From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #330 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, July 29 1999 Volume 04 : Number 330 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- OOPS: Free music offer for Joni Fans! [Deb Messling ] RE: Fairport's Chelsea Morning NJC [Guy Brown ] Re: My Top 10 [Jason Long ] Re: My Top 10 (NJC) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: RE: Re: My Top 10 (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: woodstock (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: woodstock (NJC) [Ginamu@aol.com] Small Joni World [Bounced Message ] Re: My top ten list ["Chad Burkhart" ] Re: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (NJC) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: scary movies (NJC) - long ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Down With Unsolicited "recommendations" NJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: OOPS: Free music offer for Joni Fans! Sorry for the lack of the NJC tag in my last post! BTW, case in point about *worthwhile* recommendations is Michael's post about Lauryn Hill. It certainly has inspired me to check her out! Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 16:55:36 -0700 From: Guy Brown Subject: RE: Fairport's Chelsea Morning NJC I have a tape of the BBC David Symonds Session 1968 when the Sandy Denny led Fairport cover both 'Marcie' and 'Night in the City', part of an excellent 20 track collection of Fairport Convention at the BBC called 'A Chronicle of Sorts'. Contact me off list to arrange a tape trade if you are interested. GUY ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:48:53 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: My Top 10 Don Rowe wrote: >- --- Jerry Notaro wrote: >> TreyCozy@aol.com wrote: >> >> > Here are mine.. >> > >> > 1. Brittany Spears >> > 2. Samantha Fox >> > 3. Paula Abdul >> > 4. Stacey Q >> > 5. Mariah Carey >> > 6. Posh >> > 7. Ginger >> > 8. Baby >> > 9. Sporty >> > 10. (tie) Scary and Joni Mitchell >> > >> > Tee hee.. I couldn't resist. >> >I really agree with most of this, but I think I'd have >to go with Debbie Gibson in you #2 slot, and just so I >don't get accused of growing another white lilly, I'll >go ahead and give a two-way nod to Brandy/Monica in >the #4 spot. But where would that leave poor Stacey Q? She really did give her all with that "Two of Hearts" song, and having drained every ounce of creative energy for the sake of that one recording, she hasn't been heard from again. Such a shame, and now you want her achievement to go unrecognized? Oh well, at least maybe the pop history books will get it right. ;) Other than that, the rest of the choices look about right, but who's this Joni Mitchell? Is she new? ;) Jase ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:01:26 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: My Top 10 (NJC) In a message dated 7/28/99 5:30:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mwyarbro@zzapp.org writes: > The most bitter irony--and please take this with a grain of salt, > as I *LOATHE* Whitney--is that this album is by far the best > of her career. That single, "It's Not Right (But It's Okay)," > has some truly imaginative production, with a literally and metaphorically > offbeat marimba pattern and some great dramatic synth chords. > And the vocal performance is emotionally convincing, believe > it or not. > > Of course it's about a two-timing man. Method acting. :-) > > That her horrendous shredding of Dolly Parton's gem is the biggest > single of all time just kills me. Grrrr. Oh, I shudder in disgust at the very thought of what she did to that song. I love Dolly. She sings like an angel, writes lovely, lovely songs and appears so warm and genuine. I couldn't resist an opportunity to praise one of my favorite singer/songwriters. Take care, Gina NP: Wild Things Run Fast ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:08:03 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: RE: Re: My Top 10 (NJC) Of Whitney Houston Mr. Y said: > That her horrendous shredding of Dolly Parton's gem is the biggest > single of all time just kills me. Grrrr. And I heartily concur with: Ooooo, don't get me started on that one! It's like fingernails on a chalk board to me! Linda Ronstadt still gets my vote for best cover of that song (better than Dolly's, imo). Mark in Seattle 'Makes Jenny Lind sound like a mangy alley cat with asthma.' - W. C. Fields ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:12:04 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: My Top 10 BRAVO! So there is at least one unpretentious soul out there! I must say tho that I am surprised you rate Samantha only no 2. Her talents are HUGE! So who the hell is she, anyway?? Mark in Seattle TreyCozy@aol.com wrote: > Here are mine.. > > 1. Brittany Spears > 2. Samantha Fox ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:56:34 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: woodstock (NJC) Kakki wrote: > But at least women do have it so > much better now as far as educational and career opportunities and income > compared to 20-30 years ago. I laughed today remembering my struggling > days - there may have been no gas in the car and nothing but pasta in the > cupboard but I NEVER went without having the latest Joni album ;-) > Yeah, I remember forking over the $6.98 or whatever it was for Hejira. Some things are just neccesities! RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:30:30 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: woodstock (NJC) In a message dated 7/27/99 2:56:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, guitarzan@saber.net writes: > To the offended young people out there, Angela said "too many > teenagers want everything for nothing", not ALL teenagers... > I see responsible young adults frequently, but there is a "grab for > yourself" mood out there (not just involving the young) that seems > larger than it's ever been. I'm jumping into this thread a little late but I wanted to comment on how it makes me sad for all the young people who attended this event and *did not* participate in or approve of, the destruction and violence. The majority attended the Woodstock event for the music and the rock festival experience. It's too bad that the violent acts that took place there will forever be associated with their generation. Though I doubt there is anything significantly historical about such events any more. I do see permissive parenting as a significant contributor. It's a relief to see people in their late 20s and 30s bringing up young children with firmer limits and greater expectations for pro-social behavior. One case in point are some friends of ours who have retained the permissive values of their college days into the parenting of their two kids. The children are allowed to eat as much junk food as they want, at whatever time they choose, to go to bed when they feel like it, to write all over their bedroom walls, to destroy their toys, they are not expected to do any work around the house and they have been sent to a private school where the academic expectations won't "burn them out". In essence a couple of houseguests and rather ungracious ones at that. I see the burning and destruction that took place at this year's Woodstock as one gigantic, collective temper tantrum. These are just my own observations in my work with families and among my friends, neighbors and acquaintances. There was a time there when children were allowed to do anything they wanted to do but I think the pendulum is swinging with younger parents. These are just my own observations in my work with families and even among my friends, neighbors and acquaintances. I hope the pendulum continues to swing toward firmer parenting. I also see some value to Randy's argument that there is anger toward the economic climate, however, I see the low-wage jobs issue as being much of a reality for poor kids who probably can't afford to attend an event like that (at least not the kids from the families I work with - welfare and working poor kids). These are the kids who are facing true hardships. Their *parents* are the low-wage earners of our society! The single mother who works two part-time jobs - one at McDonald's and the other at the Motel 6, changing beds. Now *they've* got something to be angry about! But spoiled suburban brats? Their behavior at Woodstock has "temper tantrum" written all over it, in my opinion. Take care, Gina NP: Shadows And Light Take care, Gina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:51:12 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Small Joni World From: Ginamu@aol.com Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:31:33 EDT I went to my favorite record store (For The Record in Amherst, Massachusetts) to pick up the only two Joni recordings I didn't have on CD - Wild Things Run Fast and Shadows and Light. When I brought my items up to the clerk, he mentioned how nicely remastered the Shadows and Light CD was. I said something about arguably being the biggest Joni fan in Western Massachusetts and he said something about being willing to argue that *he* was! The subject of the JMDL came up and he told me that he used to su.bscribe to the list but wasn't able to continue due to the large volume of list mail. If he hadn't been working, I'm sure we would have chatted for hours! As it was, we talked for quite a while between customers and exchanged email addresses. Julian seemed so warm and intelligent and friendly but I've largely come to expect no less from Joni's truest fans! Chance encounters with Joni fans are such a treat, aren't they? Warmly, Gina NP: Underneath The Streetlight ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 19:58:03 PDT From: "Chad Burkhart" Subject: Re: My top ten list OK, I have been reading these posts for what seems like forever now and they are all pretty much the same. It is safe to assume that most of us would put Joni on top, if not first then certainaly second. I wasn't going to say anything on the issue but I almost fell out of my chair when I read Lou's post about putting Joni's music behind the spice girls even as a joke. And Lou, I am an atheist (sort of) and I love Blue very much but 100 times in a row, the overkill might turn me off an otherwise good listen. :-) Cheers,Yours always, Chadly From Mountains ICQ = 41775889 Go where you will go to Know that I will know you Someday I may know you very well ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:39:53 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (NJC) In a message dated 7/27/99 11:24:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mwyarbro@zzapp.org writes: > Helen M. Adcock wrote: > > << Indigo Girls mentioned anywhere?>>> > > Melissa: #49 > IG: #79 > > <<>> > > #24 Where was Suzanne Vega? That omission annoyed me, though no one has mentioned a thing about it on the SV list I belong to. As many people have already said, the whole idea of ranking artists this way is irksome. Catching up on lots of mail from my 3 lists (Actually, the Peter Gabriel list is easy: it consists of about 1 post per day, sometimes none). Gina NP: disk #2 of Shadows and Light ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:46:03 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: scary movies (NJC) - long Colin wrote re: The Shining >yes-the book was far better too. I do ghate it when they change books for the >screen! Thought you might be interested in Stephen King's opinion on "The Shining" movie. Be warned, this is pretty long (I've obviously got too much time on my hands)! KING: 'Stanley Kubrick's version of "The Shining" is a lot tougher for me to evaluate (ME: in comparison to his other books made into films), because I'm still profoundly ambivalent about the whole thing. I'd admired Kubrick for a long time and had great expectations for the project, but I was deeply disappointed in the end result. Parts of the film are chilling, charged with a relentlessly claustrophobic terror, but others fall flat. I think there are two basic problems with the movie. First, Kubrick is (ME: was!) a very cold man - pragmatic and rational - and he had great difficulty in conceiving, even academically, of a supernatural world. He used to make transatlantic calls to me from England at odd hours of the day and night, and I remember once he rang up and asked, "Do you believe in God?" I thought a minute and said, "Yeah, I think so." Kubrick replied, "No, I don't think there is a God," and hung up. Not that religion has to be involved in horror, but a visceral skeptic such as Kubrick just couldn't grasp the sheer inhuman evil of the Overlook Hotel. So he looked, instead, for evil in the characters and made the film into a domestic tragedy with only vaguely supernatural overtones. That was the basic flaw: because he couldn't believe, he couldn't make the movie believable to others. The second problem was in characterization and casting. Jack Nicholson, though a fine actor, was all wrong for the part. His last big role had been in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest", and between that and his manic grin, the audience automatically identified him as a loony from the first scene. But the book is about Jack Torrance's gradual "descent" into madness through the malign influence of the Overlook, which is like a huge storage battery charged with an evil powerful enough to corrupt all those who come in contact with it. If the guy is nuts to begin with, then the entire tragedy of his downfall is wasted. For that reason, the film has no center and no heart, despite its brilliantly unnerving camera angles and dazzling use of the Steadicam. What's basically wrong with Kubrick's version of "The Shining" is that it's a film by a man who thinks too much and feels too little; and that's why, for all its virtuoso effects, it never gets you by the throat and hangs on the way real horror should. I'd like to remake "The Shining" someday, maybe even direct it myself if anybody will give me enough rope to hang myself with.' I assume everyone knows about Stephen King's accident? He was hit by a car while crossing the street, and apparently will be hospitalised for months. Let's hope he recovers quickly - I'm still waiting for the next book in the "Dark Tower" series! Personally I liked the Kubrick's version of "The Shining" - I just told myself it was a different story! And other people I've asked like it, provided they haven't read the book! Helen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:58:48 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Down With Unsolicited "recommendations" NJC Let's banish companies advertising on our little List! Protect freedom of expression and exclusion of commercialism. - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** Tolerance, tolerance, tol... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:14:53 EDT From: WirlyPearl@aol.com Subject: Joni in Entertainment Weekly Hi Guys, "JONI SIGHTING IN ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY!!" That's what what my husband Steve yelled down the stairs after he took the latest copy with him from the kitchen table. He managed to get to it before I did. "Hey, she's got really great legs." That's the next thing he said. There's a wonderful small black and white photo of a young Joni, all smiles and long hair, seated and playing guitar in a short skirt. And her legs do look great. Under the heading of "BEHIND THE MUSES" it says: VH1 counts down the 100 Greatest Women of Rock & Roll and causes KEN TUCKER to wonder who the heck drummed up this wacko list! That pretty much sums up what he thinks about it. He questions how the list was compiled. "A voice-over informs us that "VH1 asked the world's most influential women" for their choices. Hmmm- world's most influential. Madeleine Albright? Toni Morrison? Martha Stewart? Who these women were VH1 never bothers to enumerate. One thing's for sure: the net would have done a lot better if it had hired some female rock critics to provide on air insight and perspective.....There's a lot of "Move over boys---the girls are here!" rhetoric but little substantial discussion of specific obstacles overcome, sexism confronted, sisterhood achieved." He goes on to say: So who's No. 1 The network doesn't want me to spoil the surprise, but I'll venture my endorsement of it as an unassailably logical, well-deserved, kinda surprising (i.e. she ain't white) choice. (I can't agree here, I could never see what's so great about Aretha). On the other hand, No 3 ( who shall also go nameless, is someone I consider possibly the most overrated performer, female or male, in the history of rock. (Amen to that..I personally can't stand Janis Joplin even though she used my name - Pearl. I don't under- stand her appeal at all). Now for the IMPORTANT JONI PART...THE LAST PARAGRAPH OF THE ARTICLE, QUOTED FROM KEN TUCKER... "Oh, and this: JONI MITCHELL (No. 5) should have been rated higher, and it's maddening that with five hours to fill, the producers couldn't have shown us the full performance snippeted here of a radiant, steel-guitar strumming Mitchell performing "California" from 1971's Blue. (And where is this clip from: We're never told." ) Mitchell's sly-fox intelligence and transported bliss catch everything distinctive about women making rock & roll that this well intentioned but bloated production cannot." Rating: C+ Well, it seems that Ken is a big Joni fan. I was impressed with his commentary of her. (Just wished he remembered that "California" was played on a dulcimer. Maybe that's what he meant by steel guitar.) Just thought I'd let you know about the article. I've seen a couple of the shows. I like that I'm seeing a few performers that I'm not familiar with and would like to learn more about, but, as was discussed before, I don't think it's possible to rank them. So much of it is like comparing apples, oranges and peaches. If you go to www.ew.com I think you can find the rest of the article. I was just checking it out to see if it was there and discovered an ON-LINE-ONLY INTERVIEW WITH JONI and Chris Willman, dated May 28th, 1999. There's also a photo of her that I've never seen before. Check it out. (Was this on the Wally's homepage?) It looks interesting. I'm going back there now. Looking forward to Labor Day Jonifest! Pearl ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #330 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?