From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #340 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, August 5 1999 Volume 04 : Number 340 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joan Armatrading, freedom bringer NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] NJC Re: Joan Armatrading Concert NJC [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordan] People who like Joni [Joseph Palis ] Seth - Cactus Tree and Gallery ["Catherine McKay" ] re: challenge ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: People who like Joni [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] Re: Joan Armatrading (NJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: People who like Joni ["Seth Garrison" ] Coyote ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: People who like Joni [Ginamu@aol.com] Jonatha Live 8/9 in L.A. and Internet (NJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] The Boom Boom Tenth World [Siresorrow@aol.com] RE: People who like Joni ["Brett Code" ] RE: People who like Joni [Don Rowe ] New Orleans Fonk (NJC) [michael paz ] Re: The Boom Boom Tenth World [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Coyote [Heather Galli ] Fwd: People who like Joni [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: The Boom Boom Tenth World [Ginamu@aol.com] RE: People who like Joni [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] RE: People who like Joni [Don Rowe ] magdalene laundries [Kate ] RE: People who like Joni [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: magdalene laundries [Don Rowe ] Re: People who like Joni [TreyCozy@aol.com] first post - a question [Anne Rickaby ] Re: Fwd: People who like Joni [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] Great Record/Awful Record (NJC) [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.c] Re: Fwd: People who like Joni ["Reuben Bell3" ] Re: first post - a question [SMEBD@aol.com] RE: People who like Joni ["Brett Code" ] Re: first post - a question [Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com] Jackson on the radio (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Joni one-liners [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Fwd: People who like Joni [Scott and Jody ] Re: People who like Joni ["Kakki" ] People Who Like Joni [Scott and Jody ] The Magdalene Laundries, my take (NJC) ["John Low" ] Re: Fwd: People who like Joni ["Mark or Travis" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 04:28:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: Joan Armatrading, freedom bringer NJC mark wrote about i love it when you call me names: >Isn't it the first song on 'The Key'? > >I can't wait to see you again >I know you're gonna slap my face >You beat me up and beat me again >And over and over and over > >I love it when you call me names >I love it when you call me names > >Big woman and a short short man >And he loves it when she beats his brains out >...... > >Sort of an atypical Armatrading song, eh? > >Mark in Seattle > > > that's right!!! the key: what a great, great album. oh god, what memories!!! suddenly, i'm 23 again. the first democratic president in years and years has been elected in argentina. the gay discos come out of the underground. we all come out of the closet AT ONCE. hundreds of queens invading every tv show. we're in the movies, we're marching in june, in the worst frozen rain storm in decades [Gay Pride day falls in Mid-Winter here]. we're raising cain on talk shows. i go dancing every blessed night! and my favorite get-ya-going music is joan armatrading singing love it when you call me names. the song is so kinky and tongue-in-cheek at the same time. and, oh, how hard i try to rip joan off her opening guitar riff. last week i cried so bitterly over my lost youth and beauty. how quickly they came and went. i was listening to a cd recording of a performance of tristan und isolde i attended at carnegie hall years ago. right after the last note, you can hear my voice shout the first "bravo". i know it's me simply because i was the first one to shout! no sooner did i hear my bravo the other day than i burst into tears, mourning for that beautiful winter in new york, for all my lovers in manhattan, in queens, in jersey, wherever. only a few years ago and already a source of melancholy. my vanity scared me, but i couldn't help sitting down and crying because i'll never be beautiful and young again, because winter is almost over and spring is a foreign land to me. i once was young, daring and handsome. men and women loved me and wanted my love in return. and when i chose to, i loved back, and when i couldn't be bothered, i just moved on. we all pay for our cruelty in the end, i guess. the golden dive, the fatted flake. wally\k ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:08:24 +0800 (CST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: marianne faithfull NJC Haven't heard the songs there, but I suggest that people listen to her other great album: STRANGE WEATHER On Tue, 3 Aug 1999 Bern44105@aol.com wrote: > Another excellent Faithfull album is called: A Child's Adventure, a 1983 > Island Record's release. Anyone share my enthusiasm for that one? > Bern > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:07:27 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: NJC Re: Joan Armatrading Concert NJC Gina asks in reference to "(I Love It) When You Call Me Names": <> fwiw, I had mentioned this song about a week ago as one of my two favorites of Joan's, the other being "Show Some Emotion"...Although I never experienced the joy of dancing to it ala Wally K., I always liked it nonetheless... Bob NP: Elvin Bishop, "Crawling King Snake" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:23:31 +0800 (CST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: People who like Joni There was an interesting story I read a week ago in this List. Someone mentioned about meeting a Joni fan and that fan happens to be warm and gracious. I had that experince last night when browsing through mid-price CDs. I saw someone who was clutching Joni's FTR and because I meddle so much on people's choice of purchases, I told him that he might want BLUE or HEJIRA instead. He told he already owned BLUE. We talked for close to one hour while we were balancing our respective CDs. He is so warm, very cordial and friendly and quite intelligent in that unassuming kind of way. He gave me his card so that we can discuss more, but I told him to join the List instead. If he is now here, welcome Bobby! Joseph ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 12:48:54 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Seth - Cactus Tree and Gallery Seth, you said: >These are just two Jonithings that have been running through my mind~ > The song "Cactus Tree," my favorite from _Songs to a Seagull_ is >about >a >woman who somewhat lures all these men with her charms, but can't >give any >one of them all of her because of her fear of the loss of freedom. >Is >this >song about Joni? Yes, I believe it is about Joni. >It might sound stupid, and it might be completely obvious >that it's about her. I just don't know what others think. It doesn't sound stupid at all. I think that's why we all love Joni so much. She could be talking about herself, about a friend or a lover, about a relative or a guy who drives a taxi, but she always talks to us and you can interpret her stuff in so many ways. > Also, "The Gallery": Assuming it's literal, who is the painter >in this >song? I'm aware that it could be figurative, but again, just >inquiring to >see what you think. peace, seth Jeez, i hate to say it, but I think she's talking about Cohen again. Cohen, Shmohen - always talking about Cohen! :) (I see it (see it?) as a gallery of the mind, or poetry, rather than actual paintings.) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 12:51:39 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: re: challenge Janet, you wrote: >In 25 words or less, prove that "Refuge of the Roads" and "Come In >from >the Cold" are not the same song. OK, I'll bite... Different titles. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:21:37 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: People who like Joni Joseph meddles: <> Well Joseph, you certainly gave this person some good advice regarding joining the list; HOWEVER, I personally would be fearful of recommending Blue or Hejira over FTR to someone without knowing what they already had...If someone didn't have a lot or didn't know a lot of Joni, Blue & Hejira might be difficult to get into - they're not easy albums to digest, after all. On the other hand, FTR is a lot prettier, easier on the ear, and a lot warmer. Plus it features a greater variety of Joni's musical colors, piano, guitar, orchestra, etc. whereas there is more of a "sameness", with Hejira anyway. (Not to take anything away from Hejira, it's my favorite Joni but that's based on the fact that I had already digested Blue, C&S, Hissing, and MOA when I heard it.) Anyway, I'm not trying to be overly critical - your point is well taken, Joni fans are a very warm & open bunch and while it's great to communicate with a mess of 'em here, it's equally wonderful to find a fellow Joni-phile in a record store or concert or anywhere and share the love & respect... Maybe our next fundraiser could be hats which feature a neon sign blinking "Joni Fan" on & off. Or maybe Kakki could lead clinics in "Joni-vangelism: Recognizing and communicating with fellow Joni-fans (and converting the unconverted)", she seems to meet them wherever she goes. Kinda like a "Joni Appleseed"...:~) Bob NP: Stevie Wonder, "Tuesday Heartbreak" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:51:44 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joan Armatrading (NJC) Re: "I Love it when You Call Me Names" Mark in Seattle wrote : <> Yes Mark, that was the first song from "The Key". It is because of that song that I bought the album back in the early 80's. The entire album was/is great, but "I love it when you call me names" is still my favorite song of hers. For those of you who don't own any Joan Armatrading, I suggest getting her "Classics" cd which has most of her hits. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:16:00 CDT From: "Seth Garrison" Subject: Re: People who like Joni > Blue & Hejira might be > difficult to get into - they're not easy albums to digest, > after all. On the other hand, FTR is a lot prettier, easier on > the ear, and a lot warmer. Plus it features a greater variety > of Joni's musical colors, piano, guitar, orchestra, etc. I disagree. I think Blue is the most accessible album Joni has ever made, with a possible exception of Ladies of the Canyon. If I were to recommend a Joni album to anyone who had heard very little of Joni and didn't own any other albums, I would probably suggest Blue to them. I would also instruct them to listen to it thoroughly before giving up on it. Anything Joni does takes a while to grow on me, even though I know I'll love it eventually. For the Roses took a longer time to grow on me than many of the others. But then again, this is merely my opinion. peace, seth NP: Pucinni's Turandot, Act II _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 14:29:25 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Coyote Anyone wonder why Coyote is "too far from the Bay of Fundy, from Appaloosas and eagles and tides?" The Bay of Fundy is in Nova Scotia. What is a coyote/cowboy doing there? Appaloosas to me suggest a western theme. Eagles could be anywhere. Tides, only by the ocean. But the Bay of Fundy? That's Nova Scotia. Is Coyote really some b'y from down east who went west to be a cowboy? Can anyone enlighten me? cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:33:51 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: People who like Joni In a message dated 8/5/99 9:27:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com writes: > (Not > to take anything away from Hejira, it's my favorite Joni but > that's based on the fact that I had already digested Blue, C&S, > Hissing, and MOA when I heard it.) I think it's ok to let people fall into Joni any way that happens naturally. I guess I say that because the first Joni *I* heard was Hejira (in the year of its release) and I instantly loved it, without having, as Bob said, "digested" anything else of hers previously. I do recall going back and getting everything else within a few month's time. Though I don't recall the order exactly, I think it was something like this (and I think it happened haphazardly simply because of what was available at the record stores at any given time I went looking for Joni albums I didn't have: Blue Court and Spark Clouds STAS Ladies Of The Canyon For The Roses The Hissing Of Summer Lawns And of course, I bought Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, Mingus and Shadows and Light after that. I skipped buying Wild Things Run Fast, after one listen at someone's house (interestingly, she was not a Joni fan, WTRF was her first Joni and she loved it!) and that's when Joni lost me until Night Ride home was released. Now I have everything on CD and I'm learning to appreciate the merits of my least favorite albums, though I'll admit to still having difficulty with WTRF and Chalkmark. DED I actually received on LP as a gift during the time that I strayed, and I was disappointed with it, but now I like it a lot. It has taken me about 20 years to put it all together but I don't think I've sacrificed any enjoyment or understanding of her work because I didn't buy a particular album first or bought them in any special order. If one is serious about Joni, I do think it's important to eventually have all of her albums to truly appreciate her progression. If I were *asked* to recommend a first Joni, I guess I would agree that FTR is a good recommendation, though it's difficult to second guess what is the "right" first Joni album for any particularly individual, especially one you don't know at all. Not to take away from the recommendations that have been made, just my own personal viewpoint. Just my two cents. Take care, Gina NP: Fisherman's Blues - Waterboys ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:39:34 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Jonatha Live 8/9 in L.A. and Internet (NJC) From Jonatha's mailing list: Jonatha will be performing on radio station 103.1 FM (Los Angeles) at 3:00pm Pac. time on Monday, August 9th. For those of you not in the LA area, 103.1 broadcasts live on the internet. Their website address is www.channel1031.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:45:06 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: The Boom Boom Tenth World i was just listening to The Tenth World and had forgotten about the drums that run through that song and i would have to say that i could fathom a boom boom pachyderm that was not phallic in design. so that would be different than what i said last month with the offensive list of phallics. and this would serve as a humbling retraction. ss. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:12:00 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: People who like Joni When TTT came out, I bought 10 copies and gave 8 of them away (still don't know why I kept 2 for myself). Of the 8, 6 owned no JM music. Of the 6, 5 have subsequently said, in turns, how "amazing", "wonderful", "insightful", "talented", "comforting", "accessible", etc. that cd is and have asked me for recommendations on what to buy next. What I learned by that is the same thing I experienced with NRH - people want "recent" or think they do - it's a cultural thing. Give them recent, let them discover real beauty, then, they'll go back in time looking for the rest. So, my first recommendations to people are always TTT or NRH, quickly followed by an inane statement like: "If you want to know my personal favourite - which might not be yours - I'd go with Hejira, then FTR, Blue, or LOTC. If you want her biggest hits, they're on C & S." I've had that conversation countless times over the past few years. I wonder whether any of those people have been converted. I have never recommended either Hits or Misses or MOA or S & L - maybe I should. Aside from the fact that it may be your personal favourite and that it is truly brilliant, would anyone recommend DJRD as someone's first JM cd? Brett, feeling like a proselytizer (could I be the Priest? I wish) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:42:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: People who like Joni - --- Brett Code asks: would anyone recommend DJRD as someone's first JM cd? You bet! I have many times, though I must admit that all the people I've turned on to Joni using DJRD as bait have been classical musicians. Not to make sweeping generalizations about classical players (I'm one myself), but these folks all had real difficulty taking any kind of "popular music" seriously. But once exposed to the more symphonic intricacies of 'Paprika Plains', almost all of them perked up their ears, and many of them went on to buy the entire catalog. Don Rowe _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 12:29:28 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: New Orleans Fonk (NJC) Joseph wrote: " Harry Connick, Jr.'s BLUE LIGHT RED LIGHT album is not exactly a hit, but this was followed by SHE which is awful music that critics lambasted and was loathed by many Connick fans (including me). I guess I am not yet ready to listen to him do what the Neville Brothers do best -- New Orleans-type r&b." Hi Joseph- Harry has been playing that type of music for ages. He was weaned on James Booker and James Black as well as fess all the Neville incarnations. About a year before he moved to NYC and his career took off, he was playing RAP/Hip Hop type stuff. His father (the DA of New Orleans) influenced him in the Sinatra crooner type vein. Check out the Funky Meters and Gallactic for REAL New Orleans type fonk. BW Michael (rah rahing New Orleans from Texas) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:57:35 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: The Boom Boom Tenth World ss wrote: i was just listening to The Tenth World and had forgotten about the drums that run through that song and i would have to say that i could fathom a boom boom pachyderm that was not phallic in design. so that would be different than what i said last month with the offensive list of phallics. and this would serve as a humbling retraction. Just from one human to another, I always, always, ALWAYS gain so much respect for a person when they come forth with a humble spirit to retract something, that they now view with more enlightenment. Penny ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:44:43 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Coyote >Anyone wonder why Coyote is "too far from the Bay of Fundy, from Appaloosas >and eagles and tides?" The Bay of Fundy is in Nova Scotia. Actually the Bay of Fundy is in New Brunswick. We camped and bicycled there. It *IS* beautiful and I can see why Joni would reference such a place! The Hopewell beach is where some of the quickest, largest tides in the world are located. When the tide goes out you can see what remains of the little islands known as the Hopewell flower pots. I can send a picture to anyone who is interested. New Brunswick is a pretty desolate province and I did see horses while I was there. You could be correct about someone from the east going west. I hope that was somewhat enlightening :-) Any Cannucks care to chip in here? Heather What is a >coyote/cowboy doing there? Appaloosas to me suggest a western theme. >Eagles could be anywhere. Tides, only by the ocean. But the Bay of Fundy? >That's Nova Scotia. > >Is Coyote really some b'y from down east who went west to be a cowboy? > >Can anyone enlighten me? > >cateri@hotmail.com > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:12:15 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Fwd: People who like Joni - --part1_73dd1e7d.24db1fef_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --part1_73dd1e7d.24db1fef_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Ginamu@aol.com From: Ginamu@aol.com Full-name: Ginamu Message-ID: <74a7ed61.24dafacf@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:33:51 EDT Subject: Re: People who like Joni To: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.compglass@tasyo.kssp.upd.edu.ph, Joni@smoe.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 24 In a message dated 8/5/99 9:27:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com writes: > (Not > to take anything away from Hejira, it's my favorite Joni but > that's based on the fact that I had already digested Blue, C&S, > Hissing, and MOA when I heard it.) I think it's ok to let people fall into Joni any way that happens naturally. I guess I say that because the first Joni *I* heard was Hejira (in the year of its release) and I instantly loved it, without having, as Bob said, "digested" anything else of hers previously. I do recall going back and getting everything else within a few month's time. Though I don't recall the order exactly, I think it was something like this (and I think it happened haphazardly simply because of what was available at the record stores at any given time I went looking for Joni albums I didn't have: Blue Court and Spark Clouds STAS Ladies Of The Canyon For The Roses The Hissing Of Summer Lawns And of course, I bought Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, Mingus and Shadows and Light after that. I skipped buying Wild Things Run Fast, after one listen at someone's house (interestingly, she was not a Joni fan, WTRF was her first Joni and she loved it!) and that's when Joni lost me until Night Ride home was released. Now I have everything on CD and I'm learning to appreciate the merits of my least favorite albums, though I'll admit to still having difficulty with WTRF and Chalkmark. DED I actually received on LP as a gift during the time that I strayed, and I was disappointed with it, but now I like it a lot. It has taken me about 20 years to put it all together but I don't think I've sacrificed any enjoyment or understanding of her work because I didn't buy a particular album first or bought them in any special order. If one is serious about Joni, I do think it's important to eventually have all of her albums to truly appreciate her progression. If I were *asked* to recommend a first Joni, I guess I would agree that FTR is a good recommendation, though it's difficult to second guess what is the "right" first Joni album for any particularly individual, especially one you don't know at all. Not to take away from the recommendations that have been made, just my own personal viewpoint. Just my two cents. Take care, Gina NP: Fisherman's Blues - Waterboys - --part1_73dd1e7d.24db1fef_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:29:07 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: The Boom Boom Tenth World In a message dated 8/5/99 12:00:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zapuppy2@webtv.net writes: > i was just listening to The Tenth World and had forgotten about the > drums that run through that song and i would have to say that i could > fathom a boom boom pachyderm that was not phallic in design. so that > would be different than what i said last month with the offensive list > of phallics. and this would serve as a humbling retraction. > > > > Just from one human to another, I always, always, ALWAYS gain so much > respect for a person when they come forth with a humble spirit to > retract something, that they now view with more enlightenment. > > Penny I felt exactly the same way as Penny when I read SS's retraction. Thanks, SS and Penny for your nice resulting comment. Take care, Gina (feeling most rejuvenated of late!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:11:44 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: RE: People who like Joni Brett said about Joni-vangelism: <> What about TI, Brett? It's recent, it's brilliant, and you can even throw in the Grammy mention... Bob NP: Thompson Twins, "Who Can Stop The Rain" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:40:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: People who like Joni - --- Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com asks: > > What about TI, Brett? It's recent, it's > brilliant, and you can > even throw in the Grammy mention... > Yeah, but let's be honest. TI is dark, and in places VERY dark, which can easily be misconstrued as "depressing." That's the reason I usually suggest it as a later purchase ... Don Rowe _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 11:49:27 -0600 From: Kate Subject: magdalene laundries forgive--i have peanut butter toast in my right hand-- for another angle on the m. laundries, see the movie 'princess cariboo' with phoebe cates as a girl who had been incarcerated in a convent kate of the north ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:00:18 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: RE: People who like Joni Bob wrote in reply to Brett: What about TI, Brett? It's recent, it's brilliant, and you can       even throw in the Grammy mention... I know I wouldn't recommend TI as a first Joni album. I can only go on my reaction to it, and don't have time to flesh out my thoughts here, as I'm packing to leave tonight on vacation. Even with being a long time Joni fan, and TI now being one of my faves, TI took me over two weeks before I could listen to it through in one sitting. It was just too powerful for me. Overwhelming is not an understatement. Those songs haunted me until I found enough inner peace to be able to listen to it in comfort. I don't know that many new fans would like to first experience an artist, with a similarly intense reaction as mine was. So I would have to agree with Brett's choices. Penny ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:09:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: magdalene laundries - --- Kate wrote: > for another angle on the m. laundries, see the movie > 'princess cariboo' > with phoebe cates as a girl who had been > incarcerated in a convent > Or "Pretty Baby", with Brooke Shields as a girl who has been incarcerated in a bordello! ;-) Don Rowe _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:22:19 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: People who like Joni In a message dated 08/05/1999 5:16:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pglass@tasyo.kssp.upd.edu.ph writes: << I saw someone who was clutching Joni's FTR and because I meddle so much on people's choice of purchases, I told him that he might want BLUE or HEJIRA instead. >> INSTEAD?? INSTEAD?? I think we all know here on the list that BLUE and HEJIRA are both highly inferior to FOR THE ROSES!! Notice how you said he was "CLUTCHING Joni's FTR" -- well, of course he was clutching it. LOL Trey (laughing at the thought of another FTR/Hejira debate...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:09:07 -0400 From: Anne Rickaby Subject: first post - a question Hi everyone. I (FINALLY) subscribed to the list today - although I've been a Joni fan since 1968. I'm wondering if there's any way to get video of Joni's early performances - especially the Dick Cavett appearance & the Johnny Cash appearance (I actually remember anticipating that night, and not being disappointed of course!) -- would that we had VCRs back then! Also, does anyone have the 'extra' verse of "Conversation?" It's in the original LOTC songbook, which I (foolishly) lent to a friend years ago only to have the friend and songbook disappear. THANKS! Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:00:05 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Fwd: People who like Joni Gina said: <> While that's true Gina, It is significant if the purchase is so off-putting that one decides not to pursue the artist further. In the original case listed though, I don't think Hejira, FTR, or Blue are that difficult really. I had a friend of mine though who bought Mingus as her first choice (she didn't consult me! :~) ) after I'd made her some tapes with some Joni on them. She hated Mingus, in fact she told me took it back to the store and sold it used. Now I don't know but I'll bet she hasn't bought any Joni since. We've been talking about REM's "UP", which isn't dreadful but it's certainly not the kind of record that would make you want to run out and pick up REM's catalogue. Likewise, a while back when you were interested in checking out XTC, I was careful to recommend a release that was easier to digest knowing that if you had gotten one of their more inaccessible discs, you would stop there and potentially miss out on a lot of great music. And so it is with Joni, Neil Young, Tom Waits, any real artist who isn't afraid to take chances and challenge their audiences. The downside is that anyone who introduces themselves to an artist with an inaccesible work might be afraid to delve further... I experienced a similar thing with Laura Nyro - I bought "Eli & The 13th Confession" and totally disliked it, so I'm just now getting to "Christmas & The Beads of Sweat" & "N.Y. Tendaberry" (thanks to this list) and love them both immensely, so much so that I'm thinking up going back to "Eli" and giving it another chance. I feel like maybe I wasn't ready for it then or heard it "out of order"... On another note, the subject line puts me in the mind of the Barbra Streisand hit: "People, people who like Joni, are the luckiest people in the world..." Bob NP: XTC, "I Need Protection" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:06:52 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Great Record/Awful Record (NJC) Michael posted what Joseph had said about rocky follow-ups: <> And it made me think of what is probably the best example of "Great record followed by awful record": "Frampton Comes Alive" followed by "I'm In You" The latter shipped platinum but most ended up returned to A&M I'm sure. I always say "Show me a used record bin & I'll you a copy of "I'm In You" :~) Bob, who bought the former, but borrowed the latter to tape and boy was he glad he did! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 16:13:02 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: Fwd: People who like Joni >>> 08/05/99 04:00PM >>> We've been talking about REM's "UP", which isn't dreadful but it's certainly not the kind of record that would make you want to run out and pick up REM's catalogue.>>> I must have missed this thread. I love "UP"! I had been turned off of REM for years until this record came up. "Why Not Smile" and "At Your Most Beautiful" (I have a feeling I mistitled both of these tracks) are amazing, heartbreaking and wonderful. I like this record. I reccomend it to all of you. :() Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:31:05 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: first post - a question In a message dated 8/5/1999 4:16:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, arickaby@allaire.com writes: << 'm wondering if there's any way to get video of Joni's early performances - especially the Dick Cavett appearance & the Johnny Cash appearance (I actually remember anticipating that night, and not being disappointed of course!) -- would that we had VCRs back then! >> Welcome to the list Anne. You should check out JMDL Tape Trading Information for the video trees. Joni's appearance on Dick Cavett appears on one of the tapes. I got copies of the video trees earlier this year and have enjoyed them very much. THANKS ASHARA. I don't know where you can get a copy of the Johnny Cash Show, but if you live in NYC or ever visit, you can go to THE MUSEUM OF BROADCASTING and watch Joni's appearances on this show (unfortunately they can't make copies). Hope this information is helpful and that I didn't speak out of turns about the Video Trees (I apologize if I did). Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:39:35 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: People who like Joni You're right, Trey. I'm wondering what is taking Kakki so long to chime in with her only-as-Kakki-can-say-it pro-FTR wisdom :-) Brett INSTEAD?? INSTEAD?? I think we all know here on the list that BLUE and HEJIRA are both highly inferior to FOR THE ROSES!! Notice how you said he was "CLUTCHING Joni's FTR" -- well, of course he was clutching it. LOL Trey (laughing at the thought of another FTR/Hejira debate...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:07:21 -0400 From: Bob.Muller/GV/FD/FluorCorp@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: first post - a question Anne says: <> Welcome Anne! Hope to hear a lot from you, with over 30 years as a fan you should have a lot of memories and opinions to share... <> The Cavett stuff is on the Video Trees, The Johnny Cash video I don't know about but I do have the audio to that... Bob NP: Stevie Wonder, "All in Love is Fair" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:57:39 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Jackson on the radio (NJC) I know it's a very slim Joni connection, but Jackson Browne is scheduled to do a rare live interview and play some songs on Roz and Howard Larman's KPFK (LA, 90.7) show on Sunday, August 15th. Probably on about 8:20 and running approx one hour. Still not set in stone, but thought I'd give locals a heads-up. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:40:58 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Joni one-liners Hi ya'll! Ever since I commented on how I didn't think TI was a good first album for a new Joni fan, the powerfulness of TI hasn't left my mind. I was thinking that that album, in particular for me, contains at least one line in each song that is deeply thought provoking and requiring of much core level honesty to confront the significance of implications that can (and did for me) develop in pondering or meditation of said lyrics. So in a nutshell, I'll give a per song one-liner to express why TI is the Joni album that hit me like a ton of bricks. Sunny Sunday She dodges the light like Blanche DuBois Sex Kills And the weak suffering what they must How Do You Stop But what about your heart? Turbulent Indigo Raise 'em up like sheep Last Chance Lost We talk in terms of sacrifice and compromise The Magdalene Laundries These bloodless brides of Jesus (I can't stick to only one one-liner in this song) They leech the light out of the room Not To Blame At the miseries made of love Borderline Smug in your jaded expertise Yvette In English What a wary little stray! The Sire of Sorrows (Job's Sad Song) These pompous physicians. Oh what carelessness! Do some of the rest of you want to submit your "Joni album that rocked my world" song by song one-liners? Blessings All Penny ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 17:41:03 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: Fwd: People who like Joni Bob wrote: > And so it is with Joni, Neil Young, Tom Waits, any real artist > who isn't afraid to take chances and challenge their audiences. > The downside is that anyone who introduces themselves to an > artist with an inaccesible work might be afraid to delve > further... > I have to agree and also add that timing plays a big part as well. I tried introducing my sister and brother - in law to Joni. I KNOW what they like and I KNOW them. I KNOW they would love Joni. They were going on a road trip so I wanted to make a mix of Joni, but didn't have time so I gave them Hejira and TTT. They were more in the"Goin down the road, feelin' bad" mode.Which is cool. They didn't really like 'Hejira'. Perhaps if we had been sitting out on their porch with the stars above, they would have listened more closely. Maybe I should have introduced them to FTR. I'm straying a bit but, I was wondering how many of you have met Joni fans aside from the jmdl? Joseph Palis wrote: > I had that experince last night when browsing through mid-price CDs. I saw > someone who was clutching Joni's FTR > I've been listening to Joni for almost thirty years and have only met one Joni fan not on this list. My husband Scott and I were introduced to his best friend Mike's fiancee at a bar in Chicago. All I knew about Kim was that she was a speech pathologist and a Met's fan. While Scott and Mike were at the bar, I tried to strike up a conversation with Kim. I noticed that there was a t.v. in the corner and much to my surprise, the Mets were playing the Cubs. Out of nowhwere, I blurted out,"Your ball club is in the blue t.v. screen light"! I didn't intend to quote Joni - it just came out. She looked at me and said," Ah, so you like Joni Mitchell?" We've been great friends ever since. I didn't have to worry about striking a conversation after that. We were the last to leave the bar. jody ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:24:21 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: People who like Joni Brett wrote: > You're right, Trey. I'm wondering what is taking Kakki so long to chime in > with her only-as-Kakki-can-say-it pro-FTR wisdom :-) I'm just glad to hear that Joseph's helpful meddle led to a potential friendship and not an incident! ;-) Kakki NP: Joni - Hunter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 17:58:58 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: People Who Like Joni Bob wrote: > And so it is with Joni, Neil Young, Tom Waits, any real artist > who isn't afraid to take chances and challenge their audiences. > The downside is that anyone who introduces themselves to an > artist with an inaccesible work might be afraid to delve > further... > I have to agree and also add that timing plays a big part as well. I tried introducing my sister and brother - in law to Joni. I KNOW what they like and I KNOW them. I KNOW they would love Joni. They were going on a road trip so I wanted to make a mix of Joni, but didn't have time so I gave them Hejira and TTT. They were more in the"Goin down the road, feelin' bad" mode.Which is cool. They didn't really like 'Hejira'. Perhaps if we had been sitting out on their porch with the stars above, they would have listened more closely. Maybe I should have introduced them to FTR. I'm straying a bit but, I was wondering how many of you have met Joni fans aside from the jmdl? Joseph Palis wrote: > I had that experince last night when browsing through mid-price CDs. I saw > someone who was clutching Joni's FTR > I've been listening to Joni for almost thirty years and have only met one Joni fan not on this list. My husband Scott and I were introduced to his best friend Mike's fiancee at a bar in Chicago. All I knew about Kim was that she was a speech pathologist and a Met's fan. While Scott and Mike were at the bar, I tried to strike up a conversation with Kim. I noticed that there was a t.v. in the corner and much to my surprise, the Mets were playing the Cubs. Out of nowhwere, I blurted out,"Your ball club is in the blue t.v. screen light"! I didn't intend to quote Joni - it just came out. She looked at me and said," Ah, so you like Joni Mitchell?" We've been great friends ever since. I didn't have to worry about striking a conversation after that. We were the last to leave the bar. jody ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 15:59:46 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: The Magdalene Laundries, my take (NJC) Catherine wrote: >This whole scene is very similar to what we Canadians did to aboriginal >people even up to perhaps 20-30 years ago. The same experience has >probably >happened all over the world at various times with different power groups >taking it out on the weaker ones. And Colin replied: >The exact same things happened in Australia with the Aust. Aboriginals. And I add: These comments are so true! Reconciliation between the indigenous and non-indigenous peoples of Australia is probably the most important and urgent of all the issues facing our country as we enter the next millenium. Things are not helped, however, by a Prime Minister who, like Dylan's Mr. Jones, doesn't seem to get what's happening. John. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:36:37 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: first post - a question/Cash and Conversation Welcome to the list, Anne. > Also, does anyone have the 'extra' verse of "Conversation?" It's in the > original LOTC songbook, which I (foolishly) lent to a friend years ago only > to have the friend and songbook disappear. I don't have the songbook but heard the extended version from one of the early Joni "bootlegs" of her live appearance at Club 47 in Boston. This last extra verse possibly sheds some extra meanings on this song. We had a thread on the list a while ago speculating on the nature of her relationship with the man in the song. It's hard for me to make out all the lyrics clearly and welcome any edits, but here is what I've transcribed: He's acted down all evenin' Maybe it's over now Maybe she's finally leavin' I'd like to show her now But friends are friends forever So hard to change their role Laugh with him, cry together A friend feels so old But you keep your feelings deep inside You talk of them and think of pride Now is the wrong time But maybe if a dozen days are warm and right you'll hear him say "I've wanted you baby for such a long time" In this version Joni also brings him "grapes and cheeses" rather than "apples and cheeses". Kakki NP: Joni - A Case of You ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 00:07:00 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The Magdalene Laundries, my take (NJC) Australia has changed greatly since I left in 75. At that time, people of colour were not allowed to live there, unless they were aborignies of course. However, I think there is little that can be done about the treatment of Aboriginals. i hardly think the whites will give back the land. the same goes for the aboriginals of the USA. All the talk in the world is just that talk. Nothing will be given or given up. On a much less serious note there was also no colour tv! Tho i think it did come in that year. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:06:07 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Scary Movies (NJC) I know this thread is dead, but I just read today's Ft. Myers News Press and on the front page is a large article on "The Blair Witch Project". I haven't seen the movie yet, and don't even know if it's playing here yet. I know a lot of you were talking about the movie, but today's paper was all about one of the co-writers/co-directors Dan Myrick. It seems that Dan grew up here and went to the same high school as I did. (well 14 years later). I will definitely go see the movie now. It's so nice to know that "small town boy makes good". We now have someone to be proud of besides Deon Sanders (yuck)! Just wanted to share. Jimmy ps. Has anyone seen the video of Garth Brooks as Chris Gaines? GREAT STUFF!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:56:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: first post - a question SMEBD@AOL.COM writes: > I don't know where you can get a copy of the Johnny > Cash Show, but if you live in NYC or ever visit, you can go to THE MUSEUM OF > BROADCASTING and watch Joni's appearances on this show (unfortunately they > can't make copies). All right, New Yorkers - can you give us 'outsiders' some info on this heretofor unheard of place? Thanks, Brian nw: A&E Investigative Reports === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 18:08:35 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Fwd: People who like Joni > > I experienced a similar thing with Laura Nyro - I bought "Eli & > The 13th Confession" and totally disliked it, so I'm just now > getting to "Christmas & The Beads of Sweat" & "N.Y. Tendaberry" > (thanks to this list) and love them both immensely, so much so > that I'm thinking up going back to "Eli" and giving it another > chance. I feel like maybe I wasn't ready for it then or heard > it "out of order"... Go back, Bob, go back! I was listening to 'Eli' in the car on the way home tonight. It's a wonderful record and I believe it pre-dates 'Xmas' & 'N Y Tendaberry'. My favorite is still 'Xmas'. 'Tendaberry' is the one I have the most trouble getting into. Everyone's made some good points in this thread. I think C&S is Joni's most accessible work. I got MofA not too long after buying C&S and it is a wonderful introduction to the earlier albums. I actually prefer some of the MofA versions to the originals (it's that helium voice thang but we won't go into that again). To complete this whole synchronicity thang the other side of the tape 'Eli' is on has Joan Armamatrading's eponymous album on it. And we go round and round and round in the Joni-synchronicity game...... Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:52:26 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni one-liners Penny wrote: > I was thinking that that album, in particular for me, contains at least one > line in each song that is deeply thought provoking and requiring of much > core level honesty to confront the significance of implications that can > (and did for me) develop in pondering or meditation of said lyrics. Aw, gee, I *really* was not going to write about FTR today but this has elicited the Pavlovian response. Hmm, let's see - Banquet - "Some get the gravy and some get the gristle, some get the marrow bone and some get nothing thought there's plenty to share" Cold Blue Steel - "Concrete concentration camps bashing in veins for peace" Barangrill - "None of the crazy you get from too much choice" Lesson in Survival - "Maybe it's paranoia, maybe it's sensitivity, your friends protect you, scrutinize me" Let the Wind Carry Me - "Mama thinks she spoilt me, Papa knows somehow he set me free" For The Roses - "In some office sits a poet and he trembles as he sings and he asks some guy to circulate his soul around" and "Just when you're getting a taste for worship they start bringing out the hammers and the boards and the nails" See You Sometime - "We start off so kind and end so heartlessly" Electricity - "We once loved together and we floodlit that time - input - output - electricity" You Turn Me On I'm a Radio - "I know you don't like weak women you get bored so quick, and you don't like strong women 'cause they're hip to your tricks" Blonde in the Bleachers - "She tapes her regrets to the microphone stand, she says you can't hold the hand of a rock n' roll man very long, or count on your plans with a rock n' roll man very long, compete with the fans for your rock n' roll man for very long" Woman of Heart and Mind - "You criticize and you flatter, you imitate the best and the rest you memorize, you know the times you impress me most are the times when you don't try, when you don't even try" Judgement of the Moon and Stars - "Condemned to wires and hammers, strike every chord that you feel, that broken trees and elephant ivories conceal" Kakki NP: Joni - My Old Man ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #340 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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