of records. They were all around 4.99 or some where near that price. It was one of my foundest memories of my youth! Catgirl NP: Yellow Submarine remastered CD! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:49:40 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: NJC first 45 ( was Old age) > > <<14. 45 RPM records >> > > The first 2 I bought were "Time of The Season" by the Zombies & "Dizzy" by > Tommy Roe. Anybody > else remember their first 45 purchase? Georgy Girl by the Seekers Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:53:46 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Old age In a message dated 9/14/1999 3:23:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << 17. Metal ice trays with levers>> This is probably when I learned to cuss...whoever invented these contraptions should be beaten with one full of frozen water... <<25. Wash tub wringers (get serious! how 'bout a rock and a >mountain stream while you're at it!)>> We had one of these when I lived in the Marshall islands, circa 1962/3...right in the kitchen! Bob >> Ohhhhh I so agree with the ice cube tray do dads! What a mess they were. They never worked and the plastic things that seperated the ice would always break. My nanny had a wringer waher machine. she would hang out all her laundry. that was way back in 67! I wa only 3 but that is one of the few memories of my Nanny I have! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:16:29 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: floyd NJC In a message dated 9/14/99 1:51:16 PM US Central Standard Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << They say S.C. is going to get it, too - Bob, have you battened down the hatches? >> 'Preciate you thinking of me, Kakki - actually we're inland enough so that we should be OK. We do have a cousin and her family, and her neighbors (6 total) heading up the road from Charleston, which looks like it'll bear the brunt of it...We might just have another Jonifest! :~) Bob, NP: Ben Folds Five, "Mess" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:21:36 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: re: old age and unsubscribing (NJC) From: "Takats, Angela" Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:57:43 +1000 Hey there Listers, All this talk about old age....can't say that I can relate, being such a spring chicken ;-) But I must say that you all seem very young at heart and those smiles on your faces at jonifest are as youthful as they come! By the way...I have to un.sub.scribe for a few weeks while I get my new job sorted out...otherwise my email address will go into overload mode....I'm going to miss the list heaps, but hopefully I'll be back very soon...take care of each other :-) Bye from Ange - - Across the sea in Sydney, nervous about her new job, sad to leave the list for a week or two. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:37:46 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: old age/45's (njc) My first 45 was It's My Party (And I'll Cry If I Want To). Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:43:31 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC The Jonifest Movie In a message dated 9/14/99 5:46:18 PM US Central Standard Time, jzw@visint.com writes: << Starring: Ben Affleck as "BobM" >> Wow, Julie, you really put a lot of work into that one! But if Ben has any love scenes with Mira Sorvino, I get dibs on being his stunt double! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:45:00 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: NJC Old age and fighting so hard > against being anesthetized by the never-ending mindless monotony of the > work that I sang complete Joni albums (low, couldn't be heard in the > factory noise) from beginning to end. They marked the time, which > otherwise seemed unmeasurable and interminable, and grounded me in what > was human and "real This reminds me of a job I had during one of my summer breaks from college. I worked in a foundry that made cast parts for tractors & other machinery. My job was in what they called the cleaning room. Basically I stood at an electric grinding wheel all during my shift and ground the rough edges off of small steel cast parts. I also sang to myself to pass the time. The noise level was such that no one could possible hear me unless they stood right next to me and leaned towards me. I don't think I'd discovered Joni yet, though. It was Carly Simon that I was singing to myself in those days. No Secrets, mostly. Are you out there, Colin? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:53:13 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Old Age NJC Brad said: << Actually, the sexual benefits, or problems of older women- whatever the may or may not be (as referenced in your last paragraph) provided 0% motivation to write about the issue. Just setting the record straight. Sex was a non-issue here, but it is an interesting topic, one of which I could not speak about in this regard. >> Oh, I just threw that Ben Franklin quote in as a gag, although the blues band Saffire includes that quote in their tune "I Need A Young Man to Drive Away my Middle Aged Blues". I was talking more about the ATTRACTIVENESS of 50ish women which wasn't really directly related to sex. Anyway, stupid American that I am, I missed Colin's sarcasm...but it's been a great thread, I love a busy list! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:59:24 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Joni on VH-1 Hello Gang- According to RockOnTV, Joni will be on VH-1 on Wednesday after 10 pm. It is the 100 Greatest of Rock and Roll. Hope this isn't redundant. Peace Michael NP-The Sire of Sorrow- Marian and Catgirl (The Friday Night Session) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Sep 99 20:02:18 -0700 From: Wally Breese Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #400 Hello everyone, There seems to be a great deal of interest in the soon to be released JM tribute album, so here's what I know so far- This is a portion of a conversation that I had with Julie Larson, executive producer of the tribute album, earlier this year. We plan to talk one more time now that the project is finished, and then my entire IV with Julie will be put up on JM.COM. Enjoy this snippet! Later, Wally The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.jonimitchell.com - ----------- A Conversation with Julie Larson by Wally Breese- March 1999 - -----------

Wally: Let's talk about the upcoming Joni Mitchell tribute album which you're in charge of.

Julie: I'm the sole executive producer. It's one of the projects I'm doing this year and I've had some difficulty finishing it up because of the holiday season (1998). We also have to go back to what Joan feels is honour. The record company and I fought about which bands were asked to be on the record. They wanted the top selling new bands and Joni didn't feel they were strong enough. I had to turn down many performers besides Morrissey, to mention one artist. Many platinum-selling artists were eliminated because Joni didn't feel it was an honour. Her favourite rendition is by Janet Jackson on "The Beat Of Black Wings." Also Etta James did a tremendous version of "Amelia." I think the problem that I've really run into is that the women have responded in droves, but I'm having a bit more of a difficult time getting men interested. So it's very unbalanced.

Wally: Who have you recruited as far as males go?

Julie: Elvis Costello, that's it.

Wally: No Sting or Seal?

Julie: No. Sting and I made a deal about three months ago and his manager Miles Copeland is really brutal and first thing he just flat out denied me. I had a conversation with him at the Don Henley Walden Woods benefit and then I talked to Miles. Sting was doing the soundtrack for a new movie, or some movie that was out that didn't do too well and so basically I went to Joan and said "If you do his album, he'll do your album on the same terms because we're talking about no money." But it wasn't for a tribute album. It was just her rendition of one of his songs. It was an even trade and she felt it was very fair. The problem was that we had a two week window to do this and she was preparing for the tour and editing the TV special, so it would have been impossible for her to go into the studio and do the song, so they cut me down and said, "Well, since you didn't come up with the track within the couple of weeks, we're not doing it."

Wally: Oh, too bad!

Julie: So Sting is not available. We're really working on the Rolling Stones, but it's very difficult with their busy schedules.

Wally: Joni wants them to cut "Cold Blue Steel And Sweet Fire."

Julie: Yes.

Wally: Have you talked to them at all about it?

Julie: I've talked to Jane Rose. We want to start with Keith Richards and work with the Dust Brothers on this. And have Keith do the track with them and then send the tape to Mick and if that doesn't work, I may have Steven Tyler sing the lead. So I'm mixing and matching and doing things with people that Joni appreciates and admires, but again with all of the dissention in those camps, it's been close to impossible. I'm very close to signing Vince Gill and Stevie Wonder at this point.

Wally: Good!

Julie: And it's been difficult because as I told Joni "This is a tribute to you and you can't have control over everything. If people want to pay tribute to you, you should just sit back and take it."

Wally: Oh, absolutely! I think the saluted artists in these cases should stay out of it. Van Morrison got too deeply involved with his tribute album and I think that it suffered because of it.

Julie: Well, Joni's very involved in it. But as I said, the female contributions are very heavy and there's still more female tracks to come. I'm waiting for 2 tracks from Bjork to arrive. And Madonna may do something. Really the only female artist that Joan likes right now is Sheryl Crow.

Wally: Really?! Because I've heard Joni slag Sheryl. (Laughs)

Julie: She did slag her, and they got into a big fight. And then Sheryl sent Joni a letter and Joni appreciated that. Now she has a renewed admiration for her music. It settled their differences, and as far as new music goes, Joni feels Sheryl is probably the best of the bunch.

Wally: Well, Sheryl's kind of from the old guard anyway. I mean, she could be a songwriter from the 70s.

Julie: Yes, exactly.

Wally: Unfortunately, Joni probably hasn't heard a lot of the younger groups who might very well do a good version and also, like the company wants, help sell the album.

Julie: I tried desperately to get Eric Clapton but he wasn't available. It's difficult when you're dealing with other companies. So, if we get Warner Bros/Reprise artists, it's easier. I've been dealing with Seal for the past year.

Wally: What's happening with him?

Julie: Well, everybody's trying to do what's best for their artist and the company felt like since Joni has already sung on his record and he sang on hers that that should be the end of their association. And so it's really not his decision but management. They feel that it might be too much exposure or it might conflict with his album. But at this point his album is already out, so the timing might be better now to approach him. It's very challenging to negotiate these deals.

Wally: So you have not only the problem of getting the artists but you have problems with Joni not wanting certain people on the album?

Julie: Yeah, that really more than getting the artists. Let me tell you, I've turned down so many artists.

Wally: What artists have you already recorded? Do you remember?

Julie: Yes. There's Janet Jackson. Do you want the song titles?

Wally: Yes, please!

Julie: Janet Jackson: "The Beat Of Black Wings." k.d. lang: "Help Me." Sarah McLachlan: "Blue."

Wally: The version that's on one of her B-sides?

Julie: Yes. The exact same version. Then there's Elvis Costello doing "Edith And the Kingpin."

Wally: Oh my!

Julie: We also have Etta James doing "Amelia." Chaka Kahn doing "Hejira." Let me think, I'm missing a woman somewhere! Anyway, I do anticipate Vince Gill, I do anticipate Seal, and also the All Star Jazz Band with Stevie Wonder. There's a possibility of Neil Young doing a track. Bob Dylan. We've gone through list after list after list after list. I tried desperately to get James Brown and Chuck Berry because Joni really admires black artists. Ray Charles is also someone we may use. I wanted him to do "A Case Of You." We had difficulties, but the door hasn't been completely closed on that deal.

Wally: So it sounds like you have six or seven cuts finished?

Julie: I have seven. Six cuts finished and Bjork is doing two. She's doing "Jericho" and "The Boho Dance," and we'll probably only use one of the songs. (to be continued soon on www.jonimitchell.com)... - ---------- For those who want it simply as a list- Janet Jackson: "The Beat Of Black Wings." k.d. lang: "Help Me." Sarah McLachlan: "Blue." Elvis Costello: "Edith And The Kingpin." Etta James: "Amelia." Chaka Kahn: "Hejira." Bjork: "Jericho" or "The Boho Dance." (3-5 additional songs have been recorded since last March by other artists. More info soon...) - ---------- Later, Wally Breese The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #408 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?