From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #341 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, August 6 1999 Volume 04 : Number 341 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Fwd: People who like Joni ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Joni one-liners [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Joni one-liners ["Kakki" ] Re: Fwd: People who like Joni [luvart@snet.net] People Who Like Joni, Part 2 [Joseph Palis ] Re: Joni one-liners ["Mark or Travis" ] JAZZ TAKES...reviewed in JAZZ TIMES (Sept. issue) [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Joni one-liners [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: joni and her tunings ["P. Henry" ] Re: first post - a question [lisa durfee ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #143 ["Daniel F. Carey" ] Re: joni and her tunings ["P. Henry" ] Re: The Magdalene Laundries, my take ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: joni and her tunings ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Joni one-liners (Hejira) [Bolvangar@aol.com] Challenge [Leslie Mixon ] People who like Joni [evian ] Re: joni and her tunings ["P. Henry" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 18:21:11 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Fwd: People who like Joni > I'm straying a bit but, I was wondering how many of you have met Joni > fans aside from the jmdl? I knew several when I was in college one of whom lives in Seattle now and is still one of my nearest and dearest friends (I sometimes refer to my friend Melanie). When she & I met we got to talking about Joni. Eventually she got in the habit of introducing me to people by saying 'Mark is the only person I know who loves Joni Mitchell as much as I do'. I also know people who aren't die-hard fans like I am but know Joni's work and respect her. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:46:19 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: first post - a question/Cash and Conversation In a message dated 8/5/99 7:04:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << > Also, does anyone have the 'extra' verse of "Conversation?" It's in the > original LOTC songbook, which I (foolishly) lent to a friend years ago only > to have the friend and songbook disappear. I don't have the songbook but heard the extended version from one of the early Joni "bootlegs" of her live appearance at Club 47 in Boston. >> I have the "Joni Mitchell Complete" songbook with the while cover that has a cutout in the middle showing through to her FTR-era photo on the next page. This has songs from STAS, Clouds, LOTC and Blue, plus Carnival in Kenora, Jeremy, (A) Melody in Your Name, Moon in the Mirror, Poor Sad Baby, Straw-Flower Me, Who Has Seen the Wind and Winter Lady. Unfortunately, the lyrics to "Conversation" are as they were on the LOTC LP with no "grapes" or extra verses. :>( Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 18:46:28 PDT From: "Chad Burkhart" Subject: people who like Joni I just thought that I would put my two cents worth in on the subject. First of all I have to agree with all of you that think that FTR is a great first Joni album. I don't listen to it much anymore because I like Joni's more complicated and experimental stuff but everytime that I go through my Joni disks and pop it in I remember why I love it. I think it is one of her most accessible albums, along with LOFC and again I think Blue is another good first. It was my first and it really turned me on to Joni. I guess that Hits and Misses are good too but I don't really see them as 'JONI' albums so much because they don't tell the stories that the other albums do, they just don't have the overall atmosphere of the others if you get my gist. Also someone mentioned TI and I have to agree that it is not a good first album. While all of the songs are great and I love the album overall, it took me a couple of weeks to be able to listen to the whole thing right through, same with TTT although I don't think it is quite as accessible as TI. Darn Penny said something that made me relate but I just can't remember what it was so Penny if you remember what you said, Cheers, I agree....too many late nights studying and listening to Joni music for me. :-)Yours always, Chadly From Mountains ICQ = 41775889 Go where you will go to Know that I will know you Someday I may know you very well ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:11:41 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni one-liners Hejira is such a wordy album (which is one reason I love it) that it was difficult to extract exactly one line. Phew! These quotes pack a powerful punch! Nice thread, Penny! I hope I didn't screw up any of the lyrics... Coyote: Privately probing the public rooms Amelia: People will tell you where they've gone They'll tell you where to go But till you get there yourself, you'll never really know Furry Sings The Blues: Pawnshops glitter like gold tooth caps A Strange Boy We got high on travel And we got drunk on alcohol And on love the strongest poison and medicine of all Hejira (this was tough...so many good lines) You know it never has been easy Whether you do or you do not resign Whether you travel the breadth of extremities Or stick to some straighter line Song For Sharron: I can keep my cool at poker But I'm a fool where love's at stake Because I can't conceal emotion What I'm feeling's always written on my face Black Crow: In search of love and music my whole life has been Blue Motel Room: It's funny how these old feelings hang around You think they're gone No, no They just go underground Refuge Of The Roads "Heart and humor and humility" He said "Will lighten up your heavy load" Gina NP: Sleeps With Angels - Neil Young ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:14:37 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni one-liners I typo'ed: > Banquet - "Some get the gravy and some get the gristle, some get the marrow > bone and some get nothing thought there's plenty to share" "though there's plenty to spare" Kakki, going to eat her salty crow soup ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 22:43:35 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Fwd: People who like Joni Bob wrote: >> I experienced a similar thing with Laura Nyro - I bought "Eli >& >> The 13th Confession" and totally disliked it, so I'm just now >> getting to "Christmas & The Beads of Sweat" & "N.Y. >Tendaberry" > Mark wrote: >Go back, Bob, go back! I was listening to 'Eli' in the car on the way >home tonight. It's a wonderful record and I believe it pre-dates >'Xmas' & 'N Y Tendaberry'. My favorite is still 'Xmas'. 'Tendaberry' >is the one I have the most trouble getting into. > Yes Bob, go back! My faves from "Eli" - Emmie, Stoned Soul Picnic, The Confession. With Joni, I started with FTR and went back. We all have to start somewhere, eh? Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:32:09 +0800 (CST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: People Who Like Joni, Part 2 Thanks for the posts and other suggestions as to how to make people like Joni. Actually, that guy who I tried to talk to buying BLUE and HEJIRA bought 4 Joni albums that evening (Hejira, FTR, HOSL and Mingus). I know that Mingus might be an acquired taste, but he said that as he already was into Joni in a big way, he wanted to see her many layers. I remembered not meddling in his choices. He also bought Jackson Browne, Michael Ruff (?) and Rickie Lee Jones. I will no longer tell what albums I recommended although I recalled that I assented to his choice in the RLJ albums he eventually purchased: "Pirates" and "The Magazine". And, Kakki, yes... I am equally glad there was no accident after that. ;-) Joseph np: Jimmy Scott: "The Crying Game" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:16:55 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni one-liners Court & Spark ....you could complete me, I'd complete you Help Me ....we love our lovin' but not like we love our freedom Free Man in Paris ....I deal in dreamers & telephone screamers People's Parties ....I'm just living on nerves and feelings with a weak and a lazy mind and coming to people's parties fumbling, deaf, dumb & blind The Same Situation ....still I sent up my prayer wondering who was there to hear, I said 'Send me somebody who's strong and somewhat sincere' Car on a Hill ....it always seems so righteous at the start when there's so much laughter, when there's so much spark, when there's so much sweetness in the dark Down to You ....clutching the night to you like a figleaf you hurry to the blackness and the blankets to lay down an impression and your loneliness Just Like This Train ....I used to count lovers like railroad cars, I counted them on my side, lately I don't count on nothin', I just let things slide Raised On Robbery ....first he bought a 57 Biscayne, he put it in a ditch, he drunk up all the rest, that son of a bitch, his blood's bad whiskey I was raised on robbery Trouble Child ....well some are gonna knock you and some'll try and clock you, you know it's really hard to talk sense to you, trouble child, breakin' like the waves at Malibu Twisted ....he said I was the type that was most inclined when out of his sight to be out of my mind (ok so Joni didn't write 'Twisted but I still like that line) Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:33:37 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: JAZZ TAKES...reviewed in JAZZ TIMES (Sept. issue) May I brag a little? This is a major pub (costs $4.95) and the reviewer had only positive things to say; the exact reaction I was hoping for through all my work on it. Especially nice is the opening: "In a reverent and adventurous tribute to one of our greatest modern songwriters..." (The only questionable words are "one of" IMO.) And it looks like there will be another Lahm CD on Arkadia Jazz, at least half of which will be songs by Joni Mitchell. Choosing the material has been a real adventure, because I thought I had already skimmed off the cream of the repertoire that was suitable for jazz instrumentals. Happily.....I was wrong. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:40:06 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni one-liners This is an unfair thread. Joni has so many lines its ridiculous. From Nathan La freneer: "I hired a coach to take me from confusion to the plane" From dawntreader: "Mermaids live in colonies" Fort some reason these lines have always struck me as thought provoking in that they stopped me in mid thought. The meermaid line is innocuous but I said to myself "i didnt know that" until I thought "How did SHE know that". Thats genius and Thats why we love her, for doing that to us. marcel deste/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 20:43:49 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: joni and her tunings Pat Henry wrote: >> ie: Kakki, it just ain't so!!! *S* and Kakki responded: >I knew that, but even with all the evidence, it was impossible to convince my musician friend who idolizes Croz! I am more inclined to believe that Joni influenced him rather than that he showed her the way. She has had a tremendous influence on so many. Crosby's desire to experiment with alternate tunings in the music is one of the reasons he parted ways with the Byrds in the late 60s. Good thing he stuck to his own vision and musical inclination - the result shortly thereafter was the fantastic first CSN album.> well, you sure can't blame anyone for loving the Croz! *S* actually, to be embarrassingly honest, I wasn't aware of David's extensive use of tunings until I joined this list... and it explains a lot as to how he gets such interesting, beautiful sounds. I don't know if they are but I can easily hear my two favorites, Triad and Lee Shore, being played in tunings. also, after I posted I gave this subject some more thought, keying on your original post and the phrase 'alternate' tunings'... and it occured to me that, as far as Joni is concerned, there are 'alternate' tunings and then there are ALTERNATE tunings! I recall a handwritten setlist I found which she'd apparently left in the dressing room one time... ('67) each song had a simple capital letter next to it to indicate the tuning... E... G... A... D... the only exception was 'D modal'. to my knowledge there was no 'kitchen sink' or 'california' tuning at that time... *those* 'alternate' tunings came later sometime, so maybe....? pat NP: Black Crow http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 23:47:00 -0400 From: lisa durfee Subject: Re: first post - a question Brian Gross wrote: > SMEBD@AOL.COM writes: > >.......... if you live in NYC or ever visit, you can go to THE MUSEUM OF > > BROADCASTING and watch Joni's appearances ........ > > All right, New Yorkers - > can you give us 'outsiders' some info on this heretofor unheard of place? > > Thanks, > > Brian Its on 52rd Between Fifth and 6th, about a 1 minute walk from MOMA. I think it is officially the Museum of Radio & Television now. . They have thousands of hours of radio and television recordings in their library/archives. http://www.mtr.org/welcome.htm liså D ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 00:13:57 -0400 From: "Daniel F. Carey" Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #143 Interesting discussion about the various ways people have gotten "into" JM and where they are now... it's a windy road, no? I started way back at the beginning with the very first vinyl - kind of peaked with Blue - got lost for a long time when I was into other things - and stuff that wasn't real accessible (IMHO) came out (like Mingus) and then came screaming back to the fold with Chalk Mark... I carried that with me on a long Appalachian Trail hike one summer (on a cassette b/w Mary Black's By the Time It Gets Dark). I would lay in the woods at night and stare up through the trees into the night sky and just marvel at the beauty of it all. [Spent a LOT of time in the late 60's trying to figure out her open tunings and such - actually learned a lot of the early songs. Chelsea Morning - done in open G - was (is!) a big favorite. I still have a copy of her first songbook- the one with the yellow cover. Kinda beatup, but the songs play just as good.] Then I got into the net around 92 or so - and found Wally's site - just after it moved from the Well - and got some sense of perspective on the breadth of her body or work, so to speak. Somewhere in there, too, she was on Leno (I think) and did Sex Kills - which seemed like an odd choice for mainstream TV - but that's Joni!! In fact, the initial impetus that got me into the net to start with was a friend telling me about OLGA - that I HAD to do... back before www, when it was all ftp and such. Had an Apple II and a 1600 baud modem... slower than sin, but it got you to the music. Just subscribed to the list a short while ago - have been reading the digest occasionally. Read the whole thing tonight. Good talk. Looking forward to more. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel F. Carey home:(814) 745-2956| My candle burns at both ends; Redbank High School work:(814) 275-2424| It will not last the night; 910 Broad St. | But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends - New Bethlehem, PA 16242 | It gives a lovely light. mailto:redbank@clarion-net.com | -- Edna St. Vincent Millay "The Macintosh may only have 10% of the market, but it is clearly the top 10%." Douglas Adams, 1996 WWDC. Fans of high school wrestling! Get all the news on District IX wrestling at: http://members.tripod.com/~DC707 and link to the PA Wrestling Page, etc. WARNING: The Surgeon General has determined that whatever you have in mind is bad for you ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 21:33:08 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: joni and her tunings Siresorrow wrote: >perhaps a more important question than who inspired whom with the alternative tunings is who did more with the alternative tunings and i know we all will agree on that issue. the post earlier on the chinese cafe was so nice. it made it clear to me what power joni had on the guitar and the word combined to make not just music, but jazzy music that reaches deep down inside...> along this some line, (*beautiful* post btw) and speaking of earlier posts, as randy remarked if you are interested in alternate tunings you really *must* check out Hawaiian slack key guitar style... I have lived out here in the islands (Guam) roughly half of my life and have heard some of the best slack key guitar there is live many times as I have many island musician friends form Hawaii. most of them will tell you that the grandaddy of slack key is a fellow named Gabby Pahinui (featured here: http://www.guitarplayer.com/archive/lessons/slackkey.htm if your really want to hear someone 'doing more with tunings', go here: http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=609650923/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/album.html/ArtistID=PAHINUI*CYRIL/DDCN=SD-8022+38010+2 and give a listen to the three instrumental selections done by Gabby's son, Cyril... just beautiful!!! pat NP: Cowgirl In The Sand - N. Young http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:54:32 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: The Magdalene Laundries, my take Stephen wrote: >"20/20" did a piece on The Magdalene Laundries earlier this year (they didn't >use Joni's song and it was a shame, because after viewing this piece, you >could feel how Joni truly captured the entire historical experience in her >words and music). Their report gave the impression (and they interviewed >women who had been sent to the Sisters) that young women didn't have any >rights or freedoms and could be sent against their will for no reason at all >(other than the fact that "those in charge" disapproved of them). That episode of 20/20 screened in NZ recently, and since hearing the song, I made a point of watching. It was incredible seeing the emotions of the two women they took back through the old (abandoned) buildings. One of them couldn't even bring herself to get within 20 feet, she was so upset by the whole thing. It kind of added to the meaning of the song. Helen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:57:40 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: joni and her tunings >Pat Henry wrote: > >> Mr. Crosby himself states that he met Joni in *1967* for the first time > http://www.jonimitchell.com/jonihome.html#IV ) and I can personally verify >that she had a rather large setlist of original songs, all written in open >tunings quite early in 1966 and, I would venture that lister Cul Heath, who >has known Joni longer than any of us, to my knowledge, could probably date >her usage of tunings back to '65, two years before she met David. >> >> ie: Kakki, it just ain't so!!! *S* Kakki wrote: >I knew that, but even with all the evidence, it was impossible to convince >my musician friend who idolizes Croz! I am more inclined to believe that >Joni influenced him rather than that he showed her the way. She has had a >tremendous influence on so many. Crosby's desire to experiment with >alternate tunings in the music is one of the reasons he parted ways with the >Byrds in the late 60s. Good thing he stuck to his own vision and musical >inclination - the result shortly thereafter was the fantastic first CSN >album. I happened to see a copy of Rolling Stone today, with an article on guitar players, and who they were "inspired" by. Joni had a brief appearance (it wasn't my copy, so I couldn't bring it home) but she mentioned that she was frustrated by standard tunings and Eric Anderson had showed her banjo tunings, which she then adapted for the guitar, which a few people were starting to do at that time (it didn't say exactly when). Sorry I can't remember more, but I'll try and get hold of the magazine and transribe the whole thing. Helen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 02:05:50 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni one-liners (Hejira) I was inspired to try this by Gina's Hejira one-liners, because I realized that I'd pick such different ones. Here are mine (song titles unnecessary, eh?): I tried to run away myself, to run away and wrestle with my ego And I slept on the strange pillows of my wanderlust Why should I expect that old guy to give to me true? We got high on travel/and we got drunk on alcohol And on love, the strongest poison and medicine of all (OK, I agree with Gina on that one) Each so deep and superficial between the forceps and the stone A woman I knew just drowned herself The well was deep and muddy I looked at the morning after being up all night I looked at my haggard face in the bathroom light You lay down your sneakin' round the town, honey, and I'll lay down the highway Westbound and rolling taking refuge in the roads. - --David NP: Moby, _Play_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 23:35:25 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Challenge Difference between Refuge of the Roads and Come In From The Cold - does Joni play electric guitar on Refuge and acoustic guitar on Come In... Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 00:19:26 -0600 From: evian Subject: People who like Joni I accidently deleted the digest after I copied this, so I think Bob might have said: > What about TI, Brett? It's recent, it's brilliant, and you can > even throw in the Grammy mention... > > Well, I for one would probably not have discovered Joni's brilliance through TI. I don't know why, but this one took forever and a day to grow on me. It was just too... heavy maybe? Not that I don't love it now, but it really depressed the hell out of me at first, and I spent the first month or so just listening to How do you Stop and the title track over and over. For indoctrination purposes, I suggest Blue and C&S as well as NRH. Once we hook 'em with those, then we can bring out the HOSL and DJRD! Evian np: Twitch -- Ministry p.s. Brett, sorry I missed you in Calgary, but my fuel pump decided to die in Lacombe, the armpit of Alberta, and I had to spend a glorious night there, and ended up leaving a whole ton of cash at the garage, hotel, and liquor store. Anyway, the trip got shortened considerably! However, off for Edmonton again tomorrow for the weekend... whoo hooo! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 23:39:27 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: joni and her tunings Helen wrote: >...guitar players, and who they were "inspired" by. Joni... mentioned that she was frustrated by standard tunings and Eric Anderson had showed her banjo tunings, which she then adapted for the guitar...> thanks helen. this makes sense as Eric was one of the people she knew well back then and, (I think) unlike ukelele, tenor guitar and some other 'tuned' instruments, alternate tunings is part and parcel of banjo playing. pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #341 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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