From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #395 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, September 10 1999 Volume 04 : Number 395 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: What A Country! (NJC) [Jason Maloney ] RE: Smoe downtime ahead ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Yay! ROTR bass tab (NJC) [ram5@po.cwru.edu (Richard)] Re: Talented JMDLers at Asharas [Ashara@aol.com] Re: Lolita (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Withdrawal symptoms [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Klaus who??? [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Joni's music in movies [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Joni's music in movies [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: NJC Bob's lying! [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Jonifest Part 5- The End [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Lolita (NJC) [RMuRocks@aol.com] Anyone in the Virgin Islands?? (NJC) [Brian Gross ] Re: Joni in Movies/TV ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Happy to share in your delights. [Richard Rice ] Former Lurker begging... [Richard Rice ] Re: More love letters (very long) ["Kakki" ] Re: Lolita (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Happy to share in your delights. ["Mark or Travis" ] More love letters (very long) [Bounced Message ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:01:04 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: What A Country! (NJC) catman wrote: > > I am staggered by this. This is exactly what peodophiles argue!!!!!!!(do not misunderstand me I am not > accusing you.) > I do find this line of thinking very offensive, the level of ignorance is frightening. It is this kind of > thinking that allows so much abuse to go on and why many who have been abused do not come forward and do not > seek the help they need. It seems that too many people feel that only the very small who are raped are real > victims and the others asked for it. Well, the discussion here has (inevitably) developed from the Lolita film, and on to what I earlier described as "murky moral areas". Colin, I am not all offended by your disagreements....I do not take offence simply because another person does not share my own perceptions and views. Your tone is pretty strong, but not antagonistic or malicious. I've been corresponding with you on here for the best part of a year, and I am familiar with your "forthright" manner....some of the US and Canadian folks among us have the cultural divide to often confuse things. I acknowledged in my last post how your own experiences (which you have further explained) give you a certain insight and opinion on the whole child abuse thing. Before I reply to what you've written, I'd like to say that - I don't believe most children who are sexually assualted "ask for it". I know what you mean, but that is not what I said. I was talking in the context of Lolita, and as yet you have not seen the version I am talking about. You're speaking of much much younger children, and completely different circumstances....which are every bit as horrific and unjustifiable as you say. What goes through those people's minds I cannnot begin to comprehend. I can understand (or at least try to) the anger and devastating problems it causes, and what it put you through. This is probably coming across as terribly crass/patronising....but I assure you I am not closing my ears to what you have to say. I feel that I am perhaps being drawn into a discussion of a wider and thornier significance than simply a "controversial" movie....but I don't have a problem with that. You feel that I am perhaps unintentionally ignorant and a little bit naiive, and I appreciate your willingness to enlighten me. We come from quite different angles in our views and experiences of life, and that's bound to spill over and influence our line of thinking and attitudes. > This is exactly how I felt for many years which left me unable to function because of the effects but too > ashamed to tell because 'i asked for it'. > let me explain: > I discovered that it is not 'normal' for very young kids to be sexually aware. yes it is normal to play drs > and nurses but many young kids go way beyond that and want to penetrate etc. This, in the very young, does not > come naturally-it is taught to them by experience. I agree. Unless things have drastically changed in the last 20 years, young children are certainly NOT significantly sexually aware. There is obviously a certain "chemistry" there at a young age, in terms of "liking" someone in "that" way, but it isn't normally explictly understood nor acted upon at that age. I always adored girls, and was curious about them, but from the age of 10 onwards I had very little contact with the opposite sex. I didn't even discover the facts of life til I was 12, and didn't fully comprehend it all at the time anyway....which concurs with - and backs up - your views stated above. Despite how things turned out for me, as regards illness, isolation, disabilty and an almost crippling longing for feamle company/contact, I am still thankful for my "innocent" childhood, free of the harsh realities and crude behaviour that can occur. I feel sorry for these 12 year olds who become pregannt and/or are very sexually knowldegeable/active. It isn't meant to be that way. However, my problem is more with "respectable" society deeming those children (NOT those subjected to incest/rape/abuse) as victims. OK, so some of them are victims of their own recklessness, and their lack of responsibility and self-control, but I don't think that is what they mean. The media, in all its forms, has become so sexually explicit and sex-orientated, that it is hardly surprising that younger and younger children (I'm talking 11 and 12 yr olds upwards) are becoming more active and knowledgeble. > Later as an 11 year olf, 12 yearold or teen, this sexualising of relationships continues. > In my case, once I was first abused, it was very easy for that abuse to continue. You could say I invited it. > I had found a way of being trreated nicely! As long as I did what i was told and I pleased, I would not get > hurt and I would get attention and 'love'. According to your defininition, the child pornographer whom i was > pleasing was not doing anything wrong, I was and he was merely unable to resist my advances!!! > Or what about Mrs Herderson and her advances, her caresses, her nakedness. I didn't run away. I let her do > what she wanted to do, despite my inner feeling. It might even be said I was willing because I didn't resist. > Of course I didn't she was an adult. I obeyed adults. > Due to the abuse, I was left unable to relate to people except sexually. This had a devastating affect on my > life. > What you and many others fail to understand, is that children who become that sexually aware do so as a result > of some form of abuse, neglect, emotional deprivation etc. It does not happen by accident. As for innocence, I > was innocent. i had no idea of what was being done, it's ramifications etc. I was a child and quite unalbe to > have the wherewithal to understand what was going on. I was caught in adult sickness and doing the best i > could to survive. being touched and excited and 'oved' was much better than being beaten. Only the damage was > same. Obviously, here you are talking about quite a different aspect of the subject to the one I was just now. I completely agree once again that what you went through (and what others still go through) is wrong. I didn't have my first encounter until I was 27, and it was very loving, positive and non-threatening. I dearly wish that it could like that for everyone. The child in me wonders why it can't be....."why are people so unkind?" > Fortunately, for me it is over and done with. I have sorted it out and live very well. unfortunately, many > others have not sorted it. They are addicted or dead or miserable or in jail or prostitutes. This sort of > abuse, and attitude to it, still exists, hence I do not flinch from being candid. perhaps what i have to say > will prevent someone having to go thru it or will educate someone into a better understanding. Please, do not let me prevent that. I have lived a very "sheltered" life, sexually speaking, though I have seen and experineced the horror and devastating effects of ill-health both first-hand and in those around me. > You know, if a 13 year old girl, strips herself naked and lap dances for you, YOU are the one who must say NO. > If you do not, then you will have committed child abuse. Point taken, but my attitude was more towards longer-term relations between child/adult and the dynamics and background of it. Obviously, the situation you cite would quite clearly be wrong, and would FEEL wrong to anyone with a conscience (not guaranteed, I admit). > A few years ago I was in a situation where someone waaaay underage made a very obvious and graphic pass at me. > I walked away. I was scared by it and very angry. Angry because I knew that boy would NOT have done what he > had done had some bastard not already taught him.( i d not mean taught him to be gay here, but taught him that > his sexuality was something with which to gain attention) and scared because it made me see just how > vulnerable I had been at his age. Scared too because I bet the next person took him up on it. Again, I agree with your viewpoint. Now we are veering into child prostitution, which is a sordid and extremely disagreeable business. > > Take for instance > > the recent outcry over that 15 yr old schoolgirl moving in with her 32 > > yr-old teacher. > > This case caused so much upraor because most people can SEE that it is an abuse of power. There is no way the > 15 year old has the same knowledge, experience etc of the 32 year old. The teacher peupil relaionship should > not be abused in this way. The teacher broke the trust put in him. Full stop. Maybe, but look beyond that and there might just be a case for claiming that those two are happy and care for each other. This is the point where I perhaps feel that the "discrmination" issue comes into play. He may have abused his position, but sometimes there is no getting away from the fact that two ppl simply "click" and even though society deems it immoral, improper...whatever....that doesn't make the girl a victim. This is just my take on it. I am well aware it won't tow the politically-correct line. To me, a victim is someone harmed, abducted, and made to suffer for no reason. There is plenty of terrible things going on in the world, and to teenagers, to just let people like that BE. Besides, there is also more than enough abuse of postion and power taking place on a daiy basis in other parts of society, yet we continue to focus on anything linked to relationships like this one. I ceratinly don't think it is front-page news, as it has been. > > > Too much is made of the pupil/teacher aspect, and also > > the age gap as well. Colin, I am in a way rather surprised by your > > attitude to adult/teenager relationships, because in my opinion it is > > another form of discrimination. > > Peadophiles argue along the same lines. The point is, age gaps between ADULTS is not a problem. I am almost 12 > years younger than my partner.I was once 25 years younger than my partner, however in that situation he was > abusive and I was naive but old enough to walk away. I honestly don't think that once a person reaches an age where THEY feel mature enough (and not what SOMEONE ELSE deems the right age)...be it 16, 18, 21 or whenever......age comes into play. Problems are problems. Abuse doesn't begin and end with adults and children, as you have just pointed out. > > Jason, I strongly disagree with your stance on this. I think it is because you do not understand. This does > not mean that I now think less of you! I don't take any offence, Colin. I respect your opinions and read your thoughts with interest and a keen eye for knowledge. I am happy to agree to disagree on some points. > > Perhaps you might want to read some books on the subject which will help you see why I disagree so strongly. > Alice Miller is a good start. Be warned tho,she doesn't just cover sexual abuse and it might be a painfull > read. I apprecaite the suggestion, though at this time I won't go hurtling into anything too uncompromising. I am only just emerging from my own painful learning curve and period of discovery/acceptence as to who and what I am. > > bw > colin and the same to you :-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:58:43 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Smoe downtime ahead what? 12 hours [from 6 am to 6 pm edt, jennifer] without reading more praises to my set? fetch me my asp! wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:01:01 -0400 (EDT) From: ram5@po.cwru.edu (Richard) Subject: Re: Yay! ROTR bass tab (NJC) I've been a bassist for a... er... um... a loooong time, mostly electric now, but at one time did the upright and fretless varieties. Of late, been thinking about getting and electric upright :) Sorry I missed the "each and every year" *ahem* JoniFest. Hopefully next year ... sounded like a great great time ... I am envious of all those that were there :) Richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:21:19 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: Talented JMDLers at Asharas Jimmy, I have a very special, very LARGE collection of "vjzings," otherwise known as all kinds of percussion instruments! You certainly can play any number of them very well already, and with about 3 1/2 seconds of practice, you will be able to play all of them! Also, as many people have already mentioned, my philosophy on singing is, "If you can walk, you can dance, if you can talk, you can sing," which is taken from all old Zimbabwe saying. There were lots of sing-a-longs, and just lots and lots of fun making music as a group, so you will fit in just fine! Hugs, Ashara In a message dated 9/9/99 6:56:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: << After reading and thoroughly enjoying all of the reports at Jonifest '99, I'm almost afraid to attend Jonifest 2000. It seems like everyone there played some kind of instrument or sang beautifully!!! I love music (especially Joni's), but I can't play any instruments or sing. Am I the only JMDLer that doesn't have any musical talents? Can I still show up next year? I do know how to applaud!!! >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:30:48 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Lolita (NJC) > > > > Don Rowe wrote: > > > The most recent film version of Nabokov's "Lolita" was > > > deemed "pornographic" and kept from wide commercial > > > release in theatres > > > Anyhow, regarding the latest version of Lolita....Colin, the Jeremy > Irons remake does NOT blame the child. Apparently, Adrian Lynne (the > director) reinstated what must be the crucial aspect of the story - the > tragic events of Humbert's childhood which caused his weakness and why > Lolita ignited the longing for his lost adolescent love. ..... snip ...The film didn't > glorify, condone or celebrate the behaviour of any character, and > consequently was a terribly sad and poignant tale. Leaving aside the discussion of child abuse I find this description of the Lolita remake very interesting. I haven't seen it or read Nabokov's book but I did see the Stanley Kubrick version with James Mason & Sue Lyon. Maybe I missed the point entirely but to me the Kubrick version seemed to be a wicked exercise in black humor. It's been probably close to 20 years since I saw it (it was on a double bill with 'Dr. Strangelove' which may explain why I saw it this way) but I seem to remember Mason's Humbert as being intelligent but leeringly lecherous and Lyon's Lolita as being rather vacuous and teasingly sexual. Humbert seemed to be in agony, yes, and went to great lengths in rationalizing and justifying his lust for the young Lolita. Shelley Winters was shrill and fluttery as Lolita's unsuspecting mother. The whole film seemed to be meant as a satiric view of society and the moral ambiguities of the time (it was made in 1962). I remember laughing a lot when I saw this movie at a repertory movie house in Seattle and getting some strange looks from other people in the theatre. Was I totally off-base in the way I saw this film? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:55:13 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Withdrawal symptoms In a message dated 9/9/99 1:27:19 PM US Central Standard Time, john.van.tiel@wxs.nl writes: << Dutch, MC Bob, NOT German! >> Boy am I in Dutch now!! What do you think I am, a "Dutch Master"? I don't even smoke cigars!! :~) Seriously, John, I was SO afraid you'd go back to lurking and I wouldn't hear this wonderful report from you...Gosh, it was very heartfelt...you have so much to share, please continue to do so. I so enjoyed plopping myself in a lawn chair next to you and getting to know you, I admit to being a global ignoramus but I do know a good buddy when I see one! Bob NP: Suzanne Vega, "Some Journey" (Just got this one again on CD - I had forgotten how good it was!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:03:55 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Klaus who??? In a message dated 9/9/99 2:13:13 PM US Central Standard Time, steve@psitech.com writes: << Klaus von Bulow, maybe? >> That's it! Thanks Steve, you know what they say...It takes a village to correct the village idiot! :~) And I remembered the David Cronenberg film he was twins in: "Dead Ringers" And I saw "Sixth Sense" tonight...boy, that ending really threw me! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:23:43 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's music in movies In a message dated 9/9/1999 5:03:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << I guess you had to be there, but I wasn't sure how to react to that - was Scorsese making fun of Joni lovers or was it some kind of weird tribute? Definitely a weird film. cateri@hotmail.com >> I think it was a compliment!!! all the way!!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:23:04 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's music in movies In a message dated 9/9/1999 5:03:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << Here's one for you with Joni's music in the movies - the very quirky Scorsese film "After Hours" with Griffin Dunne playing an accountant-type guy who has just recently moved to New York City and, being very bored, accepts some kind of blind date and ends up in a hellish nightmare where people may or may not be getting murdered or committing suicide, and the guy just wants to get home. In one scene, he meets a waitress, played by Teri Garr, who seems stuck in some kind of '60's time warp and takes him to her place, where she has the incense going and plays Joni Mitchell's Clouds album for him. I guess you had to be there, but I wasn't sure how to react to that - was Scorsese making fun of Joni lovers or was it some kind of weird tribute? Definitely a weird film. >> THAT was a GREAT movie and YES very bizaar! Thanks for bringing back that memory!! That was one of the best parts of the film when Terry Garr started playing Joni Mitchell. I was freaking out when I saw that part! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:34:17 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Bob's lying! In a message dated 9/9/99 4:26:15 PM US Central Standard Time, revrvl@pathwaynet.com writes: << the Rev) Vince, wondering why Bob threw that particular challenge ("when you become an ordained priest...") out... >> Probably the same reason he called Klaus Von Bulow Klaus Barbi! Damn - no more posting for me until after lunch! :~) Yeah, right... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:38:32 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Jonifest Part 5- The End In a message dated 9/7/1999 7:20:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << I have many regrets about Jonifest '99. I regret that there is never enough time to connect in a deep way with every single lister there. I regret that you are all gone in what seems like a "flash." >> This is my biggest complaint as well. I never really did get to have any real conversations with alot of people. I almost kinda walked around in a daze...which doesn't tkae much for me. Smiles and kind words....my head could barely fit through some of the doorways. You guys actually started me thinking that I should get out there and sing more. My only problem (not that it is a problem mind you..) Is that I only wanna do Joni. I NEVER get tired of her...thank the Gods because I have tons of CD's to burn for tons of people! So with that I need to leave and finalize the one that just got finished. Maurice you are next and then Pat Mead and then Kenny. Promise! Catgirl ps Jean Peirre you are in there too! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:56:55 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Lolita (NJC) In a message dated 9/9/99 7:33:53 PM US Central Standard Time, mark-n-travis@worldnet.att.net writes: << Was I totally off-base in the way I saw this film? >> And I'm just the opposite Mark, I saw the remake and not the first one. And it's interesting in that Lolita is actually carrying on with *another* older guy the whole time Humbert thinks he's got some kind of monopoly on her. Then she ends up shacked up and pregnant with somebody *else* entirely...I have to get that first one, but I don't think the rental places carry it on account of it's so controversial. Of course, I could always read the novel I suppose... In the meantime, I can always play "Don't Stand So Close to Me" by the Police! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:21:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Anyone in the Virgin Islands?? (NJC) Hi gang, I'm gonna be in St Thomas on business for about 6 days (9/11-9/17) and would be happy to have an island-Joni-meet-n-greet. So speak up if you're a "Virgin JoniFan" :-) Thanx, Brian brigross@netscape.net === "I have a thing that's unique and new To prove it, I'll have the last laugh on you Because instead of one head, I've got two And you know two heads are better than one" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 23:45:47 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Movie music (NJC) Some thoughts.... Steve Dulson wrote: > As I wrote recently I LOVED the music in "Rushmore", although I > admit, I'm not sure how it "fit" with the movie. I guess that was my problem. I didn't notice it the first time I saw the movie, but I recently saw it again and really found the songs (how they were used) intrusive -- detracting from the onscreen action even when they were good songs -- and kind of used to score easy emotional points. I think maybe this can easily happen with soundtracks consisting of pop songs designed to stand on their own. Maybe it's a fine line, but I guess I'd distinguish critically (since I'm playing the critic; I mentioned I've been reading Pauline Kael lately) between the songs and the soundtrack -- for instance, I think the songs from Robert Altman's mid-'70s epic "Nashville," one of the greatest films I've ever seen, are not as good as the songs in "Rushmore," but as a *soundtrack* (in context) they're far, far better because of the way they're deeply linked to the film (they not only comment on and reflect the action onscreen, they're part of the film *conceptually* because many of them were written by the actors who sing them). Another set of soundtracks I like is Michael Nyman's scores for Peter Greenaway's films (The Cook, The Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover; Prospero's Books; Drowning by Numbers; etc.). I think Greenaway's movies are conceived so formally, so operatically, that the soundtrack takes on a whole new structural role, and can have a really great effect. And Michael Nyman's music suits this perfectly and can also stand on its own (sometimes barely -- I don't like anything else of his I've heard, *especially* the score for "The Piano"!!). There's a scene in Greenaway's "The Pillow Book," too, with a French pop song (Guesch Patti's "Blonde") on the soundtrack, that was so beautiful it gave me goose bumps the first time I saw it. Actually, to go back to what I said about "Rushmore," I *can* think of a movie with a pretty great set of pop songs that function as a pretty great soundtrack after all -- "Grosse Pointe Blank" (with "Mirror in the Bathroom," which turned me on to the English Beat) -- so I guess it's all in how it's done. Take care, - --David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:54:52 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni in Movies/TV Phyliss wrote: >You've Got Mail - "River" and "Both Sides Now" (at least the lyrics were >spoken by Meg and Tom) Well in that case you have to include the final episode of "Mad About You" where Jamie says "We don't need no City Hall, or a piece of paper"! Seriously, I thought of one other movie - I may be wrong about this because it's quite a while since I've seen it but I'm pretty sure "River" was in the soundtrack to the movie "Live Nude Girls". Helen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:58:10 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: Happy to share in your delights. Thank you all. What more can I say? It has been such a wonderful experience to be a small part of this incredible community of Joni Lovers. I feel like the luckiest guy in the world! I am a great lover of Vermeer and Jan Van Eyck. Often I imagine what it must have been like to live in their time and be blessed by the beauty of their work as it was being created. How spiritual an event it must have been, to be among the first to see the magic of the Aronifini Wedding Portrait first hand, after receiving its final coats of varnish? Or Vermeer's light glistening freshly from the canvas. 'Light is a dancer here, and cannot rest...' No hand or eye has more poetically described the joyous play of light on form as these artist. It is the blessing of every age that there are artist, who by their purity of vision and touch, have created works of so profoundly uplifting, it is as if receiving gifts from heaven. I would certainly add Joni Mitchell to that list. Her music is not only richly and deeply poetic, it is also a beacon to possibilities in popular music waiting to be explored. --Of course, I did not always feel this way. When I first heard her music I hated it! I was in college, around '74, and my roomie Mark Galway pulls out this album and says, "You've just got to hear this!" It was late evening, we sat in a near candle lit room, and I listened to Blue for the first time. --How strange! I grew up on the west side of Chicago, weaned on Motown Sound, The Jackson Five, and The Temptations What was this mess? I remember thinking, 'Is she going to talk, or is she going to sing?' The rhythms, harmonies, concepts, et. al were off the chart from what I was familiar with. I cringed through the first listening. But there was something there... At first I was just taken by the blue cover and all the type. I had longed for songs that were more involved than the simple rhymes of popular music, and here they were. In spades! But it was too foreign for my ears to listen to. It was Bob Moerbeck, by buddy and idol at the time, who cemented the deal. At the slightest peep of Blue he would be in the room inhaling her sounds like a man in a transcended state. To humor him I would put Blue on often as he pleased and talk for hours on end about nothing. That summer back home in the grey decay of Lawndale, and missing college life, I found myself longing to hear Carey, which I had grown fond of for its rich visual imagery and exotic rhythm track. BOOM! I was in love. I bought Blue and Court and Spark. Had a blast with both. The early 'folk' albums quickly came next, confounding me to no end. They were again, different. I was mad that they were different, but quickly grew to love them. FTR came next, by then I knew better than to expect, 'more of the same' from Joni. It was so wonderful to pick up new Joni almost at will. God, I loved that period. I had purchased all there was to purchase and reality set in, those awful three to four year waits for new material began ...ugghh!!! Talk about feeling like being lost and starving in a desert. My first new Joan was HOSL. MAN, I WAS BLOWN AWAY BY THAT ONE!!! I remember the grueling wait finally finally being over and walking into the record store tingling with anticipation. As I entered the door, they were playing the title track over the store speakers and there was a large display with Joni floating in a silvery blue green pool by the register. Her voice had changed! It was in a lower, cooler register, more jazzy. The music was sinuous and fluid. My hairs stood on end. It was such a joyous moment. The only moment that superseded that one was how I felt after listing to Hejira the first time. Hejira was THE most satisfying work ever. Years will go by and the beauty of that recording will be as rich and fresh as the first hearing. I was in love with her and loved the art direction of that album. Even the type choice and the centered text lines made my heart weep with pleasure. My family was not so gracious. I recall, when I bought Blue, being very excited to play it for my sister. My family, I come from a family of eight was all around the table eating dinner and I put the record on. Everyone sat quietly eating, the only sounds being Joni and the clatter of silverware. Finally, my oldest brother and my brother-in law began having a conversation on how 'Black people shouldn't try to be white. And 'Black' people should stick to their own kind, and 'Black' people who couldn't accept themselves were sick.' I ate in silence as they spoke of me in third person, as if I wasn't even there, for the longest of time. I was fuming inside. I finally stormed from the table and took my album up to my bedroom and never played Joni again in my family's company. Now I laugh about it, and long to kid my brothers about how much they love to play golf and chess. Geez, how white can you get? But I am the odd sheep of the family still. Joni has not transcended that border yet. Talk about borderlines. They run everywhere. But enough of that. I just wanted to say hi to all. I'm John Calimee, finally making my presence known on the list. I have spoken to Michael Paz, and received a Vid tree from ...(gasp!) Ashara! Hi Ashara! God, how I wished I had made it to your event. It must have been just wonderful! I hope all who attend enjoyed themselves and I wish you all the very best. God bless you and your families. I tell you, life is great! I want to go on and on but I'll stop now-- with one last thread, I swear! Just one. For those of you with no musical talent what so ever, and I include myself on that list, mostly, I urge you to get a guitar and learn to tune it to Joni's tunings. It is the ultimate rush of experiencing the true depth of her sound. I thought I knew the music until I began playing. There are surprises in the chord changes that will just thrill you with their beauty that listening will never fully present in the same way. The surprises come in odd places where you least expect. For me, the realization of this comes from playing (very badly) Yvette in English. The movement between the eighth and ninth frets has such a wonderfully silvery, plaintive sound. You can only experience by playing it yourself. Get an ax! Thank Howard, and Sue, and Marian, and Mark D. for all their wondrous input and start strumming, I have. O one last thread, I swear, this one is it! Ashara, do you think you can get a post from your neighbors who called the cops, telling their take on the JoniFest. I think that would be such a hoot! Imagine. What idiots. Thanks again to all. Get better Wally. God be with you. John. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 23:07:30 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: Former Lurker begging... Gulp!!! I forgot to ask, pretty please with tons of sugar on top. I am dying to hear the HOSL CD. Joni, scat singing parts as guidance for other musicians. WOW! I have no cd writer so could take part. If anyone would be kind enough to offer making me a disk, I would be so in debt to you. ( As if I am not already in debt to so many for this wonderful forum.) I do hope someone will take pity on me. I will do anything to hear this gem. No more threads tonight. I swear. - --And another thing... John Calimee. CalIrving@Yahoo.com F40rmrl@corn.cso.niu.edu. Any Joni fans in the Chicago area? Would love to chat all things Joni with you. --Hike Mike. Hope you are enjoying Cajun country. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:51:43 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: More love letters (very long) (I sent this earlier tonight but my weird mail config may have sent it to Bounceville - apologies if you all get it twice - at least I got a chance to correct my typos, ahem) I'm still blissing but a little bit of lucidity has returned so that I can further rhapsodize about our wonderful time. Exactly one week ago I had come down with a cold and an allergic reaction to a tetanus shot (nasty stuff!), was working 15 hour days on a court deadline, was definitely "up to my neck in alligators" and had "jaws (i.e., lawyers) knashing at me." Right up until my flight out there was a possibility that I would have to cancel the trip to Boston. A couple of my mean old daddy bosses did all they could to lay the guilt on me for taking a few days off. It all got to be too much and I finally broke down in tears (which I have NEVER done professionally) in front of one of the junior attorneys. Amazingly he proved to be a human being and insisted that I take off on my trip and completely forget about work. He literally scooted me of the door. So armed with seven prescriptions, I fled off into the night. Arrived in Boston on no sleep and drove up to Topsfield to hang out with John, Marian and Ashara before checking into my motel. Magically, I knew the way straight to Ashara's by heart (and those who have attempted the navigation know this is an incredible accomplishment ;-) Although I was overwhelmed by the beauty of her town and home last year, it seemed 100 times more beautiful to me that morning. It really is a storybook setting. Finally got a little rest that day and then joined the Friday night party. It was instant and constant bliss from there on through and, as you can guess, the love and fresh air immediately banished all that ailed me and I never once had to open any of those medicine bottles. Like Marian and John I have had no jet lag, either, (except that my late bedtime has slipped to 3 a.m. and must be reset soon ;-) There are so many memories replaying in my head and heart. John said it's like slides - at this point, it is almost like replaying my favorite movie over and over. "Jonifest - The Miniseries". It's all in a beautiful slow motion but it all goes by so fast, too. Everything just fell into place - even the pizza and Chinese food were the best I've ever tasted! More highlights for me - - - Listening to the tape of Marcel in the rental car on the way back Friday night. I had enough time to listen to it twice through as I discovered there was no way to cross the highway to get to my motel and I had to do a 10 mile long circular route to finally get there! Marcel recorded several of the early Joni songs and he did an amazing and perfect job. His voice is exactly like the young Stephen Stills, which really lent a special feel to Joni's music. It really touched me that he had been so inspired to get himself back into music again through this list and created such lovely renditions. - - Soon after arriving at the party Saturday, brand new jmdler Anne took the stage and sang and played her heart out. I was so impressed at her bravery and guts to get right on up there on the stage before her new friends! - - I was so happy to see Terry, who could not make it last year. It's just not the same for me without her there. Her beautiful musicianship and generosity of musical spirit is a must at our fests! Very late Saturday night she and Marian started up playing and singing out on the back deck and it was just fantastic. Oooh, and they did a bunch of songs from my fave FTR, too ;-) - - Later we carried on the back deck party with Father Patrick (I just love that - it is so perfect) presiding over a musical discussion with Wally K, Bob, Kenny, Paz, Les, Roberto and Laura. It is really true that Patrick knows and can converse about everything under the sun. His endless knowledge sometimes intimidates me, but he is very kind and never makes me feel shut out of the discussion. And he just sparkles and sparkles all the time. - - Still later I found myself sprawled on the floor in the music room with Les, Julie, Michael, ChuckE, Pearl, Steve and Paz. I finally was wasted enough (with bliss not martinis ;-) to actually sing and play a bit. Julie and I finally drug ourselves out the door back to the motel at around 5 a.m. and then as girls always do, sat up for another hour yapping. It was so great to see her again although I'm still going to get her back someday for waking up less than two hours later. But who can blame her - she couldn't wait to get back to Ashara's garden. - - We managed to stuff too many people into too few cars to get to Atty Mays. The contents of my small vehicle was highly amusing, filled as it was with the hunky big guys Paz, John and Kenny with Penny gamely squeezed in between them in the back seat. We were thrilled and relieved to discover we were all smokers ;-) - - Our time at Atty Mays could fill several more posts. Suffice to say that it was absolutely wonderful. She encouraged us to play for hours and hours and we had many great performances by Marian, Ashara, Paz and ChuckE. After Marian and Ashara left, Pearl and I filled in. Pearl was great and I felt amazingly comfortable thanks to the kind spirit of inclusion of Paz and ChuckE. The crowd was pretty good to us, but their applause level went up considerably every time we did Big Yellow Taxi - definitely the hit. Chuck is a such a good person and I am so appreciative of his back-breaking labor and constant willingness to get people set up to perform. His wife Barbara joined us and she is very elegant, yet totally fun at the same time and was still going and glowing at closing time! We closed it down along with Penny, John, Pearl and Steve (who have got to be the most easygoing couple I've ever met!) Paz and I stayed a little longer after closing to visit with our friend Atty May who we feel like we've known all our lives. I so hope we will be seeing her again. As for Mr. Paz, to borrow a phrase "what can I say that hasn't already been said?" In addition, I must say that he is an amazing friend who has watched out for and over me through two Jonifests now. A true, true gentleman with a spirit that we are very lucky and blessed to have in our midst. Thank you so much, Michael, for your unending good nature and sense of music and fun. I could go on and on but must go meet an old friend who has moved back to town. Yes, he wants to get together for a martini ;-) Love, Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:19:36 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Lolita (NJC) > In the meantime, I can always play "Don't Stand So Close to Me" by the > Police! :~) > > Bob > It's no use He sees her He starts to shake & cough Just like the Old man in That book by Nabokov Good one, Bob! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:31:42 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Happy to share in your delights. > Thank you all. > > What more can I say? It has been such a wonderful experience to be a > small part of this incredible community of Joni Lovers. > > Thanks again to all. Get better Wally. God be with you. > > John. > What a great post! Welcome John! Let us hear from you regularly. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:11:47 -0600 From: evian Subject: Movie soundtracks NJC Don Rowe tweaked my memory with: > "9 1/2 Weeks" -- Just like Baywatch only > semi-sinister, this cheesy softcore has a GREAT > soundtrack including numbers from Bryan Ferry, Sade, > Joe Cocker "You Can Keep You Hat On" (this scene might > be the best music video EVER) ... > > I totally forgot what an awesome soundtrack this is! I also would like to add the Valley Girl Soundtrack, which has songs like "Angst in your Pants" by Sparks, "Johnny Are You Queer" by Josie Cotton, "A Million Miles Away" from the Plimsouls, "I La La La Love You" from Pat Travers' Black Pearl, and one of my fave 80's bubble-gummy tracks, "Jukebox (Don't Put Another Dime)" from the Flirts. And actually, I love the movie too. Also, Against All Odds has a great soundtrack, with the title track, of course, a GREAT track from Stevie Nicks "Violet and Blue", Peter Gabriel's "Walk Through the Fire", and tracks from Big Country and Kid Creole and the Coconuts. Another one that I love is the Streets of Fire soundtrack. I remember really hating the movie, but the soundtrack is worth it for Dan Hartman's "I can Dream About You", a song that makes me get that warm and fuzzy in love feeling when I hear it. The soundtrack also has a GREAT song from Marilyn Martin "Sorcerer", written and with back up sung by Stevie Nicks, and it also includes the Fixx's "deeper and deeper" (I LOVE THE FIXX!!!!). Oh, and one more. The Girl Six Soundtrack. I have never seen the movie, but I hear it is a crapfest. I stumbled upon this soundtrack a few years ago, and bought it because it had "Screams of Passion" by the Family, a song I loved in the 80's. All the songs are written by Prince, and it's well worth it if you are a fan. It even has Vanity's "Nasty Girl", if anyone cares! Oh yeah, and the Practical Magic Soundtrack. I HATED HATED HATED that movie, but the Soundtrack is great, with the Sheryl Crow produced track from Stevie Nicks and Stevie's solo version of "Crystal" (I SWEAR I don't govern my soundtrack buying because of Stevie tracks!), Faith Hill's "This Kiss", Joni, of course, Bran Van, etc. Evian np: "One More Big Time Rock and Roll Star" -- Stevie Nicks (I swear this is a coincidence, I was playing it before I starting rambling about Stevie, the soundtrack queen!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:10:07 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: More love letters (very long) From: "Kakki" Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:11:45 -0700 I'm still blissing but a little bit of lucidity has returned so that I can further rhapsodize about our wonderful time. Exactly one week ago I had come down with a cold and an allergic reaction to a tetanus shot (nasty stuff!), was working 15 hour days on a court deadline, was definitely "up to my neck in alligators" and had "jaws (i.e., lawyers) knashing at me." Right up until my flight out there was a possibility that I would have to ca.ncel the trip to Boston. A couple of my mean old daddy bosses did all they could to lay the guilt on me for taking a few days off. It all got to be too much and I finally broke down in tears (which I have NEVER done professionally) in front of one of the junior attorneys. Amazingly he proved to be a human being and insisted that I take off on my trip and completely forget about work. He literally scooted me of the door. So armed with seven prescriptions, I fled off into the night. Arrived in Boston on no sleep and drove up to Topsfield to hang out with John, Marian and Ashara before checking into my motel. Magically, I knew the way straight to Ashara's by heart (and those who have attempted the navigation know this is an incredible accomplishment ;-) Although I was overwhelmed by the beauty of her town and home last year, it seemed 100 times more beautiful to me that morning. It really is a storybook setting. Finally got a little rest that day and then joined the Friday night party. It was instant and constant bliss from there on through and, as you can guess, the love and fresh air immediately banished all that ailed me and I never once had to open any of those medicine bottles. Like Marian and John I have had no jet lag, either, (except that my late bedtime has slipped to 3 a.m. and must be reset soon ;-) There are so many memories replaying in my head and heart. John said it's like slides - at this point, it is almost like replaying my favorite movie over and over. "Jonifest - The Miniseries". It's all in a beuatiful slow motion but it all goes by so fast, too. Everything just fell into place - even the pizza and Chinese food were the best I've ever tasted! More highlights for me - - - Listening to the tape of Marcel in the rental car on the way back Friday night. I had enough time to listen to it twice through as I discovered there was no way to cross the highway to get to my motel and I had to do a 10 mile long circular route to finally get there! Marcel recorded several of the early Joni songs and he did an amazing and perfect job. His voice is exactly like the young Stephen Stills, which really lent a special feel to Joni's music. It really touched me that he had been so inspired to get himself back into music again through this list and created such lovely renditions. - - Soon after arriving at the party Saturday, brand new jmdler Anne took the stage and sang and played her heart out. I was so impressed at her bravery and guts to get right on up there on the stage before her new friends! - - I was so happy to see Terry, who could not make it last year. It's just not the same for me without her there. Her beautiful musicianship and generosity of musical spirit is a must at our fests! Very late Saturday night she and Marian started up playing and singing out on the back deck and it was just fantastic. Oooh, and they did a bunch of songs from my fave FTR, too ;-) - - Later we carried on the back deck party with Father Patrick (I just love that - it is so perfect) presiding over a musical discussion with Wally K, Bob, Kenny, Paz, Les, Roberto and Laura. It is really true that Patrick knows and can converse about everything under the sun. His endless knowledge sometimes intimidates me, but he is very kind and never makes me feel shut out of the discussion. And he just sparkles and sparkles all the time. - - Still later I found myself sprawled on the floor in the music room with Les, Julie, Michael, ChuckE, Pearl, Steve and Paz. I finally was wasted enough (with bliss not martinis ;-) to actually sing and play a bit. Julie and I finally drug ourselves out the door back to the motel at around 5 a.m. and then as girls always do, sat up for another hour yapping. It was so great to see her again although I'm still going to get her back someday for waking up less than two hours later. But who can blame her - she couldn't wait to get back to Ashara's garden. - - We managed to stuff too many people into too few cars to get to Atty Mays. The contents of my small vehicle was highly amusing, filled as it was with the hunky big guys Paz, John and Kenny with Penny gamely squeezed in between them in the back seat. We were thrilled and relived to discover we were all smokers ;-) - - Our time at Atty Mays could fill several more posts. Suffice to say that it was absoultely wonderful. She encouraged us to play for hours and hours and we had many great performances by Marian, Ashara, Paz and ChuckE. After Marian and Ashara left, Pearl and I filled in. Pearl was great and felt amazingly comfortable thanks to the kind spirit of inclusion of Paz and ChuckE. The crowd was pretty good to us, but their applause level went up considerably every time we did Big Yellow Taxi - definitely the hit. Chuck is a such a good person and I am so appreciative of his back-breaking labor and constant willingness to get people set up to perform. His wife Barbara joined us and she is very elegant, yet totally fun at the same time and still going and glowing at closing time! We closed it down along with Penny, John, Pearl and Steve (who have got to be the most easygoing couple I've ever met!) Paz and I stayed a little longer after closing to visit with out friend Atty May who we feel like we've known all our lives. I so hope we will be seeing her again. As for Mr. Paz, to borrow a phrase "what can I say that hasn't already been said". In addition, I must say that he is an amazing friend who has watched out for and over me through two Jonifests now. A true, true gentleman with a spirit that we are very lucky and blessed to have in our midst. Thank you so much, Michael, for your unending good nature and sense of music and fun. I could go on and on but must go meet an old friend who has moved back to town. Yes, he wants to get together for a martini ;-) Love, Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #395 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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