From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #333 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, July 31 1999 Volume 04 : Number 333 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Top ten (one tenth Joni content) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Joan Armatrading - (NJC) Chosen to write tribute song for Mandela [Ginam] Re: Scary Movies (NJC) [jan gyn ] RE: Joan Armatrading (NJC) ["patrick leader" ] Re: Hejira Samba! [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Scary movies (NJC) [PJT ] Re: Scary movies (NJC) [catman ] Re: Hejira Samba! [Randy Remote ] Re: Top ten (one tenth Joni content) [TreyCozy@aol.com] Joni's back catalogue [Jason Long ] Guitars NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Bry-Bry CD (Radio Plastic Jennifer) [luvart@snet.net] Fwd: Joan Armatrading (NJC) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Scary movies (NJC) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Rolling Stoni [Randy Remote ] hegira: Merriam-Webster's Word of the Day [Les Irvin ] Re: Woodstock & the 1960s [Randy Remote ] Re: ....movies (NJC) [Bolvangar@aol.com] top 100-joni content [john noble ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:03:55 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Top ten (one tenth Joni content) Despite lists being invidious, they're also fun, so here's mine... 1. Joni (not just 'cos this is her list - she is really the best) 2.Christine Collister 3.Jane Siberry 4.Laura Nyro 5. Kate Bush 6. Sandy Denny 7. Shawn Colvin 8.Aretha Franklin 9.Joan Armatrading 10.Annabel Lamb (OK I'm biased 'cos she's a friend - she's still a woman of heart and mind, and you can tell it from listening to her songs) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:06:23 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Joan Armatrading - (NJC) Chosen to write tribute song for Mandela Since there are quite a few Joan Amatrading fans on the list, I thought I'd share this you from her homepage. Gina From the Herald (Glasgow) July 19, 1999 Singer Joan Armatrading is to compose a tribute song to mark the retirement of South African president Nelson Mandela. She has been a long-time supporter of Mr. Mandela and has met him on many occasions. She plans to release the song as a single shortly before Christmas. She will be joining Poet Laureate Andrew Motion at an event in the British Library today at which signatures will be added to a national book of tributes which will eventually be taken to South Africa and presented to Mr. Mandela. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:18:33 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Scary Movies (NJC) At 07:03 PM 7/30/99 -0400, you wrote: >The scariest film I've ever seen is the original version of The Vanishing. >The ending is the most shocking and uncompromising thing you could imagine. (snip) >Azeem, in film buff mode in sweaty London, listening to Kate Bush's >underrated masterpiece "The Dreaming" I concur. After seeing 'The Vanishing' I felt sickened by the inhumanity. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:37:11 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Joan Armatrading (NJC) hi, folks, just a few more words about armatrading. azeem wrote: >Joan Armatrading has been around since the early 70s. She may indeed be >"virtually unknown" in North America, she's really not, among those of us of a certain age. her 1976 self-titled pretty much shook my circle of music-loving friends at the time (and still shakes me to the bone). love and affection is about as close to perfection as writing and performance get. the whole album is magnificent. >One of the difficulties she had must have been categorisation: >being a black British Woman in the 70s was to be pretty much unique on the music scene, not to mention, she was pretty well known to be a lesbian at a very early point in her career, and became typed as a 'womyn's artist. and she did make music that spoke deeply to woman friends of mine. my first modern dance teacher, my mentor, was a married woman with two sons when she met her life mate, and at the time she told her to leave; that she was going to try to make her marriage work; she choreographed a piece to 'i really must be going', an armatrading song about the same situation. the song still tears me to shreds. since we've been talking about tracy chapman, (and that first album is masterful) it's worth pointing out that the joan armatrading resemblance was very much pointed out at the time. forget the new joni references, how do you think joan felt? patrick who read >Azeem, <>buff <> sweaty London and got, oh well, all sweaty np - siberry - the speckless sky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:48:11 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Hejira Samba! I wrote: Herbie Hancock hosted an occasionally airing show on Showtime in the late 80's (?) called Showtime Coast to Coast. This jam session was from the first season's airings. Klein and David Sanborn were also there with the above mentioned. I know I taped it from the TV, and would assume that's the source on the tape tree as well.   >> Stephen replied: Thanks for the information and thanks for sharing the tape--I've really enjoyed watching this clip. Clarification.....I was not the source for the video tree. But I'm assuming the tape tree source taped it from the same airing I recorded mine. For those who haven't seen this, let me add that Joni was wearing a black, mid-calf length dress, probably about a dozen belts ;-), (her best 'look' IMO) was chomp, chomp, chomping on gum the whole time, and it appears that she hadn't had any "touch up" work done on her face yet. The marks near her mouth in this taping were no longer present at the time of the Jazz Fest several years later! Penny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:14:18 -0700 (PDT) From: PJT Subject: Re: Scary movies (NJC) Oh I saw it too, it was bizarre, anyone know the name? Pam - --- catman wrote: > I can't remember what it was called but we saw a > brilliant film where some > people end up killing a string of dinner guests. > > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 01:43:15 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Scary movies (NJC) I thought it was rather clever. it starts out with a group of people whose hearts and minds are in the right place-some may call them liberals. Anyway a guest turns up and he is a right wing arsehole who gets nasty and attacks one of the hosts. As a rsult he gets killed, by accident. This sets off a bizarre twist when they decide to invite such right wing arseholes to dinner and then deliberately bump them off. Of course these kind hearted liberals end up being just as nasty as those they are against and think the world is better off without. The point was good i thought. I have caught myself feeling murderous to people I see as dangerous to a healthy society and certainly see this trait in others. like animal activists prepared to kill people, anit - -nazi leaguie preapared to kill the right wingers, xtians prepared to kill gays and abortionists, separatists prepared to abort male children. At least that is what i thought the film was warning us against or showing us-that our righteousness can boil over into the very same coldness we fear. PJT wrote: > Oh I saw it too, it was bizarre, anyone know the > name? Pam > > --- catman wrote: > > I can't remember what it was called but we saw a > > brilliant film where some > > people end up killing a string of dinner guests. > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:07:28 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Hejira Samba! Penny wrote: > I wrote: > > Herbie Hancock hosted an occasionally airing show on Showtime in the > late 80's (?) called Showtime Coast to Coast. This jam session was from > the first season's airings. Klein and David Sanborn were also there with > the above mentioned. I know I taped it from the TV, and would assume > that's the source on the tape tree as well. >> > > Stephen replied: > > Thanks for the information and thanks for sharing the tape--I've really > enjoyed watching this clip. > > Clarification.....I was not the source for the video tree. But I'm > assuming the tape tree source taped it from the same airing I recorded > mine. > > For those who haven't seen this, let me add that Joni was wearing a > black, mid-calf length dress, probably about a dozen belts ;-), (her > best 'look' IMO) was chomp, chomp, chomping on gum the whole time, and > it appears that she hadn't had any "touch up" work done on her face yet. > The marks near her mouth in this taping were no longer present at the > time of the Jazz Fest several years later! > > Penny I have a copy of this from Lifetime network's "Limited Engagement", it is 9m long, contains Joni talking about "Furry", an excerpt of "Furry", and an excerpt of "Hejira", with the personnel previously mentioned. I'm guessing Lifetime bought rebroadcast rights from Showtime, but I wonder if the original segment was longer. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:52:19 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: Top ten (one tenth Joni content) Here it goes... 1. JONI (she is the queen..) 2. Aretha Franklin 3. Ricky Lee Jones 4. Joan Armatrading 5. Pheobe Snow 6. Shawn Colvin 7. Carly Simon 8. Tina Turner 9. Ani DiFranco 10. Jonatha Brooke (hey.. it's me TREY.. how could I resist??) Did no one else include Ani DiFranco in their top ten?? I was gone for two weeks -- please tell me I just missed it and that it was an oversight. =) I know SOMEONE must have included Ani.... A little worried, Trey np - "You and Me of the 10,000 Wars" - indigo gals (after I blew the dust off the case) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:00:25 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Joni's back catalogue Seth wrote: > And... I have a problem. At the release of Taming the Tiger, I went >immediately to the record store and purchased it. I made the jump from Blue >to TTT. As I was listening, I thought, "Man, this sucks. It doesn't sound >like Joni at all. Where is her guitar?" Of course, I realize this is a >fairly stupid thought. I mean, I can't expect a very pioneering woman of >music to stay the same after 25+ years. Still, I was very disappointed. > I was wondering if I should ease myself into this more subtly. Should I >go chronologically? I don't want to miss out on 20 years of possibly great >Joni music. Does anybody have any advice on this subject? Did any of you >have the same troubles? I understand that many of you grew up with Joni's >changing, but that's my disadvantage. I was thrown into this world with >around 20 Joni Mitchell albums to choose from! What's a boy to do?! I would almost recommend buying all of Joni's past albums chronologically, although this would mean you wouldn't discover _Night Ride Home_ and _Turbulent Indigo_ until late in the game, which is a bit of a shame since I personally feel that they are two of Joni's finest works. I had this same problem myself when I first discovered Joni's music. I'd always known about her from a lot of different books and album guides I had read, plus I would see her name mentioned from time to time in articles on other artists I liked, but my knowledge of her music only extended as far as being familiar with some of the more well-known songs, and not always her own versions at that. The more I read, though, the more intrigued I became, especially since the impression I got was that Joni was an artist who always stuck to her own vision, without worrying about whether something would sell or not, an attitude I really respect. I finally resolved to check out an album of hers, but had no idea where to start. Thankfully, this problem was solved for me - -- I came across a used LP of _For the Roses_ not long after and picked it up. I didn't really have any idea of what to expect when I first played it, but I was already in love with it before the first side was over. I played the album quite a bit over the next several days, eventually making a tape of it for my walkman, then set out to get more of Joni's work. Again, I really had no idea of what albums to get next, but this problem was solved for me. None of the music stores near me were very well-stocked when it came to Joni's work, so I chose from the limited options I had and bought _Hejira_ next. I hadn't really heard an album like it before and although it didn't immediately 'click' with me, I liked "Amelia" and a couple of other songs enough to go back and pick up _Court and Spark_ a few days later. After that, I bought what I could, wherever I could find it. I checked through my Columbia House catalogues to see what they carried, looked in nearby stores whenever visiting relatives, and also got my local music stores to order a few titles for me. By the time _Turbulent Indigo_ was released, I had a lot of the back catalogue, and after buying it, continued to acquire the rest (although I will admit not buying _Misses_ when it was released; there was too much other music I wanted to hear for me to spend the money to buy a compilation of songs I already owned). While I did love most of Joni's albums right away, I do wish I had discovered them chronologically. I think there is a definite progression between her albums, and I do know there are certain ones I didn't really fully appreciate until hearing their direct predecessors. One last thing: Don't give up on _Taming the Tiger_ just yet. I remember feeling a slight tinge of disappointment when I first heard it, but since then, some of the songs have really grown on me. "Love Puts on a New Face" and "Face Lift" are both particularly good; give them a second chance. Cheers, Jase NP: Joni, _TTT_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:26:24 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Guitars NJC Hello Gang, Now that I am playing tons of guitar (again finally) and of course it is all Joni I need some advice from the guitar players here. I have a bunch of guitars already..Alverez (2 kinds both acoustic) Ovation (12 and 6 string) and a Kay. I want a guitar in the $700.00 range that has a cut away, sounds excellent, and plays like butter. I would prefer it to have a pick up already built into it as well and it has to be acoustic. I also want it to be easy to play ( Low action). Any suggestions please send me an email. I know we kinda went thru this but i am going more for specifics of what I mentioned above. Thanks! Catgirl with a blister on her index finger from barring all those chords on Amelia and Coyotee. Thanks Sue McNamara for the EXCELLENT guide! However, I want a new gutar like the ones Joni used to play like maybe a rickenbacker....whooo-hoooo!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:01:15 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Bry-Bry CD (Radio Plastic Jennifer) > >I hope Bry comes again to Topsfield. I haven't any confirmation as yet. I >only >know that he is is in the general area (Kendall Cafe, Cambridge) on Aug 26. >We should hope. I'll be there. > This IS good news, Chuck! Heather (keeping her fingers crossed) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:35:19 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Joan Armatrading (NJC) - --part1_914367d1.24d3d707_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --part1_914367d1.24d3d707_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: CaTGirl627@aol.com From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Full-name: CaTGirl627 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:34:59 EDT Subject: Re: Joan Armatrading (NJC) To: AzeemAK@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 In a message dated 7/30/1999 7:08:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AzeemAK@aol.com writes: << One of the difficulties she had must have been categorisation: being a black British Woman in the 70s was to be pretty much unique on the music scene, especially as she wasn't a Soul singer in the normally accepted sense of the term (I'd add that she does sing with great soul and passion, but I'm sure you all appreciate the distinction). I've probably said this before on the list, but the album to start with if you want to discover Joan A is the self-titled set from 1976 (actually her third album), which scientists have discovered to be verifiably perfect! >> Absolutely! Her album from 76 is truly a classic. I even have it on Cd which is saying alot! I love Joan. She wrote great lyrics and has such style when she sings. I put her in my top ten for a reason. Catgirl - --part1_914367d1.24d3d707_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:51:16 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Scary movies (NJC) In a message dated 7/30/1999 5:12:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << I can't remember what it was called but we saw a brilliant film where some people end up killing a string of dinner guests. >> Now that was a bizaar movie. My all time favorite movie that is also scarey is called DEAD AGAIN. It was so good and scarey. It was like an Alfread Hitchcock movie. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:18:58 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Rolling Stoni In the Aug 15 issue of Rolling Stone (Angela Jolie cover) random notes section there is a paragraph about the New York tribute show, a quote by Duncan Sheik, and a photo of a blissfully overwhelmed Joni clutching a large bouquet of flowers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:24:28 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: hegira: Merriam-Webster's Word of the Day Joniphiles - I thought you may be interested in the word of the day from Merriam-Webster. Les The Word of the Day for July 31 is: hegira \hih-JYE-ruh or HEH-juh-ruh\ (noun) : a journey especially when undertaken to escape from a dangerous or undesirable situation : exodus Example sentence: To escape the lowering clouds of impending war, Grandmother's family embarked on a hegira that would carry them far from their native soil. Did you know? "A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country." By the year A.D. 622, the prophet Muhammad had learned that painful lesson. In that year, he was forced to flee his native city, Mecca, to escape persecution from those who rejected his message. Muhammad, the founder of Islam, and a number of his followers migrated to Medina, where they were guaranteed protection by local clans. This event, which traditionally marks the beginning of the Islamic era, is known in Arabic as the "hijrah," -- literally, "flight." That Arabic term passed into Medieval Latin (where it was modified to "hegira"), and from there it eventually made its way into English. By the 18th century, English speakers were using "hegira" for other journeys, too, especially arduous ones. - ---------------- Brought to you by Merriam-Webster Inc. http://www.m-w.com - ---------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:59:03 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Woodstock & the 1960s Seth Garrison wrote: > Being a teenager, I can say this: If you think about it, somehow the > "cold and selfish values associated with the economic rationalism of recent > times" actually creates a sense of community among the ones of us who rebel > against the norm. I mean, at school I have a group of very close friends, > friends who all disagree with the MTV and commercialized society. It's natural that there will be a backlash to that stuff, and good to hear about it!! > > > And... I have a problem. At the release of Taming the Tiger, I went > immediately to the record store and purchased it. I made the jump from Blue > to TTT. As I was listening, I thought, "Man, this sucks. It doesn't sound > like Joni at all. Where is her guitar?" Joni plays a VG-8 throughout TTT, which is an electric guitar hooked up to a synthesizer-type device. She is doing pioneer work with this instrument, but it is quite a different beast than an acoustic. > > I was wondering if I should ease myself into this more subtly. Should I > go chronologically? I don't want to miss out on 20 years of possibly great > Joni music. Does anybody have any advice on this subject? > I was thrown into this world with > around 20 Joni Mitchell albums to choose from! What's a boy to do?! > Seth Starting with the info that you like Blue (considered by many her best), which is her 4th album, stylistically her 3rd and 5th are pretty close, with Ladies of the Canyon being more folksy, and For The Roses a tad more sophisticated. Going back to her first two, they are even more folksy, with single guitar backup and pure soprano vocals, the songs having an intimate quality. Other guitar oriented albums include Hejira with it's sparse but spacey electric band, long cerebral compositions and simply incredible lyrics, and Don Juan's Reckless Daughter (her 9th and 10th), which generally finds Joni playing multi tracked acoustic backed by the formidable basslines of Jaco Pastorius. Court and Spark and Hissing of Summer Lawns, her 6th and 7th albums, began her explorations with jazz musicians, C&S being more pop/rock, and containing her big hit "Help Me". Miles of Aisles is a live album and a great document of her music up to that point. After DJRD came Mingus, which is the music of jazz bassist Charles Mingus, with Joni's lyrics, and is pretty much full on jazz. Shadows and Light is a jazz-rock live album featuring her middle period bandmates, Jaco, Pat Methany, and Joni usually on electric guitar. Wild Things Run Fast is more of a rock album, alot of people on this list slag it but I think it's a fine work. It's also the end of her piano recordings, for the most part. Dog Eat Dog has recently been either praised or knocked for it's synth heavy edge. Chalk Mark In a Rain Storm, and especially Night Ride Home are seen by many as a return to form for our lady of the alternate tunings, with a more basic instrumentation, and more guitar. Turbulent Indigo, I would say is somewhat similar stylistically to TTT, with TI being the more organic. Then there was her album of standards with orchestra, just gorgeous---wait--that's the future..... The other recordings I would recommend for you to check out are the BBC tapes she made with James Taylor before she recorded Blue. They are on the tape trees as well as numerous bootlegs. They perform live, and the unadorned beauty of the music is allowed to shine through. They should release this stuff commercially like they did with Dylan's "Albert Hall" concert. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 02:15:45 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Re: ....movies (NJC) Colin wrote: <> Now we've all agreed that this is a bizarre film but nobody seems to have remembered the title! It's called "The Last Supper." - --David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:58:37 -0700 From: john noble Subject: top 100-joni content Hi, I'm Tucker, I'm a digester, haven't checked my mail in a long time, not keeping up, but! I just watched the top 100 and I find it so irritating that they insist on doing the whole Big Yellow Taxi thing. For young kids coming up, and you KNOW that's the only song these kids are ever going to hear! Why do these people that are putting this all together insist on using that one song to introduce people to Joni? If she was watching this you know she was gnashing her teeth! The thing with this whole Rock and Roll thing is that there's Rock and Roll and then there's Singers/Songwriters. Two totally different catagories. Joni Mitchell, to me, is the first, or maybe second, after Laura Nyro, to explore the whole S/S catagorie with ink on a pen, pin? Underneath the skin! So, anyway, That's my beef! She need's to be recognized as the first and foremost of this genre! No number 5! Like I'm telling you guys something you don't already know! Wish I could be at the JoniFest NP: Wendy Waldman Hasn't anyone ever heard of her?? ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #333 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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