From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #376 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, August 28 1999 Volume 04 : Number 376 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC: Coltrane vs. SNL [Kate Tarasenko ] "Holy Grail of Bassdom" ["Paul Castle" ] RE: relayer after mass NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: NJC: Coltrane vs. SNL [waytoblu@mindspring.com] World Party (NJC) [Maggie McNally ] Re: RLJONES.. (NJC) and kinda long... [Jerry Notaro ] Robert Wyatt ["Catherine McKay" ] Welcome, questioning Joni ["Catherine McKay" ] Joni, is she god/dess or what? ["Catherine McKay" ] Poets - NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Sandy Denny - NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Oz speak/Canuck talk NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] You must know them - NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: what side of the road/sidewalk? njc ["Catherine McKay" ] Do yiz want menues or are yiz just havin' coffee? NJC ["Catherine McKay"] Keith and Mick sitting in a tree K-I-S-S-I-N-G (njc) ["Catherine McKay" <] Tin angel/Teen angel ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: pronouncing ndegewhatthef**k (NJC) [Bolvangar@aol.com] The Sensitive Ones In Boston Herald 990827 ["Peter Holmstedt" ] re: where I was when ["Takats, Angela" ] Michael Franks Gig [Michael Paz ] Yes (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Kakki's Khakis (NJC) [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 02:11:24 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: Re: NJC: Coltrane vs. SNL Way to open the floodgates, Brad! I think you and I agree on more points than not, but first let me slide some "Out of this World" (Impulse! 1962) into the CD player, and steady myself in my most fervid non-musician stance. Although I do indeed consider musicians such as John Coltrane and Miles Davis to be legendary, revolutionary, barrier-smashing, cosmically-inspired and groundbreaking in their respective (and cooperative) achievements, when I refer to their memories as being somewhat sanctified -- "holy ground" -- I don't mean that they are (or were) untouchable. (Hell, even Jesus Christ had his off-days, as I recall -- but maybe I should stick to one incendiary issue at a time...) Miles went to Julliard; Trane practically invented a new kind of math when he scaled his scales. Each one started as a straight-ahead be-bop player. Eventually, they outgrew the confines of the genre and, through their restless experimentation, they led new generations to poke holes in the unknowable jazz membrane, and really play out, challenging each successive group of jazz and even non-jazz artists to find their own levels of musical nirvana. Often, as we sorely know here on the JMDL, that type of fearlessness precludes commercial and even critical success. But IMO, just like with Joni, neither Coltrane nor Miles ever played a wrong note. Maybe they played stuff that I couldn't get to (at the time, or ever), but as far as I was concerned (and as far as my very trusted, talented and knowledgeable musician-friends taught me), the stuff they played was never "wrong." You say: "On [Miles'] "Kind of Blue album" I hear lots of "missed notes" that would be hard to convice me would be a function of "artistic liscense" I submit that, perhaps, that's what the man wanted you to hear. But it IS all so subjective, so you're right -- no point in splitting hairs. One man's holy grail is another man's tin cup. So when I invoke the holy-holy when talking about these guys, it is with the full knowledge that, even in their GENIUS (and, as overwrought as that word is, I DO mean it), they were human and, as such, flawed, and not always on; conversely, in spite of their personal terrors, excesses and failures, they each left us with a musical legacy that, to my mind, is utterly incomparable -- and that goes for Hendrix and Jaco, too. (And yet, there's always room at the top!) You said: "...many people can only offer positive assesments of the vaunted "Jazz greats", while seemingly taking no effort to be critical where needed as if the could do no wrong...However, it is a lot harder to be (negatively) critical of those artists (and possibly prove your theories), especially in this day and age when the "Genius" status that is seemingly automatically applied to any of those who are no longer with us- Coltrane, Davis, Pastorius, Hendrix, Cobain, etc... It was as if to make a critcal comment or assesment of that person's work or questioning their status would be akin to spitting on their grave. Not all they do is gold- dead or alive. It has been my experience that few people take this approach in assesment of an artist. I have never been one of those aforementioned people." You will find few such people on the JMDL! This is one of the things I love about this list. I can speak only from the authority as a music lover and music consumer, but "You don't need to be a cook to know that the soup tastes bad." I welcome a critical take (positive and negative) on my favorite musicians -- I just wanna know the WHY behind the opinions. Sometimes, as is so often my case, I can defend the music I love simply in terms of how it moves me in a visceral way. I wish I COULD use a more universally-understood language such as music, but I hear something that goes beyond the music with Miles, and especially with Coltrane -- his joy, his reach, is so palpable to me -- I wish I could defend my point of view better, but I don't have the musical language to do so; I only have my gut to go by. (A small aside -- I personally wouldn't put Kurt Cobain in the same category with any of these guys EXCEPT for the fact that they're all dead. I place a pretty specific value on each of their bodies of work for very distinct and sometimes different reasons.) But more to the point (and forgive me if I'm wrestling with semantics here, one of my favorite pursuits) -- I don't think it's possible to prove any theories about why someone is great (or not), precisely because music IS so subjective. We can dissect an artist's work and discuss it in terms of musical style and musicianship, but I don't think one's greatness or genius can be "proved," as such. Argued and debated, yes, as we're doing now. You said: "In fact, I maintain that it is because I'm able to critically assess another's ability, will make me better, and/or knowledgeable about my own playing and development as a musician. This is the only way to learn ANYthing -- and forgive my borderline-Boomer language, but this is such a right-on remark. You go, boy... And thanks for the discussion! NP: John Coltrane, McCoy Tyner, Jimmy Garrison and Elvin Jones: "Miles' Mode" Kate in CO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:11:57 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: "Holy Grail of Bassdom" I enjoyed reading Brad Dietz's post on Jaco Pastorius, particularly as I have recently just finished reading Bill Milkowski's book "The Extraordinary and Tragic Life of Jaco Pastorius "The World's Greatest Bass Player" (Published by Miller Freeman Books, San Francisco) WallyK's (and many others) 'next' favourite poet, Arthur Rimbaud, is quoted after the acknowledgements: "He who is a legend in his own time is ruled by that legend. It may begin in absolute innocence but to cover up flaws and maintain the myth of Divine Power, one has to employ desperate measures." I must admit that this book, which I devoured pretty much in one sitting, has been haunting me a lot recently, especially as I have a very talented musician friend who is prone to self- destruction when something starts to go too well for him. This is what Joni says about Jaco in the book, as told to 'Musician' Magazine (apologies if this has appeared here before). "What can I say about Jaco? He was so accepting of everything going on around him at the same time that he was arrogant and challenging and always saying "I'm the baddest!" He was so alert and so involved in the moment. When people are in that state, they're generally fun to be with. He was very alive. There was a time when Jaco and I first worked together when there was nobody I'd rather hang with than him. A lot of people couldn't take him. Maybe that's my peculiarity, but then, I also have a fondness for derelicts. Jaco was a great spirit before his deterioration by these toxins. I thought he had wonderful eyes before drugs clouded them. Look at that portrait of him on his first album cover and see if he doesn't look like some Tibetan sage. When his talent and inspiration began to be corroded by the clouding over of perception that accompanies overindulgence in drugs and alcohol, then he became a tragic figure on the scene. He started to become unruly. In the meantime I lost contact with him. It was more of a drifting apart than a breaking off. He went off with Weather Report and they played Japan and I heard tales of him jumping into fountains naked, going amok in the Orient. I just didn't see him that much after the Shadows and Light tour. I think Jaco had a beautiful animal wisdom that I don't see as a madness at all. In Jaco, I saw some of those expressions as a celebration of life. Strange behaviour, certainly, but I don't think it was demented." _____________ PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 07:29:52 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: relayer after mass NJC i just have to tell this story. when RELAYER came out all my friends and i were simply blown out. we loved fragile and close to the edge and the rest, but relayer was so new: kind of scary and VERY avant garde. though they said that the keyboard parts had already been written by wakeman, moraz gave the album such a distinctive touch. [by the way, their first choice to replace wakeman had been vangelis, who in the end refused the offer, for the benefit of the history of art rock and my mental health.] i hope what i'm going to tell won't offend any church-goers. my friends and i loved relayer to such a point that we'd sneak the album into church and linger after mass. when the place was deserted, we'd prop the album up against the tabernacle [the locked receptacle where the consecrated hosts are kept in roman catholic churches] and right then and there kneel down and worship the record!!! i know exactly how it sounds, but that was me in my teen years. and yes, liking yes and emerson, lake and palmer was a nerdish thing here in those years. the stones, taj mahal and -- drop dead -- joni mitchell were ok. i still think that moraz' solo after the cha cha cha cha cha on sound chaser is the coolest solo ever played on a synth. wallyk, np tales from topographic oceans. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:48:11 -0400 From: waytoblu@mindspring.com Subject: Re: NJC: Coltrane vs. SNL - -- I don't think it's possible to prove any theories about why someone is great (or not), precisely >because music IS so subjective. We can dissect an artist's work and >discuss it in terms of musical style and musicianship, but I don't think >one's greatness or genius can be "proved," as such. Argued and debated, >yes, as we're doing now. Agreed. Great music transcends beyond any boundaries and defies any description or analysis. Sure, different points or aspects can be discussed individually and apart from the whole, but music has a language of its own that has far more depth,vision, and subtlety than the written language we use. There is this intangible quality that cannot be defined. It is this mystery that lends itself to the beauty of music as a reflection of reality itself. Victor NP:Michelle Malone-Under the Devil Moon (release party tonight at Eddie's Attic for Michelle Malone-Homegrown!) > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:16:32 -0400 From: Maggie McNally Subject: World Party (NJC) To whomever asked about the name of the World Party disc with the song Ship of Fools on it...it's _Private Revolution_. I would have emailed privately had I not deleted prematurely! Maggie McNally ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:58:21 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: RLJONES.. (NJC) and kinda long... Wolfebite@aol.com wrote: > > i liked her comments too- > between songs- with chris doritos... or whatever is name is.. again she > seemed real direct and honest- That interview which I listened to through the net was the most coherent and intelligent I've ever heard her. The few times I've seen her live have been very disappointing. There is a fine line between style and affectation. Jerry, going to see John Cleary and his band tonight ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 11:15:28 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: NJC: Coltrane vs. SNL All this talk about Coltrane now... must be the start of the latest style ... is it all in books and words or do you really feel it ...... Kate wrote: I wish I COULD use a more universally-understood language such as music, but I >hear something that goes beyond the music with Miles, and especially >with Coltrane -- his joy, his reach, is so palpable to me -- I wish I >could defend my point of view better, but I don't have the musical >language to do so; I only have my gut to go by. A big 'ME TOO' here. I listen to 'A Love Supreme' and can't help but hear genius. That album takes me places. You stated "one persons grail is anothers tin cup" ----- how true! > But more to the point (and forgive me if I'm wrestling with semantics >here, one of my favorite pursuits) -- I don't think it's possible to >prove any theories about why someone is great (or not), precisely >because music IS so subjective. We can dissect an artist's work and >discuss it in terms of musical style and musicianship, but I don't think >one's greatness or genius can be "proved," as such. Argued and debated, >yes, as we're doing now. RIGHT! That goes for *any* artists work. Go back and read some delightful banter between Terry and Patrick about abstract impressionism ..... wonderful! This is what I love about this list. >You said: "In fact, I maintain that it is because I'm able to >critically assess another's ability, will make me better, and/or >knowledgeable about my own playing and development as a musician. > This is the only way to learn ANYthing -- and forgive my >borderline-Boomer language, but this is such a right-on remark. >You go, boy... And thanks for the discussion! Thanks to BOTH of you! Heather ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 15:47:32 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: what side of the road/sidewalk? njc Perhaps i'm a bit late jumping into this. I haven't had access to a computer for a while, so I'm really behind in my reading. When I was a kid in grade school, we were taught that, when walking on a road, where there was no sidewalk, you should walk on the left side (which would be the opposite side to where the cars drive here in North America), the idea being that you would be able to see the cars coming towards you, whereas, if you walked on the same side as the cars, the might sneak up on you and run you over. On the other hand, if the street you were walking on did have sidewalks, you could walk on whatever side you wanted. This was part of "Elmer's safety rules". Did anyone outside of Canada have Elmer the Safety Elephant when you were learning road safety, or is that uniquely Canadian? Elmer went out of style for a while, but recently, they've funked him up a bit and he's back in the grade schools - he even has his own flag. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 15:51:31 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Walk where you want NJC Quite a few years ago, I once did an experiment on this, just for the sake of being ornery. I walked along the sidewalk as if I didn't notice anyone else on it to see when they would move to the side. They all seem to do it when they're a certain distance from you - this distance is probably different according to what your particular ethnic group's rules on "personal space" happen to be. At one point though, as I approached a rather strange-looking woman coming the other way, she started yelling at me about how I was supposed to move to the right when someone was coming the other way. That was quite weird and when I realized that my experiment could provoke violent reactions from certain other pedestrians, I realized my silly experiment probably wasn't worth a knife in the back, so I stopped doing it. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 15:55:27 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Robert Wyatt I've never heard of Robert Wyatt, but if your list of your faves is any indication, I'm sure I would love his stuff. Can you tell me any more? cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:11:34 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Welcome, questioning Joni Is lurking a sin? Welcome to the digest. Of course you don't have to agree with Joni. She's not infallible. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:13:08 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Joni, is she god/dess or what? Actually I should have said "She's not God. She's one of us." ;) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:07:13 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Poets - NJC e e cummings; W. B. Yeats; Gerald Manley Hopkins; Emily Dickinson; Robert Frost; Wm Shakespeare - there are doubtless many more. And Dr. Seuss (My son and I are very fond of "What was I scared of?" about a Seussian creature who meets a pair of pale green pants with nobody inside 'em; and the Sneetches.) These things are not just funny, they do have a point. I read in the paper today that there's a new Seuss book coming out soon with his political anti-Nazi cartoons in them - I never knew he did stuff like that. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:23:36 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Sandy Denny - NJC So she told the little creep to fuck off, did she? What a laugh! that someone could have that angelic voice with that personality and the smoking and all - I wonder what she would sound like now if she were still alive? I've just bought a 3-CD anthology of her stuff - what a voice! You hear the voice, and you think she's sweetness and light, but if you see the photographs of her, you can see the devil in her eyes! cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:41:20 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Oz speak/Canuck talk NJC It sounds as if your westy bogan could be similar to what some of we Canadians refer to as "hosers". I'm not sure who actually originated this term, but if you've ever seen the Mackenzie brothers on SCTV (Second City TV), these two are genuine hosers. They dress in grubby jeans and flanelette shirts over grody T-shirts, they usually wear tuques on their heads (or baseball caps in summer), the do little else besides watch hockey on TV and drink nothing but beer, always purchased by the two-four (a case of 24 beers). Many of them speak with a particular lilt to their voice, although some of this depends on what part of Canada they're from. Generally the lilt belongs to those who have lived up north for some time, or somewhere where there's a higher concentration of French-speaking people which has had an effect on the way both English and French are spoken. I have spoken (in French) to people from eastern Ontario who do not speak a word of English, but where I could swear that their first language is English, not French - they speak French with an anglo accent, so I have to ask them if they wouldn't rather speak English. If their last name is not Mackenzie, it is probably Leblanc. The first name will likely be Bob or Bruce if it's a guy, and Lise or Nicole if it's a girl. Here's an attempt at putting their speech pattern into written words - this is sort of the way my brother speaks. As kids we lived in Pembroke, in the Ottawa Valley, which has its own peculiar accent such that a word like "car" is pronounced "care", the word "mirror" is pronounced "meer", the "th" sound usually becomes a "d", and accents are on the wrong syllable (for example HO-tel, rather than ho-TEL, and the non-word "eh" shows up frequently, as in: "We drove de care down to de HO-tel, eh, and we sat around drinkin' beer and watchin' de hockey game on de TEE-vee, eh, and we got plastered, eh?" Here's a few lines from that great Canadian talent, Stompin' Tom Connors: "Oh, it's closing time at Inco [Inco is a nickel-producing company] and the boys are getting stinko on a Sudbury Saturday night". [Sudbury is in Northern Ontario - I imagine the "Empire Hotel" is located there.] I don't mean to offend anyone by this - I'm a hoser at heart myself, but I don't think I have the accent (or maybe I do, but I can't hear it!) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:50:38 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: You must know them - NJC Your mentioning how people get mixed up in thinking that just because someone is in the same country must mean they know each other reminds me of an incident in my family. Some years ago, my parents were in Switzerland. The chap who ran the hotel they stayed in mentioned that he had a brother in Canada, and asked my parents if they wouldn't mind delivering a letter to him. My Dad, always the gentleman, and perhaps not being able to explain to his host (due to language problems) that the two cities are thousands of miles apart and that no, he didn't know this guy's brother, agreed to take the letter. (My parents are just outside of Toronto, and this guy's brother lived in Vancouver). Although it would probably take less time to fly to Europe than to fly to Vancouver from Toronto (or maybe just a bit more, although flying to Europe from Toronto is cheaper than flying to Vancouver, which explains why I've never been there!) my parents arrived home some two weeks later with this letter to be hand-delivered. My Dad hung on to the letter for quite some time, thinking that he might be going out to Vancouver one day soon for business or for pleasure, but this trip never materialized. Ultimately he ended up mailing the letter from Toronto to Vancouver. By this time, a year had passed. I guess the guy should have just mailed it in the first place. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:56:35 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: what side of the road/sidewalk? njc By "funked-up", here's what I mean - he used to wear shorts, a sort of a T-shirty thing and a goofy-looking hat, so he'd be considered a nerd by today's standards. The last outfit I saw him in (the funky version) was baggy pants (the kind rappers wear, where you can see their undies and they always looked like they dropped a load in their drawers!), a baseball cap (of course), a cool T-shirt or sweatshirt and (I may be making this part up!) sunglasses and a skateboard. >From: "Janet Field" >To: "Catherine McKay" >Subject: Re: what side of the road/sidewalk? njc >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:14:43 +0700 > >Hi Catherine! > >Here is a quick off-list reply - I'm still smiling at the mental picture of >a 'funked-up' Elmer! >No news to report of a NZ equivalent to him although I'm a bit out of touch >with the relevant age-group at present. But the protocol for walking >towards on-coming traffic is totally familiar. > >I'll be interested to read what the list makes of this..... >Cheers, >Janet > >---------- > > From: Catherine McKay > > To: janetf@bigpond.com.kh > > Cc: joni@smoe.org > > Subject: what side of the road/sidewalk? njc > > Date: Saturday, August 28, 1999 10:47 PM > > > > Perhaps i'm a bit late jumping into this. I haven't had access to a > > computer for a while, so I'm really behind in my reading. > > > > When I was a kid in grade school, we were taught that, when walking on a > > road, where there was no sidewalk, you should walk on the left side >(which > > would be the opposite side to where the cars drive here in North >America), > > the idea being that you would be able to see the cars coming towards >you, > > > whereas, if you walked on the same side as the cars, the might sneak up >on > > you and run you over. > > > > On the other hand, if the street you were walking on did have sidewalks, >you > > could walk on whatever side you wanted. > > > > This was part of "Elmer's safety rules". Did anyone outside of Canada >have > > Elmer the Safety Elephant when you were learning road safety, or is that > > uniquely Canadian? Elmer went out of style for a while, but recently, > > they've funked him up a bit and he's back in the grade schools - he even >has > > his own flag. > > > > cateri@hotmail.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:04:59 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: The bowels of... NJC Jeez, Bob, that was effin' brilliant, as usual. Do you ever actually perform this stuff? Have you ever recorded it? Do you remember a guy called Biff Rose (or maybe it was Rhodes) who wrote original but humourous songs back in the '70's or so? One of his lines that I will never forget, and which gives me the giggles every time it comes to mind, is this: "He's just a shell of a man But if you hold him to your ear, You can hear the ocean roar..." cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:15:15 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Do yiz want menues or are yiz just havin' coffee? NJC I think that "grande" thing may be exclusively Starbucksese. I've never seen any other coffee place use anything but "small, medium and large" (here in Canada anyhoo.) It confuses me too. If I do inadvertantly wander into a Starbucks, I usually just point at a cup and say "I want a cupful of your darkest brew in THAT kind of cup". I don't want to make it too obvious that I'm a yahoo who doesn't understand the phony Italian they insist on using in Starbucks. One thing that really confuses me, though, is the use of the word "regular" and what it means in different contexts. If you order a "regular" coffee here in Canada (or at least in Toronto), it means you want coffee with cream and sugar. A friend of mine tells me that in certain parts of the US, if you order a coffee "regular", it means black coffee - with nuthin' in it. I've also seen the word "regular" used to mean either a "small" or a "medium" cup as well - so if you wanted to order a medium coffee with cream and sugar in Toronto, would you ask for a regular regular? cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:35:16 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Keith and Mick sitting in a tree K-I-S-S-I-N-G (njc) >4. Keith Richards semi-french-kissing with Mick during "Shattered" (Ithink) All I can say to that is "iiiwwwwww!" cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:37:04 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Tin angel/Teen angel That is a really NEAT idea! I wonder if Joni could be persuaded to do a medley with Tin Angel and Teen Angel, a la Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody? It could work! cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:59:07 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Re: pronouncing ndegewhatthef**k (NJC) Michael Y. wrote: <> When I look at her albums in the store, there's a sticker on them from the record company saying "pronounce: n-DAY-gay-o-chello." Is this just wrong? (It wouldn't surprise me!) - --David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:48:25 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: The Sensitive Ones In Boston Herald 990827 Bonnie and pals Raitt high marks ( Daniel Gewertz ) Boston Herald ( Friday, August 27, 1999 ) Bonnie Raitt, Jackson Browne, Shawn Colvin, Bruce Hornsby and David Lindley, at the Tweeter Center, Mansfield, last night. It was a band that set the gold standard for American pop rock. The names tell part of the tale. Bonnie Raitt, Jackson Browne, Shawn Colvin, Bruce Hornsby: three decades of cogently rootsy, intelligent pop. But this was also a wonderfully organized three-hour show that was more than the sum of its starry parts. It was a true group effort with a smoothly shifting talent roster. There were duos, trios, striking harmonies, a mutual appreciation society. ``This is a present to ourselves,'' said Raitt. ``I'm having the time of my life!'' (It was also a family affair: her father, John Raitt, took a bow from the back of the stage.) Colvin, the ``youngster'' of the group, was just as thrilled. ``If you told me a few years ago I'd be playing with these people, I'd have just died,'' she said before the whole crew joined her for a moody, elegant version of ``Shotgun Down the Avalanche,'' a still dramatic song from her coffeehouse era. The only weakness of the night was a preponderance of mid-tempo mellowness that sometimes seemed closer to L.A. soft-rock than roots-savvy pop. Bruce Hornsby wasn't advertised as a headliner because of a recent, conflicting South Shore gig. But between piano, accordion and vocals, he dominated the night. As gifted and distinctive as he is, his plush jazz pop diffused some of the soulful blues-folk energy. It must be noted, though, that radically revamped jazzy versions of ``The Way It Is'' and ``Mandolin Rain'' were adored by the crowd of 9,000. The scope of the show was so wide momentum was sometimes sacrificed. The balladry by Colvin worked well, with ``Polaroids,'' and ``Mona Lisa,'' effectively moody. Raitt's ``Nick of Time,'' self-accompanied on piano, was devastating. The uptempo, urgent material by Browne was also a tonic, with David Lindley wailing like an inspired banshee on steel guitar and a crazy array of stringed instruments. ``The Pretender,'' ``Running On Empty'' and ``World in Motion'' were especially tasty. Lindley, who opened in frisky duet with drummer Wally Ingram, was as swampy down-home as Hornsby was uptown sophisticated. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:48:06 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: The Sensitive Ones In Washington Post 990827 Shawn Colvin's Group Dynamics ( Geoffrey Himes ) Washington Post ( Friday, August 27, 1999 ) SHAWN COLVIN still remembers the first time she heard Jackson Browne sing. "I was playing pool one day in Carbondale, Illinois, where I was going to high school at the time," the singer-songwriter recalls, "and this record came on with both 'Take It Easy' and 'Rock Me on the Water.' Now I had heard the Eagles' version of 'Take It Easy' and Linda Ronstadt's version of 'Rock Me on the Water,' but I hadn't heard these versions. I said to my friend, 'This guy is doing material that really suits him. He has pickedout some good songs and has done something original with them.' "I was a little embarrassed when I learned it was Jackson and he had written those songs. But those songs became a part of who I was, because they said a lot of things I wanted to say. Jackson had a very specific sound I immediately liked. It was that California thing but not quite as slick as the Eagles; it was more personal. Plus I always thought he was a dreamboat. So when I finally met him, I had stars in my eyes, but he was very down-to-earth and very generous." Colvin and Browne are part of a special all-star band that's coming Thursday to the Merriweather Post Pavilion. Joining them are two more singer-songwriters, Bonnie Raitt and Bruce Hornsby, as well as a full band led by multi-instrumental whiz David Lindley, Browne's longtime collaborator. Filling out the lineup will be percussionist Wally Ingram, guitarist George Marinelli, Hornsby's keyboardist John Thomas and Browne's current rhythm section-drummer Mauricio Lewack and bassist Kevin McCormick. "It isn't a song swap or four different shows," Colvin insists; "it's one long, seamless evening of entertainment. There's never less than two of us onstage at any time and there's often as many as 10 of us. Jackson, Bonnie, Bruce and I each do seven or eight songs of our own choosing but not all at once; they're interspersed throughout the evening and they're different from the album versions. I'll take a song of mine, like 'Shotgun Down the Avalanche,' and rather than staying true to the original, I'll have Bonnie playing slide, David playing violin and Bruce singing harmony. "It's a chance to be part of a band rather than just a front person and to do it with people whose music you really love. When you play or sing on someone else's song, you experience a different feeling than doing your own song. If it's something you've loved for years, like Jackson's 'Running on Empty,' it's like singing with the radio. Getting to sing and play on one of Bonnie's songs, like 'Love Sneakin' Up on You,' is a chance for me to get my ya-yas out; I'm not going to do a song like that in my regular set. "The tour came about as a result of a series of benefit concerts that Browne, Raitt and Hornsby did last year for the victims of Hurricane Mitch. In sharing vocals and instrumental parts, the three found that the pleasures of collaborating with peers were a welcome relief from the pressures of leading a band. Colvin, Lindley and the rest were invited along for the ride. Colvin was a natural choice, for she has played numerous benefit concerts with the other three. She has sung with Browne at the Bread & Roses Festival in San Francisco and at the Verde Valley School benefit in Arizona and once opened shows for him on a two-month tour. Hornsby played piano on Colvin's debut album, 1989's "Steady On," and she sang on his album, 1990's "A Night on the Town." Hornsby sang on Colvin's version of the Browne composition "Tenderness on the Block" on her 1993 album "Fat City," and Lindley played guitar on that album's "Polaroids." In 1997 Colvin sang with Raitt on the Grammy Awards show and at the Rainforest Foundation's annual benefit gala. "There's something special about playing a benefit," says Colvin. "Because you're freely giving of your time for a cause and because the audience is there for the same cause, there's a sense that you're allowed to do things a little differently. The audience doesn't have the attitude of, 'Hey, I paid to see a Bonnie Raitt concert; I want to hear her hits.' They're open to different things happening. "When I did the Rainforest benefit with Bonnie and Lyle [Lovett], we all did R&B songs. No one felt obligated to play the hits, and that made it fun. It's everyone's fantasy to get up and play a song they love with another artist they love. It's like recess from the regular school day. The purpose of this tour is to preserve that same atmosphere." Colvin may not be as well-known as her new bandmates, but she's had more success in recent years. Her 1996 album, "A Few Small Repairs" (Columbia), went platinum, won two 1997 Grammy Awards for Record of the Year and Song of the Year, and yielded a hit single, "Sunny Came Home." That song enabled Colvin to tie Celine Dion for most weeks ever (11) at the top of Gavin's Adult Contemporary chart. Since then Colvin has released a successful Christmas album, 1998's "Holiday Songs & Lullabies," and has begun work on her next disc. Once again co-writing and co-producing the material with her longtime partner John Leventhal, Colvin plans to finish the new project after the current tour and to release it next spring. "The general way John and I work," Colvin reveals, "is it's mostly my words and his music. I'll hear something of his and put words to it, or I'll write some words and he'll find some music he's already written that goes with my lyrics. That happened on the last record with the song, "The Facts About Jimmy." I showed him the words and he had a piece of music just sitting around that fit perfectly. "When I put the new record out and go to radio with a single, that will show whether the hit and the Grammys make any difference," Colvin adds. "I have a good relationship with my label and a loyal fan base, so I know I'll always have a career. But of course having a Top 40 hit can take it to another level. If it happens again, yes, I'll say my career's changed. If not, it was nice to have had a hit, but my life will continue as before. It's the second hit that determines the trajectory of your career." When the new album emerges, Colvin will support it with a solo tour where she will either perform alone or as the front person with a backing band. So she's enjoying her band of peers while she can. "I'm not completely satisfied with just being a solo performer," she admits. "That was a problem of mine in my earlier days, because I was always getting out of a band and being a solo performer and then feeling dissatisfied and getting back into a band. I could never decide which was the best way to go. Collaboration seems to be something I need; I just enjoy singing with other people. The camaraderie is very important, too; it's good not to be totally insulated in your own little world and the people who work for you." SHAWN COLVIN, JACKSON BROWNE Bonnie Raitt, Bruce Hornsby and David Lindley appear Thursday at the Merriweather Post Pavilion. © Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 11:56:30 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: RLJONES.. (NJC) and kinda long... There is a fine line between style and > affectation. I agree completely! And this is one of the things that always bothered me about RLJ. I think she steps over that line. Style for style's sake doesn't appeal to me at all. There has to be something worth knowing at the core before it will appeal to me. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:44:34 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Essra and Joni and Woodstock Randy quoted: (btw, randy, great job of info getting!) just have to chime in on this one... I just want to say that I, for one, believe every word of this and I base my opinion on my personal acquaintence with Joni herself. even if it's *not* true, this is just like her. this, at least back when I knew her, is just how Joni created her art... from life! she didn't isolate herself and wait for a song to come to her in a vision or something... she opened her arms and her being to people and to life and wrote what she experienced and observed. this quote *does* say something for essra, but it also says something for Joni... this is *not* typical. most performers and musicians have their ego trips and distance themselves, but Joni was never like that. this is a quote from 'the confessional poet 1971-73' page of wallyB's bio section: "First of all I'll write something down and then I think: 'Oh, I like how the words sound together but it doesn't say anything.' When I finish a new song I take it and play it for my friends who are fine musicians and writers. I'm very impressed by their reaction to it. If they like it, I'm knocked out. I guess I write for those people. They're really my audience." no, I don't have a hard time believing this claim at all... but I may be wrong. I'm behind so maybe ol' simon has already weighed in with 'the real story', which he does so well, but that's *my* $.02! *S* pat NP: Tin Angel http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 07:10:32 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: re: where I was when This is an adorable story Bob, I enjoyed reading it and it brought a big smile to my face. There's no way I can sit thru Black Crow without drifting away and I know now not to put it on when I have company (my friend was very much offended when I did the big "shooosh, for a second, isn't this the best song, listen..." ooops) The guitar playing in BC lifts me to amazing heights and takes me back to dark fields near my university, cold, windy days with crows hovering above....sigh Your story also reminded me of my babysitting days....let me just say that the four and six year old girls down the end of my street know all the words to BYT - as well as some groovy dance moves and hand actions ;-) Ange Sydney <> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:39:43 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Michael Franks Gig Hello All- I have been dying to get to the computer to share my experience this week with Michael Franks. What an amazing guy! We hit if off quite well and I was quite comfortable with him and I feel like he was with me as well. Instead of riding in the Limo bus he chose to ride with me and "keep me company". On the ride in from the airport I had Joni playing on the car cd player and we talked about her alot. I told him about Joni Fest and the list and that the songs we were listening to were selections I was preparing for my set at Joni Fest. He told me about hanging out with her years ago during the Guerin period. He currently is living in Woodstock and has a place down on an island in Fla. near Ft. Myers. To my surprise at the airport my hopes were confirmed that the Egan listed in the band was indeed Mark Egan from Pat Metheny's earlier work and a band with Danny Gotlieb called Elements. He is also an extremely nice man and we had quite a bit of time talking and hanging out. My friend Jack that works for the Limo company that I booked for airport transfers came out in a stretch limo (as a favor) to help me transfer the band and Michael back and forth from the hotel to House of Blues. Later that night after an incredible set at House of Blues and getting Michael tucked into bed at the hotel (with the better behaved musicians). A few of the band guys and myself went out on the Bourbon St. run. In the car again with Joni on the box Mark responded to Joni and talked about how much he like her. Big fan of Hissing and Hejira. He loves Edith and The Kingpin and was quite knowledgeable about the song titles etc. If I only would have had the guts to invite him to Joni Fest to play bass. Oh well there is still a week left and I have his email address etc. so maybe I'll get up the nerve. Don't wanna be too pushy. I will be eternally grateful to the Tour and Road managers that work for MF, for having me do their gig for them (they were out with Lilith Fair the lucky stiffs). As it turns out Michael tours only on the weekends and according to Charles his music director, they will be calling me for my services again. This will be fine with me (a great chance to hook up with Joni listers across the nation). I urge you guys to check out Michael's new album Barefoot on the Beach and definitely check out Mark Egan's stuff. Mark has a web site at www.markegan.com. You can order stuff directly from his page. If you like Metheny you will indeed like Mark. I love the Elements Illumination album. By the way on one of Mark's solo records "Beyond Words" you will find Joni Vet Don Alias on Percussion as well as guitarist Toninho Horta, who has collaborated with Pat Metheny as well. I guess I better stop gushing, reading this over I sound like a star struck teen age girl. The Lord continues to bless me with wonderful musical and magical experiences and I wish the same for all of you. Have a good weekend! Love and Peace Michael NP-Campfire Stories-Mark Egan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:56:14 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Yes (NJC) Martin wrote: "Yes I can. I've always thought that it's just the pessimist in me, but I've been thinking. It actually goes back to the mid 1970s for me. I was a huge fan of the band 'Yes', having got into their albums Fragile, Close To The Edge and Relayer. Then they released Going For The One which had only a couple of good tracks. The came Tormato. Which has to be one of the worst albums ever produced by any one at any time ever. Ever." Martin I am a huge Yes fan as well. I love Going for the One AND Tormato. Both albums had some questionable production flaws, BUT the music is fantastic. Onward and On the Silent Wings of Freedom are a couple of my faves as well as Circus of Heaven which I play and Release Release. I prefer live recordings I have of alot of the songs. They have a new album called The Ladder out on Sept. 28. I have advance copy on the way to me now. I also found out they are playing the House of Blues here in October. I understand what you are saying about buying new albums, but I am such an addict that I get them anyway and even if I don't get it at first I try again. Best wishes, Michael NP-Seranade-Mark Egan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:11:28 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Kakki's Khakis (NJC) Kakki wrote: > > Anyone checked out this new poll/contest from CDNow yet? They have the > temerity to not have listed Joni as a choice! There is, however, an "Other" > option and I suggest we flood their system with our write-in votes! Oh, and > by voting, you are automatically entered in a contest to win GAP jeans and > khakis for life. Here's the link: > > http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/redirect/leaf=gap/from=rex:x:cdn:9825t > I voted for my "other" Joni Mitchell. 6% of the vote had gone to Other category at the time of my vote. Best, Joni Michael NP-After The Rain-Mark Egan ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #376 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?