From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #332 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, July 30 1999 Volume 04 : Number 332 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Sales disappointments, "My Secret Place" [Jason Long ] Re: Scary movies (NJC) [TreyCozy@aol.com] Woodstock & the 1960s ["John Low" ] Apologies to the Joni only crew!! ["John Low" ] Another little Joni moment ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Sales disappointments, "My Secret Place" [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Chalk Mark Questions [catman ] Re: Sales disappointments, NJC [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Woodstock & the 1960s NJC [RMuRocks@aol.com] UK meet [catman ] misc. (njc) [Janene Otten ] Re: Sales disappointments, NJC ["Reuben Bell3" ] Women of Rock (SJC) [Leslie Mixon ] Hejira Samba! [RMuRocks@aol.com] DED and other stuff (how to get it) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Hejira Samba! [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Woodstock & the 1960s ["Seth Garrison" ] RE: Hejira Samba! [Jenaya Dawe ] Re: Hejira Samba! [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Woodstock & the 1960s [RMuRocks@aol.com] RE: Scary movies (NJC) [Janene Otten ] Re: Woodstock & the 1960s ["Reuben Bell3" ] Re: Hejira Samba! [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Hejira Samba! [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Woodstock & the 1960s (NJC) [Heather Galli ] Re: Woodstock & the 1960s [Don Rowe ] Re: Women of Rock [Heather Galli ] Re: Women of Rock ["Reuben Bell3" ] Re: Women of Rock [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: DED and other stuff (how to get it) [Brian Gross ] Wife 1.0 [NJC] [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Women of Rock [Don Rowe ] Re: Women of Rock [Heather Galli ] RE: Chalk Mark Questions ["Wally Kairuz" ] Another Jazz Cover ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Re: Women of Rock [Mark Domyancich ] RE: Scary movies (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Women of Rock (now NJC) [Don Rowe ] Let's Return To Those Simpler Days (NJC) [jan gyn ] Re: Wife 1.0 [NJC] [catman ] Re: Scary Movies (NJC) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Joan Armatrading (NJC) [AzeemAK@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 04:53:38 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Sales disappointments, "My Secret Place" Don Rowe wrote: >Well since I started it, I was kind of hoping that >folks would pick up on the insanity of a major label >thinking that an album with a #13 single and 2+ >million unit sales is "disappointing" -- be it Whitney >or anybody, really. I mean, can you imagine how >ecstatic we'd have been if TTT put up those kinds of >numbers? I can see what you're saying here, but at the same time, I can understand from a label's standpoint why an album that's sold over two million copies could be a disappointment. Many albums sell that many copies with relatively little promotion and are deemed great successes as a result; others may require relentless promotion and a great deal of money spent to achieve the same commercial standing, and therefore aren't looked upon as being as great of a success. This is why an album such as Liz Phair's _Exile in Guyville_, which was recorded for only $3000 and released on the then-tiny Matador Records was deemed a huge success for selling 500,000 copies with almost no MTV or radio play, while something like the upcoming, extremely-hyped Nine Inch Nails album will likely have to sell at least three or four times that to be considered an equal success. Also, while I'm not that familiar with Whitney Houston's career, it could be that her previous works have sold substantially more than her current album, and with this one only selling two million copies, her label may be thinking that she's lost a great number of her listeners. As for Joni, I too wish she could pull in those kind of sales figures. It really surprises me that her three '90s releases haven't been more successful saleswise; to me, _Night Ride Home_ seems like one of the most immediately accessible releases of her career, and perhaps more so than any of her albums since _Court and Spark_. Also puzzling to me is the fact that more wasn't done by Reprise to capitalize on Joni's Grammy wins for _Turbulent Indigo_. It would have been a great time to try to reach some new listeners, and when I look at the (well-deserved) boost Bob Dylan received for his awards for _Time Out Of Mind_, it makes me wish that Joni would have benefitted equally. Penny wrote: >Any thoughts on what Joni might be referring to in "My Secret Place"? I >somehow doubt it's a teepee on a sandy beach like in the video for the >song. Is she talking about a geographic location such as NY, LA, >Colorado, the mountains or the Sunshine Coast, perhaps? Accompaniment >in activities that are usually enjoyed most in solitude, for Joni they >could range from painting to traveling. Is she pointing to an emotional >state or frame of mind she only allows certain people to visit with her? >Or if you want to get silly, I suppose since the song is sung with, IMO, >her most sensually breathy recorded voice and Joni's got such a great >sense of humor, maybe she's referring to, a less than approved of by >Myrtle, "spot". "Oh, Oh, My, My!" You don't think Joni would ever be >so obvious as to name a song "My Secret Spot", now do you? ;-D Could >each of the verses be making reference to different types of "secret >places" we only go with a select few? I always thought that Joni was referring to an emotional state, where one allows themself to open up completely to another, letting down all defenses - -- which isn't always as easy to do as one might think. A lot of people have a hard time sharing their innermost feelings and secrets and it's only with a special few people that they are able to be completely free, while with everyone else, they remain somewhat guarded. It seems like Joni may be one of these people, as she says "I don't go there with anyone, but you're a special case" and "I don't talk much to anyone." I always thought this song was about opening up to a person that you care for and trust greatly -- and it doesn't necessarily have to be a lover either, it can simply be a close friend or someone you feel a strong bond with -- the kind of bond that can survive through the usually inevitable rough spells, and that "no amount of hurt and anger can deface." While listening to "My Secret Place," I'm somewhat reminded of the bridge from another song I like, Liz Phair's "Blood Keeper," where she sings, "Love unbuttons parts for everyone, come and take them off right now. What do you need them for, it's just the two of us, and no one's asking you why." For me, although Liz's lyric is nowhere near as eloquent as Joni's, I get a similar impression from it, that a strong bond between two people can strip away their even stronger defenses -- you allow yourself to become a little more vulnerable for the sake of greater closeness. In a way, this emotional state really is a refuge -- to be able to let one's guard down completely in order to share with another person, feeling that nothing needs to be hidden. Still, though, I've always seen the references to "muggers after dark" and "pigeons in this park" as Joni questioning the consequences of opening up so completely to another, maybe expecting that something bad should happen -- perhaps partly out of fear of losing that refuge and perhaps also because one can become all too used to keeping everything within themselves, so that even when they're ready to, sharing with another person can be a scary prospect. No one wants to set themselves up for a potential fall, after all. For the record, "My Secret Place" is by far my favorite song on _Chalk Mark_. I really like the way Joni and Peter Gabriel's voices play off of one another, and the song itself makes for a great opener -- it gives off a really warm and inviting vibe to the listener, and it feels really intimate. Jase NP: Michael Penn, _Resigned_ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 05:24:21 EDT From: TreyCozy@aol.com Subject: Re: Scary movies (NJC) Hey folks.. I may be late on this thread, but I just had to jump in. I just this moment walked in the door from seeing "The Blair Witch Project". Well, given all the hype that one must endure (there is simply NO hiding from it), I still had a fun experience. There were a couple of moments where I had chills run through me. No joke. Truly creepy. The woods just freak me out! Even the thought of one particular moment just gives me the shivers. Anyhoo, I'm usually tickled by thrasher movies. All those masks, and big knives covered in fake blood, and cats flying through open windows (curtains always blowing) causing everyone to scream -- so cheap -- but a somewhat recent movie that scared me is called "A Shallow Grave". It's a thriller type of movie, but it gave me a good scare in that creepy-not-particularly-gorey kind of way. Get me? Anyone else catch this little gem of a movie? I believe it was one of Ewan McGregor's first films. If I recall correctly, it was out before his big hit "Trainspotting". Ok.. just wanted to share that. Of course maybe it was scary because I watched it at a cabin in the woods in the middle of nowhere... who can say? =) Trey np- nada ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 02:40:09 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: Woodstock & the 1960s Some thoughts on the Woodstock discussion and the legacy of the 1960s. One of the characteristics of that time I think was a sense among young people that we were part of a community that transcended national boundaries. There was a shared belief in the possibilities of a better world and rock music became the principal medium through which this sense of youthful community was expressed. It was a flawed vision, of course, and we all know how it dissipated under a barrage of commercialism and excess. Rock music, too, fragmented into a chaos of genres that, despite offering a rich creative diversity, destroyed that earlier sense of community and now seems to isolate and divide young people instead of bringing them together. But, underneath it all, I don’t think the kids of today are that much different to those of the 1960s. We were lucky enough to ride into adulthood on a wave of economic prosperity and, despite the threat of Vietnam and nuclear war, had a pretty affluent time of it. Kids today find themselves in a vastly more difficult and hostile economic environment. I am repelled by the cold and selfish values associated with the economic rationalism of recent times. I am sad that the present generation of young people (and that includes my own kids) have been denied the sense of community and vision, no matter how naïve, that was available to mine. I remember reading a comment of Albert Schweitzer’s many years ago in which he said how angry he felt when he heard parents respond to their idealistic children with the remark ‘You’ll soon grow out of that when you get older’! I will always be grateful for that brief experience when the realization of a better world seemed possible. I hope I never lose my idealism no matter how tempered with experience it becomes and I hope that, despite the prevailing world-view of the moment, I shall always encourage my own kids to hold strongly to what they believe deeply to be right. But, I’ve rambled on too long. Please forgive an aging ‘flower child’ now settled into a comfortable, middle class and middle aged existence. If anyone feels inclined to respond, don’t be too hard on me. My petals still bruise easily! John [Hobbit-like in the Mountains.] ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 02:50:33 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: Apologies to the Joni only crew!! Sincere and abject apologies for not putting NJC on my last post re Woodstock. Please, please don't flame me! John. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:27:09 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Another little Joni moment Went on the tube last night to a rehearsal studio in East Putney for a session with singer songwriter Karen Bates and her band. They were rehearsing up one of her songs for a forthcoming all-women acoustic S/S compilation album. On a break, Karen, who in my opinion is 'the business', and her band, which includes Chris Rodell on stand-up, suddenly broke into a wonderful impromtu version of 'Blue Motel Room' . Thought of you lot as I joined in loud on "boom-boom-pachyderm". PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:31:33 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Sales disappointments, "My Secret Place" Jason mentioned << It seems like Joni may be one of these people, as she says "I don't go there with anyone, but you're a special case" and "I don't talk much to anyone." >> That would certainly be true of journalists and the media which have not given her a fair shake over the years but I don't think it applies to the people she knows are her true fans. There are more than a few of here who have had the good fortune to speak with her and can attest that she instantly engages in open, honest, conversation. She trusts us with the love & respect we have for her. But then again, all of us have a certain amount of introversion in a given situation. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:49:13 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Chalk Mark Questions I have assumed, and have not closely studied the lyric, that My Secret Place meant her heart/soul. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:50:18 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Sales disappointments, NJC Jason also comments on record sales: << Also, while I'm not that familiar with Whitney Houston's career, it could be that her previous works have sold substantially more than her current album, and with this one only selling two million copies, her label may be thinking that she's lost a great number of her listeners. >> It reminds me of when Michael Jackson was getting ready to release "Bad" (aptly titled) as a follow-up to the 27 million seller "Thriller". He walked around with 3 dimes in his pocket for good luck to push Bad over the 30 million mark. Didn't happen. "Bad" sold about 8 million copies (don't take that info to the bank) and was considered a flop... Bob Seger once described the follow-up stress condition as "Platinum Fever", he experienced it after he was working on the follow-up to "Night Moves". His follow-up, "Stranger In Town", WAS still a big hit, though. Which begs the thread-inducing question, "What is the WORST follow-up to a hit album that you can think of? I immediately think of the first Boston album; I admit I bought it along with everyone else, it sounded great on the radio and on the turntable, but Sheesh, that next album, which was only 32 minutes long or so, was putrid. Seems the boys just had one good record in 'em... Bob NPIMH: Boston, "Smokin" (Who'da thunk that Joni & Boston have songs with the same title...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:55:13 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Woodstock & the 1960s NJC In a message dated 7/30/99 4:44:34 AM Central Daylight Time, johnlow40@hotmail.com writes: << Please forgive an aging ‘flower child’ now settled into a comfortable, middle class and middle aged existence. If anyone feels inclined to respond, don’t be too hard on me. >> Forgive you for what, John? Your post was eloquent and right on the money! The more things change, the more they stay the same...the things that are valuable now (family, friends, inner peace)are the same things that were valuable 100 years ago, I don't think we can realize that though until we've spent some time chasing after some false pursuits of happiness. Thanks for sharing your wisdom and good vibe. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:57:44 +0100 From: catman Subject: UK meet Okay it seems most perople taht have responded can do the August Bank Holiday. I thinkt he Sat or sun would be best. If you wish to come please reply to this email. thanks colin - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:41:40 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: misc. (njc) Mark in Seattle: did the tea leaves tell you that you are NUTS for torturing yourself by reading the Shining while snowbound in Iowa? =) Sometimes I do those things to myself like when I come home late at night, I walk through the house with ALL of the lights out just to prove that yes, it's scary but there are no boogie men waiting for me just because the lights are out. I want to thank you all for reminding me of Joan Armatrading. I was out the height of pubescence when MTV came on the air and she was one of the artists that American teens would not have been exposed to had it not been for MTV. I remember the college stations playing Joan and I ran out and bought (I love it when you) Call Me Names. I have it on vinyl so I brought it to work (where there is a turntable) so I can transfer it to a dat and then a cd. THANK YOU again for the reminder. If anyone has any info. as to when Joan will be playing in the northeast U.S. or in the U.K. in November, please let me know. Have a great weekend! Janene np: Joni: HOSL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:43:06 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: Sales disappointments, NJC Ok, I'm really digging into the vault (and showing my age) for this one, but how about Martika's (of "Toy Soldiers" fame)? Her second album "Martika's Kitchen" was wretched and I think I'm the only one who bought a copy. Reuben np: Sophie B. Hawkins' "Timbre" >>> 07/30/99 08:50AM >>> Jason also comments on record sales: . Which begs the thread-inducing question, "What is the WORST follow-up to a hit album that you can think of? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:17:16 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Women of Rock (SJC) Looking forward to the Joni segment tonight. After watching the past four nights, I'm surprised there's no mention of Sandy Denny, Koko Taylor, Maria Muldaur or Judy Collins. And why use the term "Rock" when all genres are addressed? Is this to attract the under 30 crowd? Speaking of scary movies, I think both versions of "Cape Fear" are spine tingling. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:58:04 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Hejira Samba! Ok guys I have to ask... I've been listening to a live version of "Hejira" this week, actually it starts as a jazzy version of "Furry Sings the Blues", the recording starts with Joni singing "Pawn shops glitter like gold tooth caps" so I don't have the whole recording, but it segues (or is cut) into this incredible jazzed-up version of Hejira. I mean, this band is jamming! Joni is jazz singing the song and doing jazz vocal trade-offs with another singer, there is wonderful percussion and jazz piano, sizzling sax (I assume that's Shorter), but the whole ensemble is cooking this tune with a Salsa/Samba kind of beat! It is incredible! If you haven't heard it you won't believe it...After the conclusion of the track, one of the musicians yells out "I swear to God, I never had so much fun in my whole life" (or something to that effect)... My question is, what is this an excerpt from? If this whole show exists on recording, can anybody step up and offer to share it with me/others? This version of Hejira is so exciting but it makes me hungry for more. A thousand blessing to whoever can help out with this one! Bob NP: Hejira (live, but not the same version as above) PS: Chadly from Mts., I'm putting the finishing touches on your project and heading to the post office - this Hejira track is on the excess tape from the TTT interview - Enjoy it dude... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:00:35 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: DED and other stuff (how to get it) I don't want to act like a salesperson for them, but CD Now has EVERYTHING. They have stuff that I would have thought out of print ages ago. Check 'em out at CDNow.com or better yet, go to the Joni Mitchell website, jonimitchell.com and enter CDNow through that link - that way Wally will get some of the money to keep his excellent website going. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:47:53 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Joni on UK Arena Just to remind people in the UK that "Later on Joni Mitchell and Co" is being shown at 5.10 pm on Saturday on UK Arena, repeated later the same night. It includes Shawn Colvin and Ricky Lee Jones. Regards Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:51:43 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: Joan Armatrading (NJC) Joan's latest is entitled, What's Inside, and it was released in 1996, maybe late 1995. It's brilliant. Brett ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:23:53 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira Samba! In a message dated 7/30/1999 10:00:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RMuRocks@aol.com writes: << I've been listening to a live version of "Hejira" this week, actually it starts as a jazzy version of "Furry Sings the Blues", the recording starts with Joni singing "Pawn shops glitter like gold tooth caps" so I don't have the whole recording, but it segues (or is cut) into this incredible jazzed-up version of Hejira. >> Bob, I have a really bad copy of the audio of this--there is a video of this on one of the Video Trees (I'm at work and don't have it with me, so I don't know if it is vol. 1 or 2). This cut was taken from a jam session that Joni did with several Jazz musicians including Wayne Shorter, Bobby McFarren, and Herbie Hancock. I don't know how or where the Video people on JMDL got this clip, and I haven't heard any other audio's from this session. That's all I know. Does anyone else know more about this? Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:32:41 CDT From: "Seth Garrison" Subject: Re: Woodstock & the 1960s John: >I am repelled by the cold and selfish values associated with the economic >rationalism of recent times. I am sad that the present generation of young >people (and that includes my own kids) have been denied the sense of >community and vision, no matter how naïve, that was available to mine. Being a teenager, I can say this: If you think about it, somehow the "cold and selfish values associated with the economic rationalism of recent times" actually creates a sense of community among the ones of us who rebel against the norm. I mean, at school I have a group of very close friends, friends who all disagree with the MTV and commercialized society. We have a special bond that is based firmly around our individual personalities. Just a thought. And... I have a problem. At the release of Taming the Tiger, I went immediately to the record store and purchased it. I made the jump from Blue to TTT. As I was listening, I thought, "Man, this sucks. It doesn't sound like Joni at all. Where is her guitar?" Of course, I realize this is a fairly stupid thought. I mean, I can't expect a very pioneering woman of music to stay the same after 25+ years. Still, I was very disappointed. I was wondering if I should ease myself into this more subtly. Should I go chronologically? I don't want to miss out on 20 years of possibly great Joni music. Does anybody have any advice on this subject? Did any of you have the same troubles? I understand that many of you grew up with Joni's changing, but that's my disadvantage. I was thrown into this world with around 20 Joni Mitchell albums to choose from! What's a boy to do?! Advice? Seth _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:35:24 -0700 From: Jenaya Dawe Subject: RE: Hejira Samba! >I have a really bad copy of the audio of this--there is a video of this on >one of the Video Trees (I'm at work and don't have it with me, so I don't >know if it is vol. 1 or 2) I know it's on Vol. 1 because I haven't watched vol. 2 yet!!! Jen... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:37:32 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira Samba! In a message dated 7/30/99 10:28:42 AM Central Daylight Time, SMEBD@aol.com writes: << This cut was taken from a jam session that Joni did with several Jazz musicians including Wayne Shorter, Bobby McFarren, and Herbie Hancock. >> "Jam Session" is right! Thanks for the info Stephen, hopefully there's more to come... Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Take It With Me", another brilliant ballad from a writer who makes writing gorgeous ballads look so easy... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:47:51 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Woodstock & the 1960s Seth shares his problem: << And... I have a problem. At the release of Taming the Tiger, I went immediately to the record store and purchased it. I made the jump from Blue to TTT. As I was listening, I thought, "Man, this sucks. It doesn't sound like Joni at all. Where is her guitar?">> Actually Seth, TTT is almost ALL guitar whereas Blue incorporates lots of dulcimer & piano... << I mean, I can't expect a very pioneering woman of music to stay the same after 25+ years. >> And that's why I love her so... << Should I go chronologically? I don't want to miss out on 20 years of possibly great Joni music. Does anybody have any advice on this subject? >> Possibly? Possibly?! :~) And you hit the nail on the head...to appreciate Joni's art it's much more easy to go chronologically...In my own case I started with C&S and bought the new ones as they came out, then went back later and added all the pre-C&S records. To be able to hear the growths, transitions, and evolutions in their proper order is highly preferable, I would think... Bob NP: Billy Bragg & Wilco, "California Stars" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:50:23 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: RE: Scary movies (NJC) Trey, yes, I saw Shallow Grave. I rented it during one of my particularly morbid weeks back two summers ago. I rented Murder In the First (w/Kevin Bacon) and Shawshank Redemption that week also (obsessed with jail movies that week as well, I guess) I liked Shallow Grave and thought "what a horrible predicament to find one's self in". Glad it was only a movie. I also like sholcky horror flicks. Evil Dead has got to take top honors there. (hee hee) Bye, Janene np: Al Green - "Belle" from Here I Am ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:52:24 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: Woodstock & the 1960s Seth, I would say to start with whatever you want. Joni's stuff is all very different. I started off with Ladies of the Canyon (1971), Wild Things Run Fast (1982) and Chalkmark In A Rainstorm (1988). Vastly different, and I like some better than others, but they're all good. I'd reccomend The Hissing Of Summer Lawns and Hejira, which are two of my personal favorites. Just a thought, Reuben >>> "Seth Garrison" 07/30/99 11:32AM >>> I understand that many of you grew up with Joni's changing, but that's my disadvantage. I was thrown into this world with around 20 Joni Mitchell albums to choose from! What's a boy to do?! Seth>>> _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:27:40 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Hejira Samba! Stephen wrote: This cut was taken from a jam session that Joni did with several Jazz musicians including Wayne Shorter, Bobby McFarren, and Herbie Hancock. I don't know how or where the Video people on JMDL got this clip, and I haven't heard any other audio's from this session. That's all I know. Does anyone else know more about this? Herbie Hancock hosted an occasionally airing show on Showtime in the late 80's (?) called Showtime Coast to Coast. This jam session was from the first season's airings. Klein and David Sanborn were also there with the above mentioned. I know I taped it from the TV, and would assume that's the source on the tape tree as well. Penny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:21:47 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira Samba! In a message dated 7/30/1999 12:27:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zapuppy2@webtv.net writes: << Herbie Hancock hosted an occasionally airing show on Showtime in the late 80's (?) called Showtime Coast to Coast. This jam session was from the first season's airings. Klein and David Sanborn were also there with the above mentioned. I know I taped it from the TV, and would assume that's the source on the tape tree as well. >> Penny, Thanks for the information and thanks for sharing the tape--I've really enjoyed watching this clip. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:22:43 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Woodstock & the 1960s (NJC) John, Thank you for this well thought out post. One comment you made rings so true ..... never loosing your idealism no matter how tempered by experience. It is such a delicate balance to teach your children to hold on to their convictions (what they believe to be right) while they witnessing the ever changing world day to day. I must say that the reward is worth waiting for. My 22 year old daughter keeps remembering things I've said to her while she was growing up. I get comments like "Gee, Mom, you were right." I never really know if I was right but I am happy to know that I didn't mislead her :-) Heather >One of the characteristics of that time I think was a sense among young >people that we were part of a community that transcended national >boundaries. There was a shared belief in the possibilities of a better world >and rock music became the principal medium through which this sense of >youthful community was expressed. > >It was a flawed vision, of course, and we all know how it dissipated under a >barrage of commercialism and excess. Rock music, too, fragmented into a >chaos of genres that, despite offering a rich creative diversity, destroyed >that earlier sense of community and now seems to isolate and divide young >people instead of bringing them together. > >But, underneath it all, I donít think the kids of today are that much >different to those of the 1960s. We were lucky enough to ride into adulthood >on a wave of economic prosperity and, despite the threat of Vietnam and >nuclear war, had a pretty affluent time of it. Kids today find themselves in >a vastly more difficult and hostile economic environment. > >I am repelled by the cold and selfish values associated with the economic >rationalism of recent times. I am sad that the present generation of young >people (and that includes my own kids) have been denied the sense of >community and vision, no matter how naÔve, that was available to mine. > >I remember reading a comment of Albert Schweitzerís many years ago in which >he said how angry he felt when he heard parents respond to their idealistic >children with the remark ëYouíll soon grow out of that when you get olderí! > I will always be grateful for that brief experience when the realization >of a better world seemed possible. I hope I never lose my idealism no matter >how tempered with experience it becomes and I hope that, despite the >prevailing world-view of the moment, I shall always encourage my own kids to >hold strongly to what they believe deeply to be right. > >But, Iíve rambled on too long. Please forgive an aging ëflower childí now >settled into a comfortable, middle class and middle aged existence. If >anyone feels inclined to respond, donít be too hard on me. My petals still >bruise easily! > >John >[Hobbit-like in the Mountains.] > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:24:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Woodstock & the 1960s - --- Seth Garrison wrote: > I was thrown > into this world with > around 20 Joni Mitchell albums to choose from! > What's a boy to do?! > Advice? I would recommend this order. Of course, each joni album takes time to digest -- something I'm still working on 20+ year after discovering her. But I really think the following sequence would be a good one. What I've tried to do is put some albums in a "most accessible" order, taking into account that you have "Blue" ... and though it jumps around in time, I think it will be less jarring than your recent experience with TTT. I think you mentioned that you're failiar with "Clouds", "Song to A Seagull", and "Ladies of the Canyon", so I'll leave them out. I also think you should get familiar with the studio albums before you think about the live ones, "Shadows and Light", "Miles of Aisles" -- or the Hits/Misses compliations. So here goes: 1. For The Roses 2. Court and Spark 3. Hejira 4. Night Ride Home 5. Hissing of Summer Lawns 6. Turbulent Indigo 7. Wild Things Run Fast 8. Chalkmark In A Rainstorm 9. Dog Eat Dog 10. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 11. Mingus _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:36:11 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Women of Rock >Looking forward to the Joni segment tonight. After watching the past >four nights, I'm surprised there's no mention of Sandy Denny, Koko >Taylor, Maria Muldaur or Judy Collins. > >And why use the term "Rock" when all genres are addressed? Is this to >attract the under 30 crowd? I wondered the same, Leslie. I am not into polls so I don't put alot of merit in this VH1 thing. I am watching it, though, because I like the little snippets on all the performers. I was glad to see Laura Nyro in there and I'm also looking forward to seeing Joni tonight. One thing that disappoints me .... I don't see any interviews with Joni commenting on the other performers. For instance, Marianne Faithful, Grace Jones, Carly Simon, Patty Smyth, Debbie Harry all had supporting comments on the other artists. Maybe Joni will have something to say about Billie Holiday tonight. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:45:20 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: Women of Rock I thought about this and I imagine its because Joni doesn't often have anything terribly nice to say about anyone else. She IS kind of critical, and goes by the Cindy Brady epithet :"I just tell it like it is." Heavy lies the head that wears the crown... Reuben >>> Heather Galli 07/30/99 03:36PM One thing that disappoints me .... I don't see any interviews with Joni commenting on the other performers. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:12:11 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Women of Rock In a message dated 7/30/99 1:49:31 PM Central Daylight Time, RPBell3@newchurch.edu writes: << I thought about this and I imagine its because Joni doesn't often have anything terribly nice to say about anyone else. She IS kind of critical, and goes by the Cindy Brady epithet :"I just tell it like it is." >> Reuben you need to listen to her on the BBC show "My Top 12" where she heaps praise on Miles, Stevie Wonder, Edith Piaf, Peter Gabriel, and others worthy of praise. It's been awfully difficult for her to witness some of the women she's obviously influenced go on to the critical success and especially commercial success that SHE rightly deserves. Any of us would be bitter in that situation...she is the greatest, but she IShuman, and in her own words, she talks too loose, too open & free...and pays a high price for it. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:08:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: DED and other stuff (how to get it) - ---Catherine McKay wrote: > > I don't want to act like a salesperson for them, but CD Now has EVERYTHING. > They have stuff that I would have thought out of print ages ago. Check 'em > out at CDNow.com or better yet, go to the Joni Mitchell website, > jonimitchell.com and enter CDNow through that link - that way Wally will get > some of the money to keep his excellent website going. And let's not forget that the JMDL.com site also has links to CD Now that help support the List. And what would our lives be like without this marvelous place? Take care, Brian NP: Fotheringay (Sandy Denny was wonderful) === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:51:32 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Women of Rock Ruben writes: << I thought about this and I imagine its because Joni doesn't often have >anything terribly nice to say about anyone else. She IS kind of critical, >and goes by the Cindy Brady epithet :"I just tell it like it is." >> > Then Bob writes: >Reuben you need to listen to her on the BBC show "My Top 12" where she heaps >praise on Miles, Stevie Wonder, Edith Piaf, Peter Gabriel, and others worthy >of praise. It's been awfully difficult for her to witness some of the women >she's obviously influenced go on to the critical success and especially >commercial success that SHE rightly deserves. Any of us would be bitter in >that situation...she is the greatest, but she IShuman, and in her own words, >she talks too loose, too open & free...and pays a high price for it. > I know this has been mentioned before .... Joni having a difficult time saying anything nice about women performers she has obviously influenced. But,(now listen up Joni) TIMES CHANGE ... you ARE being recognized now! Look at the recent celebration in Central Park for you! Some people are slowly waking up to Joni's remarkable talent. Joni should embrace this change. On yet another note: Someone mentioned earlier about Larry Klein producing Tracy Chapman's work ... did this burn Joni's ass? In a way, did Joni feel that Larry "cheated" on her? Heather np: NPR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:56:22 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Wife 1.0 [NJC] Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 3:39 PM Subject: Wife 1.0 Dear Tech Support: Last year I upgraded Girlfriend 1.0 to Wife 1.0 and noticed that the new program began unexpected child processing that took up a lot of space and valuable resources. No mention of this phenomenon was included in the product brochure. In addition, Wife 1.0 installs itself into all other programs and launches during system initialization where it monitors all other system activity. Applications such as Pokernight 10.3 and Beerbash 2.5 no longer run, crashing the system whenever selected. I can not seem to purge Wife 1.0 from my system. I am thinking about going back to Girlfriend 1.0 but un-install does not work on this program. Can you help me? Jonathan Powell Dear Jonathan Powell - This is a very common problem men complain about but is mostly due to a primary misconception. Many people upgrade from Girlfriend 1.0 to Wife 1.0 with the idea that Wife 1.0 is merely a "UTILITIES & ENTERTAINMENT" program. Wife 1.0 is an OPERATING SYSTEM and designed by its creator to run everything. WARNING DO NOT TRY TO: un-install, delete, or purge the program from the system once installed. Trying to un-install Wife 1.0 can be disastrous. Doing so may destroy your hard and/or floppy drive. Trying to un-install or remove Wife 1.0 will destroy valuable system resources. You can not go back to Girlfriend 1.0 because Wife 1.0 is not designed to do this. Some have tried to install Girlfriend 2.0 or Wife 2.0 but end up with more problems than the original system. Look in your manual under Warnings-Alimony/Child Support. Others have tried to run Girlfriend 1.0 in the background, while Wife 1.0 is running. Eventually Wife 1.0 detects Girlfriend 1.0 and a system conflict occurs, this can lead to a non-recoverable system crash. Some users have tried to download similar products such as Fling and 1NiteStand. Often their systems have become infected with a virus. I recommend you keep Wife 1.0 and just deal with the situation. Having Wife 1.0 installed myself, I might also suggest you read the entire section regarding General Protection Faults (GPFs). You must assume all responsibility for faults and problems that might occur. The best course of action will be to push apologize button then reset button as soon as lock-up occurs. System will run smooth as long as you take the blame for all GPFs. Wife 1.0 is a great program but is very high maintenance. Suggestions for improved operation of Wife 1.0 - -Monthly use utilities such as TLC and FTD - -Frequently use Communicator 5.0 - -Tech Support Marcel Deste ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:09:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Women of Rock > On yet another note: Someone mentioned earlier > about Larry Klein producing > Tracy Chapman's work ... did this burn Joni's ass? Well let me tell you ... it was a nightmare wrapped up in a purgatory and FedExed to Hell! My Lord, if you think Joni's voice has been piercing at times ... you really have no idea! I don't know to this day what the hell I was thinking ... but I know one thing -- never again mi amigo! God, the memory alone has me broken out in a cold sweat. Larry Klein (alias Don Rowe) _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:21:05 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Women of Rock >> On yet another note: Someone mentioned earlier >> about Larry Klein producing >> Tracy Chapman's work ... did this burn Joni's ass? > >Well let me tell you ... it was a nightmare wrapped up >in a purgatory and FedExed to Hell! My Lord, if you >think Joni's voice has been piercing at times ... you >really have no idea! I don't know to this day what >the hell I was thinking ... but I know one thing -- >never again mi amigo! God, the memory alone has me >broken out in a cold sweat. > LOL!!!!!! Don ... you are one funny guy! Inside the cover of FTR ...can you just see that photo of Joni's backside having a red tinge to it!! Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:18:49 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Chalk Mark Questions Dear Penny, As far as I remember, Joni said in an interview that the gypsy had made three predictions about Joni's mother's future: "You'll be married within a month, you'll have a child within a year and you'll die a slow, painful death". Joni said that she chose not to include the third prophecy in the song. Best, WallyK You wrote: Has Joni ever said that the reason she's an only child is because The Bomb was dropped less than two years after she was born? Smiles Penny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:25:24 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Another Jazz Cover I recently heard a Joni cover of I had a King by Joshua Redman from his 1998 release "Timeless Tales". A quick "listen to" can be heard at CdNow. Fleece and Shove - Official logo of Woodstock99 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:25:42 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Women of Rock You're one to talk! Your laugh is enough to make anybody go insane! At 1:09 PM -0700 7/30/99, Larry Klein wrote: >My Lord, if you think Joni's voice has been piercing at times ... you >really have no idea! ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:28:13 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Scary movies (NJC) I saw shallow grave a couple of years ago and i found it kind of boring. but i know it's me, because all my friends had a blast. as to horror movies...well, i must confess i'm a closet slice&dice movie fan. I even used to buy fangoria magazine! but i guess that when you've seen one of these movies, you've seen them all. anyhow, long live jason and his hockey masks!!! wallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:44:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Women of Rock (now NJC) > At 1:09 PM -0700 7/30/99, Larry Klein wrote: > >My Lord, if you think Joni's voice has been > piercing at times ... you > >really have no idea! - --- Mark Domyancich wrote: > You're one to talk! Your laugh is enough to make > anybody go insane! > "Go Insane?" ... hey wait a minute -- Lindsey? Lindsey Buckingham? -- is that you? What are you doing on the jmdl? Larry Klein (alias Don Rowe) _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:08:43 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Let's Return To Those Simpler Days (NJC) >MEMO > >To: All Corporate Staff > >From: Corporate Information Systems > >Corporate has defined a lower cost alternative for Mac and NT conversions that >also addresses the Y2K (Year 2000) issue: The goal is to remove all computers >from the desktop by Jan. 1, 2000. Instead, everyone will be provided with an >Etch-A-Sketch. > >There are many sound reasons for doing this: > >1. No Y2K problems >2. No technical glitches keeping work from being done >3. No more time wasted reading and writing e-mails > >Frequently Asked Questions from the Etch-A-Sketch Help Desk: > >Q: My Etch-A-Sketch has all of these funny little lines all over the screen. >A: Pick it up and shake it. > >Q: How do I turn my Etch-A-Sketch off? >A: Pick it up and shake it. > >Q: What's the shortcut for Undo? >A: Pick it up and shake it. > >Q: How do I create a New Document window? >A: Pick it up and shake it. > >Q: How do I set the background and foreground to the same color? >A: Pick it up and shake it. > >Q: What is the proper procedure for rebooting my Etch-A-Sketch? >A: Pick it up and shake it. > >Q: How do I delete a document on my Etch-A-Sketch? >A: Pick it up and shake it. > >Q: How do I save my Etch-A-Sketch document? >A: Don't shake it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:09:40 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Scary movies (NJC) I can't remember what it was called but we saw a brilliant film where some people end up killing a string of dinner guests. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:13:07 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Wife 1.0 [NJC] What you need is Sexuality Change ver. 1. This should rectify any problems you are having. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:03:51 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Scary Movies (NJC) The scariest film I've ever seen is the original version of The Vanishing. The ending is the most shocking and uncompromising thing you could imagine. The Hollywood remake (unbelievably, directed by the same man, George Sluizer) is a travesty of epic proportions - and also contains the estimable Jeff Bridges's only truly awful performance. AVOID - and if you get the chance to see the original, don't pass it up. Azeem, in film buff mode in sweaty London, listening to Kate Bush's underrated masterpiece "The Dreaming" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:03:54 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Joan Armatrading (NJC) In a message dated 29/07/99 15:39:51 GMT Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << But maybe some of you more intelligent, music savvy folks can explain to me how someone who is virtually unknown, not mainstream at all, can get onto everyone's list. How do you describe her music? Do you just say that she's got this incredible passion in her voice? a combo of R and B and soul? or does her music defy categorization? Also, I think someone mentioned an older recording of her's, circa 93 or 94. What is the name of that cd? >> Joan Armatrading has been around since the early 70s. She may indeed be "virtually unknown" in North America, but she's very well known over here, having had quite a few hits, including "Love and Affection", which is a genuine classic. One of the difficulties she had must have been categorisation: being a black British Woman in the 70s was to be pretty much unique on the music scene, especially as she wasn't a Soul singer in the normally accepted sense of the term (I'd add that she does sing with great soul and passion, but I'm sure you all appreciate the distinction). I've probably said this before on the list, but the album to start with if you want to discover Joan A is the self-titled set from 1976 (actually her third album), which scientists have discovered to be verifiably perfect! Azeem in London NP: Pooka - "Spinning" ANOTHER of my perennial hobby-horses! I just cannot overstate how completely brilliant this album is. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #332 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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