From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #327 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, July 27 1999 Volume 04 : Number 327 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- VLJC - Midnight in the Garden... [Janene Otten ] "Just Like My Dad" -- a parody [Don Rowe ] Re: Vincent Van Gogh NJC-Depressed [PJT ] Re: Vincent Van Gogh NJC-Depressed [catman ] Today in Joni History - July 28 [Today in Joni History ] Re: woodstock [Randy Remote ] Re: woodstock NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: Vincent Van Gogh NJC-Depressed [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: woodstock NJC [Mark Domyancich ] NJC What's MP3 ["Tube" ] Re: woodstock NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: woodstock NJC [Don Rowe ] Love NJC ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Love NJC [Don Rowe ] Re: woodstock (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: The "REAL" Top 10 ... [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Fairport's Chelsea Morning NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: The Secret Of Life - NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: woodstock NJC [catman ] Re: Woodstock 99 [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Vincent Van Gogh NJC-Depressed [catman ] Re: woodstock [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: woodstock (NJC) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Love NJC [catman ] Re: The "REAL" Top 10 ... [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: woodstock [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: The "REAL" Top 10 ... [catman ] Let me introduce myself... ["Seth Garrison" ] Re: Let me introduce myself... [Mark Domyancich ] Scary Movies (NJC) ["John Low" ] Plug Of The Week #29 ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Re: The Secret Of Life NJC [Martin Giles ] Joni on Radio 4 [Martin Giles ] Re: Let me introduce myself... [RMuRocks@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:47:28 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: VLJC - Midnight in the Garden... Clint Eastwood & Joni on a song together?!?! Not a crazy idea but I got a chuckle. Just picturing Clint in the studio cracks me up. I know he's not Dirty Harry or Josie Wales in reality but I can's help but picture him in a cowboy hat with that cigar butt in his mouth. His daughter would probably sound nice with Joni. Anyway, point is, I just bought Midnight In The Garden Of Good And Evil from Blockbuster (pre-viewed for $4.99!) and I think I liked it but it was a bit drawn out. I think the screenplay was lacking some magic. The cast was outstanding. Too bad they didn't have much of a story to work with. Kevin Spacey is my dream date. Like, if I played that board game and I opened the little door, Kevin Spacey would be standing there. I've seen all of his movies and just saw him in The Iceman Cometh on Broadway. Dead center, orchestra seats. It was pure bliss. Maybe he should sing with Joni! =) Anyway, my favorite scary scene is in Salem's Lot when the main "kid" character is lying in his bed and his best friend who was turned into a bloodsucker comes floating over to his window which just happens to be directly in front of his bed. Then he starts scratching at the window. Man, that was freaky. That and Linda Blair spewing green vomit at two priests. Nuts... `nuf said, Janene np: D Generation: Through the Darkness ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:00:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: "Just Like My Dad" -- a parody JUST LIKE MY DAD I'm growin' older all of the time Just like my Dad Looking at the kids As I start to crab I used to play music loud as nuclear war Beatles, Stones and Who and Floyd While he shouted from downstairs How my hearing would be destroyed Hip-hoppers sampling all my bards Gangstas are banging in the yards Youthful music'll make you crazy When you're not on the target Age sets you apart I went looking for a song A catchy hook to sing along Or any melody to hum I only found distortion And pounding trash-can drums (All the singers wailing) Teen-aged kittens on the make Groups of guys with shaved chest hair Goths with their death-faced pallor And those wide, wide open stares They got together in '99 For a modern Woodstock concert time And the fires burned like crazy If you can't afford the nachos Don't stand in the line What are you going to do now You've got nothing new To listen to ... Well I've got DVD and MP3 I've got this cool PC And a paycheck bigger than fifty of theirs Why won't anybody sing for me? So I'll settle down into the gilded past With Joni and JT and Frank Dreaming of the pleasure I'm going to have Watching your next record tank (My young darlings) Hip-hoppers sampling all my bards Gangstas are banging in the yards Youthful music'll make you crazy When you're not on the target Age sets you apart I can't find my good music Just one old fart Oh sour grapes My age has set me apart _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:02:03 -0700 (PDT) From: PJT Subject: Re: Vincent Van Gogh NJC-Depressed I do not find Tracy at all depressing. She has an incredible social conscience and there is quite alot of uplifting stuff in there, especially on "New Beginnings". I have never heard Joni be particularly negative to any other musician outside the context of responses to "their" negativity. Pam - --- Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > vincen shot himself because he was depressed because > he spent five straight > days listening to tracy chapman and that alone will > cause the most happiest > of individuals to move to suicidal depression. > > didn't joni say tracy had little talent or something > to that regard? seems a > little rough, but at the same time, quite honest. > her sound depresse me as > much as counting crows. yuck. > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:15:18 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Vincent Van Gogh NJC-Depressed Pam-you are not the only one who admires Tracy and does not find her depressing. angry and compassionate yes. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:04:12 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: sweetbreads anyone? (NJC) From: "Helen M. Adcock" Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:32:30 +1200 WallyK wrote: >i've just finished hannibal, the sequel to tomas harris' the silence of the >lambs. i strongly recommend it to fans of the genre. and to those of you w.ho >read it, a word of warning: according to harris i lived/ have lived/ will >live [i don't want to spoil anybody's thrills by disclosing details] exactly >four blocks away from dr. lecter!!! so beware of the company i keep. Just finished this myself - scared the crap out of me! Not many books scare me that easily, but this one was so well written, especially (without giving away any details!) the dinner-party near the end! Helen P.S. Wally - any tell-tale scars on your left hand we should know about? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:23:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - July 28 1966: Today the Saskatoon Star Phoenix publishes a story on Joni called "Rising Folk Singer From Saskatoon Discusses Career." It reads, in part, "Mrs. Anderson, as proud as a mother could be of her daughter's success, gave details of Joni's career, while we thumbed through a scrapbook filled with press notices of her performances in several major North American cities. Critics in Toronto, Detroit, and Calgary (where she first started to sing) had nothing but praise for her ability and originality as a folk performer." Read the entire article and see a picture at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/SaskatoonStar.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:50:51 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: woodstock "Takats, Angela" wrote: > RR wrote: > > << It's totally commercialized. A > small bottle of water costs 4 bucks. After paying who knows how > much to park, getting herded into busses, walked through chain link > fence mazes, etc, etc, the feeling has got to be a bit different. The > original Woodstock was out of control, the fences were down, but > luckily it was peaceful. Woodstock '99 was all about control and > profit. $60 for the pay per view! >> > > Yeah, but I just don't think that that's enough reason to destroy other > people's property. I think too many teenagers want "everything for nothing" > and this mentality means they get the shits when they have to pay or do > something for something in return...I'm not saying the prices for Woodstock > '99 were right, but that's life...we have to pay for things, we have to work > for things. And resorting to violence doesn't help prove any point they may > have had. You're right, you're right. I didn't mean to say the above was a worthwhile reason to destroy, just that it may have helped ferment anger that was already there. In '69, we had Vietnam to unify ourselves against. Last night on PI, Bill Maher said he thought these kids main problem was that they didn't really have any main problem. He said one generation plants the trees, the next gets the shade, and these kids have too much shade. I think there's a grain of truth to that, but it's alot more complex, involving poor parenting, which in part involves our ever accelerating society where a person has to work their fingers to the bone to pay outrageous rents, exorbitant taxes, etc, etc... Our consumer society bombards us with advertising all day long, the people in power (business and government) have no ethics at all...violence is served up on TV all the time....kids are looking at it all with their pitifully short attention spans, realizing that their big carreer prospect is asst manager at McBurger's, IF they get a college degree.... no wonder they look at it and think the whole thing stinks. Violence is not an answer to it, but it is a symptom of a crumbling society. To the offended young people out there, Angela said "too many teenagers want everything for nothing", not ALL teenagers... I see responsible young adults frequently, but there is a "grab for yourself" mood out there (not just involving the young) that seems larger than it's ever been. RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 11:51:08 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: woodstock NJC "Takats, Angela" wrote: > RR wrote: > > << It's totally commercialized. A > small bottle of water costs 4 bucks. After paying who knows how > much to park, getting herded into busses, walked through chain link > fence mazes, etc, etc, the feeling has got to be a bit different. The > original Woodstock was out of control, the fences were down, but > luckily it was peaceful. Woodstock '99 was all about control and > profit. $60 for the pay per view! >> > > Yeah, but I just don't think that that's enough reason to destroy other > people's property. I think too many teenagers want "everything for nothing" > and this mentality means they get the shits when they have to pay or do > something for something in return...I'm not saying the prices for Woodstock > '99 were right, but that's life...we have to pay for things, we have to work > for things. And resorting to violence doesn't help prove any point they may > have had. You're right, you're right. I didn't mean to say the above was a worthwhile reason to destroy, just that it may have helped ferment anger that was already there. In '69, we had Vietnam to unify ourselves against. Last night on PI, Bill Maher said he thought these kids main problem was that they didn't really have any main problem. He said one generation plants the trees, the next gets the shade, and these kids have too much shade. I think there's a grain of truth to that, but it's alot more complex, involving poor parenting, which in part involves our ever accelerating society where a person has to work their fingers to the bone to pay outrageous rents, exorbitant taxes, etc, etc... Our consumer society bombards us with advertising all day long, the people in power (business and government) have no ethics at all...violence is served up on TV all the time....kids are looking at it all with their pitifully short attention spans, realizing that their big carreer prospect is asst manager at McBurger's, IF they get a college degree.... no wonder they look at it and think the whole thing stinks. Violence is not an answer to it, but it is a symptom of a crumbling society. To the offended young people out there, Angela said "too many teenagers want everything for nothing", not ALL teenagers... I see responsible young adults frequently, but there is a "grab for yourself" mood out there (not just involving the young) that seems larger than it's ever been. RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:58:59 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Vincent Van Gogh NJC-Depressed at the end of the day, i hope my honesty will overcome my offenses. my apologies. ss. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 14:06:35 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: woodstock NJC You're lumping every teenager into one group here. These kids who trashed this place are the same ones who listen to Marilyn Manson or Korn or any other thrash band. But to say that our career prospect is to be a manager at McDonalds-what's so wrong with that? I go to a McDonald's often here and there's this one woman who has been working there since I was in kindergarten! If she didn't like working there she would've left a long time ago. Unemployment is supposedly low here in Ilinois but I look all over and very few places are hiring, with the exception of MD's who hire all the time. In many, many cases it is not that these kids who work there have low asperations, but they can't find anywhere else to work. Mark NP-Joni-6/12/76 >kids are looking at it all with their pitifully short attention >spans, realizing that their >big carreer prospect is asst manager at McBurger's, IF they get a >college degree.... no wonder they look at it and think the whole >thing stinks. Violence is not an answer to it, but it is a symptom >of a crumbling society. >To the offended young people out there, Angela said "too many >teenagers want everything for nothing", not ALL teenagers... >I see responsible young adults frequently, but there is a "grab for >yourself" mood out there (not just involving the young) that seems >larger than it's ever been. >RR ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:12:29 +0200 From: "Tube" Subject: NJC What's MP3 I seriously think I've missed something here, maybe cos I'm stuck in Italy, but I seem to be the last person on the Net to know what MP3 is. So what the heck is it?! And how did it creep up on us so quietly and quickly without me knowing about it? Heck I surf the web every night and every time I do I see and hear more about MP3 but what is it? Why wasn't I told? Is it music? Do I need a special player or something? Help guys! Tube ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:15:40 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: woodstock NJC Mark Domyancich wrote: > You're lumping every teenager into one group here. Didn't you even read the last couple sentences? > These kids who > trashed this place are the same ones who listen to Marilyn Manson now you're lumping all Manson fans together > or > Korn or any other thrash band. But to say that our career prospect is > to be a manager at McDonalds-what's so wrong with that? If you don't see any thing wrong with a society that offers what amounts to indentured slavery, while selling out your employment overseas for a quick buck.... wake up and smell the coffee- just don't spill it on you.... > I go to a > McDonald's often here and there's this one woman who has been working > there since I was in kindergarten! If she didn't like working there > she would've left a long time ago. Unemployment is supposedly low > here in Ilinois but I look all over and very few places are hiring, that's because after you've been unemployed for six months, they remove you from the statistics so Clinton or whoever can say what a wonderful job they are doing keeping unemployment down... the increasing homeless tell a different story... > > with the exception of MD's who hire all the time. In many, many cases > it is not that these kids who work there have low asperations, but > they can't find anywhere else to work. That's what I said... > > > Mark > NP-Joni-6/12/76 > > >kids are looking at it all with their pitifully short attention > >spans, realizing that their > >big carreer prospect is asst manager at McBurger's, IF they get a > >college degree.... no wonder they look at it and think the whole > >thing stinks. Violence is not an answer to it, but it is a symptom > >of a crumbling society. > >To the offended young people out there, Angela said "too many > >teenagers want everything for nothing", not ALL teenagers... > >I see responsible young adults frequently, but there is a "grab for > >yourself" mood out there (not just involving the young) that seems > >larger than it's ever been. > >RR > > ____________________________ > | Mark Domyancich | > | Harpua@revealed.net | > | home.revealed.net/Harpua | > |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:24:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: woodstock NJC Sorry, but one thing came immediately to mind when ... - --- Randy Remote wrote: > > wake up and smell the > coffee- just > don't spill it on you.... > Let me show you how your petty aggravations can ... profit you. Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:54:11 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Love NJC Marcel, you said: >Curious question. What is the purpose of an animals life. Of a >flowers >life. >Of an insects life. I know you guys will think Im being facetious >but Im >not. >Ive been watching this thread evolve and its been interesting, >esoteric >but >interesting. The things i mention here dont love and they dont worry >about >legacies. marcel. Don't know how many might have picked this up, but I'm sure it would have run in various newspapers. In the Toronto Star on the weekend, was an article stating that scientists have "proven" that falling in love is at best a chemical cocktail designed to bring men and women together just long enough to produce offspring. Staying together after that, so they say, is more a question of habit than something called "love". They claim that even couples who stay together producing more children don't have the same kind of "love" as they had when first they were smitten with one another. I suppose the purpose of this might be to improve the gene pool by mixing and matching as many different genes as possible (?) Here's the beginning bit of the article: >Love is . . . about 30 months, tops Like addicts, we develop immunity, U.S. >study finds >By John Harlow Special to The Star >LONDON - Forget the traditional Valentine card message; love is not > >forever. In fact, for most people, it lasts no more than 30 months. >After that, according to one of the world's top researchers into the > >nature of romance, couples face the stark choice of breaking up or > >muddling along out of habit. To read the rest, go to: http://www.thestar.com/thestar/back_issues/ED19990725/news/990725NEW01d_FO-LOVE25.html Of course, none of this explains gay love, or couples who are still "in love" with one another years later (there are one or two of those, but maybe they delude themselves!) or anyone who loves without reproducing, or anyone who reproduces without love for that matter. I'm pretty sure my cats don't sit around worrying about any of this, any more than the insect or the flower does. Which reminds me of a corny old joke that goes something like this... As the old man lay dying, his children gathered around to hear his final words. One of the kids leaned in closer and asked him, "Father, what is the meaning of life"? The old fellow struggled, gasping for breath as the tortured words came out: "The... secret... of... life... is..." "Yes, father, tell me!" "The... secret... of... life... is..." And he died. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:04:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Love NJC - --- Catherine McKay wrote: >In the Toronto Star on the weekend, was an > article stating that falling in love is at > best a chemical cocktail Perhaps YOU can show me the way to this barandgrill ... if only regular booze was as strong as this chemical cocktail that I've had the pleasure of being drunk on for 13 years now. Think of the money I'd save! Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:38:41 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: woodstock (NJC) Randy wrote: > In '69, we had Vietnam to unify ourselves against. We also were saturated on a daily basis with T.V. images of the violence of that war. I think when you are inundated like that for years, violence and destructive behavior does not seem so cool anymore. > Our consumer society bombards us with advertising all day long, > the people in power (business and government) have no ethics at > all...violence is served up on TV all the time....kids are looking at > it all with their pitifully short attention spans, realizing that their > big carreer prospect is asst manager at McBurger's, IF they get a > college degree.... no wonder they look at it and think the whole > thing stinks. Violence is not an answer to it, but it is a symptom > of a crumbling society. I agree with mush of what you say here, but I've always been wary of the rationale that younger people act up more these days because they are so bitter and disillusioned by meager job prospects despite college educations. That just makes me shake my head. I got out of college right during the mid-70s recession and had to work at minimum wage jobs for two years. About the time I finally began making barely more than the minimum, the late 70's high inflation struck, so in terms of spending power, I was effectively making less than minimum wage and had to moonlight on another job just to pay for food and gas and my college loans. Sure it sucked, it was horrible and depressing and very often quite unfair (females back then were far more affected by lack of opportunities or equitable pay). Did I feel entitled to going out and destroying things or grabbing everything I could off people? Did I feel those with more money owed me something for nothing? No, I just hung on and kept trying and working on getting more education and experience so I could pull myself out of it. It took a number of years but eventually I succeeded. In many ways young people have it much better now as far as opportunities, advancement and income than in the recent past. > I see responsible young adults frequently, but there is a "grab for > yourself" mood out there (not just involving the young) that seems > larger than it's ever been. I see it, too, and think that some of the children are naturally (and unfortunately) following the bad example shown by their parents. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:46:51 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: The "REAL" Top 10 ... In a message dated 7/26/1999 1:19:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: << Okay, I think it's high time somebody put on their "Take that VH1!" hat, and made a real list of the Top Ten Women of Rock ... since I'm feeling particularly flame-retardent today -- here goes mine: 1. Joni Mitchell 2. Stevie Nicks 3. Madonna 4. Carly Simon 5. Bonnie Raitt 6. Janis Joplin 7. Grace Slick 8. Mama Cass 9. Christine McVie 10. Chrissy Hynde Here is mine.... 1. Joni Mitchell (but of course) 2. Annie Lenox 3.Carole King 4. Sandy Denny 5. Janis Joplin 6. Bonnie Raitt 7. Chrissy Hynde 8. Stevie Nicks 9. Carly Simon 10. Annie Haslam These women are to be rocognized! Catgirl >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:00:20 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Fairport's Chelsea Morning NJC In a message dated 7/26/1999 8:43:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philipf@tinet.ie writes: << Catgirl asked: > Catgirl NP- Chelsea Morning performed by the great Judy Dyble...what ever > happen to her??? She guests with Fairport Convention most years at their Cropredy bash. As far as I know these were the Joni tunes which featured in the Fairports repertoire: I Don't Know Where I Stand Chelsea Morning Night In the City Marcie Eastern Rain Both Sides Now Apparently a tape exists of Sandy Denny singing Marcie and Night In The City on a Radio One session in 1968. That's something I'd dearly love to hear. Philip >> I would like to find out how I cna get copies of Judy doing these Joini songs. Anyone know. I have Fairports first album with I don't know where I stand and Chelsea Morning and then Sandy doing Eastern Rain. Anyone know please let me know! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:20:22 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: The Secret Of Life - NJC In a message dated 7/27/1999 9:28:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hessj@ix.netcom.com writes: << Naw, you all have it wrong. The secret of life is cats >> This is to be true. Just look at their life. All they do is PLAY, EAT, and SLEEP, with an occasional poop and pee. What a life. And hey, when I put my music on they listen to that too! Catgirl ps just got lucky kitty number 8...calling him Francie after Francis Dunnery! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:22:07 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: woodstock NJC Although in my teen years we had the constant fear of nuclear destruction(having regular drills and lectures on what to do etc), I think that the world today is much tougher on the younger people. More knowledge is available. The young can see or hear day in and day out that adults are hypocritcal, not superhuman, do not have the answers etc etc. they are shown a materialistic world where one is expected to go out and get regardless of who one steps on in the process. Sex is no longer free and easy at least not like it was in the 60's and 70's. The risk of preganancy has always existed but the risk of death is new at least in the last few decades.(Prior to anitbiotics, people died, many many people, from Syphillis). The world is much more complicated and frightening and this puts much more pressure on the young. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:22:16 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Woodstock 99 In a message dated 7/27/1999 10:09:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Louis.Lynch@wonderware.com writes: << By the time we got to Woodstock, We were a quarter million strong And everywhere the smell was wrong, And people were all naked. And I dreamed that after thirty years People would start to understand About love and peace and respect for land, But I was mistaken We are stardust, we are golden And we've got to get ourselves back to the garden >> very well put ! cat... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:26:35 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Vincent Van Gogh NJC-Depressed I always applaud honesty but i feel that to say someone is 'yuk' or whatever it was you said is not the sort of honesty I mean! We all have opinions but I for one am not qualified to say someone is dreadful or whatever. We all like different things. I try allways to be honest but I draw the line at being mean. I might think someone is an absolute arsehole but I would refrain from saying so either publicly or to their face because it is purely a subjective feeling and not accurate, no matter how much i might dislike them. I will say i think someone is being rude, or dishonest, or is not thinking well or can't back up their argument etc. Anyhow, i like Tracy and it doesn't matter to me that others don't as long as they dopn't insult when expressing their dilike. bw colin Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > at the end of the day, i hope my honesty will overcome my offenses. my > apologies. > ss. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:48:22 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: woodstock NJC >Although in my teen years we had the constant fear of nuclear >destruction(having >regular drills and lectures on what to do etc), I think that the world >today is >much tougher on the younger people. More knowledge is available. The young >can see >or hear day in and day out that adults are hypocritcal, not superhuman, do not >have the answers etc etc. >they are shown a materialistic world where one is expected to go out and get >regardless of who one steps on in the process. Sex is no longer free and >easy at >least not like it was in the 60's and 70's. The risk of preganancy has always >existed but the risk of death is new at least in the last few >decades.(Prior to >anitbiotics, people died, many many people, from Syphillis). The world is much >more complicated and frightening and this puts much more pressure on the >young. There is education ..... the pursuit of knowledge .... but where does one get taught how to deal with pressure? I don't remember ever being taught this either at home or in school and, believe me, I've had my share of pressure! I, too, think there is alot of pressure on the young these days. There should be some education in how to deal with pressure. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:44:23 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: woodstock In a message dated 7/27/1999 2:56:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, guitarzan@saber.net writes: << You're right, you're right. I didn't mean to say the above was a worthwhile reason to destroy, just that it may have helped ferment anger that was already there. In '69, we had Vietnam to unify ourselves against. Last night on PI, Bill Maher said he thought these kids main problem was that they didn't really have any main problem. He said one generation plants the trees, the next gets the shade, and these kids have too much shade. I think there's a grain of truth to that, but it's alot more complex, involving poor parenting, which in part involves our ever accelerating society where a person has to work their fingers to the bone to pay outrageous rents, exorbitant taxes, etc, etc... Our consumer society bombards us with advertising all day long, the people in power (business and government) have no ethics at all...violence is served up on TV all the time....kids are looking at it all with their pitifully short attention spans, realizing that their big carreer prospect is asst manager at McBurger's, IF they get a college degree.... no wonder they look at it and think the whole thing stinks. Violence is not an answer to it, but it is a symptom of a crumbling society. To the offended young people out there, Angela said "too many teenagers want everything for nothing", not ALL teenagers... I see responsible young adults frequently, but there is a "grab for yourself" mood out there (not just involving the young) that seems larger than it's ever been. RR This was so well put and yes I did hear the Bill Maher show while sitting at my PC and I tended to agree with him there too...the whole seed tree shade thing. Unfotunatly there are so many screwed up parents who then raise screwed up kids. I wish they would teach basic parenting in schools so little Johnny learns that when Daddy beats Mommy up it is unaceptable behavior. Kids learn what they live! Cat..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 18:00:11 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: woodstock (NJC) In a message dated 7/27/1999 4:07:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << Sure it sucked, it was horrible and depressing and very often quite unfair (females back then were far more affected by lack of opportunities or equitable pay). Did I feel entitled to going out and destroying things or grabbing everything I could off people? Did I feel those with more money owed me something for nothing? No, I just hung on and kept trying and working on getting more education and experience so I could pull myself out of it. It took a number of years but eventually I succeeded. In many ways young people have it much better now as far as opportunities, advancement and income than in the recent past. >> Unfortunalty bad parents who then parent bad kids do not know any better. I love my sister dearly but she is a bad parent. Telling her would cause our relationship to end so I say nothing. But if you want to have good kids you HAVE to work on being a parent. Sure she did not know how to raise kids but you would think some basic ideas would sink into peoples heads. My sister even gets high with her kids and they are now 19 and 22. I have no idea how long they have been doing this but I think it is very wrong. There are other things that she has does which leads to beleive this other then that but I don't want to get into it. Some people feel that what they can't have they will just take. When kids see there parents getting away with stealing, speeding, doing drugs, etc. it is only natural for them to want to do it too! I wish that schools would have a course on parenting and you could not graduate until you learn the fundamentals of parenting. Some poeple don't know what unaceptable behavior is. Catgirl jumping off of soapbox ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:04:48 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Love NJC Well i have been with john for 18 years. I love him more now than i did when we first met. Even though that heady feeling of the first few months has more or less gone, he still manages to make my stomach flip and myu knees wobble occasionally. Sometimes, like when i go to pick him from the station, and i first catch sight of him in his suit and his half glasses, my stomach clenches in that excited way. The thought of him suffering in any way fills me with such a deep pain i know I would not be able to bear it. I'd rather suffer myself than let him. Tho of course i won't have say in that but that is how I feel. I don't feel that way towards anyone else. As for sex well that isn't like it was when i was younger or how I imagine it now when i see someone that makes my groin tingle. And for that i am glad. It isn;t about self gratifictaion or lust. No it is.. well actually I don't know i can put it into words. all I know is that is the most amazing feeling making love with someone one has loved for so long. The object is not the orgasm and even thought that happens it feels far far different from what it used to. It's sort of like communion with eacthother-a letting go and joining, a cessation of individual ego and just being as one. Are we still togethr out of habit? I don't think so. there have been far too many diffciluties for us both to surmount, some of them really painful, for either of us to have stuck it thru because of a habit. The love John has given me is something indescribable. I have never ever known anything like it. I could not imagine living without it. I am not sure I would want to. I think I have been extremely fortunate. I missed out on the love stuff growing up and whilst john could not, and I have not expected him too, fix that, what he has given me is far greater than the pain of that distant past now. No matter how bad things have been, and they have been terrible at times, we have always managed to stick with it because we have seen the problems have not been bewteen us but outside shit from our own past experiences and the daily infringements upon us. Living as a male/male couple is not easy. Society conspires against it. Everything is more difficlut. Ill health presents a big problem with vistation rights etc etc. John's professional career has always been a huge problem with us because of it's nature and him not being able to be himslef there. In so many ways life would have been much easier for us both if we had stayed single. However, I wouldn't exchange this for anything. I have never met anybody who could hold a candle to john. I have never had a hero or anyone i hold in high esteem but John. Even tho i know he is is just as human as everyone else(you should hear the fights we have!!!), he just fills me with awe really with just the way he is. he exudes a gentleness and a comapssion that just makes one feel at ease. Most people upon meeting him and spending time in his company come away with the same comment 'he just makes you feel so comfortable'. i know him well and know what he goes thru which is why I admire him so much. i am not at all like him and until i met him, i have never met anyone, before or since, that i would most like to be like if I wasn't myself. I truly am blessed to have this life with him, to share it. I know the God of my understanding made just the right arrangement for us both. we have both grown enormously thru this commumion and thus have been better able to share with others and be there for others. real love enables growth -it never downsizes! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 18:04:39 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: The "REAL" Top 10 ... In a message dated 7/27/1999 4:52:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CaTGirl627@aol.com writes: I need to get rid of Stevie and put in Joan Armatrading. She IMHO is much more tlaented then Stevie. Also, I do love Billie Holiday. She was an oversight so she goes in and Carly goes out Catgirl...ducking from the slings and arrows from all the Stevie and Carly Simon fans here Here is mine.... 1. Joni Mitchell (but of course) 2. Annie Lenox 3.Carole King 4. Sandy Denny 5. Janis Joplin 6. Bonnie Raitt 7. Chrissy Hynde 8. Joan Armatrading 9. Billy Holiday 10. Annie Haslam These women are to be rocognized! Catgirl >> >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 18:06:46 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: woodstock sorry for not putting in NJC! Catgirl running away and hiding...YIKES!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 23:07:41 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The "REAL" Top 10 ... Mine: 1. carly 2. Joni. 3. Dar willimas 4. Tracy 5. Janis Ian 6. Carole King 7. Nanci Griffith. 8 Donna Summer 9. Amanda Lear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:30:50 CDT From: "Seth Garrison" Subject: Let me introduce myself... Hello~ My name is Seth Garrison. I'm 17, and from Mississippi. Ok, enough of that, on to Joni... I grew up on Joni Mitchell. My mom has listened to her since her first album was released, and I've listened to her since I was conceived. Although, I only became a die hard fan recently (last year/this year). I'm a bigger fan of her older albums (i.e. Songs of a Seagull-Hejira). Not that I don't respect and admire everything after Hejira, it's just that I don't love it as much as I like the "classic Joni." My favorite album is Blue, followed by For the Roses and Ladies of the Canyon. Why I joined this list?: I'm interested in meeting fellow Joni fans (there aren't too many around here). I'm interested in sharing opinions/ideas/criticisms with people who respect this remarkable musician/songwriter/painter as much as I do. Oh, and as a side note, I'm also a fan of Ani Difranco and Tori Amos. I know, I know... I have a thing for those two sylable names that end in "i." Peace, seth _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:58:41 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Let me introduce myself... Hey Seth! Welcome to the list! You can now consider yourself the youngest male member - I'm just a year older than you, and a Yankee from the North! :-) At 5:30 PM -0500 7/27/99, Seth Garrison wrote: >Hello~ > My name is Seth Garrison. I'm 17, and from Mississippi. Ok, >enough of that, on to Joni... > I grew up on Joni Mitchell. My mom has listened to her since her >first album was released, and I've listened to her since I was >conceived. Although, I only became a die hard fan recently (last >year/this year). I'm a bigger fan of her older albums (i.e. Songs >of a Seagull-Hejira). Not that I don't respect and admire >everything after Hejira, it's just that I don't love it as much as I >like the "classic Joni." My favorite album is Blue, followed by For >the Roses and Ladies of the Canyon. > Why I joined this list?: > I'm interested in meeting fellow Joni fans (there aren't too many >around here). I'm interested in sharing opinions/ideas/criticisms >with people who respect this remarkable musician/songwriter/painter >as much as I do. > Oh, and as a side note, I'm also a fan of Ani Difranco and Tori >Amos. I know, I know... I have a thing for those two sylable names >that end in "i." > Peace, > seth ____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua | |__________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:01:31 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: Scary Movies (NJC) I'm way behind with my digest reading as usual, but since this thread seems to have a bit of life left in it still I thought I'd drop my couple of cents worth in. It reminded me of my worst cinematic experience as a child - being taken screaming from the theatre by my mother during a showing of "The Wizard of OZ". That witch scared the you-know-what out of me!! I still go into a cold sweat whenever I hear 'Somewhere Over The Rainbow'. Also, it was good to see mention of that great Australian film "Picnic At Hanging Rock". It is a mysterious and beautiful film and 'scary' in a more profound way than your run-of-the-mill horror films. My wife and I may not agree on Joni but we are of one mind on Peter Weir's film. It is THE favourite film in our house! John. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 01:03:13 +0200 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Plug Of The Week #29 Hi there, One of my favorite albums of the early nineties is the self-titled debut by the Sand Rubies. Partly produced by the late David Briggs - it featured a MARVELOUS version ( at the time unreleased ) of Neil Young's "Interstate". Sand Rubies on record is now back with a vengance! ( Sand Rubies, the group, is not, as they just recently disbanded for the second time . . . . . ) . Contingency Records in Minnesota has just put out four albums by the Sand Rubies and their off-spring : Sand Rubies - The Sidewinders Sessions Sand Rubies - Return Of The Living Dead Sand Rubies - Release The Hounds Maryanne - Your First, Your Last, Your Everything "The Sidewinders Sessions" is a 15 track compilation of the albums "Witchdoctor" and "Auntie Ramos' Pool Hall", when the group still called themselves Sidewinders. "Return Of The Living Dead" is the brand new follow-up to 1993's debut album "Sand Rubies". It's the Sand Rubies and what they do best: Great melodies and loud guitars! Partly produced by Waddy Wachtel and Mike Campbell of Tom Petty's Heartbreakers, it is very much a return to form! "Release The Hounds" is sort of an archival release of cover versions, recorded between 1986 up to 1991. The stand-out track on the album is "Grey Riders". A song written by Neil Young and never released by him - and Sand Rubies version is produced by David Briggs! As the liner notes say : "Originally Neil said it was OK to record this, but we didn't have time to really work on it - so this is live in the studio". The album also features a great version of Neil's "Rockin' In The Free World". Maryann is David Slutes from Sand Rubies new project. It has more of a power pop feel to it and the album ends with the hilarious "Record Collection" : " I got Elton John and the Ramones, Duran Duran, most of the Stones, the Cult, the Cure, and all of the Clash, there's even an old Crosby Stills & Nash My Close'n'Play is on it's way to it's millionth rotation I hope your compact discs will stay around for that duration You say I'm old I say you're young still I await your defection cuz I see they've now begun to win your affection so make your selection from my record collection I got BOC and BTO, ELP, X and ELO MC5 and the Jackson 5 Jackson Browne and Frampton Comes Alive ". Copies of all these GREAT albums are available from : Contingency Records 7455 France Avenue South #257 Edina, MN 55435 U.S.A. Email : contingency@usinternet.com Website: http://www.contingency.com Great, great music! Take care, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:21:48 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: Re: The Secret Of Life NJC Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: < The secret of life is hugely over-rated. It's not such a big deal. The meaning of life is to get your genes into the next generation.> If you're convinced of Richard Dawkin's arguments as I am, you should look at it this way - life is a gene's way of making more genes. Colin said: In the grand scheme of things, yes. All the more reason to enjoy and marvel at our lives though. The Rev Vince said: I know that you'll never agree with me on this one, but.. Our genes determine all our behaviour and 'morphology'. Love is a characteristic as much as eye colour. But of course our environment acts on us aswell. We are influenced in a million ways during our lives, and we learn things, including love for each other. Way to go nature!! Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:37:37 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: Joni on Radio 4 Thought you might be interested in the BBC's mention of Joni last night on Radio 4's 'Front Row' - a general arts magazine. The reporter, David Hepworth, was presenting an article on the current output of middle aged singer songwriters. he also included Randy Newman, James Taylor and Bob Dylan. his comment on Joni made me laugh though... "Joni Mitchell is 56 this year. her last album, 'Taming The Tiger' touched apon her reunion with the daughter she gave up for adoption back in the early 1960s, and the fact that she suddenly found herself a grandmother. Longtime Joni Mitchell enthusiasts have 30 years experience taking the temperature of her love life through her songs. But even they must have raised an eyebrow at a song called 'Facelift', where she takes HER OWN MOTHER to task for tutting at her love affair with a younger men. I mean after all she introduced us But oh, she regrets that now Shacked up downtown Making love without a license Same old sacred cow. She said, "Did you come home to disgrace us?" I said, "Why is this joy not allowed?" " I wonder how many JMDLers have raised an eyebrow at Joni for this? I get the impression that her mother is terribly conservative and judgmental about Joni's sexuality, and that Joni has been in rebellion since her youth. I love 'In France They Kiss On Main Street' for its youthful exuberance... Downtown with my darling dime store thief In the war of independence Rock n' Roll rang sweet as victory Under neon signs a girl was in bloom And a woman was fading in a suburban room The last referring to herself and her mother respectively I suppose. And... Kisses like bright flags hung on holidays In France they kiss on Main Street Amour Mama not cheap display Oh you naughty, naughty woman Joni. ;) Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:00:30 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Let me introduce myself... Seth steps up and says: << My name is Seth Garrison. I'm 17, and from Mississippi. Ok, enough of that, on to Joni... I grew up on Joni Mitchell. >> Well get off her so she can make another record! :~) Just kidding Seth, welcome to the list, you'll find lots to learn and share as well. And I know for a fact you're not the first from Mississippi...but I know what you mean, there's not a lot of Joni adoration here in South Carolina... Bob, 41 but with the heart of a 17-year old NP : "Smokin' (Try Another)" believe it or not... ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #327 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?