From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #365 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, August 24 1999 Volume 04 : Number 365 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: To Ashara wherever ye may find her ["Kakki" ] Re: Glad To Be On Digest (NJC) [=?iso-8859-1?Q?Winfried_H=FChn?= ] Re: Joni Rip off Cd's NJC [lisa durfee ] HAPPY BIRTHDAY ASHARA!!! (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Ashara meeting (NJC) (JMDL content) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Joni on cable [Heather Galli ] Re: Joni on cable [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni on cable [Heather Galli ] EssraMohawk NJC [john noble ] Re: Joni on cable [Randy Remote ] Re: Joni on cable [Heather Galli ] Re: Joni on cable [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Poets NJC [Martin Giles ] SAL video [Martin Giles ] The bowels of majordomo [Jason Maloney ] Opening tracks [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] favourite non-joni musicians (NJC) ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: Joni on cable [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Sandy Denny (NJC) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Seeing Ashara...JMDL gathering in Sydney ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: Top Ten non-Joni (NJC) [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)] re: oz speak ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: Joni on cable ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: EssraMohawk NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] todd rundgren (NJC) ["patrick leader" ] Kelly from Detroit checkin' in... [LuvnMyWrld@aol.com] Re: Joni on cable [Scott and Jody ] Top 5/10 non-Joni favourites (NJC) ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: walking like we drive (NJC) ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Opening tracks [IVPAUL42@aol.com] RE: Poets NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Kiwi Cake (NJC) ["Helen M. Adcock" ] RE: Poets NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Poets NJC ["Kakki" ] Re: Kelly from Detroit checkin' in...(NJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Essra and Joni and Woodstock [Randy Remote ] Re: Alternative Tunings (SJC) ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:15:37 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: To Ashara wherever ye may find her (I'm putting a magic spell on this post so Majordomo won't hiccup uncontrollably again ;-) Just got in from a great evening with Steve, Michele, Ken & Clark showing Ashara a taste of L.A. Ashara looked surprisingly glowing after her long flight from the other side of the world. We enjoyed a 2 1/12 hour dinner at the landmark Daily Grill and heard about Ashara's Excellent Adventures in OZ and even got to view the video of her bungee jump! It was great to hear about her meeting with the Australian JMDL'ers, too! We later stopped in at the Bel Air Hotel bar and waxed a little nostalgic about our adventures there back in May 1998 and how great it is that we can continue to connect with each other from all over the planet. I drove Ashara along the Sunset Strip and Hollywood Boulevard and she enjoyed the sights. Only wish she could stay longer, but hopefully she will visit us again. Clark gave me a tape of his recently completed compilation of songs that he has been prolifically writing lately and we listened to it in the car. (We loved it, Clark - it's excellent!) Sorry we missed some of the gang like Don, Phyliss and Lindsay, but you were with us in spirit. And, no, we didn't spot Her, but there were uncanny lookalikes at both the DG and the Bel Air that had us doing a few triple takes! Have a great rest-of-your trip, Ashara, and thanks for stopping in to see us in L.A.! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:52:47 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Winfried_H=FChn?= Subject: Re: Glad To Be On Digest (NJC) Chad writes: > Hiya Folks, > Just wanted to say that I am glad that I am on the digest and not getting > every post after that crazy repost incident. LOL. But that way you missed out on seeing smoke coming from your delete-button! LOL. Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:46:45 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: for jmdl guitarists Just a note to let guitarists know I've added tabs for HOSL and Lakota to my guitar page. http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm I wanted to add them to Sue's guitar section over the weekend, but could not get the FTP to work right - there was a problem with the firewall which was fixed about an hour ago. I will try to add them to Sue's page ASAP. I also updated the tabs for Man To Man and Ladies' Man with the new tuning I found last week. I'm not really sure about the tuning for HOSL. It's really hard to hear Joni's guitar for this one and the guitar chords I do hear in the recording sound higher than the chords produced in this tuning. On the other hand, you will notice that the bass notes of the tuning naturally occur in the recording, and that the top notes of the bar on 333333 are also naturally there. I think it's possible that Joni might have started this song in this tuning, and then with influence from John Guerin (the co-writer of the song), added in the chords which have unusual (for Joni) chord shapes - i.e., the chords in the bridge. The bridge is the only really tricky part, but I think it sounds okay if you avoid striking the strings that are x-ed out. Hope you enjoy these! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:54:59 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Comments on Lakota This has never been one of my favorite Joni songs, but after working out the chord shapes over the weekend I have come to appreciate it a little more. Musically, I really like beginning Indian chant and the chanting in the background during the song. I have always felt uncomfortable with the words "pity me", I guess because I have trouble with the word "pity" - it has a negative connotation for me. I am wondering if anyone has thought much about this song. Does the Lakota language have a special word that translates to "pity" that is part of a religious ceremony or something? Because the song seems to be like a prayer to sun, moon, rocks, grass, etc. Is the meaning more like "have mercy on me" or "help me"? This is a very political song which I don't think has ever been mentioned in any discussions of Joni's political songs. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:00:46 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Kiwi Cake (NJC) Janet Field janetf@bigpond.com.kh wrote, from a kiwi (NZ) point of view - >>It's a quiet sort of place so usually we just spread out and walk where we >>want to! For Janet and other kiwi's on the list, I thought you might enjoy this - from English newspaper 'The Guardian' - Concerning a sign seen in a Police canteen in Christchurch, New Zealand: 'Will the person who took a slice of cake from the Commissioner's Office return it immediately. It is needed as evidence in a poisoning case.' PaulC PS. I used to work with a woman affectionately known here in London as "Sheep-Dip Diane from Dunedin" Ever come across her? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:01:08 -0400 From: lisa durfee Subject: Re: Joni Rip off Cd's NJC I know some Innocence Mission fans complained about some Ebay bootlegs to support@ebay.com and got the persons auctions closed down. As long as people complain and there are legal infringments Ebay will act on this kind of stuff. liså D (avid ebayer) CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: > HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=149708038">eBay > item 149708038 (Ends 08/29/99, 16:36:07 PDT) - Import Joni Mitchell @ Temple > Uni, PA, 8/74 > This guy keeps selling these on eBAy and is making a ton of money off of > them. what can we do to stop him? I mean legally. > Catgirl > ps he has a bunch more and keeps adding more and more all the time! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 06:46:21 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: HAPPY BIRTHDAY ASHARA!!! (NJC) Ashara! How is it that twins can have different birthdays? Mine's not 'til April! I hope your birthday was wonderful and that your trip around the planet was grand! Sounds like the LA contingency treated you well. (I would expect nothing less.) Can't wait to see you in a couple of weeks! {{{{{Ashara}}}}}} Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:47:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Glenn Plotner Subject: Re: Top 10 non-Joni artists Well I would choose: Van Morrison, Joan Armatrading, Alex Chilton/Big Star, James Brown, Delaney & Bonnie, Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac, Al Green, Etta James, Rickie Lee Jones, and Ronnie Lane/Small Faces, but that would leave out Otis Redding, The Band, Boz Scaggs, Maceo Parker, Natalie Merchant/10K Maniacs, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Steely Dan, Jimi Hendrix, Ten Years After/Alvin Lee, and Aretha Franklin. Ignatz === Ignatz Mouse's Tape Trade Archive and Seriously Disturbed Humor http://members.xoom.com/rabidfox Thought Experiments, The Metaphysical Think Tank http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thoughtexperiments __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:52:34 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Suffering from Joni-itis and loving it! Debby said: <> Hi Debby and welcome! yes, you are hereby quarantined in the "Joni-itis Ward" (no relation to the Phyliss Ward) :~) <> I also thought "One of Us" to be a fine song, and I used it in conjunction with "God Shuffled His Feet" by the Crash Test Dummies in my Sunday School class from time to time. <> Yes indeed, just don't send it 115 times! :~) Bob NP: The Replacements "Someone Take the Wheel" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:37:03 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: To Ashara wherever ye may find her Kakki wrote: > Just got in from a great evening with Steve, Michele, Ken & Clark showing > Ashara a taste of L.A. (snip) Sorry we missed some of the gang like Don, > Phyliss and Lindsay, but you were with us in spirit. Sorry I missed it too but we had a great time at the Tom Petty concert here in Bakersfield. Rock and Roll is NOT dead! We were able to get a copy of the poster my husband drew in 1971 for one of his first concerts in Gainesville, Florida to Tom via one of his roadies. We had hoped to get the original autographed but alas it was not destiny... > And, no, we didn't spot Her So where in the world is siquomb these days anyway? Any sitings? What ever happened to the London Philharmonic thing anyway? Any news from across the pond? - -- Phyliss, rockin' in B-Town pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:04:07 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Joni on cable This week, two concert movies with performances by Joni will air. Times are Pacific. Celebration at Big Sur tonight, Mon Aug 23 11:30 PM HBO signature The Last Waltz Fri Aug 27 9PM Encore ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:26:28 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Ashara meeting (NJC) (JMDL content) John Low wrote: >I was thrilled to meet Ashara but ... I swear I only pressed the >'send' button ONCE !!! Whew! Thanks, John! The man formerly known as Steve "Spammer" Dulson is now off the hook! (If you don't remember those incidents *I'm* not going to remind you!) Kakki, Clark, Ken C., Michele and I had a wonderful meeting with bungee-jumping dolphin-swimming Joni-fest-hosting Ashara last night. Dinner at Daily Grill, drinks at the Bel Air hotel bar (we took Van's table, for those of you around in May of 1998). Despite what must of been massive jet-lag, Ashara was wonderful company, and I am delighted that I got to meet her at last. And it's always great to get together with the other LA jmdlers! ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:52:52 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Joni on cable Is anyone taping these shows for those of us who cannot receive them on our cable networks? Heather >This week, two concert movies with performances by Joni will >air. Times are Pacific. > >Celebration at Big Sur >tonight, Mon Aug 23 11:30 PM >HBO signature > >The Last Waltz >Fri Aug 27 9PM >Encore ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:52:26 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on cable In a message dated 8/23/99 12:50:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gallih@ccsu.edu writes: << Is anyone taping these shows for those of us who cannot receive them on our cable networks? Heather >> Both of these shows have been around for more than 20 years and have been shown thousands of times on dozens of channels. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:12:22 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Joni on cable >In a message dated 8/23/99 12:50:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gallih@ccsu.edu >writes: > ><< Is anyone taping these shows for those of us who cannot receive them on our > cable networks? > > Heather > >> >Both of these shows have been around for more than 20 years and have been >shown thousands of times on dozens of channels. > >Paul I Therefore, and in conclusion, nobody should tape them. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:28:41 -0700 From: john noble Subject: EssraMohawk NJC Hi Wally, Sorry to take so long getting back to you. Essra's comments about Laura Nyro were basically that Laura and David Geffen got her a contract with Reprise, cut an album and then sat on it for a year and a half. When her second album came out, Primordial Lovers, Laura was ensconced as the Queen of White Psychedelic Soul, and the mystical urgency of Essra's sentiments was already sounding dated. Cheers, Tucker np Linda Lewis-Lark 1973 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:48:17 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni on cable > Both of these shows have been around for more than 20 years and have been > shown thousands of times on dozens of channels. Not really. I've been getting satellite TV with access to almost every US channel since the early '80's, and this is only about the 5th time I've seen Big Sur being shown. The Last Waltz has been shown alot, but not in recent years. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:11:17 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Joni on cable >> Both of these shows have been around for more than 20 years and have been >> shown thousands of times on dozens of channels. > >Not really. I've been getting satellite TV with access to almost >every US channel since the early '80's, and this is only about the >5th time I've seen Big Sur being shown. The Last Waltz has been >shown alot, but not in recent years. I have never seen the Big Sur show. If anyone is willing to tape a copy of this show for me, I would highly appreciate it. Please e-mail me privately. I will send a blank tape, etc. Thanks in advance :-) Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:12:24 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Joni on cable Ditto on that! Sounds like some great stuff will be on it. At 2:11 PM -0500 8/23/99, Heather Galli wrote: >If anyone is willing to tape a copy of this show for me, I would >highly appreciate it. Please e-mail me privately. I will send a >blank tape, etc. >Thanks in advance :-) ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:04:42 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: Re: Poets NJC Wally... For a long time now I have been trying to track down a poem called 'Very Like A Whale' or something like that, which I read in a text book many years ago when I was at school. I couldn't remember the author, but I wonder if it was Ogden Nash - do you recognise the title? All the best Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:51:54 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: SAL video I have just got my copy of the SAL video that came out recently. I have been wanting to get hold of this since the mid 1980s, but couldn't find it anywhere over here. It's a Japanese import, and I've just noticed this credit: Keybords (sic ;-) Lyre Mays. Arf Arf. Martin. Just about to go home and play SAL over and and over and over. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:44:53 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: The bowels of majordomo > Isn't Joni working on a song about "The bowels of Majordomo"? > > sorry, couldn't resist :-) > Jimmy LOL, Jimmy......this is a wonderful idea...hahahaha....now, maybe our resident merchants of parody could conjure up something for us? hmmm? :-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:37:08 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Opening tracks I've been thinking about Joni's choices for the opening tracks on all of her records...to me, it's important that an album have a good lead-off track, kind of like having a good leadoff hitter in Baseball; you want one that'll make things happen and set the right tone, by the same token, you don't want to give away the goods too soon. Looking at Joni's choices over the years, she has made some really good picks for leadoff (Cotton Ave, I Had A King, Night Ride Home) and some not-so-good picks (Tin Angel may be the only one, I would think "Midway" or "Gallery" would be better in that slot). But by the same token, I hate that she starts off TTTwith the most aurally exciting piece IMO (Harlem). And I wish Mingus would start with one of the original songs and not with that "Happy Birthday" stuff. What do the rest of you think with reference to Joni's "leadoff hitters"? Interesting that sometimes she leads with the title track and sometimes not...would it change the flow of DJRD if the title track was the first one you heard? Just wondering, Bob NP: Stan Ridgway, "Wild Bill Donovan" -------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 06:59:02 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: favourite non-joni musicians (NJC) Hey Listers..... Sometimes I forget that there are other great musicians out there because I am so often swept away with Joni...but my boyfriend forced me to listen to other artists in our "uni years" - and now they've become my favs too....so here they are: Neil Young CS & N Leonard Cohen James Taylor Carole King Cat Stevens And more modern-day-ish: Elliot Smith Sheryl Crow Indigo Girls Trying to think music other than Joni ;-) Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:13:04 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Opening tracks In a message dated 8/23/99 4:41:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << Looking at Joni's choices over the years, she has made some really good picks for leadoff (Cotton Ave, I Had A King, Night Ride Home) and some not-so-good picks (Tin Angel may be the only one, >> WOA! I *just* finished listening to Clouds, which I hadn't played in a gazillion years, and thought to myself that Tin Angel is such a strange opener for this album. Of all the songs, I never got to know this one very well so I made a special effort to give it a good listen. When Chelsea came on next, it made me wonder why she chose TA as the opener. I KNEW I shouldn't have seen The Sixth Sense this week. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:34:01 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Poets NJC Martin, The original reference of "Very Like a Whale" is from Hamlet by Shakespeare: Hamlet: Do you see yonder cloud that's almost in shape of a camel? Polonius: By the mass, and 'tis like a camel, indeed. Hamlet: Methinks it is like a weasel. Polonius: It is backed like a weasel. Hamlet: Or like a whale? Polonius: Very like a whale. Hamlet, Act III, Scene II ======================================= The poem, by Ogden Nash, is: Very Like a Whale One thing that literature would be greatly the better for Would be a more restricted employment by authors of simile and metaphor, Authors of all races, be they Greeks, Romans, Teutons or Celts, Can't seem just to say that anything is the thing it is but have to go out of their way to say that it is like something else. What does it mean when we are told That the Assyrian came down like a wolf on the fold? In the first place, George Gordon Byron had had enough experience to know that it probably wasn't just one Assyrian, it was a lot of Assyrians. However, as too many arguments are apt to induce apoplexy and thus hinder longevity, We'll let it pass as one Assyrian for the sake of brevity. Now then, this particular Assyrian, the one whose cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold, Just what does the poet mean when he says he came down like a wolf on the fold? In heaven and earth more than is dreamed of in our philosophy there are a great many things, But I don't imagine that among them there is a wolf with purple and gold cohorts or purple and gold anythings. No, no Lord Byron, before I'll believe that this Assyrian was actually like a wolf I must have some kind of proof; Did he run on all fours and did he have a hairy tail and a big red mouth and big white teeth and did he say Woof woof woof? Frankly I think it very unlikely, and all you were entitled to say, at the very most, Was that the Assyrian cohorts came down like a lot of Assyrian cohorts about to destroy the Hebrew host. But that wasn't fancy enough for Lord Byron, oh dear me no, he had to invent a lot of figures of speech and then interpolate them. With the result that whenever you mention Old Testament soldiers to people they say Oh yes they're the ones that a lot of wolves dressed up in gold and purple ate them. That's the kind of thing that's being done all the time by poets, from Homer to Tennyson; They're always comparing ladies to lilies and veal to venison, And they always say things like that the snow is a white blanket after a winter storm. Oh it is, is it, all right then, you sleep under a six-inch blanket of snow and I'll sleep under a half-inch blanket of unpoetical blanket material and we'll see which one keeps warm, And after that maybe you'll begin to comprehend dimly What I mean by too much metaphor and simile. Ogden Nash ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:02:36 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on cable In a message dated 8/23/1999 2:10:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gallih@ccsu.edu writes: << I have never seen the Big Sur show. If anyone is willing to tape a copy of this show for me, I would highly appreciate it. Please e-mail me privately. I will send a blank tape, etc. Thanks in advance :-) Heather >> I have never seen it either and would love a copy of it. I could make a trade with someone for something so please get back to me too! Catgirl privately of course! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:20:57 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Sandy Denny (NJC) In a message dated 17/08/99 21:00:40 GMT Daylight Time, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: << Richard Thompson was being interviewed and he was asked what caused Sandy's death. Apprently, she did die of a head injury but it's unclear as to whether it was from the last fall, or whether it exacerbated injuries she sustained in earlier falls. He said she was a "hard living" woman and though he and others were shocked by her sudden death, they weren't totally surprised. >> A friend of mine is a German music journalist, who has interviewed Richard Thompson on more than one occasion; he once asked him if "Did She Jump or Was She Pushed" (from the amazing "Shoot Out the Lights") is about Sandy; and he replied in the affirmative. She was indeed a hard living woman, albeit with the voice of an angel. One of my favourite anecdotes about her concerns a young and rather earnest fan who approached her after a gig. Awestruck by her voice and concerned at her heavy smoking, he made some well-meaning remark about the perils of tobacco. Her reply? "Fuck off you little creep!" Whatta woman!! Azeem in London, been listening to Todd Rundgren's "Something/Anything", and have decided to learn how to play "I Saw The Light", 'cos it's a perfect pop song. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:58:44 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: Seeing Ashara...JMDL gathering in Sydney Hey guys, I was afraid to make this subject title "meeting ashara" after John's message madness ;-) We Sydney JMDLers had a short but wonderful meeting in Sydney on the weekend. I was very nervous about the whole - meeting internet people - thing...but the experience blew me away. I can't believe that this really is a community we are a part of...meeting fellow JMDLers and sharing with them just makes this list experience even more exciting and fulfilling - and I'm so keen to hopeully one day meet up with more listers across the globe. I hope you all have the best time at the labor day bash at Ashara's place.....we Sydney JMDLers will be thinking of u, and trying to fight off thoughts of jealousy! Hey - if you all sing loud enough, we might just hear you down here! Thanks to everyone who participates, writes, reads and makes this list the wonderful community that it is :-) Ange - looking forward to seeing you all at one of the ANNUAL (pretty please Ashara) jonifests in the near future Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:16:48 -0400 From: waytoblu@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Opening tracks > ><< Looking at Joni's choices over the years, she has made some really good > picks for leadoff (Cotton Ave, I Had A King, Night Ride Home) and some > not-so-good picks (Tin Angel may be the only one) I actually like Tin Angel as the first track on Clouds. Clouds is a very introspective album and Tin Angel kind of sets the tone. Also, Tin Angel really showcases her voice and her guitar playing very well. Its definately IMO a very intense song and stands out among the others on which she has a lighter singing style. And Chelsea Morning works really well as a second track because of its contrast to Tin Angel though I don't think it would work as well the other way around. Victor NP: JM Clouds > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:45:34 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: walking like we drive (NJC) Hey there Loren, I know I'm behind with these posts, but I just love the way you think...you crack me up..I'm reading all these posts about dulcimers and tunings and meanings etc etc and then I read yours...and it made me stop and just laugh and think "yeah...I wonder about that too!!" :-D Now I'm not from the UK, but we is Oz drive on the left side of the road...and I tend to walk the same way...making sure people pass me on the right side! (but because I am so unco-ordinated I often bump into men in corridors at work when I veer onto the wrong side of the path and get the comment - bloody women drivers !) So that's my two cents worth - coming right at you on the left side..or is it right? ;-) Wacky thoughts from Ange down under <> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:17:13 -0400 (EDT) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: Re: Top Ten non-Joni (NJC) Oooooh a Top Ten List! What a novel idea for a thread! Never miss an opportunity for one of these. From the home office in Scranton, PA and in no particular order, although I seriously doubt if any of these will ever fall from my top ten: grateful dead david bromberg (band) jefferson airlplane hot tuna allman brothers little feat neil young bob dylan bruce hornsby loudon wainwright (he falls to 11 when Joni is included) gdave NP: ABB: 8/23/97 PNC Arts Center, NJ - ----------------------------------------------------------------- DaveBase @ www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:28:58 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: re: oz speak Hey Paul, LOL!!!!!! I laughed lots when I read this post and it made me wonder where on earth you could have hear this term from? he he he he...this is my take on it: <> (now keep in mind that these words are based on major stereo-types in australian society, so please noone take offence) Westy - Sydney siders are split in two - westy ferals and northern snobs...the idea that if you live in the Western suburbs of Sydney, you wear flannelette (sp?) shirts, beenies, tracksuite pants, boots, have a fag hanging out of your mouth at all times, and your name is something like "sheree" or "colette" (BTW, they say that if you live in the north - u drive a BMW, go to a private school, have a mobile phone and wear designer labels) Bogan - basically you are a full dag...loser, have no friends, u r a bit gumby, like do really silly things, you are a loner and totally not trendy Broadmeadows - is a place, can't tell u exactly where it is, but I would assume it is west of Sydney TAFE - is a technical college that has various courses for people wanting to further their education after high school, but maybe that don't want to go to uni, or they want to do a course of personal interest in later life So....how did I do...clear as mud now Paul PLEEEEAAAASE tell me where you heard this term...I'm dying to know! Ange - the bogan from Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:56:27 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni on cable > > << Is anyone taping these shows for those of us who cannot receive them on our > cable networks? > > Heather > >> > Both of these shows have been around for more than 20 years and have been > shown thousands of times on dozens of channels. > > Paul I > Well I've never seen 'Celebration at Big Sur'. Don't recall ever seeing a TV listing for it either and I would have noticed it. So I guess not all of us have been so fortunate to have had the opportunity to tape and/or see it. Mark in Seattle wondering where I was during those thousands of times and why I never got those dozens of channels. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:58:51 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: EssraMohawk NJC > > Hi Wally, > Sorry to take so long getting back to you. > Essra's comments about Laura Nyro were basically that Laura and David > Geffen got her a contract with Reprise, cut an album and then sat on > it for a year and a half. When her second album came out, Primordial > Lovers, Laura was ensconced as the Queen of White Psychedelic Soul, > and the mystical urgency of Essra's sentiments was already sounding > dated. > Cheers, Tucker I'm sorry but this woman sounds like a big whiner to me. Mark in Seattle > np Linda Lewis-Lark 1973 > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:19:49 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: todd rundgren (NJC) azeem, a todd fan too. it's too much. now if he'd duet with siberry... > >Azeem in London, been listening to Todd Rundgren's >"Something/Anything", and >have decided to learn how to play "I Saw The Light", 'cos it's a >perfect pop >song. > i read an interview with todd where he talked about the process of writing s/a. he said it was scary, it was becoming way too easy to write perfect, short pop songs, (and s/a is full of them) so that after that album he wrote a completely different album, a wizard/a true star, that is all over the map, with zappa-esque experiments and psychedelia, low humor and a cover of 'never never land' of all things. still brilliant, just completely different. luckily, todd never got truly tired of writing pop gems, in 1977 he released 'hermit of mink hollow', which is all nearly perfect singles. yum. patrick, just now getting his head above water. i can't believe i'm going to see all these fantastic joni-lovin friends, new and old, at bungee-woman's house. too cool. np - toshi reagon - kindness ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:18:50 EDT From: LuvnMyWrld@aol.com Subject: Kelly from Detroit checkin' in... Hey all---Saw a post about lurkers..me being one...Just thought I'd say hello--you haven't heard much from me since our divine Joan was here in Detroit --- where a suite full of jmdler's had the once in a lifetime chance to meet her and saw her perform at the palace ...I was 4 days away from giving birth..and my son (who was breech) turned during the concert--THANKS JOAN! We also had our c-section to TTT-per my request of course for relaxation purposes --all the operating room staff enjoyed it as well. Just thought I'd check in and say I'm alive and well. And now my 4 yr gives us lip sync performances on the fireplace to Big yellow taxi...A girl with superb taste! I hope everyone I met at the Townsend hotel are well. Also wanted to wish my very dear friend Amy (fellow JMDL-er) a very happy birthday(18th of august) for without her I would be JONI-less. Here's to great friends! Blessings and Peace, Kelly ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:31:12 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: Joni on cable Randy, We get two HBO channels and neither of them mention Celebration at Big Sur. Has HBO branched off that much? I'd be more than happy to tape this show for folks, not to mention that I'd Love to see it! I've never seen it. I guess some of us don't watch t.v. as much as we should;~) If it's at 11:30 Pacific time - I'm in Central - Oh Great! :~( Maybe our cable guide messed up - gotta go! jody ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:33:26 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Top 5/10 non-Joni favourites (NJC) Hello to all - I decided to finally come out of lurk-mode, where I've been for the last few weeks. Been having a few health problems. First my doctor thought it was chicken-pox, then glandular fever (US = mono), then maybe diabetes. Now she's concluded that it's the same 'flu virus that laid me low about 6 weeks ago. Apparently she's seen people who have been sick for 3 months or more, and my boss has a friend who's just been put into hospital in an induced coma with this virus - here's hoping I don't get that sick! Anyway, I'm finally starting to feel vaguely human again, so thought it was time I got back into the swing of things. So my top 5/10 non-Joni artists are: Bonnie Raitt Janis Joplin Indigo Girls Stevie Nicks Stephen Stills / Crosby, Stills & Nash James Taylor Carole King Shona Laing (NZ singer/songwriter) Sharon O'Neill (ditto - and original NZ "westy" chick!) Neil Young Of course that doesn't leave room for The Doors, Bob Dylan, Joan Armatrading, The Buffalo Springfield, Dave Dobbyn, Fleetwood Mac, The Mamas & The Papas, etc., etc.! Maybe the top 100 would have been better! Helen NP - Red Hot Chili Peppers - Californication (great album!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:37:31 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: walking like we drive (NJC) >my left side. Once, in the Bahamas, I nearly got clobbered by looking the >"wrong" way before I attempted to cross the road. >Do you folks from the UK walk like you drive? Does this question make >any sense at all?>> This makes absolute sense! Kiwis drive (and for the most part) walk on the left hand side of the road/footpath, but I remember nearly getting myself killed in Maui and in LA by looking the wrong way before stepping out! Interestingly though, in Maui we had a rental van, and it was much easier to adjust to "driving" on the right-hand-side of the road, than it was to adjust to "walking". Maybe we just concentrate more in a car than on foot - which I guess is a good thing! Helen - in NZ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:38:58 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Opening tracks In a message dated 8/23/99 7:14:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: << ><< Looking at Joni's choices over the years, she has made some really good > picks for leadoff (Cotton Ave, I Had A King, Night Ride Home) and some > not-so-good picks (Tin Angel may be the only one) I actually like Tin Angel as the first track on Clouds. Clouds is a very introspective album and Tin Angel kind of sets the tone. Also, Tin Angel really showcases her voice and her guitar playing very well. Its definitely IMO a very intense song and stands out among the others on which she has a lighter singing style. >> Thanks, I couldn't have said it better myself. Also, it should be noted that Tin Angel was a song that had been recorded by Tom Rush on his "Circle Game" album, and so it may have already received some airplay. I think opening with Chelsea Morning would have been too much, too soon; knocking first-time listeners back on their heels and setting them up for some disappointment because the rest of the album does NOT follow the tone of that song. As was said above, Tin Angel is much more representative of the entire album than Chelsea Morning. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 00:45:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Poets NJC Mertin, Yes!!! It is Ogden Nash!!! Now I won't rest until I find it in one of the books of my youth. As soon as I spot it, I'll send you a copy. Wally\k - -----Original Message----- De: Martin Giles Para: JONI DIGEST ; Wally Kairuz Fecha: Lunes 23 de Agosto de 1999 13:25 Asunto: Re: Poets NJC >Wally... > >For a long time now I have been trying to track down a poem called 'Very >Like A Whale' or something like that, which I read in a text book many >years ago when I was at school. I couldn't remember the author, but I >wonder if it was Ogden Nash - do you recognise the title? > >All the best > >Martin. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:46:05 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Kiwi Cake (NJC) PaulC wrote: > >PS. I used to work with a woman >affectionately known here in London >as "Sheep-Dip Diane from Dunedin" > >Ever come across her? There are a lot of Kiwis in New Zealand, you know (well over 3 million at last count)! I've got friends who live in Wales - Adrian and Ruth. You live in the UK, you must know them!? Sorry, I don't mean any offence, but this kind of question always makes me giggle. Actually one statistic that is really weird - there are more Western Samoans living in Auckland, New Zealand, than there are actually living in Western Samoa! So many have emigrated and had children here, that the population in one city is more than in their own country! I always find that incredible! Of course I'm not going to mention the proportion of sheep to humans here. That's a whole other ball game! Helen - poking fun in NZ! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 00:54:50 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Poets NJC I can't believe I failed to mention the poet that next to Joni Mitchell had the most significant influence in shaping who and what I am: Arthur Rimbaud. Wally\K ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:36:12 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Poets NJC Wally K. wrote: > Yes!!! It is Ogden Nash!!! Now I won't rest until I find it in one of the > books of my youth. As soon as I spot it, I'll send you a copy. > Wally\k Geez, I can't believe you are bringing up Ogden Nash (and great job finding the poem, by the way, Martin!) For some cosmic reason my own mama taught me to speak, read and make words rhyme from immersing me in his poems from the time I was an infant. By age two, she bragged I could recite most of them, but don't ask me now! But here is a cute one that is current with me ;-D Kakki There is something about a Martini, A tingle remarkably pleasant; A yellow, a mellow Martini; I wish I had one at present. There is something about a Martini, Ere the dining and dancing begin, And to tell you the truth, It is not the vermouth-- I think that perhaps it's the gin. - --Ogden Nash ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 00:12:09 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Kelly from Detroit checkin' in...(NJC) Kelly! Good to hear from you again! How IS that baby doing? I'll bet he's the only child who ever entered this world to Joni tunes. Makes him the youngest member here. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:33:38 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Essra and Joni and Woodstock I was curious about Essra Mohawk's role in the creation of Joni's "Woodstock", so I left a question about it on her website. This is my question and her answer. RR > > I feel a bit teased by the one liner in your bio about having inspired > > Joni's "Woodstock". What's the story? > > Joni and I became friends after we were introduced by our mutual manager > at the time (not now) Eliot Roberts. We all lived in Laurel Canyon and we > used to get together (joni and I) and sing our songs to each other. I saw > her right after I got back from Woodstock where I was scheduled to play but > my manager lost sight of the promoter's (Michael Lang's) car who was > leading us to the festival site. When Michael turned off to head for the > heliport we missed the turn and ended up driving in with the masses which > is why we arrived too late for me to perform. I really felt bad that I > didn't get to do it because I really felt one with all the people there. I > related all that I felt about the whole thing to Joni. I believe I read her > a poem I wrote about my impressions of the event. Anyway she came back the > next day..played me "Woodstock" her new song that she just written and told > me she wrote it from my music...so it was influenced (according to her) by > my music as well as my ideas..and yes I can hear my music in there. So > that's the story! > > Peace....essra ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:58:51 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Alternative Tunings (SJC) For those of you interested in learning more about alternative tunings, I stumbled across a great article on the web recently that gives a nice bit of history, includes a beginner's introduction on "how to" and is easy to understand. The web address is: http://www.win.net/mainstring/tunings.html And, of course, there is a bit of Joni content. It's too long to post it all but here are some excerpts: ALTERNATE TUNINGS FOR GUITAR By Pat Kirtley © 1992 From a workshop presented at the Chet Atkins Appreciation Society Convention, 1992 A Brief History Of The Modern Use Of Alternate Tunings "There have long been alternate ways to tune the guitar. In an 1838 guitar method book, The Elements of Guitar, a version of the tune Spanish Fandango, titled simply "Fandango" is presented as an example of a song in a "Peculiar Tuning", which turns out to be Open G. Alternate tunings started to have more popularity in the USA around 1920 with rise of the blues. The tuning that became most popular with the blues players is open G, or DGDGBD. The blues players used this tuning with and without a slide or bottleneck. It became known also as Slack Key tuning and is used in a distinctive playing style in Hawaii to this day. "This tuning has much in common with the standard G tuning on five string banjo, and because of this, a theory has been advanced that it is an "original" American invention. However this same note sequence appears in the tuning of the German cittern- the Thuringer Waldzither. Since many of the early American guitar makers came from those areas in which the Waldzither was the most widely used plucked instrument- it is just as likely that "Slack Key" was brought to the U.S.A. by one of these European immigrants. We could say that the recent movement of alternate tuning started in the early 60's and was in full force by the early 70's. The revolution came from several fronts, and all players using alternate tunings today (outside of blues revivalists) can trace their inspirations back to three waves of influence. The first wave began in the early sixties with the British fingerstyle guitarists Davey Graham, Martin Carthy, John Renbourn, and Bert Jansch. The latter two were the core of the popular British folk group Pentangle and featured complex and challenging guitar arrangements in the group's material. Most of what these players did at that time is seminal to what has happened stateside with regard to the use of alternate tunings. It is said that Davey Graham "invented" DADGAD, and that he is the founder of the British folk revival. Some background on the roots of the British acoustic guitar playing revival of the early 60's is found in the 1977 British book "Guitars" by Tom and Mary Anne Evans: "Whereas American steel-string players are heavily blues based both in original inspiration and style, English musicians are more eclectic. There is an important historical reason underlying this: while American folk music, whether black or white, has a long tradition of guitar accompaniment, there has been no equivalent use of the guitar in English or European music. Before the 1950's, the one way for a guitarist to make a living was in a dance band. Thus when the revival of interest in the steel string guitar began in Britain in the late 1950's, there was no ready made audience with pre-formed musical tastes, and no one obvious tradition to draw on for inspiration. The English players were therefore not inhibited from using a wide range of sources in creating their own music. These sources included American blues and country music, and whatever elements could be suitably adapted to the guitar from traditional British music, Indian music, Irish pipe and fiddle tunes. The British players extended this eclectic freedom to encompass alternate tunings. If a tuning allowed a player's style to be enhanced or extended, or to emulate certain ethnic music sounds, there was little hesitation to utilize it. Ironically, most of the British players, when asked, claim American bluesmen as being a motivating force in their development. The next direction came from what I will call "Fingerstyle Guitar Heroes". This group is characterized by John Fahey and Leo Kottke. Almost everything they played was in something other than standard tuning. In the case of Leo Kottke, a whole style of playing was introduced by his tunings and fierce right hand technique. The playing styles of Fahey and Kottke were largely influenced by country and blues: a tuning they favored was DGDGBD. A unique aspect of their popularity is simply that they were solo guitar players. The next heroes to bring tunings out of the closet and onto the turntable were Chet Atkins and Jerry Reed. Chet recorded tunes such as "Blue Gypsy" in DGDGBD (Open G) as early as 1952, and confounded more than a few players with Reed's "Steeplechase Lane" (DGDEBD) in the early 70's. Some of Jerry's complex and tricky tunes are possible only by virtue of an alternate tuning. One of Chet's finest albums in the eyes of many players is his 1973 "Chet Atkins Alone". This album featured unique arrangements of many old and familiar tunes arranged in several tunings as well as innovative new tunes. The third wave came with the Singer/ Songwriters of the late 60's, notably David Crosby and Joni Mitchell. David Crosby is a excellent "guitar thinker" and folk-pop innovator. I am sure that a whole generation of folk guitarists spent perplexing hours trying to figure out how to play songs such as "Guinnevere" and "Wooden Ships", which were in unique tunings and playing styles. Joni Mitchell was unique in that she was one of the few singer/ songwriters who could actually play the instrument. She used tunings as a creative part of the song writing process. Paul Simon brought a playing style back from England which was new to many American ears with his arrangements of such tunes as "Scarborough Fair" and Davey Graham's "Anji". ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #365 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?