From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #398 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, September 10 1999 Volume 04 : Number 398 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Sex (was What a Country and Lolita) NJC [David Wright ] Re: throat-singing (NJC) [David Wright ] Re: Joe Cocker "You Can Keep You Hat On" [Heather Galli ] Re: A Visit to the Dentist - Long [Heather Galli ] Re: Child abuse/precocious kids - NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Lolita (NJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: Joe Cocker "You Can Keep You Hat On" [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joe Cocker "You Can Keep You Hat On" - NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Blue LP Reissue?/Background music [Jenaya Dawe ] Re: Soundtracks (njc) ["Mark or Travis" ] [none] ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Blue LP Reissue?/Background music NJC [RMuRocks@aol.com] RE: [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: NJC - kids and sexuality [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Child abuse/precocious kids - NJC [Jason Maloney ] Re: NJC - kids and sexuality [Jason Maloney ] Re: Joe Cocker "You Can Keep You Hat On" [Heather Galli ] Re: NJC - kids and sexuality [Jason Maloney ] Re: NJC - kids and sexuality [rachel kramer bussel ] Hejira on Dave Gregory's Top 10 [RMuRocks@aol.com] Soundtracks (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] skating / Hejira [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Soundtracks (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Lolita (NJC) [catman ] Flours of Deep Feeling (NJC) [Leslie Mixon ] Re: Joni LP News- 2 [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: NJC - kids and sexuality [catman ] Re: Flours of Deep Feeling (NJC) [catman ] Re: Joni LP News- 2 [catman ] LauraNJC [catman ] Re: Happy to share in your delights. (NJC) [Ashara@aol.com] Re: set lists, pictures, recording njc [Ashara@aol.com] Re: Bob, show thyself (NJC) ["Paul Castle" ] Re: NJC - kids and sexuality [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: NJC Bob's lying! [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Joni thought [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joe Cocker "You Can Keep You Hat On" [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: NJC - kids and sexuality [Jason Maloney ] RE: NJC - kids and sexuality [Jenaya Dawe ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:27:37 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Sex (was What a Country and Lolita) NJC On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, evian wrote: > It's like everyone I grew up with went from Scooby Doo to the > pill in one fell swoop. And then they went back to Scooby Doo again ("Gen-X" nostalgia thing). ;) - --David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:30:16 -0400 (EDT) From: rachel kramer bussel Subject: NJC - kids and sexuality Hi... I'm a bit behind on reading this thread, but I wanted to say that it's really tough to generalize about all kids or even all people of a certain age, because the maturity levels are so different. I think there are probably some people who *are* mature enough to handle a sexual relationship with someone at age 12 or 13 but not the majority, and then some aren't going to be mature enough at 18, but nobody can stop them, and truthfully, even with statutory rape laws, if kids want to be exploring sex, they will. I think it's a hard call to say that the older person should always turn away the curious/eager young person. Even if that younger person later concedes that they made a mistake with the older person, it's their right to live their life and make mistakes and learn along the way. I don't think that's it's always 100% the older person taking advantage of the younger, because the younger can still make decisions and choices for themselves. - -- Rachel "Sexuality is not a frill, and it's not a luxury appearance; it's a part of your life whether you're flush or famished, living under dictators or parliamentarians. It has its own unique relationship to history, and it will not shut up." -- SUSIE BRIGHT, _FULL EXPOSURE_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ my Mary Lou Lord page is at http://pages.nyu.edu/~rkb200/ to join Sexwise, go to http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/sexwise read my sex column "The Lusty Lady" at http://members.tripod.com/ctomag ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:35:38 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: throat-singing (NJC) On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Kate Tarasenko wrote: > There's a wonderful group from central Europe called Huun-Huur-Tu, the > Throat Singers of Tuva. A small note: that should be central Asia. Tuva is an autonomous (?) Russian republic bordering on Mongolia (where I think they have similar throat-singing styles). Some of Huun-Huur-Tu's albums are on Shanachie, and they're also on a couple Kronos Quartet albums. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:51:59 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Joe Cocker "You Can Keep You Hat On" >Don, you mentioned Joe Cocker singing "You Can Keep You Hat On". > >Is that the Randy Newman number with lines like: > >"Honey, take off your dress. >Yes... >but you can leave your hat on" ? > >Love that song. Sexy and funny. (Didn't see the movie - can't stand Mickey >Rourke!) I can't stand Mickey Rourke either. Now Kim Bassinger! She's a beauty! She's our age, Roberto! Can you believe it!? Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:03:04 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: A Visit to the Dentist - Long Oh Leslie! LOL!!!! This was a hoot! Thanks for sharing this. Heather >Why I chose to go to the dentist on my first day among the ranks of the >unemployed I don't know - I probably should have had my head examined >rather than my teeth and gums. > >The appointment was for a cleaning and then an exam. As the dental >hygienist from Texas led me to the chair, she noticed the inscription >above the pocket of my shirt, "the Joni Mitchell internet community." >"Oh, I love Joni Mitchell," she exclaimed. In goes the saliva suction >device and then she starts poking around. "Are you flossing daily?" >"Um hum" I try to answer. "Well, after I had my baby I suffered from >post-partum depression and I would play the 'Blue' album over and over. >Now I'm going to start with the ultrasonic cleaner and water will spray >everywhere so don't be alarmed." "Um hum" I try to answer. "Did you >notice that a piece of your left rear molar is missing? Have you been >experiencing any pain?" "Um hum" I try to answer. "Well, I want the >doctor to see this, I'll be right back." "Here we go, I think - I've >had too many good check-ups. Now that I'm unemployed in my early >forties - it's going to start...." > >My jazz loving dentist, Dr. Bock comes into the room, expresses >pleasantries and the metal instrument in gloved hand dives into my >mouth. "Well Leslie, I see another problem besides the chipped tooth. >Blah blah blah SURGERY blah blah blah MICRO-ORGANISMS GET INTO THE >TISSUE Blah blah blah MAJOR CAUSE OF ADULT TOOTH LOSS blah blah blah >we'll just numb you up and you'll feel pain for the rest of the day blah >blah blah. > >"Well, Dr. Bock, I'm really not in the mood today for a procedure like >that, besides I'm going to see Emmylou and Linda tonight." My face >turns several sheets of white and I curse myself for keeping this >appointment. He asks the hygienist to take some x.-rays. She replies >that she's not quite through as she hasn't polished my teeth yet. > >She puts on the acrylic face shield and begins to brighten up my pearly >whites. "You know, while I was suffering from post-partum depression, >my father was diagnosed with cancer. One day I was driving and 'River' >came on the radio, I had to pull off the road and just ball my eyes >out," she said with that Dallas drawl. "I can relate," I tried to reply >with the saliva suction device still firmly in place. All of a sudden, >as the spray was soaking my face she breaks into song from behind that >acrylic face shied, "I could drink a case of you oo oo oo oo oo oo >oo..." > >Well, you can imagine that I just about slithered out of that chair. > >Leslie (with the shining teeth) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:59:30 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Child abuse/precocious kids - NJC Jason, picking up on your remark that... >I am sure most of the younger girls dressed up like TLC, Spice >Girls, or >whoever do not fully understand or realise much of what >they are >imitating, and that's how it's always been. Yesterday, in my office, where we apparently do very little work, but a great deal of philosophizing (or perhaps talking/chicken squawking would be more like it!) we had a similar conversation. A co-worker of mine attended a rather posh private school, where they were very strict about uniforms (whereas, in my case, having gone to a Catholic school which was at the time private, but not posh, we did everything in our power to make the uniform not look like a uniform - such things as rolling over the skirt band to make them really short, wearing funky shirts and socks and so on, a trend which has lasted to this very day, as I notice when I spot the St. Joe's girls on the street, all looking like little harlots from hell). My co-worker also lamented the fact that many of her classmates were so rich that they had no sense of the value of things (either fiscally or morally) and she wondered whether there couldn't be some kind of middle ground between that attitude and style of dress, and that of the little tartlets arriving at the public schools in tank tops, short-short skirts and a whole buncha makeup. There is, apparently, no no middle ground that we're aware of. <> >I have cited this particular case as in the UK it was front-page >headlines. Similar cases have come up in Canada and the US that I'm aware of. If it's salacious, it sells papers. Thereby, everyone gets to tut-tut in secret titillation. <> >in the great scheme of things - isn't there enough bad stuff going >on in >the world to just let these two continue their (potentially >unwise) >relationship? Why should it be of importance to the nation? Why indeed? I guess because it provides a diversion from bombings, earthquakes and the starving millions. (I do not want to get started on the Bill and Monika thing - how long can you drag this one out?) >The guy is not a serial seducer of his pupils, and she has not had >crushes >on every teacher going. Possibly not, but I've known teachers who WERE like that, and it's not a pretty thing! <> >Once upon a time, this [lawsuits] would only have applied to >somewhere >like the US, but the whole world is now moving more in the >direction of >court cases arising from these kind of situations >and so forth. Definitely. There's gold in them thar hills! > > So stay away from kids, Jason, or there'll be one angry mama out to get >you! > > ;) > >LOL...is that a threat? ;-D > >Jason. You're darn tootin' honey! You want to get to the kids, you got to get by mama lion first! ;-> cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:32:25 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Lolita (NJC) Jason Maloney wrote: > catman wrote: > > > > In this case, Jason, I don't think watching the film is necessary if one > > already knows the story, as you do.If the this film is not true to the book > > then it isn't the same story. > > Colin, you're getting confused! The whole point is that this latest > version IS true to the book and NOT - as was the case with Kubrick's - > interpreted to suit a particular social/intellectual viewpoint, or serve > as the base material for a satirical/blackly humourous film. > > > if it had been about a boy/man realtionship it > > would never have been made and probably the book either not written or > > banned. > > Perhaps, but then we could talk forever about what "might" have been, > and what "might" have happened had the situation been different. > Certainly, in the 90s such a book could easily be written and published > with the minmum of fuss. Anything goes these days, but granted a book > like that would never have found an outlet in the 1940s. > > > My whole point has been not whether the film is has any artistic merit but > > that the subject matter, or rather the the way it is portrayed(as being the > > childs fault) is wrong. If the book and both films made it very clear that > > the adult was at fault, that this was a case of abuse, I would not have a > > problem with it. As it is, it blames the child. > > Colin, I do so wish you would at least SEE this newer version before you > make all these statements. In Lynne's version, NOBODY is blameless, and > Lolita herself is not shown to be any more to blame than anyone else. It > is filmed as a modern-day (well, 1940s) tragedy, with the sexual aspect > a catalyst for events, rather than a reason for some voyeuristic > peek-a-boo. > > > And it has succeeded in > > making otherwise sane people think that the child was precocious and > > responsible and that in such circumstances an adult man connot be held > > accountable for having a sexual rleationship with a child. > > She was precocious, but to think that does not automatically mean she is > without blame. Humbert, and all the other protagonists, are all > ultimately "held accountable", as I have said before (without wishing to > give the plot away). I rank Lolita along with a film like Meet Joe > Black.....Lolita is a film about sexual dysfunction which actually > serves as a moralistic tale in some ways. You are probably LESS likely > to think about getting invloved with a teenage girl after seeing it. > Meet Joe Black, meanwhile, is also a film whose overall effect is quite > opposite to its subject matter (in this case, death), being the most > life-affirming experience I've had for some time. > > > It would seem this film, the Kubrick film and the book have caused damage > > rather than enlightenment. Damage in the sense that adults have come away > > believing this child (and by extension the possibilty of other children) was > > culpable in the situation. > > This argument is like the "violence-breeds-violence" debate. that was NOT my point at all. My point was this:either you do think it is okay in some circumstances for adults to have sex with children and therfore you hold this opinion before you saw the film OR you come away from the film thinking this because the child is held culpable. The discussion is not about violence, resevoir Dogs or anything else. IT is about the the fact that this film, as you sated, holds a CHILD culpable. That is it. nothing esle. that is what i find objectionable. Obviously you do not. I think this is the end of the discussion or else we could just keep going around and around with all sorts of other things brought in which are not necessary at all.I fail to understand your position on this. It does however help me to understand why child abuse is common and often ignored. I will not convince you that this girl was a victim. I accept that. bw colin > What you > are saying is the same as the people who claim watching extremely > violent programmes/films make you similarily violent. Nonsense. If > you're going to be affected negatively by something like Lolita or > Reservoir Dogs, then there's something wrong in that person's > psychological make-up in the first place. I have Reservoir Dogs, Taxi > Driver, The Exorcist, Lolita and Se7en in my movie collection, to name > just a few, and I am no worse for seeing them in any way. If people are > sick, they are sick. Things might "stimulate" their dysfunction, but > believe me they would still be that way without some film or other. > Still, now we are heading into the whole censorship issue. > > > From the comment about the child having sex with > > another adult in the film, it would appear she was being abused by more than > > man. > > This is a very valid point. This aspect of the story, which is hinted at > in Lynne's version via various cinematic devices and surreal > "flashback/dream sequences", is the only part of the film I would admit > has even the slightest dubious quality to it. However, this character > who is frankly perverted is not portayed as anything other than what he > is, and his fate is accordingly sordid. Also, it is almost a peripheral > part of the movie, with very few minutes of screen time allocated to it, > and absolutely NOTHING shown, and only referred to in the closing stages > of the plot. > > Jason. - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:50:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Lolita (NJC) if it had been about a > boy/man realtionship it > would never have been made and probably the book > either not written or > banned. Oh don't worry ... "Lolita" has long been at the top of the banned books lists of school districts throughout the US -- along with other such obviously 'dangerous' books like: "Catcher In The Rye", "Farenheit 451", "The Great Gatsby", "A Portrait of the Artist As A Young Man", "The Origin Of The Species", and even "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn." Yep, that reading habit truly can mess a young mind up ... time that could be much better spent on first-person shooter video games and perfecting the assembly of their father's assault rifles blindfolded. Don Rowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:02:45 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joe Cocker "You Can Keep You Hat On" In a message dated 9/10/99 11:56:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Gallih@ccsu.edu writes: << I can't stand Mickey Rourke either. Now Kim Basinger! She's a beauty! She's our age, Roberto! Can you believe it!? Heather >> Wow, you are both 57 now, too? Isn't it great getting the seniors discounts at the movies? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:08:04 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Joe Cocker "You Can Keep You Hat On" - NJC Ha! We'd all look that good if we had the time and money for the personal trainers, image consultants, special foods and plastic surgery those movie stars have. Now, in Kim's case, I dunno - she doesn't have that pulled-back-face look of the facelift... >From: IVPAUL42@aol.com >To: Gallih@ccsu.edu, cateri@hotmail.com >CC: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Joe Cocker "You Can Keep You Hat On" >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:02:45 EDT > >In a message dated 9/10/99 11:56:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >Gallih@ccsu.edu >writes: > ><< > I can't stand Mickey Rourke either. Now Kim Basinger! She's a beauty! > She's our age, Roberto! Can you believe it!? > > Heather > >> >Wow, you are both 57 now, too? Isn't it great getting the seniors discounts >at the movies? > cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:22:14 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Lolita (NJC) catman wrote : > > > It would seem this film, the Kubrick film and the book have caused damage > > > rather than enlightenment. Damage in the sense that adults have come away > > > believing this child (and by extension the possibilty of other children) was > > > culpable in the situation. > > > > This argument is like the "violence-breeds-violence" debate. > > that was NOT my point at all. My point was this:either you do think it is okay in > some circumstances for adults to have sex with children and therfore you hold this > opinion before you saw the film OR you come away from the film thinking this > because the child is held culpable. The discussion is not about violence, resevoir > Dogs or anything else. IT is about the the fact that this film, as you sated, > holds a CHILD culpable. That is it. nothing esle. that is what i find > objectionable. Obviously you do not. I think this is the end of the discussion or > else we could just keep going around and around with all sorts of other things > brought in which are not necessary at all.I fail to understand your position on > this. It does however help me to understand why child abuse is common and often > ignored. I will not convince you that this girl was a victim. I accept that. > > bw > colin Fair enough. I can see you feel very strongly over this one particular aspect of the Lolita story, and nothing I or anyone else says in the film's/story's defence will change that. I could quote at least a dozen remarks I have made in my various posts on this subject that have clearly stated I do not think the things you say I do. I am big enough to accept that, though I would take exception to being labelled as someone who helps to perpetuate ignorance and/or the acceptance of child abuse. I really don't know what it would take to make you actually listen to the various perceptions I have brought to light, so you are right in suggesting that any further discussion is futile. Other folks here have weighed in with their own contributions to this thread, which I really appreciate. As I said right at the beginning, this is an extremely thorny topic and I did not wish to stir up any bad memories or lingering anger/pain for you, Colin. I would be the same if someone inadvertently triggered off a discussion about the medical profession. Best wishes, Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:27:45 -0700 From: Jenaya Dawe Subject: Blue LP Reissue?/Background music Hi guys- I'm sitting here going through a new release catalog from Valley Media, and they have a vinyl release of "Blue" listed. It's expensive, $31.98 wholesale. Does anyone know the scoop on this? Also, I wanted to let everyone know how much I *LOVE* hearing stories about your reactions to background music, in stores, etc. As many of you know, I work for a background music provider in Seattle (NOT Muzak, and NOT AEI) and I take my job pretty seriously. Everyone's always giving "canned" music such a bad rap, it's nce to hear positive comments! My question is, what stores do you particularly enjoy frequenting? What retailers/restaurants do you think are doing a good job with their music? What do you like about it? What kinds of things turn you off? If anyone has any input for me, I could use the inspiration. :-) Jenaya... who's still mourning missing JoniFest NP: Adam Cohen "Cry Ophelia" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:44:21 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Soundtracks (njc) For anybody who likes jazz and/or sophisticated pop, 'The Bridges of Madison County' is a great soundtrack to have. This is where I first heard Johnny Hartmann, Irene Kral & Dinah Washington. I have a couple of Johnny Hartmann cds and I'm thinking of looking for some Irene Kral. She has a wonderfully smooth, jazzy voice and sings with almost no vibrato. Very soothing and very sensual. Most of the singers I like are female but I think Johnny Hartmann has one of the most beautiful voices I've ever heard - deep & velvety smooth and so expressive. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:51:22 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: [none] Richard?! John?! I loved your a post(s)! Ashara - next year, invite the neighbours. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:06:04 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Blue LP Reissue?/Background music NJC In a message dated 9/10/99 12:33:36 PM US Central Standard Time, Jenaya@playnetwork.com writes: << My question is, what stores do you particularly enjoy frequenting? What retailers/restaurants do you think are doing a good job with their music? What do you like about it? What kinds of things turn you off? >> Jenaya, I don't shop much, except for music and groceries. The record stores play music, obviously, but it's not piped in...Actually, the Winn-Dixie (with their cold cuts) and the Publix both play pretty good music; typically I hear Seal, Bonnie, Sting, Joni on more than one occasion. I like to hear something I'm not expecting, not some tired oldie that's been played to death. Jazz is always nice. I guess I'm grateful I don't have a steady diet of country here in SC... Bob NP: Sunny Sunday from "Unplugged & Jamming", Volume 1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:18:02 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: "neighbors trying to sleep and yelling not so loud" is there a cure for JoniFest withdrawal??? - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay [mailto:cateri@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 2:51 PM To: f40rmr1@corn.cso.niu.edu; Ashara@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Richard?! John?! I loved your a post(s)! Ashara - next year, invite the neighbours. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:12:34 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - kids and sexuality In a message dated 9/10/99 11:34:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rkb200@is5.nyu.edu writes: << I think there are probably some people who *are* mature enough to handle a sexual relationship with someone at age 12 or 13 but not the majority,.... ....I think it's a hard call to say that the older person should always turn away the curious/eager young person. >> i find myself hoping you are very young and have no children because i would shudder to think that a genuine parent would be capable of saying such things. i hope in time, you see things differently. ss ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:29:00 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Child abuse/precocious kids - NJC Catherine McKay wrote: > > > So stay away from kids, Jason, or there'll be one angry mama out to get > >you! > > > ;) > > > >LOL...is that a threat? ;-D > > > >Jason. > > You're darn tootin' honey! You want to get to the kids, you got to get by > mama lion first! ;-> ROTFL!!!! :-) Jason, running for "them thar hills" like the wind.... ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:58:00 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Soundtracks (njc) Janene wrote: > I love that main theme from Last of the Mohicans!!! Wow, every theme that > music swelled during the film, so did the tears in my eyes. Beautiful > compliment to the cinematography as well. > Blade Runner was great also. Just got director's cut on DVD. If you have a > DVD player, definitely pick up Blade Runner first. Are we still talking about "great soundtracks to duff movies" or simply "great soundtracks"???? I'd weigh in with the soundtrack to last year's remake of The Avengers in the former category, although I do actually really enjoy watching that movie on DVD, for some reason (and no, NOT because of Uma!). The opening credits scene just blows (oops, pun) me away every time. Some of my fave good soundtracks and good movie choices would include Blade Runner, City Of Angels, Sliding Doors, Jerry Maguire, Practical Magic, The English Patient and The Saint (yes, I thought it was a good movie). ...lots of others, but that's a start :-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:31:21 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: NJC - kids and sexuality rachel kramer bussel wrote: > I'm a bit behind on reading this thread, but I wanted to say that it's > really tough to generalize about all kids or even all people of a certain > age, because the maturity levels are so different. I think there are > probably some people who *are* mature enough to handle a sexual > relationship with someone at age 12 or 13 but not the majority, and then > some aren't going to be mature enough at 18, but nobody can stop them, and > truthfully, even with statutory rape laws, if kids want to be exploring > sex, they will. > > I think it's a hard call to say that the older person should always turn > away the curious/eager young person. Even if that younger person later > concedes that they made a mistake with the older person, it's their right > to live their life and make mistakes and learn along the way. I don't > think that's it's always 100% the older person taking advantage of the > younger, because the younger can still make decisions and choices for > themselves. Thanks for some very sensible thinking, Rachel! You expressed prefectly what I was partly trying to say ... :-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:30:31 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Joe Cocker "You Can Keep You Hat On" >In a message dated 9/10/99 11:56:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Gallih@ccsu.edu >writes: > ><< > I can't stand Mickey Rourke either. Now Kim Basinger! She's a beauty! > She's our age, Roberto! Can you believe it!? > > Heather > >> Paul I incorrectly states: >Wow, you are both 57 now, too? Isn't it great getting the seniors discounts >at the movies? Sorry, she is 45. She'll be 46 on 12/8. I was off a a bit. I'm very close to 44 ..... at any rate, Kim still looks good. Paul, I guess you just can't remember what it's like to be this young! Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:38:28 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: NJC - kids and sexuality Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > >> ....I think it's a hard call to say that the older person should always turn >> away the curious/eager young person. > > i find myself hoping you are very young and have no children because i would > shudder to think that a genuine parent would be capable of saying such > things. i hope in time, you see things differently. ss I think we ought to give Rachel the benefit of the doubt, as I for one seem to have interpreted the above comment somewhat differently to you. That is the eternal problem with e-mail and written debates....my take on it was that she was questioning whether the older party has to necessarily *always* be the one to nip things in the bud, as it were. There are doubtless a small %age of young people who are mature enough to make that choice for themselves, and while I share people's concern over whether it is socially ethical, if it is a mistake then those PARTICULAR teenagers can handle it...and who are we to make that choice for them? Unless, obviously, it is our own child involved, which is a whole other situation and not one we are specifically talking about in this instance, though it is an important point, and one worth raising :-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:28:01 -0400 (EDT) From: rachel kramer bussel Subject: Re: NJC - kids and sexuality On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/10/99 11:34:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > rkb200@is5.nyu.edu writes: > > << I think there are > probably some people who *are* mature enough to handle a sexual > relationship with someone at age 12 or 13 but not the majority,.... > ....I think it's a hard call to say that the older person should always turn > away the curious/eager young person. >> > > i find myself hoping you are very young and have no children because i would > shudder to think that a genuine parent would be capable of saying such > things. i hope in time, you see things differently. ss I don't see what the problem is. I didn't say that those 12 or 13-year-olds *should* necessarily be having sex, but that some might be ready to, or perhaps I should have said, might think they are ready to, and I don't really see how parents or anyone else is going to stop them, nor do I think they necessarily should stop them. And I think that the differing maturity levels, or at least the uncertainty over the proper maturity level, is reflected in the fact that the age of consent laws are different in different states. I don't know the details of which ages it is in which states, but since some states it's 17, for instance, I think that that discredits a lot of 16-year-olds who are mature enough to be having sex, *but*, the state has to make the laws to cover an entire group of people, not just the exceptions. I highly recommend Susie Bright's new book, Full Exposure. She writes a lot in it about being a mother and how parents need to talk openly and honestly with their kids about sex, rather than pretending sex doesn't exist and that they know nothing about it. It's IMO her best and most accessible book. She's also doing a book tour if anyone's interested - the tour dates are at http://www.susiebright.com or I can email them to you. Rachel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:34:13 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Hejira on Dave Gregory's Top 10 I was just surfing around in space and visited the new Dave Gregory Website http://www.guitargonauts.com/index-frames.html And he lists Hejira as one of his Top Ten albums of all time...(Dave was the guitarist/keyboardist with XTC before he split last year.) He also has a nice photo of the album cover - cool, Dave! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:51:30 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Soundtracks (NJC) One soundtrack that I found in a used CD store was "Hiding Out". I never heard of the movie, but I had to buy the CD for one song : a duet with Roy Orbison and k.d. lang singing "Crying" FANTASTIC!!!!!! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:01:42 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: skating / Hejira Just reminiscing a bit... (and practicing work avoidance) The day before Hejira was released, I was listening to the radio - the DJ played something from the album, then went on to describe the cover. He said there was 'a skater' on the cover. Now, at the time I skated some, and followed it rather avidly. I KNEW the skater was Toller Cranston, whom I really admired at the time. (Since then, I'm not as fond of skating in general and Toller in particular.) Imagine my satisfaction the next day when I rushed out to get the album only to find that it was indeed TC on the cover! Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:00:17 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Soundtracks (NJC) FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > One soundtrack that I found in a used CD store was "Hiding Out". I never > heard of the movie, but I had to buy the CD for one song : > > a duet with Roy Orbison and k.d. lang singing "Crying" > FANTASTIC!!!!!! I hope you get a chance to see the video of the song they did just before he died. It too is fantastic. The song has become a staple of her concerts. Jerry, a big k.d. fan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:10:57 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Lolita (NJC) > As I said right at the beginning, this is an > extremely thorny topic and I did not wish to stir up any bad memories or > lingering anger/pain for you, Colin. Whilst I hope you do not intend this, I find this to be extremely offensive and patronizing. You don't know what you are talking about. Are you saying that if I had dealt with my own shit, I would keep my mouth shut?Why is it that when someone is honest about their experience, they are then defined as being unable to have anything but a suspect opinion? Does the fact I was abused mean my views on this subject are of less value than someone who wasn't? It's like being told 'you're are too sensitive' which is load of crap and said by those who have nothing left to argue their corner with. As for your situation, I would not dismiss your views on medicine because you are ill! > I would be the same if someone > inadvertently triggered off a discussion about the medical profession. > > Best wishes, > > Jason. - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:45:53 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Flours of Deep Feeling (NJC) Veteran Pillsbury spokesman Pop N. Fresh, died yesterday of a severe yeast infection. He was 71. Fresh was buried in one of the largest funeral ceremonies in recent years. Dozens of celebrities turned out including: Mrs.Butterworth, the California Raisins, Hungry Jack, Betty Crocker and the Hostess Twinkies. The gravesite was piled high with flours and longtime friend, Aunt Jemima, delivered the eulogy, describing Fresh as a man who "never knew how much he was kneaded." > > Fresh rose quickly in show business, but his later life was filled with many turnovers. He was not considered a very smart cookie, squandering much of his dough on half-baked schemes. Still, even as a crusty old man, he was a roll model for millions. Fresh is survived by his second wife. They have two children and one in the oven. The funeral was held at 3:50 for about 20 minutes. Sheepishly, Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:21:32 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Joni LP News- 2 Super Frank reports from his fortress of solitude: <> I'm sure "Comes Love" will be there, since she's not committed that to disc yet, but "Trouble Man" was on Kyle Eastwood's (excellent) record of last year so we already have that one - I hope she DOESN'T include it (Same with Summertime from Herbie's disc). I'm guessing we'll get "Stormy Weather", and we also know BSN & A Case of You will be there. I just want to maximize the amount of NEW Joni!! btw, thanks for your reports, continue digging up the dirt! Bob NP: Fetchin' Bones, "So Brilliant" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:26:08 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC - kids and sexuality > > > i find myself hoping you are very young and have no children because i would > shudder to think that a genuine parent would be capable of saying such > things. i hope in time, you see things differently. ss I was a bit taken aback too. But I do think different things are being pervceived in this discussion. My point was that no matter how 'mature' a 12, 13, 14, 15, year old is or 16 yr old for that matter, an adult should NOT be having sex with them! i am NOT saying 12 yr olds shouldn't with 12 years olds etc. At least if they were I wouldn't consider it abusive(tho there are always excepotions-like a gang of 12 yr ol;ds forcing another).Nor was I suggesting children should not have proper and adequate sex education. No the p;oint I was making and will again, is that it is ALWAYS the adult who in this situation, has the responsiblity to say NO to the child. That is it. It is simple. No amount of arguing abiut it will convince me that it is ever all right for an adult to have sexual relations with a child. I have seen many things on this list that have surprised me but this one really takes the cake. I am stunned that there are people who will defend the right of adults to have sexual relations with children. Although of course I should not be as our own courts here condoned Bill Wymans sexual relationship with a 13 year old girl. - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:28:28 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Flours of Deep Feeling (NJC) Thank you for that bit of cleverness Leslie. you must go to the dentist more often!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:29:46 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni LP News- 2 I am looking foward to Joni's new album of standards. Just goes to show that where Carly goes, Joni will follow!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:33:19 +0100 From: catman Subject: LauraNJC I got a lovely surprise in the mail today-snail that is. Three magazines with Carly on the covers. Trouble is, this is awful, I have no idea who Laura is. iI must know her under an email name. I do recall someone from this list saying they would send me a magazine. so Laura, thank you so much for the gift. Please write to me and let me know which email addy I know you by! Once again, the jmdl has brought kindness and joy my way. Thank you. - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:38:00 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: Happy to share in your delights. (NJC) John, finally showing his "face" asks: << O one last thread, I swear, this one is it! Ashara, do you think you can get a post from your neighbors who called the cops, telling their take on the JoniFest. I think that would be such a hoot! Imagine. What idiots. >> Hi John! So glad to see you! I can tell you "exactly" what the neighbors thought of Jonifest, as told to Rick LeBel, (otherwise known as "Jerry") one of Topsfield's finest. "The music is terrible. It is too loud. We can't stand that music. We can't even have a conversation on our own deck. We put up with it last year, and have no intention of putting up with it this year. Our grandchildren can't get too sleep. This has gone on for waaaay too long!" I ran into another neighbor today, who lives closer to them, (the neighbors that complained actually are several streets away from me!) and asked her if she knew them. She said that is always the way they are. They are just miserable people. She enjoyed the music from her backyard, and said it was great! So......tough tubas on the grumpy neighbors...and I say...... SEPTEMBER 2, 2000!!!!!!!!!!!! PLAY ON!!!!!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:40:37 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: set lists, pictures, recording njc Wally asks: << will there be any tapes and videos too? i'm willing to buy the whole box set! >> Catgirl and I are working on editing our combined 6 hours of video tape, so please be patient. It will be available to all that want it! And.....there are several people working on editing the DAT tapes as well. So, hang tight, and we will let you know as soon as they become available! :-D Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:49:46 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Bob, show thyself (NJC) Catherine wrote: Oh yeah?? That looks like me on a GOOD day! >> /////// \\\\\\\ >> / - - \ >> < @ @ > >> ( () ) >> (----) >> ``` >> PaulC This is what I look like on a good day - like my cool bobble-hat? O ### ##### ######## *****_***_***** < (.) (.) > () ( ---- ) ... I bet Bob Muller doesn't have a cool bobble-hat like this!! PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:53:03 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - kids and sexuality i don't think different things are being discussed at all. i think jason is wacked in the head. i think rachael is young and naieve. and i think adults and kids and sex have no mutuality in act at all ever in this world under any circumstances. for anyone to suggest that a 12 or 13 year old might be mature enough for a sex relationship is stupid. period. and the adult is always always always the responsible one. that is why there are laws. kids don't know what is right. when a kid and an adult have sex, the adult goes to jail. that is proper. and i think jason would have been a bigger man to end this thing about ten messages ago. ss. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:39:07 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: NJC Bob's lying! Catman offers <> No, but thanks so much for the invitation... It would certainly put a new spin on the phrase "I've been to London to visit the Queen"...:~D Bob NP: Bonnie Raitt, "Tangled & Dark" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:18:34 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni thought In a message dated 9/10/1999 8:37:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MGVal@aol.com writes: << Late last night, (oh, say, 8:38PM or so...), I was going through my Joni CDs in search of a comfort blanket. While listening to "Willie" on LOTC, I was reading the lyrics and thinking about the Harry Ditz photo of Graham and Joni in the backseat of car. Harry said that when he magnified the photo, he could see that she was sitting there writing the lyrics to that song. >> OK GIRL!!! Where is this said photo and why haven't I seen it??? It could be a great pic for a Joni CD of that era. Talk to me baby!! Cat..... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:32:13 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joe Cocker "You Can Keep You Hat On" In a message dated 9/10/99 3:27:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gallih@ccsu.edu writes: << Sorry, she is 45. She'll be 46 on 12/8. I was off a a bit. I'm very close to 44 ..... at any rate, Kim still looks good. Paul, I guess you just can't remember what it's like to be this young! Heather >> Kim is the same age as I. She just feels older. LOL! Actually, she is older... by 6 months. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:44:00 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: NJC - kids and sexuality Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > > i don't think different things are being discussed at all. i think jason is > wacked in the head. i think rachael is young and naieve. > > and i think adults and kids and sex have no mutuality in act at all ever in > this world under any circumstances. for anyone to suggest that a 12 or 13 > year old might be mature enough for a sex relationship is stupid. period. > and the adult is always always always the responsible one. that is why there > are laws. kids don't know what is right. when a kid and an adult have sex, > the adult goes to jail. that is proper. > > and i think jason would have been a bigger man to end this thing about ten > messages ago. > ss. Woah! I am seriously disturbed by this one....was not expecting this left-hook out of the blue. Anyone know how I should reply to this? Privately, of course. Thanks. And to think I'd always been civil and respective of people's own beliefs throughout this discussion. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:36:40 -0700 From: Jenaya Dawe Subject: RE: NJC - kids and sexuality I've been watching this thread with much interest, bit I was trying to keep my mouth shut.... Siresorrow said: >i don't think different things are being discussed at all. i think jason is >wacked in the head. i think rachael is young and naieve [SIC]. I think you're being rude. Intelligent exchange of ideas and opinions has nothing to do with name-calling. >and the adult is always always always the responsible one. that is why there >are laws. kids don't know what is right. when a kid and an adult have sex, >the adult goes to jail. that is proper. I think in order to have this conversation, you have to be more specific. At what age does a child become an adult? For instance, I'm twenty years old, am I an adult or a child? I started having sex at 16 (which I think is about average, maybe slightly early among my peers, but I lived in a small conservative town), my boyfriend was 21. I can honestly say that it did me no harm. Technically, it was illegal in Washington state, though. The question is, is it wrong? I was already living as an adult, going to school, working full-time and living on my own. I think that sexual maturity varies GREATLY among children/teens/young adults. Both environment and nature play huge parts, and wide generalizations just won't work. Some people mature early, experiencing puberty earlier in their peers, making them physically (and HORMONALLY!) ready for sex before others. On the other hand, there are plenty of people in their 20's and 30's that have the sexual maturity of a 15 year old! (And I've dated plenty of 'em!) But I could just be young and naive.... >and i think jason would have been a bigger man to end this thing about ten >messages ago. OOOoooohhh, that sounds like kindling to me... Jenaya, waiting for it to be 5... NP: "The River" Polly Jean ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #398 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?