From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #324 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, July 26 1999 Volume 04 : Number 324 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Secret Of Life [catman ] Re: Scary Movies (NJC) [Joseph Palis ] UK Meet [catman ] Re: scary movies (NJC) [Joseph Palis ] Re: Just a trick on ya & 'The Priest' [Deb Messling ] Re: Just a trick on ya & 'The Priest' [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Things mom would never say [NJC] [MDESTE1@aol.com] Refuge of the Roads ["Barnicle, Kathryn" ] Re: Just a trick on ya & 'The Priest' [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Just a trick on ya & 'The Priest' [Ginamu@aol.com] RE: re: Top 10 (NJC) and long [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Stage patter (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Darice and Les (NJC) [michael paz ] The "REAL" Top 10 ... [Don Rowe ] Joni on VH-1 [Randy Remote ] RE: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (VLJC) [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Make Those Old Albums Sound Really Great (SJC) [Don Rowe ] Fw: Barangrill ["Kakki" ] Re: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (VLJC) ["Kakki" ] RE: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (NJC now) [Don Rowe ] WHY?? - Woodstock (NJC) ["Takats, Angela" ] judy, aretha, and VH1 [Jerry Notaro ] Re: WHY?? - Woodstock (NJC) [Don Rowe ] mea culpa [Jerry Notaro ] RE: RE: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (NJC now) [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] RE: RE: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (NJC now) [Don Rowe ] Re: Barangrill ["nadine nixson-revolks" ] Re: judy, NJC [IVPAUL42@aol.com] tanned, rested, & ready njc [michael paz ] Re: Just a trick on ya [Heather Galli ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:22:08 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The Secret Of Life Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > The secret of life is hugely over-rated. It's not such a big deal. The > meaning of life is to get your genes into the next generation. So all those who do not produce children live meaningless lives? > See? > You knew that all along, right? > > >From that perspective a search for *meaning* is very different. The > search for meaning is a philosophical question. Are there any > philosophers in the house, in the house? > -- > All the best, > Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** Tolerance, tolerance, tol... > > np: "Radio Plastic Jennifer" by bryan thomas - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:26:43 +0800 (CST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: Scary Movies (NJC) O yes, that too. PICNIC AT HANGING ROCK used mood music dramatically that at the end, its no longer important what REALLY happened but how that incident led the closure of a school, the death of people, etc. One other film I saw that scared me was CAPE FEAR. On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Steve Dulson wrote: > I have no interest at all in the slasher/gore movies, but it > sounds like Blair Witch is worth seeing. In the early days > of the jmdl (when dinosaurs ruled the earth) I posted about > the scariest movie I'd ever seen - Peter Wier's Picnic At > Hanging Rock, scary because you don't know wwhat happened, > not because of blood and guts. I did not sleep a wink the > night I first saw that. > > > ##########################################################Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com > "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: > http://www.tinkersown.com > "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" > http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ > "The Living Tradition Concert Series" > (Website soon!) > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:33:20 +0100 From: catman Subject: UK Meet The meeet does NOT have to be the Bank Holiday. That is just a suggestion. It would be far better if we could find a date that enables most people who wish to, to attend. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:17:59 +0800 (CST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: scary movies (NJC) I agree. It was a different kind of scary -- what is not seen makes one's imaginations go berserk with scary possibilities. Looking back now, I thought that when I watched it when I was 11 or 12 that I wanted to scare myself too by thinking of scarier things not seen in the film. On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, catman wrote: > On eof the scariest films I remember seeing, when a teen, was Wait Until > Dark, with Audrey Hepburn playing a blind woman stalked by a drug > trafficer. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:05:08 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Just a trick on ya & 'The Priest' Oh yeah! *That* Father!! I honestly never thought of that (did I mention I'm a sinner?) At 10:46 PM 7/25/99 EDT, you wrote: >I always took it to mean he was wearing his usual collar, since priests are >called "Father," it meant he was in "uniform," and not in disguise. > >Paul I > > Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 07:45:03 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Just a trick on ya & 'The Priest' In a message dated 7/26/99 7:05:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, messling@enter.net writes: << Oh yeah! *That* Father!! I honestly never thought of that (did I mention I'm a sinner?) >> I'm interested. Tell me more! ;>) Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:22:01 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Things mom would never say [NJC] - --part1_489dc785.24cdace9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Things A Mom Would Never Say. "How on earth can you see the TV sitting so far back?" "Yeah, I used to skip school a lot, too" "Just leave all the lights on ... it makes the house look more cheery" "Let me smell that shirt -- Yeah, it's good for another week" "Go ahead and keep that stray dog, honey. I'll be glad to feed and walk him every day" "Well, if Timmy's mom says it's OK, that's good enough for me." "The curfew is just a general time to shoot for. It's not like I'm running a prison around here." "I don't have a tissue with me ... just use your sleeve" "Don't bother wearing a jacket - the wind-chill is bound to improve" marcel deste - --part1_489dc785.24cdace9_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from aol.com (rly-yh05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.37]) by air-yh05.mail.aol.com (v60.18) with ESMTP; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:24:03 -0400 Received: from lbmail10.listbot.com (lbmail10.listbot.com [204.71.191.8]) by rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (v60.18) with ESMTP; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 01:23:57 2000 Received: (qmail 8165 invoked by uid 108); 26 Jul 1999 05:23:57 -0000 Date: 26 Jul 1999 05:23:57 -0000 Message-ID: <932966637.11108.qmail@ech> To: List Member Mailing-List: ListBot mailing list contact jokefiles2-help@listbot.com From: "www.JokeFiles.com" Delivered-To: mailing list jokefiles2@listbot.com Subject: A Joke A Day (Monday ... July 26, 1999) www.JokeFiles.com Win a free trip to Maui Maui Sweepstakes <- Click Here _________________________ Please invite friends to join the free joke club by asking them to send an e-mail to LM209@aol.com. _________________________ Things A Mom Would Never Say "How on earth can you see the TV sitting so far back?" "Yeah, I used to skip school a lot, too" "Just leave all the lights on ... it makes the house look more cheery" "Let me smell that shirt -- Yeah, it's good for another week" "Go ahead and keep that stray dog, honey. I'll be glad to feed and walk him every day" "Well, if Timmy's mom says it's OK, that's good enough for me." "The curfew is just a general time to shoot for. It's not like I'm running a prison around here." "I don't have a tissue with me ... just use your sleeve" "Don't bother wearing a jacket - the wind-chill is bound to improve" __________________________ Lose 10 pounds by August 29 ... Practical Programs (Self Help) <- Click Here Friends and family are calling you but the line is busy or they leave a message that you won’t check for hours! What can you do? The solution is Pagoo! <- TAKE A FREE TRIAL NOW The BONUS JOKES for the week of July 25 through July 31 have been added to the sites! www.JokeFiles.com Off-Color Jokes www.JokeFiles.com Clean Jokes www.JokeFiles.com Funny Wavs, Dancing Babies and Fireworks on Waving At You http://members.aol.com/towebright/wavatyou.html A FEW COOL SITES: Disney.com <- click to Magic Dell Home/Home Office Store <- click to a faster PC Dell Small Business Store 17 FREE software programs <- Click Here __________________________ I hope you enjoyed today's joke! Sincerely, Ted "Willie" Wilson ______________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, write to jokefiles2-unsubscribe@listbot.com Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com/ - --part1_489dc785.24cdace9_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:42:51 -0400 From: "Barnicle, Kathryn" Subject: Refuge of the Roads I have a copy of Refuge of the Roads video and I would love to trade this with someone who has the Come in from the Cold video or other Joni stuff. Does any one have the Come in from the Cold video? What exactly is on the video? I found the Refuge video for sale at HMV records in Cambridge, Mass a couple of years ago. I had seen it on the shelf for about two years and finally purchased it for about $19.00. I have viewed it about three times and it seems as if the sound recording is off in a couple of places especially on "Sweet Bird". Email me privately if you are interested! Katie from the Foggy Cape NP: summer traffic outside my window ********************************************************************** The information contained in this communication is confidential and privileged proprietary information intended only for the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Any unauthorized use, distribution, copying or disclosure of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender immediately. It is our policy that e-mails are intended for and should be used for business purposes only. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ENSR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:57:02 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Just a trick on ya & 'The Priest' Deb Messling wrote: > Mark said: > > >I've been wondering if it is really a Roman Catholic priest she is > >talking about here or if the word has another or broader meaning. > >Catholic priests wear a special kind of collar but not (to my > >knowledge) a 'father's tie'. > > I've always assumed, sinner that I am, that the priest was wearing his > father's tie as an *escape* from his clerical collar. He was sitting in > that bar disguising himself as a regular guy, and almost fishing for a > forbidden relationship. My interpretation has always been that the priest's collar was being referred to as his "Father's tie" meaning God the Father. Jerry np: Donna Summer- Con Te Partiro ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:34:43 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: re: Top 10 (NJC) and long <> But: you have to appreciate >their art in the proper context. Dearest Roberto... I think you summed it up it this one little phrase. I, too, cannot stand polls and such. I just don't see the worth in it. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:38:04 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Edinburgh Festival, anyone? (njc) Well, well, David. Now we know where all that talent comes from. For those of you not as enamored with the American Musical theatre, David is a blue blood. His grandfather, Lew Fields, was a great showman of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. He produced many of Richard Rodgers early hits. David's 2 uncles, Joseph and Herbert were librettists of the highest order. Between them they wrote many American musical classics such as Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, Wonderful Town, Flower Drum Song, DuBarry was a Lady, and one I was lucky enough to see with both Ethel Merman, and a few weeks back while in NY for Joni's Jazz, with Bernadette Peters, Annie Get Your Gun. It was, interestingly, the last musical I performed in a few years back. Dorothy, David's mother, was a giant talent in a man's world. Her most famous lyrics were for I Can't Give You Anything But Love, Lovely to Look At, and The Way You Look Tonight, for which she won an Academy Award. Maybe her most famous is On the Sunny Side of the Street, also the name of a great biography of Dorothy written by the other lady of musical theatre, Betty Comden. And Dorothy was the librettist for the very first Broadway show I saw as a young 'un, Sweet Charity. I wish the revue success. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:36:19 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Just a trick on ya & 'The Priest' In a message dated 7/25/99 7:52:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark-n-travis@worldnet.att.net writes: << I've been wondering if it is really a Roman Catholic priest she is talking about here or if the word has another or broader meaning. i read somewhere that joni referred to her mother as "irish protestant". it is possible that the priest was an anglican priest. the other protestant denominations don't use the term 'priest'. another article quoted her speaking of her early years in the church choir and sunday school where the 'priest' spoke about genesis and the story of cain and able. of course at the end of that story, cain is expelled to the land of nod, which is east of eden. the first thing he does there is have relations with his wife. well, joni asked the priest...where did the wife come from? it was only adam, eve, cain, and able, and cain knocked off able, so there was no wife. that question ended her sunday school and choir experience. both sunday school and children's choir are typical anglo gigs. catholics usually don't do those things, especially in the '50s. their mass was still in latin and sunday school was a protestant thing. so my bet is the priest is an anglo priest, who may have been married and wearing a regular tie, which would even have added adultury into the picture. c'est possible. < ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 08:21:26 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: RE: Just a trick on ya The face of Queen Elizabeth II is on all Canadian currency. The penny is made of copper. Brett Proud headed Queen Lizzie? Is this a Canadian coin used to fix a fuse box? - - Clark np: Laura Nyro, the first songs ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:04:40 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Just a trick on ya & 'The Priest' Uh, oh...I think I've finally been smitten by the lyric interpretation bug! This thread is the first of the interpretations of Joni's lyrics that I've found truly fascinating and enlightening, thanks in large part to the contributions of Siresorrow. I've enjoyed everyone's contributions, really. Not that the previous discussions haven't been fascinating, just that this one hit me square in the face. I think because I've never thought much about The Priest, whereas the other interpretation threads have been about songs on my favorite albums such as Hejira and Hissing Of Summer Lawns (Furry Sings The Blues, The Boho Dance, etc.) Siresorrow wrote: > i read somewhere that joni referred to her mother as "irish protestant". it > is possible that the priest was an anglican priest. This latest speculation is one that never occurred to me, but given Joni's history, it does seem to make a lot of sense. >> They did that, except they didn't call it Men in Rock, they just called it a general Rock Artist poll. Soemthing like 6 women appeared among the entire 100 Rock Stars of All Time (Aretha the highest-ranked at 19! 19!!!!). The inclusion of mixed-gender bands like Hole and Abba in the women's poll probably made it more diverse than the general one. *THAT* was the true insult, and the fact that women have to be separated out for deserving artists to get their recognition is an indictment against both the larger obstacles historically facing female artists and the lack of critical respect they still receive. <<>> Though it may not be possible (or desirable) to declare a clear victor, the discussion of their respective merits illuminates our understanding of both, which is EXTREMELY valuable. <<>> You're right, my suggestion was not intellectually rigorous, but it was an honest attempt to think about ways to save the good parts of these kinds of polls (bringing under-recognized artists to light, spurring discussion about their different talents) while eliminating the distateful or impossible parts (establishing a pecking order.) I really don't know if even that has to be done. Why not? Because I doubt anyone truly takes VH1 as the last authority on the relative merits of 100 women. Indeed, the controversy surrounding the list proves that no one takes it as gospel. Rather, they (and we) take it as a jumping-off point to talk about these 100 (mostly) deserving artists and others left off. Frankly, I cannot find objectionable anything that brings the music of Bessie Smith or Big Mama Thornton or Laura Nyro or Laurie Anderson into the homes of Dubuque and Peoria. And, for all its faults, this poll will do just that. <<>> I never knew this. Now I do. New knowledge like this is what I like about these polls and the discussion they start. (BTW, I love both Dinah and Sarah--I just question their relevance to the stated parameters of the poll. But in the words of Ms. Armatrading, "I am open to persuasion.") <<>> Good to know--I didn't before. Not sure if that matters with regard to her rock 'n' roll influence, though. <<>> It would be great if would could create this level of discussion without such a grading, but many people (myself included, I confess) get into horse races. The premise is a little distateful, but it results in more good than bad IMO. - --Michael NP: Bjork, _Telegram_ - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:37:53 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Stage patter (NJC) Mark in Seattle wrote: >Of course stage patter & one-on-one communication off-stage are two >different >things. I recently took a songwriting workshop with Massachusetts s/ser Bob Franke, and he was describing how he came to write a particular song. "Wait a minute" said one of the other participants, "That's not the story you told on stage last night." "Oh," replied Bob, "That was entertainment, this is education." ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 00:02:54 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Darice and Les (NJC) HEY DARICE- Please call me at the office. I need your info to give to my crew. Apologies to the list for using this as a billboard to get someones attention. ThANKS, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:14:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: The "REAL" Top 10 ... Okay, I think it's high time somebody put on their "Take that VH1!" hat, and made a real list of the Top Ten Women of Rock ... since I'm feeling particularly flame-retardent today -- here goes mine: 1. Joni Mitchell 2. Stevie Nicks 3. Madonna 4. Carly Simon 5. Bonnie Raitt 6. Janis Joplin 7. Grace Slick 8. Mama Cass 9. Christine McVie 10. Chrissy Hynde _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:17:20 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Joni on VH-1 VH-1's countdown of the "100 greatest women of Rock & Roll" starts today. The structure is to count from 100 to #1 with 20 women per day. So Joni, who is #5 (cough, sputter, gasp) will be in the segment debuting on Friday. Times are confusing. VH-1 themselves say each new segment will air at 9 PM. My TV guide and RockOnTV say 10PM. I'll update after tonight. Each evening's show will be preceded by all the shows before it, so if you want to see the whole 5 hour thing, they will show it all Friday starting at 5 or 6 PM, Saturday at 1 PM, Sunday at 10AM. All times Eastern. Top 20 20-Grace Slick 19-Etta James 18-Gladys Knight 17-Chaka Khan 16-Supremes 15-Patti Smith 14-Stevie Nicks 13-Ella Fitzgerald 12-Debbie Harry 11-Patsy Cline 10-Carole King 9-Annie Lennox 8-Madonna 7-Chrissie Hynde 6-Billie Holiday 5-Joni Mitchell 4-Bonnie Raitt 3-Janis Jopline 2-Tina Turner 1-Aretha Franklin Other standings (Mon 100-81) includes Liz Phair, Ani DiFranco, and Yoko (Tues 80-61) inc. Big Mama Thornton, Tori Amos, Sarah McLaughlin, Hole (Wed 60-41) inc. Joan Armatrading, Alanis, Sheryl Crow (Thurs 40-21) inc. Heart, R.L.Jones, kd lang, Joan Baez, Emmylou Harris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:56:48 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (VLJC) Don Rowe wrote: <<>> Let me test your asbestos ;-): white 1. Joni Mitchell white 2. Stevie Nicks white 3. Madonna white 4. Carly Simon white 5. Bonnie Raitt white 6. Janis Joplin white 7. Grace Slick white 8. Mama Cass white 9. Christine McVie white 10. Chrissy Hynde Just an observation... (OK, not really *just* an observation.) One's perspective certainly can color one's choices. :-) - --Michael NP: Aaliyah, "Hot Like Fire" - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:05:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Make Those Old Albums Sound Really Great (SJC) Just found a way to make almost any of your old albums sound really great. Here's what you do. Go out to your local used record store, and pick up a copy of "Solitude Solitaire" by Peter Cetera (1986) -- his first solo effort after leaving Chicago. Play a couple of cuts, any of them will do ... then put on, say "Dog Eat Dog", "Chalk Mark" ... or any other Joni album you don't particularly count as your favorite ... and listen is rapt amazement at how great they really are! Works with all genres! Guaranteed or your money back! Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:28:51 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Re: You're The Most! Someone (Leslie?) had written: <<>> The list wasn't of female vocalists, but of women in rock 'n' roll. From what I can tell, all but one (Tina Weymouth of Talking Heads) recorded lead vocal work, but some (like Carole King at #10, Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth) were clearly considered based on much more than their vocal work. In any case, Cline (#11), Washington and James (#19 I think) were all included in the list. I wondered about Judy, too. I'm not sure if I would include her in a rock list, but if Barbra qualifies it seems Judy must. She sure did lead a rock 'n' roll lifestyle. It's a tough call. <<>> She's on the VH1 list. <<>> I would have liked to see her on the list instead of, say, Olivia Newton-John. Phoebe's wonderful. - --Michael NP: Madonna, "Human Nature" - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:27:46 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re:Edinburgh Festival, anyone?(njc) David Lahm wrote:- Subject: Edinburgh Festival, anyone? (njc) <> DAVID LAHM Unfortunately, I'm not able to go to Edinburgh, although I would love to. I would like to make another plug though for a Festival Event. My wonderful mandolin teacher, Alison Stephens will be appearing at Valvona and Crolla throughout the festival in a special adaptation in words and music of "Captain Corelli's Mandolin" which should be good. She will also be appearing with Martin Byatt (guitar) in the duo "Zapateado" Tickets from 0131 226 5257. Maybe you will get a chance to go, David? I've much enjoyed your album by the way. Thanks Jacky NP Sleepless - Kate Rusby ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:39:06 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Re: Top 10 (NJC) First, my apologies for the last NJC post I sent and forgot to correctly label. Mark in Seattle wrote: <<>> Of course you're right about opinions, and I must admit that Billie is an artist whom I've always appreciated more than loved. I like her voice a lot, but I have trouble hearing the depth in her interpretations that I hear in Aretha's. I had the same problem with Frank Sinatra until very recently, though, so there's still hope. :-) <<>> a) That's highly debatable. b) The poll being "Women of Rock" and not "Women Rock Artists," etc. in my mind casts lifestyle within the purview of evaluation. Many of these women's images have wielded at least as much cultural influence as their work. Whether that is good or bad, understanding it is integral to understanding rock 'n' roll and its role in our culture. Always happy to hear you preach the Billie gospel... - --Michael - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:50:17 -0000 From: "Alan Larson" Subject: Re: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (VLJC) I'll bite... but let me qualify my list as being the top ten popular or not so popular singer/songwriters of the feminine persuasion. 1- Joni Mitchell, of course... 2- Bonnie Raitt... wish i could play slide like that 3- Beth Neilson Chapman... check her out...great piano 4- Carole King... goes without saying 5- Sarah MacLachlan... sometimes a bit formula... but some great songs 6- Billie Holiday... dead but never forgotten 7- Joan Armatrading... love her ballads & her rockers 8- Stevie Nicks... sexy, sultry voice 9- Sade... more sexy, more sultry 10- Shawn Colvin... what can I add? Perhaps I broke my own rules... does either Stevie or Sade do any writing? I don't know for sure. Or Billie? Momentarily delurking... alan@isunet.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:48:23 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Fw: Barangrill A listmember, Lori Reason in France, sent this to me privately, in part, because she is unable to post to the list. I thought some of her takes on it as a former waitress were interesting and, with her permission, share it with you. Kakki **************************************************************************** [Barandgrill] was my theme song - sang it constantly when I was a waitress in my small town diner. Kept me sane. Here's my take on it - BARANGRILL Three waitresses all wearing black diamond earrings Talking about zombies and Singapore slings No trouble in their faces, not one anxious voice None of the crazy you get from too much choice The thumb and the satchel or the rented Rolls-Royce (This 'you' could be autobiographical - like the British 'one' referring to oneself, but I think she's also referring to a guy that she's singing this song to 'cuz...) And you think she knows something by the second refill You think she's enlightened as she totals your bill (I think these 'you and your' are written about a guy who wandered into a truck stop and is attracted to one of the waitresses - he thinks she's attracted because he thinks she 'knows something' and then 'she's enlightened' as their eyes meet and she smiles as she pours his coffee and 'totals your bill'.) You say "Show me the way to Barangrill" ( The Barangrill is her life. He says, 'Show me the way...' to the waitress. It's his way of saying he is interested - show me way to your heart, show me yourself, reveal yourself... ) Well some say it's in service they say "Humble Makes Pure" You're hoping it's near Folly 'cause you're headed that way for sure and you just have to laugh 'cause it's all so crazy Ah, her mind's on her boyfriend and eggs over easy (She just told him she has a boyfriend. All she cares about is her job (eggs over easy) - getting tips and keeping the customers happy. Ah, too bad - she wasn't attracted after all - how embarrasing! - pure folly (his next destination, not a town) on his part and he's heading that way for sure, so you just have to laugh it off.) It's just a trick on you, her mirrors and your will (He was 'tricked' by his attraction to her - his will (ego). Waitresses survive by being flirty and aloof - they play along with the customers, but have a life of their own so put up 'mirrors' to hide their private life and not deflate the egos of the many guys who come on to them every day. You smile - she smiles... - - it's a balancing act.) So you ask the truck driver on the way to the till But he's just a slave to Barangrill (He tries to verify why he got it wrong by asking the truck driver, but he's oblivious - it's just another truck stop - there are so many waitresses - who cares - he has no answers. So the guy walks outside and sees...) The guy at the gaspumps he's got a lot of soul He sings Merry Christmas for you just like Nat King Cole And he makes up his own tune right on the spot about Whitewalls and windshields and this job he's got And you want to get moving and you want to stay still But lost in the moment some longing gets filled And you even forget to ask "Hey, Where's Barangrill?" (He's given up, walks out to his car and he sees this very cool gas station 'attendant' (Remember how they used to fill up our gas tank, check the oil and wash the windows?). He is amazed by this guys brilliance, and lost in the moment forgets the girl. When you're fulfilled you stop longing for love.) Lori in France It's amazing what we read into her lyrics. I like my version though. It makes me laugh. What do you think? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:52:04 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (VLJC) Michael wrote regarding Don's choices: > Let me test your asbestos ;-): > > white 1. Joni Mitchell > white 2. Stevie Nicks > white 3. Madonna > white 4. Carly Simon > white 5. Bonnie Raitt > white 6. Janis Joplin > white 7. Grace Slick > white 8. Mama Cass > white 9. Christine McVie > white 10. Chrissy Hynde > > Just an observation... (OK, not really *just* an observation.) O.K., just eliminate Stevie, Madonna and Mama Cass and substitute, Aretha, Tina Turner and Etta James. ;-D And where the hell is Dusty Springfield anyway?! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:19:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (NJC now) > One's perspective certainly can color one's choices. > :-) Had a feeling I was going to get a bit of this. So let me say that color played no part in my selections, consciously or un-. I was trying to objectively look collectively at career longevity, influence, lyric writing (as opposed to vocal/performance chops only) and/ or stylistic innovation. I'll freely admit to some cross-over line blurring, not nearly as much as the VH1 folks though. I mean I agree with a lot of folks that Billie Holliday belongs on a list of "best rock artists" about as much as Picasso belongs on a "best photographers" list. Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner, Diana Ross, Donna Summer, Chakka Khan, Patti LaBelle, -- all great favorites of mine, and mighty contenders in MOST all of the things I was trying to evaluate -- but none qualified on the songwriting criteria. Sorry, just the way I see it. Believe me, in my "Top 10 Performers" list, or my "Top 10 Singers" list, all these ladies are gonna be fighting it out for top billing -- just not this time. So with this by way of an explanation, I will agree with you that one's perspective certainly can color one's opinions. Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 06:27:27 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: WHY?? - Woodstock (NJC) Hey all, All I can say is what the hell is wrong with my generation? I was so disgusted to hear about the vandalism/looting/destruction that occured at Woodstock '99 - what a bunch of little ferals! Now I'm sure the media has beat it up to be much more than it was...but still, seeing pictures of youths breaking up equipment and throwing crates onto bonfires....made me sad. When I think of Woodstock, I think of peace and love and the unifying power that music has on people....why have things changed? have they? Or was did this kind of thing happen at the real Woodstock? Have these images affected any other listers in the same way....I don't know why they upset me, I spose I have a real romantic idea of the festival, and this spoils it's name. Young thoughts From Ange in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:40:20 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: judy, aretha, and VH1 Just a word about the connection. I, too, am a huge Judy fan. And so is Aretha, #1 on the list. Her early years on Columbia were just her and a piano belting out standards. They are masterpieces of Americana. And Aretha just wrote a glowing essay/tribute on Judy and her influences that was published in Judy, the 4 cd box set with book and video. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:42:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: WHY?? - Woodstock (NJC) - --- "Takats, Angela" wrote: > Or was > did this kind of thing happen at the real Woodstock? > Have these images > affected any other listers in the same way....I > don't know why they upset > me, I spose I have a real romantic idea of the > festival, and this spoils > it's name. Well, consider the fact that the 1999 version was held on a US Air Force base -- and you can begin to see the trouble brewing already. If there was anything that spoiled my own romantic visions, it was that as much as the rioting. In answer to your question, no these things didn't happen at the original Woodstock -- though people did plenty of damage to themselves over-dosing on this that and the other. The Rolling Stones concert at Altamont though, ended very violently, even fatally, thanks in part to the brilliant decision to use the Hell's Angels as security -- so it wasn't all "peace and love" back in the 60s. Just my dos pesos ... Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:47:15 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: mea culpa mea maxima culpa Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:00:06 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: RE: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (NJC now) Don Rowe gilded his white lily thusly: <<>> I agree with you that the greatest black female songwriters thus far haven't had the cultural influence necessary for the uppermost echelon of "rock stars" (I'm thinking especially of Joan A. here), but I think outstanding performing innovation and talent can make up for it. Besides, though Aretha is no Dylan or Mitchell, she has written some damn fine songs. But the black female artists who would meet all your criteria are only in the early stages of their careers--Lauryn Hill and Me'Shell NdegeOcello (if she ever becomes more widely known.) There is one name still missing that I'd like to throw out there, though: Nina Simone. Discuss. - --Michael NP: Boyz II Men w/ Chante Moore, "Home Is In My Heart" - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:11:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: RE: The 'REAL' Top 10 ... (NJC now) - --- mwyarbro@zzapp.org wrote: >But the black > female artists > who would meet all your criteria are only in the > early stages > of their careers--Lauryn Hill and Me'Shell > NdegeOcello (if she > ever becomes more widely known.) > I had to leave out quite a few people on the longevity requirement. But I agree, at least as far as Lauryn Hill is concerned, since I must admit having never heard a Me'Shell NdegeOcello song before. > There is one name still missing that I'd like to > throw out there, > though: Nina Simone. Discuss. Wish I could, but I've never heard Nina Simone either. Oh man, they're gonna revoke my jmdl license for sure now that I've let this cat out of the bag ... so where should I begin my voyage of discovery? Don Rowe _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:33:14 -0500 From: "nadine nixson-revolks" Subject: Re: Barangrill Lori, I think it's a pretty good take on the song. That's what's so unique about Joni as a writer, her songs seem so appropriate at so many times in our lives, and we all have a different take on their meanings. None of them are wrong, either, because it's a personal thing. I think it's an offshoot of someone barring their souls in their music. As a songwriter I know how hard that is to do without sounding trite, or God forbid, being boring! I once read where she thinks of her songs as her children. The strange contradiction is that you never want to see your children hurt, but when you let them go out into life you run that risk. Songwriters run that risk also. That's why we have so many, "June, moon, spoon" songs. Joni takes that leap of faith, and allows us to come along for the ride. Phil - -----Original Message----- From: Kakki To: joni@smoe.org Date: Monday, July 26, 1999 3:15 PM Subject: Fw: Barangrill >A listmember, Lori Reason in France, sent this to me privately, in part, >because she is unable to post to the list. I thought some of her takes on it >as a former waitress were interesting and, with her permission, share it >with you. Kakki > >*************************************************************************** * > >[Barandgrill] was my theme song - sang it constantly when >I was a waitress in my small town diner. Kept me sane. Here's my take on >it - > >BARANGRILL > >Three waitresses all wearing black diamond earrings >Talking about zombies and Singapore slings >No trouble in their faces, not one anxious voice >None of the crazy you get from too much choice >The thumb and the satchel or the rented Rolls-Royce > >(This 'you' could be autobiographical - like the British 'one' referring to >oneself, but I think she's also referring to a guy that she's singing this >song >to 'cuz...) > >And you think she knows something by the second refill >You think she's enlightened as she totals your bill > >(I think these 'you and your' are written about a guy who wandered into a >truck >stop and is attracted to one of the waitresses - he thinks she's attracted >because he thinks she 'knows something' and then 'she's enlightened' as >their >eyes meet and she smiles as she pours his coffee and 'totals your bill'.) > >You say "Show me the way to Barangrill" > >( The Barangrill is her life. He says, 'Show me the way...' to the >waitress. >It's his way of saying he is interested - show me way to your heart, show me >yourself, reveal yourself... ) > > >Well some say it's in service they say "Humble Makes Pure" >You're hoping it's near Folly 'cause you're headed that way for sure >and you just have to laugh 'cause it's all so crazy >Ah, her mind's on her boyfriend and eggs over easy > >(She just told him she has a boyfriend. All she cares about is her job (eggs >over easy) - getting tips and keeping the customers happy. Ah, too bad - >she >wasn't attracted after all - how embarrasing! - pure folly (his next >destination, not a town) on his part and he's heading that way for sure, so >you >just have to laugh it off.) > > >It's just a trick on you, her mirrors and your will > >(He was 'tricked' by his attraction to her - his will (ego). Waitresses >survive >by being flirty and aloof - they play along with the customers, but have a >life >of their own so put up 'mirrors' to hide their private life and not deflate >the >egos of the many guys who come on to them every day. You smile - she >smiles... >- it's a balancing act.) > > >So you ask the truck driver on the way to the till >But he's just a slave to Barangrill > >(He tries to verify why he got it wrong by asking the truck driver, but he's >oblivious - it's just another truck stop - there are so many waitresses - >who >cares - he has no answers. So the guy walks outside and sees...) > > >The guy at the gaspumps he's got a lot of soul >He sings Merry Christmas for you just like Nat King Cole >And he makes up his own tune right on the spot about >Whitewalls and windshields and this job he's got >And you want to get moving and you want to stay still >But lost in the moment some longing gets filled >And you even forget to ask "Hey, Where's Barangrill?" > >(He's given up, walks out to his car and he sees this very cool gas station >'attendant' (Remember how they used to fill up our gas tank, check the oil >and >wash the windows?). He is amazed by this guys brilliance, and lost in the >moment forgets the girl. When you're fulfilled you stop longing for love.) > >Lori in France > > It's amazing what we read into her lyrics. I like my version though. It >makes >me laugh. What do you think? > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 17:38:57 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: judy, NJC In a message dated 7/26/99 4:41:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << Just a word about the connection. I, too, am a huge Judy fan. >> Judy ought to talk to her managers about easing her travel plans. She performs here in Jacksonville on December 16, not a bad time to be in Northeast Florida. But she is scheduled to perform in Sacramento, CA, the very next night and in Anchorage, Alaska, the night after that. How's that for a 3-day road trip. Jacksonville to Sacramento to Anchorage. And what will the changes in temperature do to her voice? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 00:30:33 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: tanned, rested, & ready njc Welcome back Bob- Glad you had a good time at the beach. I am leaving on Friday for 10 days with the fam. We are going thru Houston, Austin, and San Antonio (heads up Lori or are you gone yet). Thanks agin for the present and I owe ya one (which I may have something special really shortly). Peace Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:11:47 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: Just a trick on ya >At 1:45 PM -0400 7/24/99, CarltonCT@aol.com wrote: >>Now, Electricity -- there's a toughie. Sue, or anyone else -- care to dive >>in and explain that one? I love that song, and part of it is just how >>mysterious it is. It's a song of longing and connecting and people running >>currents through each other -- but just what do some of these lyrics means? >>Proud headed Queen Lizzie? Is this a Canadian coin used to fix a fuse box? > >It's a copper coin (Canadian, I think) used in place of a fuse once >it blows up. Copper is a good conductor so when people couldn't find >a fuse they used a 'proud head Queen Lizzie.' > >Maybe the chemist Heather can explain the conductor thing better! Yes, copper is a good conductor of electricity. The electrical conductivity of copper is better than most other metals. Electrical conductivity in metals mostly depends upon the smooth, uninterrupted movement of electrons through the molecular lattice structure. Small amounts of impurities can reduce the conductivity very much. That is why pure copper is preferred in many cases. Did you know that in many cars there is approximately 40 lbs of copper in electrical connections alone? Just some trivia ..... and now that I have bored you all to tears and possible screams of terror...... I do not recommend using a penny instead of a fuse. There is a high risk of creating an electrical fire and damaging any appliances and equipment in your house. ("not gonna fix that up too easy") I prefer circuit breakers :-) Speaking of fuses ...... we have some big, bad ass Klipsch speakers at home (4' high and 3' wide). We put a fuse in-line with the speaker wire to prevent the speakers from blowing. This allows me to blast Hejira without worrying about my speakers :-) If the neighbors didn't know anything about Joni's music .... they do now!! In Electricity, I've always loved how Joni expresses the phrase "runs through her circuits like a heart beat" with the guitar beating the rhythm of a heart. Take care, Heather np: NPR ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #324 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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