From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #321 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, July 24 1999 Volume 04 : Number 321 The Laborday JoniFest is happening this fall! For information: send a message to Join the mailing list at: ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Remiss (NJC) [catman ] Re: scary movies (NJC) [catman ] Re: scary movies (NJC) ["Reuben Bell3" ] Refuge Video [Leslie Mixon ] Re: scary movies (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Top Ten [Jerry Notaro ] [none] ["Catherine McKay" ] Scary Movies (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: to end the boom boom pachyderm thread [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: scary movies (NJC) [Heather Galli ] Re: shirley jackson (NJC) ["Seawind" ] Re: shirley jackson (NJC) ["Reuben Bell3" ] LOTC (was "Joni on ebay") ["Brett Code" ] Re: Refuge Video [PJT ] Scheme-O-Things (NJC) [michael paz ] RE: Refuge Video ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Top Ten ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: to end the boom boom pachyderm thread [Scott Price ] Re: to end the boom boom pachyderm thread [Randy Remote ] Re: Top 10 (SJC) [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Re: Top 10 (SJC) [Ginamu@aol.com] RE: Re: Top 10 (NJC) [mwyarbro@zzapp.org] Re: The Black Crow NJC [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Scary Movies (NJC) [catman ] Re: Top Ten [catman ] Re: to end the boom boom pachyderm thread [catman ] RE: Refuge Video [PJT ] Re: Refuge Video ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Fun & Games (NJC) [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Top Ten ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: TT#3 ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Scary Movies (NJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Nice Kitty Kitty (NJC) [Zapuppy@webtv.net (Rick & Penny Gibbons)] Re: Top 10 (SJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Audiophile's Corner ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: Nice Kitty Kitty (NJC) [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: The Black Crow NJC ["Gene Mock" ] Re: to end the boom boom pachyderm thread ["Gene Mock" ] Re: Refuge Video [Valerie ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:17:15 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Remiss (NJC) > and none of us knows what the Grand > Scheme of Things really is. Mark- I think that that conclusion is full of wisdom! Look at all the pain and mischief caused by those that insist they do know the scheme of things and the purpose. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:19:46 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: scary movies (NJC) On eof the scariest films I remember seeing, when a teen, was Wait Until Dark, with Audrey Hepburn playing a blind woman stalked by a drug trafficer. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:43:50 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: scary movies (NJC) YES! "Wait Until Dark" is one of the scariest movies I have ever seen. When Hepburn is stumbling around her apartment smashing light bulbs, I always end up crouching on the edge of my chair and hollering helpful suggestions. Another good one is "Dead of Winter" with Mary Steenburgen and Roddy McDowell. Anyone seen it? Reuben >>> catman 07/23 5:19 AM >>> On eof the scariest films I remember seeing, when a teen, was Wait Until Dark, with Audrey Hepburn playing a blind woman stalked by a drug trafficer. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:17:19 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Refuge Video Can anyone suggest how I might get a copy of the Refuge of the Roads video? I'd be willing to trade one of my Joni photographs for a dubbed copy. Thanks! Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:46:02 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: scary movies (NJC) Reuben Bell3 wrote: > YES! "Wait Until Dark" is one of the scariest movies I have ever seen. When Hepburn is stumbling around her apartment smashing light bulbs, I always end up crouching on the edge of my chair and hollering helpful suggestions. Great movie. But I saw the stage version with Lee Remick which was even more frightening. I was 14 and scared to death!!! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:59:23 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Top Ten Vince Lavieri wrote: > This Top 10, is not of rock and roll? Barbra (who I love) is not a rock and > roller, although I have and enjoy her albums of those attempts. I would include > Barbra at the top of any list of greatest singers, but would have to wonder if > Barbra was a greater singer than Briget Nielsen, Kiri Ti Kawana, Jessye Norman, > Beverly Sills, and other classical and opera singers of this century. So many > genres of music... and so muc talent, we have been blessed. She's better than all of them, except for MAYBE Leontyne Price. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:01:04 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: [none] I keep telling myself I'm going to shut up for a while, until I read something someone else has said that gets me thinking... Sue McNamara sem8@cornell.edu writes: >For the Roses is a symphony -- any random edit would diminish the >whole - >even with You Turn Me On ...IMHO I have to agree with that. in fact, I find this true of many of Joni's albums (with a few possible exceptions.) I have several favourites among the albums and would be really hard-pressed to say what my favourite of all is - a lot of this depends on what mood I might be in or what's going on in my life. There was a whole period where I didn't listen to Joni at all (for that matter, I didn't listen to much music at all - later I discovered I was actually suffering from a low-grade form of depression. Duh.) For the Roses still ranks up there for me as does Hejira and Blue and now Taming the Tiger. I also really enjoyed hearing from people about the physical experience of playing some of these pieces on guitar. To me, it's not just the way something sounds, it's also the way it feels, and the feel of your hand going up and down the neck and the way your body moves with it, and the vibration of the strings is all part of the experience. Long live acoustic anything! I had a discussion the other night with a friend of my husband's about this. My husband is an artist who was working for one of our Toronto newspapers up until 3 years ago when he was laid off and hasn't worked a day since except for the odd freelance job. From time to time, I try to convince my husband he should get training in website design because he could probably make good money at it to subsidize his fine art work, where he may be lucky to get a few hundred bucks a couple of times a year. When I mentioned it to this friend who is also a sometime artist cum actor cum classical guitarist and general nut, he said he really hated all that website stuff because, to him, art is so tactile. I had to admit, I agreed with that. I've always kind of enjoyed art and music as multi-sensory experiences. (Ironically, one of this guy's kids is a website designer!) michael paz says: >I agree with Marian that bad things happen to good people. It must >all be >for a reason (altho I am sure we all wonder what the hell >that could >possibly be), BUT YOU are right about one thing, "you >have people >depending on you" and our community here should be in >that number. and Mark in Seattle wrote: >I have come to the conclusion that even though a loss or devastating >event may have huge repercussions in your life, the reason for that >loss may ultimately have nothing to do with you. After feeling that >the Cosmos have dumped on you big time and that nobody could possibly >understand the pain you are feeling, ,snip> It's interesting how a lot of people blame their lack of faith/belief in a god of some kind on the fact that bad things do happen to good people. My father-in-law was in a concentration camp during WWII and supposedly blamed his loss of faith in his god on the fact that the Nazis and the Holocaust happened. Yet, he continued to believe in some kind of force of nature. I guess it was just his Jewish God that apparently let him down. I'm not convinced that there is any "reason" why a lot of things happen - like bad things to good people, and why bad people don't seem to be punished (although Karma seems like a really good idea to me!). When my mother was dying of cancer, she often asked "why", and at her funeral, much was made of the fact that through her suffering, she found her faith (a. this "finding faith" is a really Catholic thing, as if the faith is all and the person doesn't count, and b. IMO she never lost her faith). People do learn from suffering - such things as, no matter how important it may seem to get to work on time, climb the corporate ladder or choose the right paint colour for the dining room, ultimately this all fades to nothing when compared to the potential loss of one's own life or health, or the suffering and death of a loved one. Too bad it sometimes takes such a jolt to make us remember this, and too bad it all seems so random. Some people don't seem to need a jolt to recognize what's important while others can get a good kick in the ass every day and still not figure it out. When viewed on a cosmic level, there may actually be a pattern there that we just can't see because we're too much in the middle of it. For now, it still seems random. Nonetheless, all my best wishes go out to anyone out there who's suffering. On a lighter note, Mark also says: >I can't figure out why Hollywood would want to do a >remake that would make everything obvious and overblown. This is typical Hollywood. The action/special effects movie is aimed at the lowest common denominator, who apparently dominate movie audiences everywhere. I understand this is meant to be the average adolescent/teenaged male, but perhaps that's an insult to that particular demographic group. Sublety is a thing of the past and imagination is looked down on. If you can't hit 'em with a ton of bricks, maybe they just won't get it. And, >As I recall, the book was also more about what the characters heard >and >felt than what they saw. Hill House itself is a character in >the novel Again, apparently blood and gore sells movies. How else do you explain the popularity of the Bruce Willises and Arnold Schwarzeneggers (although Arnie has a sense of humour too.) One of the stupidest movies i've seen recently has to be ConAir. Was it supposed to be a satire? I'm not sure if I saw the original version of "The Haunting" film and certainly do NOT intend to see the remake, but I did read the book. I agree that, when things are left to the imagination, they can be a lot scarier than having ugly special effects shoved in your face. That's what makes Henry James' "The turn of the screw" so scary. I always thought that, if Stephen King's "The Shining" had been done that way, it would be really scary. When I read that book, I saw it could work on two levels - one, the place is really haunted or two, the guy is going nuts and it's all in his head. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:14:01 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Scary Movies (NJC) I have no interest at all in the slasher/gore movies, but it sounds like Blair Witch is worth seeing. In the early days of the jmdl (when dinosaurs ruled the earth) I posted about the scariest movie I'd ever seen - Peter Wier's Picnic At Hanging Rock, scary because you don't know wwhat happened, not because of blood and guts. I did not sleep a wink the night I first saw that. ########################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" *NEW* website at: http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:35:39 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: to end the boom boom pachyderm thread In a message dated 7/22/1999 8:13:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Siresorrow@aol.com writes: << here is only one way in life to understand such a line in such a context, regardless of what any person, author included, might say: a boom boom pachyderm is and can only be a: schlong dong fat cock elephant dick meat cleaver moose cock etc. etc. etc..... that is all there is to it. if drums are at all involved, they are played by a: cock sure bongo conga swingin dicky drummer. period. it ain't at all any more complicated than that. ss. >> Sorry, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar--Freud. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:17:56 -0500 From: Heather Galli Subject: Re: scary movies (NJC) I agree, Mark. The old version of this movie gave me nightmares when I was young! I'll go see the new version and give my take on it. I'll see if I can rent the old one first. Seeing them back to back might be interesting. Heather > >I remember seeing 'The Haunting' on tv when I was a kid. It scared >the living daylights out of me. This isn't a movie that pushes gore >and special effects in your face. The sounds and camera angles, the >fear projected by the actors, all of this was a catalyst to the >viewer's imagination. It is what is unseen in the original film that >is terrifying. I can't figure out why Hollywood would want to do a >remake that would make everything obvious and overblown. As I recall, >the book was also more about what the characters heard and felt than >what they saw. Hill House itself is a character in the novel and its >appearance and feel is unsettlingly by itself. Subtlety is >practically a lost art in entertainment these days. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:17:01 -0400 From: "Seawind" Subject: Re: shirley jackson (NJC) Jackson is a wonderful writer whose deep interest in all things supernatural is often reflected in her work. One of my favorite books of all time is her tribute to the agoraphobic "black sheep" -- WE HAVE ALWAYS LIVED IN THE CASTLE; it has great potential for film adaptation. I am highly skeptical of this current remake of THE HAUNTING -- it looks to be all special effects. The original's a classic. Remakes, like sequels, usually seem to sink like...like...like a lead,lead,lead ballon. Have you read PRIVATE DEMONS -- it's a bio on Jackson, written by Judy Oppenheimer. It's a rewarding read for any Jackson fans out there. - -----Original Message----- From: Wally Kairuz To: joni@smoe.org Date: Thursday, July 22, 1999 9:53 PM Subject: shirley jackson (NJC) >i'm a shirley jackson fan to the marrow of my bone!!! there's a short story >collection that used to be called the adventures of james harris and that >now is called the lottery [to cash in on her best known work, i'm sure] >that's really worth your reading. some of the stories are scary and some are >very funny, but all of them are quirky and very jacksonian. the julie harris >movie is EXTREMELY good. i bought it from amazon and it's still available. >and as an added bonus, the part of dr. markway is played by BEAUTIFUL, SEXY >richard johnson [sigh sigh sigh]. > >-----Original Message----- >De: Bolvangar@aol.com >Para: joni@smoe.org >Fecha: Jueves 22 de Julio de 1999 19:35 >Asunto: Re: scary movies (NJC) > > >stick with Shirley Jackson's original novel. >--David >> > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:35:53 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Re: shirley jackson (NJC) >>> "Seawind" 07/23 12:17 PM >>> One of my favorite books of all time is her tribute to the agoraphobic "black sheep" -- WE HAVE ALWAYS LIVED IN THE CASTLE; it has great potential for film adaptation.>>> This is one of my top three favorite books of all time. It absolutely chilled me when I first read it in high school, and at the same time is one of the saddest books I have ever read. Highly recommended. I would love to be the one in charge of making the film for this. Joni could do the score. Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:43:58 -0600 From: "Brett Code" Subject: LOTC (was "Joni on ebay") LOTC was my first Joni album. I loved it so much then and love it so much still that I rarely, rarely go a week without listening to it. Morning Morgantown was my first favourite Joni song. Funnily enough, I can remember raving about that song to one of my younger brothers and playing it for him. Since then, he's developed his own musical tastes and is always very happy to tell me how much he dislikes Joni - except for Morning Morgantown which he says is still one of his favs. It's irrational, really. I try to tell him that - he won't listen - to me, or her. The Priest moves me. The image of a woman (I see her older, pensive, kind of a librarian stereotype) with priest at a bar - an anonymous airport lounge. She met him there, only strangers and travellers looking on. He's dressed up (for her) in a borrowed tie, probably choking him a little. He's sweating and he loses his ability to speak (for a priest, real irony), from the discomfort of the clothing, the disguise, the moment, the real humanity of his lust, his love, and of his denial of both of those by virtue of his faith and his inexperience. He knows her - from a prior time - old flame - he's gone off to do missionary work in some hurricane hammered place. She loves the idea of running away with him, of going to his mission. But he's a priest, so. . . no, she wouldn't like it there, he says, now feeling guilty, 'cause that's not the real reason, and they both know it. He asks, tentatively - tie even tighter now (does it feel like his collar?): can they be together here, where no one knows him, no one knows he's a priest (except God - does his throat go dry again?). He still loves her, as he did when "he saw her young" and he is telling her that he still does, now that "he sees her old". She becomes the priest, the confessor, hearing his confessions, his anxieties, his profession of love, his faith- and lust/love-induced contradictions. She has to choose, because she must still love him, too, but she can't choose all of him and can only have him when he comes north, to the cold and the wind ("on the sly" as she later sings in The Boho Dance). And even if she chooses, he doesn't know about his own ability to commit or choose and he aks for more time, more and more - and then he just asks for the moment, his lust spilling over - big questions to be answered later. Trumpets sound - it's good, even great, but the doubts come quickly, the big questions overwhelm the momentary joy. They can't deal with it - a desire to run away, get away. What do they do? Brett ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:46:37 -0400 (EDT) From: PJT Subject: Re: Refuge Video Oh yes, I would like to know as well. Pam - --- Leslie Mixon wrote: > Can anyone suggest how I might get a copy of the > Refuge of the Roads > video? I'd be willing to trade one of my Joni > photographs for a dubbed > copy. > > Thanks! > > Leslie > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:25:52 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Scheme-O-Things (NJC) Mark wrote: "I have come to the conclusion that even though a loss or devastating event may have huge repercussions in your life, the reason for that loss may ultimately have nothing to do with you. After feeling that the Cosmos have dumped on you big time and that nobody could possibly understand the pain you are feeling, eventually you have to come around to the conclusion that you are just one small particle of change orbiting around the sun and none of us knows what the Grand Scheme of Things really is." Mark Phew! That's heavy! That will give me something to think about for awhile. You are incredibly insightful as usual. Have a great weekend. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:23:52 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Refuge Video leslie, have you tried ladyslipper? they used to have a copy or two left. http://www.ladyslipper.org/ wallyK - -----Original Message----- De: Leslie Mixon Para: Joni List Fecha: Viernes 23 de Julio de 1999 08:17 Asunto: Refuge Video >Can anyone suggest how I might get a copy of the Refuge of the Roads >video? I'd be willing to trade one of my Joni photographs for a dubbed >copy. > >Thanks! > >Leslie > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:26:47 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Top Ten jerry, come on!!! greater than birgit nilsson?!?!?! do you know what you're saying? wallyK - -----Original Message----- De: Jerry Notaro Para: Vince Lavieri CC: IVPAUL42@aol.com ; joni@smoe.org Fecha: Viernes 23 de Julio de 1999 09:18 Asunto: Re: Top Ten >Vince Lavieri wrote: > >> This Top 10, is not of rock and roll? Barbra (who I love) is not a rock and >> roller, although I have and enjoy her albums of those attempts. I would include >> Barbra at the top of any list of greatest singers, but would have to wonder if >> Barbra was a greater singer than Briget Nielsen, Kiri Ti Kawana, Jessye Norman, >> Beverly Sills, and other classical and opera singers of this century. So many >> genres of music... and so muc talent, we have been blessed. > >She's better than all of them, except for MAYBE Leontyne Price. > >Jerry > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:37:05 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: to end the boom boom pachyderm thread At 08:09 PM 7/22/99 EDT, Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: >a boom boom pachyderm is and can only be a: >schlong >dong >fat cock >elephant dick >meat cleaver >moose cock >etc. etc. etc..... I thought after Kay Ashley quoted Joni herself that this thread would be settled once and for all. As related by Kay, here is what Joni said: >>"Boom-boom pachyderm" is not a sexual reference -- it refers to a >>loud drum fill played at a turn-around in a blues. *Joni Mitchell never lies.* Scott ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:50:09 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: to end the boom boom pachyderm thread Scott Price wrote: > At 08:09 PM 7/22/99 EDT, Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > >a boom boom pachyderm is and can only be a: > >schlong > >dong > >fat cock > >elephant dick > >meat cleaver > >moose cock > >etc. etc. etc..... > > I thought after Kay Ashley quoted Joni herself that this thread would be > settled once and for all. > > As related by Kay, here is what Joni said: > > >>"Boom-boom pachyderm" is not a sexual reference -- it refers to a > >>loud drum fill played at a turn-around in a blues. > > *Joni Mitchell never lies.* > > Scott Has no one heard of a double or triple entendre??? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:09:29 -0400 From: LOREN CARTER Subject: Scary Movies (NJC) I saw Dead of Winter, and it was a very good one. I think Mary S. is beautiful, and I've enjoyed everything I've seen of her. Simply beautiful smile. But, one of the scariest movies that I've seen is...go back a few years and remember....JAWS. The music told you that fish was coming, you knew it was coming, you knew something bad was going to happen to someone, and that it would be happening soon, but, when it finally did, it was a, jump out of the seat, surprise. The kind of movie that left you with a dry cleaning bill after you messed in or spilled stuff on your pants (not that that ever happened to me ;-D ) Loren...... NP...Sher-err-eee Ba-yay-bee....Frankie Valle and the 4 Seasons >YES! "Wait Until Dark" is one of the scariest movies I have ever seen. >When Hepburn is stumbling around her apartment smashing light bulbs, I >always end up crouching on the edge of my chair and hollering helpful >suggestions. >Another good one is "Dead of Winter" with Mary Steenburgen and >Roddy McDowell. Anyone seen it? >Reuben ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:28:42 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: Re: Top 10 (SJC) Paul wrote: <<>> I'll leave Barbra alone, but Aretha is IMO the best singer of the century, male or female, and in such a towering way that she certainly deserves to top this list. She can do with her voice what most would require a pen to do--change and shape the meaning of a lyric. No one else in the history of recorded music can do this as well as she can, IMO, and the central place of voice in rock 'n' roll justifies her spot atop this chart. As for the inclusion of jazz, country and other not-explicitly rock artists, I have no problem with it if the artists' work either responded to or influenced rock 'n' roll. Billie Holiday's (#6) vocal pathos (not to mention her lifestyle) certainly fits this bill, as do Ella Fitzgerald's (#13) scatting and Mahalia Jackson's (#78--too low) gospel technique. Dinah Washington (#48), Sarah Vaughan (#50) and Lena Horne (#62) are much more iffy and probably should have been omitted. Every country artist included (Patsy Cline, #11; Emmylou Harris, #21; Dolly Parton, #34; Loretta Lynn, #65; Tammy Wynette, #73; and Lucinda Williams, #97) completely deserves her spot. Most were crossover artists and all pushed boundaries of music and gender. In general I think this is a good list. A lot of people I would have expected to be overlooked were included: Bessie Smith, #26; Patti LaBelle, #41; Laura Nyro, #52; Joan Armatrading, #59; Laurie Anderson, #86; Tina Weymouth (bassist for the Talking Heads), #99. Only a few inclusions should have been left off IMO: Sade, #66; Anita Baker, #74; Natalie Cole, #92; and Olivia Newton-John, #95. Bonnie Raitt at #4 and Annie Lennox at #9 strike me a bit too high, and Stevie Nicks at #14 (above Patti Smith!!!) should have been combined with Christine McVie at #63 and chucked into the lower '80s somewhere, but that's just because FM really irritates me (sorry Stevie fans). If I wrote the top 10 (like y'all care): 1. Aretha Franklin 2. Joni Mitchell 3. Carole King 4. Janis Joplin 5. Madonna 6. Patti Smith 7. Billie Holiday 8. Debbie Harry 9. Supremes 10. Ruth Brown The most important ones are clear to me, but even by the end of the top ten I think the calls are too close to make. Maybe they should just do a 100 without ranking except for the top five. But I've rattled on too long already... - --Michael NP: Aretha Franklin, "Holy Moses" - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:17:29 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Top 10 (SJC) In a message dated 7/23/99 2:30:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mwyarbro@zzapp.org writes: > The most important ones are clear to me, but even by the end > of the top ten I think the calls are too close to make. Maybe > they should just do a 100 without ranking except for the top > five. But I've rattled on too long already... > I believe this is a list based on a *poll*. Gina ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:29:27 -0800 From: mwyarbro@zzapp.org Subject: RE: Re: Top 10 (NJC) Gina wrote: <<>> Yes I know--which emphasizes its arbitrariness. A poll of a preselected group of people isn't going to yield any meaningful distinctions between 51 and 52, for example. All the more reason to do away with rankings below the obvious top spots. Or at least disclose vote totals. - --Michael - ----- Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:12:03 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: The Black Crow NJC In a message dated 7/21/1999 7:36:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, codeb@duncanmccachen.com writes: << And I've been watching the crows around my house lately. They're smart, brave, and, when the sun shines on them, bright in their own patent black feathered way. And so it goes, the raged soul taking flight in search of the light. Brett, Glad to see some nice postive press on black crows. I like those birds and you are right they are very smart! Cat.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 23:53:47 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Scary Movies (NJC) Not a scary movie(well not int he trad sense) but has anyone seen Powder? I watched it for the 2nd time the other night. it moves me. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 23:55:07 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Top Ten I wondered that too. Wasn't she the huge blonde once married to Stallone and had the huge boobs bought for her? Wally Kairuz wrote: > jerry, come on!!! greater than birgit nilsson?!?!?! do you know what you're > saying? > wallyK > -----Original Message----- > De: Jerry Notaro > Para: Vince Lavieri > CC: IVPAUL42@aol.com ; joni@smoe.org > Fecha: Viernes 23 de Julio de 1999 09:18 > Asunto: Re: Top Ten > > >Vince Lavieri wrote: > > > >> This Top 10, is not of rock and roll? Barbra (who I love) is not a rock > and > >> roller, although I have and enjoy her albums of those attempts. I would > include > >> Barbra at the top of any list of greatest singers, but would have to > wonder if > >> Barbra was a greater singer than Briget Nielsen, Kiri Ti Kawana, Jessye > Norman, > >> Beverly Sills, and other classical and opera singers of this century. So > many > >> genres of music... and so muc talent, we have been blessed. > > > >She's better than all of them, except for MAYBE Leontyne Price. > > > >Jerry > > > > - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 23:56:27 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: to end the boom boom pachyderm thread > > > *Joni Mitchell never lies.* so it isn't enough she is hugely talented-she is Divine too? Gosh she must have a hard time living up to that! > > > Scott - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 00:04:49 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Top 10 (NJC) mwyarbro@zzapp.org wrote: > Gina wrote: > > <<>> > > Yes I know--which emphasizes its arbitrariness. A poll of a > preselected group of people isn't going to yield any meaningful > distinctions between 51 and 52, for example. All the more reason > to do away with rankings below the obvious top spots. Or at > least disclose vote totals. As it all comes down purely to a personal, sunbjective, opinion, it is pretty meaningless.Why do we always have to reduce evrything to a competition? Surely artists do their thing because they have to do their thing and not becuase they are out to win some competition? Of the singers I like, I wouldn't dream of judging one better than the other. They each do different things for me. When they have reached the end, and review their lives, I am quite sure they will not be saying 'well at least i beat aretha in the polls!'. No, somehow I think they will be wondering if they did their best-the same as the rest of us! > > > --Michael > > ----- > Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html ) > The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere! - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:42:26 -0400 (EDT) From: PJT Subject: RE: Refuge Video Any jmdl'rs out there from Arizona? Pam _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:49:19 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Refuge Video > Oh yes, I would like to know as well. Pam I'll add a 'me too'! to this. Mark in Seattle > > --- Leslie Mixon wrote: > > Can anyone suggest how I might get a copy of the > > Refuge of the Roads > > video? I'd be willing to trade one of my Joni > > photographs for a dubbed > > copy. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Leslie > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:54:32 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Fun & Games (NJC) In a message dated 7/22/1999 11:55:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hessj@ix.netcom.com writes: << I'll be signing off the list shortly before heading for the horsepistol (a hospital stay frightens me lots more than breast cancer and surgery combined!), but both before and afterwards you're going to have to put up with me. Fair warning! Hugz, Janet and Deanna >> Good luck Sweetie! I am sure everything will be fine. I wish your little kitty could be there with you too! I will be thinking of you! Looking forward to your return and all the gabbing! Luv, Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:04:17 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Top Ten > jerry, come on!!! greater than birgit nilsson?!?!?! do you know what you're > saying? > wallyK It's all subjective, isn't it? Personally most opera singers sound totally unnatural to me. I can appreciate the technique, range, vocal quality, discipline, etc. that it requires to sing that way but I would just as soon not have to listen to most of it. I do like the sound of Kathleen Battle's voice but she doesn't really have the classic operatic soprano voice. It's a lighter sounding voice and she doesn't play many leads because of that. Jessye Norman can also be very moving to me. You can't beat Streisand for a ballad belter. I've listened to 'The Second Barbara Streisand Album' on a remastered cd recently (great remastering job, btw) and her version of 'When the Sun Comes Out' is nothing short of orgasmic. When she's at her best she can sing with amazing control and agility and make you believe every word. I don't get that believability from people like Celine & Whitney. I *do* get it from kd lang who just might eclipse Babs if she doesn't fade away into the woodwork. My main fear about kd is that once the novelty of the lesbian as pop star wears off, she won't have an audience outside the gay community and will be left without a label to put her stuff out. kd has an amazing voice & gets better with each album. 'Drag' is proof that she can get her point across without belting. She's learned how to sing subtlely and that's the mark of a truly great singer, imo. (After all, Billie Holiday is one of my heros in the singer category and she was a master of subtle singing - practically invented it, really) Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:19:42 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: TT#3 > *Joni Mitchell never lies.* > > Scott Never say never, Scott. In one of those WMMR interviews on Tape Tree #3 (which I recently acquired thank you so much to Jerry Notaro) Joni admits that she says a lot of things on stage that aren't true. Apparently she had made up quite a few 'facts' about the city of Kenora when she had never actually been there and related them to audiences to introduce the song 'Carnival in Kenora'. Of course stage patter & one-on-one communication off-stage are two different things. I saw Carol Channing in her last tour of 'Hello Dolly' in Seattle. During the curtain call she told the audience she agreed to tour in Dolly one more time 'but only if we play Seattle Washington!' I talked to friends in Denver who saw the same production there and they said Ms. Channing said the exact same thing except it was 'but only if we play Denver, Colorado'. It's all part of the act! Somebody said 'Smokin' was her worst song. I don't know. That London Bridge song has to be the silliest thing she's ever done and the stage patter that goes with it is awfully.....shall we say 'precious'? Mark in Seattle PS: This post is not meant to negate anything that Scott just said or to imply that Joni is a great big liar. I used Scott's post (apologies to Scott whom I have great respect for) to make a few comments about TT#3. I don't know about the 'boom, boom pachyderm' thing and I don't particularly care. Only Joni knows for sure ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:23:30 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Scary Movies (NJC) > Loren...... > > NP...Sher-err-eee Ba-yay-bee....Frankie Valle and the 4 Seasons God, this takes me back to lying in my upper bunk, trying to go sleep while my older brother played the radio and looked at car magazines in the lower bunk. I must have been all of seven or eight years old and already I loved music and remember a lot of those old songs that were popular around the same time as this one. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:31:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Zapuppy@webtv.net (Rick & Penny Gibbons) Subject: Nice Kitty Kitty (NJC) CAT'S DIARY DAY 752 - My captors continue to taunt me with bizarre little dangling objects. They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while I am forced to eat dry cereal. The only thing that keeps me going is the hope of escape, and the mild satisfaction I get from ruining the occasional piece of furniture. Tomorrow I may eat another houseplant. DAY 761 - Today my attempt to kill my captors by weaving around their feet while they were walking almost succeeded, must try this at the top of the stairs. In an attempt to disgust and repulse these vile oppressors, I once again induced myself to vomit on their favorite chair...must try this on their bed. DAY 762 - Slept all day so that I could annoy my captors with sleep-depriving, incessant pleas for food at ungodly hours of the night. DAY 765 - Decapitated a mouse and brought them the headless body, in attempt to make them aware of what I am capable of, and to try to strike fear into their hearts. They only cooed and condescended about what a good little cat I was...hmmm. Not working according to plan. DAY 768 - I am finally aware of how sadistic they are. For no good reason I was chosen for the water torture. This time, however, it included a burning foamy chemical called "shampoo." What sick minds could invent such a liquid? My only consolation is the piece of thumb still stuck between my teeth. DAY 771 - There was some sort of gathering of their accomplices. I was placed in solitary throughout the event. However, I could hear the noise and smell the foul odor of the glass tubes they call "beer." More importantly, I overheard that my confinement was due to *my* power of "allergies." Must learn what this is and how to use it to my advantage. DAY 774 - I am convinced the other captives are flunkies and maybe snitches. The dog is routinely released and seems more than happy to return. He is obviously a half-wit. The bird, on the other hand, has got to be an informant. He has mastered their frightful tongue (something akin to mole speak) and speaks with them regularly. I am certain he reports my every move. Due to his current placement in the metal room, his safety is assured. But I can wait--it's only a matter of time. Have a wonderful weekend all you cat loving JMDLers! And the ones who don't love cats too! Penny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:32:31 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Top 10 (SJC) She can do with her > voice what most would require a pen to do--change and shape the > meaning of a lyric. No one else in the history of recorded music > can do this as well as she can, > IMO, and the central place of voice in rock 'n' roll justifies > her spot atop this chart. Well again it's all a matter of opinion and not to take anything away from Aretha but I think Billie has her beat hands down in terms of communicating a lyric. Billie did it without the vocal power that Aretha has at her command and to me that is a much greater feat. > > As for the inclusion of jazz, country and other not-explicitly > rock artists, I have no problem with it if the artists' work > either responded to or influenced rock 'n' roll. Billie Holiday's > (#6) vocal pathos (not to mention her lifestyle) certainly fits > this bill Maybe the lifestyle fits the stereotypical rock & roll scenario but it's irrelevant to the body of work. And pathos isn't the only thing that Billie brought to singing. If you haven't heard some of her earlier work, I strongly urge you to do so. A lot of it swings and expresses nothing so much as pure joy. On that Billie soapbox again, Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:14:49 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Audiophile's Corner hey audiophiles- On my stereo the bass in "Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire" on "For The Roses" LP sounds muddy. I tried removing the platter mat. I tried it with a record weight. (Rega Planar 3 with the early arm unfortunately, and an Ortofon OM20 cartridge) Does it sound muddy and 1-note like on a better turntable? simon? - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** Tolerance, tolerance, tol... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:16:40 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: RE: Nice Kitty Kitty (NJC) >>Penny, did you write this? It's hilarious! Thank you so much for posting it! Mark in Seattle Unfortunately, nope! My little sister sends me this kind of stuff daily! Wishing all a wonderful weekend was mine and sincere though! Miles of Smiles Penny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:04:08 -0700 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: Re: The Black Crow NJC Crows are my favorite birds. It's a wonder that they can fly if you watch their wingbeats. Unlike Geese or Ducks they never fly in any fix formation or appear ever to be in a rush. When they caw, I always wonder if their talking or laughing at me. Much can be learned from watching Crows. Take Care gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 3:12 PM Subject: Re: The Black Crow NJC > In a message dated 7/21/1999 7:36:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > codeb@duncanmccachen.com writes: > > << And I've been watching the crows around my house lately. They're smart, > brave, and, when the sun shines on them, bright in their own patent black > feathered way. > > And so it goes, the raged soul taking flight in search of the light. > > Brett, > Glad to see some nice postive press on black crows. I like those birds and > you are right they are very smart! > Cat.... > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:05:33 -0700 From: "Gene Mock" Subject: Re: to end the boom boom pachyderm thread We are Joniphiles. We know what she said, but we really know what she meant. Right? later gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: catman To: Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 3:56 PM Subject: Re: to end the boom boom pachyderm thread > > > > > > *Joni Mitchell never lies.* > > so it isn't enough she is hugely talented-she is Divine too? Gosh she must > have a hard time living up to that! > > > > > > > Scott > > > > -- > > CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST > http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html > TANTRA'S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS > http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 01:27:18 -0700 From: Valerie Subject: Re: Refuge Video I have "Refuge of the Roads" on laser disc, and can make dubs. Will trade for Joni stuff, or for reimbursement of costs. Please e-mail me privately if interested. Valerie At 05:49 PM 7/23/99 -0700, you wrote: > >> Oh yes, I would like to know as well. Pam > >I'll add a 'me too'! to this. > >Mark in Seattle >> >> --- Leslie Mixon wrote: >> > Can anyone suggest how I might get a copy of the >> > Refuge of the Roads >> > video? I'd be willing to trade one of my Joni >> > photographs for a dubbed >> > copy. >> > >> > Thanks! >> > >> > Leslie >> > >> > >> >> _________________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #321 ************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?